Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jennifer Jill Schwirzer
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000312
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:31 And welcome again to "Issues and Answers." 00:33 Before we kick into our topic today, 00:36 I want to share a Bible scripture with you 00:38 that is applicable, 00:40 but it's also one of my favorites 00:41 in the entire Bible. 00:43 It's 1 Thessalonians 5:23, and here's what Paul wrote 00:49 to the church at Thessalonica. 00:51 He said, "May the God of peace himself sanctify you 00:56 through and through." 00:58 Who's gonna do the sanctification work in us? 01:00 It's God's job. 01:02 "And make your spirit, soul and body 01:05 be preserved sound and found blameless 01:09 at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 01:12 You know the Bible tells us in Genesis 2:7 01:15 that God breathe His Spirit into us. 01:19 His numa is what it calls it in the Greek 01:22 and that man became a living soul or a psuche. 01:26 And today we're gonna be talking to someone 01:28 who actually is an expert in this area 01:33 or one of many experts in this area. 01:35 And we're gonna be talking about 01:37 how does a Christian approach psychology today. 01:42 And it's my great pleasure 01:44 to introduce to you Jennifer Jill Schwirzer. 01:48 And Jennifer is the Director of Michael Ministries. 01:51 That's right. 01:52 And you're also a psychotherapist 01:55 and Christian counselor. 01:56 That's right. 01:57 We are so glad that you can make it back. 01:59 Now this is not your first time on 3ABN? 02:00 No. No. 02:02 You've done some--we've worked with Don Mackintosh-- 02:04 Don Mackintosh on "Health for a Lifetime." 02:07 That's right. 02:08 We've done some music and some other things in the years past. 02:11 You know, actually I was quite surprised to find out. 02:14 I knew you were an author. 02:15 You've written six books? 02:17 Several books, yeah. I've lost count. 02:19 And but I was quite surprised to learn 02:22 that you are also a recording artist 02:24 and that you've written how many original songs? 02:27 Probably over a 150 that are recorded, 02:29 but I've written far more than that, 02:32 that are just like an archive somewhere. 02:35 And this kind of came out of the fact 02:37 that you were growing up. 02:39 In your youth you were into the new age philosophy. 02:43 How did God get your attention, Jennifer? 02:45 Oh, well, that's a whole story in and of itself. 02:47 But, He just started to just put needs in my-- 02:54 I started to notice needs inside of me 02:56 that weren't been fulfilled in the life that I had. 02:59 And He worked through some Christians, 03:01 witnessing to me and sort of kindled the fire 03:05 and then I ended up-- 03:06 I ended up really trying Christianity as an option. 03:09 I wasn't sure it was the truth, but I tried it or taste and see 03:13 that the Lord is good. Amen. 03:14 And I tasted and I found that it was the truth, 03:17 so that's the natural version. Okay. 03:20 And then you came-- once you became a Christian, 03:22 how did you become an Adventist? 03:25 Oh, it was studying the Bible, 03:27 because I found that the Adventist message 03:29 was based on scripture 03:31 and that it answered the big questions 03:34 that I'd always had even before I was a Christian. 03:36 Were do we go when we die? What is our purpose in life? 03:39 Things like that were answered from the Bible 03:43 and the Adventist message 03:44 did a really good job of organizing that information. 03:47 I just found that it had the best system of biblical theology 03:51 anywhere that I could find. 03:53 So I embraced it. The Lord led me to it. 03:56 And I knew it was truth, because I wanted the truth 03:58 and He brought it to me. Amen. 04:01 Now you have a master's degree in psychotherapy. 04:05 Right. You're a Christian counselor. 04:07 So tell us--you know we started today I mentioned Genesis 2:7. 04:11 How God breathe the spirit into man, 04:14 His spirit and man became a living soul. 04:17 I know that the word soul in the Greek is psuche. 04:20 Define for us the word psychology? 04:23 Well, I'm not afraid of the word psychology. 04:25 We're gonna be grappling during this show 04:29 with how a Christian should approach psychology. 04:32 And I just want to say straight out 04:33 that I'm not afraid of the word psychology 04:35 because I believe there's a biblical psychology. 