Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Ron and Nancy Rockey
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000319
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00:30 Hello, my name is Shelly Quinn.
00:31 And welcome again to "Issues and Answers." 00:34 It's always a joy to have you tune in. 00:36 We appreciate your emails and your letters. 00:39 And we're just so glad that you've joined us. 00:41 And you're going to be glad that you've joined us today 00:43 because we are going to be talking about 00:46 'How to get off that road to self defeat?' 00:50 You know, the Bible says in Proverbs 14:12, 00:53 "There is a way that seems right unto a man, 00:56 but in the end, in thereof is the way of death." 01:02 Sometimes we are just so blinded 01:05 by our own circumstances and I'm going to 01:09 even say darkness of our hearts 01:10 because we don't understand what we're doing. 01:12 That we're going down a road that's such a wrong road 01:16 and the Lord is trying to get our attention and say, 01:19 "Life doesn't have to be this way." 01:23 Help me to welcome back, please our very special guest 01:27 Drs. Nancy and Ron Rockey. 01:30 We're so glad that you're back with us again. 01:33 Thank you. Glad to be with you. 01:34 Now you all are the founders of the Life Renewal Institute. 01:39 Tell me what that is, Ron? 01:41 It is where we help people to renew their life. 01:44 That's a good name for it Life Renewal. 01:48 And you do that, how? 01:50 Not by changing and giving them tools 01:52 to change behaviors, but to giving them tools 01:55 and understanding, so they can change the character defect, 01:58 their thoughts and feelings. 02:00 When you change the character defect 02:01 the behaviors will follow. 02:03 That's good. That's good. 02:04 Now you both are family life 02:08 and health educators not health. 02:10 Help me say that right? Emotional health and life. 02:12 Emotional health, okay, that's good. 02:14 And you both have master's degrees 02:18 in family counseling and doctoral degrees in Psychology. 02:22 So what we are going to be talking about today 02:25 is that road to self defeat. 02:29 And kind of, set us up for this. 02:31 How do we get on the road to self defeat? 02:34 Give us just a little synopsis. 02:36 We get there because it's a gender for us. 02:40 He wants us there. 02:42 He wants us to be on the road that seems 02:46 like it's the right road like Scriptures say, 02:50 "There is a way that seems right." 02:52 Because that's the only thing we've ever known or ever seen. 02:55 Right. So it's seems right to us. 02:57 Seems natural. It seems normal. Natural, yeah. 03:00 The truth is when we are wounded early on 03:03 by rejection-- sexual, physical, emotional abuse or by neglect. 03:10 Or even an early on disease 03:13 where the child is in the hospital 03:15 for extended periods of time. 03:16 Okay. Same thing. 03:17 And has to be separated from-- 03:19 The parents. 03:20 Primary caregivers mummy and daddy. 03:22 When these wounds happen to us, 03:26 we live through them as though 03:29 they were filters for the rest of our life. 03:32 Unless, we are given the help and the assistance 03:35 that we need to get beyond the wound, 03:38 so that we look toward the road to victory 03:42 instead of, the road to self defeat. 03:44 We stay on that self defeat road 03:46 because we think we have to. 03:49 We're driven there in order to survive. 03:53 Because what happens is those wounds 03:56 out of those wounds we draw conclusions 03:58 and those conclusions are about our life, 04:00 are what seems right to us. 04:03 Right. So let me see if I'm even beginning to grasp this. 04:07 Let's say that someone has been emotionally abandoned 04:10 as a child, maybe their parents were always there. 04:12 They had plenty to eat, you know, roof over their head, 04:15 but they didn't have that emotional nourishing 04:19 that they should have. 04:21 Their parents were just absent, if you are awakened. 04:23 So are you saying that because they grew up this way then, 04:27 they feel like well, this is normal, this is natural. 04:31 I am not worthy of this, so they actually set up 04:36 circumstances in their life. 04:37 They choose this road in which they will walk this path 04:41 and they set up circumstances in their life to keep 04:47 this in perpetuity, this emotional abandonment. 04:50 That's exactly correct. That is correct. 