Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Philip Dunham
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000335
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:31 and welcome again to Issues and Answers. 00:33 No matter where you are around the world 00:36 we're so glad that you're tuning in 00:38 and I know you're going to be glad 00:39 that you caught this program because today 00:42 we are going to be talking about salvation. 00:45 The simplicity of salvation. 00:48 The Bible says-- actually these are Jesus words 00:51 that are recorded in the Bible and John 3:16. 00:54 He said, "For God so loved the world 00:56 that He gave his only begotten Son, 00:58 that whosoever would believe in him should not perish, 01:02 but have everlasting life." 01:04 You know, that is such a great promise 01:07 and sometimes we have a tendency to believe it up here 01:13 but we can't believe it down here. 01:15 God wants all men to be saved 01:18 and He wants us to learn to turn to Him in simple trust. 01:22 And here today to share a lifetime of learning, 01:26 a lifetime of experience with us 01:29 is Pastor Philip Dunham from Salem, Oregon. 01:32 Philip, we're so glad and I should call you 01:35 Pastor Dunham out of respect. 01:38 That's all right. 01:39 Well, we're just so glad that you have joined us today. 01:43 You were a conference pastor for many years. 01:46 You have been retired for 18 years. Yes. 01:50 That's retired as a fulltime employee 01:52 of the Seventh-day Adventist Conference 01:55 but tell me you were still fully employed 01:59 by the Lord, are you not? 02:00 Well, Shelley, in these 18 years 02:02 I have done 14 interim pastorates. 02:06 I have written two books 02:08 and countless numbers of seminars 02:11 and camp meetings and other speaking appointments. 02:14 Well, we're thrilled that you're here. 02:17 And I want to get to a very personal question first. 02:20 You have written two books? Yeah. 02:22 The first was, "Blinded by the Light." Yeah. 02:25 The second was "Sure Salvation." Yeah. 02:27 What was it in your heart or in your mind 02:31 that got you to the point-- 02:33 when did you recognize the simplicity of salvation, 02:36 the assurance of salvation that you could have. 02:38 Where you very young and have you preached 02:41 this all your life or was this something 02:42 that as you grew older and matured in the Lord 02:46 you recognized it's a whole lot simpler than what you thought? 02:49 Shelley, this is hard for me to say 02:51 because it was about halfway through my ministry. 02:56 I talked about Jesus, I lead people to Jesus, 03:00 I shared righteousness by faith. 03:02 But about halfway through my ministry 03:05 the Lord really helped me to understand the simplicity, 03:09 the beauty of salvation. 03:12 So that it just fueled me 03:14 and it's been over flowing me ever since. 03:18 As soon as I met you Pastor Dunham 03:20 I knew that you had assurance of salvation 03:23 and peace in you heart. 03:24 Before, I even knew who were because, 03:26 it just radiates from your face. 03:28 When you learn that halfway through your ministry 03:31 and its nothing to be ashamed of because I've met pastors 03:34 who have said it wasn't toward the end of their ministry 03:37 that they really recognize 03:39 that because sometimes theologians 03:41 can make this is a complicated topic. 03:44 Yes. But when you learn that it was a life changing for you? 03:48 It was life changing, Shelley. 03:50 Do you know that when I went home 03:52 from a week long seminar and I was preaching 03:55 to my congregation of the thousand people-- 03:58 we had two different services on the Sabbath morning 04:02 and people began to say, " 04:05 Pastor I don't know what had happened to you? 04:08 But keep it up." Glory to God. 04:11 And my wife said "Honey I would like to find 04:16 what you've found." Oh, wonderful. 04:19 And you know really it's-- it could have been 04:22 I would like to find who you found. Amen. 04:25 I believe I knew Jesus before, 04:27 I believe I was converted 04:29 but somehow there is kind of epiphany 04:32 and you would see something more clearly and I did. 04:36 And it's blessed my heart ever since. 04:39 And that's one of the reasons 04:40 I wrote the book "Sure Salvation." 