04:39 The word "psych" or that you know, 04:41 we get psychology from psych is from the Greek psuche. 04:45 And psuche simply means the immaterial part of man. 04:49 And psuche is the only word that is translated 04:52 into soul in the New Testament. 04:54 So when we see the word soul, 04:56 we know that it's talking about the psuche 04:58 or the immaterial part of man. 04:59 So psychology is simply the study of the soul really. 05:04 That part of us that is 05:06 not really something we can see concretely 05:09 or perceived through our senses, but is nonetheless very real. 05:12 So like our thoughts what makes us up 05:16 or what makes our character. 05:19 The components that you can't say, okay, 05:22 this is like this piece of paper that you can cut it 05:25 and see it and manipulate it, 05:27 but it's something that is invisible, 05:30 but it's very much a part of us. 05:31 But it's still very real. 05:32 And like the scripture that you've read indicates 05:36 the various dimensions of human nature are interconnected. 05:40 Man is holistic by the Biblical definition of man. 05:44 So we have spirit, soul and body. 05:47 So the soul lives in the context of the body. 05:50 There is no evidence in scripture 05:52 that the soul lives outside of the context of the body. 05:55 But the way I kind of see it is that 05:58 we have the spiritual experience when we come to Jesus-- 06:02 you know had a body all along, 06:04 but the work of character development 06:07 is really kind of soul development. 06:09 So I've come to conceptualize the soul as the character 06:13 and that's the part of us that needs development 06:15 and psychology are purports to have a theory and a method 06:21 of developing the soul really is what it is. 06:24 So without the breath of life-- 06:27 if you remove the breathe of life from man, 06:29 he can't have body and soul-- 06:31 I mean there is no body and soul. 06:33 Without the breathe of life he's just the body 06:36 because the breathe of life and the body, 06:38 God developed the soul. That's right. 06:40 We became a living being, a soul. 06:42 That's right. Okay. 06:43 I want to make sure we stayed on track here. 06:45 Now there is--I know that my husband like you 06:49 he has master's degree in psychology. 06:51 He was studying for his doctoral degree. 06:54 When I first met him 06:57 I found that his thinking was a little skewed. 07:02 He had been a nominal Christian when he was studying psychology 07:05 and he got really skewed toward 07:08 what I think of as a flawed system in psychology 07:11 and let's talk about that for a moment. 07:13 What do you think of as of the current practice of psychology 07:17 if you were to take the element 07:19 of being a Christian out of there? 07:21 What's the flaw within that system? 07:24 Well, the basic premise of the whole profession of psychology 07:28 is that man can solve his own problems. 07:31 And the Bible-- so I don't need to, you know, 07:32 really like go after the different theorists 07:35 and point out what's wrong in detail 07:37 because that's a flawed premise. 07:38 So when you start with a flawed premise, 07:40 you come to a flawed conclusion. 07:43 The Bible teaches that when man sinned, 07:45 he created a god size problem 07:48 that man cannot solve his own problems 07:50 that only God can solve the problems of man. 07:53 So because, you know, secular psychology 07:56 begins with that premise, 07:57 we can't possibly come to a correct conclusion. 08:00 But that doesn't mean that some of the theorists 08:03 and that have been the great masters 08:05 of the field of psychology having said some very insightful 08:09 and even true things. 08:10 And so I'm equally guarded against 08:13 over demonizing psychology, 08:15 because I don't want to throw the baby out 08:17 with the bathwater. 08:18 And there are some babies, 08:20 there are some nuggets of truth even in secular theories. 08:25 So you know, Jennifer, I bet you're gonna come to 08:27 or say the same thing that I've noticed. 08:30 When I look at some age type seminars that are out there 08:35 or you hear some things from psychology, 08:38 I can sit and say, 08:39 you know, that principle is directly from the Bible, 08:42 they've just twisted it a little. 08:43 Oh, that principle from the Bible. 08:45 So has that been your experience that-- 08:46 That has totally been my experience. 