04:51 All right. 04:53 And sad but true, sad but true. 04:55 We are afraid that if we don't take charge, 04:59 then we're going to be wounded again. 05:02 And so we live in fear and fear that slippery slope 05:07 that sends us on the road to self destruction. 05:12 And so fear then drives us to developing techniques 05:16 in order to try to feel safe or to numb our pain. 05:22 So they can be addictions of all kinds. 05:25 They can be anger or worthlessness, 05:30 and so I will withdraw from people 05:33 and from society, poor relationships. 05:37 These are all techniques that we develop 05:40 in an attempt to survive. 05:44 And I know for me early on in my life 05:46 what I did was, I had a defensive wall 05:49 that I would keep, you know, I kind of, 05:52 kept my distance from people because of pain level 05:57 and as long as I didn't let you get 05:59 beyond that point emotionally, 06:00 then you really couldn't hurt me. 06:02 That's right. 06:03 And it took me a while to learn how to let down 06:05 that wall and be vulnerable. 06:06 That's the way it was in our marriage. 06:08 When we got married, 06:10 Nancy used to say to me, "Do you love?" 06:12 And I say, "I haven't left yet." 06:15 And for two years it was this-- drove me nuts. 06:19 She said, "Do you love me? 06:20 Do you love me?" Well, sure I love you. 06:21 Well, why don't you say so? 06:23 Why do I have to say it, I said it once. 06:24 And why do you have to keep coming 06:26 around the same old mountain. 06:27 But what really the issue was that, 06:29 I didn't experience her love. 06:32 Yeah. How could I? 06:33 With my early beginnings of severe damage 06:36 and severe rejection, I really wanted somebody 06:39 to love me, and to hold me and to say that, 06:42 that you're special and all those kinds of things. 06:44 And when she did say that to me 06:46 it wasn't computing, it was abuses to me. 06:50 So he actually, even on our honeymoon, 06:53 on the 5th day of our marriage, he pushed me away and he said, 06:57 "Will you leave me alone? 07:00 What did I do, marry a slut? 07:03 Oh, mercy. Yeah. 07:04 So when I-- Now she rejects me-- 07:07 After that little comment, she rejects me. 07:09 Now I feel loved. 07:11 Oh, mercy. Okay, so... 07:13 And I thought to myself when he said it. 07:15 And what a convoluted mess we have going on here. 07:17 Oh, absolutely. 07:18 So basically, you push her way, your rejection to her 07:24 is making you because of your background, 07:26 you've totally devastated-- 07:30 So she draws away and because she is withdrawn, 07:33 you feel like this is normal and natural 07:36 because of this rejection. 07:37 It's seems right unto a man. Because I feel rejected. 07:39 Oh, mercy. And the end thereof is death. 07:42 Oh, mercy. 07:43 And it would have been definite death to our marriage 07:46 and nearly was. 07:48 We used to say, we thought our marriage 07:50 was a match made in heaven, but actually 07:53 on our wedding day that match lit an inferno, 07:57 that nearly destroyed us and our children. 08:02 And you know what, it's not unusual 08:06 and it's not just the non-Christians 08:10 that get into this mess. 08:12 Because Satan has-- Christ Himself felt rejected. 08:15 And Satan has an agenda. Yeah. 08:18 And isn't he going to come after the Christians? 08:21 Absolutely. You know... 08:23 I have to say something though when you said 08:25 that Christ experienced rejection. 08:28 But, you know, he didn't take offence like we do. 08:30 No, because He was connected with the Father. 08:33 He went beyond His dysfunctions and I don't like 08:35 that word, but He was brought up-- 08:39 He went beyond his wounds. His wound. 08:40 Yes, he went beyond His wound. 08:43 Why, because he had no sort source, 08:45 except for the Father. 08:47 That's wonderful. 08:48 And you know the other thing is too that God taught me, 08:51 is that...what was the word that we were using offence, 08:58 a spirit of offence. 09:00 He said it's the spirit of pride. 09:01 You bet. 09:03 And if you... Christ had no pride, 09:05 so that's why He couldn't be offended. 09:07 But anyway, on to our thing, so here we've got 09:10 these little techniques that we're using, 09:13 but the result of this, the destructive result of this 09:17 Is that we pay a price for every technique 09:21 that we develop. 09:22 The alcoholic may lose his job, his relationship 09:26 and certainly his finances. 