If you hear the word addiction,
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normally you think of somebody
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that's an alcoholic or on drugs,
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but what about the
person that just can't quit
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texting or
exercises incessantly.
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Stay tuned because
we're gonna be talking
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about hidden
addictions among Christians.
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Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn,
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welcome to "Issues & Answers."
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Today, we are talking
about hidden addictions
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among Christians,
but I want to start off
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with the good news first.
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The Bible says
in John 8:36 that,
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"Therefore if the
son makes you free,
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you are free indeed."
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So not only will
we be identifying
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some of these addictions,
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but we're also gonna talk about
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how you can break free from.
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And joining us today
is a very special guest
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returning again
and that's Carol,
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Cannon Carol, we're so grateful
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that you've comeback. Thank you.
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And you are a
certified Alcohol and Drug
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Addiction Behavior
Specialist Counselor.
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Yes, C.A.D.C. it's
called. Okay, thank you.
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And what does that stand for?
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Certified Alcohol
and Drug Abuse Counselor.
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Drug Abuse Counselor, I
can split that out mostly.
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You're also an author
and you've written two books.
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One is called
"Growing--" "Never Good Enough."
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"Never Good Enough."
"Growing up Imperfect."
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In a perfect family. Correct.
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And the other is called--
"Hooked on Unhappiness."
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"Hooked on Unhappiness."
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Breaking the
Cycle of Discontent.
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That's a wonderful titles,
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great titles.
Thank you, thank you.
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I can't wait to read your books.
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Now you and your
husband for 35 years
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have had a Recovery
Center or Overcoming Center,
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whatever you want
to call it. Recovery.
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A Recovery Center in
Bowling Green Kentucky. Yes.
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You lived right there on
campus on call 24/7. Yes.
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Tell us, the type
of work you did there.
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We set out
initially to help young people
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who were, who were
weird in Christian families
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that prohibited the
use of alcohol and drugs
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and found themselves
jumping that cultural barrier
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and getting into more trouble
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than they would have
probably if they've grown up
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in families that
drank socially. Sure.
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Yeah, they were naive
about what they were doing,
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they didn't
recognize, they didn't know
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the birds and
the bees about booze.
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And so when they began
to use drugs and alcohol,
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even though they
were statistically
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about half as likely to get
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involved with drugs and alcohol.
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They were twice as likely to get
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in trouble once they did.
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And so we saw
these young people,
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this was the early
1970s and saw that they needed
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some, some guidance
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and so we actually started off
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and we just sort of created,
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we move away
from the university,
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that's where my
husband was teaching,
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to move to Central Kentucky.
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And we just sort of created
Uncle Paul and Aunt Carol's
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ranch out there in the country
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where we were
gonna try to love them
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back to health
and good behavior.
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And it was in that
kind of a fiery furnace
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that we learned about addiction.
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We discovered
that these young people
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weren't just violating
the standards they've grown up
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with that they weren't batter
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immoral or
anything of the kind. Yes.
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They just got into,
they got in deep water.
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And so we be, we have
to learn about addiction,
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in fact, we have to discover
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that we had some
pretty distinctive,
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addictive tendencies
of our own. Interesting.
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So we were actually
grateful that that the Lord
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brought us to
that sort of situation,
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so that we could learn
some things about ourselves.
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You know, when you
said that then the idea
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is that addiction is an equal
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opportunity
destroyer. Absolutely.
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Doesn't matter what
your station is in life.
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That's right. How
you've been brought up?
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There are many things
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to which one may
become addicted. That's right.
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Let's talk about
the four main classes
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of addiction, if you will.
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The one that people
know the most about,
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are most
conversant with is alcoholism
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and drug dependence.
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And, of course, that
includes all illegal drugs
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and certain
prescription medication
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can be addictive
and then we don't want
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to overlook
nicotine and caffeine,
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those are the substances.
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But as a general
public we are fairly well
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informed about
those substance issues.
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The other three categories
fall into the category
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into what we
call, clean additions.
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Now that's a miss number
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because they're
not really clean.
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They're no more or, you know,
less harmful. That's right.
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They just don't involve and so,
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really clean addiction
is a lazy way of saying,
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non-chemical dependency. Okay.
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And that includes
three different categories,
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activities and
processes is the first category
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of the three,
the second category
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is interpersonal addictions,
and the third category
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is thought and
feeling additions.
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Okay, well let's
kind of go into those,
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so that people know
what we're talking about
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as you said, when it
comes to drugs and alcohol
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or chemical dependency,
even prescription drugs
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that fall into the category.
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We pretty much understand that,
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we hear about it all the time.
