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Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn. Welcome
again to Issues and Answers.
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Let me ask you a question.
How are your communication
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skills? Have you ever just
absolutely lost it and said
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something to somebody that you
really didn't mean to say only
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to see them react in such a
negative way that you yourself
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end up getting hurt. You know
we all have to be careful how we
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talk to one another don't we?
Sometimes just these feelings
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are bubbling up and they come
out before you can really kind
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of filter through them. But the
Bible instructs us. Jesus said
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in Luke 6:31 Do unto others as
you would have them do unto you.
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You've got to remember
when someone's coming at you and
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their feelings are raw and
they're saying something that
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perhaps you might misinterpret
that if you can be the calm one
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and do to them what you'd like
someone to do to you in that
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case then that's
good communication skills.
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Returning today we have a very
special couple with us. They are
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counselors and they are the
co-founders of CARE Consultants.
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That's C-A-R-E, stands
for Care and Education Renewal
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Consultants. So we want to
thank you both, Duane and Nancy.
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Thank you so much for coming
back. Andersen - I forgot your
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last name. I knew it but
everybody else might not.
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So you're coming to us from
Mesa, Arizona. You've only been
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retired from a pastorate since
May and you're into full time
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counseling now, but you've done
a lot of counseling in the past.
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I know that you all do a lot of
seminars, go to churches. Let me
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ask you a question up front.
If somebody were interested in
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coming to one of your seminars
how would they find you?
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Well first of all our website
is a way to get in touch with
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us. They can certainly do that.
Our phone number, address and
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everything is on the website.
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And your website is dna, which
is Duane and Nancy Andersen,
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dna, just think about your DNA.
dnasda for Seventh-day Adventist
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dot org. So dnasda. org. Good.
Okay. Now today we're going to
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be continuing something that
we've talked about in the past
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few programs, but if you messed
the others don't worry about
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that, because what we've been
talking about are communication
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skills and what we're going
to do today is just some role
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playing. This ought to be
fun because it will give you the
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opportunity to actually see
communication skills at work.
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To begin with why don't we recap
Duane why don't you talk about
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some of the most basic
communication skills, most
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important of which is listening.
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Exactly, yes. We want to make
sure that we facilitate people
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to go to a deeper level. So much
of our everyday interaction is
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on a surface level or shall
we say head, cognitive, compared
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with heart. But we've got a lot
of heart issues going on that
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to be addressed. Many times
people have nobody to talk to,
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nobody to unload their heart
to another human being. Yes, we
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unload it to the Lord but very
often we need another person to
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just be as if Christ was right
there listening to us to unload
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our ups and downs and hurts and
have somebody listen in a way
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that they use skills
like paraphrasing for example.
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Instead of blocking a person and
saying oh well I had something
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like that too and you know you
just got to tough it out. Well
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that's blocking the person.
That's not facilitating them to
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go to a deeper level. So the
first think you would do is just
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make sure you understand what
the person is saying. So you
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would paraphrase what they've
said. I usually let them talk
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for a while, maybe three, four,
five sentences, maybe even five
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minutes and do summary. Just
say okay now let me see if I
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understand you correctly.
Then I'll go over the key points
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that they're bringing out to
make sure that I'm on the right
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track, focusing completely on
them, not bringing myself into
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it at all. Because that is the
thing that the person is looking
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for. Who is going to listen
to me and what's going on in my
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life? Because hardly anybody
really does that. I mean, I was
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thinking in school. I worked in
the school system too for a long
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time and I thought well these
kids talk to each other. They
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don't need anybody to talk to.
But these kids said, they don't
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listen to me. These kids
block each other. And they would
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come down, of course, to the
counselor's office and I would
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have the opportunity to help
them go through some things.
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So yeah, paraphrase the
statements that they're making
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and then check in on their
feelings, like I'm wondering if
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you're feeling a little bit
anxious about this or tense or
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whatever type of feeling that
their talking brought up inside
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of me, because very often it'll
bring up the same thing inside
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of you as they're experiencing.
So check that out. I was
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wondering if you're feeling
tense, I was wondering...
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So a little boy comes to
you and says my mom has cancer.
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So that's a good thing to start
trying to check his feelings and
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let him talk it out, you know,
about I'm wondering are you
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feeling anxious about this, are
you worried about the treatment,
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you know, are you fearful that
your mom might die? I mean, do
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you go that far?