09:28 The rager, what happens to the rager. 09:32 Well, who wants to live with the rager, 09:34 who wants to be around them? 09:36 And so they definitely lose relationships 09:39 and of course, they're going to lose their jobs too because 09:42 As well as their health. 09:43 No, employer wants somebody like that. 09:46 And, yes, they're going to lose their health. 09:48 We know that anger causes major physical illness. 09:52 So people then end up going down this path 09:57 that seems right to them 09:58 because it's the only thing that they've ever known. 10:00 And it's just absolutely in the opposite direction 10:04 that what God would have them, go down. 10:07 But they get so upset that they end up 10:10 leaving relationships, leaving church-- 10:12 Leaving everything. 10:14 And they say, well, we're not paying such a bad price. 10:17 They minimize. 10:19 After they realize there are paying a price, 10:21 they try and deny that they are. 10:23 And then they start blaming the universe 10:26 for all of their issues. 10:28 If I had a better wife, wasn't there the fellow 10:32 who said to you, "I'm so glad 10:34 and will be so glad when the Lord 10:36 finally comes, 10:37 because I won't have to live with her anymore." 10:40 And he pointed to his wife. 10:41 And I said, "Sir, you're correct. 10:43 You'll not have to live with her anymore." 10:46 He says, "Glad to here that." 10:47 I said, "You know why?" 10:49 He says, "No, because you won't be there." 10:50 Yeah. 10:52 You're not given up to that first resurrection. 10:54 Sir. 10:55 With that kind of attitude. 10:57 And so we blame the universe if I had a better wife, 11:00 if I had better parents. 11:02 If, if, if, if, if, if. 11:03 Did I didn't really blame you though, did I? 11:06 Sweet heart, for everything. 11:08 Absolutely, everything. Oh, that's true. 11:10 Well, I did blame you for your sneezing habits. 11:13 And everything else. 11:15 You know, she used to just sneezes in threes. 11:18 I'm telling you what. 11:19 The more I get to know you, I never sneeze just once, 11:23 so you're not a just too much a lot. 11:24 Too much a lot. 11:26 I sneeze once and get it over with. 11:27 You don't sneeze in threes. 11:30 And then we finally develop as close to death 11:34 as we're going to get which is denial. 11:38 And we jokingly say, "Well, The Nile is not just 11:41 a river in Egypt." 11:43 Denial in fact, is the anesthesia that Satan 11:47 uses when he wants to rip your heart out. 11:51 Because this makes us apathetic about the situation 11:55 we're not going to do anything. 11:56 And on the emotional tone scale, 11:59 apathy is the step just before death-- 12:04 Wow. And apathy is a Laodicea. 12:08 I have need of nothing. 12:11 There is nothing wrong with me. 12:14 Everything I have come from a perfect home 12:16 and a perfect background. 12:18 There's nothing wrong with me. 12:20 I had one gentleman at our seminar, 12:22 say "My parents are perfect and I had a perfect life 12:26 and my marriage is perfect." 12:27 I grab the hold of his sleeve and he says, 12:29 "What are you doing?" 12:30 I said, "Tell me more about your parents 12:32 and your background and your marriage." 12:33 He's going on, "What are you doing?" 12:34 I said, "Don't worry about that, tell me some more." 12:36 He goes on and on and on 12:38 and he finally got a little ticked off, he says, 12:40 "What are you doing holding my sleeve?" 12:43 I said, "I'm holding on, you're going to ascend 12:45 any minute and I'm going to go with you." 12:48 If we're walking the face of the earth 12:50 or our parents are walking the face of the earth 12:53 or they're buried in it. 12:55 They had major issues. 12:56 It's called sin. All have sinned. 12:59 All have sinned and fallen. 13:01 And our falling short of the glory of God. 13:04 That's a linear verb. 13:06 Let me ask you this because what you're just saying 13:09 is you recognize the reason you had, 13:12 I mean, you're doing that telling him, 13:13 he's acting like, he's getting rid of the sin, 13:15 but you recognize this is denial. 13:18 Absolutely. That means that-- 13:21 You know, in growing up in my home, 13:24 I think, I've shared this before, 13:25 but very dysfunctional home and I would not speak 13:30 of it outside of the home. 13:32 I told everyone how perfect it was. 13:34 I mean, I did this purposely was too mask 13:39 what was going on, but you actually 13:42 almost start buying into this little lie, 13:48 is a good word for it, because that's what is it. 13:51 It seems right so it's kind of like, it's perfect, 13:54 it's perfect, it's perfect, it's perfect and you never 13:56 deal with the roots of the problem. 