Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Martin Weber
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000323
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:32 and welcome again to "Issues and Answers." 00:34 We are so happy to have you joining us from around the world 00:37 whether you are watching on television, 00:39 on the internet or listening by radio. 00:42 Today, our issue is going to be 00:45 how to keep children in the church. 00:47 Now, we've discussed this a couple of times before, 00:49 so don't tune out if you think you have seen this already 00:52 because what we are going to be talking about today 00:55 is rather surprising actually to some of you, 00:58 and that is if you teach our children 01:00 to really celebrate the Sabbath, 01:02 this can keep them in church. 01:04 You, know God said to us in Isaiah 58:13, 01:08 I'm going to begin with scripture here. 01:12 He says "That if we will call the Sabbath a delight, 01:17 a holy day, honorable day", and then going on verse 14, 01:23 he says "If we are finding a joy in him on the Sabbath, 01:27 he says, then will you delight yourself in the Lord, 01:31 and I will make you to ride on the high places." 01:34 God wants us to learn 01:37 what the true meaning of Sabbath is 01:39 and believe it or not, 01:41 hope you will by the end of this program. 01:43 If you learn how to really celebrate God's Sabbath, 01:47 this can keep your children in the church. 01:49 Help me to welcome back our special guest 01:52 and that's Martin Weber. 01:53 Martin, we are so glad that you are joining us again. 01:55 All right, I feel like at home here. 01:56 Oh good, that's what we want you to feel. 01:59 Now, we are-- let me say 02:01 if I can remember everything that you do or have done. 02:04 You are the editor for the Outlook magazine, 02:06 you are the communications director 02:08 for the Mid-America region 02:09 of the Seventh-day Adventists church, 02:12 churches you have been a pastor in the past 02:14 and army chaplain, not army, but a police. 02:18 Police, police chaplain. 02:19 Law enforcement, Police chaplain 02:21 and you are married, you are father of two children, 02:25 so you've got a resume this long, 02:27 but more importantly you have recently been working 02:30 on your doctorial studies, just completed those 02:33 and your focus was on attrition in the church 02:37 and how to keep children in the church. 02:39 So this is just a fascinating, we had a couple of programs 02:43 that we've already talked about this 02:45 but how does the Sabbath make such an impact 02:50 as to keep our children in the church. 02:52 It's either a make or break experience, 02:55 the Sabbath, the Sabbath can either be 02:57 a great blessing if we look it at as Jesus did 03:01 or it can be a tremendous curse. 03:03 If we look it as the Pharisees. Yeah, exactly. 03:06 And, you know, I got in trouble 03:08 with the Pharisees one time. I did. 03:10 You know, back in Jesus' day, 03:13 the temple police they were the agents of the Pharisees 03:17 and they blew the whistle on Jesus 03:20 again and again and they blew the whistle on me one Sabbath. 03:22 Well, because they thought you are doing 03:24 something that shouldn't be done. 03:25 It wasn't a good day for me. Oh, okay. 03:27 I was there in Jerusalem in my favorite place 03:30 there is at the Western Wall, 03:31 sometimes called the Wailing Wall. 03:33 And, and the day began. 03:35 So you literally got in trouble with the Pharisees. Yeah, I did. 03:38 I thought you were making, you know, okay. 03:41 No, no, I was in trouble, big trouble. 03:43 It started when I just went down to the wall, 03:45 you know, you might have little prayer request 03:47 and then stick it in the wall. 03:48 Well, I was so in wonder about the place, 03:53 that I forgot that it's the women over here 03:56 and the men are over there, so I was just in awe 03:59 walking down to one of this place 04:02 and I saw these men with horror, 04:05 you know, these police chasing, 04:06 chasing me away from there and I finally realized, 04:11 you know, before I just got to the wall, 04:13 that I was defiling it by going, yeah. 04:15 But, that was just the beginning of the problem 04:18 because when the sun went down. 04:23 As the sun is about to go down, you know, Friday evening. 04:26 It's a place of grand celebration 04:28 and different groups come as one 04:30 absolute one of the most fascinating sites 04:32 you could see-- This is the close of the Sabbath there. 