Hello, I am Shelley Quinn
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and welcome again
to Issues and Answers.
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We are so glad
that you're tuning in
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no matter where you
are around the world.
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And thank you,
for this opportunity
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to come into your home.
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We have a very
interesting program today.
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We are gonna be talking
about the crisis in the church.
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And I wanted to begin
this with a little passage
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that comes from Matthew 24.
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This is the book that is
known as the little apocalyptic.
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And Jesus is
telling His disciples
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signs of His coming.
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In verse 6, He says, you'll
hear wars, rumors of wars.
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You're gonna see people that are
frighten but the end is not yet.
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verse 7, He's talking about how
nation will rise against nation
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and kingdom against
kingdom, famines, earthquakes,
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like the one that we've
seen in China and all over.
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And He goes on talking about
the tribulation and how people--
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His people will be hated by
all nations for His namesake.
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And as He is coming down here
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He says, that there is gonna
be very many false prophets
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that will rise up
and deceive others.
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He says in verse 12,
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that "The love of the great
body of people will grow cold
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because of the multiplied
lawlessness and iniquity."
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But He says that "He who endures
to the end will be saved."
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And here's how we know
when it's really the end.
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The good news of the
kingdom of the gospel
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will be preached
throughout the world,
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Jesus says in verse 14,
and then the end will come.
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How close are we to the end?
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Lots of wars, rumors of wars,
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earthquakes, famines everywhere,
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but is the gospel
reaching the entire world?
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Please help me to
welcome Ken and Julie Norton.
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And we are so glad that
you are back in 3ABN again.
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Thank you. We are too.
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Now you all are with the
Lay Institute for Evangelism.
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This is a ministry operated by
the Adventist-laymen's Services
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and Industries the Seventh-day
Adventist church, right?
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That's correct.
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How long have
you been doing this?
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Since August 2007.
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So you have-- the
Lord has entrusted
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a great ministry to you.
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Tell us just briefly
what this ministry is about.
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Because its called the
Lay Institute for Evangelism,
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our focus is on training
lay people, equipping lay people
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to be able to impact
their communities for Christ
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with all kinds of things,
to taking online training
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or programs that
we have onsite there
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but our emphasis is to
really give the lay people
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the tools they need to
get the gospel message done
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like it says in Matthew 24.
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Amen. How are we doing?
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I mean, not just in
the Adventist church
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but what is going on
in the Christian church.
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Let's focus on the
United States right now.
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I know we have
viewers from around the world
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but in the
U.S., what's going on?
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Well, I think a subtitle for
maybe what we were doing today
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would be called "the
American Church in Crisis."
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And I had never really thought
of what was going on as a crisis
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until I started
doing some research.
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You know, as we
started looking into
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how we can most
effectively help lay people.
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I started finding articles, I
ran into an article on the web
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call the
American Church in Crisis.
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And the author actually
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has recently written a
book that has that title.
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But as I started to
go through the statistics
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I was so shocked at what's
happening in the churches.
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In a typical American church
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the trend that's
happened over the past,
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especially 20 to 30 years
that just--it's really alarming.
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Than I think its some
thing that we need to understand
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and know how to try
to reverse if possible.
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What are some of the statistics?
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Do you have those
to share today? We do.
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I think the first big one is
that less than 20% of Americans
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attend church on
any given weekend.
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Now, that shocks me,
because when they do surveys
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they'll say that, what,
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73% or 83% of people
claim to be Christian.
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That's correct.
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But less than 20%
attend church. Yeah.
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The reason is it's
called the halo effect.
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Pollster who get
pollster to call people
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and they don't
want these pollster
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or you always want
to represent yourself
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as being good and all that.
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So they don't necessarily
tell the absolute truth.
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So when pollster contact them
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they kind of pad
their answers to somewhat.
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So really that when the
pollsters did their study
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it was said 40% of
Americans attend church
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but in reality when
they got out and they started
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counting actual
numbers it was around 17%.
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Yeah. Oh, that's unbelievable.
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About 17.7% is
what it was in 2004.
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And that's not every week.
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That means they are
attending-- what was it,
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between one and seven
times in an eight week period.
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So it's not every week.
So it's not even every week.
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It's just people that--people
that went to a service that week
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but maybe not even
particularly a church service.
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I'm floored, I had no
idea it would be that low.
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Well, its shocking because--
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well, its not so
shocking for pastors.
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You know, because
pastors, we look at our book
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and I am a pastor
before I was doing this.
