Participants: Ruthie Jacobsen (Host), Bill McClendon, Derek Morris
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000354
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00:29 Hello and welcome to Issues and Answers. We are so glad that you 00:34 have joined us for this program today. We believe that there's 00:39 something so exciting, something personal, and something really 00:45 productive in our discussion today. We hope you'll be as 00:49 excited about it as we are. It's based on the text from Isaiah, 00:54 Isaiah 43 where it says, and God is saying this to us personally, 00:59 He's saying, I know what I've done in the past is magnificent. 01:04 What I have done has been incredible, almost unbelievable, 01:10 but don't just focus on the past don't just look back at the 01:16 wonderful miracles I've done. Look at me and wonder and know 01:21 that what I have done in the past I can do again. And he 01:25 promises, I'm going to do something new, watch for this 01:30 new thing. So our call to prayer as a church has a purpose 01:35 because God wants to do something big, something 01:39 enormous and something that is all-encompassing and that uses 01:44 every single one of us. Isn't that exciting? We believe it is. 01:49 I'd like for you to meet my guests Bill McClendon is from 01:53 the Oklahoma Conference. Yes. Welcome. Great to be here Ruthie 01:58 Glad you're here. 01:59 We're excited about what we're going to talk about today. 02:02 And you have some exciting things in your past and in your 02:06 future. That's right, I'm a pastor now 02:08 but I was not always a pastor. I became a Christian when I was 02:12 about 20 and it was really in a sense of that text that you just 02:17 quoted, wanting to see something new that I'd never experienced 02:21 before that God eventually called me into the ministry. 02:25 What were you doing at that time? When you were 20 and you 02:29 had not been a Christian at all before that time. 02:32 Raised in a Christian home but not a Christian, not a Christian 02:37 and I was working in business. I was a computer person, manager 02:42 of an IT department and really just everything going great in 02:46 my life. And you were very successful? 02:49 Very successful. Everything going well. I just went home one 02:53 night in the emptiness of my own home and had an encounter with 02:57 God that I really felt God was calling me to be a follower. 03:01 It was just a few days later then that I received an 03:05 invitation to attend some meetings that were happening in 03:08 the city that I was in, in Tulsa and I went to those meetings 03:12 and I really met the Lord and discovered what God was calling 03:16 me to do and that was to be a follower. 03:19 Bill that is such an exciting story. I love that. And it shows 03:25 what a personal God we have. That was a setup. He knew when 03:30 he wanted you to get that information. He said I love Bill 03:34 I've got a purpose for his life, I've got a bigger plan than he 03:38 can imagine and I've got to get him ready for it. 03:42 I'm glad God leads me one step at a time. You know it was first 03:46 to become a follower and then as I became a part of a church 03:50 there, just longing to see... You know I started reading the 03:53 Bible and was reading Acts chapter 2 and you look around 03:57 the church and you don't see things like that happening any 04:00 longer and I really had it in my heart to want to see something 04:03 like that. And then it was eventually God giving me the 04:07 opportunity to be a part of that by planting a new church and 04:10 becoming a pastor. 04:11 And you know the exciting thing of it is he himself gives you 04:16 that desire. Everything comes from him. I'd like for you to 04:21 meet my other guest that is here, Pastor Derek Morris from 04:26 the Orlando area in Florida, Apopka, Forest Lake Church. 04:32 Derek I'm glad you here. 04:33 I'm glad to be here. I'm excited to talk about how prayer and 04:37 mission go together in life changing ways. 04:39 What does this text mean to you that God is going to do 04:43 something new and that he's calling us, especially right now 04:49 right today. We're here in 2008 and we have a special sense of 04:56 urgency. How does that text fit into what we're doing? 05:00 I've always believed in prayer but the more I study the New 05:05 Testament I see prayer and mission inextricably linked 05:09 together. And there's a text that has particularly impacted 05:13 me in the book of Acts chapter 4 and it says there, speaking 05:17 about the believers, it says after they prayed, so prayer was 05:21 crucial, prayer was foundational but sometimes Christians say 05:24 well I'm not into mission I'm just into prayer. But the text 05:28 says after they prayed the place where they were meeting was 05:31 shaken, they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. People say 05:35 oh I want to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but it goes on 05:38 and says and spoke the word of God boldly. And you read the 05:42 book of Acts and it's all about mission. It's all about telling 05:45 people about Jesus, that he died for their sins and rose from the 05:49 dead, that he is indeed the Christ, Son of God. So I think 05:53 the new thing is saying we need prayer. To go out and try to 05:57 serve Jesus without prayer is foolish but we also need to go 06:02 from prayer. Get up off of our knees and do missions. 