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At least we think we do.
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But now with
processes and activity,
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I assume you're talking about
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somebody that like workaholism.
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Right, Terry Kellogg,
a very well-known expert
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in this field,
speaks of this category
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or this area as any
action for distraction. Okay.
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Now isn't that, there's
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nothing wrong with distracting
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one's self in times
when you're you know,
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weary and worn and
you just want to go
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play a game of
monopoly or something,
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I'm not suggesting that there's
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anything wrong with
that or, but one can became
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so involved and so obsessed
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with something like
shopping, for example. Yes.
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Or electronic activity.
Internet. Texting. Texting.
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We see people who
are becoming literally
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addicted to texting. Yes.
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Kids who raids are falling
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and they're
staying up half the night
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texting their friends.
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Or, or playing their
video games and again,
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none of these things
in the category of clean
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addictions are
intrinsically bad.
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In fact, some of
them are very good.
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So it's not what the
person is doing per se,
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it's not even how
much of what they're doing,
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it's to what
extremes they will go
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and in terms of
losing control over
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what they're doing.
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All right, so now
let's, let's define addiction
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then because you just said,
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it's not
necessarily the quantity-- Yes.
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But it's really
the loss of control,
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so give us a good
definition for addiction.
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The definition I
like the very best
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is one that goes like this.
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Addiction is anything
I make highest priority
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in my life over and
above other priorities,
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doing it to my own
detriment or the detriment
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of the people closest to
me and continuing to do it
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in the face of
obvious negative consequences.
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Okay, so making God
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your top priority
is not an addiction,
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but making perhaps
religion or religious pers--
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You know, I think of
and we religious pursuits,
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I'm hearing more
and more about people
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who are, I guess, you would get
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to call them the
holiness movements
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and people who are so addicted
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to the external
religious practices. Yes.
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And it really has
nothing to do with being
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connected
personally with the Lord.
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If I had to use one word to
describe religious addiction,
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I would say legalism. Okay.
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Or a term that I think
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is original with
me, works-aholism.
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Okay, not workaholics,
but works. Yeah, yeah.
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As in trying to
work your way to heaven.
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Where you, where
you become so obsessed
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that this your
religious disciplines perhaps
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become your sole
source of meaning,
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identity, and value.
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You commune in uni-dimensional,
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it's the only thing
you could talk about,
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it's the only
thing you can interact
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with other people around,
and you become a very narrow
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uni-dimensional kind
of person. Okay, okay.
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Actually I described
the religious addiction
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quite thoroughly
in my first book,
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"Never Good
Enough" going up imperfect
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in a perfect family
and that's a pretty good
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resource for that.
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But there are
suddenly many, many,
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many other process
and activity addictions.
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Workaholism, perfectionism,
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electronic
activity, shopping, spending,
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stealing as in
Kleptomania. Exercise.
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Exercise, and then the
risk taking area, gambling.
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How about pornography,
does that fit into that one?
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Actually, it's part way,
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pornography is
partly in that one,
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but it's also
partly in the interpersonal
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addiction
category as well, yeah.
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So, you know, a good addict,
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a person with a good
addictive personality
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can get addicted to
almost anything. Yes.
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And it's about making it
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so important that you lose your,
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lose touch with reality.
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You know, I think
the defining factors
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because there
are some gray areas
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especially with
these clean addictions.
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I think the
defining factors are that,
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when a person is
engaged in the behavior,
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they lose touch with
their responsibilities,
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their
relationships, and with reality.
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So it's doing something,
you can overdo something
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to a fault when it's
been detrimental to you,
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then you know that
you've, you're in trouble.
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Exactly, or if you
use it to hurt yourself
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and other people
and it's easy to do
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that with religion. Okay.
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So now the third
one was interpersonal
00:10:16.06\00:10:18.29
addictions,
let's talk about those.
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Yeah, I break that down
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into five
subcategories, romance.
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And I know people who just get,
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they get high on being in love,
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falling in love.
They absolutely do.
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And that's, their
brain is actually producing
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a heroin like and
cocaine like substance,
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chemical when a
person is falling in love.
00:10:38.91\00:10:41.20
So for all practical purposes
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when we fall in
love, we're high.
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And we remain high
for several months.
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So you shouldn't marry
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somebody that you have
only known for a few months
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because you're marrying
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somebody when you're
high on a drug. That's right.
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And you choose making a decision
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that will affect you
for the rest of your life
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while you're high
on the drugs, okay.
