Hello, friends and welcome
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to Issues and
Answers here on 3ABN.
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So glad that you
chosen to join us
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for another
very important issue.
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Many of you today
are looking forward
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to the coming of the Lord
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but not aware
exactly how to get ready
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for the coming of the Lord.
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Well, we have a
wonderful guest today
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Carol Zarska
that's going to walk us
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through a wonderful encounter
she has had with the Lord
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that has changed her
life in a wonderful way.
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And The Ministry
of Reconciliation
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is very much a
part of this program.
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So, stay tuned, sit down
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for this "Issues
and Answers" program.
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My name is John Lomacang
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and I'm so glad to be able
to be a part of this program.
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And I know that
we are going to learn
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something about the Lord
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that will
strengthen our walk with Him.
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Let's meet our
guest at this time.
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Good to have you here, Carol.
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Glad to be here, John.
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Yeah, well, as we
had a chance to visit
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before our program,
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it's fascinating to
see how the Lord leads us
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from where He finds
us to where we are today.
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And I'm particularly
excited about the program today.
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We're talking about
communicating with God
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and just for our
viewers and our listeners
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who may have not met you before,
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just give us a brief
background about yourself.
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Well, I have been a
devoted follower of Jesus
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ever since I was a child.
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But as I grew into adulthood,
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God began to move
me toward ministry
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and eventually I ended up
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becoming a
public speaker in 1984
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for American Cassette Ministries
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and we now have the name
American Christian Ministries
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because we are in CDs now.
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But these topics that
I'll be talking about today
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have been going around the world
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through American
Cassette Ministries
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but now I have some
very exciting things
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I think to share
about the Sanctuary
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and relationships
with God that help us
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to understand how to be
more prepared in our families
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and in our
churches and in the world
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as we associate with people
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so we can be
ready for Jesus' coming.
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You know, what's amazing about,
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we talk about getting
ready for the coming of the Lord
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but we cannot
hesitate to look back
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on the very beginning
of this entrance of sin
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and why all we generalize
it as man fell into sin.
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We don't often say man
broke his communication with God
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and so I'm excited about
the way you put that together
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as relationship
with communication.
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You just build on that for us.
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Well, when I first began
the ministry back in 1984,
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I was doing a series
called The Sanctuary Prayer.
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God had led me
in my study to see
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that the
Sanctuary is experiential.
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Before that I kind
of thought the Sanctuary
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was more like
colors and furniture
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and various things
that were interesting
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and that
pointing forward to Jesus
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and that was fascinating
and rewarding to study.
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But as I began to explore
more about Jesus mentioning
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or saying that the
- that His Sanctuary
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or the temple is a place
of prayer for all people,
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and so I began to
dialogue with the Lord and say,
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"How is it a place of
prayer for all people.
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How is that place of
prayer for me and for us
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of our generation
since we don't even have
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a Sanctuary here on
this earth any more?"
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And so as I
studied I began to see
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God leading me in the
symbols of the Sanctuary,
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majorly, the seven
symbols in the Sanctuary
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as being a model for prayer.
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So for three and a half years
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that's all I dealt with
was the Sanctuary prayer
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as it had to do with
the relationship with God,
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restored relationship with Him.
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And so the
Sanctuary is a wonderful word
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picture of the
Lord's work in our behalf
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from the outer
court to the inner court
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to the Holy Place,
to the most Holy Place.
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And as you just pointed out
all the articles of furniture
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have a symbolic meaning
that carries over into a--
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if I could use a
phrase, antitypical meaning
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although they are
not being used today
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by the earthly high priest,
Jesus is still our high priest.
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Yes.
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And it's
interesting you point out prayer
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because right
before the most Holy Place
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is the altar of incense,
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symbolizing the prayers
of the saints continuing
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to rise before the Lord.
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Yes. Yes.
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Which is so much
about our communication.
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But in your discovery of that,
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we discover that
in the Garden of Eden,
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communication was broken
between God and Adam and Eve.
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Now how is the Lord seeking
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to restore
communication in the Sanctuary?
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Well, when Eve
listened to another voice,
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she listened to the tempter.
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Before that God would
come everyday evidently
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from all that we can
tell in the cool of the day
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and walk in the garden
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and His children
ran quickly to Him
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and I'm sure they had
wonderful communication
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about things that had
happened during the day
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and things they wanted
to talk over with God and--
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and so that
communication was open and free,
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they could talk to Him
face to face about anything
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and it was joyful.