13:58 Till one day you wake up and go, 14:01 there wasn't perfect about it. 14:03 And then suddenly God can start healing. 14:06 Absolutely. 14:08 Living a lie is destroying yourself. 14:11 There is no question about it. 14:14 Okay, if apathy is on the emotional tone of scale, 14:20 if apathy is just one step before emotional death. 14:26 If you look at the opposite end of the scale, 14:28 what is the step before emotional healing? 14:32 Anger. 14:33 Anger. 14:35 Because anger at least says, something is wrong 14:40 and I have a reason there is a cause, for me to be angry. 14:46 It's close to the top. Okay. 14:48 And as I finally tell myself the truth 14:52 and look at the reason for my anger. 14:56 Now I can move forward. 14:58 I can deal with that reason. 15:02 You know, there's some little Christian girl 15:04 out there like me that's saying, "Ooh, wait. 15:07 We're taught we are not supposed to be angry." 15:09 But there is such a thing as appropriate anger 15:12 because Jesus expressed appropriate anger. 15:16 The Bible says-- it doesn't say, "Don't be angry." 15:19 It says, "In your anger do not sin." 15:21 Correct. 15:22 So you're talking about the kind of anger 15:26 you had was not a healthy anger. 15:29 No, it was self justification anger. 15:31 That's where the key is at. 15:32 Okay. Yours was the self justification anger. 15:33 Absolutely. 15:35 The anger we're talking about right now is in stepping back 15:38 and once you recognize and saying, "Man, this was 15:41 messed up and it shouldn't have happened this way. 15:46 And I've got to..." I can do something about it. 15:50 You see, because God tells me that forgiveness is necessary. 15:55 But the angry person says, "I don't want to forgive. 16:02 I'm still seething about what was done." 16:06 Okay. 16:07 And so we tell people to do what David did in the Bible. 16:12 What did David do? 16:13 He wrote. 16:15 And he wrote many Psalms. 16:17 Even being angry at God h rather wrote it down. 16:20 Why are you not defending me? 16:22 Why are all my enemies? 16:24 And he's railing on. 16:26 But notice, at the end of the Psalm, 16:29 after getting rid of the anger. 16:33 Confession. 16:34 He comes to...I really know you've been there all along, 16:37 God. 16:39 You are my rock and my fortress. 16:43 And when we tell individuals, "Okay, so your daddy 16:47 mistreated you. 16:49 He beat you on a regular basis. 16:51 He called you terrible names. 16:54 Get out with your pen. And start a letter." 16:58 Dear Dad. 17:01 Doesn't have to be sent. 17:02 No, this is not a letter for revenge. 17:05 This is a letter to empty the junk that you've been 17:07 carrying around for years and years. 17:10 God says, give me your burden. 17:11 Why are you carrying this junk? 17:13 But my issue is not with God. 17:15 My issue is with dad. 17:19 So you write out the letter. 17:21 And then we tell, folks, take that letter 17:26 to someone you trust, a pastor, a counselor, 17:31 maybe your spouse and read out loud 17:35 what your hand has written. 17:37 Why? 17:39 It's called confession. 17:42 And that's what we need to do to empty the junk. 17:47 There's something about writing. 17:50 It's cathartic. Yeah. 17:52 The hand will write what the mouth cannot speak. 17:56 It's incredible, what you'll discover you've written. 18:00 And part of that I think is that when you sit down to write 18:04 you have to put some thought into it 18:06 'cause we all pretty good at denying what we're feeling. 18:10 So basically that's a technique that you use. 18:13 You know, I always use David's example of-- 18:17 I call it his prayer journal, Psalms or his prayer journal. 18:21 And I do journal my prayers and I teach that even. 18:24 Not for everybody. 18:26 If my husband J.D. thought he had to journal his prayers, 18:28 he'd probably never pray again, 18:30 but it doesn't work for everybody. 18:32 But it really works well for me 18:33 because you know I used to think how can I pray an hour 18:38 when the Lord asked me to pray, an hour? 18:41 And I thought, how? 18:42 And I started drilling my prayers 18:44 and I found I could pray two or three hours 18:45 because you don't know what's in you, 18:47 but your mind really does kick up a level 18:50 and these things come 18:53 and He brings to your remembrance 18:55 all these various things. 