I guess it wouldn't surprise,
if I told you that there is
00:00:01.98\00:00:03.18
consequences to every
action that we make and
00:00:03.21\00:00:06.76
today on Issues &
Answers we are going to
00:00:06.79\00:00:09.05
be talking about
the consequences that
00:00:09.08\00:00:12.02
womankind have suffered
because of the original sin
00:00:12.05\00:00:16.61
of Eve, but we're also
gonna talk about how those
00:00:16.64\00:00:20.36
consequences
returned into a blessing in
00:00:20.39\00:00:22.99
Jesus Christ. Please join us.
00:00:23.02\00:00:25.00
Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn
we are so glad that you're
00:00:50.73\00:00:52.87
joining us today
on Issues & Answers.
00:00:52.90\00:00:54.75
We are gonna be
talking about how Jesus turns
00:00:55.10\00:00:58.10
the curse into a
blessing. And you know, that
00:00:58.13\00:01:00.66
reminds me of the
scripture from Isaiah
00:01:00.69\00:01:02.52
chapter 61. I'm
actually gonna begin in verse 2.
00:01:02.55\00:01:06.00
He says, he is talking
about how the spirit of
00:01:06.03\00:01:08.54
the Lord was upon him.
And he says, to proclaim
00:01:08.57\00:01:11.31
the acceptable year of
the LORD and the day of
00:01:11.34\00:01:15.73
vengeance to comfort
all who mourn to console
00:01:15.76\00:01:18.98
those who mourn and
sign to give them beauty
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for ashes. The oil
of joy for mourning, the
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garment of praise for
the spirit of heaviness that
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they maybe called
Trees of Righteousness.
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The planting of the LORD
and that they made by glorified.
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Isn't that a beautiful
promise from God's word.
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Well, please help us,
welcome today our very
00:01:40.44\00:01:43.23
special guest. She has a
master in Human Services.
00:01:43.26\00:01:46.38
She is also a
national certified counselor.
00:01:46.41\00:01:49.29
The Christian counselor
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
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Good to be here.
Jennifer, we're always
00:01:52.69\00:01:55.11
pleased to have you and
tell us a little bit for those
00:01:55.14\00:01:58.66
you've been on 3ABN
quite often, but many
00:01:58.69\00:02:00.94
people don't know who
you are. So, tell us little
00:02:00.97\00:02:02.92
bit about your ministry.
Okay, I have a teaching,
00:02:02.95\00:02:07.03
writing, music actually
and counseling ministry.
00:02:07.51\00:02:11.24
Okay, and you
went back to school
00:02:12.04\00:02:13.67
recently you kind of did
a Raise a couple of kids.
00:02:13.70\00:02:16.86
A carrier change didn't
you. Did lot of the traveling
00:02:16.89\00:02:19.19
and speaking type
stuff, while my kids were
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growing up and then
once they were launched then
00:02:21.56\00:02:23.79
I needed a full-time
job. So, I went back to school
00:02:23.82\00:02:26.36
and got Masters in
Mental Health Counseling.
00:02:26.39\00:02:28.69
Okay, and now you that
is, what's your practice is?
00:02:28.72\00:02:31.50
Is you are working
with people, but you're a
00:02:31.53\00:02:33.17
Christian
counselor, which means what?
00:02:33.20\00:02:35.05
It means that God comes
into the therapy process
00:02:35.08\00:02:38.59
and that you know,
when, when man fell into sin.
00:02:38.62\00:02:41.71
He created a God size
problem. And, so I don't
00:02:41.74\00:02:44.72
pretend that I can help
people fix their problems
00:02:44.75\00:02:47.19
or that I can fix
their problems for them.
00:02:47.22\00:02:48.95
Because their problems
are bigger then any of us.
00:02:49.44\00:02:51.23
Can, can manage, but
God in the process can,
00:02:51.82\00:02:54.57
can provide what they
need. You know, I know that
00:02:54.60\00:02:57.15
you and I've
discussed before my husband was
00:02:57.18\00:02:59.51
working on his doctorate
in psychology, when he quit
00:02:59.54\00:03:02.15
school and he took years
to get that programming out of
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his brain basically.
Now, what he uses a scripture
00:03:06.83\00:03:10.85
to counsel with and I
believe that's what you
00:03:10.88\00:03:13.00
do a lot too, isn't it?
A lot of scripture, yeah
00:03:13.03\00:03:14.67
lot of Biblically
based counseling. Amen.
00:03:14.70\00:03:17.26
Because that's
where the, the truth is.
00:03:17.29\00:03:18.94
I mean there is some
really good stuff in the
00:03:18.97\00:03:20.83
field of psychology,
it's not all you know,
00:03:20.86\00:03:23.39
nonsense. There's some
really good thinking that's gone
00:03:23.42\00:03:25.69
on some good research, but
you know there is a quotation
00:03:25.72\00:03:28.71
that I think is inspired
it says, man, man's word if
00:03:29.18\00:03:32.36
of any value echo
the words of God. Amen.
00:03:32.39\00:03:35.69
And, so sometime
science even the social sciences
00:03:35.72\00:03:38.11
echo the words of God, but
why not go direct the source?
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Amen, I like that.
Yeah. Well, today, we're gonna
00:03:40.98\00:03:43.66
be talking about the
consequences of visiting
00:03:43.69\00:03:47.90
the tree of the knowledge
of good and evil, and you
00:03:47.93\00:03:52.39
know I always tell people
that the fruits on that tree
00:03:52.42\00:03:55.35
there were two different
fruits. One that say, this's
00:03:55.38\00:03:57.88
good, this is evil.
