Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and welcome again to
"Issues and Answers."
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We're so glad that
you tuned in no matter
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where you watching
from around the world
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and today we have a
very important topic
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and it's something that I think
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a lot of Christian
marriages suffer from
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and that is the enemy of
anger within the marriage.
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You know Paul
wrote to the Ephesians
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and he said in Ephesians 4:26,
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"When angry do not
sin, do not let your wrath"
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your
indignation, your exasperation
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and your frustration
"last until the sun go down,
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leave no room or
foothold for the devil."
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When we have
anger in our marriages
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and unresolved issues
then we are opening the door
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just a crack maybe, but
the devil can get a foothold.
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So we are so thrilled
to have back with us today
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Dr. Douglas Weiss
and he comes to us
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from Colorado Springs, Colorado.
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He is the Director for Heart to
Heart Counseling Center there.
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Doug, thank you so
much for coming back.
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Sure, it's good to be back.
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Now you a have a--
let's talk about who you are
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and why you're
qualified to address this issue.
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Okay, well,
I've written 20 books
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and I've been
counseling for about 20 years
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and have seen lots of
couples over those 20 years.
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We have a counseling
center in Colorado Springs,
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we do phone
counseling, we do intensives
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all that kind of
stuff and I've had anger.
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That makes you
qualified, isn't it?
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Now you are also a Christian
counselor because you have--
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I'm a psychologist, yeah.
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I'm a Christian and I've
got two degrees in Bible,
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so I mean I can preach
as well as do this stuff.
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So we'll just do this stuff
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so as if I get preaching
the words, serious trouble.
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We're in serious
trouble here today.
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Well, we're glad
that you have returned
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we've enjoyed the programs
that you have done before
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and today let's talk
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about how anger enters
into marital relationship
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and may I be so bold to suggest
and I know you're gonna agree.
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Some times people just come in
with this baggage of your past.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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Yeah, there is a,
there is a few major causes
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of anger in a marriage or
in relationships in general.
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One is if one or both of
the spouses is really unskilled
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at sharing their feelings,
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they can actually get
emotionally jammed up.
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Okay, they feel rejected
it comes out as an anger,
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they feel alone
it comes as an anger.
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They feel unwanted that
comes out is really angry,
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they feel overwhelmed
that comes out as other,
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I don't know what I'm feeling,
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so I'm gonna go into the
room and watch TV for two hours.
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Okay, so most of us
do not have enough doors
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to share our feelings, we
only got two or three doors.
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Okay, now that's
the problem, okay.
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So we were talking
about doing feelings,
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feeling is the kind
of solution for that,
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learning how to identify
and communicate your feelings.
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The book walks you
through how to become
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a really good expert
in sharing your feelings.
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And the book we are talking
about is your book on Intimacy,
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A 100-Day Guide to
Lasting Relationships.
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Sure, because if you're gonna
be married it might be last,
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and if you're gonna be
married it might be as intimate.
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Right. Right.
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So we have intimacy
the last, it's great, okay.
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Now secondly
you're right our past,
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you know, I come from
being conceived in adultery,
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you know, being put in
foster homes, being abused,
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being neglected all
kinds of pain, okay.
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And so my pain
coming into a marriage
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which could have
caused a lot of anger, okay.
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And differs from full
time till I got it figure
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how to deal with that
issue, okay and multiple issues.
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The third part of anger
can be kind of this plaque
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that kind of
develops in a relationship
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because of unconfessed sin.
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You're married 15, 20, 30 years
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and your spouse
doesn't say they're sorry,
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doesn't own their stuff.
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And what happens is then
this plaque kind develops
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between the sppouses
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and that can really
start bring up some anger.
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Okay, so this is kind
of like brushing your teeth
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as a principle, so you're saying
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like confessing
your sin to one another,
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in other words if
I've hurt your feelings,
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I need to tell you,
I've sinned against you.
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Absolutely, will you,
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I mean, you know when you
sin against J.D., right? Yes.
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Holy Sprit tells you. Yes.
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That was wrong. Yes.
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Now sometimes the Holy
Sprit tells you to be quite
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before you sin
and then you don't
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and then you sin
anyway, you know.
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But we know when we
sin against our spouse.
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And usually we'd
sin intentionally there
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because it is
an issue, it's not,
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you know, my dad
was mad so I am mad.
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As Christian I have
a new father. Right.
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I have the sprit of adoption.
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I have a choice not
to be rude or unkind
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or self serving
and stuff like that.
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Now I'm also flesh,
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so I has a propensity
to do exactly those things.
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Doug, this is a topic
that I really speak to
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because if I'm
trying to teach or preach
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is going to be from something
God's working out of me.
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Sure, your life
experience, sure.
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From the experiences
and anger is something
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I can count on
my hand, one hand.
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The number of times that I have
gotten angry in my entire life,
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I have an incredibly
long fuse J.D has a long fuse,
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it would take a whole lot to
have us get angry and explode.
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Is that healthy, I mean--
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That may be healthy
but, you know, that's normal.
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I mean because you've worked,
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you've been in
ministry long enough
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and you've seen enough marriage
where anger really is an issue.
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Now it doesn't need to be
the issue for every marriage,
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like money is not an
issue for every marriage,
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but it is for some and there
are other things or other issues
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where this is not one of yours,
you're blessed in already.
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But why is it and I
don't understand really well,
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I know people who have to
go through rage management
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and they've got anger
management classes now.
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What is all of this anger
steaming from is my question.
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Like we said it could be the--
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anybody can get
feelings it could be past event
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like we talked about abuse,
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abandonment that clog like stuff
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or it could just be the sin
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that's clogged up
in your relationship
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so let's kind of
let's unpack some of that.