06:05 I think we as Christians have always believed that prayer is 06:10 vital and we sometimes have the mistaken idea that if we pray 06:15 and we're studying the word that's really all there is to 06:19 being a Christian. That's just the first beginning steps. We've 06:24 got to move on from there because it's all for a purpose. 06:27 God wants us to know him. 06:29 That's right. The other extreme, Acts chapter 6, is where the 06:32 church is growing rapidly and the number of disciples is 06:36 increasing greatly. Then the leaders say, we need to delegate 06:40 responsibility to people full of the Holy Spirit and we must 06:44 remember to devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of 06:48 the word. So there's a balance. We need both. We need a 06:53 foundation in prayer all of us and we also need to be involved 06:56 in mission. 06:57 And I love the text in Daniel, Daniel 11:32 that says, and the 07:02 Lord is speaking through Daniel to us even our day. He's saying 07:08 if you know me intimately and he uses yadah, the knowing of 07:13 the intimacy of marriage, he says if you will know me 07:17 intimately I will make you strong and I'll make you able 07:22 to do bold and daring things. So it's always that God says 07:26 yes I love you and I've got a plan for your life and a purpose 07:31 for your life just as I have a place for you in heaven, a 07:35 mansion, a place for you to live in heaven, I have a place for 07:39 you on earth, but you have to know me. You have to talk to me. 07:45 I'd like to know, tell us, why is it so vital right now for us 07:50 as Christians and Seventh-day Adventists. 07:53 You know, as we're looking to the future, before we can really 07:56 look at the future, oftentimes we look at the past and there 08:01 has been a trend growing in, I think, all churches and that is 08:04 that things have gone pretty much the way they have. One only 08:07 has to come into the church. When I joined the church and 08:11 became a Christian and started attending 20 years ago it just 08:14 seemed like something was missing. Yes, people loved Jesus 08:18 and there's a spirit of desire to want to serve the Lord, but 08:23 yet God has a purpose for us. As I became a Christian I 08:26 realized that God added me to his family because he wanted to 08:33 use me for a reason. 08:34 He doesn't every want us to be so satisfied that we just settle 08:38 down in a rut and say wow this is good. I'm glad for what I've 08:42 got. This is enough. Because God says no, no, no, don't stop 08:47 there. I've got a huge plan for you. 08:49 That's right for 20 years of my life I was not a follower of 08:53 Christ. As I became one, my heart's desire was that I would 08:57 have been one earlier. And God lays that burden on all of our 09:01 hearts that there are people in our world, in our neighborhoods, 09:04 in our work places that we need to reach for the gospel. So that 09:08 I think is really where we're looking at. What does God call 09:12 us to do. Yes, he calls us to pray, he calls us to study the 09:16 Bible, but all of that is to prepare us for the work that 09:19 God wants us to do and that is to share him with the rest of 09:22 the world and I think that's the focus that we're looking at 09:27 in the future is how can we change the world and tell others 09:31 about him? That's right. And it must be 09:33 with a sense of urgency from him because he says that he's not 09:38 willing that any should perish. And just as he had a plan for 09:42 your life and for each one of us he has a plan for the people out 09:46 there who don't know him. And we're responsible. We have the 09:51 joy of working with him to take that to them. 09:54 The great commission was not the great punishment. You know, go 09:58 and tell everybody. It's a privilege that God gives to us 10:02 and for I think many Christians they never really embrace that 10:07 in a personal way. That's something that the pastor does, 10:11 or my minister does. But God calls all of us to do that and 10:15 we're looking forward to the time when the church will really 10:19 awaken and take a hold of that. 10:22 And it's time now, isn't it right now. It's time. 10:26 We've got to say all right we're going to stop doing 10:29 business as usual, we going to depend on God for 10:32 something huge. Tell us about that. 10:35 Well you know the church in North America and Europe is not 10:40 making the impact the way other places are. You know we read 10:43 about what goes on overseas, (South America, Interamerica) 10:48 and how 10s of thousands, but if you look at North America in 10:51 places like that it just isn't happening and you've got to ask 10:55 yourself why not. Is God not interested in people here or 10:59 is it us, that we no longer have that passion to reach people. 11:04 So there's been a nominal amount of growth that has occurred here 11:09 in North America, but in a meeting that I think Derek and I 11:12 were both in recently, thinking about the future you know it was 11:17 just a God thing as we met there and everybody sensed it but as 11:21 we looked to the future and setting some goals and some 11:24 ideas about what God could do, it wasn't just a 10 percent 11:27 increase, it wasn't just a 50 per cent increase but about 11:31 30,000 people are added to the Adventist church every year in 11:33 North America and by the time that meeting was over we were 11:36 believing God for 100,000 souls, 100,000 people. 