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But because they listened
to the voice of the tempter
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who was the enemy of God,
the enemy of Jesus' especially
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and who was trying to
take the whole universe down
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and use Adam and Eve for that
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and he was only
allowed to be in one tree,
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that tree of course was called
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the tree of
knowledge of good and evil.
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And so when Eve
and eventually Adam
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listened to that
tempter, what happened was that
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they now heard
not just good from God
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but they also heard
the voice of the enemy
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so they were, it was
like a Babylon or confusion
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because the
tempter could speak to them
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and God still
would speak to them
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but they began to find it
much more difficult to know
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which voice they were hearing
and sin continued to escalate
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because of the problems of
hearing more than one voice
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and many following
just the voice of evil
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and until of course God
had to destroy the world
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with the flood and
start all over again so that--
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that
communication with the evil one
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became so paramount
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that it's been destructive
ever since that time.
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And God wants to
put that back together
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so we don't listen to the
voice of the enemy anymore.
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You know, when I
used to talk about
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that I never
thought about it that way.
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That's very interesting
and as a pastor you know,
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we always look at
different ways of looking
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at the Sanctuary.
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But truly when the
Lord came to Adam and Eve
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in the garden and Adam said,
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"I heard your voice as
you were walking in the garden
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in the cool of the
day and I hid myself.
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Once again, you see
clearly there that he had heard
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the voice of God
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so he recognized
the voice of God,
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but what had caused
them to in the predicament
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that they were in was Eve had
listened to the voice of Satan
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and Adam went into
that with his eyes wide open
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even though Eve was deceived.
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So-- so the Lord,
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the plan was he came after us
to re-establish communication.
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Right.
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And he has been
doing that ever since.
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He's been pursuing us as a lover
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because we are a wayward child.
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We have gone far from Him
and if He didn't pursue us,
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we would listen only to
the voice of the tempter.
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But because God never gives
up and He's always seeking ways
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to restore us
back to communication.
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We can be so
grateful that God pursues
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until He wins us back.
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That's the whole
story of redemption
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from the
beginning until right now
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and of course looking
forward to the final redemption
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being in heaven
and being safe again.
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But if we want to
look just at the Sanctuary
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and how that restores us back,
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I want to go back to the
story of the children of Israel.
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When they came out of Egypt,
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God said He wanted
to take them as His own
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and take them to a place
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where they didn't
have to be slaves anymore
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and they didn't
have to be in a situation
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where it made them
very difficult for them
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to be obedient to
Him and to His Laws.
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And so He took them out of Egypt
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and they went
across the desert four ways
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and then they
camped at Mount Sinai.
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And it's very
interesting that God invited
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the whole Israelite nation
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to be a nation
of priests and kings
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which means that
he wanted all of them
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to be able to talk
with him personally.
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He wanted to restore
that because Abraham,
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Isaac and Jacob did know God.
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They did talk with Him.
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They did know His voice
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and Abraham was said the
he was a "Friend of God."
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God wanted to have
someone to share with
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and Abraham was that man.
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That's what a man of faith
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and man of
communication with God.
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But we know what happened
to the Israelite nation,
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I mean they were in--
in that land of slavery
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for so long for
hundreds of years,
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420 I think,
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that they lost the
impetus of their background
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of being friends with God.
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And so when in-- in-
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when in Exodus God said to them,
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"I want to show you how
you can be my friend again
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and hear my voice and not die,
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and you'll be for me
a kingdom of priest."
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So they were
told to how to prepare
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for that meeting with God.
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They were told to
cleanse themselves
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and their tents and--
and to basically prepare
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the way the priest
in the Sanctuary did.
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So they did that.
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But then when God
came down on Mount Sinai,
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and there was
thunder and lightning
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and the voice of God rang
throughout that whole desert.
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They were trembling.
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Even Moses, the
friend of God was trembling.
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It was so powerful
and they could see Him,
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they could hear Him and they--
when it was all over they said,
00:11:05.32\00:11:09.35
they came to
Moses and they said,
00:11:09.38\00:11:11.26
"Do not have God
speak to us anymore.
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They were so terrified.
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And Moses said, "But--
00:11:16.98\00:11:18.40
but God wants just
for you to be a friend
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and He just did that so
that you would understand
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how He wants to
cleanse you of sin
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and keep you from sinning
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because His voice
keeps you from sinning."
00:11:27.83\00:11:30.26
And they said, "That's fine,
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maybe you want to
do that but not us.
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Speak to us yourself
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but don't have God
speak to us anymore."
00:11:37.93\00:11:40.48
That was very sad
when they turned down
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that opportunity to
know God face to face.