00:10:57.15\00:10:58.52
Yeah, yeah, so
let me start that list
00:10:58.53\00:11:02.71
of subcategories
again, sex, romance,
00:11:02.72\00:11:05.98
relationships,
rescue and caretaking,
00:11:05.99\00:11:10.19
fixing other people
can be very addictive.
00:11:10.20\00:11:13.69
And finally, simple enmeshment
00:11:13.70\00:11:16.51
within a family or a
extended family system
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in which the various
members of the family
00:11:22.24\00:11:24.33
get so intertwined,
their egos get so intertwined
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with each other,
that they begin to live
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each other's lives.
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So you're talking
about living vicariously,
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for example, say a mother
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who didn't get to do
the beauty queen routine,
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who takes her little
daughter and dresses her up
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and takes her to all
these beauty contests
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and actually begins
forcing the child to do this.
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Because she is
addicted and living vicariously
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through the
child, would that be--
00:11:50.80\00:11:52.23
I think that's an
acceptable example,
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I also think of cases
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in which parents
and their adult children
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are unable to
detach from each other
00:11:57.69\00:12:00.61
and they remain far too
involved even, you know,
00:12:00.62\00:12:06.96
even after the child is married
00:12:06.97\00:12:09.02
and has a family of his own.
00:12:09.03\00:12:10.78
The child who has to
be, has to, you know,
00:12:10.79\00:12:13.29
communicate with the
parents who live in a city
00:12:13.30\00:12:16.83
great distance away
several times a day,
00:12:16.84\00:12:18.94
for example, and be in
touch constantly and you know.
00:12:18.95\00:12:23.42
So just start
living each other's lives
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is the simplest synonym
for phrase to describe that.
00:12:25.54\00:12:31.04
Let's see-- And the thoughts
00:12:31.05\00:12:32.15
and feelings addiction.
00:12:32.16\00:12:33.30
Thought, yeah,
before I go onto thoughts
00:12:33.31\00:12:35.72
and feelings, so let me
give you Anne Wilson Schaef's
00:12:35.73\00:12:39.64
shorthand version of these,
00:12:39.65\00:12:42.01
and I've added a
little bit to it too,
00:12:42.02\00:12:44.00
but sex addicts basically
come onto people. Okay.
00:12:44.01\00:12:50.73
Romance addicts move
on from one relationship
00:12:50.74\00:12:53.71
to the next
because they're addicted
00:12:53.72\00:12:57.05
to the accoutrements of romance,
00:12:57.06\00:12:59.39
the Harlequinness, if
you will of the experience.
00:12:59.40\00:13:03.65
And for our
international audience,
00:13:03.66\00:13:06.80
Harlequin was, I don't know
00:13:06.81\00:13:09.45
if that was international,
but those are romance--
00:13:09.46\00:13:11.86
Romance novels. A
little-- In fact, people could
00:13:11.87\00:13:14.29
even get addicted to the books
00:13:14.30\00:13:15.80
and the reading of those books.
00:13:15.81\00:13:17.56
The relationship addiction
00:13:17.57\00:13:18.91
is where you hang on to somebody
00:13:18.92\00:13:22.13
and kind of expect too
much of the relationship,
00:13:22.14\00:13:28.90
expect them to, to be,
00:13:28.91\00:13:30.77
to be solely
focused on you. Okay.
00:13:30.78\00:13:33.68
And it becomes usually
00:13:33.69\00:13:36.95
a pretty controlling situation.
00:13:36.96\00:13:38.75
The fourth one,
rescuing and fixing
00:13:38.76\00:13:41.00
people is where you
just climb onto people,
00:13:41.01\00:13:43.33
it's kind of like you
collect cripples. Okay.
00:13:43.34\00:13:47.30
And you get one person fixed
00:13:47.31\00:13:48.56
and then you've got
to run fix somebody else,
00:13:48.57\00:13:51.38
and it's yeah. So there, the,
00:13:51.39\00:13:53.58
and then the
fifth one is enmeshment
00:13:53.59\00:13:55.61
which I've already described.
00:13:55.62\00:13:57.68
So those are the various
interpersonal addictions.
00:13:57.69\00:13:59.35
Now, thought
and feeling addition
00:13:59.36\00:14:01.55
is the ones that people probably
00:14:01.56\00:14:04.06
can relate to the best
00:14:04.07\00:14:05.22
are worrying, raging, obsessing,
00:14:05.23\00:14:13.87
and those kinds of things.
00:14:13.88\00:14:15.52
Or even the misery addiction
00:14:15.53\00:14:19.77
and negaholism,
those are thought
00:14:19.78\00:14:23.28
and feeling addictions.