11:42 In one year? In one year. And we have never come close. 11:45 Never. But something has to change in 11:48 order for that to happen. You've got to have the foundation of 11:51 prayer, but then everyone has to be engaged and talk about 11:55 how to build bridges with people and how to pray a radical prayer 11:58 that's going to change people's lives. But it can't be just 12:02 looking at the pastor or it's can't be a pastor just saying 12:05 well we'll have an evangelist come in. It has to be every 12:09 follower of Jesus first seeking God and then being part of that 12:14 miracle. That's what I like about that 12:17 goal. Everybody that looks at this and it's just such a God 12:21 sized thing that we know we cannot do it. We cannot do it 12:25 the way that things have always been done and this is really not 12:29 only asking all of God's people to get involved but asking God 12:34 to do something new like you just mentioned. 12:36 That's right, that's right. And you know every Christian has to 12:41 say Lord, I really, really want to be part of this. I don't want 12:47 this to pass me by. You know it's like the hymn, While on 12:50 others thou art calling, do not pass me by. I need this. I think 12:56 every Christian has to say Lord I want to be part of this. You 13:01 gave me life for a purpose. This is so exciting. How do you want 13:07 to use me and now what can be the next steps for them. 13:13 After I became a Christian I had a pastor who really took me 13:17 under his wing and he showed me what being a Christian was all 13:21 about and it wasn't just sitting there week by week but it was 13:25 sharing your faith and I had an opportunity to start giving 13:28 Bible studies. So you were growing. 13:30 I was growing but I've got to tell you I was going along 13:35 reluctantly. But really it changed my life when it was over 13:39 When I was sitting in church one day and I watched somebody walk 13:43 down the steps of the baptistery and I saw a person give their 13:47 heart to the Lord and to be baptized. It's then I understood 13:50 what God's will is for everyone, not just pastors but everybody. 13:54 Was that one of your friends, one of the people that you had 13:57 been sharing with. It was. It was somebody that I 14:00 had established a relationship with and I'd been able to give 14:04 some Bible studies to and it just made me understand now that 14:09 my life is not about making money or doing a certain job. 14:12 It is about ministry. It is about leading others into the 14:17 same experience that I had. And I can't help thinking that if 14:21 our people would just experience that. Our pastor talked about it 14:26 as a drug, the drug of winning people to the Lord, that once 14:30 you've experienced it, it's addictive. 14:32 It's a high, it puts you on a high. And you know the Lord 14:37 himself takes you from the state of reluctancy to the joy and the 14:43 excitement and the rewards of actually seeing somebody make 14:47 progress and growth. And you understand that growth because 14:51 you've been there and you want them to just experience that. 14:55 And then to keep sharing it and then it becomes exponential. 14:59 You know, the Lord leads one step at a time. If he had shown 15:02 me everything, I would have run so far the other direction so 15:06 fast. But it seems like one step If you're willing to be faithful 15:10 to the Lord and take that next step then you're amazed when 15:13 it's over and how far God has led you. 15:15 And you know when you realize that scripture is true, he 15:20 really does take you where you never could have gone. He really 15:25 does help you to be what you never could have been and he 15:28 helps you to do what you never could have done. That's great, 15:32 Bill. But I can just hear somebody say that's wonderful 15:36 that's exciting, but how did you get there? I'm still a little 15:41 bit fearful. You know fear is not necessarily 15:45 a bad thing. You know when we are a little bit fearful when 15:49 we're doing something for the Lord, it drives us to our knees, 15:53 it helps us to know that we are depending on him. Everything in 15:57 life is fearful the first time that you do it and this is not 16:01 about everybody going to have their own evangelistic meeting 16:05 or even knocking on doors. This is about everybody praying and 16:09 asking God what is it that you would have me to do? As we all 16:13 work together and God adds his blessing then anything is 16:17 achievable. But what would happen if God is calling me to 16:21 be a part of this and I remain inactive? 16:24 Then you miss something huge that only he can do because I 16:28 believe he's calling us to something supernatural. Sure. 16:33 But a supernatural mission calls for supernatural resources and 16:39 only he can do that. That's why prayer has to be the basis and 16:45 then he leads us step by step. Wouldn't you agree? 