But, it was the idea of man
00:03:57.91\00:04:02.56
trying to decide when
God told him don't touch
00:04:02.59\00:04:05.82
this tree; don't eat of
that tree in the garden that
00:04:05.85\00:04:09.08
essentially God didn't
want them to try to figure
00:04:09.11\00:04:12.05
out, what was good for
them or what was bad for them?
00:04:12.08\00:04:14.22
Because that's God's
job. And so this was kind
00:04:14.25\00:04:18.14
of a test of their
loyalty to him. That's right.
00:04:18.17\00:04:20.05
And, when Eve
succumbed to the temptations put
00:04:20.56\00:04:25.26
before her by the
devil. The Lord did something,
00:04:25.29\00:04:28.85
let's talk about
that. Let's read it first
00:04:28.88\00:04:31.85
okay, Genesis chapter
3 and starting in verse.
00:04:31.88\00:04:35.31
Well, it's verse 16.
"To the woman he said,
00:04:35.69\00:04:37.78
I will greatly
multiply your pain in childbirth
00:04:37.81\00:04:40.13
and pain you shall
bring forth children, yet
00:04:40.70\00:04:42.60
your desire shall be
for your husband and he
00:04:42.94\00:04:45.59
will rule over you." So,
there is three parts to that
00:04:45.62\00:04:50.32
proclamation that God
made. One is that, she
00:04:51.30\00:04:53.63
would have pain in childbearing.
00:04:53.66\00:04:55.09
The second is that,
her desire would be for her
00:04:55.84\00:04:59.76
husband. And the third is
that he would rule over her.
00:04:59.79\00:05:03.01
What I have done in the
study that we're gonna be
00:05:03.53\00:05:05.39
talking about now, is
I have shown how that has
00:05:05.42\00:05:08.08
come to pass globally
for women that they have
00:05:08.32\00:05:12.89
all kinds of pain in, in
childbearing. And in the,
00:05:12.92\00:05:15.22
not just the physical
process of childbearing,
00:05:15.25\00:05:17.57
but the whole process of
caring for people, raising
00:05:18.02\00:05:20.90
children women are
more often caretakers, the
00:05:20.93\00:05:23.41
whole process have
been kind of the caretakers,
00:05:23.44\00:05:25.69
women suffer much
within those context.
00:05:25.72\00:05:28.70
And then the desire
that women have for her
00:05:29.12\00:05:31.98
husbands approval in
the garden of Eden, but that
00:05:32.01\00:05:34.06
can be expanded to
include you know, the
00:05:34.09\00:05:37.65
general impulse that
women have in the drive
00:05:37.68\00:05:40.85
that women have to
acquire male approval,
00:05:40.88\00:05:43.42
and I have seen this
over-and-over again in
00:05:43.45\00:05:45.70
myself and in another
women and then the third
00:05:45.73\00:05:48.76
part of that is that
he would rule over her.
00:05:48.79\00:05:51.35
So, that's a talking
about male dominance.
00:05:51.38\00:05:53.20
So, there are those
three aspects to this
00:05:53.23\00:05:55.59
consequence that was
pronounced upon women
00:05:56.13\00:05:57.89
and I just want to show
statistically, how that's
00:05:57.92\00:06:00.00
come to pass, but I
wanna ask people to stay with
00:06:00.03\00:06:03.45
this program until
the end because it will be
00:06:03.48\00:06:05.77
very discouraging for
a period of time, it look
00:06:05.80\00:06:08.56
very dark, at the end
we will see what God's
00:06:08.59\00:06:10.74
intensions were that
ultimately he did want to
00:06:10.77\00:06:14.21
turn this curse into a blessing.
00:06:14.24\00:06:15.88
Yeah, and he wasn't
let's call it the consequence
00:06:16.35\00:06:18.47
more than a curse
because we know that.
00:06:18.50\00:06:19.83
He didn't directly
curse. He curse the serpent,
00:06:19.86\00:06:21.94
he curse the ground.
Right. But to man and women
00:06:21.97\00:06:24.11
he just said this
with the consequences.
00:06:24.14\00:06:25.88
And I believe I'm
kind of reading ahead here,
00:06:26.25\00:06:29.56
you tell if I'm wrong.
Okay. But some of the statistics
00:06:29.59\00:06:32.88
that you're going to
be sharing with us. Right.
00:06:32.91\00:06:34.98
Are directly related,
but I don't think there were
00:06:35.15\00:06:38.31
God's intensions so
much as the devil took
00:06:38.34\00:06:41.56
advantage or man
took advantage. Amen.
00:06:41.59\00:06:43.85
Of that
situation, is that correct?
00:06:43.88\00:06:45.74
Can I read, read
something right on that point?
00:06:45.77\00:06:47.44
Yes. Okay, this is from
Ellen White and I believe,
00:06:47.47\00:06:50.85
it was, it's an
inspired statement.
00:06:50.88\00:06:52.69
Had the principles in
joined in the love God
00:06:53.30\00:06:55.32
had been cherished
by the fallen race.
00:06:55.35\00:06:56.92
This sentences
speaking of what I just read.
00:06:56.95\00:06:59.66
The growing out of the
results of sin would have
00:07:00.12\00:07:02.16
proved a blessing to
them, but man's abuse of
00:07:02.19\00:07:06.44
the supremacy does
given him has too often render
00:07:06.47\00:07:10.38
the lot of women very bitter
and made her life a burden.
00:07:10.41\00:07:13.92
Amen. So, there was
this consequence of sin that
00:07:13.95\00:07:18.02
came, God would have
turned it into a blessing,
00:07:18.05\00:07:20.84
but instead because of
man's abuse of the supremacy.