00:14:23.29\00:14:24.33
The people who are hooked
00:14:24.34\00:14:25.31
on being negative,
you know, it's interesting
00:14:25.32\00:14:27.23
because a lot of people
00:14:27.24\00:14:28.58
don't look at
worrying as an addiction,
00:14:28.59\00:14:30.58
but when you look at
your, your definition. Right.
00:14:30.59\00:14:34.30
And they, they're,
it is a choice, I mean,
00:14:34.31\00:14:37.26
some people don't
think they have a choice,
00:14:37.27\00:14:39.03
but there is a
conscious decision
00:14:39.04\00:14:41.12
that you make to worry or not,
00:14:41.13\00:14:43.02
I mean, some people
maybe unconsciously worry,
00:14:43.03\00:14:45.15
but you, you're
still choosing to,
00:14:45.16\00:14:46.92
so you can choose the other way.
00:14:46.93\00:14:49.05
So when you look at these,
00:14:49.06\00:14:50.64
how do you identify
these various, I mean,
00:14:50.65\00:14:57.30
let's say that, I'm a workaholic
00:14:57.31\00:15:00.35
and maybe I don't
recognize or I'm a perfectionist
00:15:00.36\00:15:03.89
and I'm not recognizing
it, perhaps I exercise too much
00:15:03.90\00:15:07.99
and I'm not recognizing it.
00:15:08.00\00:15:10.17
How do I identify
or how do we reach
00:15:10.18\00:15:13.97
someone who is an
addict, to let them know
00:15:13.98\00:15:16.63
you've got a problem?
00:15:16.64\00:15:18.03
Well, typically,
there's a lot of denial
00:15:18.04\00:15:20.95
and delusion associated
with addictive behavior.
00:15:20.96\00:15:24.33
And so the addict is
gonna be the last to know.
00:15:24.34\00:15:28.02
The people closest
to him probably know,
00:15:28.03\00:15:30.89
but sometimes they also fall
into the denial and delusion.
00:15:30.90\00:15:35.28
Unfortunately it's kind
of the nature of addiction
00:15:35.29\00:15:37.82
that you almost
always have to suffer
00:15:37.83\00:15:39.40
some consequences before,
00:15:39.41\00:15:43.21
before you begin
to take a problem
00:15:43.22\00:15:45.80
of an addictive
nature seriously.
00:15:45.81\00:15:49.76
So, but one way if a
person is open to it,
00:15:49.77\00:15:56.31
would be simply to listen
to feedback from other people.
00:15:56.32\00:15:59.36
So when somebody,
like I had a friend
00:15:59.37\00:16:01.91
whose husband began working out
00:16:01.92\00:16:06.01
and at the beginning,
it was innocent enough,
00:16:06.02\00:16:08.71
but pretty soon after work
he had to go spend through,
00:16:08.72\00:16:12.11
two to three hours
in the gym everyday
00:16:12.12\00:16:14.38
and if he missed, he
was, he was frantic about it.
00:16:14.39\00:16:17.81
He was, had no
time with his children
00:16:17.82\00:16:20.11
because by the time he got home,
00:16:20.12\00:16:22.08
they were in bed, she
was feeling neglected,
00:16:22.09\00:16:25.25
abandoned, if you will. Sure.
00:16:25.26\00:16:26.87
So that was
becoming an addiction to him,
00:16:26.88\00:16:31.38
but she really
couldn't talk to him about it.
00:16:31.39\00:16:33.42
How do you reach or intervene
00:16:33.43\00:16:35.58
when someone's in
an addictive pattern?
00:16:35.59\00:16:37.04
Well, often a
person in that situation
00:16:37.05\00:16:38.94
that is the person,
who's the gym fanatic or,
00:16:38.95\00:16:43.14
is pretty defensive. Yes.
00:16:43.15\00:16:44.81
And so you do to me.
And it's good for my health
00:16:44.82\00:16:46.59
and it's good for
my body, etcetera.
00:16:46.60\00:16:48.17
And that's the
problem with the clean
00:16:48.18\00:16:49.95
addictions,
because as I said earlier,
00:16:49.96\00:16:52.02
some of them are
intrinsically good. Yes.
00:16:52.03\00:16:54.38
And so it's very, very
difficult to confront it.
00:16:54.39\00:16:58.28
Sometimes you have to
plan a full scale intervention,
00:16:58.29\00:17:01.14
bring other
people into the process
00:17:01.15\00:17:03.11
in order to override
00:17:03.12\00:17:04.66
the addict's
denial and delusion,
00:17:04.67\00:17:06.62
you might have to gather
00:17:06.63\00:17:08.12
together a group of people,
00:17:08.13\00:17:09.43
get some support
for a professional
00:17:09.44\00:17:10.94
interventionist
and some guidance,
00:17:10.95\00:17:12.59
it can be that
difficult to break
00:17:12.60\00:17:15.77
through to the addict. Amen.