16:48 You know to come back to something that Bill said that 16:51 Jesus... Luke 10 is a passage that's profoundly impacted my 16:55 life. When the disciples joined Jesus in what he was doing, it 16:59 says they returned with joy and so... 17:03 They probably went out with fear they returned with joy. 17:05 He said they were lambs so they didn't feel totally adequate but 17:09 as they joined him in his work they came back with joy and the 17:14 beautiful think is that God places us where he knows we're 17:17 gifted to serve and he gives us the gifts that we need. 17:21 I'm glad you said what you did about fear. A friend of mine 17:25 who's a pastor in 17:26 Tampa, Florida told me recently, he said you know what I had a 17:30 member that came into my office the other day and he said pastor 17:34 you wanted us to go out and do something with you, I think it 17:38 was a car wash or feeding parking meters, or something 17:43 maybe it was handing out water at some event. He said I've 17:47 never done this before and I'm kind of scared. The pastor, I 17:52 thought, his response was perfect. He said you're scared. 17:56 I'm scared too. Let's be scared together. But let's just do it. 18:00 And once you do what you're afraid of you discover that that 18:06 was just a farce. Do what you're afraid of and the death of fear 18:11 is certain. That's right. That's right. I 18:13 think anytime we do something... You know it's a supernatural 18:17 thing. When you start talking to somebody about their 18:20 relationship with God and we're entering into ground where we 18:24 know we are not able to do this and that's when God joins us. 18:27 When we get out of the boat or crawl out to the edge of the 18:31 limb. We are safely in God's hands and we don't always have 18:34 the right answer. We don't always know exactly what we're 18:37 going to say but I have found it's in times like that that God 18:41 really does his work in our life and when it's over then it's not 18:45 about what I've done or what Derek has done or anybody, it's 18:49 about what God did in that experience. 18:51 That's right. There's a gospel song and the words go like this: 18:55 Get out of the boat and start walking on the sea, because out 18:59 of the boat is the safest place to be. When you're walking 19:03 toward the Master, he will keep you afloat. Never mind the wind 19:08 or the waves, get out of the boat. So what would you say 19:12 to somebody who's saying I really want to get out of the 19:16 boat? I'd encourage them to begin to 19:20 pray and I've been led to very radical prayer in Luke 10 where 19:24 we give the Lord of the harvest permission to throw us out into 19:28 his harvest. The beautiful thing is instead of saying I'm 19:32 supposed to do what everybody else is doing, is to say Lord 19:35 you show me what you want me to do. You put me in the place that 19:38 you want me to be. I think of my wife who had a small Bible 19:41 study group with three or four ladies and they felt convicted 19:45 to encourage people to come and study about the great prophesies 19:49 of Daniel and Revelation and something happened as they were 19:52 willing to step out to use your words, step out of the boat, 19:57 the group has grown. They have 30 to 50 people coming and you 20:01 know how my wife feels? She's joyful. She's excited. 20:05 Because she knows that she can't do this and the other ladies 20:09 that are there, they know that they're joining God in what he's 20:14 doing. Now all of that is going to bless them as well as bless 20:19 the people that are learning more about the word. 20:21 And it grows because the people who are there studying now get 20:26 excited. Success is its own reward, because the people who 20:32 are there are saying, oh I know somebody who ought be learning 20:38 what I'm learning. This is life changing stuff. 20:39 That's exactly what's happening. And so we're starting... They're 20:43 going to start the study again and have a second group studying 20:47 some other things and this Daniel and Revelation group's 20:50 going to start again in January a different time of the week 20:53 when other people can come. And they're continuing to see God 20:57 work. And back to what we started with, that's taking my 21:01 wife and others back to prayer and saying God we really need 21:05 you. We really need you and yet we also want to come and praise 21:09 you. Great and awesome God the scripture says. Bless the Lord 21:12 oh my soul, all that is within me bless his holy name. So we're 21:16 experiencing a deeper relationship but prayer and 21:20 mission are inextricably linked together. 