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And you look and you see,
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you know, you
have 600 on the books
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and like my last church
and then attendance was 200,
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you know, 250. Right.
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So you have
these inflated numbers
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and I think that's weird.
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Some of the
researchers said, you know,
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we've been hearing
this 40% for years but--
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and it stayed the
same but yet we find that
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it doesn't seem
like that's a case.
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So they
surveyed 200,000 churches
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in the United
States, on the ground
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and there are
330,000 churches total
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in United States,
that's rough figure.
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But out of
those 200,000 churches
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that's what they came up with
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that there is about
17.7% that were attending.
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That just absolutely floors me.
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So what are some
of the other things
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if the American church is--
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is this decline
has it been recent
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or is it just been a
steady or what's going on?
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Well, they actually started
their research in the mid 80s
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was when they started to
put the numbers together.
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And they were shocked to find
that some of the numbers were--
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when they had solid numbers
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they put them
together, it came out with 1990.
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It was about
20.4% of an attendance.
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In 2000 it was 18.7%,
2004, where it was at 17.4%.
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The projections is by 2010,
it'll be somewhere in the 16%.
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By 2050, they are expecting
it to be between 10% and 12%.
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Now are some of these
people leaving their--
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the traditional typical
church building and going into--
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we hear a lot about
home churches and this type.
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Is that part of that
or do they consider this?
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When they started to
find out what are the--
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I mean, obviously
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your first question is
what's the core causes?
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You know, why are
people doing this?
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They found out that there is
significant house church moment
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that's happening
within the United States
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or spiritual support groups.
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Doesn't even have
to be a house church
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on Sunday morning,
or on Saturday morning
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it's something that
happens during the week.
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There's about, it's around
24%, 24.5% of Americans claim
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that they go to some sort
of meeting during the week
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but they do not
go to a traditional,
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we call it typical church,
typical church on the weekend.
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But that's significant
because that's a lot more
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than the people,
people have expected.
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You know, they think,
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we think when
someone leaves church that,
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oh, they are going golfing
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instead of going
to church or whatever.
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But they are finding
that people are looking for--
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they are spiritually hungry
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but they are
finding alternating forms
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than the traditional,
the typical church to say.
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You know, when I first
went into full time ministry
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and the Lord bought me
into the Sabbath truth,
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well, I didn't know really
about Adventism then so much.
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So I didn't--I no longer
fit into a regular church
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and I had another
television ministry.
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And what happened was,
people ended up inviting me
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and I did five
different home churches
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in five different
cities on a weekly basis.
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They reached me different times.
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And I did that
for a couple of years
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and it was amazing how
that group kept growing
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in each location but
they would be considered
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what you would
call a home church,
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you know, maybe 60 people
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to getting
together in a home setting.
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And it was, it was interesting.
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I mean, I couldn't
really consider that my church,
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I just was
going out and teaching
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but it was very interesting
to see how hungry people are
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and just not feeling like they
were getting what they needed.
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Why do you feel that--
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what do you feel that
people want in a church?
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Did the survey say
anything about that?
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They were saying that
what you have spoken about
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that they want
intimacy, they want friendship,
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they want someone
that they can confide in.
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Because the way
technology is happening now
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we can work from home
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or our own little
cubicle, our cell phones,
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all the things that
come along with a very good,
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very efficient society it
isolates us from each other.
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So we think about wanting to
get together with other people.
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They really
want that time to be,
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a time where it's
actually interacting,
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they are not just
sitting and observing.
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So that's what
they are finding that,
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if they are not finding
that in their typical church
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that they are going and
they are searching around
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in their church
hopping or group hopping
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until they find something where
they feel like if I am not there
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they are gonna miss
me, that group kind of.
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And I think its
also significant that
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one of the stats that I
heard recently was that,
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let me get this right now,
60% of those 40 and younger
00:10:54.88\00:10:58.88
have never stepped
into a church of any kind.
00:11:00.39\00:11:04.20
Sixty percent.
00:11:04.23\00:11:05.26
Sixty percent of
those 40 and younger.
00:11:05.29\00:11:07.67
So we have, our generation
00:11:07.70\00:11:10.25
that's growing up
seemingly distant,
00:11:10.28\00:11:13.97
you know, texting all the time
and having little isolated lives
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they are very
hungry for the interaction
00:11:18.44\00:11:22.44
but they don't find it, even
though they have never been,
00:11:22.91\00:11:26.91
you know, they never
stepped in to see what its like.