00:07:21.37\00:07:26.39
Right. Women's slot
has been made very bitter,
00:07:26.42\00:07:28.65
So, yes God has
good intension toward us.
00:07:28.68\00:07:32.81
He wasn't, he wasn't
saying this is how I want things
00:07:32.84\00:07:35.43
to be for you. He was
saying this is a consequence of
00:07:35.46\00:07:38.31
what you did, but God
always turns these things
00:07:38.34\00:07:41.72
into a blessing in
Christ. Amen. Amen.
00:07:41.75\00:07:43.77
Let's talk about the
pain in childbearing.
00:07:45.21\00:07:46.74
And again I want to expand it to
00:07:46.77\00:07:48.41
include not just women
actually giving birth to a
00:07:48.44\00:07:50.97
child, which is very painful.
I have two children with
00:07:51.00\00:07:54.12
no anesthesia and I can
tell you, it is painful,
00:07:54.15\00:07:56.53
but it's not just that
it's the whole process of
00:07:56.94\00:07:59.48
nurturing people and
being you know, being a
00:07:59.51\00:08:01.71
mother to various
people, which we find ourselves
00:08:01.74\00:08:04.13
in that role very often.
But, let's talk about, but
00:08:04.16\00:08:07.94
both really. The birth
rate, the global birth rate 134
00:08:07.97\00:08:11.91
million babies a year
child deaths 10.6 million
00:08:11.94\00:08:14.97
a year, that's a
lot of deaths. It is.
00:08:15.00\00:08:17.92
Pregnancy and
childbirth deaths of the women
00:08:18.12\00:08:20.55
1 million a year. Postpartum
depression 10 to 40 million
00:08:20.58\00:08:25.12
women a year, a
roughly one women dies every
00:08:25.15\00:08:28.77
minute as a result of
pregnancy complications
00:08:28.80\00:08:30.92
and childbirth. Of course
the majority of these are,
00:08:30.95\00:08:33.82
it's amazing, in developing
countries so thank God
00:08:33.85\00:08:35.92
because of medical
science we're able to
00:08:35.95\00:08:38.05
make the
childbirth process much safer.
00:08:38.08\00:08:41.74
But, what about the
single mothers, a lot of women
00:08:42.43\00:08:44.62
bearing the burden of
raising children on their
00:08:44.65\00:08:47.01
own 10 million in the
US, 82.5 millions mothers of
00:08:47.04\00:08:52.00
all kinds and up
from 3 million in 1970.
00:08:52.03\00:08:55.60
So, there is an increasing
number of single mothers
00:08:55.63\00:08:57.94
women. Caring the
responsibilities of both
00:08:57.97\00:09:01.10
father and mother on
their own this is put a lot
00:09:01.38\00:09:04.90
of pressure on women.
Amen. It's very difficult.
00:09:04.93\00:09:07.07
Yes. So, there is a pain
in childbearing and, and,
00:09:07.10\00:09:09.67
I would expand that to
include all of the things
00:09:09.70\00:09:12.16
women do by way of
caretaking. When the
00:09:12.19\00:09:14.70
parent's age start to
break down, who is the one
00:09:14.73\00:09:17.20
that ends up dealing with
the, with the aging parent
00:09:17.23\00:09:20.09
with dementia, that
ends up helping through that
00:09:20.12\00:09:22.35
process, that ends
up being their for those
00:09:22.38\00:09:24.23
parents most often it's
the women. So, this is one of
00:09:24.26\00:09:27.53
the things that
came as a result of sin.
00:09:27.56\00:09:29.32
So, women in their
caregiver roles have
00:09:30.77\00:09:32.99
bared, born a lot of
the burden and the lot of
00:09:33.24\00:09:36.57
suffering has
come because of that.
00:09:36.60\00:09:38.00
That's right, that's
right. So, what about the idea
00:09:38.03\00:09:39.85
of the women's
desire for her husband?
00:09:39.88\00:09:42.52
Yeah, that's the one
that's really intriguing to me.
00:09:42.55\00:09:44.58
What is that mean
that you, you'll have this
00:09:44.61\00:09:46.74
longing desire and that
that word isn't used very
00:09:46.77\00:09:49.42
often in scripture in it.
It really means this intense
00:09:49.45\00:09:52.23
you know, this craving
toward the man that the
00:09:52.26\00:09:56.26
women would have. So,
I was thinking about that
00:09:56.29\00:09:59.57
and, and I did
little research on women.
00:09:59.60\00:10:01.28
You know, women's
brains have half the
00:10:01.31\00:10:03.04
serotonin that men's,
that men's brains have.
00:10:03.07\00:10:05.73
Really. They are more
prone to depression and anxiety
00:10:05.76\00:10:08.17
disorders related to
that. So, that's one thing more
00:10:08.20\00:10:13.69
prone to what we call
the neurotic disorders, but
00:10:13.72\00:10:16.10
I think partly as a result
of that and just because of
00:10:16.13\00:10:19.67
sort of the innate
qualities of being female.
00:10:19.70\00:10:22.97
Women are more
prone to codependency.
00:10:23.00\00:10:25.31
I don't know, if you've heard
that term, it's a term that
00:10:25.96\00:10:28.12
thrown around a lot.
Let me, let me read a
00:10:28.15\00:10:30.56
definition of
codependency that I
00:10:30.59\00:10:31.82
think is an excellent
one. Codependent relationship
00:10:31.85\00:10:34.89
is a relationship in
which one person loses their
00:10:34.92\00:10:37.45
individuality to
another. Codependent people
00:10:37.48\00:10:41.91
frequently engage
an enabling behaviors.
