Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Ron and Nancy Rockey
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000317
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome again to
00:33 Issues and Answers. You know, each time that we 00:36 begin I like to start with a scripture and share a thought 00:41 with you that will go along with the program. Today we're going 00:44 to be talking about how the wounds of our past actually help 00:48 shape us and move us in a certain direction and how 00:51 there's an answer to self- destructive behavior. But let me 00:55 read what I think is the answer. It comes from Romans 12 and 00:58 verse 2. Paul writes to the Romans, he says: Be not 01:02 conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of 01:06 your mind that you may prove what is the good, acceptable 01:12 and perfect will of God. Today we're going to talk about 01:17 how those issues from the past, from the early past, can shape 01:21 our lived, but how God can help turn that around. I'm very happy 01:26 to welcome back to the program Drs. Ron and Nancy Rockey. 01:31 So good to have you back again. 01:33 Thank you. And you all are family life and 01:37 now I'm not going to say that right, Family Life and Renewal 01:41 Yes. Okay, Family Life and Renewal educators. 01:44 See we took your Bible text and put it in our title. 01:47 You did didn't you. Tell us a little bit about what you do. 01:53 You both have your PhDs in psychology and counseling. 01:57 You also have a master's degree in family therapy both of you. 02:03 You know what, they have a master's degree from a 02:07 university but they've also got THE Master's degree because 02:11 they went through so many negative life experiences and 02:15 God helped turn that all around and that's where the real 02:19 education came isn't it? 02:21 Yes, absolutely and that text you read there renewing of the 02:25 mind, that's the philosophy, that's the core issue of Life 02:30 Renewal Institute. It's not renewing behaviors. It's about 02:34 renewing the mind; having a new mind and a new spirit. 02:40 We have discussed before how even in the womb there are 02:46 things that affect our thought processes and brain mapping in 02:49 the womb and in early childhood. But what we're going to be 02:54 talking about today is how those wounds determine the direction 02:59 that we go. Now talk about the Y factor for just a moment. 03:04 Well the Y factor is simply a graphic that has key words on it 03:13 The graphic is shaped like a capital letter Y. 03:17 That's why we call it the Y factor. 03:21 And that by the way is available to 3ABN viewers. They can 03:25 download both the graphic and the writing that explains the 03:29 whole thing off of our web site. 03:32 And what is your website? 03:33 www. yourlri. com Lri stands for Life Renewal 03:46 Institute www.yourlri.com 03:53 And they can download this. Now what you're saying then is the 03:59 wounds of the past help shape our, do we want to use the word, 04:04 esteem, self-esteem. Some people get so touchy about this and we 04:09 believe it should be Christ esteem. But there is such a 04:13 thing as self-esteem. Well it's self-worth. 04:16 Self-worth. Our self-worth whether it be 04:20 good or not feeling so good. Nancy, well both of us, had 04:24 issues with self-worth. We did. And you know what? 04:27 Our issues, yours and mine, began in the garden of Eden with 04:32 Adam and Eve when they were wounded. How were they wounded? 04:37 Because God's enemy lied to them. 04:41 So you're saying that sin always wounds us. 04:44 Absolutely. That's right. 04:46 Right after they got kicked out of the garden of Eden it says in 04:52 the Bible that Adam lays with his wife and she conceived with 04:59 Cain and she says, And the Lord has given me... 05:01 With the help of the Lord I have me. What's that about? Me. 05:10 Self has already kicked in. 05:12 Not Adam and I have conceived a child. 05:15 But the Lord has given me. I have. 05:17 I see your point. So right away she became self 05:21 centered. But what happened in the garden originally when Eve 05:26 took of the fruit that Satan lied to her about and she ate, 05:31 then she gave to her husband Adam and he ate, and then when 05:37 Adam ate the eyes of them both were opened and they saw that 05:41 they were naked meaning they saw they were guilty. They had done 05:46 a wrong thing. And we know, science tells us, that 05:51 unconfessed guilt turns to shame Guilt says I did a wrong thing. 