00:17:15.78\00:17:17.65
Now how do you really
put 'cause there maybe
00:17:17.66\00:17:22.34
some woman out there
who's saying right now,
00:17:22.35\00:17:24.86
"My husband's addicted to golf,
00:17:24.87\00:17:26.57
he's got to play
golf every Sunday,
00:17:26.58\00:17:29.12
and it doesn't necessary
mean he's addicted." Right.
00:17:29.13\00:17:32.25
How do you identified
between normal behavior
00:17:32.26\00:17:34.92
and addicted behavior?
00:17:34.93\00:17:36.15
Well, I start of
course with a definition
00:17:36.16\00:17:38.56
that we used earlier
have, has the individual made
00:17:38.57\00:17:41.65
it such a high
priority in his life
00:17:41.66\00:17:43.75
that it's harming
him and other people
00:17:43.76\00:17:46.20
and yet he's continuing to do it
00:17:46.21\00:17:47.86
in the face of
obvious negative consequences,
00:17:47.87\00:17:50.48
that's one criteria.
00:17:50.49\00:17:51.63
The second one
is, is the individual
00:17:51.64\00:17:56.45
using this behavior as
their sole source of meaning,
00:17:56.46\00:18:00.12
identity and value.
00:18:00.13\00:18:02.15
Do they have -- Are they doing
00:18:02.16\00:18:03.75
this to the extent that
they're losing control over
00:18:03.76\00:18:06.64
how much of it
that they do or once
00:18:06.65\00:18:09.53
they've gonna
started or they're losing
00:18:09.54\00:18:11.65
control of the consequences.
00:18:11.66\00:18:14.07
And then finally,
the acid test for me
00:18:14.08\00:18:16.12
is the behavior,
removing me from reality,
00:18:16.13\00:18:20.73
from relationship,
and from responsibility.
00:18:20.74\00:18:23.34
You know, Carol, I'm
thinking about people
00:18:23.35\00:18:27.60
that I know outside the
church that perhaps think
00:18:27.61\00:18:31.82
going to the
casino is fun to do,
00:18:31.83\00:18:35.15
you know,
occasionally, but they seem --
00:18:35.16\00:18:38.12
they're usually, there
seems to be something, you know,
00:18:38.13\00:18:40.67
of course, we don't
believe in gambling,
00:18:40.68\00:18:42.50
but with gambling.
00:18:42.51\00:18:44.66
With many of the things
00:18:44.67\00:18:46.26
that people do to
entertain themselves,
00:18:46.27\00:18:49.10
there seems to be
a code, if you will,
00:18:49.11\00:18:54.91
that just gets
you wrapped around,
00:18:54.92\00:18:56.96
then starts to drawing them in.
00:18:56.97\00:18:59.44
And I don't, I'm sure
00:18:59.45\00:19:00.56
you can answer
this question for us.
00:19:00.57\00:19:02.54
Are some people
born with addictive
00:19:02.55\00:19:05.76
personalities like, you know,
00:19:05.77\00:19:07.58
the ones who take
one drink and, I mean,
00:19:07.59\00:19:09.44
it's in their genes,
00:19:09.45\00:19:10.42
they're gonna be an alcoholic,
00:19:10.43\00:19:12.01
do you think
that there are people
00:19:12.02\00:19:14.05
who are born with
additive personalities
00:19:14.06\00:19:16.64
if they can't just try something
00:19:16.65\00:19:18.72
and do a little of it,
but they get immediately,
00:19:18.73\00:19:22.85
they're getting
that Serotonin fix
00:19:22.86\00:19:24.47
that maybe they
don't have or something
00:19:24.48\00:19:26.64
and they get hooked on it?
00:19:26.65\00:19:28.03
Yes, yes, I do
believe that. Okay.
00:19:28.04\00:19:31.15
And I think we're
in pretty good company
00:19:31.16\00:19:33.00
as far as the
professions in the fields
00:19:33.01\00:19:35.67
that that seems
to be the, you know,
00:19:35.68\00:19:37.84
the prevailing opinion
is that some people have
00:19:37.85\00:19:40.73
a reward
deficiency syndrome. Okay.
00:19:40.74\00:19:43.49
Is what the
surgeon general called it,
00:19:43.50\00:19:47.82
the reward deficiency syndrome?
