Participants: Ruthie Jacobsen (Host), Bill McClendon, Tim Garrison
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000359
|
00:01 ¤ ¤
00:29 Hello and welcome back to Issues and Answers. 00:32 We're glad to see you. Maybe you have seen some of the other 00:37 programs where we've been talking about building bridges. 00:39 So you know what we're about. Today we want to talk about 00:46 building the bridge again but this time the power; where do 00:51 you get the power to build a bridge. It takes enormous power 00:56 to build a bridge of any kind. So today we want to talk about 01:02 that power. Of course, the power is with him, with our God, our 01:08 Father and he has told us in Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I 01:14 will answer and I'll show you great and mighty things which 01:18 you don't know about. And that's where we can go; that's our 01:23 source of power. What a wonderful God we serve. He has a 01:28 plan and a purpose and he will help you build that bridge. 01:33 My guests today are Tim Garrison and Bill McClendon. 01:37 Welcome back. Good to be here. Tim Garrison, for those of 01:42 you who may not have met him, Tim is a church planter in 01:46 Southern California. Yes that's right. And Bill McClendon is a 01:52 church planter and also a church administrator in 01:56 Oklahoma, Tulsa. You know, Bill, you have several roles in 02:01 Oklahoma, right. You're a church planter, you're a church 02:06 administrator. I have two questions for you. What is a 02:11 bridge to you in what you're doing in the kingdom business? 02:16 You used to be in financial and computer business. Now you're in 02:21 kingdom business and I don't have to ask you which one you 02:27 prefer. But what is a bridge and where in your roles do you do 02:33 most of your bridge building? 02:37 Okay, good questions. When we're talking about bridges we're 02:40 talking about building a pathway for someone to come to 02:43 Christ. You know, as we look at the gospel commission of what 02:47 Jesus calls us to do, we're to go and make disciples. But in 02:52 the world in which we live today there has to be a 02:55 relationship. There has to be an element of trust. Before I can 02:58 talk to somebody about Christ it's best if I get to know them 03:02 and we become friends or at least a relationship is 03:06 established. So when we talk about that sometimes we call it 03:09 personal evangelism, where we're building relationships with 03:12 people I'm putting myself in someone else's life. We can do 03:16 that through a number of ways of acts of kindness or just 03:21 ministry to the person, but it's always with an objective that at 03:25 some point I'm going to be able to use that relationship to 03:28 introduce them to Christ. So when you talk about where do we 03:32 do most of our bridge building - it is the life of the church. 03:35 That's what we are to do. We're the salt, we're the light and 03:39 it's talking about that affect that we have wherever we go 03:43 we're to live with such intentionality that we see 03:45 candidates for the kingdom. And before I can talk to them about 03:50 Jesus I need to become a friend. 03:52 That's right. But where do you get the incentive to do that? 03:57 Where do you get the power to do that? Where do you get the 04:03 willingness and just the open doors. Where does all that just 04:10 happen? Well any time we're doing God's 04:12 work we're relying on him to lead us and this idea of 04:17 building bridges and building relationships with people is 04:21 really doing his work. So we have the promise that if we come 04:26 into alignment with his plan. Too often times we want to do 04:30 church and Christianity and we ask God to come join us in our 04:34 agenda. But this is putting us right in the middle of his 04:38 agenda. So we pray and we believe that as we make 04:42 ourselves available to God that he will send us and direct us to 04:46 the people whose hearts are open and willing and receptive. 04:51 What has been your experience after you've prayed and asked 04:56 the Lord for open doors what happens? 04:59 Well one thing that I've found is that amazing, unique kinds of 05:04 things happen when you're open to the Lord's leading. 05:08 And when you have prayed. 05:09 And when you've prayed, exactly. In fact, prayer is essential. 05:14 Part of it is that those who are in a Christian culture and 05:19 largely have friends in a Christian community, they have 05:23 to be intentional about breaking out of that community in order 05:27 to build those bridges. And prayer becomes a dynamic by 05:31 which the Lord begins to show you ways to break out of that 05:36 comfortable community that you've been in and begin to 05:39 reach out to new people and new environments and new 05:42 situations and to break through the fear that you may have in 05:46 terms of actually doing that. Now one think I think Bill will 05:50 agree on when it comes to church plants; you have the 05:54 choice. You're in the community, you must reach out to the 05:57 community and so suddenly your whole frame of reference, your 06:01 whole attitude takes a complete change. And so it's essential 06:05 that you find ways to reach out into the community. 