Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and we welcome you
again to "Issues and Answers."
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Today our issue is going to
be exposing the counterfeit.
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Unmasking the
one who masquerades
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as an angel of light.
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You know, in 2
Corinthians Chapter 11,
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Paul writes and
he says in verse 14.
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"It is no wonder, for
Satan himself masquerades
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as an angel of light."
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You know, John wrote in 1 John,
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God is love but he
also said "God is light
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and in Him there is
no darkness at all."
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Paul goes on he says,
so here Satan masquerading
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as an angel of light
so it is not surprising
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if your servants also masquerade
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as ministers of righteousness
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but they are in will not
correspond with their deeds.
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Now let me
introduce my guest, you know,
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I'm try to tie that scripture in
with what we're talking about.
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Our guest is Herb
Larson from Canada,
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international
businessman, extraordinary
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and the president of
Imagine Life Ministries.
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You are really a
lay minister too.
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You go out and do a
lot of ministry. Yeah.
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I'm a tent maker I
guess is what you call me
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because of I don't
charge to do ministry but I--
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you know, so I support
myself with my business.
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And you know, and
getting to know you,
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you really do
have a deep personal
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relationship with the Lord.
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Sometimes some of the
things you say are little edgy
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but I think you
do that in purpose,
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a little shock factor
to get people's attention.
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Oh, I think so.
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I think sometimes we need
to get off top to edge center,
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you know, and even myself.
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So you take a bit of
an edgy stands on things
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and it gets people thinking.
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I mean, I love it
when I go speak at a pastor
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retreat or something,
they debate for two days. Yeah.
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Because what it does
is, is I'm not trying to be,
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you know, negative or anti-bible
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but if you bring things
up to get people to think
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and discuss guess what,
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out of that comes sometimes
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you know, benefit. Amen. Amen.
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Now we know the
scripture that I started with
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I don't know the Holy Spirit
just seem to impress that.
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What--on my mind before we begin
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and what I'm thinking is that
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because Satan masquerades
as an angel of light.
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The Bible says that His
word is light unto the feet
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and lamp unto my path.
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The entrance of
this word brings light.
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But what happens is Satan
is always trying to get us
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to doubt God's word.
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He's always
bringing forth some theories,
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some--something that is
a counterfeit to God's word
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and he has this
false light if you will.
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It's kind of like, you know,
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the moon has no
light of its own,
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it only can reflect the sun.
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Well, Satan has no light
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but his reflection is
a distorted reflection
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because he's
trying to fool people.
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So when you're talking about
you doing a little things edgy
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and you're looking at
me like where is she going,
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but when you're talking about
doing things a little bit edgy,
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you mention something to me that
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I felt so fascinating I
wanted to talk about this.
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And that is as you are
practicing friendship evangelism
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and practicing--
you're witnessing,
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telling your
testimony to people.
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People generally speaking
they start calling you back
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and you got them into the Bible,
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reading it hour a day.
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And they call you back and
they start asking questions.
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You send out
your own Bible studies
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and they get to that
point of studying the Sabbath.
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Now when they come back
you don't give them opinion,
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you just have questions
and scriptures. Absolutely.
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But when they come back to you,
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how do you take someone through
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the counterfeit of the Sabbath?
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Well, first of all and
you've already brought it up
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I think well enough as we
have to recognize it for--
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one thing important.
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For everything God is against
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to there's a fake
forgery or counterfeit.
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There's actually
a book published,
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non-religious book
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called fake
forgeries and counterfeits.
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And what it is it's basically
a Bible on how to do that
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in essence I mean, not a Bible
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but you know, I
mean, it's a how to manual.
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Because it's really
trying to teach people how fakes
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and forgeries all happen.
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But the interesting
thing is unless you,
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unless you study the
original, you're gonna be duped.
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Because if you study nothing
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but fake throughout your life--
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like I'm involved
in art, I'm an artist.
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And so you know,
if I look at somebody
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and it looks like a
shingle or whatever else
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looks to me like a
very much could be that.
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But if I study
shingle's original
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so the point where I'm
in front of that thing,
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you know, 10 inches
away looking at every detail.
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And now I see a counterfeit,
it gonna be very evident to me,
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same with the Bible.
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If you're in the Bible
and you're studying the real,
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the counterfeits
become quite obvious.
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But if you aren't in the Bible
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spending a
serious amount of time
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studying the
real or the original
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then it's pretty
easy to get messed up
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and what may be a counterfeit.
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So just what everything we do
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it all comes back to
spending time in the Bible
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understanding the
original or the authentic. Okay.