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Yeah, I would start out you see
with asking him well when did
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you hear about this? You know,
how long has it been. What was
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your reaction when you heard?
Have you heard anything lately?
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You know, just to kind of find
out where are they in this thing
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Okay. Then walk them through the
different stages. As they talk
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you can also get things to pick
up on that you can help them
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work through. Then definitely
do you think this is serious
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enough that your mom might die
or something? Did the hospital
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say anything about this. You
know just check it out because
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what's he thinking? I mean you
don't want to plant something in
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his mind that would scare
the little guy or something like
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that but again these skills
need to be practiced. We're not
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saying that using these skills
is going to turn somebody into
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a therapist or a clinical
psychologist or something
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like this. This is
just being a caring
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human being. Yes,
just being a caring human
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being. Do unto
others as you would like
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them to do... Exactly,
exactly so. Yeah people
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shouldn't get carried away with
the use of these but definitely
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we should use them just to try
and help people get through life
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easier, we're helping to
shoulder their burdens like the
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scripture says. We talked about
in one of our previous sessions
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about weeping with those who
weep and rejoicing with those
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who rejoice. So
this can be used in many,
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many instances in just everyday
life actually. But Nancy if you
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all wouldn't mind taking this on
as a role playing exercise. You
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mentioned to me earlier that you
had had a certain situation at
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school that actually you
felt like your life could be in
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danger or you were threatened.
Could you just share that a
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little bit and then what
I'd like you to do is after you
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explain that then I'd like
to see y'all role play. Or maybe
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just share it with him
like you're role playing now and
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let you walk her through how
she felt during this particular
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incident. Okay. I
had this really scary
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encounter that happened at work
today and I'm really feeling
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stressed out about it.
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Okay it was a bad situation
that happened at work and it was
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scary for you? Yes it
was. It had to do with
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this little boy that came in and
the teacher actually referred
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him to my office. He had these
slap marks right on his cheek.
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I mean it was very obvious
finger prints and he actually
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when the teacher asked him what
happened he said his mother had
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slapped him in the face. So they
sent him right down, of course,
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to the nurse's office and
I verified yeah there were
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definitely marks there.
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Okay, so you're saying the
teacher brought him in and these
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red marks were still on the side
of his cheek. Is that correct?
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Yes, you could still see the
fingerprint marks. So we had to
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I had to do a CPS referral and
they're supposed to assure that
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they don't release information
and that kind of thing. I've
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never had a problem with it
before and I gave my name and
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explained the situation.
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So you weren't really
feeling fearful at this point?
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No, no, it was just part of
my responsibility as the school
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nurse to reply to that. Yeah.
It wasn't a problem. It was a
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couple of days later though that
the father of this child came in
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It was at lunch time and I was
in my office and I didn't have
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any kids in the office and the
hall door was open and he just
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walked in. He didn't go in
through the main part of the
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office, he just walked into my
office and he started yelling at
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me and walking right up and
getting right in my face and
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shaking his hand and he was
furious, he was angry. He had a
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German accent and it was a
little bit difficult for me to
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understand his words. So I was
feeling really very threatened
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and wasn't sure just exactly
what to do and was trying to
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back out of the office because
the other door in my office
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opened into the main
receptionist area and the suite
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where the principal
was and other staff.
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Did you connect the two
situations together already as
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soon as you saw him that he was
the father of the boy that you'd
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reported? Not at
first. At first I didn't
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realize he was his dad but as he
got talking more and more then
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I realized oh this is his
father and you know somehow he's
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figured out that I was involved
in this call and he was very
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upset because we were
questioning his parental
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authority and that he
disciplines his child and he
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loves his children, he would
never hurt them and that this
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was completely inappropriate
for us to be doing this and so
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forth. So did you
just have some like
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immediate anxious
tense type feelings come up?
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Well yeah. At that time he was
physically invading my area and
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I just felt kind of paralyzed.
I didn't know what to do and I
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was just trying to back out
so that I could get into a place
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where there were other people.
I just felt like if there were
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other people around then he
wouldn't be able to... I wasn't
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sure that he wouldn't even just
hit me in the face or you know
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try to do something physical.
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So you were in an enclosed area
to begin with. That's what made
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you really nervous
about the situation.
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Yeah there was
no one else around.
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As you quickly thought about it
you were looking for an escape
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plan. Yeah I was.
But as it turned out
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he finally calmed down and
I tried to just confirm that I
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knew that his best interest
was for his children and that he
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really didn't want to do
anything that would be harmful
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and just tried to talk to
him in a calm manner. He finally
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de-escalated and then
eventually he left the office.