06:08 You're always thinking of ways to tie what you're doing to the 06:12 community. Let me give you an example. This is a simple little 06:15 thing. Every year of course we have a very nice Easter concert 06:20 and Christmas concert and we do direct mail and advertise it to 06:24 the community. And we found by just simply putting one key word 06:29 in our advertising, community, Moorpark Community Easter 06:35 Concert, Moorpark Community Christmas concert. It's like it 06:40 opens up a whole door that's inclusive. It's inclusive. 06:43 And so when people see it it's not just a particular church's 06:48 concert or performance. 06:50 Anyone in the community reading that says hey this is for me, 06:53 I'm invited. This is for me. Now that's a 06:55 simple thing but it's not always something you think about unless 06:59 you have a particular attitude or particular approach. Unless 07:03 you're asking the Lord to give you a mindset about the 07:07 community itself. And you know, when you're 07:10 praying and you're asking the Lord for ideas in prayer, 07:14 haven't you found that when you're in prayer and in the 07:18 scriptures he will lead you to texts that are encouraging. 07:21 When you might be thinking Oh I don't know if this is going to 07:26 work. Sometimes I've gone to the Lord and I've said Lord I don't 07:32 know. I'm out of ideas and I'm just kind of tired or just not 07:37 feeling very creative, the Lord himself will pick you up and 07:42 carry you. He'll remind you with texts like the one in 07:45 Deuteronomy that says not only am I with you, not only am I 07:49 using you, I'm going to make you the head and not the tail. 07:53 That's our God. You know the thread of 07:57 connecting with people is all through the Bible and so you 08:01 know our viewers I would challenge them because many 08:03 have regular Bible study and they're into the word of God 08:07 but if they pray beforehand Lord help the scripture speak 08:10 to me in ways that I can begin to break out of my comfort zone 08:14 and reach out into the community then the very words of scripture 08:17 will become the direction that God will provide them. 08:21 It's interesting to know that if there is a text that has 08:25 especially encouraged you in your Bible study he's going to 08:30 bring a friend sooner or later and you can say guess what, this 08:35 is something that I think could really be a help to you today. 08:40 You can't just give it somebody until they're ready but the Holy 08:44 Spirit will impress you at a time when they're open and 08:47 they need it. Our God is Faithful. 08:50 That's absolutely true. What happens when we've advertised 08:55 community we have a number of community families that come in 08:59 and our goal is of course to encourage them in hopes that 09:04 they come back the next week and we establish relationship with 09:08 them. There's one particular couple that came to our Easter 09:11 concert and they sure enough came back the next week and they 09:16 have been coming regularly to our group. Speaking about prayer 09:21 she came to me one day and she said you know pastor I would 09:25 to start a prayer ministry in your church and I would be 09:29 willing to start a prayer chain for those who have a prayer 09:33 need. So we have a prayer box, we have a prayer request form 09:36 and every person that puts a request in there I hand over to 09:40 this community lady who is not a baptized member of our group 09:44 but is an attending member and she then gets on the phone and 09:49 sets up a prayer chain on behalf of that person. Now that came in 09:54 as a result of us being open to community people and creating an 09:58 environment where they feel free then to exercise the gifts that 10:02 they have. That's great, that's great. 10:05 What have you seen as a result of prayer? Maybe it was an 10:11 individual or something but you could say that's an answer, 10:16 that's a direct answer? 10:20 Just a few weeks ago I had the privilege of baptizing a young 10:24 lady into our congregation and as I had the opportunity to kind 10:27 of hear the story, because there's always a story about 10:31 what God has been doing and how God has been working in that 10:34 person's life. It turns out that it was another church member 10:37 that was working in the same place and, you know, it's 10:42 an interesting thing because we encourage our people to invite 10:44 friends, family, coworkers to any and every event. As I began 10:51 to hear the story, this young man had invited this young lady 10:56 to at least 10, 12, 13 different things. And I believe the first 11:01 event was actually a small group and she came to the small 11:04 group and she enjoyed that experience and, of course, it's 11:07 a small group, this meeting, and they're talking about going to 11:10 church so she came to church. About the