04:34 Well, both the opening and the closing both, 04:36 and I think particularly of the opening one, 04:40 I was, there is a place, a stone wall. 04:43 Yours truly, can sit toward the back 04:44 and watch the whole thing of what's going on, 04:46 a stone bench, facing the wall. 04:49 So I was listening to some messianic praise music, 04:53 you know, it's about Jesus, Messiah based Jewish. 04:56 And so I was sitting there 04:58 listening to this music on my walkman. 05:01 This is a few years ago with a little cassette, the walkman 05:04 and just enjoying the whole scene 05:07 when all off a sudden these guys in blue uniforms 05:09 came along, the temple police 05:11 and they pointed at me and they said stop that 05:15 and they pointed to my walkman, I turned it off. 05:19 You see I was, I was making the batteries work, 05:22 I was working on the Sabbath through the batteries, 05:25 so I turned it off and took the thing off my head 05:28 and they went away 05:29 and then a young woman sitting next to me, 05:34 said, "Do you know what you did wrong?" 05:37 And she was from Yeshiva, 05:39 I think, you know, one of the conservative schools 05:41 and so she wanted to make it a learning point for me. 05:44 And so she said, "Do you know what you did wrong?" 05:46 I said, well, you know I came here to have a good time. 05:48 I didn't come here to get in trouble 05:50 or getting anyone else in trouble 05:52 but that I think so but you tell me. 05:55 She said, well you made 05:58 the machine work on your Sabbath. 06:00 I said oh and you know I was over at the hotel there 06:03 and they have Shabbat elevators, 06:05 Sabbath elevators that work on the Sabbath, 06:08 do the same thing my walkman was doing 06:10 and I said I understand that sometimes 06:12 people get hired to turn light on and off on the Sabbath 06:16 so I said why isn't that wrong. 06:18 If my walkman is wrong, why, you know, 06:21 why would you even pay people to turn lights on or off, 06:26 is that not breaking the Sabbath too. 06:29 So the whole point that you are making here, 06:31 we knew literally when you said 06:32 you got trouble with the Pharisees, 06:34 I thought there was somebody in your church 06:36 that you were thinking of being as pharisaical but this. 06:38 Well, that too, that too. 06:40 But what we are talking about today is 06:45 we are going to contrast this attitude 06:48 of legalistic Sabbath keeping 06:52 to the idea of what God meant, 06:55 Sabbath as a day of relationship with Him, 06:58 with the family and with Him 07:00 and a real true celebration and rest in Him. 07:04 And how when we teach our children 07:07 how to really enjoy the stay 07:10 and make it a delightful day 07:12 that this is something 07:13 that will increase their retention in the church. 07:17 Absolutely, there are two extremes, 07:19 there is one extreme we just talked about 07:20 the legalistic 24-hour tightrope 07:23 stretched across the end of the week, 07:24 you know, get into little more of that in a moment. 07:29 But there is the other extreme 07:30 where you just the Sabbath 07:31 is sort of like a-- it's a little bit different 07:35 but not a lot different, and now of course, 07:38 we--those who are Seventh-day Adventists, 07:40 we were Seventh-day Adventists 07:41 see it in scriptures as a 24-hour experience, 07:44 it's not just two hours between mowing the lawn 07:47 and watching the ball game, you know. Yeah, right. 07:49 So it's a 24 hour experience 07:52 and to go back to the Garden of Eden 07:55 way back at the beginning God made the world 07:59 and then He rested not just for Himself 08:02 and not because He was tired off, 08:03 you see this is God, who spoke the words, 08:07 but He was inviting Adam and Eve 08:10 to celebrate with Him His accomplished works. 08:13 So the Sabbath is a celebration in entering 08:17 the identifying ourselves joyfully 08:21 with a finished work of God. Amen, amen. 08:26 And so and so, that defines what Sabbath is. 08:30 You know, and its interesting 08:31 that we want to kind of establish 08:33 this particularly for those of you 08:35 who many not be that familiar with the Sabbath topic, 08:38 is that God sanctified the seventh day. 08:42 He set it apart, He called it holy. 08:45 It wasn't Wednesday, it wasn't Thursday, 08:47 He sanctified this Saturday, the Sabbath and-- 08:51 Let me pounce in there on that work sanctify. 08:54 That word sanctify is much misunderstood. 08:58 It means exactly what you said it means, 09:00 it mean to set apart. Right. 