00:11:27.11\00:11:30.09
The perception is that
its many churches are cold,
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they are not friendly, they
hear from friends that have gone
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and so they are staying
away which isn't a good excuse.
00:11:37.13\00:11:40.82
But at the same time I
think it let us recognize
00:11:40.85\00:11:44.49
that young people
hunger for connection.
00:11:44.52\00:11:48.49
I mean, that's why MySpace
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and some of these other
things have just exploded.
00:11:51.07\00:11:53.31
Even though its still--
00:11:53.34\00:11:54.91
And for those who may
not know MySpace is a--
00:11:54.94\00:11:58.91
Social networking website.
Social network on the internet.
00:11:59.27\00:12:01.67
So, yes. Okay.
00:12:01.70\00:12:03.71
But what we have
then is you got people
00:12:03.74\00:12:06.16
wanting this intimacy,
wanting the fellowship,
00:12:06.19\00:12:10.16
wanting to
participate and be connected.
00:12:11.03\00:12:13.93
And am I to take it that from
this survey what they are saying
00:12:13.96\00:12:17.93
is that the typical church model
00:12:18.17\00:12:21.30
is not
necessarily meeting that need?
00:12:21.33\00:12:24.93
Is that what you saying?
00:12:24.96\00:12:25.99
Get this, when they
interviewed a lot of people
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that had
stopped going to church,
00:12:28.58\00:12:30.59
their number one reason why
they stopped going to church
00:12:30.62\00:12:33.61
was because they
wanted to be more spiritual.
00:12:33.64\00:12:36.51
Mercy. Yes.
00:12:36.54\00:12:38.74
Now that's frightening.
That is frightening.
00:12:38.77\00:12:41.18
And so they-- that's
why we're seeing the rise
00:12:41.21\00:12:44.89
in these intimate small groups
of spiritual support groups,
00:12:44.92\00:12:48.63
house churches, they
call them cell churches,
00:12:48.66\00:12:51.22
the different--little
bit different type of model
00:12:51.25\00:12:53.16
but they're
hungering for that intimacy
00:12:53.19\00:12:55.38
and so they are going to find--
you got a rise in this going on,
00:12:55.41\00:12:58.29
you've got
decline, a quick decline
00:12:58.32\00:13:00.62
happening in our
mainstream churches.
00:13:00.65\00:13:04.48
Six percent, this
is another statistics,
00:13:04.51\00:13:06.72
only 6% of churches
in the United States
00:13:06.75\00:13:09.78
were growing as of last year.
00:13:09.81\00:13:12.53
Most, what people
call church growth
00:13:12.56\00:13:14.48
when number
increase its actually
00:13:14.51\00:13:16.43
members transferring
in and out, isn't it?
00:13:16.46\00:13:18.57
Well, it's not only
members transferring in and out
00:13:18.60\00:13:20.96
but you have the
population growth issue.
00:13:20.99\00:13:23.42
Because between--I think
it was between 1990 and 2004,
00:13:23.45\00:13:27.42
the church
attendance stayed the same
00:13:28.09\00:13:30.95
but population grew by about
48 million in the United Sates.
00:13:30.98\00:13:34.95
So you, when they
put it all together
00:13:35.34\00:13:37.64
they realize, you know what,
00:13:37.67\00:13:38.70
there's only 6% of American
churches that are growing,
00:13:38.73\00:13:41.84
94% of churches in our
community are loosing ground.
00:13:41.87\00:13:45.84
They are loosing
people, loosing ground.
00:13:46.22\00:13:48.02
Those two things that you
are saying that are alarming.
00:13:48.05\00:13:49.69
Number one is that people don't
feel when they go to church
00:13:49.72\00:13:53.69
that if they are
gone they will be missed
00:13:54.02\00:13:56.74
and sometimes that's'
very true in large churches.
00:13:56.77\00:13:59.14
You know, you have to
have different groups setup.
00:13:59.17\00:14:02.09
We call them care
group or TLC groups here
00:14:02.12\00:14:04.74
so that we won't-- the
larger your church grows
00:14:04.77\00:14:07.91
the more you can
overlook someone being absent.
00:14:07.94\00:14:11.18
But it's that they
are not seeing the love
00:14:11.21\00:14:14.85
and the outreach
at their own church.