05:58 Shame says I am wrong. There's something innately wrong about 06:03 me. And we know this happened to Adam and Eve because first 06:08 they covered themselves with fig leaves and then they went hiding 06:13 in the shrubbery. And God had to come looking for them. What is 06:17 this thing you have done? What is he looking for? 06:20 He already knew. And why does he ask us to confess. He already 06:24 knows. Because he knows how good it is 06:26 for us to confess. That's exactly correct. 06:29 I always like to add when you said that the devil to them, 06:34 first he did something that's even more devious in my mind. 06:39 That is he first gets them to doubt God's word. He always 06:44 wants to plant that seed of doubt and try to interrupt our 06:48 relationship with the Lord or keep us from coming close to the 06:52 Lord. Then we buy into the lie. 06:53 Our doubt creates access for Satan's agenda for our minds. 06:59 So that's a beautiful thought the way you said that. I like 07:03 the way you put that. When we've got in our lives, and both of 07:08 you had in your life as did I, people who are supposed to 07:13 protect us, people who are... Nancy you were sexually abused. 07:19 You were in a very dysfunctional family. What does that do to a 07:24 child when the one who stands in the place of the Protector, 07:30 the one who doesn't protect not only doesn't protect but 07:35 is inflicting? First of all before you say that 07:37 she's come from a dysfunctional family, but to everybody on the 07:41 outside it was a perfect family. Totally perfect. Exactly. 07:45 And many dysfunctional families that's the way it is. You know 07:50 you heard that old saying about maybe you live with an alcoholic 07:55 parent and it's the white elephant in the living room 07:58 because the children are taught to keep that all very secret in 08:01 and the family keeps it all secret and then they go and then 08:05 they sit on the front row at church and everyone thinks that 08:08 they're oh so lovely but they just don't know what dysfunction 08:11 is going on in the home. 08:13 Well the sad part in my beginnings is that my father was 08:18 a lay leader of the church, an astute biblical scholar and 08:24 everyone who knew him loved him very much. My mother was warm, 08:30 loving, affectionate, snuggly kind of a woman. But when my dad 08:36 came home from World War II I was four, so for those first 08:40 four years I had no father. Those were character forming 08:45 years when I needed the provider the protector, the priest, the 08:50 father and I didn't have him. When he came home he came home 08:55 as a master sergeant that he was in the army and he brought all 08:59 of his tactics with him so he was an absolute controller and 09:04 because he had been wounded as a child and never really accepted 09:10 by his mother even till the day she died there was no acceptance 09:16 for my father. Because of that the only thing he knew to do was 09:22 to reject me the way he had been rejected. So here I am his only 09:27 child, expected to perform perfectly and be an example for 09:33 everyone else in the church yet out of his mouth came despicable 09:40 things about me and to me. 09:42 Does that make him bad or evil? No. Makes him hurting. 09:46 And the sad part is I now know my father loved me the best way 09:51 he could. That's what I always say about 09:53 my mother, yeah. But the best way wasn't good 09:56 enough. It wasn't what I needed to become a whole and healthy 10:02 adult. Let me ask you, because when 10:05 you're wounded as a child like that and your self-worth is very 10:09 low, then this sets you up for failure. I mean, were you a 10:14 perfectionist because I was? I still fight that. 10:17 Oh honey, Ron laughingly tells people I ironed the sheets, I 10:22 ironed the towels, I ironed his underwear, I ironed his socks, 10:27 Everything had to be perfect. That all takes time and she 10:32 would cook a meal and she would have a presentation. Everything 10:35 was color coordinated and the whole ball of wax. So now listen 10:39 with my extreme background being rejected big time in childhood, 10:43 she's spending all that time away from me to make herself 10:52 look good. So she wasn't impressing me at all. 10:58 And was that my point? No. I was so desperate for male 11:03 acceptance because I didn't ever get it that I was trying to 11:08 perform for that acceptance, believe it or not, the way I 11:14 felt God expected me to perform so he would accept me and 11:19 human beings are a success or a failure based on the view they 11:23 have of their worth and their value. 11:26 But now how does that set you up? I don't want to spend the 11:30 whole time talking with Nancy. I also want to include you so jump 11:32 in. But particularly because we have some common things in 11:37 background. How did that set you up as far as your relationship 11:41 with the Lord? It was a performance. I was a 11:47 goody two shoes little Christian girl. I never... 