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And then and only then can
we understand the counterfeit.
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So with that in mind
nobody wants to be duped,
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nobody wants to buy
the Picasso that's a fake.
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Especially spending the
real value and getting a fake.
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And so it's the same
thing in spiritual things.
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I mean nobody
wants to get duped.
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And so, so when people
come to me first of all
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I lead them to Jesus
through my testimony.
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We did a program once
before and that, you and I.
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I lead them only by
sharing what's happened to me
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and then from that point on
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it is not my job
to push them into
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when I think they should
understand certain doctrines
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or certain biblical, you know,
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what I would call
the meat of the word.
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'Cause Paul in 1
Corinthians 3 was very specific,
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he went and evangelized,
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he spent 18 months
evangelizing the Corinthians.
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Four and half years later,
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he now writes them
back that's 1 Corinthians.
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And he writes them back
and says I left you on milk
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'cause you couldn't
handle the meat. Yes.
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And it's-- and he
says you still can't.
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Now that certifies in the face
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sometimes that what we may
be come to the conclusion of.
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Paul should have
given them more back then.
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But no, he's like Jesus.
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Jesus told the disciples
when He's ready to leave,
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He says, there are many things
I like to tell you but I can't.
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I will leave that up to the
Holy Spirit to tell you that.
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Paul did that later
on with the Corinthians.
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So what do we're supposed to do?
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So I leave lot of
that up to the Holy Spirit
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and the timing
of the Holy Spirit,
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if they're in the Bible
and I'm spending time with them
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since study this about
Jesus, study that about Jesus.
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Recognize He needs
you and He wants you,
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so search share what's
happened to you already.
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I get people sharing their
testimony right off the bat
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whether before
they've hardly know anything.
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'Cause I said this
is, I don't know much.
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I said, doesn't matter
what's already happened,
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you're excited about life
now, you can study in the Bible.
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You got this fresh outlook.
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Share that with
somebody else. You think that?
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I said yeah, it will make
a difference in their lives.
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And when you see
a make difference,
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you recognize God needs
you, God wants you. Amen.
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And so that's all part
of holding them on the milk.
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In other words, letting
them taste this courtship.
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I mean, my wife and I courted,
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yeah, I pretty much knew very,
very soon in the first look
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that hey, she would be somebody
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I could probably get married to.
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And I could have probably said
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and she thought I
was the right one,
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right off the bat too.
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So we could have said
hey, you know, it seems right,
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let's just get married
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and forgo the two and
the half years of courtship.
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But I want to tell
you something. All right.
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Where did you get
two and half years
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that's just your
personal experience?
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Well, two and
half years of courtship
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before we got married.
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But we could have said forget
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that part of it
just get married.
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I'm just trying to
say that's not doctrinal,
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you don't have to date
two and half years or--
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No, that's true.
Yeah. I know exactly.
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What you didn't know--
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anyhow, so the
two and half years
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of courtship though was--
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it stills a
highlight in your life. Yes.
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The little games,
the little flirting,
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all those little need
things that take place
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as you get to know each other.
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The new dimension
that unfolds everyday.
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Well, let's read what
dating Jesus in essence.
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When you first
come to know Him, it's--
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you read in the Bible
and you begin to find these
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little things
about Him, you know.
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And it's like,
it's His courtship time.
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We need the courtship,
that what builds the foundation.
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That's what says
yes, He is worth it.
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And yes, when it comes to some
of the rules and regulations
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sometimes that we see in
the Bible they all are valid.
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And now I could understand now
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they have a
relationship with Him.
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Why they are
important in my life?
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Not just keeping rules. Yeah.
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As you suddenly realize
these are boundaries of love
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that He's saying.
Absolutely, inner joy.
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These rules are really not
rules as much as it is saying.
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This is something I'm
gonna empower you to do
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to walk in His
path to protect you.
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It's like you
know, if you're driving
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on a some mountainous
road and it has no guardrail,
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it can be pretty frightening
trying to drive up there
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and if you hit
a little icy spot,
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little slippy spot
and think you're gonna go
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80 feet down into the
canyon that's pretty scary.
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So what God does is,
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He just puts up
these guardrails for us
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and before the courtship,
if you were to hear these,
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you might think oh, it's
nothing about a buts and don't.
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But then once
you begin to know God
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and hear whatever
His rules or regulations.
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You realize these
aren't don'ts, these are dos,
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this is what He's
gonna do in our life
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to keep us protected.
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It will become
part of your life. Yes.