00:10:41.94\00:10:44.49
An enabling
behaviors are doing for someone
00:10:44.52\00:10:47.36
things they could and
should do for themselves.
00:10:47.39\00:10:49.75
So, women often
find themselves in
00:10:50.27\00:10:52.27
Relationships, where
they are losing their
00:10:52.30\00:10:54.49
individuality to another
person and very often it's
00:10:54.52\00:10:58.32
to a man and I think
it's because of this longing
00:10:58.83\00:11:01.84
desire for bail
approval. And, and I you know,
00:11:01.87\00:11:05.15
I've seen it
over-and-over again.
00:11:05.18\00:11:07.21
Clinically, I have
seen it in friends;
00:11:07.24\00:11:09.41
I've seen it in people
that women will do really self
00:11:09.44\00:11:13.01
destructive and
sometimes just stupid
00:11:13.04\00:11:15.65
things out of desire to
get the approval of the man
00:11:15.68\00:11:18.98
in their life. This is an
entirely bad thing, but it,
00:11:19.01\00:11:22.66
but it goes really
bad in the context of a
00:11:22.69\00:11:25.55
relationship that is
not Christ Centered, so.
00:11:25.99\00:11:28.81
Yes, because if it
is a Christ Centered
00:11:28.84\00:11:31.44
relationship being
submissive to a man is easy
00:11:31.47\00:11:37.12
because if the husband is
a truly loving the wife as
00:11:37.15\00:11:41.30
Christ love the
church. Yeah. Doesn't mean that
00:11:41.33\00:11:44.21
he is ruling over her
so much as his guiding
00:11:44.24\00:11:48.30
in a woman can,
servant leadership
00:11:48.33\00:11:49.37
it's a servant leadership.
That's right, that's right.
00:11:49.59\00:11:51.50
But, then when the man is
not in that situation and a
00:11:51.53\00:11:55.52
women is, is
acquiescing to his every desire.
00:11:55.55\00:12:00.76
I have seen a lot
of women who totally
00:12:00.97\00:12:03.22
lost their individuality.
Yeah, yes. You know,
00:12:03.25\00:12:05.22
I have done a lot thinking
about this and I, I have
00:12:05.25\00:12:08.53
asked myself, why is
it that women crave this
00:12:08.56\00:12:12.17
approval for men?
Why, why what is kind of
00:12:12.20\00:12:14.95
under opining that
whole phenomenon. Now, really
00:12:14.98\00:12:17.72
sure, I understand it
fully, but I know that from
00:12:17.75\00:12:20.14
research that there is
this thing called the Male
00:12:20.17\00:12:22.45
Preference
Phenomenon. We tend a few man is
00:12:22.48\00:12:26.26
more competent than
women, even when it's
00:12:26.29\00:12:27.97
not so. Research was
done with 360 college
00:12:28.00\00:12:32.76
students, a 180 male
and 180 female. So, an equal
00:12:32.79\00:12:35.64
mix of male and
female, they were given an
00:12:35.67\00:12:38.03
academic article and it
was the same article that
00:12:38.06\00:12:41.54
each person was given,
but they were signed by
00:12:41.57\00:12:43.67
either a male name, a
female name or initials.
00:12:43.70\00:12:46.47
So, the people that got
the essay looked at and read
00:12:47.00\00:12:50.34
the article and saw
that either a man had written
00:12:50.37\00:12:53.53
it or a women had
written it or they didn't know,
00:12:53.56\00:12:55.73
who it which had
written it. And what was found
00:12:55.76\00:12:58.41
was that the article
written by a male was
00:12:58.44\00:13:00.46
evaluated more favorable then if
00:13:00.49\00:13:03.03
the author was not male.
So, there is just tendency
00:13:03.06\00:13:06.50
we have to think that
man have it more together,
00:13:06.53\00:13:09.39
it's just, it's
just, just human nature.
00:13:09.42\00:13:11.01
And, I think that's
part of this whole mix and
00:13:12.30\00:13:14.07
I think that that's part of
what's fueled, the next step
00:13:14.10\00:13:17.24
in the series of
consequences of sin
00:13:17.27\00:13:19.07
and that's male dominance.
So, if we could talk about
00:13:19.10\00:13:22.10
that phenomenon. Please.
Women are at an educational
00:13:22.13\00:13:25.09
disadvantage
globally, Women are socially and
00:13:25.12\00:13:27.89
politically weaker
obvious. Women are the primary
00:13:27.92\00:13:31.55
victims of the sex
trade. Women are the primary
00:13:31.58\00:13:34.49
victims of domestic
abuse. Women are the primary
00:13:34.52\00:13:37.41
victims of rape. Women
are the primary victims of
00:13:37.44\00:13:39.88
sexual abuse just on
the domestic abuse point.
00:13:39.91\00:13:42.90
Women are victims of
domestic abuse in, in home
00:13:42.93\00:13:47.03
you know, where
there is a man and women 95
00:13:47.16\00:13:49.05
percent of the time there
is abuse, it's perpetuated
00:13:49.08\00:13:51.22
by the male upon the
female. This poses a whole a
00:13:51.25\00:13:54.53
series of questions,
when there is two males in a
00:13:54.56\00:13:57.02
relationship we have
lot of domestic abuse in Gay
00:13:57.05\00:14:00.04
Male Marriages, but
that's just on the side.
00:14:00.07\00:14:02.19
Women on
domestic abuse between one
00:14:03.17\00:14:06.65
quarter and one half
of women have been abused.
00:14:06.68\00:14:09.18
Worldwide 40 to
70 percent of female
00:14:10.49\00:14:12.99
motive victim are
killed by an intermit partner.