11:50 Boy do we have a lot in common. 11:52 I never stepped out of line, girl, I never ever. I went to 11:58 public school from kindergarten through 12th grade and never 12:03 stepped out of line. Oh mercy. I know I wouldn't 12:06 let a boy even French kiss me because I was told not to so I 12:09 never... I didn't do anything wrong. 12:11 I know. I couldn't even date. I couldn't enjoy any of the 12:14 activities because they were all on the wrong day of the week or 12:17 they were too worldly. So believe it or not, I felt like I 12:23 was a weirdo and didn't know well how to relate to my own 12:29 peers because I had four adults in my home. The only ones I 12:35 learned to relate to were adults. 12:38 This is a very intimate question but was the sexual abuse that 12:41 happened in your life, did it go on in your home or outside the 12:45 of the home? No it was outside of the home 12:47 across the street, two old men. But you know, a child who has a 12:54 safe environment at home would race home to report what was 12:59 going on across the street. And it happened for five years 13:04 and I never told the truth. My mother never knew until I was 13:09 50 years of age that I had been abused. 13:17 Oh mercy. That's so painful. 13:19 And she asked me, why didn't you say. And I said, well mom 13:24 you know at home... and she interrupted me. She said you 13:31 know what, I thought until you just told me about your abuse 13:36 that I had never been abused. But you know, when I was 11... 13:41 My truth set me mother free. 13:47 Wow! So she had totally forgotten, or blocked out, not 13:52 really forgotten, but blocked out the thought about her own 13:55 sexual abuse. Correct. 13:57 Now hold that thought for just a second. I'm going to go to you 14:00 because you also came from a very destructive or 14:06 dysfunctional background. And destructive. 14:08 And you then became what you beheld. You became very 14:13 controlling and if anyone hasn't heard your story, my favorite 14:18 part of your story is the pay phone in the parsonage, how you 14:22 were trying to control your own wife's outgoing calls. But now 14:27 all of these wounds that you had and you were living out in self 14:31 destructive behavior because you had no self-worth, how did you 14:36 look at God? You're a pastor at this point. 14:41 Well it's interesting that when I was 16 years old that my dad 14:49 died. The week before he died he and I got close, and how we 14:55 got close is he let me drive the car home one day. That was 15:00 getting close. Nancy used to laugh at that. I said, well we 15:03 were sitting 2-1/2 feet from each other. That's close isn't 15:07 it? That's the closest I ever got to my dad. Then he died on 15:11 me. Look at the terminology. I came out of the movie theater 15:15 the day after he died and looked in the newspaper and it says 15:20 Stanley C. Rockey died of a heart attack. I said, if there 15:25 is a God listen to me once. I want you to take my dad to 15:30 heaven and I'll make sure I take his place in hell. At 16 I came 15:35 out from that place to make sure I go straight to hell. I wound 15:40 up going to prison. He did go to hell. Tennessee 15:44 State Penitentiary, Hell! You became a pastor after this? 15:47 After that. Now you ask me how does that relate in the 15:51 pastorate work? I would pray for you, I would pray for my wife, 15:56 I would pray for everybody else to ask God for things for them 16:00 not for myself. Because your image of a father.. 16:07 I never got anything from my father. He always took from me. 16:12 And he took that father from me so why ask him for anything? 16:17 Isn't it amazing. I'm just sitting here thinking how many 16:22 people's lives with God, their relationship with God, has been 16:29 shaped by an earthly parent. God says, I thought you would call 16:36 me father and not turn away from following me and he's 16:40 talking on a very personal intimate level and what we have 16:44 a tendency to do is to project. My own father was killed when I 16:50 was six. My stepfather was an abusive alcoholic and we have 16:54 this tendency that our earthly parents, whatever they're 16:58 demanding of us or whatever they inflict upon us we kind of 17:02 associate that with our relationship with the Lord. 17:05 One day, I don't remember when it was, but remember again I was 17:11 raised in the movies and when I was pastor, about 30 years ago 17:17 now I was at my end. My whole pastorate was going down the 17:22 toilet and it was going bad. There was a