00:19:47.83\00:19:50.13
And certainly we know
the children of alcoholics
00:19:50.14\00:19:53.71
are hereditarily
or genetically prone.
00:19:53.72\00:19:58.32
So they have a biochemical
00:19:58.33\00:20:01.23
predisposition and I
happen to think that,
00:20:01.24\00:20:03.95
that's true of that,
that hereditary factor
00:20:03.96\00:20:07.55
is present even with
the clean addictions.
00:20:07.56\00:20:10.00
And so you had mentioned earlier
00:20:10.01\00:20:12.34
in another program,
actually, we were talking about
00:20:12.35\00:20:15.74
being addicted to unhappiness,
00:20:15.75\00:20:17.46
being addicted to misery,
00:20:17.47\00:20:19.06
if you will that there is a,
00:20:19.07\00:20:20.60
there can be a genetic
predisposition and that is--
00:20:20.61\00:20:25.38
Absolutely, yes but,
00:20:25.39\00:20:26.82
but bear in mind
that most of these
00:20:26.83\00:20:28.82
behaviors we're talking about,
00:20:28.83\00:20:29.99
chemical and
non-chemical, are very,
00:20:30.00\00:20:33.08
they produce a great
deal of pleasure at first
00:20:33.09\00:20:35.73
and that's what hooks people,
but you know that, if you go,
00:20:35.74\00:20:38.75
if you should go for
the first time in your life,
00:20:38.76\00:20:41.44
you go gamble
and play, you know,
00:20:41.45\00:20:43.57
and you win a thousand dollars,
00:20:43.58\00:20:45.68
don't you think that,
you'd want to do that again?
00:20:45.69\00:20:47.94
Oh, boy. You see,
so-- It's same with men
00:20:47.95\00:20:50.67
who think
they're just gonna take,
00:20:50.68\00:20:52.12
or young boys,
and they just take
00:20:52.13\00:20:53.61
a look at pornography and
we, I don't know, if you know,
00:20:53.62\00:20:58.07
Dr. Ed Weiss, but
I had interviewed him
00:20:58.08\00:21:00.77
and he was talking
about how that changes
00:21:00.78\00:21:04.42
the chemistry in their brain.
00:21:04.43\00:21:06.50
And then they've
got years to overcome,
00:21:06.51\00:21:09.87
to get away from this
type of. That's right.
00:21:09.88\00:21:13.32
To reprogram the
brain, if you will.
00:21:13.33\00:21:15.59
You know, it's very difficult.
00:21:15.60\00:21:16.95
Shopaholism is
the same way. Yes.
00:21:16.96\00:21:19.38
When a person
scores a terrific bargain,
00:21:19.39\00:21:21.80
they get a high from it. Yeah.
00:21:21.81\00:21:24.21
Yeah, so it's no
wonder that we want to repeat
00:21:24.22\00:21:27.10
behavior that we find
rewarding in first place,
00:21:27.11\00:21:29.69
and if we're, if
we're kind of deficient
00:21:29.70\00:21:31.51
of those rewarding
chemicals in our brains,
00:21:31.52\00:21:34.42
we're naturally gonna
want to get them somewhere.
00:21:34.43\00:21:37.36
That's
interesting. So now when you,
00:21:37.37\00:21:39.59
we were just talking about
we can do this intervention,
00:21:39.60\00:21:43.69
what are some
other ways, I mean,
00:21:43.70\00:21:45.22
what do you do, there
maybe someone out there
00:21:45.23\00:21:47.27
and you maybe
watching right now and say,
00:21:47.28\00:21:49.51
I can identify with
this and I realize that,
00:21:49.52\00:21:52.40
you're talking about
me and I'm a Christian,
00:21:52.41\00:21:54.89
and I go to church
and I didn't realize
00:21:54.90\00:21:56.76
that because they were
just having a sale on every week
00:21:56.77\00:22:00.96
and I go down
there, I'm a shopaholic.
00:22:00.97\00:22:03.63
What besides the intervention
00:22:03.64\00:22:06.80
are just coming to that
point where you are beyond
00:22:06.81\00:22:10.41
denial or you can get
someone beyond denial.
00:22:10.42\00:22:13.98
What's the next step out?
00:22:13.99\00:22:16.36
I think that for those of us
00:22:16.37\00:22:17.71
who are affected by someone,
00:22:17.72\00:22:19.22
who has a problem with chemicals
00:22:19.23\00:22:22.10
or with an activity
or process addiction,
00:22:22.11\00:22:24.79
the best thing we can
do is learn or develop
00:22:24.80\00:22:30.52
coping skills by
attending a group
00:22:30.53\00:22:33.57
like AL-Anon or Coda or
some other Twelve-Step Program
00:22:33.58\00:22:40.80
where we can
learn to stop blaming
00:22:40.81\00:22:46.08
ourselves and
stop trying to control
00:22:46.09\00:22:48.53
the other person's
behavior and just back off
00:22:48.54\00:22:51.25
and sort of like, go
and like God, if you will.