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Okay, like the
first one obviously if its
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because you don't know
how to communicate feelings,
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you need to get into the book
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and learn to identify
communicate your feelings
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with two of those a
day practice I feel blank
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when at first
time I'm feeling blank
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and get your emotional--
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Say that a little slower
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because you're
talking a little fast there.
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It's when you're--the exercise
is I feel fill in the blank--
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When that's in the
present tense like you know
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I feel whatever
give me a feeling.
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I feel sad.
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I feel sad when,
okay, I miss a flight
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and I'm not gonna be
at home and see my family.
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I first remember
feeling sad when--
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really first
remember feeling sad
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when I was dropped
off in a foster home
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and I was probably
like four or five years old.
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Right. Didn't know
what I was doing there.
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Okay, so one sense
in the present tense,
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one is in the past
tense under the age of 18.
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So you can get
your feeling skills up,
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so that when you are
feeling alone or rejected
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or confused or overwhelmed,
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you can separate
alone from lonely,
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confused from overwhelmed
and you can communicate that,
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so you don't have to get angry
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because it's a very
big feeling as you know
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and so you can communicate
it where the door needs
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to be as opposes
throwing everything
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into the trash of anger.
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So when couples are
disagreeing a lot of times
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there is unresolved issues,
unresolved anger in their heart
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and let's say that if you
are repressing your feelings
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and you don't know how
to explain your feelings...
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You're stuck.
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You just get where
there is this blockage
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and what happens is
you're either gonna come out
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through one of
those three doors,
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either you're gonna be angry,
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you're gonna be
very angry or other
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which is maybe slam the door
and walk out and hop in the car.
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Exactly. All right.
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And so if you're not emotionally
maturing then you're in trouble,
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because in marriage one
person is emotionally immature,
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they're gonna have a lot
more anger than they need to,
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because really they
just have other feelings
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they can tell you how they feel.
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Do you think anger is--I mean
that's a sign of immaturity?
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No, but because Jesus
was angry, God is angry.
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Yes, exactly. So they
are both mature people.
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All right, but what I'm
saying is the Bible says
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in your anger do not sin.
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When you're acting out on
anger in an inappropriate way,
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that's the sign of immaturity.
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Absolutely it can be,
I mean because you can,
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if you are using your
anger to hurt another person
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that's probably when
you're getting into trouble.
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Okay, because Jesus was angry
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and you know even when he did
an exercise of cleansing temple,
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he didn't hurt anybody.
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Of course they didn't know
that he wasn't gonna hurt them.
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But okay, so
that's the first one.
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The second one is
that which we're kind of
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moving towards right now
is I come in with baggage.
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All right. Ex-relationships
hurt me, ex-girlfriends,
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maybe their ex-husbands or wives
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depending what
your life story is like,
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umm, maybe those has
been hurt from churches,
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maybe has been
hurt from attorneys,
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maybe has been hurt from bosses,
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maybe has been
hurt from professors,
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maybe has been hurt
from mom and dad growing up
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but there is hurt.
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Let me give you a good
example I think here. Okay.
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Within my family, I've someone
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who in the first
marriage was abused
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and so now when if her husband,
I mean, physically abuse.
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So if her
husband is angry with her
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and if he gets her
into a confined space
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even though he
has, her second husband,
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even though he's not
been physically abusive
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but if he gets her with her
back to the wall so to speak,
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what she's reflecting
on is she is going back
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to the situation from the past
and she just almost explodes.
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So that's what you're saying,
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when there is
unresolved issues from the past,
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you kind of project them
into your current relationship?
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Yeah, let me--let me
give you a kind of a story
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from Babe Ruth story, okay.
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Babe Ruth was a famous
American baseball player, okay,
00:10:07.46\00:10:10.70
but when he was
a little boy okay,
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he was dropped off
at an orphanage, okay.
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And when there is this big
metal gate that he walks through
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and the last thing his dad says
to him is you're incorrigible
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which means you're
rotten to the core,
00:10:22.13\00:10:23.51
you're bad to
know and you are bad.
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And that's the last
words he heard from his dad.
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Then he walked into an orphanage
and never saw his dad again.
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Mercy.
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Okay, so he grows up
playing stickball, baseball,
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we know his story.
00:10:35.48\00:10:36.51
Where there in a world series,
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he's one of the
most famous people
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on the planet at this time.
00:10:39.28\00:10:41.19
He has his own private
caboose car which would be like,
00:10:41.22\00:10:44.10
you know your own
private plane today, okay.
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Everything is great in his life,
he's out there he's partying,
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he's drinking, he's
eating, he's sloppy,
00:10:48.97\00:10:50.67
he's got all those
teammates in there,
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you know, it's a confined
area, and he's getting sloppy
00:10:52.38\00:10:54.72
and he's getting drunk
and his wife looks at him
00:10:54.75\00:10:57.53
from across him and
says, you're incorrigible.
00:10:57.56\00:11:01.33
And he flips out and
starts throwing things
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and get really upset, everyone
gets out of the car, okay.
00:11:03.81\00:11:06.51
So she hit a past
wound that he didn't heal.
00:11:06.54\00:11:10.57
And let me tell you something,
00:11:10.60\00:11:12.17
your spouse cannot heal
any of your past wounds.
00:11:12.20\00:11:15.73
And if they run
into them that means
00:11:15.76\00:11:18.04
it's something you should
be aware off so that you heal.
00:11:18.07\00:11:21.13
See, like someone can
hurt me, okay, and they have,
00:11:21.16\00:11:24.67
it's my responsibility
to heal that hurt. Okay.
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So I can be a better spouse.
Does that make sense to you?
00:11:27.16\00:11:30.44
Yeah. In other words,
the perpetrator was...
00:11:30.47\00:11:35.36
They shot the bullet.