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So how are you feeling about
that right now? Like you just
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went through this today you're
saying and that talking to me
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tonight about this situation.
How are you feeling right now?
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Well, I still feel emotionally
kind of shaken up about the
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experience but I do want
to think about ways that I can
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minimize this kind of negative
behavior. I think that CPS has
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some sort of responsibility, but
on the other hand it's pretty
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easy to assume if you're
children don't have a lot of
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contact with other people that
it must be somebody at school
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and the school nurse would be
a likely candidate. So it may be
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something that I'll have to
deal within the future as well.
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So you were just trying to
think about what you could get
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out of it to benefit, any kind
of good that you can learn from
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it or something like that.
Is that what you're saying?
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Well I don't know. I guess
seeing it on the positive light,
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yes. It's not going to deter
me from doing what I need to do
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on behalf of the child because
even though it's intimidating
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for me I have to make sure
that the child's interest is...
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I mean who knows what's
going on in that family.
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So what you're doing here in
this role playing. I thought it
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might be a little bit more
obvious than that but I noticed
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a number of times as she was
beginning to tell you about the
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events of the day, then you
paraphrased, summed it up to let
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her know that you really were
listening and how did that make
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you feel as a wife when you
did come home and tell him this?
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Well it was very helpful
because it was really a very
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upsetting experience. So to have
him thoroughly listen, draw me
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out, allow me to talk about it,
allow me to share as long as I
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needed to. It was very helpful.
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I noticed as you were role
playing you didn't make any
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blocking statements like oh
well you knew you were in a safe
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environment, they had to
come through, he couldn't have
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carried a weapon onto school,
or you were within shouting
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distance. You didn't do anything
to minimize that, so that was
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very good. And I also noticed
that you began to draw out her
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feelings by asking questions,
you know, how did that make you
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feel. So you're saying this, you
were saying that, and you were
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trying to get at a deeper level.
I appreciated what you did there
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about... You took it almost from
something being negative, so you
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see this as a learning
experience, and you took it, you
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kind of put a positive twist
on it. I think that was very
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helpful to see. You know you
said at first people would know
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that you're practicing
but I could see where I would
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appreciate a conversation like
this even though you all teach
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this together. You're not
thinking well he's practicing on
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me. Yeah after you do this for a
while it becomes a part of you.
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He's letting me speak this and
not have to stuff or suppress
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the feelings that I
have. That's really excellent
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You know another reason that
I think we do the blocking is
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because we're scared about the
situation. I mean, I could be
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scared that something bad was
going to happen to my wife and
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so I can start saying things
that aren't helpful to her at
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all. I could say well why didn't
you do this and why didn't you
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do that. Well you knew the
principal was going to be back
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any minute so you should
be... You know and that's just
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covering up my fears and not
knowing what to do, but here I
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don't have to do that. I can see
just by helping her work this
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through this. She going to feel
better and I'm going to feel
00:16:55.18\00:16:58.55
better and it's nice when you
wife feels better because then
00:16:58.58\00:17:01.92
things go better.
00:17:01.95\00:17:03.28
That's true, that's true.
Excellent. Okay, if mama ain't
00:17:03.32\00:17:06.99
happy nobody's happy is an
old saying. But there was a time
00:17:07.02\00:17:10.83
when you were playing Tim the
Tool Man and she didn't want you
00:17:10.86\00:17:14.10
to play Tim the Tool Man. Now
let me set this up real quickly.
00:17:14.13\00:17:17.70
Basically you've got a house
that had a little powder room
00:17:17.73\00:17:21.24
in the hall. You wanted to put
in a shower. She didn't want it.
00:17:21.27\00:17:25.67
Esthetically she didn't think it
looked good but you're thinking
00:17:25.71\00:17:30.35
very utilitarian, pragmatic.
Something interesting happened.