04:42 Because, when I get blessed I like to pass the blessing. 04:45 Amen. To be a channel of blessing. 04:48 Yes. Amen. 04:49 Why is it that sometimes theologians 04:53 can make it seems so convoluted. 04:55 I grew up Pastor Philip, not knowing the true gospel. 05:01 I had a love affair with Jesus Christ. 05:04 But the denomination in which I was reared 05:08 thought that you had to be perfect to be loved by God, 05:12 the Father and so I was so fearful of the Lord 05:15 God the Father it took me nearly 40 years 05:20 to get to that point where I was set free to understand. 05:24 Sometime Shelley, 05:25 theologians have a way of confusing us. 05:29 And let me illustrate that. 05:32 "Or do you really have a grasp of soteriology 05:35 and stereological terminology such as justification, 05:39 sanctification, regeneration, forensic 05:43 righteousness, extrinsic righteousness 05:47 predestination, and election? 05:50 Schleiermacher elects all men subjectively, 05:54 Lutherans all men objectively, 05:57 Armenians all believers and Augustinians 06:02 all foreknown is God own. 06:04 Regarding the application of redemption, 06:07 Martineau says that simultaneity doesn't exclude duration 06:14 since each cause has duration 06:16 and each effect also has duration. 06:19 Right?" What did you just saying? 06:21 I don't understand the word of what you just said. 06:23 Isn't it just amazing? Yeah. 06:24 Now that's a quote from someone's-- 06:27 That's a quote from some theological jargon. 06:31 Some theological gobbledygook. 06:34 That's a good word. About salvation. 06:36 And then Shelley, 06:38 there is the text that you quoted at the beginning. 06:40 John 3:16. Yes. 06:42 "For God so loved the world, 06:44 that he gave his only begotten Son, 06:46 that whosoever believes in him 06:49 should not perish, but have everlasting life." 06:54 And I think I can relate to that text 06:57 better than the theological musings. 07:02 And it gets you know-- 07:03 as they pontificate on all of these things-- 07:05 That's the word. 07:06 Sometime the sophistries that gets so sophisticated 07:08 and it makes people look important and intelligent. Yes. 07:12 But they can loose the true meaning of the gospel. 07:15 Contrast that for us then if how would you present it 07:19 if you if I were not a Christian 07:21 and you were trying to tell me 07:23 how I could be saved what would you say to me? 07:26 Well, I want to share that a little more in detail 07:31 but I wanted to mention too 07:33 that one pastor had 600 outlines on John 3:16. 07:39 Oh, mercy. Can you imagine that. 07:41 Mercy. You speak 600 outlines, sermons on John 3:16 07:48 and you know what he said. 07:49 If all the bile were destroyed expect John 3:16 anyone, 07:55 anywhere could be saved 07:58 by believing this of quoted and cherished verse. 08:01 Amen. Isn't that interesting? 08:03 Yes. And then one inspired writer said this. 08:09 For the terms of salvation are here 08:12 laid out indistinct lines 08:14 if one had no other text in the Bible 08:19 this alone would be a guide for the soul. 08:22 Amen. Isn't that beautiful and simple? 08:25 In other words if you had a Bible 08:27 and it only had two covers and one page 08:31 and on the one page one text John 3:16 08:35 that would be enough for salvation. 08:38 Absolutely. I can relate to that, Shelley. 08:41 Absolutely. Now how would you then tell me if you met me? 08:46 Let's say that you and I were on airplane together 08:49 and I found out that you're a pastor 08:52 and I asked you Pastor Phil, I don't-- 08:56 if I told you I don't know 08:57 that I really believe in salvation. 09:01 I believe there is a God 09:02 but I don't know that I'm saved. 09:04 What would you say to me? 09:05 You know, what I have used 09:06 in the past this little pamphlet. 09:11 Okay. It's out of print now but you can get them 09:14 from different places and in Christian bookstores 09:17 it would be called the 'Four Spiritual Loves.' 09:20 All right. But another gentleman and I have made this 09:24 and we have printed a half a million copies of these 09:26 and I would have shared the four simple steps 09:30 that are in the pamphlet. 