Participants: Ruthie Jacobsen (Host), Bill McClendon, Tim Garrison
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000358
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00:30 Hello, and welcome back to Issues and Answers. 00:33 Today again we want to talk with you about building bridges. That 00:39 just seems to be something that is very important today because 00:45 we as Christians need to be in the bridge building business. 00:50 Maybe you've never seen yourself as being in that business, but I 00:55 think we all should be. And when we go to work for the Lord, 01:00 building bridges in his name, bridges of love and compassion 01:04 and concern and interest and helpfulness to people around us 01:09 he is there with us. I love this text from Deuteronomy 28:12. 01:15 He says that he will bless the work of your hands. HE will 01:21 bless the work of your hands, so we know it's going to be blessed 01:26 and when it's blessed it has much greater meaning and much 01:32 greater power for eternity than anything you or I could do. 01:36 So we're glad you're with us. Our guests, I'm glad that you're 01:42 with us too. Tim Garrison from Southern California, Camarillo, 01:48 thanks for coming. And Bill McClendon from Oklahoma. 01:53 Tulsa, Oklahoma. Tulsa. You know both of you are 01:59 building bridges. Both of you have a unique calling and 02:07 empowerment. Well I'm excited, Ruthie, to be 02:11 here with Bill because we're both church planters and so 02:16 we've talked a little bit about our common experience and it's 02:20 thrilling to really talk about the joys of planting church, the 02:25 environment it creates and the way in which with church 02:28 planting you can build bridges to people. 02:31 Now a church planter doesn't pastor a church in the same way 02:36 that a pastor of an established church works, is that right? 02:40 Well that's correct. I mean in a church plant you're out in the 02:44 community and you're starting from scratch. You have a small 02:47 group of people, sure, but you're establishing that church 02:51 for the first time in that community. 02:52 And you go to a community where there has not been a church 02:56 before. That's correct, that's right. 02:58 Because you're needed in that community, but the people of the 03:01 community don't know that they need you. 03:04 So you have to, I mean, you're forced to build bridges to 03:09 the community because your livelihood, your sense of 03:12 accomplishment, your establishing that church is all 03:16 dependent upon the degree to which you utilize the power of 03:21 prayer, your relationship with God to create a special place in 03:26 that community. Don't you believe that God 03:28 really wants us to expect big things from him. I think that he 03:35 is disrespected and dishonored when it's like coming to the 03:41 ocean to get water and you're carrying a teaspoon. I don't 03:46 believe that that's honoring to him. I believe he wants us to 03:51 expect something enormous, something that only he can do. 03:55 Otherwise he's not glorified. Bill, I want to ask you, in your 04:00 ministry as a church planter, how has God confirmed to you 04:05 that he had people out there who needed him and he brought the 04:11 two of you together? 04:13 Ruthie, my experience started out as just a person who really 04:16 wasn't even a Christian and shortly after I became a 04:20 Christian and became a part of a church, I was just so excited 04:23 about what God had done in my life as I was looking around 04:26 month after month, year after year I wasn't seeing the church 04:30 growing. You know, good people, very busy doing things but yet 04:35 the church wasn't growing and I just believed, again, reading 04:39 the book of Acts, learning about how the church started there 04:44 in those days, and I just believed that there were 04:46 hundreds and even thousands of people who wanted to hear the 04:50 gospel. So as I'm going through this experience and getting a 04:54 little bit discouraged and I was probably a lot of trouble to 04:57 some of the people in the church you know. Here's this young guy 05:00 all on fire. Now I don't know how many times they said ah 05:03 he'll calm down after a awhile. He'll become just like the rest 05:07 of us. You hear that but that's sad. 05:08 Yeah it is. It is. Well praise the Lord I 05:12 never really lost that and I kept... You know one of the 05:15 things that really happened and brought it home and made it 05:18 personal to me is I kept asking why doesn't the church do 05:21 something? Why doesn't the pastor do something? And finally 05:25 the Lord brought it back to me and said what are you doing 05:29 about it? And through a providence of God I was given 05:33 the opportunity, my wife and I, as a lay person, to start a 05:37 brand new church and the idea of church planting there in Tulsa, 05:42 Oklahoma. How big was it when you stepped 05:43 out to do this? How many people did you have with you? 05:47 The agreement was that we could take five families. Originally 05:50 they said we just want you and your wife to go and I thought 05:53 well she plays the piano and I preach but there wouldn't be 05:57 anybody to listen. Because we didn't want to hurt the existing 06:01 church and so we wanted to take a very small group. The other 06:06 reason is we wanted this DNA, we talk about DNA in church 06:10 planting. We wanted this not to looks just like the existing 06:14 church but we wanted it to have its own personality and it's 06:18 own mission. And so making it small we were able to do that. 06:22 Yeah, I think it's critical. Our group, we have 20, we went 06:28 through a process of meeting together first before we planted 06:32 the church to talk about our purpose, our goals, our vision 06:37 so that we were completely united before we ever held our 06:41 first public meeting. 