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They shot the bullet and they're
fully accountable for the--
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whatever the incident is. Yes.
00:11:40.30\00:11:41.68
But what you're saying
is quit playing the victim
00:11:41.71\00:11:44.84
and it's our responsibility,
if I'm the one that's been shot,
00:11:44.87\00:11:48.74
it's my
responsibility to be healed.
00:11:48.77\00:11:51.45
Yeah, it's okay
that crime has happened
00:11:51.48\00:11:54.17
or an event has
happened and that's truth, okay.
00:11:54.20\00:11:56.69
But that doesn't
become your identity.
00:11:56.72\00:11:58.40
Okay, Jesus Christ has removed
00:11:58.43\00:12:00.20
anybody status
of being a victim.
00:12:00.23\00:12:01.81
Amen, amen.
00:12:01.84\00:12:03.25
You know what I'm saying,
just look at Him on the cross
00:12:03.28\00:12:05.34
and you can't cry
victim, you can cry hurt,
00:12:05.37\00:12:08.33
you can cry wounded,
but you can't cry victim
00:12:08.36\00:12:11.34
because he was innocent,
he was beaten for our sins.
00:12:11.37\00:12:14.90
Okay, and yes, that
person has hurt you,
00:12:14.93\00:12:16.53
I've been sexually abused,
00:12:16.56\00:12:17.59
I've been in
abandoned, I've been neglected.
00:12:17.62\00:12:19.05
I was conceived in
adultery, I got more reasons
00:12:19.08\00:12:20.85
than most people be
upset and angry and hurt.
00:12:20.88\00:12:23.11
But Jesus, you
see what I'm saying
00:12:23.14\00:12:25.84
and once you need him,
00:12:25.87\00:12:27.38
you have to become
responsible not victim. Okay.
00:12:27.41\00:12:31.19
And we are
responsible to heal, okay,
00:12:31.22\00:12:32.78
just walk through this,
suppose, how would we do that?
00:12:32.81\00:12:35.60
Okay, now people come to
me, I'm a psychologist, okay;
00:12:35.63\00:12:37.92
people come to see me to
get help with woundedness.
00:12:37.95\00:12:41.06
Okay and I'll take
him into the scripture
00:12:41.09\00:12:42.24
and show him how
Jesus cleanse the temple.
00:12:42.27\00:12:44.99
Okay, all right.
00:12:45.02\00:12:46.06
We are the
temple of Holy Spirit;
00:12:46.09\00:12:47.21
you know that you are the
temple of the Holy Spirit.
00:12:47.24\00:12:49.09
Everyone who is saved,
00:12:49.12\00:12:51.51
you know that you are the
temple of the Holy Spirit;
00:12:51.54\00:12:54.14
Holy Spirit
indwells you, right? Right.
00:12:54.17\00:12:56.16
And now my temple's been wounded
00:12:56.19\00:12:58.63
all pretty much
true there, okay,
00:12:58.66\00:13:00.78
so I'll go through and do what
we call cleansing the temple.
00:13:00.81\00:13:03.27
Four steps, number
one and some people
00:13:03.30\00:13:06.40
are going to be
upset about this.
00:13:06.43\00:13:07.46
They think, oh, no, you
should just forgive them,
00:13:07.49\00:13:08.63
wasn't Jesus cleansed the temple
00:13:08.66\00:13:10.42
before he said
father, forgive them.
00:13:10.45\00:13:13.31
Okay, a lot of people,
no, I'll just forgive them,
00:13:13.34\00:13:15.53
yeah, but they're still wounded.
00:13:15.56\00:13:16.89
And the thing is, Shelley,
00:13:16.92\00:13:17.95
these wounds are
three dimensional,
00:13:17.98\00:13:19.01
spirit soul and body as we're
walking around wounded with,
00:13:19.04\00:13:21.95
oh, I forgave them already
00:13:21.98\00:13:23.26
but you're still acting
like you're wounded. Okay.
00:13:23.29\00:13:25.69
Okay, so we got to get to
the wound three dimensionally.
00:13:25.72\00:13:27.60
So what you do, get a
piece of paper make a list of
00:13:27.63\00:13:29.96
who has hurt you,
okay, and then deal with it.
00:13:29.99\00:13:32.54
Number one, you
write an anger letter,
00:13:32.57\00:13:34.22
so whatever the offender's
name or perpetuator's name
00:13:34.25\00:13:36.59
or relative's name is
you write that in there
00:13:36.62\00:13:38.80
and you write
them an anger letter
00:13:38.83\00:13:40.54
and this is not a nice
letter, this is puking on paper.
00:13:40.57\00:13:44.25
I can puke and put
them in a pantry room and--
00:13:44.28\00:13:45.92
you can just puke them, okay.
00:13:45.95\00:13:48.29
And before
this--hang on, just one second,
00:13:48.32\00:13:50.36
before we go through the process
00:13:50.39\00:13:51.53
because I want everyone to
understand you shared with me
00:13:51.56\00:13:54.82
that this process God
gave you when you were working
00:13:54.85\00:13:59.48
with someone in
a psychiatric or...
00:13:59.51\00:14:01.96
Sure. He working better.
00:14:01.99\00:14:03.77
Wasn't getting
bitter and tell us
00:14:03.80\00:14:05.53
how the Lord
gave you this process.
00:14:05.56\00:14:07.07
I was working with a young lady
00:14:07.10\00:14:08.20
who was originally
sexually abused, okay.
00:14:08.23\00:14:10.15
And she wasn't healing
and so and that was my job
00:14:10.18\00:14:13.79
to help her and I'm
like, Lord, I'm out of ideas
00:14:13.82\00:14:17.05
and I don't know
what to do with this girl,
00:14:17.08\00:14:18.11
she's really a mess.