09:32 God loves you and He has a special plan for your life. 09:37 All of us are separated from God by sin. 09:40 Christ has bridged the gap between man and God 09:45 and then we must receive Christ as a personal Savior. 09:50 Amen. So those are the steps 09:52 and then I would invite a person to accept Christ. 09:57 And in this little pamphlet there was a place 10:00 that mentioned two-hearts. 10:04 And one was a simple heart 10:08 and one was the Christ filled heart. 10:11 And I would ask the person 10:12 which heart do you think represents your life. 10:16 Whose is in control is what you say? 10:17 Whose is in control? 10:18 Who is on the throne of your heart? 10:19 Who is in the throne of your heart? 10:20 Amen. Absolutely yes. 10:23 And so if a person shows then there was a simple prayer 10:27 that they could pray to ask Christ to come into their life. 10:31 So that's bottom-line salvation. 10:32 That's a bottom-line salvation. 10:35 And do you know there is writer 10:38 that I appreciate so much in the book 10:41 that I appreciate so much it's called, Desire of Ages. 10:45 And it says "It is when Christ is received as a personal Savior 10:51 that salvation comes to the soul." 10:54 One sentence, "When Christ is received 10:59 as a personal Savior salvation comes to the soul." 11:04 And that involves in it the recognition 11:07 of needing a Savior doesn't it? 11:09 Oh, yes. 11:10 Because that kind of brings in that repentance idea that-- 11:13 Conviction. Conviction of your sin. 11:16 Yes. And then when you understand 11:18 that you need a Savior 11:19 and you just said reach out to Him. 11:21 Say Lord, I need you. 11:23 I can't change myself so help me. 11:26 That's when He comes in. 11:28 And He will hear that cry. I know. 11:30 And never failing like He will hear that request. Amen. 11:35 You know, when we are talking about 11:37 the simplicity of salvation 11:40 I remember the thief on the cross. Yes. 11:43 And do you know that is such-- 11:45 I'm so glad God put that in His word 11:49 because we're looking in Luke 23:42, 43 11:54 about a dying thief and a dying Savior. 11:59 And this really underscores the simplicity of salvation. 12:04 Because, do you know that there was a 22 word 12:09 exchange between the thief and the Savior. 12:12 Isn't that amazing? 12:13 Depending on which translation you have. 12:17 Lord, remember me when You come in Your kingdom." 12:21 And He told him "I want you to tell you today 12:24 you're gonna be with me in my kingdom." 12:27 22 words, you know not 40 Bible studies. 12:31 Not long weeks of preparation. 12:34 And what did the thief have? 12:37 He had salvation. 12:39 Well, how can you go from a perfect flop 12:43 to a perfect man, a perfect mess 12:46 to just plain perfect in ten seconds? 12:50 Accepting the Lord Jesus Christ. 12:51 Accepting the Lord Jesus Christ and it's beautiful. 12:55 So he went from ranch to redeem. 12:58 From lost to saved, in that short time. 13:02 Well, I bet you can really 13:04 if you have got time to do seminars 13:06 and camp meetings I bet you can preach this, can't you? 13:10 This is message that preaches. 13:11 There was a preacher who would say 13:14 about a certain text, that preached. 13:17 Yeah, amen. And this would preach. 13:19 And that's what when Jesus said 13:22 that we were to go out and make disciples. 13:26 You know, He was saying, go teach them the things 13:28 that I've told you but it begins 13:31 with the good news of the gospel. Amen. 13:34 That God doesn't expect you to change things on your own. 13:38 He knows how powerless you are over sin 13:41 but He sent His Son Jesus Christ. 13:43 That you, He that Jesus might bright their bondage of sin 13:48 and that you can come in to the family of God 13:52 and learn to be dependent upon God to do these things in you. 13:55 Yes. Isn't that beautiful? 13:58 Do you know Shelley, 13:59 I have been so impressed as I've studied the word. 14:04 You know, people talk about well, 14:07 what about battle in the merge? 14:09 What about climbing the spiritual ladder? 14:11 What about living up to all the light that we have? 14:14 Living up to all the light. 14:15 What about sinless perfection sanctifying ourselves 14:20 and reaching the goal of godliness and godlikeness? 