00:14:14.88\00:14:18.39
But the other thing
that's alarming is that
00:14:18.42\00:14:20.17
as they withdraw and
go into the home churches,
00:14:20.20\00:14:24.17
now I think it's wonderful
to have home groups underneath,
00:14:24.66\00:14:28.14
you know, care groups,
00:14:28.17\00:14:29.35
whatever you want to call
them under the church structure
00:14:29.38\00:14:33.21
but as people come
out from underneath
00:14:33.24\00:14:36.22
the umbrella of
the "organize church"
00:14:36.25\00:14:40.22
which, you know, I
had some people say,
00:14:40.32\00:14:42.49
"Oh, I don't like
organize religion."
00:14:42.52\00:14:44.09
I say, well, God does.
00:14:44.12\00:14:45.96
I mean, He organized
it, didn't he? That's right.
00:14:45.99\00:14:48.05
But as they come out sometimes
they end up getting teachers
00:14:48.08\00:14:52.05
who may not know really
what they are talking about
00:14:52.87\00:14:56.58
and you get all
kinds of strange doctrines
00:14:56.61\00:14:58.88
that get began to
be preached and taught.
00:14:58.91\00:15:02.88
So we know why
this is happening,
00:15:04.18\00:15:08.18
what's the solution? What?
00:15:08.23\00:15:10.43
This is supposed to be
"Issues and Answers," right?
00:15:10.46\00:15:12.08
But I am not sure I
have any other good answers.
00:15:12.11\00:15:15.18
We've talked about some
of the possible solutions.
00:15:15.21\00:15:19.18
I think first of
all, this sound really bad
00:15:20.03\00:15:22.95
but for the first
time, go with the crowd.
00:15:22.98\00:15:26.95
That mans, if
people are wanting intimacy
00:15:27.03\00:15:31.03
and they are wanting the love
00:15:31.22\00:15:32.75
then if you are in a
typical church setting
00:15:32.78\00:15:35.56
make that available somehow,
either through small groups
00:15:35.59\00:15:39.04
or some type of
dividing up your leadership
00:15:39.07\00:15:41.76
to be able to have
true mutual membership care
00:15:41.79\00:15:45.76
and not just
relying on the pastor
00:15:45.93\00:15:47.61
to do all the
hospital visitation
00:15:47.64\00:15:49.73
or to do all the calling and
making sure everybody is okay.
00:15:49.76\00:15:53.62
But it's a mutual care system.
00:15:53.65\00:15:55.57
So if that's what
people are hungry for,
00:15:55.60\00:15:58.08
let's not close our eyes
and just say, you know what,
00:15:58.11\00:16:00.40
well, it's just too bad.
00:16:00.43\00:16:01.46
They are not religious or
they are not spiritual enough
00:16:01.49\00:16:03.50
and we are just
gonna forget them.
00:16:03.53\00:16:04.95
No, provide
something in your church
00:16:04.98\00:16:06.90
that allows for that. Amen.
00:16:06.93\00:16:09.30
And it might take change,
00:16:09.33\00:16:10.50
and it might feel uncomfortable
at first because that--
00:16:10.53\00:16:13.44
for those of us still
in the typical church,
00:16:13.47\00:16:15.77
we feel comfortable in
that setting but sometimes its--
00:16:15.80\00:16:19.68
its time now to
start thinking about those
00:16:19.71\00:16:22.09
that are not in
our typical church.
00:16:22.12\00:16:24.91
And to sit down and to say,
00:16:24.94\00:16:27.46
"Hey, let's lay it all out
00:16:27.49\00:16:28.76
and what can we do
to help nurture around."
00:16:28.79\00:16:32.76
You know, I think I am really
excited about our church here--
00:16:34.60\00:16:38.60
meets in our
3ABN worship center,
00:16:40.53\00:16:42.77
The Thompsonville church,
it's a very loving church.
00:16:42.80\00:16:45.43
We have fellowship meals every
Sabbath after church services.
00:16:45.46\00:16:49.43
And everyone's invited
and particularly we encourage
00:16:51.37\00:16:55.08
the visitors to stay by
00:16:55.11\00:16:58.46
but a good number
of people do stay.
00:16:58.49\00:17:01.29
It's a huge fellowship dinner
and there's much interaction
00:17:01.32\00:17:05.29
and we usually
don't leave church till,
00:17:05.67\00:17:07.51
I mean, the fellowship dinner
00:17:07.54\00:17:08.57
till maybe 3
o'clock in the afternoon.
00:17:08.60\00:17:10.53
So there's praying
and elders get together,
00:17:10.56\00:17:13.95
and meet, you
know, take people off
00:17:13.98\00:17:16.82
and have
special prayers for them
00:17:16.85\00:17:18.66
and lots other
praying going on as well.