00:14:13.02\00:14:15.41
And this is true across
all social economic religious
00:14:16.64\00:14:19.89
and cultural groups.
Now, this is an amazing little
00:14:19.92\00:14:23.50
piece of information
here, get ready for this.
00:14:23.53\00:14:25.42
This was in from 1980.
In 1980, half of the world's
00:14:25.45\00:14:29.45
population roughly
have the women of the world.
00:14:29.48\00:14:32.16
Did two thirds of
the world work made one
00:14:33.28\00:14:36.89
tenth of the world's
income and on one, one
00:14:36.92\00:14:40.82
hundredth of the world's
property. So, has not this
00:14:40.85\00:14:45.69
proclamation that God made in
00:14:46.56\00:14:48.30
Genesis 3 come true
in the lives of women and
00:14:48.33\00:14:50.48
you know, I'm not a
affirming at the mouth
00:14:51.20\00:14:52.60
feminist you know,
I don't have agenda,
00:14:52.63\00:14:54.83
I'm not a man hater,
I'm just looking at the
00:14:54.86\00:14:57.24
facts. God's said this
what happen and it's happening.
00:14:57.27\00:15:00.69
But, what I want to say
about that is, it was not
00:15:00.72\00:15:04.24
what he meant to happen.
Amen. Amen, you get what I'm.
00:15:04.27\00:15:07.36
I know that, yeah absolutely.
Yes, there is a danger of
00:15:07.39\00:15:10.96
looking at this thing
as if God wanted women to
00:15:10.99\00:15:14.19
suffer in this manner and
it is most certainly not the
00:15:14.22\00:15:17.01
case and that's why, I
ask people to stay with the
00:15:17.04\00:15:19.09
program until the end.
I want to this, and I want
00:15:19.12\00:15:22.54
to say at loud and
clear that God turns the
00:15:22.57\00:15:24.53
curse into a
blessing or, exactly.
00:15:24.56\00:15:26.38
The consequences of
sin into a blessing,
00:15:26.41\00:15:28.72
everything reverses in
Christ. This is a Biblical
00:15:28.75\00:15:30.95
principle, I called it
the much more principle,
00:15:30.98\00:15:33.57
if sin abounded
grace did much more abound.
00:15:33.84\00:15:37.42
We can see this
principle in several things
00:15:37.72\00:15:40.22
throughout the redemption story.
00:15:40.25\00:15:41.76
One is the cross itself.
The very worse thing that
00:15:41.79\00:15:44.42
could ever happen,
humanity crucifying their
00:15:44.45\00:15:47.51
creator and redeemer.
The very worse thing that
00:15:47.54\00:15:49.84
could happen. God
made it into the best thing
00:15:49.87\00:15:52.12
that ever happen.
Exactly. The Cross the greatest
00:15:52.15\00:15:54.19
manifestation of God's
love that the universe is
00:15:54.22\00:15:56.21
ever seen. So, God take
the curse transit into a
00:15:56.24\00:15:59.54
blessing. We can see in
the fact that this, this
00:15:59.57\00:16:02.58
planet the one benighted
planet in the universe, the
00:16:02.61\00:16:05.25
one planet that
descendent into sin.
00:16:05.28\00:16:07.12
Is going to become you
know, the center of the
00:16:07.47\00:16:09.44
universe in the sense
that, that the unfallen beings
00:16:09.47\00:16:12.19
were look here to
get and gain and greater
00:16:12.22\00:16:14.41
understanding of
God's character. So, we have
00:16:14.44\00:16:16.59
see that much more principle.
God is constantly in the
00:16:16.62\00:16:20.17
process of redeeming
our failures, redeeming the
00:16:20.20\00:16:24.10
fall out of sin
and, and turning the
00:16:24.13\00:16:26.39
curses into
blessing. And, it's just really
00:16:26.42\00:16:28.64
exciting to me that,
that he is that way and so,
00:16:28.67\00:16:30.99
what I have see in, in,
in you know, this principle
00:16:31.02\00:16:34.06
in this context is
that God never designed for
00:16:34.09\00:16:37.71
women to suffer like
this. And I read a quotation to
00:16:37.74\00:16:40.80
that affect. A
moment ago, but let me read
00:16:40.83\00:16:43.85
another one, if I could.
Please. This is about the
00:16:43.88\00:16:46.38
whole concept of male
dominance. Some people
00:16:46.41\00:16:48.86
look at this curse
in Genesis and they say
00:16:48.89\00:16:51.47
well, you know, I'm
gonna dominate my wife.
00:16:51.50\00:16:53.28
Listen to this, it's
very interesting. Man must be
00:16:53.58\00:16:57.28
under the rule of Christ
that he may represent the
00:16:57.31\00:16:59.81
relation of Christ to
the church. If he is course,
00:16:59.84\00:17:03.50
rough, boisterous,
echo deistical harsh, and
00:17:03.53\00:17:06.67
overbearing man, let
him never utter the words
00:17:06.70\00:17:10.91
that the husband is
the head of the wife.
00:17:10.94\00:17:12.85
Oh! It's good. And
then she must submit
00:17:12.88\00:17:14.86
to him in everything
for he is not the Lord,
00:17:14.89\00:17:17.20
he is not the
husband in the true
00:17:17.69\00:17:19.31
significance of the term. Amen.
00:17:19.34\00:17:22.02
Is it not a draw,
dropper? That's a great one
00:17:22.05\00:17:23.74
But, getting back to
this much more principle.
00:17:24.02\00:17:26.06
It, it was God's design
that this, this terrible
00:17:26.69\00:17:30.52
incident of the
fall into sin in Eden.