06:42 And no group can look like another group and shouldn't have 06:45 to. But how did the Lord confirm this to you? 06:48 Well, a very similar experience. We picked up those five 06:52 families. There were about 20 or so on our very first Sabbath but 06:55 we spent six months praying and asking God. We didn't read a lot 06:59 of books. We didn't go to a lot of seminars about church 07:02 planting. I'm thankful I didn't because it probably would have 07:05 scared me off. I didn't know what I was getting into but it 07:08 just seems to make so much sense We'll just believe in God that 07:12 there are people that wanted to hear about the gospel and so we 07:15 stepped out in faith and our very first worship service I 07:20 think we had 27 people there, men, women and children. And we 07:24 were so excited. You'd have thought it was a church of 2000 07:27 the way that we worshipped and what we had put together. But 07:31 you know you talked about asking big things from God. Before we 07:35 ever held our first worship service, it was our hope and our 07:40 prayer that we would grow to 100 people in the first year and 07:45 300 by the third year, 500 by the fifth year. We weren't even 07:48 sure if we were going to survive and we'd already been asking God 07:52 for 500 people after five years. 07:54 Don't you think he likes that? 07:56 Well he does. I think God really asks us to be visionary, to have 08:03 a sense of what he can accomplish, not what we can 08:05 accomplish, but what he can accomplish. 08:08 Bill tell us about this tennis player. How in the world did he 08:14 find Jesus? Wasn't that a God thing? 08:16 You know, everything about church planting and growing 08:20 God's church is a God thing. If we think we can make it happen 08:23 I think God has a way of setting us straight very quickly. Our 08:28 church started with the focus of reaching people and so that was 08:32 what the church was going to be about. There's a lot of things 08:36 that we can do in a church to keep us busy but it wasn't about 08:40 that. We wanted to be a church that would be focused on winning 08:43 the lost and because of that we've adopted a very aggressive 08:49 evangelistic program. We're always inviting people to study 08:54 the Bible, to study about prophecy, to learn about the 08:57 second coming and as a result of that we had an encounter with a 09:02 young man who... God was working independently. You know, so 09:07 often when we get ready to do an evangelistic meeting we find 09:11 out that God has been at work way ahead. I've had so many 09:14 people that walk in the very first night and say I want to be 09:17 a member here, I want to be baptized. And I'm thinking to 09:21 myself, look you don't even know anything yet. We haven't shared 09:24 anything only to find out that God got there ahead of us and 09:28 they were ready. 09:29 I like something that I heard about you, maybe you told us, 09:34 but you are an evangelistic group that does church rather 09:39 than a church that does evangelism. That really says our 09:45 priority is singular here. 09:47 The gospel commission is go ye into all the world and teach and 09:51 baptize and make disciples. It doesn't say go ye into all the 09:56 world and have church. And I think that too often we keep 10:00 that as our main purpose, just worshipping together every week 10:05 and it's a big part of what we do but it's not the most 10:08 important thing we do. We're not called to worship, we're called 10:13 to serve. We worship as we go. So we have tried to keep that 10:17 our focus and the Lord has blessed. You know I set those 10:21 big goals that we have on our third anniversary. We baptized 10:26 our 300th member. In our fifth year, not on our fifth 10:30 anniversary, but in our fifth year we baptized our 500th 10:34 person. Then it makes me wonder what if we'd asked for 1000. 10:39 You know, what could God have done? 10:41 And in your area you have the population. 10:45 That's correct. We have 844 in our town. 10:48 It's interesting. I identify so much with what Bill is saying 10:52 in terms of a church plant really provides a place where 10:56 you can be evangelistic every week and that's the thing about 11:01 established churches. They need to really look at that. To what 11:06 extent is there worship service an outreach service? To what 11:10 extent is it a service that when somebody comes in from the 11:14 community that they feel immediately comfortable and that 11:17 they are connected with what's going on there. It's not just an 11:21 internal, sort of exclusive language that only a certain 11:24 kind of people understand? Is it a safe place? 