00:17:30.38\00:17:35.08
He went ahead and did something
you flat said don't do this
00:17:35.12\00:17:39.12
shower. He did do it. You're in
the other room. You've told him
00:17:39.15\00:17:43.12
if you do this there's going
to be a big mess. You're not
00:17:43.16\00:17:46.59
qualified to do this and you
know that there's a flood in the
00:17:46.66\00:17:50.10
other room. You've already given
him you bottom line. You didn't
00:17:50.17\00:17:54.04
want this shower and now he's
gone ahead, cut through the wall
00:17:54.10\00:17:57.67
cut through the main line and
you're sitting there thinking
00:17:57.71\00:18:01.24
what? I just
could not hardly keep my
00:18:01.28\00:18:07.02
composure. Once he got the
towels and mopped up the floor
00:18:07.05\00:18:13.79
and I thought I can't go now and
interfere because he needs to
00:18:13.82\00:18:20.06
get the pipes together so we
don't have a flood out in the
00:18:20.10\00:18:26.27
the whole house or whatever. But
then later on I just said well
00:18:26.33\00:18:34.21
we talked about this and just
couldn't hardly contain myself.
00:18:34.24\00:18:39.78
But you did. You didn't really
get angry. I mean you didn't
00:18:39.81\00:18:45.32
express anger toward him.
00:18:45.35\00:18:48.29
I was angry inside but I
didn't want to yell or whatever
00:18:48.32\00:18:52.89
because it doesn't... it's not
productive. You know when you
00:18:52.93\00:18:57.93
have conflict you don't resolve
anything. The best way to learn
00:18:57.97\00:19:04.21
is by experience and sometimes
you both learn the lesson and
00:19:04.24\00:19:09.11
you may feel like you didn't
have to learn it this way but
00:19:09.14\00:19:14.02
for your partner's, you
husband's benefit or for your
00:19:14.05\00:19:17.05
benefit you do have to
learn the lesson that way.
00:19:17.09\00:19:20.02
So am I understanding you
correctly that it was basically
00:19:20.06\00:19:24.66
that you had a bottom line,
no shower. He had a bottom line,
00:19:24.69\00:19:28.46
we're going to do the shower.
And in this instance you decided
00:19:28.50\00:19:32.27
okay he's got to learn by
experience. I can't always have
00:19:32.30\00:19:38.07
my way. We're at a stalemate
so he's made his own little mess
00:19:38.11\00:19:43.85
we're going to let him clean
it up. There's no use of me
00:19:43.88\00:19:46.31
shouting because it was just
as important to him to have a
00:19:46.38\00:19:49.72
shower and it was to you not
to have a shower. So there was a
00:19:49.75\00:19:53.36
communication that was going on
there and the communication was
00:19:53.42\00:19:56.99
you've got as much right
and you agree to disagree and I
00:19:57.03\00:20:02.30
guess she let you
clean up the mess. Oh yes.
00:20:02.33\00:20:05.90
You know part of the
communication process, Shelley,
00:20:05.93\00:20:08.57
is common courtesy and courtesy
in communicating says that my
00:20:08.60\00:20:14.21
needs are as
important as your needs.
00:20:14.24\00:20:19.08
Let me say that and rephrase
that because I think you meant
00:20:19.11\00:20:21.42
to say courtesy is saying your
needs are as important as mine.
00:20:21.48\00:20:23.75
Right, that's what I wanted
to say. So that our mutual
00:20:23.79\00:20:30.59
understanding or our
relationship will benefit by
00:20:30.63\00:20:33.56
my having the mutual respect and
that your needs and my needs can
00:20:33.60\00:20:39.30
be met and we're going to work
this out until we get it solved.
00:20:39.33\00:20:44.97
And even though you have a
different opinion, a different
00:20:45.01\00:20:49.11
way of reacting, a different
pathway to take to solve the
00:20:49.14\00:20:53.21
problem at the
end it will work out.
00:20:53.25\00:20:57.79
So this was kind of a milestone
for you all wasn't it not to sit
00:20:57.82\00:21:02.09
and really argue it out and
haggle over these things and I
00:21:02.12\00:21:06.33
understand, Nancy, tell me
if this is true. A little birdie
00:21:06.36\00:21:10.50
told me that esthetically it
turned out to look pretty good.
00:21:10.53\00:21:14.04
It did look much nicer than
I thought it was going to look.
00:21:14.07\00:21:17.54
You can still get in the
bathroom and you can shut the
00:21:17.57\00:21:23.01
door and you can wash your
hands It turned out very nice.
00:21:23.04\00:21:28.35
Did Tim the Tool Man say arrrg?
That's great. But you know I
00:21:28.38\00:21:32.62
like your point there because
I think there comes a time in
00:21:32.65\00:21:37.16
every marriage if you can reach
that point and I know we did
00:21:37.19\00:21:41.50
early on. I used to pray before
we got married. I said Oh Lord
00:21:41.53\00:21:45.93
make me a scriptural wife. I
prayed so hard for that. I also
00:21:45.97\00:21:50.97
prayed when we first got married
and said Lord pleeez put a
00:21:51.01\00:21:55.61
bridle on my tongue. Put a guard
at the door post of my mouth.