14:24 Do you know, let me share something right now with you. 14:27 "Salvation is a gift" Ephesians 2:8. Exactly. 14:32 "Christ himself is a gift." Exactly. 14:35 2 Corinthians 9:15 "Justification is a gift." 14:39 Exactly. Romans 5 "Sanctification is a gift." 14:44 1 Corinthians 1:30 "Repentance is a gift." 14:48 Is a gift. Acts 4:30. 14:50 "Faith is a gift." Amen. 14:52 Romans 12 "The Holy Spirit is a gift and grace is a gift. 14:59 And forgiveness is a gift." Amen. 15:02 Acts 5:31 "Victory over sin is a gift. 15:08 A new heart is a gift." 15:11 I've a text for everyone of these. I know. 15:13 "Righteousness is a gift and eternal life is a gift." 15:18 And it's not too hard to accept a gift. 15:21 No, you know what? 15:22 I think sometimes I preached 15:24 that sermon that you just talked. 15:27 I teach that when I go out. 15:29 And just recently I was somewhere 15:31 and as I was teaching these things 15:33 I had a very influential businessman 15:36 who came up to me afterward and you know what he said. 15:38 What? He said, that is too humbling 15:42 to believe that's all true, 15:43 that all I have to do is sit back and receive. 15:47 And I--the Lord put a holy boldness in my heart. 15:50 Normally, I'm pretty sensitive 15:52 and I just looked at him and I have said, 15:54 what was Lucifer's sin? 15:56 What was original sin? And I said it was pride. 15:58 It was when he let this come up in him 16:02 that he thought that he could be like God. 16:05 And I said if you, 16:07 if you're proud God's going to humble you. 16:11 But if you will humble yourself God will exalt you. 16:14 And it's all about learning to receive from the Lord. 16:18 Amen. That's what it's all about. 16:20 Yes. Shelley, I was studying with a Buddhist young lady 16:25 in Kauai when we lived there. 16:28 We had to live in Kauai. 16:30 Yeah, bless your heart that's tough assignment. 16:33 And I didn't follow the normal course 16:36 of studies that I share. 16:38 The first seven studies 16:40 that I studied with them was about Jesus. Amen. 16:43 And when I finished those I said Pauline, 16:47 what does this sound like to you. 16:49 What do you think about Jesus at this point? 16:51 And she said it's too good to be true. 16:55 Yes. And I said I know what it is but it's true. 16:59 Amen. Yes. 17:00 And, you know, you known it 17:02 by personally experiences well, 17:03 because like you it took me many years 17:07 and I had been part time ministry for many years 17:10 and especially on the sanctification part. 17:13 Because, I was working-- 17:14 I use to get hung up on Philippians 2:12 17:17 where there is he said, 17:18 "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." 17:21 Oh, yes. And I wouldn't look at Philippians 2:13 it said, 17:24 it was not in your own strength 17:26 but for its God who works in you to will 17:29 and to act according to His good purpose. 17:31 And what happened to me is that I was so busy 17:36 trying to sanctify myself until this might interest you. 17:39 I don't know if you know this 17:40 but when the Lord took me on a study of the temple-- 17:44 the sanctuary and when the Lord taught me the truth 17:48 about the Ten Commandments 17:49 that they were nailed to the cross. 17:51 And I started studying on the Sabbath. 17:55 It was my first Sabbath that I celebrated. 17:59 That I knew freedom from performance 18:01 that I was totally could receive the grace of God, 18:05 the gift of sanctification. 18:08 Because He says in Exodus 31:13, 18:10 that the Sabbath is the sign for us 18:13 to remember that its God who is sanctifying us. 18:16 Amen. I love that. 18:17 And the New Testament says that Jesus is sanctifying us, 18:20 he says the word sanctifies us the Holy Spirit sanctifies us. 18:25 So all God's asking of us is to cooperate. 18:28 Amen. To believe, to receive, to abide. 18:33 Amen. And what you-- 18:35 That's beautiful what you've just shared 18:37 because what you found was rest. 18:41 Freedom. And that's what the Sabbath is about. 18:43 Yes. And not just physical rest but resting in Jesus Christ. 18:48 For it is God who works in you 18:50 to willing to do of his good pleasure. 18:52 Amen. Now you have a certain parable 18:58 that you've said that you'd like to share with us. 19:00 Yes. That really tells us about the simplicity of salvation. 