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To the point where
you're not looking out,
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okay, how did I do today? Yeah.
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No, He's just going into the--
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when you allow Him
in, your heart changes.
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So it's automatic, I
mean, you know, Ezekiel 36:31,
00:09:55.46\00:09:58.50
from starting verse 24 says,
00:09:58.53\00:09:59.84
"I will give you
the new heart." Amen.
00:09:59.87\00:10:02.37
And so He wants
to do this is a gift.
00:10:02.40\00:10:05.50
And so, so when I'm
sharing with people,
00:10:05.53\00:10:08.60
I leave them on quoting Jesus.
00:10:08.63\00:10:11.72
I--you know, I just use that
00:10:11.75\00:10:12.81
because we're
using that analogy.
00:10:12.84\00:10:14.26
I leave them on discovering Him,
00:10:14.29\00:10:16.33
spending time,
getting to know Him.
00:10:16.36\00:10:18.50
The little, the little innuendos
00:10:18.53\00:10:20.63
that go on between your
prayer and reading and stuff
00:10:20.66\00:10:22.78
that God does for us.
00:10:22.81\00:10:24.21
And Jesus, you
know, imparts through us.
00:10:24.24\00:10:25.96
I mean, all these
little exciting things
00:10:25.99\00:10:27.27
that I ask for an answer
and then I read it in the Bible
00:10:27.30\00:10:29.57
and there it is. Yes.
00:10:29.60\00:10:30.86
You know, they're just
wonderful little nuggets.
00:10:30.89\00:10:33.36
And so that's
the way Jesus works
00:10:33.39\00:10:34.50
and He builds
His trust just like
00:10:34.53\00:10:35.69
he would be in
relationship. You know.
00:10:35.72\00:10:37.83
I ask Him to guide me
in my understanding this
00:10:37.86\00:10:40.51
and there is the nugget. Yeah.
00:10:40.54\00:10:42.51
It may take me
three-four days of study
00:10:42.54\00:10:44.14
'cause in the interim of
studying that three-four days
00:10:44.17\00:10:47.15
I'm learning new things.
And so, so you live up to God.
00:10:47.18\00:10:50.49
So when they
finally come around now
00:10:50.52\00:10:52.95
and I know that they are
ready for what I call meat.
00:10:52.98\00:10:56.75
In other words
it's the things that
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early on would
have just choked them.
00:10:58.15\00:11:00.50
You know, it's like a
baby that's the analogy given.
00:11:00.53\00:11:02.63
You'll be one day in Jesus. Yes.
00:11:02.66\00:11:04.83
And there comes a point,
you know, we had our kids,
00:11:04.86\00:11:07.66
I mean they start out on milk.
00:11:07.69\00:11:10.32
And then it comes a point
00:11:10.35\00:11:11.38
whether it's a
winning process, you know.
00:11:11.41\00:11:12.93
Now it's--now they can
start eating more solid things.
00:11:12.96\00:11:15.06
It's the same with the Bible.
00:11:15.09\00:11:16.24
The analogy is all
over the place, Hebrews 5.
00:11:16.27\00:11:19.11
And so, so I really
feel its vitally important
00:11:19.14\00:11:23.31
to let people develop
at the rate the Holy Spirit
00:11:23.34\00:11:25.90
wants them to develop.
00:11:25.93\00:11:26.96
Because we don't know
where they are coming from
00:11:26.99\00:11:28.35
what kind of
lessons they need to learn
00:11:28.38\00:11:29.81
in terms of just
relationship with Him.
00:11:29.84\00:11:31.57
When they finally get there,
00:11:31.60\00:11:33.36
they are gonna be
asking you questions.
00:11:33.39\00:11:34.89
Now how do you
answer those questions?
00:11:34.92\00:11:36.63
How do you answer
the meat questions?
00:11:36.66\00:11:39.12
Well, I could
tell anybody the answer
00:11:39.15\00:11:40.68
'cause I can memorize things.
00:11:40.71\00:11:42.03
I mean I've got a
pretty much a state of a mind
00:11:42.06\00:11:44.13
but I can you know, I do
have the capability to measure--
00:11:44.16\00:11:46.37
you know,
memorizing certain elements
00:11:46.40\00:11:48.21
to teach them or whatever.
00:11:48.24\00:11:50.12
Well, I've
discovered of my personal,
00:11:50.15\00:11:53.38
you know, witnessing and
leading people to Jesus life
00:11:53.41\00:11:55.85
which has been last 15 years
00:11:55.88\00:11:57.41
and God sends
me people everyday.