00:17:18.69\00:17:21.06
But I've been to
different churches
00:17:21.09\00:17:22.63
that instated
different models like, you know,
00:17:22.66\00:17:25.40
one church had a
very special lunch in
00:17:25.43\00:17:27.59
just for the
visitors and people.
00:17:27.62\00:17:30.18
There's all kinds
of things we can do.
00:17:30.21\00:17:32.07
We need to be
creative but we need to be--
00:17:32.10\00:17:34.96
make certain that
when we go to church,
00:17:34.99\00:17:37.17
if we are a
member of that church
00:17:37.20\00:17:39.52
that we are not
just going be fed
00:17:39.55\00:17:41.41
but that we are going to
be a blessing to someone else
00:17:41.44\00:17:44.49
and minister to someone else.
00:17:44.52\00:17:46.40
That's very important.
00:17:46.43\00:17:47.95
You know, especially
when you get back into--
00:17:47.98\00:17:51.95
you get back
into the New Testament
00:17:52.28\00:17:54.02
looking at how
members related to each other.
00:17:54.05\00:17:57.33
The way that, you
know, there were no--
00:17:57.36\00:18:00.56
some people don't know that
00:18:00.59\00:18:01.62
there were no
actual church buildings
00:18:01.65\00:18:04.23
until the 300's
and to the 400's.
00:18:04.26\00:18:06.79
Everything was
house churches back then.
00:18:06.82\00:18:09.17
And some people
say, well, that's because
00:18:09.20\00:18:11.34
they didn't have the money
to be able to build churches
00:18:11.37\00:18:14.03
or maybe there was persecution,
it wasn't convenient.
00:18:14.06\00:18:17.01
But you find that the reason
why there were house churches
00:18:17.04\00:18:20.83
was it was based on the theology
that Jesus setup of community.
00:18:20.86\00:18:24.83
It's based upon the fact that--
00:18:25.13\00:18:27.24
in 1 John, John says--
00:18:27.27\00:18:29.31
actually that would
be a really good text.
00:18:29.34\00:18:30.54
Can we look that one up? Sure.
00:18:30.57\00:18:31.60
It's interesting in
1 John that John says
00:18:31.63\00:18:35.58
the reason why
he's writing his letter
00:18:37.15\00:18:40.40
Was not for the
people to be saved
00:18:40.43\00:18:42.52
or to have a better relate--
00:18:42.55\00:18:43.93
or to have a
knowledge of salvation
00:18:43.96\00:18:46.51
which many other places he says
00:18:46.54\00:18:48.15
that that's the
case when he write that.
00:18:48.18\00:18:50.00
But it's interesting.
Look into 1 John Chapter 1.
00:18:50.03\00:18:53.12
Find that scripture.
00:18:58.97\00:19:00.00
Will, you write this thing to,
00:19:00.03\00:19:01.28
I will, I'll find it right here.
00:19:01.31\00:19:03.64
Okay, verse 3.
00:19:03.67\00:19:05.71
It comes into verse,
verse 1 he talks about,
00:19:05.74\00:19:08.59
"We are telling
you what we've seen,
00:19:08.62\00:19:09.83
what we've heard,
what we've looked upon
00:19:09.86\00:19:11.15
talking about
Jesus the word of life."
00:19:11.18\00:19:13.42
Verse 2, "The
life was manifested,
00:19:13.45\00:19:15.94
we have seen, we bear witness,
00:19:15.97\00:19:17.42
we declared to
you that eternal life,
00:19:17.45\00:19:19.08
which was with the Father
and was manifested to us."
00:19:19.11\00:19:22.23
Now look at what
he says in verse 3,
00:19:22.26\00:19:23.75
"That which we
have seen and heard,
00:19:23.78\00:19:26.57
we declare to you," why?
00:19:26.60\00:19:29.17
What does it
say? You got it there?
00:19:29.20\00:19:30.82
"So that we
declare to you that--"
00:19:30.85\00:19:32.89
I am in the, go ahead.
00:19:32.92\00:19:34.83
Yeah, okay. I'll get it.
00:19:34.86\00:19:35.89
Because I am in amplified, so.
00:19:35.92\00:19:37.02
Okay, all right.
00:19:37.05\00:19:38.08
"We declare to you
what we have seen and heard
00:19:38.11\00:19:40.17
that you also may
have fellowship with us,
00:19:40.20\00:19:43.97
and truly our
fellowship is with the Father
00:19:44.00\00:19:47.38
and with His Son Jesus Christ."