19:06 Yes. It is so simple but let me share it. 19:10 Yes. "In the city of Chicago one cold dark night 19:14 a blizzard was setting in and little boy was selling 19:17 newspapers on the corner, 19:19 as the people were going in and out of the cold. 19:22 And the little boy was so called he couldn't sell many papers. 19:26 And he walked up to a policemen and he said, 19:28 'Mister, you wouldn't happen to know 19:30 where a poor boy could find a warm place 19:32 to sleep tonight would you? 19:34 You see, I sleep in a box 19:36 up around the corner and down the alley 19:38 and its awful cold in there, to night. 19:41 Sure would be nice to have a warm place to stay.' 19:44 And the policeman looked down at the little boy 19:46 and he said 'You go down the street 19:49 to that big white house and you knock on the door. 19:52 And when they come out the door 19:54 you just say John 3:16 and they will let you in.' 19:59 So he did, he walked up the steps, 20:03 he knocked on the door and a lady answered 20:05 and he looked up and said, 'John 3:16.' 20:09 And lady said, 'Come on in, Son.' 20:12 She took him in sat him down and split bottom rocker 20:15 in front of a great big old fire place and she went off. 20:18 And the boy sat there for a little bit 20:21 and he thought to himself. 20:22 John 3:16. I don't understand it, 20:26 but it sure makes a cold boy warm." Amen. 20:29 "And later she came back and asked him are you hungry? 20:33 And he said, 'Well, just a little. 20:35 I haven't eaten in a couple of days 20:37 and I guess I could stand a little bit of food.' 20:40 Lady took him in the kitchen and sat him down 20:43 to a table full of wonderful food. 20:46 And he ate and he ate until he couldn't eat any more. 20:49 And then he thought to himself 'John 3:16... 20:53 Boy, I sure don't understand it, 20:55 but it sure makes a hungry boy full.' 20:58 And she took him upstairs to a bathroom 21:01 to a huge bathtub filled with warm water 21:05 and sat there and soaked for a while. 21:07 And as he soaked, he thought to himself, 21:10 'John 3:16... I don't understand it, 21:13 but it sure makes a dirty boy clean. 21:17 And the lady came in and got him, 21:19 and took him to a room 21:20 and tucked him into a big old feather bed, 21:23 pulled the covers up around his neck, 21:25 kissed him goodnight and turned out the lights. 21:29 And as he lay in darkness and looked out the window 21:32 at the snow coming down on that 21:34 cold night he thought to himself, 21:38 'John 3:16... I don't understand it, 21:41 but it sure makes a tired boy rested.' 21:45 And the next morning the lady came back up 21:47 and took him down again to that same big table full of food. 21:51 After he ate, she took him back 21:53 to that same big old split bottom rocker 21:56 in front of the fireplace 21:58 and picked up a big old Bible 22:01 and she sat down in front of him 22:03 and looked into his young face. 22:05 'Do you understand John 3:16,' she asked gently? 22:10 He replied, 'No, Ma'am, I don't. 22:13 The first time I ever heard it was last night 22:15 when the policeman told me to say it.' 22:18 And she opened the Bible to John 3:16, 22:21 and began to explain to him about Jesus. 22:24 Right there in front of that big old fireplace, 22:27 he gave his heart and his life to Jesus. 22:31 And he sat there and thought, 'John 3:16. 22:35 I don't understand it, 22:37 but it sure makes a lost boy feel safe.' 22:41 Oh how precious. Isn't that a neat little story? 22:46 How precious and how true 22:47 spiritually that applies just perfectly. 22:50 Yes. You know that's wonderful. 22:52 Can you share some also I know that our viewers 22:55 would love to may be grab a pen and a paper 22:59 and let's look at some scripture promises. 23:02 Some assurance of salvation 23:04 or the simplicity of salvation for-- 23:09 from the Bible for our viewers. 23:12 There so many texts-- Yes. 23:15 And in this book 'Sure Salvation' 23:17 I have included some and called them 23:19 extreme assurances and promises and I love it. 23:23 And I love this and Isaiah 61 23:25 and we don't usually think 23:26 and terms of the Old Testament 23:29 as beautiful things on righteousness 23:32 and salvation but listen. 