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And I often say that the -
when we don't know someone,
00:11:47.35\00:11:50.76
it leads to greater fear.
00:11:50.79\00:11:52.87
That's why we are
told in John 17:3,
00:11:52.90\00:11:54.77
"And this is life
eternal that you know
00:11:54.80\00:11:58.01
the true God, and
the Jesus, whom He sent."
00:11:58.04\00:12:00.77
So they thought the voice of God
00:12:00.80\00:12:02.91
was a stern voice
rather than the loving voice
00:12:02.94\00:12:07.17
and it led them, I think
you back to the Garden of Eden
00:12:07.20\00:12:10.31
and you'll see that
Adam and Eve hid themselves.
00:12:10.34\00:12:13.47
Yes.
00:12:13.50\00:12:14.53
The one they
should've been afraid of,
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they didn't
hide themselves from.
00:12:15.64\00:12:16.83
But the one that
loved them endlessly,
00:12:16.86\00:12:19.38
was the one that--
00:12:19.41\00:12:20.44
And I could
imagine to some degree
00:12:20.47\00:12:21.62
that they had
somewhat of the depression
00:12:21.65\00:12:24.86
which usually
comes as a result of us
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not hearing and being in
tune with the real voice of God.
00:12:27.41\00:12:30.15
Exactly,
absolutely and in saying
00:12:30.18\00:12:34.57
that it reminds me that
before I get into my own story
00:12:34.60\00:12:39.59
about recovery from depression,
00:12:39.62\00:12:43.22
I want to point out
that God did say then,
00:12:43.25\00:12:47.33
if they won't be--
00:12:47.36\00:12:48.91
if they won't talk to
me face to face personally,
00:12:48.94\00:12:52.99
then let them
make me a Sanctuary
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that I can dwell among
them and then He chose certain--
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the certain
tribe, of course Levi
00:12:58.30\00:13:00.09
and the Levites
to be those priests
00:13:00.12\00:13:02.24
that would go before Him and
be willing to cleanse themselves
00:13:02.27\00:13:05.39
before going in and to offer
their sacrifices and so forth.
00:13:05.42\00:13:09.00
So they were ready to
go in before the Lord.
00:13:09.03\00:13:12.38
But God in His most
awesome way in that Sanctuary,
00:13:12.41\00:13:19.68
instead of them
like they had heard
00:13:19.71\00:13:23.27
the voice of God on
Sinai, He veiled that.
00:13:23.30\00:13:27.18
He veiled it with his-
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with the veils
around the Sanctuary,
00:13:28.46\00:13:30.07
the curtains and so forth
00:13:30.10\00:13:31.26
so they didn't
have to see His glory.
00:13:31.29\00:13:34.28
They weren't--
because He did recognize
00:13:34.31\00:13:36.53
that because of their sin
they were choosing not to,
00:13:36.56\00:13:39.32
and so that glory had to be
00:13:39.35\00:13:41.59
veiled with Him in
the most Holy Place.
00:13:41.62\00:13:44.15
But the priests as they went in
00:13:44.18\00:13:46.92
went through a series of rituals
00:13:46.95\00:13:51.87
which brought them all the way
in to the Sanctuary eventually.
00:13:51.90\00:13:55.71
And so that--
00:13:55.74\00:13:57.80
that seven step
Sanctuary ritual,
00:13:57.83\00:14:02.53
if we unlock that we
will see the pathway back
00:14:02.56\00:14:07.07
to being
intimate with God again.
00:14:07.10\00:14:09.89
I like the way you said that
there's a seven step process.
00:14:09.92\00:14:13.41
You're also a family
counselor, am I correct?
00:14:13.44\00:14:15.43
That's true. Yes.
00:14:15.46\00:14:16.53
And I've been
involved in marriage counseling
00:14:16.56\00:14:18.03
for number of years also
00:14:18.06\00:14:19.61
and we could see
that one of the keys
00:14:19.64\00:14:22.52
to a broken relationship
00:14:22.55\00:14:24.52
is an interrupted communication.
00:14:24.55\00:14:26.70
Oh, yes.
00:14:26.73\00:14:27.85
It must be the foundation
of all broken relationships.
00:14:27.88\00:14:31.52
You could see it impacts almost
every thing in a relationship.
00:14:31.55\00:14:34.02
Not just the intimacy
00:14:34.05\00:14:36.07
as we talked about here with God
00:14:36.10\00:14:37.94
and intimacy is
much broader than
00:14:37.97\00:14:39.98
what we determine in society
as the physical relationship.