18:56 So this is something that's one way 19:02 that you teach that people identify their anger. 19:07 They get it out here. 19:09 They let their mouth speak it in front of someone. 19:11 Their eyes see it, their ears hear it, 19:13 their mouth speak the words. 19:15 Through all their senses, 19:16 they are giving back to their mind 19:19 I've taken care of this. 19:23 This is really fascinating. What-- 19:24 Does that mean it goes away after that? 19:27 No, but you know you've taken care of it. 19:29 Your mind knows you've taken care of it. 19:31 And then when it comes back again, 19:33 so you know Lord, thank You for letting that all go away. 19:37 Okay, so basically it's not just writing out the wrongs. 19:41 It's writing out these feelings that are in you 19:44 and getting to that place that you are ready for forgive. 19:48 And that's what happens you see in the recovery process 19:51 that Ron and I've created called the journey. 19:55 It is a process of writing out our pain, 20:00 but first getting knowledge and understanding. 20:04 Writing out our pain, confessing it in a small group 20:09 that has become supportive and safe. 20:13 That counsel of many that God says, "There is wisdom at." 20:18 What about is it Isaiah 48:17? I'd have to look that up. 20:22 Where the Lord says, "Do not dwell on the past" 20:27 because He says, "I am doing a new thing in you." 20:31 And do you not perceive it, 20:33 suddenly it will spring forward-- 20:34 The key there is dwelling. Okay. So-- 20:36 We don't sit in it. All right. 20:38 That's where I am trying to get to. 20:39 Acquire the knowledge, 20:41 deal with it, and go on with your life. 20:42 All right because you don't want somebody 20:44 wallowing around in this. 20:46 This isn't an exercise that they are going to spend 20:48 weeks and months writing out stuff. 20:50 No, it is not-- and letting it-- 20:51 This is something that they sit down, they deal with it. 20:53 Taking personal responsibility and go on with your life. 20:56 And then you know, we tell, folks, 20:58 some people burn what they've written. 21:02 Some people tear it up into tiny shreds 21:05 and stuff it in a balloon and let it go. 21:07 It's just a matter of saying, 21:09 "Okay, I am letting this go, God." 21:12 I am doing what you've said, get rid of bitterness, 21:17 anger, malice, resentment, 21:20 all of those things in Ephesians 4:30. 21:23 Get rid of it. 21:26 And, you know, I have to tell you this little story. 21:30 I had many concerns and issues with my father. 21:34 He said many things that were extremely hurtful to me. 21:37 Again, that's not that he was evil or bad. 21:40 He just didn't know how to say the right thing. 21:42 It was the result of his wounds. And I know that. 21:46 And, you know, I can take that back 21:47 four generations in my family 21:50 and see how the sins of the fathers. 21:51 We become what we behold. 21:53 And, oh, sometime went by and I noticed my relationship 21:58 with Ron was improving quite a bit 22:02 because I was no longer assigning to my husband 22:06 the resentment I had to my father, 22:09 which by the way is a normal this for us to do. 22:14 Wow. Sad but true. 22:16 So one day we were sitting down watching a Gaither video 22:20 and there is a pianist that is now deceased unfortunately, 22:24 but used to play for Gaither. 22:25 His name was Anthony Burger. 22:27 And Anthony told a little story 22:30 and then a song began to play by the orchestra 22:35 and it was a song I loved and used to sing, 22:39 "We shall behold Him." 22:41 And Anthony went to the piano and he sat down at the piano 22:46 when the camera came around behind him. 22:49 And it shown down on his figures 22:52 and I'll tell you I had to do a double take 22:56 because those were not Anthony's hands, 22:58 they were my father's. 23:00 My father played just like Anthony Burger. 23:04 And I knew they were my dad's hands 23:06 because you see he'd cut off this finger here 23:09 and this finger and this finger in a circular saw, 23:13 but my father never missed a beat on the piano. 