00:17:30.55\00:17:33.11
Would be transformed
by his transforming grace
00:17:33.55\00:17:36.52
into something
really beautiful and so God
00:17:37.02\00:17:39.17
wants women
within, he doesn't take the
00:17:39.20\00:17:42.33
consequences of sin
away, but he redeems the
00:17:42.36\00:17:44.73
consequences of sin.
So, in the consequences of
00:17:44.76\00:17:48.55
a Godly marriage for
instance with a servant
00:17:48.58\00:17:50.76
leader for a husband
and women can have, have a
00:17:50.79\00:17:53.21
totally different experience
then this you know, male
00:17:53.24\00:17:56.39
domination that I was
describing a minute to go.
00:17:56.42\00:17:58.49
You know, this is when
you see around the world
00:17:58.52\00:18:01.80
people, who were
Christianity is a sin that
00:18:01.83\00:18:04.74
women's plaque has been
better. And even, but even
00:18:04.77\00:18:09.04
within the church
there are some who have taken
00:18:09.07\00:18:12.06
Ephesians chapter 5.
In particularly verse 22,
00:18:12.09\00:18:16.50
where it says, wife
had submit to your own
00:18:16.53\00:18:18.58
husbands. Some men
have take that as I will
00:18:18.61\00:18:22.91
dominate you know, and
they forget that in verse 21.
00:18:22.94\00:18:26.47
It says, submitting to one
another in the fear of God.
00:18:26.50\00:18:29.49
But, as Paul goes on
and he is talking about
00:18:29.52\00:18:33.49
husbands you should
love your wife like you do
00:18:33.52\00:18:37.95
your own body. And
husbands are to love their
00:18:37.98\00:18:39.87
wife's like
Christ loves the church.
00:18:39.90\00:18:41.72
When you think about
that Christ was ready to
00:18:42.22\00:18:45.35
die for the church. And
it is all about the servant
00:18:45.38\00:18:48.65
leadership and then
the idea of submission is
00:18:48.68\00:18:52.25
more the way I
explain it anyways.
00:18:52.28\00:18:54.67
It's a response to sacrifice.
It is, in the way I explain
00:18:54.70\00:18:57.62
is you know, anytime if,
if a creature has two heads
00:18:57.65\00:19:03.68
we would agree that
is some kind of a monster
00:19:03.71\00:19:05.92
belongs in a circus. Umm! Umm!
00:19:05.95\00:19:07.58
So, in a marriage
God knew, that you could
00:19:07.61\00:19:09.92
have this marriage
unit with two heads.
00:19:09.95\00:19:12.73
And he gave the husband
this authority, but he also
00:19:13.28\00:19:16.37
gave as head of the
household but he also gave him
00:19:16.40\00:19:20.02
so much accountability
to God. And then if the
00:19:20.05\00:19:25.06
husband though is lined
up underneath God as the
00:19:25.09\00:19:29.04
head, the wife is the neck
that turns the head you know.
00:19:29.07\00:19:33.48
That's interesting.
That's how I look at it is
00:19:33.51\00:19:35.74
that she influences
the husband in turning the
00:19:35.77\00:19:38.64
head, but I often
will tell people J.D.
00:19:38.67\00:19:43.12
is very easy. It our,
it's very easy for me to be
00:19:43.15\00:19:47.53
submissive to him.
Because he loves me in
00:19:47.56\00:19:51.19
such a way he has my
best interested at heart.
00:19:51.22\00:19:54.95
He is not trying to control
me to say, were you can't
00:19:55.50\00:19:58.94
do this or you could
do this. He wants me to
00:19:58.97\00:20:01.60
become all that I
can't be it's that
00:20:01.63\00:20:04.04
much more principle.
You know, when you're
00:20:04.07\00:20:06.40
talking about that I
was thinking how Jesus said
00:20:06.43\00:20:09.23
in John 10:10; that the
thief comes only to steal
00:20:09.26\00:20:13.18
to kill and destroy,
but I have come that they
00:20:13.21\00:20:15.80
might have life and
have it more abundantly.
00:20:15.83\00:20:18.67
I would like to speak
to women, who might be
00:20:18.70\00:20:21.37
single or not married
and so, how did they see,
00:20:21.40\00:20:23.45
how God can turn the
curse into a blessing and
00:20:23.48\00:20:25.64
that the context of
their lives. And I, I think of
00:20:25.67\00:20:28.75
being involved in the
church, okay for instance
00:20:29.33\00:20:31.36
or, or being involve
in society. A lot of times
00:20:31.39\00:20:33.73
women are marginalized
or they are not in the
00:20:33.76\00:20:36.88
circle of privilege
sort of speak. They might
00:20:36.91\00:20:38.85
experience has been
left out because of you know,
00:20:38.88\00:20:41.14
male dominance and
this type of thing.
00:20:41.17\00:20:43.32
And that might even
happen in the church, but
00:20:44.12\00:20:46.24
you know, the thing
is that God can use women
00:20:46.27\00:20:48.74
outside of orthodox
channels. For instance
00:20:48.77\00:20:52.48
Mary Magdalene you know,
she was constantly put down
00:20:52.51\00:20:56.70
from what I can
gather from scripture by the
00:20:56.73\00:20:58.55
disciples because she
was a women, because of her
00:20:58.58\00:21:01.30
past and for whatever
reason and yet Jesus was
00:21:01.33\00:21:04.17
able to use her more than
use any other disciple and
00:21:04.20\00:21:07.23
issued a
compliment to her beyond any
00:21:07.26\00:21:09.21
complement that
he gave any disciple.