09:02 Sometimes we look at the word sanctify, 09:04 it can be a scary word. 09:05 Like are you sanctified or are you holy? 09:09 Now the word sanctify and holy, 09:11 I'm no Greek scholar or Hebrew scholar 09:13 but in both languages the words have common roots 09:17 and simply being set apart for God. 09:20 Amen. And it's kind of like. 09:21 Which is what they root to, 09:22 that's what the definition of holy is. 09:24 Yeah, same thing, yeah, sanctify and holy same thing. 09:27 Just kind off like in a marriage 09:29 when two people are set apart 09:32 or literally sanctified from the rest of the world, 09:35 every other woman or man on earth, 09:37 for each other, for this relationship together, 09:41 so sanctify is its not like a Clorox word or you know. 09:45 It's a beautiful word. 09:46 Yeah, it's a perfume, it's relational. Amen, amen. 09:50 And the point that I wanted to make though for our viewers 09:53 who might not be that familiar with a Sabbath 09:55 is that it wasn't a Jewish, the seventh-day Sabbath 10:00 wasn't a Jewish tradition, 10:02 it wasn't something that God just spoke to the Jews. 10:05 He had previously, 10:07 He instituted it in the Garden of Eden 10:10 just as He instituted the relationship of marriage, 10:14 and it was a very special day to have relationship with Him 10:19 and as you said to not be legalistic 10:22 but to intimate to this time 10:25 of celebrating His accomplished works. 10:28 Yeah, yeah, the Sabbath and marriage 10:30 with the family, marriage and the family 10:32 are like two flowers plucked from the Garden of Eden 10:35 that are still here for us today. 10:36 And I think Satan has done his very best to destroy both. 10:41 We all know what he's done for a marriage and a home, 10:44 but also about the Sabbath 10:47 to either destroy by making it a great burden 10:52 or destroy it by causing it to be seen as 10:54 something you can just ignore 10:56 instead of set aside, instead of setting apart, 10:59 just set aside, leave it away, you know. 11:01 Now, interestingly for your doctorial studies, 11:04 what you did was you surveyed pastors and you were talking 11:11 specifically with pastors and questioning, 11:13 they were answering, 11:14 answering 111 questions on your questionnaire. 11:17 These were pastors who had grown children 11:19 some who had left the church 11:22 and others who were still in the church 11:24 and what you learned was that 11:27 the way in which they treated the Sabbath 11:30 was one of the determining factors, 11:33 one of the influencers on whether or not 11:36 their children remained in the church 11:39 after they became adults. 11:41 So what was some-- 11:44 for those who had really positive 11:46 how did they celebrate the Sabbath? 11:48 Yeah, they made it a family experience. 11:51 Now, Sabbath for pastors 11:54 is kind of like meal time for mother to cook, you know. 11:57 It's a very busy time 11:59 and so it can be quite a challenge for pastors 12:03 on the Sabbath to be relational with their families. 12:06 To realize that yes, they are going to preach, 12:10 yes, they have special things to do with the congregation 12:13 but their first congregation as a family, 12:17 they are all families, you know. 12:18 That's good, that's good way to put it, 12:19 they're first congregation, yes. 12:22 And to realize that-- it's got to start there, 12:25 they got to have that family experience, 12:28 let the Sabbath be a delight. 12:31 Even if they are driving around for four churches, 12:34 you know, to somehow through it all 12:36 over that span of 24 hours find some joy with the kids 12:42 and with their spouses together as a family. That's good. 12:46 And you know, we have to look at the Sabbath 12:49 what are the reasons for the Sabbath, 12:50 not I like the way you stated that 12:52 that this is the time God invited us 12:55 to celebrate His accomplished works. 12:59 And so we are looking to Him not only as a creator 13:03 but the one who recreates us in Chris Jesus. Yes. 13:06 But one of my favorite Sabbath scripture is Exodus 31:13 13:10 because it says the Sabbath is a sign 13:13 that it is God who sanctified us. Yes. 13:16 So that's where we are really entering into His rest 13:20 knowing God is going to work in us 13:22 to willing to act according to His good purpose. 13:25 So if you contrast and we can get into 13:27 if you get some time here, how to celebrate the Sabbath 13:30 and make it a joyous occasion. 13:32 But let's look at the other side of the coin for just a moment. 