mess in the church 17:26 and I couldn't understand it. No matter what I did my prayers 17:30 didn't work for the people. I found myself going to a movie 17:34 and came out of there... That was his escape. He learned 17:38 it early on. At age four they would give him a quarter and 17:41 send him to the movies. And he would get there by himself, get 17:45 home by himself and 25 cents bought him two full features 17:49 and all the cartoons and the news reels that came in between 17:53 and a bag of popcorn. That's a good four or five hours 17:55 I was gone. And I found myself saying to myself one day, I read 18:03 the Bible and it said, YOU ARE MINE. It clicked and he picked 18:08 me up, that's how I felt, he literally picked me up and put 18:14 me on his lap and that's where I find myself today. 18:17 Sitting on his lap and from that day on as I was in the pastoral 18:22 work I felt him along side of me every time. 18:26 Is that Isaiah 43 that you're referring to? Yes. Isaiah 43 18:29 verse 1. And that's where my worth comes 18:32 now. My worth comes, your dad might not have understood you, 18:36 your mother might not have understood you, nobody 18:40 may have understood you growing up but your mine. 18:43 I have called you by your name he says. 18:45 By the way that word there, name, means pet name. He's got 18:50 a pet name for us. It would be interesting to find 18:53 out what that is. I was so dysfunctional though 18:56 and so controlling that even when I was in prison the 18:59 brutality was off the charts in Tennessee State Penitentiary 19:02 back in those days. That was 40 some years ago. 19:06 What did you do? Ohhh. You name it. I was in 19:10 prison there. What he did not do is bodily 19:14 harm to anybody else. It was all petty thievery. This is what 19:19 rejected children do by the way. Rejected children notoriously 19:24 become criminals, however, the majority of them steal things 19:29 to try to fill the giant hole in their heart where the 19:32 relationship with a parent should be. They fill it with 19:35 things instead of relationship. 19:37 And I filled it with things as well but I filled it more with 19:41 controlling other people. 19:43 Well for me I can remember I didn't feel like there was 19:48 anyone there that I could run to. Especially I can remember 19:52 thinking oh I wish my father were alive, I wish my father 19:56 were alive and there'd be somebody that I could go to 20:00 well I was only six when he died so I don't really know that much 20:03 about my own father. But it was like, oh, if there just could be 20:07 somebody that I could go to, someone whose lap that I could 20:10 crawl up in and they'd say, oh I'll make it okay. But because 20:13 there was no one like that around I became fiercely 20:17 independent. It was like, I'm going to have to take care of 20:21 myself. I have a tendency to be a caretaker for everyone. 20:25 But that was my biggest problem coming to the Lord was that I 20:29 grew up having to be so fiercely independent, that self-survival 20:34 I guess you could call it. 20:35 Well you know what, that is a gift of the human brain, did you 20:40 know that. The brain is designed to see to it that the body, 20:45 physical body and the mind will survive at all costs. And here 20:50 we are now at that Y factor we were talking about earlier. 20:56 So the reason that we get on the wrong road is that we start 21:01 developing techniques designed to see to it that we will 21:06 survive. It's about control. I'm out of 21:08 control in childhood, later on I take control to survive. 21:11 So that's one of the techniques. I will control. 21:14 You probably never drank in your life because you're like me. 21:16 I wouldn't want to drink because I didn't want to lose 21:18 control. Well I had control in the 21:21 drinking. I was drinking pure grain alcohol before I quite 21:27 drinking and I never lost control. 21:29 Is that true? I don't know. I met him in the 21:34 courtroom the day he was released after 4-1/2 years in 21:38 prison. That's how you all met? 21:39 Yeah. That's another story. 21:42 So let's talk about this self survival type instinct. 21:46 So we develop techniques to see that we survive and 21:50 usually those techniques are not helpful to us. They are self 21:56 defeating techniques. Addictions of all kinds, drugs, and alcohol 22:03 and tobacco and overeating and religion and sex and on and on 22:09 it goes, all in an attempt to fill the emptiness that we feel. 22:15 That's what addictions are about I must survive. My mother and 22:19 father or my primary care givers who should have protected me and 22:24 cared for me did not. So if I'm going to live I have to take 22:29 care of me. And sometimes the pain is so 22:32 great that I used these substances to be able to numb 22:35 the pain. You see I never used any 22:37 substance. My sister did and God delivered her overnight. 