00:21:09.24\00:21:11.11
And in other words God
used her even though she
00:21:11.56\00:21:14.79
didn't get the recognition
maybe that a man would
00:21:14.82\00:21:17.39
have gotten. And, so I
see God doing this type
00:21:17.42\00:21:20.55
of thing you know,
he doesn't necessarily
00:21:20.58\00:21:22.38
change our
circumstances many women are in
00:21:22.41\00:21:24.63
situations were they
are dominated unfairly, but
00:21:24.66\00:21:27.85
God can even you know,
turns, turn things around
00:21:27.88\00:21:31.38
within the context
of that circumstance.
00:21:31.41\00:21:33.63
Amen. But, I should
say that we should try for
00:21:33.66\00:21:36.49
something better and I
think that's you made that
00:21:36.52\00:21:38.30
point a minute ago that
in our culture here in the
00:21:38.33\00:21:41.57
U.S for instance. Women
are on the whole treated
00:21:41.60\00:21:44.81
more fairly than in
other parts of the world.
00:21:44.84\00:21:46.70
I think the only thing
that can explain that is the
00:21:46.73\00:21:49.30
influence of the
gospel. Now, the church is in
00:21:49.33\00:21:52.08
always correct in his
position on things, but
00:21:52.11\00:21:55.54
where, wherever the
gospel is, wherever the
00:21:55.57\00:21:57.36
spirit of God is then
women and children and
00:21:57.39\00:22:00.03
any, any kind of
vulnerable individual
00:22:00.06\00:22:02.17
would be treated better.
And, so that explains why
00:22:02.20\00:22:04.98
women have more rights in
a gospel influenced society.
00:22:05.01\00:22:08.37
I agree one hundred
percent. Yeah, yeah.
00:22:08.40\00:22:10.03
Now, when you, have
you dealt with any of your
00:22:10.06\00:22:13.77
clients, who were perhaps
in an abusive relationship
00:22:13.80\00:22:20.36
either verbally abusive
or just where a husband was
00:22:20.39\00:22:24.77
very
domineering and controlling.
00:22:24.80\00:22:26.63
Oh! Absolutely, but I
should, it's so this is
00:22:26.66\00:22:29.68
claimer that are, I
think I probably have as many
00:22:29.71\00:22:33.01
marriage situations where
the women is the abusive one.
00:22:33.66\00:22:37.39
Usually not
physically abusive or, or in
00:22:37.93\00:22:41.03
my practice never I
heard I known a physically
00:22:41.06\00:22:43.42
abusive wife, but verbally
and emotionally abusive.
00:22:43.45\00:22:46.24
It, it does happen. So,
it doesn't only go one way,
00:22:46.27\00:22:49.38
but women more often
as I read a moment to go
00:22:50.10\00:22:52.48
find themselves in
those abusive situations, so.
00:22:52.51\00:22:55.18
And, how do you
counsel someone because. Yeah.
00:22:55.21\00:22:57.38
I know, that there are
probably people who are
00:22:57.41\00:22:59.35
watching right now. Who
are in this situation and
00:22:59.38\00:23:03.22
they feel that and, and
we just want to understand,
00:23:03.25\00:23:05.66
God didn't pronounce
the curse on the women, he
00:23:06.02\00:23:08.21
just said these are the
consequences of your sin,
00:23:08.24\00:23:11.42
but he did intend it to
be a blessing that a women
00:23:11.89\00:23:16.63
would be protected by a husband.
00:23:16.66\00:23:18.33
And unfortunately the
abuses of men, mankind.
00:23:18.87\00:23:22.75
It has, it has turned
up otherwise. So, how would
00:23:23.25\00:23:26.55
you encourage
someone maybe who today is
00:23:26.58\00:23:30.39
suffering under that kind
of a domineering situation.
00:23:30.90\00:23:34.74
Okay, very, very good question.
00:23:34.77\00:23:36.79
I would just encourage
women to care for themselves
00:23:37.19\00:23:40.93
you know, you can't
prove self, selfishness
00:23:40.96\00:23:45.55
from the Bible that,
that selfishness was a good
00:23:45.58\00:23:47.86
thing you can't prove
that, pride is the good thing
00:23:47.89\00:23:49.74
but you can prove that
self care is an appropriate
00:23:50.04\00:23:52.58
and a good thing. As
adults, no one else is
00:23:52.61\00:23:55.62
gonna take care of us,
if we don't take care of
00:23:55.65\00:23:57.49
ourselves. So, it's, it
is a difficult question to
00:23:57.52\00:24:00.45
answer because some
women can survive apart
00:24:00.48\00:24:02.85
from you know, their
marriage that the maybe
00:24:02.88\00:24:05.30
financially, maybe
they have many children and
00:24:05.33\00:24:07.33
this really not gonna
work for them to live or maybe
00:24:07.36\00:24:10.22
things would have to get
a lot of worse for them to
00:24:10.25\00:24:11.80
live there lot of
questions that have to answer.
00:24:11.83\00:24:13.94
So, each individual
situation is different,
00:24:13.97\00:24:16.49
but I would say that if
a women is in an abusive
00:24:16.85\00:24:19.44
relationship, and she
has to aware with all to be
00:24:19.47\00:24:22.70
outside of that relationship
that she should definitely
00:24:22.73\00:24:25.78
physically separate
from a physically abusive man
00:24:25.81\00:24:29.02
and then emotionally
separate from an emotionally
00:24:29.05\00:24:31.82
abusive man and the same
thing is true of a husband
00:24:31.85\00:24:35.27
who is being
emotionally abuse by his wife.
00:24:35.30\00:24:37.46
Most often women
don't physically abuse their
00:24:37.49\00:24:39.32
husbands, but it does happen.