00:14:18.14\00:14:20.07
And he said now, and the
Lord tells me what to do it
00:14:20.10\00:14:21.72
and he show me
later the scripture,
00:14:21.75\00:14:23.43
so he told me, listen go
in there and have her do this.
00:14:23.46\00:14:26.53
Write the anger letter to
the guy and then go in there,
00:14:26.56\00:14:29.88
this was like in seclusion room,
there's a mattress in there,
00:14:29.91\00:14:32.20
and I got her
racket and we showed her
00:14:32.23\00:14:35.12
how to do this exercise
and she started to heal.
00:14:35.15\00:14:38.12
Okay and we've
been using this exercise
00:14:38.15\00:14:39.48
for over 15 years in
our clinical practice.
00:14:39.51\00:14:41.29
And it works.
00:14:41.32\00:14:42.35
And it works, it works
for tens of thousands people
00:14:42.38\00:14:43.59
who've bought the book.
00:14:43.62\00:14:44.65
Okay. Okay.
00:14:44.68\00:14:45.75
And so it's a great stuff, okay.
00:14:45.78\00:14:47.31
What happens is so then
00:14:47.34\00:14:49.03
because the wound
is three dimensional,
00:14:49.06\00:14:50.38
you have to have a
three dimensional encounter
00:14:50.41\00:14:51.72
to push it out there,
00:14:51.75\00:14:52.78
it's like
lacerating a three dimensional
00:14:52.81\00:14:54.10
wound letting the process,
00:14:54.13\00:14:55.65
well, then you
can say forgive them.
00:14:55.68\00:14:57.47
All right.
00:14:57.50\00:14:58.75
So the first step
is writing this letter
00:14:58.78\00:15:00.71
and it's with the intent
00:15:00.74\00:15:02.34
that you're not
going to mail this letter,
00:15:02.37\00:15:04.48
you're not going
to read it to anyone,
00:15:04.51\00:15:06.89
it is kind a cathartic thing,
00:15:06.92\00:15:08.65
you're putting it
all out on the paper.
00:15:08.68\00:15:10.22
Puking on
paper, okay. All right.
00:15:10.25\00:15:11.57
So number two, get some
kind of racket or basher
00:15:11.60\00:15:13.32
I brought on and just warm
up on mattress somewhere, okay,
00:15:13.35\00:15:15.98
just use your voice a bit,
00:15:16.01\00:15:17.04
no, no, just
warm up a little bit,
00:15:17.07\00:15:18.32
get your body kind
of go this is like puke,
00:15:18.35\00:15:20.49
you are preparing to a
three dimensionally puke, okay.
00:15:20.52\00:15:24.81
But when you say why are you now
processing this by taking say...
00:15:24.84\00:15:32.20
Let me get through it
and then we'll do this. Okay.
00:15:32.23\00:15:34.02
So then you warm up,
then you read the letter,
00:15:34.05\00:15:35.82
I'll ask you a question,
I'm alone, no one's with you,
00:15:35.85\00:15:38.56
the phones are off,
cell phones are off, okay,
00:15:38.59\00:15:40.65
and so you're in this room
with this bat and a mattress
00:15:40.68\00:15:42.28
and you read the
letter, dear perp,
00:15:42.31\00:15:43.73
how could you blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah,
00:15:43.76\00:15:45.45
you just puke write
this, just read it out loud
00:15:45.48\00:15:47.55
so your brain kind of is going.
00:15:47.58\00:15:48.89
Then number
four, you take that bat
00:15:48.92\00:15:51.11
and you go totally ballistic
on that mattress and you yell,
00:15:51.14\00:15:53.89
you scream and you let every
ugly thing out of your soul
00:15:53.92\00:15:58.49
and what happened is
your body will be going at it
00:15:58.52\00:16:00.92
and you'll be going and
I'll be starting to be like,
00:16:00.95\00:16:04.17
so that's all you want.
00:16:04.20\00:16:05.95
Then you're done. I
can take 5 to 25 minutes.
00:16:05.98\00:16:08.36
And when you're
done, your soul is...
00:16:08.39\00:16:11.32
So let me make sure
00:16:11.35\00:16:12.57
I'm following
this, you write letter.
00:16:12.60\00:16:14.35
Write a letter. You warm up.
00:16:14.38\00:16:15.41
Warm up, yeah.
00:16:15.44\00:16:16.47
Now you read the letter
and when we say warm up,
00:16:16.50\00:16:18.29
you're just getting
your muscles in action,
00:16:18.32\00:16:20.27
you're warming up by
this bat and something around
00:16:20.30\00:16:22.29
and it's an object not a person.
00:16:22.32\00:16:23.61
Yeah, not a person.
00:16:23.64\00:16:24.67
Then you read this
letter out loud. That's right.
00:16:24.70\00:16:27.09
And then you just...
00:16:27.12\00:16:28.48
Go ballistic. Go ballistic.
00:16:28.51\00:16:29.85
Go ballistic.
It's great. All right.
00:16:29.88\00:16:31.66
And after that
stuff comes out of you,
00:16:31.69\00:16:33.51
now your soul is
able to move through
00:16:33.54\00:16:36.44
the forgiveness
process so much easy.
00:16:36.47\00:16:39.78
Because the righteous rage is--
it's you have to do with that.
00:16:39.81\00:16:44.86
God was angry when
that happened with you.
00:16:44.89\00:16:47.84
Let me speak to someone,
00:16:47.87\00:16:49.15
whether you're a
little girl or a little boy,
00:16:49.18\00:16:51.16
whether it was mom or
dad or sexual offender
00:16:51.19\00:16:53.11
or someone
that's hurt your heart,
00:16:53.14\00:16:54.26
hurt your spirit,
hurt your sexuality.