00:19:47.41\00:19:49.68
That's significant because
he is saying the whole reason,
00:19:49.71\00:19:53.63
the purpose that we've
brought the gospel to you,
00:19:53.66\00:19:56.47
the purpose that we are
sharing Jesus Christ with you
00:19:56.50\00:20:00.47
is to pull you into a very
intimate and close fellowship
00:20:00.50\00:20:04.50
which John knew was what
created true discipleship.
00:20:07.38\00:20:11.38
And you know the--what we would
consider your typical church,
00:20:11.95\00:20:15.95
the traditional idea of a church
should be this way though.
00:20:17.73\00:20:21.73
I mean, it should
be where we've got
00:20:22.34\00:20:24.56
this type of fellowship
in ministering going on.
00:20:24.59\00:20:27.83
But sadly, and I
don't mind saying it
00:20:27.86\00:20:30.79
sadly many times
that's not the case.
00:20:30.82\00:20:33.34
I mean, we've gone
into-- to church as visitors
00:20:33.37\00:20:37.34
and maybe had only the
greeters that would talk to us,
00:20:38.44\00:20:41.65
you know, and say welcome.
00:20:41.68\00:20:42.71
No one else and that's it.
00:20:42.74\00:20:45.23
Not only is it a
mindset but I think sometimes
00:20:45.26\00:20:48.42
the way that we
setup and we do church
00:20:48.45\00:20:51.80
has gone into a formal way
that doesn't create intimacy.
00:20:51.83\00:20:55.80
And so I think for churches
that have the good preaching
00:20:57.98\00:21:01.98
and have the good
Sabbath school lessons
00:21:03.04\00:21:05.67
or the good Bible studies
they do together in the church
00:21:05.70\00:21:08.82
there has to be something else
00:21:08.85\00:21:11.30
that pulls
people into fellowship
00:21:11.33\00:21:14.01
because fellowship is
where disciples are made.
00:21:14.04\00:21:18.01
I told my congregation before,
00:21:18.15\00:21:19.94
disciples are not made in pews,
00:21:19.97\00:21:22.56
disciples are
made in living rooms,
00:21:22.59\00:21:24.76
disciples are made in a park,
00:21:24.79\00:21:26.91
disciples are made where
you are able to get together.
00:21:26.94\00:21:29.74
And I am able to
say, you know this week,
00:21:29.77\00:21:31.77
I was weak this week,
00:21:31.80\00:21:34.02
I fell into this
same old temptation
00:21:34.05\00:21:37.08
that always comes,
please pray for me.
00:21:37.11\00:21:39.32
And it creates--
let's pray together.
00:21:39.35\00:21:41.31
It creates a
transparency and intimacy
00:21:41.34\00:21:43.95
and that's what
people are hungering for.
00:21:43.98\00:21:46.00
Okay, let me ask this question
because it begs to be asked
00:21:46.03\00:21:48.92
and there's someone out
there who maybe confused.
00:21:48.95\00:21:51.36
Are we saying, let's do
away with a typical church model
00:21:51.39\00:21:54.22
that we don't
need a church building
00:21:54.25\00:21:55.60
and let's just
go to home churches?
00:21:55.63\00:21:57.47
Or are we saying that
the typical model of church
00:21:57.50\00:22:01.47
needs to quit
relying on the pastor,
00:22:02.51\00:22:05.99
get the lay to involve
and let's really have church
00:22:06.02\00:22:09.99
like He wants us to have church?
00:22:10.79\00:22:13.25
That's correct, that's correct.
00:22:13.28\00:22:15.23
I was thinking when
he was talking about
00:22:15.26\00:22:16.94
sometimes we go to church
and only the greeters greet us.
00:22:16.97\00:22:19.92
I think it's very important
for each of us to have a part.
00:22:19.95\00:22:23.92
You now, I'm a greeter this week
00:22:24.49\00:22:26.22
or there is
elders or there is deacon
00:22:26.25\00:22:28.02
however the church is
setup but to really say,
00:22:28.05\00:22:30.61
even though I may
not have a church job,
00:22:30.64\00:22:33.38
I am still very
much a part of it. Amen.
00:22:33.41\00:22:36.37
So I am not just
friendly when I am standing,
00:22:36.40\00:22:38.74
greeting out the door.
00:22:38.77\00:22:40.22
My job to come in and to see
is there anyone else in need.