08:48 And let me just say this that I have pursued 08:51 this counseling thing as a later in life career. 08:54 I was always involved in music ministry 08:56 and sort of like you teaching 08:58 and preaching the word and so forth. 09:00 I got into the counseling because I really felt like 09:03 God was leading me in that direction. 09:05 And I went through a secular master's program 09:07 and I went in with the premise 09:10 that the Bible has the most accurate 09:13 and comprehensive and affective theory in method of psychology 09:17 that can be found anywhere under the sun. 09:19 And after three years of studying the theories 09:22 of you know, Freud and Adler 09:25 and Rogers and Skinner etcetera, etcetera. 09:27 There are over 300 different theorists 09:30 that have popularize their theories 09:32 and after three years of studying those things nonstop, 09:35 I still believed that the Bible contained 09:39 the most accurate, the most comprehensive 09:42 and the most effective theory in method of psychology 09:45 that can be found anywhere under the sun. 09:46 In other words I went in with that premise 09:48 and I came out with the premise. 09:50 It only really enforced for being-- 09:53 because I had such grounding in scripture when I went in, 09:56 it only reinforced for me what I already believed. 09:59 But someone going in without that foundation 10:02 could be affected and would be affected 10:04 and would begin to see things 10:06 through the lens of those theorists 10:07 and we have to remember that they are not, 10:09 you know, people that profess faith in God. 10:12 You know, there's so many these different 10:14 behavioralism and different things. 10:16 let's talk about some of those because I do know that 10:20 when I'm talking with someone the advice that I give 10:23 is if you're going to go to a counselor 10:25 and I believe in that, seek a Christian counselor. 10:29 Seek someone who has good knowledge of the Bible. 10:32 Of the word. 10:34 And of the word, so that you're not going 10:35 to be getting off as you said. 10:37 I had a friend whose daughter-in-law 10:40 had developed a drug problem. 10:43 And when she went through a number of programs 10:46 what they kept teaching her was it's all about 10:50 self, self, self and you've got to-- 10:53 Self-esteem. 10:54 Well, but it was more than self-esteem, 10:56 it was self fulfillment, it was self-- 10:58 Self-actualizing. 10:59 Self-actualizing is the word I'm looking for. 11:01 That's a part of the Varangians school of thought 11:05 and that's considered the third force in psychology. 11:08 There are four forces that have developed 11:10 since psychology began in the mid 1800s 11:13 and the third kind of phase of psychology 11:15 is humanistic psychology and Carl Rogers 11:18 was sort of the figure head of that moment. 11:20 And what they teach us that we have within us the ability to 11:24 what he calls self-actualizer or fulfill our potential. 11:27 And it's like a seed within us that just needs to be 11:30 allowed to grow and we have all the healing power 11:33 and the ability to make ourselves right 11:35 within ourselves, so that's humanism. 11:37 And all they taught in this, I mean, she came out-- 11:41 she went in other than having develop this drug problem. 11:45 She went in fairly balanced person 11:49 and she came out being one that was so focused on self 11:54 and everything she was taught, take care of yourself first, 11:57 do this first, do that first. 11:59 And she really then started getting worse and worse 12:04 and worse and-- Sometimes it can make-- 12:07 psychology can make you worse instead of better. 12:08 And it was unbelievable. 12:10 But I have to say that, you know, 12:12 if you go in as a Christian and you see a secular therapist, 12:17 they are mandated by the codes of ethics 12:19 to respect your religion 12:20 and not to try to reform your thinking. 12:23 I'm not saying that always happens 12:25 but at least the ethics code say 12:27 that they need to respect your religious beliefs. 12:30 But it's true that psychology 12:31 can sometimes do more harm than good. 12:33 And so if we have Christian belief system, 12:36 we need to put ourselves in a context 12:38 where that will be supportive. 12:39 So how would you take that 12:40 and compare it to what the Bible would say though? 12:43 Take the idea of self-actualizing. 12:46 Well, obviously the Bible teaches that man is depraved 12:50 and that we do not have the ability to save ourselves. 