00:16:54.29\00:16:56.09
God was watching.
00:16:56.12\00:16:57.69
He was hurt, He was angry,
00:16:57.72\00:16:59.67
He cried at the
moment you were hurt.
00:16:59.70\00:17:02.12
He didn't enjoy that
even and he's awfully mad
00:17:02.15\00:17:04.77
when what happened to you,
00:17:04.80\00:17:06.01
but you're gonna have to
take responsibility to heal.
00:17:06.04\00:17:08.60
Does that makes
sense. That makes sense.
00:17:08.63\00:17:09.81
God was there and he was upset,
00:17:09.84\00:17:12.13
He was hurt and so
we're in agreement with Him
00:17:12.16\00:17:14.83
to be angry about this stuff.
00:17:14.86\00:17:16.25
Okay, Jesus cleansed the temple
think about that, He was God.
00:17:16.28\00:17:20.15
He could have said, be
gone and then I'll leave.
00:17:20.18\00:17:23.44
Be clean.
00:17:23.47\00:17:24.50
He could have brought
the angels at he could done
00:17:24.53\00:17:26.92
it a hundred different ways.
00:17:26.95\00:17:28.00
He was showing us a method
of healing our own temple.
00:17:28.03\00:17:33.78
So what He did was first
to identify the sin saying,
00:17:33.81\00:17:37.95
you've made my
father's house a dim of faiths.
00:17:37.98\00:17:40.89
Sure, and Jesus was
able to have righteous anger.
00:17:40.92\00:17:43.41
Okay and he was
able to express it, okay.
00:17:43.44\00:17:46.36
We're allowed to have
anger and we're lot expressive
00:17:46.39\00:17:48.84
like you opened the
show with, not to sin,
00:17:48.87\00:17:51.48
not to hurt somebody.
00:17:51.51\00:17:53.03
So I'm saying
now go back a moment,
00:17:53.06\00:17:54.67
Jesus was a
carpenter before power tools.
00:17:54.70\00:17:57.63
He was very muscular man,
00:17:57.66\00:17:59.88
okay who could
walk for miles a day,
00:17:59.91\00:18:02.00
pick up trees, you know,
all that kind of stuff, okay.
00:18:02.03\00:18:05.58
He in being upset if
someone was in his way,
00:18:05.61\00:18:09.29
they need to get
out of his way, okay.
00:18:09.32\00:18:11.27
And He was very expressive
in this particular incident
00:18:11.30\00:18:13.66
because He
wouldn't turned over tables.
00:18:13.69\00:18:15.70
When someone hurts His
temple, He's always upset.
00:18:15.73\00:18:19.67
When people hurt our
temple, He's upset about that.
00:18:19.70\00:18:22.72
We're the ones
responsible to heal it.
00:18:22.75\00:18:24.51
Now if we don't heal
it, it becomes a wound
00:18:24.54\00:18:26.79
and then what
happens is I don't know
00:18:26.82\00:18:27.88
if you've ever
been in a car accident
00:18:27.91\00:18:29.04
or ski accident
or you've been hurt
00:18:29.07\00:18:30.98
and your spouse is hurt
and you got two wounded people
00:18:31.01\00:18:33.30
in the same bed
and one rolls over
00:18:33.33\00:18:35.05
and puts their arm around
the other one and they go, ah!
00:18:35.08\00:18:37.34
That hurts, okay. Right, right.
00:18:37.37\00:18:38.78
What happens is if you
don't heal with your wound
00:18:38.81\00:18:41.13
and your spouse
ends up hitting it,
00:18:41.16\00:18:43.01
and then you're overreacting?
00:18:43.04\00:18:44.22
So here's how you
tell you're wounded.
00:18:44.25\00:18:46.13
Your spouse does
a level two offense
00:18:46.16\00:18:47.92
and you give them a
level 12 response. Okay.
00:18:47.95\00:18:51.98
That you're wounded. Right.
00:18:52.01\00:18:53.84
Okay, and that's
probably not about your spouse,
00:18:53.87\00:18:55.47
that's about you
not healing the wound.
00:18:55.50\00:18:57.59
And it's not just, I mean,
I'm just thinking of something
00:18:57.62\00:19:00.19
that happened in the
office a few months back
00:19:00.22\00:19:03.94
where someone said
something very minor,
00:19:03.97\00:19:06.76
a little joke
and the other person
00:19:06.79\00:19:09.26
just totally went
ballistic and it was like,
00:19:09.29\00:19:13.01
where is that coming from?
00:19:13.04\00:19:14.71
And I knew immediately
because I know a little more
00:19:14.74\00:19:17.41
of the history of that
person that they touched
00:19:17.44\00:19:20.08
on a very deep wound and
this person was not healed.
00:19:20.11\00:19:23.76
Sure, sure, sure, and
co-workers do it all the time.
00:19:23.79\00:19:26.47
Right, so anytime when
you were talking in the book,
00:19:26.50\00:19:30.07
you mentioned that
Jesus was very deliberate,
00:19:30.10\00:19:33.30
I mean, this wasn't-- He
didn't just go in lose it
00:19:33.33\00:19:36.26
when he was
cleansing the temple.
00:19:36.29\00:19:38.02
He sat down, in
Luke He actually,
00:19:38.05\00:19:40.93
and Luke says
that He made a whip
00:19:40.96\00:19:43.38
and He went in a
very demonstrative fashion
00:19:43.41\00:19:47.55
to cleanse out,
purposely to cleanse this temple
00:19:47.58\00:19:50.43
and tell them this
is unacceptable. Right.
00:19:50.46\00:19:54.31
So what you're saying
is that we need to then
00:19:54.34\00:19:58.48
do the same
thing is realize that
00:19:58.51\00:20:00.94
we've got to cleanse our temple.