22:41 But I want to bring this around because we're talking about this 22:46 issue and we only have a few minutes left and I don't want to 22:52 leave you hanging. We want to give you the hope that God has. 22:57 When we have these wounds that develop self-destructive 23:03 behaviors, these wounds that we have these survival, I'm going 23:10 to survive. Those thoughts themselves can keep us from 23:15 God because I know the secret. I didn't want religion. Religion 23:20 didn't ever do me any good. I mean I was a very religious 23:23 person but it was the relationship with God that 23:27 finally... and it was that thought, that fear, of having to 23:32 surrender control to someone else was just like ah ha ah ha. 23:38 But when you learn to trust and release the control of your life 23:43 to him he does have a plan for your life. How does someone get 23:47 who's... we're talking out here and have just a few minutes... 23:52 someone who says this is me. What you're talking about is me. 23:57 I'm in that self-survival mode. I'm in this control freak mode. 24:02 How do we get out of that mode to God? 24:06 They've already taken the first step. Because the first step is 24:12 telling yourself the truth. I am a sinner. AA says, the first 24:17 step is tell yourself I am an alcoholic. Telling yourself the 24:22 truth for the first time. 24:23 You asked me earlier if you were so controlling and off the chart 24:28 in the area of control, what made the difference? Just being 24:33 able to recognize all of a sudden with right knowledge, 24:36 wait a minute, maybe I do control Nancy. The pay phone in 24:40 the parsonage really wasn't for economic reasons. 24:45 I think that's so funny. I asked him, I said, you were a control 24:51 freak. He said, Yeah and I didn't even know it. And I said 24:54 you had a pay phone in the parsonage. 24:57 I had an excuse for everything. 25:01 So recognizing. Then how do you get... 25:04 Okay the next step - renewal. What does the word renew mean? 25:09 It means to make new again, be transformed. How can I be 25:15 made new again when in my history, in my past is all the 25:22 old junk. And the good book makes it very clear. Nehemiah 25:26 the ninth chapter the first verse. The children of Israel, 25:31 it's the day of atonement, what are they doing? They're standing 25:34 in the temple on the day of atonement and they are 25:38 confessing their sins and the sins of their fathers. Why? 25:45 So they won't replicate what their fathers did that caused 25:52 them to sin. So we tell people you know sure it's going to be 25:58 painful but you go back to your beginning. I have to go back and 26:03 look at what created me to get on the wrong road and my 26:09 foundational experiences created me to get on the wrong road; the 26:15 wounds I received, the abuses, the lack of caring. 26:21 And what you're looking at is not your behaviors but your 26:23 thinking patterns because of this. 26:25 And when you look at the beginnings, then you start 26:30 exchanging hope and love for fear. 26:34 And here we are. Already we're out of time. Thank you so much 26:39 for coming. You will come back? We're not going to leave our 26:43 audiences hanging. Here's the bottom line. The Bible tells us 26:48 in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that you are a new creation in Christ 26:52 Jesus. The old is gone and the new is come. So what Nancy and 26:56 Ron are telling us is that when we recognize our own sin and 27:00 look back and see what caused these behaviors. God says don't 27:04 dwell on the past. You're not supposed to go back there and 27:08 live it but you've got to recognize where the root is and 27:11 then you can take it to the Lord and you can go through this 27:15 process of healing and renewing your thoughts by letting his 27:20 word wash over you and transform your thoughts, replacing your 27:24 thoughts taking them captive and making them obedient to the 27:28 will of God as you just actually transplant his thoughts 27:32 in and uproot your own negative behavioral thoughts. You know, 27:36 I'm so glad that you joined us today. I feel like we've just 27:40 opened this and touched on the surface. But the Rockeys are 27:43 going to come back and join us again so we hope that you will 27:46 tune in next time. Till then may the grace of our Lord Jesus 27:50 Christ, the love of the Father, and the fellowship of the 27:53 Holy Spirit be with you all. |
Revised 2014-12-17