same time we had a 11:13 vacation Bible school and she had kids and so she came to 11:16 that. As I was talking with her about this, how is it that God 11:22 led you here she points to the invitations made by this one 11:26 church member. As I thought about it, how many times do we 11:30 invite someone one time and the almost we mark them off the 11:34 list. But if you keep an attitude of prayer you'll be 11:39 consistent. The time was right. Now it's interesting. We have 11:43 two Christians now working in that company and they're very 11:47 intentional and they're praying that God will use them to reach 11:51 other people in that area. In fact she had just recently moved 11:55 her desk so she could be a part of another group that she could 11:59 witness to. That's building bridges. 12:01 Wow, that's wonderful. And the power of prayer. 12:04 Yeah they were praying that God would use them. In fact, not 12:09 that long ago she came to me because she had a physical need 12:13 that she had been diagnosed with cancer. We had prayer and 12:17 anointed her as a body of believers and just a few weeks 12:21 ago she came back and she said the doctors are saying the 12:24 cancer is gone. So it's in every thing that you do, prayer is the 12:30 power. We had a woman that walked into 12:32 prayer meeting and she said I was just on the phone with some 12:38 body and he told me that his son-in-law is going to be coming 12:44 here to pastor and he sounded so helpful and so genuine. I asked 12:50 him are you a Christian? He said well yes I am. She said well 12:55 what church? And he told her. She has been coming. She 13:00 hasn't been baptized yet but she has changed her work so that she 13:04 can come to church and she's praying. Before she changed the 13:09 place where she was working. She was prayer walking. And she said 13:13 this is so fun and I get to talk to people and they don't 13:17 understand so I can explain to them. But she was thrilled 13:22 because she was discovering the power of prayer. 13:26 Well it's really absolutely true prayer is such an essential 13:31 ingredient. I know many people they really would like to do 13:35 this, they would like to reach out to others and they're 13:39 hesitant. They don't always know how. So they need the power of 13:44 prayer to really give them the strength to be that underlying 13:49 divine power that replaces their human hesitancy. Courage is not 13:55 the absence of fear, it's moving in spite of your fear. So you 13:59 need the courage that God can give you through prayer to step 14:04 out and take those risks. 14:07 I think prayer is a two-way street. You're talking to God 14:12 and you're listening to him through his word. And he says 14:16 I haven't given you fear. That hasn't come from me. I won't 14:21 give you a spirit of fear. I'll give you a spirit of power and 14:25 of love and of a sound mind. 14:27 You know, I prayed about being in an environment where there 14:30 were strangers, people I had never met before. Sometimes as 14:34 pastors we are particularly in an environment of other 14:37 believers and so we have to be very intentional about trying to 14:42 get outside of that. So I found myself in a courthouse full of 14:47 other potential jurors and I didn't know any of these people. 14:51 There were 200 or so of them. So several of us were called up to 14:56 actually be placed on a jury. I wasn't sure what the Lord was 15:01 doing with that but I actually got into the jury box and 15:04 generally speaking pastors are not always the ones selected as 15:09 jurors. When the judge was talking to me about some of my 15:13 feelings and ideas and so forth I said well I sort of believe 15:17 that I've been here five different times and I've always 15:20 been dismissed and I think my theory is that the defense 15:24 attorney thinks that I'll be too judgmental and the prosecution 15:29 thinks I'll be too merciful. Well they selected me to serve 15:34 on that jury. So for a week I went through this jury process 15:38 you know with my other fellow jurors and I had an opportunity 15:42 to really get close to these people. During the breaks we 15:46 would walk and talk and share and by the end of that 15:49 experience we didn't want to leave. We had bonded together. 15:52 I'm very close and good friends now with several of those jurors 15:56 So you know the Lord puts you in these situations when you're 16:01 open to them and when you ask him and pray about it. Then he 16:04 gives you the power to do what needs to be done when you're in 16:08 them. That's why prayer is so 16:09 important. I remember when I first became a Christian I was 16:13 so excited that I told everyone and you know I was probably 16:17 was pretty confrontational. 16:19 But your life had been totally changed. 16:22 That's right and I couldn't understand why everybody else 16:26 didn't want exactly what I wanted. 