00:14:40.01\00:14:42.65
Intimacy is so much
more grandeur than that
00:14:42.68\00:14:46.03
because God's love is in it.
00:14:46.06\00:14:47.14
God pay unconditional love.
00:14:47.17\00:14:49.45
But you alluded a
moment ago to as you--
00:14:49.48\00:14:52.93
as you responded
to the call of God
00:14:52.96\00:14:55.15
and you got involved
in ministry with the Lord
00:14:55.18\00:14:58.03
and at some point you had a bout
00:14:58.06\00:15:00.48
with depression yourself.
00:15:00.51\00:15:01.93
Tell us about that?
00:15:01.96\00:15:03.00
Actually, that
was only 10 years ago,
00:15:03.03\00:15:07.81
which puts
several, quite a few years
00:15:07.84\00:15:11.32
if you look back to
84 until 10 years ago,
00:15:11.35\00:15:16.91
that was a long
time when I was teaching
00:15:16.94\00:15:20.16
the Sanctuary and the
steps in the Sanctuary
00:15:20.19\00:15:23.28
begin with "Come into
His courts with Praise."
00:15:23.31\00:15:25.73
That's right.
00:15:25.76\00:15:26.83
"Come into His
Presence with Praise."
00:15:26.86\00:15:29.12
"And Praise and
Thanksgiving." Yes.
00:15:29.15\00:15:31.72
Especially Psalms 100 tells us
00:15:31.75\00:15:34.25
that and of course
all throughout scripture.
00:15:34.28\00:15:36.37
And so I thought that
all over the United States
00:15:36.40\00:15:41.21
and different parts of the world
00:15:41.24\00:15:42.37
about coming into
His courts with praise.
00:15:42.40\00:15:44.59
How important that is because,
00:15:44.62\00:15:47.35
if we come in, in
any other frame of mind,
00:15:47.38\00:15:51.01
if we come in with a
sad fear down countenance
00:15:51.04\00:15:58.15
and thinking, "Oh,
I'm such a wretch."
00:15:58.18\00:16:00.96
Or we come in with
depression and so forth.
00:16:00.99\00:16:04.57
We try to come
into the courts of God.
00:16:04.60\00:16:08.09
He is still there but
our brain is on our selves
00:16:08.12\00:16:12.44
or on our problems.
00:16:12.47\00:16:13.88
And so we really
can't communicate with God
00:16:13.91\00:16:16.82
because our own
brains are shut off.
00:16:16.85\00:16:19.46
He never leaves
us or forsakes us.
00:16:19.49\00:16:21.39
That's right.
00:16:21.42\00:16:22.45
But when we have an
attitude of downcast and fear,
00:16:22.48\00:16:28.17
resentment, bitterness,
00:16:28.20\00:16:29.58
all these
things that still rings
00:16:29.61\00:16:30.96
into our minds and our hearts.
00:16:30.99\00:16:32.88
We're on the way to
emotional problems big time.
00:16:32.91\00:16:37.01
And that
eventually did happen to me.
00:16:37.04\00:16:40.78
I never dreamed that it would
00:16:40.81\00:16:42.89
but before this
what actually happened,
00:16:42.92\00:16:46.70
I was beginning to have
a little bit of depression
00:16:46.73\00:16:53.69
because of a lot of
stress in my life at the time.
00:16:53.72\00:16:57.82
In my work, in my--
trying to help people,
00:16:57.85\00:17:01.81
I began to get so
involved with that,
00:17:01.84\00:17:07.07
that I wasn't
communicating with God
00:17:07.10\00:17:09.49
on everything as
well as I had been.
00:17:09.52\00:17:11.70
Overextending yourself.
00:17:11.73\00:17:13.20
Overextending myself.
00:17:13.23\00:17:15.06
That is true.
00:17:15.09\00:17:16.32
And so as I saw myself slipping,
00:17:16.35\00:17:21.12
I attended some meetings
00:17:21.15\00:17:24.09
of a friend of
mine Carol Shumake
00:17:24.12\00:17:25.71
and I was
sitting in the audience
00:17:25.74\00:17:28.94
and she asked us to get
down and pray and beseech to
00:17:28.97\00:17:34.62
for whatever we
had on our hearts
00:17:34.65\00:17:36.08
and I said to the Lord,
00:17:36.11\00:17:38.65
"Lord, I don't seem to be
able to serve You the same way.
00:17:38.68\00:17:42.19
I'm not a
Spirit-filled as I was.
00:17:42.22\00:17:43.70
I'm concerned about it."