12:53 That there is no innate goodness within us 12:55 that just needs to be allowed to grow 12:57 and actualize that the only goodness within us 13:01 is that which is brought in from the outside 13:04 from the divine source via the Holy Spirit. 13:06 So Christ within us. 13:07 Colossians 1:27 our only hope of glory and the Holy Spirit 13:11 and the transforming power of the word is how? 13:14 But there is--when we have that God does expect us to cooperate 13:18 with Him as we surrender to Him. 13:20 There is a development process. 13:22 Character development is the call of the Christian 13:25 and you can say that, that is true psychology 13:28 is character development 13:29 as the person begins to walk with Christ, 13:31 they experience change 13:33 and the whole point of psychology, 13:35 of secular psychology 13:36 is to bring about change in people's lives. 13:38 You see a therapist so that you can undergo change. 13:41 Well, there's nothing--that, that's certainly is something 13:45 that God brings about in our lives 13:47 and so that's part of Christian psychology as well. 13:49 However Biblical psychology defines the change, 13:52 the standard, the goal toward which we strive more accurately 13:57 than secular psychology does I feel. 13:59 And there's so much disagreement within secular psychology 14:02 as to how we need to change? 14:03 So the Bible is very plain, we need to become like Jesus. 14:07 So what are some of the other forces in psychology? 14:10 And let's compare secular psychology 14:12 to what the Bible says. 14:13 One of the things that really came out from me is that 14:15 these men did have insights. 14:18 But that they gain these insights 14:20 and I even think some of them from the scriptures 14:22 because not a few of them-- 14:25 I think Roger did study to be a minister. 14:27 And I know Freud was-- he was a Jewish man. 14:30 He was well acquainted with scriptures. 14:31 So what I see is that they, 14:34 they apparently took a parts of truth 14:37 and they changed it slightly and then put their name on it. 14:40 So there is still some truth there 14:42 which is why the psychology is so powerful. 14:46 Pure lies are not powerful. 14:48 Lies mingle with truth are powerful. 14:51 So just to give a brief overview of the four forces 14:54 within psychology starting with Freud 14:57 and the whole school of psychoanalysis. 14:59 Just to give you an example of what was right about 15:02 what he said versus what was wrong about it 15:04 because you see the word affirms everything 15:06 that's right about psychology 15:08 and it corrects everything that's wrong about it 15:10 and I love that about the word. 15:11 I can go there and I can have confidence 15:13 that God will sort out the issues for me. 15:15 You know, so what was right about Freud, you know, 15:18 he brought forth the idea of the unconscious mind. 15:21 In a climate within that society 15:24 in which that was not generally acknowledged. 15:26 It was an environment of rationalism and positivism 15:29 and if you know anything about those systems of thought, 15:32 it's basically that the man is the sum total 15:34 of his rational thoughts. 15:36 There was no acknowledgement that we had unconscious motives 15:40 that drew our behaviors. 15:41 And in the midst of that environment Freud said, 15:44 there is such a thing as the unconscious. 15:45 Now that's true, isn't it? Amen. 15:47 I mean, the Bible supports the notion 15:49 that man has an unconscious. 15:51 Jeremiah said the heart is deceitful above all things 15:54 and desperately wicked. 15:55 Who can know it? 15:56 That's a rhetorical question implying 15:58 that we can't know our own hearts 15:59 apart from the aid of the Holy Spirit. 16:02 And you know the Psalm, it says, 16:04 "Search me, O God, and know my heart, 16:06 try me, and know my thoughts." 16:07 God has to do the searching in the triumph 16:09 because we don't even know ourselves. 16:11 So the idea of us having an unconscious mind 16:14 that we are basically unaware off is a biblical idea. 16:19 But Freud took it to an extent that was not biblical. 16:22 He had a whole system worked out with the id 16:25 which is sort of the animal within and the super-ego 16:28 which is kind of like the conscience but little different. 