21:22 And don't you believe that when you're involved in something 21:26 this big, I mean this kingdom business. And the kingdom 21:32 advances among friends. When you are involved in a friendly 21:37 ministry, a mission that has eternal consequences, the Lord 21:43 himself gives you the sense you're just watching me work. 21:48 I'm doing this whole thing but I'm giving you the privilege of 21:52 watching me at work. 21:53 That's what it has to be. We cannot look back on this 21:57 experience and say look what we did. We worked hard and we 22:02 invested a lot of money. It has to be look what God has done. 22:06 And it's a faith building exercise because as broad and 22:12 as aggressive as some of these objectives are that's still 22:16 nothing compared to what God wants to do one day. So this is 22:20 another step where we'll look and say God has honored our 22:24 faith. You know think about that experience of being thrown out 22:27 of the boat or walking on the water, I was reading something 22:31 recently and just as a reminder when we are over our heads 22:35 it's under God's feet. Because God walked on the water. So you 22:39 know it's something for us to remember that we're doing God's 22:43 work, we cannot fail. 22:44 You know what's happened for me, just a personal testimony, I was 22:48 invited to go and hold a meeting for a whole city and talk to the 22:52 city about Jesus. My first response is somebody else should 22:57 do that. You know, someone maybe more capable or experienced. And 23:01 then I think wait a minute. If God is calling all of us and God 23:06 has given me some gifts, I need to be willing to let him put me 23:10 somewhere that he wants me to be and I think this initiative 23:15 of saying God is going to do a new thing. We're looking at 23:19 three times the growth prayerfully. We've got to pray. 23:23 But we've got to do more than pray. We've got to say God show 23:26 me what you want me to do. 23:28 And you know Derek, maybe the first prayer ought to be Lord I 23:33 love you. Make me willing. Give me a willing heart so you can 23:37 just pour through me, put the words in my mouth, put the love 23:42 in my heart and just show people how much you care for them. 23:46 That's right. With him we move from being a passive observer 23:51 to being that active participant and when that happens something 23:55 happens in our heart. Then joy comes as we join God in what 23:59 he's doing. And that's something that we're praying that every 24:03 follower of Jesus will be willing to do; to say Lord show 24:06 me how to be an active participant in your work. 24:09 Christianity was never ever meant to be a spectator sport. 24:13 It was always for involvement and getting in there and joining 24:17 God because he's not going to let you down and he's always 24:21 going to be there with you. 24:22 That's right. Back to where we started in Acts 4. It doesn't 24:25 say that after they prayed, the apostle went out and 24:30 preached the word of God boldly. It says after they prayed they 24:34 went out, all of them, and in different settings and different 24:38 ways they are proclaiming the word of God in a life 24:43 changing way. Everybody's busy. In fact, the 24:46 whole book of Acts shows everybody was in there 24:48 together doing something. You know, I just have to share the 24:53 thought that came to me about all of this. The prayer and 24:58 going out, often, maybe nearly every time we have a prayer 25:02 event, somebody will come to me afterward and say, Ruthie, I 25:06 I know what you're saying is true but I need to have you pray 25:11 for me so that I can do that. I know the power has to come 25:15 from God but will you pray for me. And so let's pause right now 25:20 and pray for that person whom we have been speaking with. 25:26 Let's pray together. Father in heaven, what a privilege it is 25:32 to bring all of this to your feet. The things we've been 25:36 talking about today are too big for us. But nothing is 25:40 impossible with God. We ask you to come into our hearts in a new 25:45 and deep, wonderful way so that we can experience not only the 25:51 excitement of sharing with others, but the willingness. 25:55 Take us to people who you're already working with. We know 26:00 your Holy Spirit is way ahead of us. So walk with us and use us. 26:06 Surprise us with the joy of watching you do what only you 26:11 can do. Lord, we thank you, we love you and we praise you for 26:16 what you're doing. I ask a special blessing for the persons 26:21 that we're praying for just now. In the strong name of Jesus amen 26:27 This has been such a joy to have you both here today and our time 26:33 is just about gone. It goes so quickly, but you each have about 26:39 30 seconds to just encourage somebody that they can do it. 26:42 What do you want to tell them? 26:44 Ruthie, this is the most exciting to be a Christian. We 26:48 believe that Jesus is coming soon but there are yet people 26:52 that need to hear. You and I have been privileged to be a 26:56 part of that group that will be challenged to take the world 26:59 take the gospel to the entire world. I want to be a part of 27:03 that and I know others do as well. 27:05 And our best days are just ahead. Derek what are your 27:09 parting words? Well I think when we join God 27:11 in what he's doing we experience joy. So we come on 27:14 our knees and then we get up off of our knees and join him in his 27:17 work. Ah, what an exciting work. 27:19 And I want to thank you both for being here. There is an 27:24 excitement in this whole topic isn't there? 27:26 There is. Thank you for having us. 27:29 And you know we're thankful that you were part of this. 27:33 Thanks for joining us for Issues and Answers. I hope that this 27:36 will become something personal and real in your life. I hope 27:40 that you will take this to the Lord in prayer and say Lord they 27:44 were talking about me today and I really want to know you better 27:48 I want you to make me strong, I want to do this. 27:51 Thanks, we'll see you again next time. |
Revised 2015-04-10