00:17:43.73\00:17:46.04
And I said, is there anything
left for me to do for You.
00:17:46.07\00:17:49.96
And while I was
kneeling there in that meeting,
00:17:49.99\00:17:52.41
I heard the voice
of the Holy Spirit
00:17:52.44\00:17:54.77
speak to my mind and he said,
00:17:54.80\00:17:57.17
"I am sending you into the
very heart of the enemy's camp
00:17:57.20\00:18:02.81
to learn how to
bring people back.
00:18:02.84\00:18:05.80
Well, I thought
that was exciting to me
00:18:05.83\00:18:07.40
because I always wanted to
work for the Lord and I thought,
00:18:07.43\00:18:10.32
"Oh, wow, I'm going to
do something for the Lord
00:18:10.35\00:18:12.90
that will help people come
out of their enemy's camp."
00:18:12.93\00:18:15.47
But at the same
time not knowing how--
00:18:15.50\00:18:17.00
how amazing a challenge that is.
00:18:17.03\00:18:19.56
I would say that.
00:18:19.59\00:18:20.62
Right.
00:18:20.65\00:18:21.68
And I did not know
00:18:21.71\00:18:23.09
that the heart of the
enemy's camp is depression.
00:18:23.12\00:18:26.24
Clinical depression even,
00:18:26.27\00:18:28.48
because I went into the
deepest levels of depression.
00:18:28.51\00:18:32.15
But back to the pathway down
00:18:32.18\00:18:37.25
after I was under a lot of
stress for quite a long time
00:18:37.28\00:18:42.57
because of my work,
then I got physically ill.
00:18:42.60\00:18:47.85
I got pneumonia and other pain,
00:18:47.88\00:18:52.27
chronic pain and
a number of things
00:18:52.30\00:18:54.90
and it began to break me down.
00:18:54.93\00:18:56.34
So I was mentally and
emotionally being bombarded
00:18:56.37\00:19:00.67
and then physically.
00:19:00.70\00:19:02.41
And while I was physically down,
00:19:02.44\00:19:05.97
then the clinical
depression began to set in.
00:19:06.00\00:19:10.28
And to fast
forward a little bit.
00:19:10.31\00:19:14.83
As the months went by
00:19:14.86\00:19:16.31
and I went deeper and
deeper into this depression.
00:19:16.34\00:19:19.64
I got to the place
00:19:19.67\00:19:20.85
where I could no
longer decide anything.
00:19:20.88\00:19:23.99
I couldn't decide
to eat or take a bath.
00:19:24.02\00:19:29.11
My ability to make
decisions was completely gone.
00:19:29.14\00:19:35.17
All I could do was
just sit in a chair.
00:19:35.20\00:19:36.89
I would sit in
the chair for days.
00:19:36.92\00:19:38.33
I would sleep in
the chair all of sudden
00:19:38.36\00:19:39.66
because I couldn't decide
00:19:39.69\00:19:40.72
whether I should get up
and do something or not.
00:19:40.75\00:19:43.34
So there was
somewhat of a short circuiting
00:19:43.37\00:19:45.52
there at that.
00:19:45.55\00:19:47.07
Not only
depression but like a block.
00:19:47.10\00:19:49.33
Totally, totally blocked
00:19:49.36\00:19:51.63
and all I could think about
was darkness and depression
00:19:51.66\00:19:56.39
and then I began to hear
the voices of the evil one
00:19:56.42\00:20:01.24
and you know,
sometimes when people are--
00:20:01.27\00:20:04.43
have mental illness,
00:20:04.46\00:20:05.62
one of the questions they ask
them is "Do you hear voices?"
00:20:05.65\00:20:10.82
And I was like, "What is that?"
00:20:10.85\00:20:13.11
I could never imagine,
00:20:13.14\00:20:14.31
"What do you mean,
do you hear voices?"
00:20:14.34\00:20:16.62
I heard voices and those
voices told me, "You are lost."
00:20:16.65\00:20:21.65
You are - "See
what you have done,
00:20:21.68\00:20:24.38
you are not going to be
saved, you are already lost.
00:20:24.41\00:20:27.58
Your probation has closed."
00:20:27.61\00:20:29.35
All and all of
these and also voices
00:20:29.38\00:20:32.97
that were telling me they
were going to destroy my family,
00:20:33.00\00:20:35.05
burn my house down
00:20:35.08\00:20:36.46
and this was the
voice of the evil one
00:20:36.49\00:20:38.81
I really went into the
very heart of the enemy's camp.