13:36 For those who come in and make Sabbath 13:39 a lists of do's and don'ts and kind of that stop 13:43 and go Sabbath that you rush right up to the edge of it 13:46 and as it come rolls in on Friday evening, 13:49 where you say okay, got to stop what you are doing, 13:51 now you can't do this, you can't play, 13:53 you cant have any fun, you got to sit here 13:55 and then you are just sitting and the kids are waiting 13:58 and watching for the time that Sabbath should pass. 14:02 Sure, yeah, the list of rules is kind of like in a marriage, 14:08 in a love relationship you can have a bunch of rules there, 14:11 there are principles and non-negotiables, 14:15 you know, there is no doubt about 14:17 who husband and wife are going to sleep 14:19 with tonight, each, each other. 14:20 That's non-negotiable 14:22 but not to have a bunch of rules about that, 14:24 same with the Sabbath but the Pharisees 14:28 and they were not the bad guys, 14:30 they were the good guys, 14:31 they wore the white hats so to speak. 14:34 They were mis-intention though, 14:37 they thought they could protect, 14:39 that was the word they used. 14:40 They could protect the Sabbath, 14:41 they came up with something like 1400 man-made laws. 14:47 You couldn't let spit full out of your mouth on the grass, 14:51 because you make the grass grow or work on the Sabbath 14:54 and you couldn't carry your hanky on the Sabbath. 14:58 If you had a running nose, 15:00 you pinned it to your garment within reach of your nose 15:02 where you couldn't carry it, that would be work. 15:06 So all these rules 15:09 but to step back as we are trying to do here 15:13 and say, why is the Sabbath there in the first place. 15:17 It's because we are primarily relational people 15:22 more important than what we do is who we are. 15:26 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work. 15:31 But the seventh-day is the Sabbath, 15:34 the seventh day is that day 15:35 when we realized that primarily it's not what we do 15:38 but who we are in relationship to God, 15:42 in relationship to each other. 15:44 So all week long week we, you know, 15:47 we're doing this, doing that 15:48 out of time, out of touch too often. 15:50 And of course families need time to get during the week 15:53 but to have a 24 hour-- 15:55 Oh, boy. Yeah. 15:57 If it weren't for Sabbath, there would be some, 16:00 for some families, there would be no time to get in 16:03 I mean that's how bad it gets in this hurried world. 16:07 In your questionnaire did you find any 16:11 or did you ask or did they volunteer any ideas 16:14 of how those who really put up in their children's heart 16:20 that the Sabbath was a delight, 16:21 how they celebrated the Sabbath 16:23 were there any special traditions or techniques. 16:26 Yeah, I didn't get into that. 16:28 Yeah I didn't get into that type of detail. 16:30 This is just what, what emerged from the data 16:36 but one thing that was a red flag issue was 16:41 it involved the Sabbath 16:44 it was about the age range of clergy parents, 16:51 whose kids leave the church 16:54 if they began ministry in their 30's 16:58 it was dangerous for their families 17:01 because, because the kids had been used 17:05 to celebrating the Sabbath on a different way 17:07 suddenly daddy is a pastor, 17:09 he's has got lots of duties on the Sabbath 17:12 and daddy is not there for them anymore 17:15 and so it was a real issue in attrition, 17:21 but those parents that manage somehow 17:23 and I didn't ask how, it's just that some 17:26 did manage to still make it 17:30 a joyous experience for the family. 17:33 You know, so we're talking 17:34 specifically here about pastors. Yes. 17:37 And I know that Brenda Walsh, her father was a pastor, 17:41 I know he pastored multiple churches 17:43 but they all went with him to each church 17:46 and they sang and they did, 17:47 you know, they participated in their worship 17:50 and actually up front on the platform 17:55 so they feel a very special part 17:58 because he involved them in ministry, 18:00 ministering the kids, ministering to the people, 18:03 so that's a very, very issue-- 18:08 an issue that's very specific to pastors. 18:11 But now for just the general people, 18:14 if a pastor's child is going to perhaps leave the church 18:20 because they had this very legalistic outlook 18:26 and for Sabbath, it surely-- 18:30 that well, it actually apply to all families. 18:33 What would be your idea of how, 18:35 how would you celebrate a Sabbath. 