But, if there is an abuse,
00:24:39.35\00:24:42.73
there should be
separation that is just,
00:24:42.76\00:24:44.77
it is the best thing to
do for the individual that is
00:24:44.80\00:24:47.99
doing the abusing.
What is often confused in
00:24:48.02\00:24:51.44
minds of people
in abusive situation?
00:24:51.47\00:24:53.33
As they thing it's true
Christianity to submit to
00:24:53.36\00:24:55.84
that abuse. And, they
look at the cross of Jesus as
00:24:55.87\00:24:58.29
evidenced for that for
instance, but what they
00:24:58.32\00:25:01.17
don't remember is that
Jesus try to escape his,
00:25:01.20\00:25:04.46
his perpetrators
and he did successfully.
00:25:04.49\00:25:07.31
Escape them couple of
times, when they try to
00:25:07.34\00:25:09.26
stone him and then
once they try to thrown over
00:25:09.29\00:25:11.11
cliff and he escaped. It
wasn't until the cross that
00:25:11.14\00:25:13.98
he allow that abuse, but
it was in the context of him,
00:25:14.01\00:25:16.60
laying down his life for
the salvation of humanity.
00:25:16.92\00:25:19.33
So, he was
accomplishing a greater good.
00:25:19.36\00:25:21.54
What women in abusive
situations are doing much
00:25:22.02\00:25:25.30
of the time is, is not
accomplishing good at all,
00:25:25.33\00:25:27.45
but they were rather
enabling their husbands,
00:25:27.48\00:25:29.64
they need to issue
a warning call to that
00:25:29.67\00:25:32.29
individual. It would be
in his best interest for them
00:25:32.32\00:25:35.48
to separate from him to
give him that warning call.
00:25:35.51\00:25:38.32
So, so if they are going
to be truly unselfish thing,
00:25:38.35\00:25:41.10
they need to given
unmistakable message to
00:25:41.13\00:25:43.47
that person, who is
doing the abusing and separate
00:25:43.50\00:25:45.45
themselves from. To
let the person know,
00:25:45.48\00:25:47.06
that this is an
unacceptable behavior.
00:25:47.09\00:25:48.95
That's right. And
then of course she
00:25:48.98\00:25:50.24
would recommend getting counsel.
00:25:50.27\00:25:52.11
Amen. Amen, because.
Yeah. You know, you can't
00:25:52.14\00:25:56.14
expect, I had of relative
who is married to a very
00:25:56.17\00:26:01.11
abusive person. Yeah.
Who would put her in the
00:26:01.14\00:26:04.52
hospital a number
of times and each time
00:26:04.55\00:26:06.99
promised, it would
never happen again.
00:26:07.53\00:26:09.17
And I really saw her
suffer the battered woman
00:26:09.20\00:26:12.20
syndrome. I
didn't believe in it,
00:26:12.23\00:26:14.23
actually tell I saw
her and knew her so well.
00:26:14.26\00:26:17.11
So, well we are
almost out of time Jennifer.
00:26:17.69\00:26:20.99
It's just amazing. I want
to thank you for being here
00:26:21.02\00:26:24.38
with us again today.
And for bringing these,
00:26:24.41\00:26:26.74
this matter to our
attention, but I also want
00:26:26.77\00:26:30.60
to just to encourage
you to remember that when
00:26:30.63\00:26:35.66
God said this is
the way it was gonna be.
00:26:35.69\00:26:37.98
He also said that his
son came for the purpose of
00:26:38.55\00:26:43.22
doing away with sin.
And he does want to turn our
00:26:43.25\00:26:47.88
curses into blessings.
He wants to turn, into
00:26:47.91\00:26:51.73
laughing; he wants to turn
your ashes to the oil of joy.
00:26:51.76\00:26:56.18
And if you think about
the abundant life that God
00:26:56.66\00:27:00.61
has to offer and if you
look to him for all of the
00:27:00.64\00:27:04.74
answers. He will
give you the way out,
00:27:04.77\00:27:08.89
That's his promise to you. Amen.
00:27:09.27\00:27:11.05
So, Jennifer thank you,
so much again for coming.
00:27:11.50\00:27:14.30
And I hope you will
comeback and see us again.
00:27:14.66\00:27:17.65
Yeah. You know, I just
have to add one last thought.
00:27:17.68\00:27:19.95
Sure. I was thinking
about how God, when the
00:27:19.98\00:27:24.24
suffering and when
you're talking, but how the
00:27:24.50\00:27:25.96
suffering turns to
joy. When a woman who goes
00:27:25.99\00:27:29.15
through all these
pain birth or pain at child
00:27:29.18\00:27:33.13
birth, when they put
that little baby in her arms.
00:27:33.16\00:27:36.48
That I went through
twice. And that is when.
00:27:36.51\00:27:39.30
These all worthy, turn into joy.
00:27:39.33\00:27:41.38
Amen. And then they
don't even, I mean they
00:27:41.41\00:27:43.42
don't really worry about
having another baby later
00:27:43.45\00:27:45.83
on because they
know the joy of the Lord.
00:27:45.86\00:27:47.71
Amen. Amen, for all of
you at home, we pray that
00:27:47.74\00:27:52.04
you're in a healthy
relationship and it all
00:27:52.25\00:27:54.89
begins with having a
healthy relationship and
00:27:54.92\00:27:57.53
intimate relationship
with a Lord Jesus Christ.
00:27:57.56\00:28:00.20
Now, may the grace of
our Lord Jesus, the love
00:28:00.66\00:28:03.56
of the father and
the fellowship of the
00:28:03.59\00:28:05.46
Holy Spirit be with
you today and always.
00:28:05.49\00:28:09.07