16:30 And then the ego which sort of mediates 16:32 between the id and the super-ego 16:34 and he had this whole kind of elaborate system 16:37 that was very similar to biblical teaching, 16:39 but different enough to not be biblical, 16:42 so I find that fascinating. 16:43 It is fascinating. 16:45 I think, what you said is he did take a lot of good 16:48 from the Bible, but then he twisted this-- 16:50 twisted it to his own destruction. 16:52 And then behaviouralism came along after that 16:54 and probably the most prominent behavioral theorist 16:57 would be B.F. Skinner. 16:59 And behaviouralism was right in that id, 17:02 side of the fact that human beings are very strongly 17:05 influenced by their environment. 17:07 Human beings are imitative creatures. 17:09 We see our role models and we begin to imitate 17:12 that behavior and you can really see that among young people. 17:14 And when they, you know, when they role model after 17:16 certain athletes or rock stars, how it impacts their behavior. 17:20 So there was a lot that was true about behaviouralism. 17:24 Again that's a scriptural principle of 2 Corinthians 3:18 17:27 says, you know, "We become who we behold." 17:30 That's right. That's right. 17:31 But they took us so far as to say 17:33 that man did not have a freewill. 17:35 We are merely organisms that respond to our environment 17:38 and that goes beyond what the Bible teaches 17:40 because the Bible says that we have a choice, 17:43 "Choose ye this day whom you will serve." 17:45 God wouldn't tell us to choose if He didn't give us the choice. 17:48 So they took it too far. 17:50 And really another thing that I see, Shelley, 17:51 is that these theorists would bounce against each other, 17:54 they would pendulum swing. 17:56 One of them would say this 17:57 and then the other would come along and say, 17:59 no this and they continue to swing back and forth, 18:01 but they never get that balance 18:02 because they're not founding their theories 18:04 on the word of God. 18:05 Isn't that something? That is something. 18:07 The third force would be humanism. 18:09 When we talked about that a few minutes ago 18:11 and is--as wrong as humanism is there are some things 18:15 that were right about Roger's teaching. 18:16 For instance he said, 18:18 that if the therapist would just bestow upon the client 18:23 unconditional positive regard then the client 18:26 would start to grow and self-actualize. 18:29 Well, there's an element of truth to that, 18:30 that idea of unconditional acceptance 18:33 in love is found in the scriptures. 18:35 God loves us as we are. 18:37 He doesn't love our sin, but He loves the sinner. 18:39 And then in the context of that love 18:41 the sinner can experience kind of a disarming 18:44 that can enable him to change. 18:46 And I think about Mark 12:31 18:47 where second most important scripture 18:50 after the first being are-- let me say this right, 18:54 the second most important law of God, the first being 18:57 " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, 18:59 mind and strength" in Mark 12:30. 19:01 The second was to "Love your neighbor as yourself." 19:04 So there's has to be a healthy regard for self. 19:09 Or you're not going to have a healthy psuche. 19:11 That's true. That's true. 19:13 So there's a self worth that is part of good, you know, 19:16 good development of character and that is something 19:20 that the Bible has--Bible teachings has provided for. 19:23 You know, God says that we should account ourselves 19:25 valuable because of the price that He has put on us. 19:28 You know, amen. 19:30 This is all right--Jennifer, one thing that the Lord really 19:33 impressed upon me was wherever I go to tell people 19:36 that you know one of my favorite-- 19:38 I guess my pet peeve is when people say, 19:40 oh, I'm so unworthy. I'm so unworthy. 19:43 And I tell them you're worth nothing less than the price 19:47 that God paid for you with the blood 19:49 of His own Son, Jesus Christ. 19:52 So to say we're undeserving is true. 19:55 There's nothing that we can do to deserve His love. 19:58 We can't earn it. That's right. 19:59 But to say that we're worthless 20:01 is kind of almost a slap in the face. 20:03 And I mean, I know that there's people assigned different values 20:06 to different words, but that word unworthy. 20:09 God thinks that we are worth quite a lot. 20:11 And when the believer begins to grasp 20:14 that they are accepted and loved and valued by God, 20:18 then they can start to change it. 20:19 So Roger's I think borrowed that concept of unconditional love 20:23 from the scriptures and then changed it little bit 20:26 and put his name on it and marked it as his theory. 