00:21:55.64\00:22:00.22
I remember there were a few
times where, especially when
00:22:00.25\00:22:04.82
you're newlyweds, that something
would come up and I would think
00:22:04.85\00:22:08.49
no we've discussed it all the
way through and he was bent on
00:22:08.52\00:22:12.13
doing something and you
just have to say well okay. I'm
00:22:12.16\00:22:17.63
supposed to be the submissive
wife there, he's supposed to be
00:22:17.67\00:22:19.97
the tie breaker. He'd go
do something and it would be
00:22:20.00\00:22:21.90
exactly what I said and you're
so tempted to say I told you so.
00:22:21.94\00:22:25.44
And you just had to put that
guard at the doorpost of your
00:22:25.47\00:22:30.25
mouth. Let him learn by
experience. I'm sure he's done
00:22:30.28\00:22:35.15
that with me. But the
interesting thing is even though
00:22:35.18\00:22:40.02
we didn't argue over it and
we didn't really discuss it much
00:22:40.06\00:22:45.46
I found out years later he knew
all, he knew what I was keeping
00:22:45.49\00:22:50.07
back. You know he appreciated
those things. So that's part of
00:22:50.10\00:22:54.17
communication is letting someone
else be who they are as well.
00:22:54.20\00:22:58.27
I appreciated that too. She
could have got me as soon as
00:22:58.31\00:23:01.41
that pipe broke and water went
all over the place she could
00:23:01.44\00:23:04.91
have come in here and really
given me a lecture. I told you
00:23:04.95\00:23:08.38
this was going to happen and you
went ahead anyway. You just had
00:23:08.42\00:23:10.95
to have your way didn't you. I
mean you know we could have got
00:23:10.99\00:23:14.26
into that. When our relationship
is cemented prior to that and
00:23:14.29\00:23:18.13
like she was saying we've had
the experience before. We know
00:23:18.16\00:23:21.73
when we come to these kinds
of situations there's no use
00:23:21.76\00:23:25.23
letting them go in that negative
direction. It's not going to be
00:23:25.27\00:23:28.94
productive for either.
00:23:28.97\00:23:30.71
Yeah, yeah, that's good, that's
good. Now give us, we only have
00:23:30.74\00:23:34.11
just a few minutes left. In
my mind I'm thinking can you do
00:23:34.14\00:23:38.11
like a parent/child role
play real quick and show how a
00:23:38.15\00:23:41.22
parent might handle a
child that's having a problem.
00:23:41.28\00:23:44.29
Okay. What was the idea of you
crawling out of your window last
00:23:44.35\00:23:52.09
night and not coming back
till 2 o'clock in the morning.
00:23:52.13\00:23:55.46
Well you know don't worry about
it, Dad. It wasn't a big deal.
00:23:55.50\00:23:59.70
Me and my friend, we just
wanted to go out and we were
00:23:59.73\00:24:03.57
just take a walk and it was
a moon light night and there's
00:24:03.61\00:24:07.38
some of us going to get together
and I knew you wouldn't give me
00:24:07.41\00:24:09.41
permission so I just... So
you just went ahead anyway.
00:24:09.44\00:24:12.01
Is that it? Yeah,
yeah, I did. I went anyway
00:24:12.05\00:24:14.08
Well listen, I don't approve
of that at all and from now on
00:24:14.12\00:24:17.45
you're grounded
for the next month.
00:24:17.49\00:24:19.75
Well that's not fair. How
can you ground me? We didn't do
00:24:19.79\00:24:22.86
anything. I was with my
friends. They can be a witness.
00:24:22.89\00:24:25.89
You were the one that made the
choice. You went out. Now you've
00:24:25.96\00:24:28.76
got to pay for it.
00:24:28.80\00:24:30.13
All right, now. Let's
take it and use really good
00:24:30.17\00:24:32.07
communication skills on
this. show us how it would be
00:24:32.10\00:24:34.64
different. All righty.