16:28 You want to say why haven't you gotten with it? 16:30 And a lot of my witnessing turned into arguments and turned 16:34 into other things. What I learned then that's why we pray 16:38 is that God has people who are willing and open and that's 16:42 where we want to go. We could witness to a thousand people and 16:45 it would be like witnessing to a potted plant. But God has 16:48 people whose hearts are open, he knows where they are and he 16:52 wants to bring us into contact with that individual. And when 16:55 that happens then building bridges and witnessing and 16:59 sharing our faith is a positive experience. Not that it isn't 17:03 sometimes a little scary, a little bit uncertain, but when 17:07 you see what God can do you look back and you go wow. 17:10 You just want to say how did you do that? But he makes it so 17:15 enjoyable and so rewarding. 17:17 He does and he also does give you the strength through prayer 17:20 to sometimes deal with those situations that you don't think 17:24 are so successful or maybe somebody hasn't been as 17:28 responsive. So that you don't just cower back into your home 17:31 and say well I'll never do that again, but instead you have the 17:35 strength to be determined. And the other thing is we never know 17:39 we just simply never know what will happen with that contact 17:42 that we made down the line. It may at first seem like it wasn't 17:46 especially effective but down the line it can be because we 17:50 planted that seed in that person's life. 17:52 And if there's prayer the Lord will take it and do something 17:57 with it. Yes that's right. 17:58 My husband does something that some people may think well 18:03 that's really very insignificant because you probably will never 18:09 see this person again. We travel and we eat out when we're 18:15 traveling and before we eat we'll have the blessing there in 18:20 the restaurant. So Don nearly every time will say to our 18:25 waiter or waitress, we're going to ask God to bless our food 18:29 is there something that we can pray for you. Now nearly 18:34 every single time he gets a very positive response. Sometimes 18:40 people are surprised and they'll say Hmm a I don't know. I don't 18:46 think so. But that's very, very few and far between. Usually 18:51 they'll say oh you're going to pray for me? Why I've got kids 18:56 in trouble or you know my marriage is on the rocks or 19:00 I'm working two jobs to keep things afloat. 19:04 You know that's very significant You know these servers in 19:07 restaurants, they're taken so for granted and they're often 19:11 abused by people, you know, who isn't getting their food right 19:15 or whatever. To look at them and for a moment recognize their 19:19 humanity I think is a really powerful thing. I always like to 19:24 say there are islands of humanity all around us and 19:26 every place that we intersect another human being, at the 19:30 grocery store, at the gas station, in our neighborhood 19:34 is an opportunity to touch that island of humanity. 19:38 I think by building a bridge, building a pathway to someone's 19:43 heart for the Holy Spirit to touch, you're saying I respect 19:48 you. I believe one day this bridge is 19:53 going to come into play. You know if you're going to build a 19:57 a bridge you want the bridge to be used and leaving those 20:00 bridges in place is very powerful. 20:03 Can I tell you a story, a prayer story that I just love. 20:08 This girl has become a friend of ours but at the time I first 20:12 heard the story we didn't know her. Her name is Janelle Chang. 20:17 She was 21 years old. She'd gone to Boston to take a year of 20:21 college and didn't know a soul up there. Her parents took her 20:26 from Tennessee, got her a little apartment, got her 20:28 settled in school and then at 5:30 on Sunday morning they had 20:32 to take their rented car and go back to Logan Airport and fly 20:37 back to Tennessee. Well she fell apart because it was 5:30 in the 20:42 morning, her parents were gone, it was her birthday and she was 20:46 in a strange town and she said Lord I don't even know why I 20:51 insisted on coming up here and going to school because this is 20:55 a big strange city, I don't know anything about Boston. I don't 20:58 even know what you want me to do with my life. Well you know 21:04 words are important. What we say what we hear ourselves say, 21:09 these words, they make an impact on our own thinking and on our 21:14 own mind. The more she was fussing and fuming the worse 21:19 she felt. She was crying and carrying on about how bad it was 21:25 to have your 21st birthday in a strange town and she wore 21:30 herself out with fussing and crying and storming around and 21:35 telling the Lord she didn't know what to do. She finally fell 21:41 across her little sofa and fell asleep. She had a dream and in 21:47 her dream she saw Jesus and Jesus said to her, I know your 21:52 finances are tight. But I know you have $50 that you've been 21:57 saving for some New Balance shoes. I want you to take that 22:01 money and buy a dozen long- stemmed red roses and I want 22:06 you to pray over those. Prayer is important at every step in 22:12 our