00:20:00.97\00:20:03.32
Sure. All right.
00:20:03.35\00:20:04.45
Because there were
some people who did things
00:20:04.48\00:20:05.71
that were unacceptable. Right.
00:20:05.74\00:20:07.16
Okay and that's okay,
it's our job to heal that,
00:20:07.19\00:20:08.95
so that's, you know, we
cover the gender feelings,
00:20:08.98\00:20:11.41
we cover the pastors and
the third thing is kind of
00:20:11.44\00:20:13.87
that plaque thing that kind
of builds up between couples,
00:20:13.90\00:20:16.69
because you know that
when I do marriage conferences,
00:20:16.72\00:20:19.85
I do them all over
the country and world.
00:20:19.88\00:20:21.93
I'll ask people about, you
know, when was the last time
00:20:21.96\00:20:24.16
that your spouse
actually said forgive me?
00:20:24.19\00:20:28.68
I sinned against you. I am not.
00:20:28.71\00:20:31.34
I am not, sure
that I've ever heard,
00:20:31.37\00:20:32.99
I have sinned against you but--
00:20:33.02\00:20:34.05
Yeah I'm not
talking about dating --
00:20:34.08\00:20:35.43
No, but I mean most people--
00:20:35.46\00:20:36.49
But they don't
use their language.
00:20:36.52\00:20:38.53
They might say, oh,
I'm sorry sometimes,
00:20:38.56\00:20:40.90
but they don't necessarily
own things like you know what?
00:20:40.93\00:20:44.53
I was rude to you,
I've sinned. I am sorry.
00:20:44.56\00:20:47.23
And usually what you
here is, honey, I'm sorry.
00:20:47.26\00:20:49.66
I didn't mean to be
rude, didn't mean to snap,
00:20:49.69\00:20:51.60
didn't mean to do
this, that or the other.
00:20:51.63\00:20:53.87
But no, you
don't hear people say
00:20:53.90\00:20:56.24
I have sinned against you.
00:20:56.27\00:20:57.62
All right, well, see
what happens is that ends up
00:20:57.65\00:20:59.63
with plaque and
then we've got all this,
00:20:59.66\00:21:01.22
you got your sin, I got my sin
00:21:01.25\00:21:03.21
and we've got
this plaque between us.
00:21:03.24\00:21:04.75
Now in the book we
talked about doing and owning,
00:21:04.78\00:21:06.74
see you can get rid of plaque.
00:21:06.77\00:21:08.84
Okay, whether is that plaque
that builds up in your heart,
00:21:08.87\00:21:11.58
you know that plaque that
people have on their teeth,
00:21:11.61\00:21:13.57
you know, and they get first
it's like that light yellow,
00:21:13.60\00:21:16.02
then it kind of get
sort of orange, brown,
00:21:16.05\00:21:17.23
then it kind of hangs
on the end of their teeth,
00:21:17.26\00:21:18.81
ah, you know--
That's pretty graphic.
00:21:18.84\00:21:21.95
But the smell, you're
stand back from them. Right.
00:21:21.98\00:21:24.01
And I can always tell
people a couple that has plaque
00:21:24.04\00:21:26.14
because they don't have friends.
00:21:26.17\00:21:27.93
Ooh. Uh-huh.
00:21:27.96\00:21:29.74
You see what I'm saying,
they got this parallel stuff
00:21:29.77\00:21:31.38
between them and no one comes in
00:21:31.41\00:21:32.79
because they're afraid
someone's gonna see it, okay.
00:21:32.82\00:21:35.72
So they keep people away
just like the plaque does, okay,
00:21:35.75\00:21:39.16
so what you do, is
in the book we sit down
00:21:39.19\00:21:41.14
and we have you go
through list of the things.
00:21:41.17\00:21:42.56
You've done wrong things
and your spouse has done wrong
00:21:42.59\00:21:44.78
and they actually
confess it one to other.
00:21:44.81\00:21:46.28
I've sinned against you but,
00:21:46.31\00:21:47.83
now the thing is some of
our sins are like the big ones
00:21:47.86\00:21:50.78
and you're really
angry, you yell to at,
00:21:50.81\00:21:52.45
you know, the grocery
store when you're pregnant
00:21:52.48\00:21:53.85
with the first child
for two days or whatever,
00:21:53.88\00:21:55.57
really big sins, okay.
00:21:55.60\00:21:57.78
But I've heard these things.
00:21:57.81\00:21:59.97
And then it's the things that
are not the things I don't do,
00:22:00.00\00:22:05.39
I haven't
praised you in 10 years,
00:22:05.42\00:22:07.10
I haven't touched you.
00:22:07.13\00:22:08.52
I haven't played with you,
I haven't roam next to you,
00:22:08.55\00:22:12.06
I have been kind to you,
00:22:12.09\00:22:14.08
see, those things I don't do
00:22:14.11\00:22:15.65
that can be just
as big sins. Right.
00:22:15.68\00:22:18.68
They're on the not
side of doing things.
00:22:18.71\00:22:20.73
So you make a list of
the things you've done,
00:22:20.76\00:22:23.24
done or behaviors or
beliefs that you've had,
00:22:23.27\00:22:25.46
maybe you think, well, maybe
you have a different opinion
00:22:25.49\00:22:29.41
of this person than God
has, that would be wrong, okay.
00:22:29.44\00:22:32.71
And so you put
together your list,
00:22:32.74\00:22:34.02
you confess it one to another,
00:22:34.05\00:22:36.01
okay, in a sense if we confess
our faults one to another
00:22:36.04\00:22:37.22
we can be healed,
00:22:37.25\00:22:38.87
and if you right spin it
feels much, right. Right.