00:20:38.84\00:20:42.01
When I heard his voice
00:20:42.04\00:20:43.09
and I didn't hear
God's voice anymore.
00:20:43.12\00:20:45.47
You know, somebody
maybe asking the question,
00:20:45.50\00:20:47.08
well, thinking of the
question, so I'll ask it.
00:20:47.11\00:20:50.08
How do you become so actively
involved in the Lord' work?
00:20:50.11\00:20:55.29
I'm kind of coming
up with the answer.
00:20:55.32\00:20:57.79
I'm almost thinking that
00:20:57.82\00:20:58.85
it is at the point of
overextending yourself.
00:20:58.88\00:21:01.48
And then you just get
00:21:01.51\00:21:02.72
to the point of
clinical depression
00:21:02.75\00:21:05.04
where it's almost like
the communication is shut off.
00:21:05.07\00:21:08.60
And you can't find the Lord.
00:21:08.63\00:21:10.41
How do you-- I mean,
00:21:10.44\00:21:11.52
at what point did
you find that transition?
00:21:11.55\00:21:12.99
Was it an instant thing
or did you feel it gradually?
00:21:13.02\00:21:15.21
No, it was gradual.
00:21:15.24\00:21:16.55
It was so gradual
that I didn't know
00:21:16.58\00:21:18.46
what was happening to me and I--
00:21:18.49\00:21:21.40
when I got to the place
00:21:21.43\00:21:22.46
where I couldn't make
any decisions anymore.
00:21:22.49\00:21:24.93
I couldn't decide to eat.
00:21:24.96\00:21:26.74
My family would
try to make me eat
00:21:26.77\00:21:28.96
and I would just sit there
with the food in front of me
00:21:28.99\00:21:31.26
and I couldn't figure out
whether I should eat it or not.
00:21:31.29\00:21:33.08
And finally if they fought,
00:21:33.11\00:21:34.54
if they would get
tired of sitting there
00:21:34.57\00:21:36.38
trying to make
me eat and go away
00:21:36.41\00:21:38.69
which I kept
hoping that they would.
00:21:38.72\00:21:40.40
I would get up and
leave the food on the table
00:21:40.43\00:21:42.71
because I couldn't
decide whether I should or not.
00:21:42.74\00:21:45.13
And so I know what it feels like
00:21:45.16\00:21:47.52
to not be able to
even use your mind anymore.
00:21:47.55\00:21:50.63
But while I hadn't
realized was that one pathway
00:21:50.66\00:21:54.56
toward that was
quit complaining.
00:21:54.59\00:21:58.40
I began to become a complainer
before I ever got that sick.
00:21:58.43\00:22:02.69
So the seeds were being sowed.
00:22:02.72\00:22:04.01
The seeds were
being sown of complaining.
00:22:04.04\00:22:07.80
You know, I didn't like the fact
00:22:07.83\00:22:09.80
that I was under stress.
00:22:09.83\00:22:11.59
I didn't like the
things that caused me distress.
00:22:11.62\00:22:13.91
I didn't like the
people who caused me distress.
00:22:13.94\00:22:16.95
And I would say negative
things and my friends would say,
00:22:16.98\00:22:20.62
"Carol, you've never
talked like this before.
00:22:20.65\00:22:23.36
Why are you talking like this?"
00:22:23.39\00:22:24.88
And I'd said, "Well,"
00:22:24.91\00:22:26.07
and then I would
tell why I'm complaining.
00:22:26.10\00:22:28.37
And my friends
were just shocked.
00:22:28.40\00:22:30.69
They didn't know what to do.
00:22:30.72\00:22:31.75
But I didn't see
the downward current.
00:22:31.78\00:22:35.48
But I didn't see it
00:22:35.51\00:22:37.18
until finally I
got down to 82 pounds.
00:22:37.21\00:22:40.24
My family was terrified
that I was going to die
00:22:40.27\00:22:45.00
and they put me in
a mental institution.
00:22:45.03\00:22:48.07
While I was in the
mental institution,
00:22:48.10\00:22:50.53
I was only there for
two and a half weeks.
00:22:50.56\00:22:52.29
It seemed like forever.
00:22:52.32\00:22:54.15
But while I was in there,
00:22:54.18\00:22:55.86
I began to take
stock of myself and say,
00:22:55.89\00:22:58.30
"What am I doing here?"
00:22:58.33\00:23:00.50
And looked around and
all the mentally ill people
00:23:00.53\00:23:03.32
and all the
people that were just,
00:23:03.35\00:23:05.32
you know, really crazy.