00:22:40.25\00:22:43.78
How can I come and
serve other people?
00:22:43.81\00:22:46.59
And in that way I think
if we all had that mindset
00:22:46.62\00:22:49.32
there wouldn't be
any unfriendliness.
00:22:49.35\00:22:52.05
Everyone would
feel a part of it.
00:22:52.08\00:22:54.43
So it's taking the role
of, I am part of the church.
00:22:54.46\00:22:58.15
You know, my husband,
00:22:58.18\00:22:59.93
we are both very affable
and amiable but he is so cute
00:22:59.96\00:23:03.93
because when we are in church
00:23:04.45\00:23:05.62
he's going to say hello
to everyone that's at church.
00:23:05.65\00:23:08.39
I mean, he walks in sometimes
00:23:08.42\00:23:10.47
if we were running just a
little before the music begins,
00:23:10.50\00:23:13.28
before Sabbath school
00:23:13.31\00:23:14.38
he's still gonna go
up and down the aisle
00:23:14.41\00:23:16.10
and say hello to everybody.
00:23:16.13\00:23:17.16
So I got to make sure to
get him in there nice and early
00:23:17.19\00:23:19.59
and he's just gonna do it. Yes.
00:23:19.62\00:23:21.46
I mean, that's who he is.
00:23:21.49\00:23:23.01
But we do need
people to be-- and you know,
00:23:23.04\00:23:25.31
sometimes the very
ones that are being quiet,
00:23:25.34\00:23:29.31
the reason they are
quiet not reaching out
00:23:30.24\00:23:32.09
because they really need
someone to reach out to them.
00:23:32.12\00:23:34.15
That's right. That's right.
00:23:34.18\00:23:35.67
All right, so we only
have couple of minutes left.
00:23:35.70\00:23:38.26
What are some of
the remedies for this?
00:23:38.29\00:23:42.26
Well, we have, at LIFE,
00:23:43.97\00:23:46.91
we've been working together
with the Florida Conference
00:23:46.94\00:23:49.73
and talking about a
lot of these issues.
00:23:49.76\00:23:51.62
Administration there
is very open to saying,
00:23:51.65\00:23:53.66
you know what, let's
get out into our urban areas
00:23:53.69\00:23:55.90
and find how we
can reach people.
00:23:55.93\00:23:57.97
And one of the
things that we are doing is
00:23:58.00\00:23:59.55
we are actually trying to start
00:23:59.58\00:24:01.45
a house church
network in Adventism
00:24:01.48\00:24:04.58
that is fully faithful
to the Adventist message,
00:24:04.61\00:24:06.87
fully under the
denomination of the organization
00:24:06.90\00:24:09.47
but it safeguards
against those kind of,
00:24:09.50\00:24:13.14
you know, heresies
coming in or things like this.
00:24:13.17\00:24:16.74
And so we are
experimenting with that.
00:24:16.77\00:24:18.71
Actually the other, one
of our other staff members
00:24:18.74\00:24:22.04
Milton Adams is heading that up
00:24:22.07\00:24:24.68
and I believe he told me that
00:24:24.71\00:24:25.95
at the end of this month
they are starting four groups.
00:24:25.98\00:24:28.22
They are gonna
start four house churches
00:24:28.25\00:24:30.26
that are networked together
and that will meet together
00:24:30.29\00:24:33.78
to do a corporate worship
00:24:33.81\00:24:35.32
but yet the basis of life
is found in that small group.
00:24:35.35\00:24:39.32
And they are gonna
experiment with it, you know.
00:24:40.69\00:24:43.23
So is this in replace
of the mid week service
00:24:43.26\00:24:46.35
or how are they're doing this?
00:24:46.38\00:24:47.41
No, they will
actually meet for church
00:24:47.44\00:24:48.93
on Sabbath morning in the homes.
00:24:48.96\00:24:51.59
They will actually meet on
Sabbath morning in the homes
00:24:51.62\00:24:54.04
and we want to
make sure that it is--
00:24:54.07\00:24:58.04
that its something
that is totally acceptable
00:24:58.08\00:25:00.93
to the conference
and the denomination
00:25:00.96\00:25:02.74
and so forth that follows along
00:25:02.77\00:25:04.81
but you know, I think
that we here in America,
00:25:04.84\00:25:07.74
when we hear about
house churches, you know,
00:25:07.77\00:25:10.40
warning signs go
off or alarms go off
00:25:10.43\00:25:12.72
but think about this a minute.