18:37 Well, I think I think it's important 18:39 to get the Biblical back kind of thing, 18:42 if we can get into that little deeper, 18:44 which I think will inform us how about these specifics. 18:49 So there is creation, 18:51 you know, there is no sin everything is perfect, it's Eden 18:54 but then to think of Jesus who came as Lord of the Sabbath 18:59 and He came in a context of legalism 19:04 but He came with freedom, 19:06 so many of His works of healing and love were on the Sabbath. 19:12 He was showing us 19:13 that the Sabbath is a time to experience healing, 19:16 not only physically but emotionally relational healing 19:20 and then the way He died, 19:24 the timing of His death is highly significant 19:26 regarding the meaning of the Sabbath. 19:29 And how we view the Sabbath 19:30 and how the Sabbath can be a blessing instead of a curse 19:33 when it comes to attrition of kids. 19:37 He died of course on a Friday afternoon 19:40 and He died with the words "it is finished." 19:44 And though that word finished, 19:45 He wasn't saying I am finished, 19:47 you know, they finally got me, 19:48 they have been trying a long time, 19:49 now they got me where they want me. No, no. 19:52 He is accomplished, Father we did it, it is finished, 19:57 and then, then He rested over the Sabbath in the tomb 20:02 and there in Jerusalem, I got to sit in the-- 20:05 in the what some say it's a Tomb of Christ, 20:08 other say, no, it's somewhere else but. 20:11 There is a garden tomb and it was a rainy day 20:14 and nobody, nobody was there. 20:16 I got to be there for about an hour 20:18 just sit inside that tomb 20:19 and just think these things over, 20:20 how that Sabbath, how Jesus is in the tomb 20:23 and that was very significant 20:25 because once again on the sixth day 20:28 He finished the work just like our creation. Yes, yes. 20:32 He finished the work and He rested. 20:35 Now the word rest does not mean rust, 20:37 it does not mean an activity. 20:39 It means to take a break to be relational 20:42 and set up to be utilitarian. Right. 20:45 And so in fact the word Sabbath literally means cessation. 20:51 And that word cessation is used like with a war having a truce-- 20:57 He maketh wars to cease, Psalm 46 to make it wars. 21:02 Yeah, to Shabbat to cease, 21:04 so, so, there is a cessation that the work is done 21:09 and done so well nothing more can be added. 21:12 God Himself can't improve on the work 21:16 that is being rested from. Absolutely. 21:18 And so the spiritual blessing here for us 21:24 is to realize that when Jesus Christ on the cross, 21:28 quite now that it is finished, 21:29 He was talking about our relationship 21:32 through Him with the Father, 21:34 that there is nothing more to do for us 21:37 to be able to have a relationship with the Father. 21:39 It was accomplished, yeah. Yes. 21:41 And so when we on the Sabbath rest, 21:45 when we as the sun goes down Friday evening 21:48 that's when it starts of course 21:50 and we set aside our works, they are never done. 21:54 Even the law says, Six days shalt thou labor, 21:56 and do all thy work, there is always something left to do. 21:59 There is always a weed left to pull in the garden 22:01 or some spider web to get out off the closet, you know. 22:05 I always got a mess lots of stuff left to do. 22:08 Yeah, yeah but we rest any where not because our work is done, 22:13 but because Christ finished his work 22:16 and so that teaches us the Gospel every Sabbath 22:21 it's a teaching tool of the Gospel to realize that 22:24 we rest in God not because of our finished work 22:29 but because of Christ finish work for us. 22:33 And when we enter into that rest 22:36 when we set a side our unfinished works and we rest. 22:40 It is a such a not only a physical relief it is that 22:44 but it is a spiritual way to realize 22:47 I don't have to worry about the fact 22:50 that I am not making a daring off, I am not doing. 22:54 I agree, you know when I didn't celebrate 22:57 my first Sabbath in the year 2000 23:00 and the lord took me 23:01 because I didn't grow up in Adventist 23:03 and I probably would have not probably 23:06 I was very resistant to the teaching 23:09 but the lord took me through a deep study 23:11 and when I discovered the truth from the bible for my self 23:15 and I celebrated that first Sabbath, 23:17 it was the first time 23:19 I have ever experienced freedom from performance. 23:22 All my life I had performed from a families love, 23:25 I have performed for gods love thinking that 23:29 if only I can be good enough. 