life. And he said after you've prayed over these roses 22:17 I want you to take them to people who really need me and 22:22 give them a rose and then say this is a very special day in my 22:28 life and I want you to have this flower, and I want you to pray 22:33 so that I can bless them. Well in the dream she argued with the 22:38 Lord. She said that is a crazy idea. I need shoes, I need those 22:42 New Balance shoes and those are strangers; they aren't going to 22:47 want a rose from a stranger. Forget it. But in the dream the 22:52 Lord won. You know usually when you have a dream, you forget it. 22:56 When you wake up you don't remember it. But when she woke 23:01 up she remembered every detail of the dream. So when she got up 23:06 she put on her coat, walked out the door. She said Lord this 23:10 seems a little strange to me but I'm going to do it and I 23:13 have peace because this is an adventure you told me to do and 23:18 I'm going to obey you. She found the roses and she paid for them, 23:22 it took nearly all of the $50 because this was the season of 23:27 the year and they were long- stemmed gorgeous roses. But she 23:31 found people. She found a man in the gutter, literally. I mean he 23:36 was living on the street, smelled awful. He looked like he 23:40 didn't have a friend in the world. She walked up to him 23:45 a rose and she said I just want you to have this rose. It's a 23:50 very special day in my life and he looked at her, tears in his 23:55 eyes and then she said silently, Okay God, there he is bless him, 24:01 do something special in his life he really needs you. Then she 24:06 went to the subway and she found a mother that was 24:08 exhausted, several children, and they were crying. The mother 24:13 looked like things were out of control and she walked up to 24:17 her. Same little speech, gave her this and again there were 24:21 tears. She was having such a wonderful time because each time 24:26 she would say all right God, there they are, do something 24:30 special. She finally had one rose left. She got off the train 24:34 walked across the street and went to the hospital. Inside 24:39 this hospital she saw a nurse in the corridor and she said I have 24:43 a rose. Is there a patient that you think might enjoy this? 24:47 And she said Ah I don't even have to think. Come with me. 24:51 She took her down the hall to Carlos's room. She said Carlos 24:55 is 15; he's dying of a malignant brain tumor. His 25:00 family is there in the room. They don't speak English, but 25:03 there is a translator there so she can help you. So she took 25:07 her into the room, introduced her to the mother and father and 25:10 the sibling and then to the translator so that she could 25:14 walk around to the other side of Carlos's bed and she could 25:17 look him in the eyes. She patted his cheek and she said, My name 25:23 is Janelle and I have a rose for you and she put it there beside 25:29 him so he could feel that velvet petal on his cheek. Of course, 25:34 she saw a tear go down on the pillow. She went over to his 25:39 mother and gave her a hug and you know a hug is universal in 25:44 all languages. Then she just tiptoed out of the room. But she 25:48 noticed that the translator was following her out of the room 25:52 and she said how did you know about Carlos. She said I didn't 25:57 know about Carlos. Out came the whole story. I had this dream. 26:02 Jesus told me to buy these roses I had $50 I was going to use 26:06 for New Balance shoes. He told me to do this and it's been a 26:10 great experience. He told me to pray over them and he would 26:15 direct me. So that's the story. The translator said, now I have 26:20 a story for you. Last night before I left the hospital I 26:24 said Carlos, is there one thing I can do for you. We both know 26:29 you're not going to be here much longer. He said, One red rose. 26:34 And she said I forgot, I couldn't do it. It was late last 26:39 night. I came in early this morning and here you are with 26:46 this rose. And they both then were in awe at the big God who 26:52 loves us enough to send flowers. 26:55 You know Ruthie it just shows that when we reach out and when 27:00 we pray to God that we be sensitive to others that our 27:05 lives are enriched as well, even more. 27:07 But this translator had one more thing to say. She said, I come 27:11 here on weekends and during the week I'm the vice-president 27:15 of the New Balance Shoe Company. And she said, you will never buy 27:19 another pair of New Balance shoes. I want to do this for 27:24 you and for your God. God is so big and he does love us enough 27:29 to send flowers. He does, yes uh-huh. 27:32 Thank you so much for being with us today. We're out of time but 27:36 thank you Tim, thank you Bill. It has been such a joy to hear 27:40 these stories and to rejoice together about the power of 27:44 building bridges, the power of prayer. And thank you for being 27:49 with us. We'll be praying for you as you build bridges with 27:54 prayer. God bless. |
Revised 2016-01-20