00:25:12.75\00:25:14.06
When you look at
the New Testament,
00:25:14.09\00:25:16.42
what was the model?
The model has to work.
00:25:16.45\00:25:18.94
Maybe it's not a
typical model here in the States
00:25:18.97\00:25:21.84
but some other
denominations are doing it
00:25:21.87\00:25:24.26
and its working
very successfully.
00:25:24.29\00:25:26.06
So we thought let's
not-- this has nothing to do
00:25:26.09\00:25:29.49
with doing away of anything.
00:25:29.52\00:25:31.39
It has to do, as Milton
says, adding another hose
00:25:31.42\00:25:35.39
into the pool to full
up the kingdom of God.
00:25:35.42\00:25:39.42
You know, if people don't
want to go to traditional church
00:25:39.63\00:25:42.51
then let's
provide something that--
00:25:42.54\00:25:45.05
tradition I
mean, a typical church.
00:25:45.08\00:25:46.40
Let's provide something
that they can find that intimacy
00:25:46.43\00:25:49.77
and still be fully
Seventh-day Adventist.
00:25:49.80\00:25:51.66
So we are working on
some of those things.
00:25:51.69\00:25:53.39
I don't know if
that's the whole,
00:25:53.42\00:25:56.94
its obviously,
its a piece of it.
00:25:56.97\00:25:58.84
There's a part of
me, I have to admit.
00:25:58.87\00:26:00.97
That there's almost that
gives me a little interpretation
00:26:01.00\00:26:05.14
about that
thinking because I feel
00:26:05.17\00:26:07.98
it so important to get
together the corporate,
00:26:08.01\00:26:10.53
there is such an anointing
00:26:10.56\00:26:11.59
on the corporate
worship of a large group.
00:26:11.62\00:26:15.39
I can see augmenting or
supplementing the service
00:26:15.42\00:26:18.41
with that home service
during the week or something.
00:26:18.44\00:26:23.89
So I mean, I was one of those.
00:26:23.92\00:26:26.14
You know, that's the
thing, there's this variation
00:26:26.17\00:26:28.33
and we can't put everything
into a little box sometimes.
00:26:28.36\00:26:34.23
You know,
different kinds of things
00:26:34.26\00:26:36.17
will attract different people.
00:26:36.20\00:26:38.42
We just have to be faithful
00:26:38.45\00:26:39.96
to the word of
God and to each other.
00:26:39.99\00:26:43.61
And the ultimate to
me, the ultimate purpose is
00:26:43.64\00:26:45.84
Jesus said, go
therefore and make disciples.
00:26:45.87\00:26:49.01
And it's
obvious that we are not.
00:26:49.04\00:26:51.08
So if we want the end to come
00:26:51.11\00:26:52.67
we've got to be
about our Father's praises.
00:26:52.70\00:26:54.97
Praise the Lord. All right.
00:26:55.00\00:26:56.03
That's right.
Just thank you so much.
00:26:56.06\00:26:57.74
I can't believe how
quickly the time has gone.
00:26:57.77\00:26:59.85
But Julie, thank you
for being here. Thank you.
00:26:59.88\00:27:02.47
And you're always a pleasure to,
00:27:02.50\00:27:04.56
to just look on
that smiling face.
00:27:04.59\00:27:06.39
And Ken, we thank you,
for being here. Thank you.
00:27:06.42\00:27:09.16
And by the way,
happy anniversary.
00:27:09.19\00:27:11.41
Fourteen years now. Thank you.
00:27:11.44\00:27:13.85
For those of you at
home, I hope that the message
00:27:13.88\00:27:16.56
that you are
taking away with today
00:27:16.59\00:27:18.34
is that we all have a
personal responsibility
00:27:18.37\00:27:22.81
as the members
of our congregation
00:27:22.84\00:27:24.76
to make visitors feel welcome,
00:27:24.79\00:27:27.17
to see that there is a
healthy wholesome fellowship
00:27:27.20\00:27:30.91
that's going on and
transpiring at our church.
00:27:30.94\00:27:34.27
And with small
groups, perhaps after church
00:27:34.30\00:27:37.86
or mid week service or
even seeing maybe what they--
00:27:37.89\00:27:41.99
gonna be interesting to
see how this model works.
00:27:42.02\00:27:44.53
But just know that God
wants you to be involved
00:27:44.56\00:27:48.79
in ministering to others so that
the gospel can reach the world
00:27:48.82\00:27:52.53
and Jesus Christ
can return. Thank you.
00:27:52.56\00:27:55.38