20:29 Then the fourth force in psychology 20:32 and some people argue that this isn't really the fourth force, 20:36 but there's a lot of movements within the field 20:38 to get this to be the fourth force is multiculturalism 20:41 and that's all about accepting people 20:44 in the context of diversity. 20:46 Accepting that my culture is different than your culture 20:49 and I can't impose my cultural values on you 20:52 and you can't impose yours on me. 20:54 And that's good to a point because God calls every nation, 20:58 kindred, tongue, and people. 20:59 God is the God of diversity. 21:01 But there's a fatal flaw in that theory as well 21:05 and that is that it's based on the concept of relativism. 21:09 That there really is no absolute standard of right and wrong. 21:13 There is no absolute standard of truth. 21:16 Your truth is for you and it is truth to you. 21:19 Your own subjective world determines what is true for you. 21:22 My subjective world determines what is true and right for me 21:25 and nobody has the right to impose an external value 21:29 upon someone that isn't biblical. 21:31 God says that there is a transcendent, eternal, 21:35 moral code and a standard of truth 21:38 that He does indeed impose upon us. 21:40 So there's good and bad. 21:41 And we know there is such a thing as absolute truth 21:44 and His name is Jesus Christ. 21:45 He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life." 21:48 Now what about this what they called talk therapy? 21:54 How do you feel about that and does that lineup with the Bible? 21:57 Oh, I better like it 21:58 because I do it on a regular basis these days. 22:01 But I really did kind of struggle with that. 22:02 You know the whole notion of paying someone to listen to you 22:06 and then sort out your problems, 22:08 kind of paying someone to care about you in a way. 22:10 It sort of reared up against that, 22:12 but then I ended up in the field. 22:14 So I have had to really examine it 22:17 and I have to say that as I have compared 22:19 the system of counseling that is in place today 22:23 where you actually pay a fee to a therapist 22:25 and you spend an hour with them talking about your issues. 22:29 As I compared that model with the scriptures 22:31 I don't see that exactly mandated in the scriptures, 22:34 but I don't think that because it's not mandated 22:36 in the scriptures in that format means it's wrong. 22:39 I think we need to look at the essence of it 22:41 and basically what the field of psychology has discovered 22:44 is that talk is very therapeutic, 22:46 because talk therapy does produce an outcome. 22:49 It's constantly researched 22:50 to try to figure out of talk therapy works 22:53 and it has to be because the insurance companies 22:55 won't cover it anymore if it doesn't actually works. 22:57 So they have to now prove that it works 22:59 and in fact it does work. 23:01 So for whatever reason talk is very healing, 23:05 very therapeutic and we can see this in the scriptures. 23:10 We're told in Proverbs that "Counsel in the heart of man 23:13 is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out." 23:17 There are some people and you're talking about your husband 23:19 a little while ago and I said, he has the gift of counseling 23:21 because I could just tell he's the kind of guy 23:23 that can intuit his way through a relationship 23:26 and he can pullout the central issues in a person's life 23:29 just almost in a magical way 23:31 and that is the gift of counseling. 23:33 And I want to just correct you on one thing about 23:35 using the word magic because I do really believe 23:37 that the closer he has become-- 23:39 I mean he's always had this gift 23:40 but the closer he's become to the Lord 23:43 and the more he relies on Holy Spirit, 23:45 it really is that intuit deepness, 23:47 discernment gift that God gives him 23:49 and I really believe it's the Holy Spirit working through him, 23:53 but it is astonishing to watch 23:56 because when you ask whether or not talk therapy 23:59 you can watch someone he's talking with and they-- 24:02 they're not trying--they are not trying to fool him, 24:06 they're stating something the way they believe it 24:08 and then as he listens, when he can just get to the core 24:11 and you will see them go, what? 24:14 And all of sudden they're thinking 24:15 and they're sitting there, that's exactly what's going on. 24:18 That's exactly what I'm thinking. 