11:27 Yes is it a safe place? Exactly. So like you say evangelism is an 11:35 attitude or state of mine. Building bridges is an attitude, 11:38 a state of mind where everything you do really focuses in on 11:42 whether or not it's reaching that community person. 11:45 I like what a pastor friend of mine did when he had a little 11:48 team that would go out and clean restrooms. They cleaned 11:52 restrooms in businesses and he went into this carpet store one 11:57 day. He had on yellow rubber gloves and he had his little 11:59 tray with all his stuff in it to clean and he walked in and he 12:04 said to this manager, we'd like to just clean your restrooms. 12:08 She looked at him and she kind of you know like are you some 12:12 kind of idiot. She said I ought to call the police on you. And 12:17 he kind of smiled because I could see my rubber-gloved hands 12:21 with hand cuffs. He just kind of looked at her and smiled and she 12:26 said to him, Well all right. If it makes you happy go and do it. 12:32 So he said to his team, let's do a really good job and let's get 12:37 out of here. We are not going to annoy this woman. So they did 12:41 their work and when they left everything was shining and spic 12:45 and span. When he came back going out to the main entrance 12:49 to leave, she looked at him, she saw him. She said sit down! 12:53 He said I felt like I was a teenager again called on the 12:57 carpet to the principal. He said I sat down and I was wondering 13:02 what is coming next? She said just wait. Well she was waiting 13:06 on a customer. When she was finished she came over and sat 13:10 down beside him. This time her attitude was totally different. 13:14 She had been gruff and the manager and intimidating. 13:21 And now her attitude was open and she said I was thinking 13:26 while you were in there cleaning our restrooms, I wonder if I 13:31 would fit in a church where people go just to be helpful? 13:36 Just go and clean somebodies restroom just to be helpful. 13:41 She said I'm 26 years old. I'm single, I have a daughter, I'm 13:47 addicted to drugs, my life is a mess and she said I just wonder 13:52 if I would fit in your church. And he looked at her and smiled 13:57 and he said, (I love his answer) he said, you know I think you 14:02 would absolutely fit in our church, but if you didn't he 14:07 said we would start a new church for addicted carpet store 14:12 managers. Isn't that good? And she smiled but she started 14:18 coming to church because he was just out there where she was and 14:25 wanting to meet and to be helpful. And you never know when 14:30 somebody is almost attacking you maybe that's the person the Holy 14:35 Spirit is really working on. 14:37 Well, yeah, I think people are really desperate for someone 14:40 that will listen to them and somebody that will just hear 14:43 their story and if people will just start the day with a prayer 14:48 that says let me be sensitive to others. Let me be willing to 14:53 listen, it's amazing what will happen. Let me tell you about 14:58 nine-year-old Sawyer. When we first hung out our banner and 15:03 had our first service, why he came in the door from the 15:07 neighborhood without his parents just him. He saw the sign and 15:11 he was curious. He began attending week after week after 15:15 week. The neat thing about a church plant, and I think Bill 15:18 will confirm this, is that when somebody comes in your door 15:22 you're just grateful that they are there for one and if they 15:25 offer to do something you're just grateful they offered. 15:28 Because you can always use help. 15:30 You can always use help. Nine- year-old Sawyer, bless his heart 15:35 he wanted to be helpful so we allowed him to be a greeter out 15:38 in the parking lot as people would come. He goes out and he 15:43 greets them, hands them a program, and he loves it, and 15:48 not only that but the people who come love to see him. When 15:52 he can't make it for one reason or another they always ask well 15:58 where is Sawyer this week. Well just a few months ago he is now 16:04 14 years old, he's attended for five years and I had the 16:08 privilege of baptizing Sawyer because of the relationship, the 16:13 bridge, that we built and openness that we had to this 16:16 young man who simply wanted to serve the Lord. 16:18 Wow. I love that story. I want to come back to you because I 16:25 heard you tell the story about this pro tennis player and that 16:32 is such an example of the Lord working all of the way at every 16:38 step with you and with him. I just want our viewers to hear 16:43 that. You're not going to let me get 16:46 with it? No I'll come back to this. 16:48 Yeah, we do several evangelistic campaigns a year and we're 16:52 always praying that God will bless. You have to believe that 16:56 God's going to work because you're out there; you're out of 17:00 the boat, you're on the end of a limb and you just believe that 17:04 God's going to do something. This was no different than any 17:07 other meeting that we had and it was unusual that we were having 17:11 a meeting in a hotel. Night by night I would come out and I'd 17:15 share the Bible and this young man, Joshua, came in first 17:17 night and he sat on the first row. If you want to be noticed 17:19 by a preacher sat on the first row. If you want to be noticed 17:21 by a preacher sit on the first row. So many people want to sit 17:25 in the back. But he sat on the front row. Then I preached to 17:27 him. You know I preach to the people on the front row. Night 17:30 by night, you know, he's nodding and enjoying all this, the 17:33 second night, the third night and the fourth night. Well we 17:36 got kind of into the program and we hit a subject where I was 17:39 going to begin to talk to them about making a decision, making 17:42 it personal and suddenly the next night Joshua isn't there. 