00:22:38.90\00:22:41.46
Okay, so if I confess
my faults one to another
00:22:41.49\00:22:43.90
and with my spouse, we
can mutually get healed,
00:22:43.93\00:22:46.82
healed and
healing at the same time.
00:22:46.85\00:22:49.37
I mentioned to
you before the program
00:22:49.40\00:22:51.91
because I've read part of
the book that it seems to me
00:22:51.94\00:22:54.88
that this would be something
that would be difficult
00:22:54.91\00:22:57.32
to tell a man in particular,
00:22:57.35\00:22:59.88
a woman maybe a
little more malleable
00:22:59.91\00:23:02.55
about doing this exercise,
00:23:02.58\00:23:04.14
but that it seems to
me it would be difficult
00:23:04.17\00:23:05.79
to tell a man, okay,
00:23:05.82\00:23:06.85
what we're going to do
is we're gonna sit down
00:23:06.88\00:23:08.50
and you write up your list
of how you've sinned against me.
00:23:08.53\00:23:10.99
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:11.02\00:23:12.05
Let's see by the time
they get to that chapter;
00:23:12.08\00:23:13.22
they think I'm
relatively intelligent, okay,
00:23:13.25\00:23:16.25
because they've
relearned some other things
00:23:16.28\00:23:17.71
that actually work if
they done them. All right.
00:23:17.74\00:23:20.03
You see what I'm
saying, it's go well,
00:23:20.06\00:23:21.62
this seems uncomfortable
but now I can tell you,
00:23:21.65\00:23:23.74
where most people jam
up is the anger exercise,
00:23:23.77\00:23:25.72
well, that makes
sense but I'm not gonna do.
00:23:25.75\00:23:28.23
It's that people actually do
it to get the benefits of it.
00:23:28.26\00:23:31.02
And the people who do the
owning get the benefits of it.
00:23:31.05\00:23:33.27
Again, intimacy is
work, right? Right.
00:23:33.30\00:23:35.90
Intimacy is work.
00:23:35.93\00:23:37.59
If you do the work, you get it.
00:23:37.62\00:23:39.34
So if you keep this
plaque between two of you,
00:23:39.37\00:23:41.53
it's gonna jam you up
and you're gonna be angry
00:23:41.56\00:23:43.54
because this is
not the first time
00:23:43.57\00:23:45.87
you've done this for 30 years.
00:23:45.90\00:23:48.16
All right, so well, take
us through these steps again
00:23:48.19\00:23:49.78
because I don't
want to-- the steps are,
00:23:49.81\00:23:52.27
you each sit down--
00:23:52.30\00:23:53.35
Make a list of your
sins. And make a list.
00:23:53.38\00:23:55.11
That I commit towards my spouse.
00:23:55.14\00:23:56.56
Sins being
things like being rude,
00:23:56.59\00:23:58.58
being disrespectful, being,
00:23:58.61\00:24:00.24
I mean, they can be little sins
or they could be the big sins.
00:24:00.27\00:24:02.55
Yeah, but then you
know what they are.
00:24:02.58\00:24:03.61
Now what is the process?
00:24:03.64\00:24:04.67
Let's say that
you're sitting down and--
00:24:04.70\00:24:05.84
Okay, suppose we were
couple we would say okay,
00:24:05.87\00:24:08.60
I would say okay, wife, I need
you to forgive me for blank.
00:24:08.63\00:24:12.47
And what are my two
responses that are allowed.
00:24:12.50\00:24:14.04
Two responses,
you've read the book,
00:24:14.07\00:24:15.27
very good, okay, your responses
00:24:15.30\00:24:16.94
are I forgive you
or I need more time.
00:24:16.97\00:24:19.33
And that's all
I'm allowed to say.
00:24:19.36\00:24:20.39
That's all you allowed to say.
00:24:20.42\00:24:21.45
No feedback, nothing
and you both go through
00:24:21.48\00:24:22.66
your list back and
forth until you get through
00:24:22.69\00:24:24.71
the whole list, okay.
00:24:24.74\00:24:25.77
So alternating, in
other words, you tell me.
00:24:25.80\00:24:27.31
I do one, you do one.
And then it's my turn.
00:24:27.34\00:24:28.85
I do one, you do one.
00:24:28.88\00:24:29.95
And then what
happens is you get through
00:24:29.98\00:24:31.60
by 95% of them being forgiven.
00:24:31.63\00:24:33.93
There might be a few
things that are still
00:24:33.96\00:24:35.12
kind of stuck but that's
no longer between two of you.
00:24:35.15\00:24:37.49
That becomes between
that person and the Lord.
00:24:37.52\00:24:40.27
Hmm, okay.
00:24:40.30\00:24:42.86
You see what I'm saying.
00:24:42.89\00:24:43.92
So now it's
removed between you and me
00:24:43.95\00:24:45.16
because I've owned it.
00:24:45.19\00:24:46.44
I've set on the throne.
00:24:46.47\00:24:47.50
So if you have just
told me that I'm sorry,
00:24:47.53\00:24:49.91
I was very disrespectful
when I was been condescending
00:24:49.94\00:24:54.16
to you in front of our friends.
00:24:54.19\00:24:55.78
Yeah, or didn't
introduce to somebody.
00:24:55.81\00:24:57.99
So now you've
said that and let's say
00:24:58.02\00:25:00.38
that it was a particular
bad interaction and I tell you,
00:25:00.41\00:25:03.62
I need more time.
00:25:03.65\00:25:07.31
Essentially,
you've already said that
00:25:07.34\00:25:09.30
so now it's my turn to
go to the Lord and said,
00:25:09.33\00:25:11.12
Lord, change my heart,
00:25:11.15\00:25:12.94
He has asked for forgiveness
and what else can you do,
00:25:12.97\00:25:17.45
it's my heart that
needs to be changed.