00:22:51.26\00:22:53.70
So you're saying join a
support group of some sort
00:22:53.71\00:22:57.08
that will--
Celebrate recovery or--
00:22:57.09\00:22:59.43
Help you not to be codependent.
00:22:59.44\00:23:04.12
And be so obsessed
with the other person
00:23:04.13\00:23:05.99
and with trying
to get them fixed
00:23:06.00\00:23:07.61
because when the codependent
members of the family
00:23:07.62\00:23:11.30
become so
involved in trying to get
00:23:11.31\00:23:12.90
the addictive person fixed,
it actually can drive them
00:23:12.91\00:23:16.73
deeper into their
addictive behavior. Oh, wow.
00:23:16.74\00:23:18.99
We've got to get the
focus back on ourselves
00:23:19.00\00:23:21.52
and on being as
healthy as we can ourselves.
00:23:21.53\00:23:24.25
So there's some mother
out here who's watching
00:23:24.26\00:23:28.07
and she has little
children and she's saying,
00:23:28.08\00:23:30.26
"You're telling me not
to try to fix my husband
00:23:30.27\00:23:33.58
who's hooked now
on pornography." Okay.
00:23:33.59\00:23:36.52
All right, that's a difficult,
00:23:36.53\00:23:38.65
that's a
difficult pill to swallow
00:23:38.66\00:23:41.27
I must to say,
I'm not to fix him.
00:23:41.28\00:23:43.84
But the more you try,
if you're not educated
00:23:43.85\00:23:46.03
in knowing what
you're doing the more
00:23:46.04\00:23:47.62
you probably gonna
drive them to the addiction.
00:23:47.63\00:23:50.19
So what's the
answer? You step back.
00:23:50.20\00:23:53.11
How does this person get help?
00:23:53.12\00:23:56.55
I think the
problem is far greater than
00:23:56.56\00:23:58.88
any of us can manage
and we do have to depend
00:23:58.89\00:24:01.85
on a higher power, we have to,
00:24:01.86\00:24:03.86
we have to-- And who
is that higher power?
00:24:03.87\00:24:06.22
That would be God.
00:24:06.23\00:24:07.20
Okay, I wanted to
make sure. Yeah. Right.
00:24:07.21\00:24:10.87
And certainly God
will work through people
00:24:10.88\00:24:12.91
and events in the
lives of the addicted person,
00:24:12.92\00:24:16.31
persons to bring them
hopefully to their senses.
00:24:16.32\00:24:20.88
You know, it's
been my experience
00:24:20.89\00:24:24.09
that through a family member,
00:24:24.10\00:24:26.41
that you can and I can say this,
00:24:26.42\00:24:30.84
my sister gives
me permission to,
00:24:30.85\00:24:32.96
she was hooked on chemical drugs
00:24:32.97\00:24:36.23
and I know we're talking about
00:24:36.24\00:24:37.88
the
non-chemical ones more today,
00:24:37.89\00:24:40.11
but she went through several
00:24:40.12\00:24:42.62
Twelve-Step Programs
00:24:42.63\00:24:44.25
that we placed
her in if you will.
00:24:44.26\00:24:47.50
And none of them took,
00:24:47.51\00:24:49.14
because she had
reached that point
00:24:49.15\00:24:52.10
where it had to be
between her and God
00:24:52.11\00:24:55.15
and her saying,
okay, I'm going to do this.
00:24:55.16\00:24:57.71
Now-- You have
to be really ready.
00:24:57.72\00:24:59.69
That's the point
I'm making You know,
00:24:59.70\00:25:00.72
sick and tired of being
sick and tired. There you go.
00:25:00.73\00:25:03.55
And know that your best efforts
00:25:03.56\00:25:05.99
have failed in every regard
and that you do need help.
00:25:06.00\00:25:11.67
Yes, and you know, I
know that if I say this,
00:25:11.68\00:25:14.00
I'm probably,
please don't write to me,
00:25:14.01\00:25:15.79
but I'll tell woman who,
whose husbands are seriously
00:25:15.80\00:25:20.30
into some really bad things.