17:48 And I'm crushed, because even though it wasn't really that 17:52 personal but you'd just see the potential of what someone can 17:56 be. So for the rest of the meeting Joshua didn't come. 17:59 Well it turns out a week or so after the meeting I get a phone 18:04 call and it's Joshua. Joshua had been out of town and he was in 18:08 town and he attended the seminar but he said I had to leave and I 18:11 want the rest of it. Do you have it on tape? Do you have is some 18:14 way I can get it. So we made an appointment and we met together 18:17 and I gave it to him and I just extended the invitation for 18:21 Joshua to be a part of our church family and he just could 18:24 come and worship with us. So I wasn't sure where it would go 18:29 but Joshua took the things that I had given him and I guess it 18:32 was a couple weeks later he called and said would it be okay 18:36 if I started attending your church. And I said well sure! 18:39 Joshua came in and he sat right on the front row, which you know 18:44 doesn't have a lot of people in it. So week by week he stayed in 18:47 there and finally Joshua wants to make an appointment. He said 18:51 I've got to tell you a story. As I made this appointment with 18:55 Joshua it just confirmed to me how God works. Joshua is a young 18:59 man who felt a call to ministry but he was also good at tennis. 19:04 And the life of a tennis player with the money and the girls 19:08 and Joshua was a young man and he just wanted that as well and 19:12 so he put that feeling that he was called to ministry aside and 19:16 he pursued his tennis career. I guess he'd done fairly well but 19:19 something happened in his life and he just went to his trainer 19:23 one day and he said I want to take a break. And Joshua was 19:27 surprised when his trainer said okay. 19:30 Usually these trainers are hard on you. 19:32 That's right. I don't know what he was doing but he was 19:36 traveling and he was traveling across the country and he 19:40 arrived at an airport and he gets on the plane and he goes 19:44 to one of the hubs to get on another plane. He goes across 19:48 the terminal or wherever it is and he gets on his new plane and 19:52 he realizes that he's forgotten his sport coat, the jacket, a 19:55 very expensive one. His plane is getting ready to leave and as 19:59 he's there at the counter he tells the person what has 20:02 happened and she says you don't have time. We're holding this 20:05 plane, you've got to get aboard. 20:07 Kind of like forget the coat. 20:10 Right. You just don't have time. Well some gentleman is listening 20:15 to this and as Joshua turns away and gets ready to get aboard, 20:19 he's an airport personnel like one of the people that work on 20:22 the tarmac. And he said you know this might sound funny but I 20:26 have a question for you. He said if I get your coat back will you 20:31 promise to go to church. And Joshua hadn't been to church and 20:34 Joshua wasn't going to church at the time. He didn't really 20:37 know what to say and he didn't even know how to respond to 20:40 this person and the guy repeated if I get your coat back do you 20:44 promise to go to church? And they're trying to board this 20:47 plane and Joshua is trying not to make a scene and he says sure 20:50 and so Joshua gets on board and he gets kind of near the back of 20:54 the plane, turns around and this guy is following him onto the 20:58 plane and as Joshua looks at him he says now I want you to make a 21:03 promise that if you get your coat back you promise to go to 21:07 church. And Joshua said okay. He just wanted this guy to go 21:11 away. This guy now very loud in front of the whole plane he says 21:15 you guys have heard him that if he gets his coat back he 21:18 promises to go to church. Joshua goes on, I think he was going to 21:21 New York. He goes to his hotel, he gets up in the morning and 21:25 his telephone rings and it's the concierge who said we have a 21:29 package for you. So Joshua goes down and he sees his coat in one 21:33 of the plastic dry cleaning covers and his phone rings. 21:37 He answers his phone and it's that gentleman and all he said 21:41 was did you get your coat back? Joshua says yes; he says 21:45 remember your promise. 