00:25:17.48\00:25:19.31
It's this what
you're saying, right?
00:25:19.34\00:25:20.78
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've got a whole sermon on
00:25:20.81\00:25:22.48
and I'm not here to
preach but on forgiveness
00:25:22.51\00:25:24.55
and if you want to
increase your faith,
00:25:24.58\00:25:25.78
you have to
increase forgiveness.
00:25:25.81\00:25:27.36
Amen. I agree with that 100%.
00:25:27.39\00:25:30.17
All right, now part
of one of the exercises
00:25:30.20\00:25:32.42
and, you know,
some I know, Doug,
00:25:32.45\00:25:34.57
I just know
because there are some,
00:25:34.60\00:25:36.77
I think you're a
very intelligent man
00:25:36.80\00:25:38.59
and I know you've been on
2020 and on different networks,
00:25:38.62\00:25:43.21
Oprah Winfrey and all this,
00:25:43.24\00:25:44.65
I know that you're
very sought-after counselor,
00:25:44.68\00:25:47.94
I know you're not cheap.
00:25:47.97\00:25:49.98
Your hourly rate is--
00:25:50.01\00:25:51.12
No, we have a team of counselors
00:25:51.15\00:25:53.04
who can meet different
people's financial situations.
00:25:53.07\00:25:55.07
But the point that I'm making
is you're very educated man
00:25:55.10\00:25:58.52
and I believe
you're a strong Christian.
00:25:58.55\00:25:59.97
And as I was reading through,
00:26:00.00\00:26:01.48
there was some wonderful parts
00:26:01.51\00:26:02.85
and I got to these exercises
00:26:02.88\00:26:04.23
and I'm thinking
this is interesting,
00:26:04.26\00:26:06.56
especially after
you did the cleansing--
00:26:06.59\00:26:08.83
This is interesting
I'm not gonna do it.
00:26:08.86\00:26:10.49
I mean if--you know you
got to convince people that--
00:26:10.52\00:26:12.15
Sure, sure.
00:26:12.18\00:26:13.21
And do this so
let's have to go through
00:26:13.24\00:26:15.03
the cleansing of the temple
00:26:15.06\00:26:16.09
but then you have had that
the two chairs in forgiveness.
00:26:16.12\00:26:19.80
Yeah, the
forgiveness of the people
00:26:19.83\00:26:20.86
that they had to
go through, sure.
00:26:20.89\00:26:21.92
So at that part because
that was interesting to me
00:26:21.95\00:26:24.83
to see somebody doing that
00:26:24.86\00:26:26.34
but you're
convincing me that it will work.
00:26:26.37\00:26:28.76
We do them in my
office all the time,
00:26:28.79\00:26:29.88
they do pay a lot of
money for these exercises
00:26:29.91\00:26:31.82
if they're sitting in my office
but it's in the book. Right.
00:26:31.85\00:26:34.45
Okay, and we're giving it you,
00:26:34.48\00:26:35.87
we're giving it
to you free today,
00:26:35.90\00:26:38.03
thank this network, okay.
00:26:38.06\00:26:39.94
Yes, not the book, not
the book but the advice.
00:26:39.97\00:26:41.83
Okay, right, yes.
00:26:41.86\00:26:44.05
Okay, now, but what happens
is so you've done the anger work
00:26:44.08\00:26:47.68
going back to that section
and then there is a place
00:26:47.71\00:26:49.51
we need to say,
father, forgive them.
00:26:49.54\00:26:50.97
Okay, we need to
forgive them, okay.
00:26:51.00\00:26:52.89
So what you do is
you get two chairs out,
00:26:52.92\00:26:54.46
and you do a
little role-play, okay.
00:26:54.49\00:26:55.95
First you are the offender,
00:26:55.98\00:26:58.04
suppose the
offender was person B.
00:26:58.07\00:27:00.81
and you say, you know
what, I need you to forgive me
00:27:00.84\00:27:02.78
and then you switch the
chairs and then they say,
00:27:02.81\00:27:04.57
you can sign it if
you can forgive me.
00:27:04.60\00:27:06.08
So you're at and then you
come back to the first chair
00:27:06.11\00:27:08.67
and respond as the
perpetuator to that forgiveness.
00:27:08.70\00:27:11.60
Now, that may take a few times
00:27:11.63\00:27:13.24
so I would really get the
book and work through that.
00:27:13.27\00:27:15.30
All right and let me
just recap that very quickly,
00:27:15.33\00:27:17.55
two empty chairs,
I'm playing both roles,
00:27:17.58\00:27:19.34
first I'm the one
that's perpetuator
00:27:19.37\00:27:20.98
and I ask for
forgiveness and I change chairs
00:27:21.01\00:27:23.61
and then now I either
accept their forgiveness
00:27:23.64\00:27:26.20
or tell them I need more time
00:27:26.23\00:27:28.13
and then you just
walk through that.
00:27:28.16\00:27:30.27
Thank you, Doug,
this went really too fast.
00:27:30.30\00:27:31.93
Yeah, it's a good subject.
00:27:31.96\00:27:33.67
Thanks so much for being
here and you'll come back.
00:27:33.70\00:27:36.13
Okay, yes,
ma'am. Amen, God bless.
00:27:36.16\00:27:38.43
For those of you
at home, remember,
00:27:38.46\00:27:40.69
anger is something
that's a natural human response
00:27:40.72\00:27:44.03
but in your anger, do not
sin that's excellent advice.
00:27:44.06\00:27:47.50
Now may the grace of
our Lord Jesus Christ,
00:27:47.53\00:27:49.57
the love of the Father and
fellowship of the Holy Spirit
00:27:49.60\00:27:52.19
be with you
today and always. Okay.
00:27:52.22\00:27:55.73