00:25:20.31\00:25:22.41
And sometimes, it's
okay to have a separation
00:25:22.42\00:25:24.96
from that person,
especially if the --
00:25:24.97\00:25:28.76
not telling you get a divorce,
00:25:28.77\00:25:30.80
but separate till
they do seek help,
00:25:30.81\00:25:33.08
let them go their way.
00:25:33.09\00:25:34.40
So that it's not being so
detrimental to the family,
00:25:34.41\00:25:39.25
you know, when we have somebody
00:25:39.26\00:25:40.59
that's on drugs and alcohol,
and things that are going on,
00:25:40.60\00:25:44.87
sometimes it puts the other
00:25:44.88\00:25:47.90
spouse and children at risk.
00:25:47.91\00:25:49.85
Put some at risk can
in, it can endanger a wife
00:25:49.86\00:25:52.87
if a husband is a
sexaholic, for example,
00:25:52.88\00:25:55.28
it might be endangering
his wife's health. Amen.
00:25:55.29\00:25:58.55
And the welfare of the family,
00:25:58.56\00:26:01.64
so in a case like that for
the wife to take a time out
00:26:01.65\00:26:05.27
and say, "I'm willing to,
00:26:05.28\00:26:07.09
I want to remain
in this relationship,
00:26:07.10\00:26:08.84
God willing, but I need
to back off to protect myself
00:26:08.85\00:26:12.45
and create a little space here,
00:26:12.46\00:26:13.76
till you have time
that you would need
00:26:13.77\00:26:16.97
to recover from this addiction,
00:26:16.98\00:26:18.60
to go to whatever
lengths are necessary
00:26:18.61\00:26:20.90
to free yourself
from this addiction."
00:26:20.91\00:26:24.39
So we pray that, we know there's
00:26:24.40\00:26:26.97
some good programs
out there like Bridge to,
00:26:26.98\00:26:29.30
Bridge to Recovery,
is that the name of that
00:26:29.31\00:26:31.56
in Bowling Green, Kentucky.
00:26:31.57\00:26:33.07
But we also pray
that for the churches
00:26:33.08\00:26:36.03
that take addiction
and addictive behaviors
00:26:36.04\00:26:40.09
very seriously
because they maybe hidden,
00:26:40.10\00:26:42.90
but they are still in the church
00:26:42.91\00:26:44.50
even these "clean addictions".
00:26:44.51\00:26:49.16
Present
themselves in the church,
00:26:49.17\00:26:50.77
so we hope that they'll
get some kind of program going,
00:26:50.78\00:26:53.16
bring people in who can speak
to this, right? Yes, indeed.
00:26:53.17\00:26:56.33
And know that truly God is able.
00:26:56.34\00:26:58.80
Psalm 129 verse 4 says
that, "He is righteous,
00:26:58.81\00:27:02.50
He will cut us
free from the cords
00:27:02.51\00:27:03.90
of the wicked that binds us."
00:27:03.91\00:27:05.46
And it takes God's
help and empowerment,
00:27:05.47\00:27:09.92
your cooperation
and sometimes, you know,
00:27:09.93\00:27:12.64
like my sister was
delivered 22 years ago,
00:27:12.65\00:27:15.46
overnight from her behavior
00:27:15.47\00:27:17.42
and never repeated any
alcohol or the drugs at all.
00:27:17.43\00:27:21.57
But for some people,
it's a day-by-day thing.
00:27:21.58\00:27:24.95
And so it takes
sometimes professional
00:27:24.96\00:27:27.96
health to come out-- Absolutely,
00:27:27.97\00:27:29.09
yes-- Carol Cannon,
00:27:29.10\00:27:30.98
thank you so much for
being back with us again,
00:27:30.99\00:27:33.76
and will you comeback
and talk to us more about
00:27:33.77\00:27:35.83
the chemical dependencies?
Sure, anytime. Thank you.
00:27:35.84\00:27:39.73
Thank you. For
those of you at home,
00:27:39.74\00:27:41.06
we're so glad that,
you could join us today.
00:27:41.07\00:27:42.88
And if you are someone
that's hiding an addiction,
00:27:42.89\00:27:46.23
I want to encourage you
to reach out and get help.
00:27:46.24\00:27:49.70
Pray and ask
God, talk to someone,
00:27:49.71\00:27:52.00
find a support
group, get some help,
00:27:52.01\00:27:55.46
because it isn't an
easy thing to overcome,
00:27:55.47\00:27:58.82
it's a struggle,
but you can make it,
00:27:58.83\00:28:00.76
and who the son has set
free will be free indeed.
00:28:00.77\00:28:05.87
Thank you so much
for joining us today,
00:28:05.88\00:28:07.83
and we'll see you next time.
00:28:07.84\00:28:09.17