23:16 I saw my father's hand and the tears poured 23:21 and my thought was "Yes, daddy, I will behold you. 23:27 And I will run to you." 23:30 Because I know know you rejected me, 23:36 but I also rejected you, 23:40 because of your rejection of me. 23:45 So now when I speak of my father 23:47 it's with great love and admiration 23:50 recognizing he did the best he could with what he had. 23:53 That's healing. That's recovery. 23:56 And that's what God wants for every one of us. 23:58 We need to remember where our parents, 24:00 our great grandparents, 24:02 and our great, great grandparents came from. 24:04 A hundred years ago was the primary 24:07 the father and mother survival. 24:10 Sixty years ago, World War II was the primary thought 24:13 of a mother and father, survival. 24:16 And then the 50's hit 24:17 and we go into connecting and bonding. 24:20 And all these issues and none of us know anything about-- 24:23 Don't know how to do it. 24:25 So we've gone out from a survival age to relational age 24:27 and nobody has taught us how to do it. 24:29 Nobody's taught our parents, our grandparent 24:31 nor did they teach us. 24:33 It's about time we learn. 24:34 God has got a way out of this. Amen. 24:37 All along He's saying, "I love you, I accept you." 24:40 But our wounds prevent us from hearing it 24:44 and feeling it with our hearts. 24:46 And till we let go, it's hard to receive from God 24:50 when we are filled with junk. 24:52 Tell about your elbow macaroni, we just have a minute. 24:55 Ron dreamt this up one day and he said in a seminar, 24:59 we ought to be like a piece of elbow macaroni. 25:02 Wow, did I do a double take? What in a world is he saying? 25:06 He said, "You know, the Holy Spirit 25:07 is being poured on us at all times, 25:10 but we are like macaroni 25:11 that sits in macaroni and cheese. 25:14 Cheese is clogging up that passage way 25:17 through the elbow macaroni 25:18 and the cheese is our wounds 25:20 and we hold on to them for dear life, 25:23 so the Holy Spirit doesn't flow through us 25:26 and out, to benefit others. 25:29 And when wounds come to us they get stuck in our cheese 25:32 and we say, we have a right to be angry, 25:35 we have a right to resent." 25:37 So it does a wound screaming. Yeah. 25:41 He says give me your burdens. 25:42 Let me take them. Let me carry them for you. 25:44 Amen. But we don't. 25:47 Got to hold on, got to hold on, and got to hold on. 25:50 I have got to be right. 25:51 I want to get even with them people. 25:54 So basically, I mean, our time again is just rushing away, 25:59 but what we were saying here is that 26:02 if you are on the road to self defeat. 26:04 You've got to-- see if I am giving this the right wrap here, 26:09 what you've got to do is recognize 26:12 you are on the wrong road. 26:14 And that's what you are doing when you sit down and say, 26:16 "Okay, I am writing all of this stuff out 26:19 and saying, you know, 26:21 now I am going to confess this, I need to forgive somebody, 26:23 I recognize my own wounds." 26:25 And then that's when you have that forgiveness 26:30 that's going on that you can turn around 26:33 and get on the right path and begin the renewal process. 26:36 That's just the beginning. That's right. 26:38 But that's what it's all about. 26:40 In fact, they can go to our website 26:41 and find the 3ABN little tag up there 26:44 and they can download several pages of this concept. 26:49 Do this real quickly because we're running out of time. 26:51 www.yourlri.com, www.yourlri.com. 27:02 Thank you so much, Nancy and Ron. 27:05 We just really appreciate you coming 27:07 and sharing your life's experience 27:10 and by education and by personal experience. 27:14 I hope for those of you at home 27:16 that if you are on a path that seems right to you 27:19 and others are saying, "Hey, wait a minute. 27:21 This isn't the way it should be." 27:23 That you'll wake up and realize 27:25 that you don't have to keep going down 27:28 that self defeating path. 27:30 There is a way out. 27:32 God tells you that He's got a plan for your life. 27:35 It's better than the one that you're living 27:37 and it's a plan to prosper you 27:39 and to give you some good things and abundant life. 27:43 So we encourage you to look to Him for some answers. 27:47 Now may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, 27:49 the love of the Father 27:51 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit 27:52 be with you today and for the rest of your life. 27:55 Thank you. |
Revised 2014-12-17