23:30 Because I have this view of a father as being warned 23:34 that it was ready to just zap me 23:36 any minute if I did anything wrong, 23:38 and when I discovered that 23:40 what the Sabbath is all about the it was a day 23:43 when I was to celebrate recognize 23:45 and it's a sign that he is the one, 23:48 that's gonna do this great work in me. 23:50 Aw, it's such a relief. 23:52 I mean it was so glorious, 23:54 I can, first time in my entire life, 23:57 that I had not had to perform 24:00 and from time to time even now, 24:04 all these years later I will get into a performance mentality 24:08 and I think we all do it and as the Sabbath rolls around, 24:12 the Lord frequently has to remind me of Galatians 3:3 24:16 you foolishly having begun in the Spirit, 24:19 are you now trying to perfect it in the flesh 24:22 and it came by the Sabbath rolls 24:24 and you remember, God has accomplished it all, 24:29 all I have to do is to learn to surrender to Him, 24:32 being dependent upon Him 24:34 and to know that I can have a assurance of the salvation 24:38 if I'm in Jesus Christ because 1 John 5:11 says 24:41 this is the testimony he who has the son 24:45 has a internal life, so how beautiful? 24:47 Yeah, now of course some people will say well, 24:51 well Jesus is my Sabbath so I don't need the day 24:54 because I have the person of Jesus 24:57 and so I'll use-- I used to say that. 24:58 Yeah, So, I'll ask them 25:00 okay now is Jesus' your baptism? That's good. 25:04 Everybody believes in baptism of one kind or another, 25:06 of course the other Bible talks about immersion, 25:08 you know that's the Bible way 25:10 but everybody where they sprinkle 25:11 they do some kind of baptism 25:13 so that okay now if, if Jesus is your baptism. 25:17 No, baptism is a symbol of entering into Jesus, 25:21 like that is exactly what the Sabbath is 25:23 what baptism is once a life time 25:26 is with a Sabbath is every week. 25:28 It's a symbol of entering into a Jesus, 25:31 Jesus is not my Sabbath, Jesus is not my baptism, 25:35 baptism and the Sabbath are both teaching tools 25:38 of entering the rest of the Jesus Christ, 25:42 the gate way to enter into Jesus Christ 25:44 in his finished work for us. 25:46 And it certainly help us to keep up priorities straight 25:48 because if we work for the Sabbath, 25:50 I think I have just worked my self today. 25:52 I freely confess I'm workaholic 25:54 and the lord still working on me. 25:55 And we have to perform it, 25:57 you know and The Bible said do all the work, 25:59 you know we get paid to perform 26:01 and that what the Sabbath tells us 26:04 is more important than anything we do as important as that is, 26:09 more important is who we are relationally 26:13 and that tells me for example, 26:14 if for example there is some accident, 26:16 I'm handicapped and unable to perform anymore 26:22 I'm no lesser person 26:23 because I still I'm still here I can be relational. Yes. 26:28 I can be relational even if when I say get older, 26:31 and older you know and I can do less 26:34 and less of this or that 26:36 am still relationally 26:39 fundamentally a relational person 26:40 and I still have that most important significance 26:46 to be rather than more important than to do. 26:49 Martin, I can't believe how fast this time went by 26:52 but this is one of my favorite topics 26:53 so, I want to thank you again so much 26:56 for coming and joining us 26:58 and we still want to have you come back again. Thank you. 27:01 Okay, you know for those who at home, 27:04 just remember this don't make the Sabbath a bunch of Do's 27:08 and Don't remember it's a principle 27:10 of being a day of delight in the Lord, 27:13 finding the delight in the Lord, 27:15 resting in what he is done for you, 27:17 knowing that he is not only your creator 27:19 but the one who is recreating you 27:21 in the reach of Jesus, knowing he is the one 27:24 that's going to complete the good work in you, 27:26 he says the Sabbath is a sign 27:28 that I'm no one that sanctifies you 27:31 so when we come to the lord 27:33 and make the Sabbath day 27:35 a wonderful experience for our children 27:38 this will help them stay in the Church 27:41 because they develop a one-one relationship with Jesus, 27:45 and that's what its all about. 27:47 Now, thank you so much for joining us 27:49 and may the grace of Lord Jesus Christ, 27:51 the love of the Father 27:52 and the fellowship of the holly spirit 27:54 be with you always. |
Revised 2014-12-17