24:20 I just hadn't verbalized it. 24:22 So sometimes there's things that we don't understand about-- 24:26 About ourselves and someone from the outside 24:28 can see the issues more clearly. 24:30 You know, I really respect that gift that he has 24:32 and I've seen since I've been in counseling. 24:35 I've just kind of feel my way through the sessions. 24:37 I mean, I have three years of training 24:38 and they try to make it all organized 24:40 and layout a format for you. 24:42 What supposed to happen in a counseling session 24:44 and really when it comes right down to it, 24:46 it's all intuition and just kind of feeling your way. 24:49 I mean, you have certain skills that you develop, 24:51 but how you apply those skills in the moment is all about rapid 24:54 what they call rapid cognition. 24:56 You have to know what to do in the moment 24:58 and that's something that God has given 24:59 certain people a gift for, so I'm really enthused about that. 25:03 But let's look at some other scriptures 25:05 that talk about counseling. 25:07 Another Proverbs says, 25:08 "Where there is no counsel, the people will fall, 25:10 but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." 25:13 So the whole notion of counseling is very biblical. 25:16 Proverbs 24:6 says, "By wise counsel you wage your own war 25:22 and in a multitude of counselors there is safety." 25:24 And that one kind of struck me 'cause life can be real battle. 25:27 You know, what general would go into a war without some counsel, 25:30 without some help from people on the outside 25:34 that can give him appropriate advice. 25:36 And then I love this verse in Acts 20:31. 25:40 It says that Paul-- it's talking about Paul 25:43 and he says that-- he says, 25:45 "Remember that for three years 25:47 I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears." 25:51 That is a counselor. He is laboring with people. 25:56 He's engaging with them. 25:57 He's getting into their stuff and He's doing it night and day 26:01 for three years long with tears. 26:03 Often times in a counseling session I'll tear up 26:06 when I hear the things that people share with me 26:08 and we'll get to a crucial point 26:10 and it gets very emotional and some people have the ability 26:13 to really connect with people on that level. 26:15 So what you're saying though then if I'm-- 26:18 What the Bible is saying in talk therapy 26:21 is very similar to discipleship? 26:23 That's right. That's right. 26:24 So that's where we're headed is that talk therapy is-- 26:27 especially if you're going to a Christian therapist 26:31 is very similar to discipleship. 26:33 It is discipleship in many respects. 26:35 It isn't all about just sympathizing with the person 26:38 and oh, you know, you have a boo-boo and it hurts. 26:41 It's that. 26:42 It's compassion and tenderness and the ability to connect 26:45 and empathize with people, 26:46 but it's also this ability to confront people on their issues 26:50 where they need confrontation. 26:52 That word Paul says, "I did not cease to warn everyone." 26:56 That word is Nouthesia, which is to put into mind. 27:00 Putting into someone's mind something 27:02 that's not already there, 27:03 you're actually kind of restructuring the brain. 27:05 So the bottom line-- we're just nearly out of time 27:07 and I can't believe how fast this time goes. 27:09 But the bottom line is that 27:12 there are some good things about psychology. 27:16 It isn't totally wrong with the Bible, 27:19 but we want to be careful about the secular psychologist. 27:23 We want to--if you're going to go to a psychologist 27:26 you got be going to a Christian psychologist, I would say. 27:28 And even then draw your sword and be good burin 27:31 and bring home what you learn. 27:34 Jennifer, thank you so much-- It's been a pleasure. 27:36 I cannot believe it has gone by so rapidly. 27:38 And I just want to encourage each one of you as she said, 27:43 be a burin, get into the word and check out any advice 27:46 that anyone gives you. 27:48 Now may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, 27:50 the love of the Father 27:52 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit 27:53 be with you today and always. |
Revised 2014-12-17