23:34 There is a lot of it. Oh, there is a lot of it. 23:36 Yes there is. "I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, 23:39 my soul shall be joyful in my God, 23:43 for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation, 23:48 he has covered me with the robe of righteousness." 23:52 Notice Shelley, he God has cloth me 23:57 with the garments of salvation. 24:00 He has covered me with the robe of righteousness. 24:04 Amen. "As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, 24:08 and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels." 24:11 I love it. God cloths us with salvation. 24:15 Some of us are so busy trying to cloth ourself 24:19 and we're missing the point 24:20 because He has told those in Isaiah 64:6 24:23 that you righteousness is about filthy rags before the Lord. 24:26 Yes. It's got to be that we come to Him and let Him 24:29 cloth it with Christ robe of righteousness. 24:32 Yes. You know we tried to make ourselves holy. 24:37 Impossible. It's impossible. 24:40 There is only one being in the universe 24:44 that can make anything or anyone holy. 24:48 And that's God. 24:49 And you know I believe Philip, 24:51 isn't it Hebrew 12:14 regards says, 24:53 "Be holy as I'm holy." 24:57 It is a commandment but He also tells us everywhere 25:01 that anything He commands of us He is gonna do for us. 25:04 Right. And the only way that-- 25:07 I mean there's so many promises on sanctification 25:09 that show us it's all God's work. 25:11 He tells us to make it efforts as he empowers us. 25:14 We need to-- I mean He can't sanctifies 25:16 if we never pick up the book. 25:18 Right. We do make an effort 25:20 but the actual work is something that God doe sin us. 25:23 Amen. "For it is God who works in you 25:27 to will and to do for His good pleasure." 25:29 Exactly. I'm so thankful. 25:31 He is the one that does the work. Amen. 25:34 It's not my sweat and blood Shelley, 25:38 that I'm trusting in. 25:39 It's His bloody sweat that I'm trusting. 25:44 That's really good. That's very vivid. 25:47 Okay share another couple of promises. 25:49 Yes. I love this. 25:52 John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, 25:57 he who hears My word and believes in Him 26:01 who sent Me has everlasting life." 26:05 Amen. So what is? 26:07 That means right here in here now. 26:09 That's it right here now. Right. 26:10 "And shall not come into judgment, 26:13 but has passed from death into life." 26:17 Praise the Lord. I love to read things like that. 26:19 Yeah, always want to keep a balance. 26:21 We're going to have you come back Pastor Phil, 26:23 and do some more programs. 26:25 I just don't want to leave any viewer today with the idea 26:28 that we're talking about once saved always saved. 26:31 We're talking about the simplicity of salvation 26:34 but you don't believe in once saved always save, do you? 26:37 No I don't. Why not. 26:38 I find that it is not taught in the Bible. 26:41 And I could share examples of that but no 26:48 "Not once saved, always saved." 26:50 So God never takes a choice from us. 26:52 There is that opportunity that you can't apostasies, 26:55 divorce yourself from the Lord. 26:57 That's pretty stupid to think 26:58 but we have actually seen examples of that have we not. 27:01 Yes. And there are two extremes, 27:04 eternal security on the one hand 27:07 and infernal insecurity of the other hand. 27:11 And those are polar opposites. 27:13 They are and they're both unbiblical. 27:16 Totally. Yes. 27:17 So we are going to have you come back 27:20 and I'm so glad that you've agreed 27:21 and next time we're gonna actually 27:23 talk about assurance of salvation. 27:25 It's simple but you can also have assurance. 27:28 Thank you so much for being here, Pastor Phil. 27:31 You're welcome. It's been a pleasure. 27:33 For those of you at home don't forget John 3:16, 27:37 "For God so loved you that he gave 27:39 his only begotten Son. 27:40 That if you will believe in Him, 27:43 that you will not perish, but have everlasting life." 27:46 Now may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, 27:49 the love of the Father 27:50 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit 27:52 be with you today and always. 27:54 Thank you. |
Revised 2014-12-17