21:48 So he must have known what hotel to send it to. 21:51 I don't all of the details but I've got to believe that guy 21:55 was an angel that God had placed in Joshua's life. Through a 22:01 number of other circumstances Joshua found himself in our 22:06 hotel the night our meetings started. So Joshua is telling 22:10 all this story and he says what do you think I ought to do? 22:13 And I said well Joshua what do you think God's calling you to 22:18 do. He said I think I'm to be a pastor. So I said well I think 22:22 so too. So he said can you give me some information. He said the 22:27 things I've learned in this meeting you know I believe them 22:30 all and so I want to teach what you've been teaching. I want to 22:34 do these kind of things. So I gave him a little bit of 22:36 information about some of our colleges and universities. He 22:40 took a trip. He came back and he said Andrews University, I 22:44 think that's where I want to go. And he said do you think you can 22:47 get me in. And I said well, I hate to say this, but I said 22:50 Joshua do have any money. Oh yeah I've got money. I said well 22:55 I think I can get you in. So it turns out that next weekend I 22:59 had the privilege of baptizing Joshua and within three or four 23:04 days he was on the campus of Andrews University doing his 23:07 undergraduate work but planning to go into the ministry. 23:10 You know Bill I love that story because it shows how God sees 23:17 every person as unique. God understands what the needs are. 23:23 I like Joshua's story but I like the way God put the two of you 23:29 together and you became a role model for him. As you were 23:34 teaching and preaching and you know sharing God's word the Holy 23:38 Spirit was saying this is what I want you to do. I want you to be 23:43 like Bill. You can do this. It's just amazing how God works. 23:47 You notice too that there's a chain of activity. In other 23:51 words Bill is a link in the chain. The airport worker is a 23:56 link in the chain. It all comes together as God uses each link. 24:02 When we pray to God let me be a link, let me be a piece of the 24:08 puzzle that connects somebody to you then we become a part 24:13 of that greater picture. 24:14 And the exciting thing of it is it is such a huge thing. I mean 24:19 any step of this is far beyond anything that human devising 24:25 could come up with. 24:26 You couldn't plan it. In so many spots I thought we had failed. 24:32 You know when Joshua wasn't at the meeting the first time. 24:35 Because we are so puny with our understanding. 24:39 That's right. You know as we were establishing 24:43 our church plant we had a lot of things that we needed to take 24:45 care of and get a lot of equipment. We were portable. 24:49 We had to get a truck and trailer and all the accoutrements 24:52 that go with it. So our group prayed and said Lord we don't 24:55 know how we're going to do this. We contacted one company; it 24:58 would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to make it 25:03 happen. Well we were put in touch through a series of 25:07 connections unbeknownst to us with a former evangelist's wife 25:12 who had a truck, a trailer and all the equipment that we needed 25:16 and it was up for sale. Here's the really amazing thing. The 25:21 daughter of that evangelist lives in the neighborhood 25:25 surrounding the school where we meet. Now you know that is not 25:30 circumstantial. That is not some isolated event. That is a series 25:36 of events that come together when you're willing to really 25:40 put your request before the Lord make a radical prayer and be 25:44 open to his guiding. 25:45 I think of the text in Psalm 20:5 that says that when you are 25:51 walking with the Lord he will give you the desires of your 25:56 heart and your plans will come true. The 20th chapter of Psalms 26:03 is so encouraging and you agree. You were giving the Lord a 26:08 certain number and the Lord said all right, We'll do it, We'll 26:12 work with you. You're serious. You believe me. And I really 26:17 believe that God wants to have us take him at his word. The 26:21 Bible says he's the same yesterday, today and forever. 26:25 Have you found, Bill, in your church planting experience that 26:29 as you go through each of these steps of faith and you see the 26:33 Lord work, that it strengthens you? 26:36 It's a faith-building experience. 26:38 Isn't it? It is. When the Lord takes you from 26:39 A to B you're not the same. 26:41 He gives you a lesson in faith and then he tests you. 26:46 That's right. But there are rewards at every step. 26:50 I can't believe we are just about out of time. But I want 26:54 to thank you for coming. It's been a blessing to hear your 26:58 stories. Will you come back? Of course. We promise. 27:02 Thank you Tim. Thank you Bill. Great to have you. 27:05 I believe that as you've been listening to this today that 27:12 the Holy Spirit has been saying to you, you are unique. You have 27:17 people around you who are unique. I can do the same in 27:21 your home, in your neighborhood, in your church. Ask me. Expect 27:26 me to work. I've promised in the first chapter of Psalms to give 27:32 you fruit, to plant you like a tree by a stream of living water 27:37 and give you fruit in season. We can stand on that promise 27:41 we can take it to the bank because of who has said it. 27:46 What a wonderful God we serve. Thank you for being with us. 27:50 We pray for you. God bless you. |
Revised 2015-05-13