00:23:05.35\00:23:06.91
I'm sorry to say that.
00:23:06.94\00:23:08.14
But, and I thought
"I don't belong here."
00:23:08.17\00:23:11.47
And so I would tell
people, "I don't belong here."
00:23:11.50\00:23:14.72
And there would like
"Sure, you don't belong here."
00:23:14.75\00:23:18.33
But that's interesting though.
00:23:18.36\00:23:19.57
When you get into that
kind of, I mean downward spiral,
00:23:19.60\00:23:21.70
then all of a
sudden you're trapped.
00:23:21.73\00:23:22.77
You are like in jail now.
00:23:22.80\00:23:23.83
Right.
00:23:23.86\00:23:24.89
In that spiritual prison.
00:23:24.92\00:23:26.68
Tell me, 'cause our
program is winding down
00:23:26.71\00:23:29.05
and I want our viewers to
get this point, our listeners.
00:23:29.08\00:23:31.69
How did you get out
of that? I mean what?
00:23:31.72\00:23:34.28
Well, that's what
I'm going to tell you.
00:23:34.31\00:23:36.60
While I was in there,
00:23:36.63\00:23:37.99
because of the
pressure of thinking,
00:23:38.02\00:23:41.10
I'm never going to get out.
00:23:41.13\00:23:43.09
I'm 60 years old.
00:23:43.12\00:23:45.19
60 year old women
with clinical depression
00:23:45.22\00:23:47.53
as bad as mine don't get well.
00:23:47.56\00:23:49.28
I mean, I was a nurse
00:23:49.31\00:23:50.60
and I was into
psychology too in counseling
00:23:50.63\00:23:54.00
and I knew that I was
in a desperate situation.
00:23:54.03\00:23:57.05
And so I began to think, "What,
why am I here, what happened?"
00:23:57.08\00:24:02.00
And then I remembered, I
forgot about the Sanctuary.
00:24:02.03\00:24:06.33
"Come into his
courts with praise."
00:24:06.36\00:24:08.52
I didn't say any praise anymore.
00:24:08.55\00:24:11.08
I didn't say thanks
to God for anything.
00:24:11.11\00:24:13.58
I didn't say anything positive.
00:24:13.61\00:24:15.28
And anytime a person
would come up to me and say,
00:24:15.31\00:24:18.00
"How are you doing?"
00:24:18.03\00:24:19.06
I would say, "Oh, it's terrible.
00:24:19.09\00:24:20.46
I don't have
enough food" and you know,
00:24:20.49\00:24:22.42
and I'm starting on
this really sick stuff.
00:24:22.45\00:24:24.78
And people were just like,
00:24:24.81\00:24:25.97
they didn't want
to talk to me anymore
00:24:26.00\00:24:27.58
because I was
constantly complaining
00:24:27.61\00:24:30.57
and griping and all of a sudden,
00:24:30.60\00:24:33.33
I thought, "I'm
not in the Sanctuary.''
00:24:33.36\00:24:37.55
And so I began and I said,
00:24:37.58\00:24:40.73
"All right, the only
way back to mental health,"
00:24:40.76\00:24:43.87
and the doctors didn't
think I would ever get well.
00:24:43.91\00:24:47.13
Nobody really did
because they never had seen
00:24:47.16\00:24:50.10
anybody in their
family, in our family
00:24:50.13\00:24:53.10
or whatever
that was-- that sick.
00:24:53.13\00:24:55.69
And I said, if
there's anyway back,
00:24:55.72\00:24:59.18
it's through the Sanctuary.
00:24:59.21\00:25:00.95
And so I began to
try to force myself
00:25:00.98\00:25:03.37
to say positive
things and praise.
00:25:03.40\00:25:06.26
As I pushed beyond
this critical spirit
00:25:06.29\00:25:09.72
and made a
covenant with myself and God
00:25:09.75\00:25:13.21
that I would come
back into the Sanctuary
00:25:13.24\00:25:16.62
little by little I was
able to actually praise.
00:25:16.65\00:25:20.29
At first I couldn't.
00:25:20.32\00:25:21.66
I would - and you know,
00:25:21.69\00:25:22.75
when people say,
"How are you doing?"
00:25:22.78\00:25:23.81
And I would, I would
think, I'd try to think,
00:25:23.84\00:25:26.46
"What am I supposed to say?"
00:25:26.49\00:25:27.79
I'm not doing well.
00:25:27.83\00:25:29.04
But I'm not
supposed to say that.
00:25:29.07\00:25:30.61
So I would just
say, "God is good."