00:24:34.67\00:24:36.00
All right. I noticed last
night that you've been gone out
00:24:36.04\00:24:38.91
of your bedroom window and
didn't come back till 2 in the
00:24:38.94\00:24:41.91
morning and I was wondering
what was going on. Can you share
00:24:41.94\00:24:44.85
that with me? Well
it was a moonlit night,
00:24:44.88\00:24:49.35
a full moon last night, and
we just wanted to go out. It's
00:24:49.38\00:24:52.72
beautiful weather and we
just wanted to go out. Two of my
00:24:52.75\00:24:56.06
girlfriends were just going to
go out for walk, going to hang
00:24:56.09\00:25:01.46
out and talk and, you know, just
have some freedom, no big deal.
00:25:01.50\00:25:06.03
So you went out knowing that
I don't approve of it and that's
00:25:06.07\00:25:09.80
why you went out the window
because you know I wouldn't give
00:25:09.84\00:25:13.54
you permission. Is that correct?
00:25:13.58\00:25:14.91
Well, yes. I knew you wouldn't
let me go. I knew you wouldn't
00:25:14.94\00:25:17.71
give me permission so I
had to crawl out the window.
00:25:17.75\00:25:19.95
So in spending time with your
friends you really enjoyed that.
00:25:20.02\00:25:23.45
But let me as you this question.
How do you feel about our
00:25:23.49\00:25:26.89
relationship and you're going
out of the window? How do you
00:25:26.92\00:25:30.29
feel that's
affecting our relationship?
00:25:30.33\00:25:33.83
Well I do feel guilty because I
was like I knew that I shouldn't
00:25:33.86\00:25:39.23
be doing this so I did feel kind
of guilty when I was doing it.
00:25:39.30\00:25:43.37
I felt bad and I really didn't
enjoy the experience with my
00:25:43.41\00:25:47.44
friends as much as I
would have otherwise.
00:25:47.48\00:25:48.81
Okay. So give me your
understanding of what should be
00:25:50.91\00:25:54.98
done about this.
00:25:55.02\00:25:56.35
Well I think that probably I
need to check with you and ask
00:25:56.38\00:26:02.76
let you know what we wanted
to do and I do believe that you
00:26:02.79\00:26:10.37
love me and you want my
best interest. And if you can
00:26:10.40\00:26:12.50
understand how important it
is for me to be with my friends
00:26:12.53\00:26:14.97
that maybe we can...
Work something out so that you
00:26:15.00\00:26:18.37
can be with your friends and you
won't have to go out the window.
00:26:18.44\00:26:21.04
Okay, well that
sounds good to me.
00:26:21.08\00:26:22.54
Boy are you a lenient parent.
You're grounded young lady!
00:26:22.58\00:26:27.62
You but I would say too we need
to talk about this a little more
00:26:27.65\00:26:32.62
Talk about this a little more.
Well but I can see that it's
00:26:32.65\00:26:36.09
something that instead of
putting a child on the defense
00:26:36.12\00:26:40.03
and making them think you're
not really listening to me. If
00:26:40.10\00:26:43.80
you start drawing out what's
important. You know they say
00:26:43.83\00:26:47.57
kids really do want boundaries
so lot of times that just
00:26:47.60\00:26:50.84
showing that kind of interest.
You know what? Our time is
00:26:50.91\00:26:54.44
already all gone. I want to
thank you so much for coming.
00:26:54.51\00:26:58.58
Thank you for sharing all
of these wonderful things about
00:26:58.61\00:27:02.35
communicating and we hope you'll
come back and see us again.
00:27:02.38\00:27:06.92
Our guests today have been Duane
and Nancy Andersen and they've
00:27:06.96\00:27:12.29
been teaching us to do active
listening to really be able to
00:27:12.33\00:27:17.63
repeat and paraphrase the
main points of someone else's
00:27:17.67\00:27:20.10
conversation to learn how to
use questions that actually get
00:27:20.14\00:27:26.88
somebody going into a deeper
level. Not to use blocking
00:27:26.91\00:27:31.51
statements but to develop a
closer relationship through more
00:27:31.55\00:27:34.68
effective communication. I hope
you've enjoyed this. It's been
00:27:34.72\00:27:38.42
fun for us here. I hope you
learned something. I know I have
00:27:38.45\00:27:42.32
So for those of you at home we
just pray that the grace of our
00:27:42.36\00:27:45.69
Lord Jesus Christ, the love
of the Father and the fellowship
00:27:45.73\00:27:49.06
of the Holy Spirit will
be with you today and always.
00:27:49.10\00:27:52.20
Thanks for joining us.
00:27:52.23\00:27:54.67