00:25:30.64\00:25:32.79
Okay.
00:25:32.83\00:25:33.91
Good shot. Wonderful.
00:25:33.94\00:25:35.53
And as I began to
praise, I began to get well.
00:25:35.56\00:25:39.39
It took months of
that, several months.
00:25:39.42\00:25:43.00
Actually it was
a gradual process.
00:25:43.03\00:25:45.79
But the praise of
God healed my mind.
00:25:45.82\00:25:49.46
And it put me back
into communication with Him
00:25:49.49\00:25:53.14
to where I'm now fully
able to have my life back,
00:25:53.17\00:25:57.68
my family back, my career back,
my God back, my ministry back.
00:25:57.71\00:26:02.54
And I believe, I know
beyond a shadow of a doubt,
00:26:02.57\00:26:06.01
it's because of the
healing power of the praise.
00:26:06.04\00:26:09.16
That's right.
00:26:09.19\00:26:10.22
And that is the first
step in the Sanctuary,
00:26:10.25\00:26:12.78
come into His courts
with praise and thanksgiving.
00:26:12.81\00:26:16.53
That's wonderful and as
our program is winding up,
00:26:16.56\00:26:19.79
I know that our listeners
and viewers are saying,
00:26:19.82\00:26:22.08
"I need to praise the Lord more,
00:26:22.11\00:26:23.77
not just to say 'God is good."
00:26:23.80\00:26:25.86
And as you think
about that, friends,
00:26:25.89\00:26:27.58
you can see in Carol's
life the difference between
00:26:27.61\00:26:29.58
depression and deliverance
00:26:29.61\00:26:32.07
is "entering into His
gates with thanksgiving
00:26:32.10\00:26:35.69
and into His
courts with praise."
00:26:35.72\00:26:37.43
As a pastor,
sometimes I've seen many people,
00:26:37.46\00:26:39.12
they come to church
00:26:39.15\00:26:40.29
and you could see on
their faces and then I said,
00:26:40.32\00:26:41.91
"One day I'm gonna put a
video camera on the pulpit
00:26:41.94\00:26:43.93
and then just videotape
while I'm doing the sermon,
00:26:43.96\00:26:46.00
because so many people
have their minds somewhere else
00:26:46.03\00:26:48.93
and at the end of the
sermon some people say,
00:26:48.96\00:26:51.02
"Oh, that was a
wonderful message."
00:26:51.05\00:26:52.30
Others, it's as though
00:26:52.33\00:26:54.62
it's just always
a steel granite wall
00:26:54.65\00:26:56.52
just bounces off and
doesn't-- and doesn't absorb.
00:26:56.55\00:26:59.26
And so would you say
00:26:59.29\00:27:00.33
that the way to
wholeness is praising the Lord?
00:27:00.36\00:27:02.75
Absolutely, it is-- they have--
00:27:02.78\00:27:07.23
the scientists have discovered
00:27:07.26\00:27:09.04
that the body reacts
positively to praise.
00:27:09.07\00:27:12.45
It's not just the mind alone
00:27:12.48\00:27:14.10
but the whole body
reacts positively to praise.
00:27:14.13\00:27:17.59
I could talk for
another hour on that
00:27:17.62\00:27:20.20
but suffice it to say
00:27:20.23\00:27:22.04
that God has
created our whole minds
00:27:22.07\00:27:23.87
and our whole bodies to respond
to this atmosphere of praise,
00:27:23.90\00:27:27.50
which is the
atmosphere of heaven,
00:27:27.53\00:27:29.21
because that's what they are
doing all the time in heaven.
00:27:29.24\00:27:31.08
Wow, well, thank you
00:27:31.11\00:27:32.14
for sharing that with us, Carol.
00:27:32.17\00:27:33.52
Program is short
but very, very sweet.
00:27:33.55\00:27:35.30
Thank you for sharing with us
00:27:35.33\00:27:36.57
the answer to
coming out of depression
00:27:36.60\00:27:38.60
and into deliverance.
00:27:38.63\00:27:40.11
Well, friends, as you know
here at Issues and Answers,
00:27:40.14\00:27:41.91
that's one answer to
whatever issue you may have.
00:27:41.94\00:27:44.15
If you are in
darkness, there is deliverance
00:27:44.19\00:27:46.72
and begin by "entering
into the Lord's presence
00:27:46.75\00:27:49.67
with thanksgiving and
into His courts with praise."
00:27:49.70\00:27:51.88
Until we see you
again, May the Lord bless you.
00:27:51.91\00:27:54.43