00:11:57.44\00:12:00.25
I've discovered that
doing it the biblical way
00:12:00.28\00:12:04.01
allows these people to
build a solid foundation.
00:12:04.04\00:12:06.43
So when they get to what,
00:12:06.46\00:12:07.78
you know, what may
be considered the meat
00:12:07.81\00:12:09.55
they are ready to eat it,
they are not gonna choke on it.
00:12:09.58\00:12:12.64
And the Holy Spirit leads us.
00:12:12.67\00:12:13.70
So when they phone or you
know, and they phone up or email
00:12:13.73\00:12:16.34
and say well, what about this,
00:12:16.37\00:12:17.73
you know, we understand
you're Seventh-day Adventist.
00:12:17.76\00:12:21.37
You know, what is the difference
00:12:21.40\00:12:22.57
or what--you know,
they starting to question.
00:12:22.60\00:12:25.20
If at that point I still think
00:12:25.23\00:12:26.76
and this is no, this
is exactly what I do it.
00:12:26.79\00:12:28.75
If I still think that
they haven't really developed
00:12:28.78\00:12:30.79
that close relationship
00:12:30.82\00:12:32.56
I say, you know what, I
really want to tell you that,
00:12:32.59\00:12:34.03
you know, I want to
explain that to somebody
00:12:34.06\00:12:35.42
but really right now here, I
want you to read this in John.
00:12:35.45\00:12:37.68
And I would like
you to read that,
00:12:37.71\00:12:38.74
I want you to really
00:12:38.77\00:12:40.31
but if I can see
that they're there
00:12:40.34\00:12:42.90
that the hunger
there is for the meat.
00:12:42.93\00:12:44.64
Then what I do
00:12:44.67\00:12:46.09
is I want them to
come to the conclusion
00:12:46.12\00:12:49.06
on whatever it is,
I'm gonna share with them.
00:12:49.09\00:12:50.76
Not me, see it's what,
00:12:50.79\00:12:52.03
it's when it's their revelation
it's text. Absolutely.
00:12:52.06\00:12:55.01
If I come to a conclusion
00:12:55.04\00:12:56.53
that this is the way
it is on my own logic,
00:12:56.56\00:13:00.29
you know, whatever or
God's logic through me.
00:13:00.32\00:13:03.05
It's gonna stay.
00:13:03.08\00:13:04.81
But if I tell somebody,
00:13:04.84\00:13:06.61
you know,
potatoes are bad for you
00:13:06.64\00:13:08.36
and somebody else says
no, they are good for you.
00:13:08.39\00:13:10.94
Well, you know, I mean
they will believe me for a while
00:13:10.97\00:13:12.99
until somebody else says
00:13:13.02\00:13:14.06
well, no, they are
actually good for you.
00:13:14.09\00:13:15.17
You know what I
mean, it's like opinions
00:13:15.20\00:13:17.39
if that's all people are given
00:13:17.42\00:13:20.76
is somebody
else's idea of what it is
00:13:20.79\00:13:22.68
then as soon as I tell
them they say, yeah, I see it.
00:13:22.71\00:13:24.73
Then somebody
else say, no it's not,
00:13:24.76\00:13:25.99
it's this way they see that.
00:13:26.02\00:13:28.16
If they come to
their own revelation
00:13:28.19\00:13:30.50
where all of a sudden they say,
oh, I came to this conclusion.
00:13:30.53\00:13:35.47
It sticks. So how do I do that?
00:13:35.50\00:13:38.30
Well, first of
all, the one thing
00:13:38.33\00:13:40.89
that's universally
accepted by every denomination.
00:13:40.92\00:13:44.76
And like I said
in previous shows
00:13:44.79\00:13:47.05
I speak in all
different denominations,
00:13:47.08\00:13:48.76
Baptists, Methodists, Mennonites
00:13:48.79\00:13:51.19
and you know, in
Christian colleges
00:13:51.22\00:13:52.85
by their fates and stuff.
00:13:52.88\00:13:54.40
And so I'm not
there to tell them
00:13:54.43\00:13:56.19
what they should do
but if God can use me
00:13:56.22\00:13:58.55
to allow them to come
to a revelation, why not?
00:13:58.58\00:14:02.55
And so but when they--
you know it's universal,
00:14:02.58\00:14:04.37
everybody would agree on
in Christianity as this fact.
00:14:04.40\00:14:07.93
For everything that
God has ever instituted
00:14:07.96\00:14:09.48
there's a fake
forgery counterfeit.
00:14:09.51\00:14:11.63
I mean Chuck Swindoll
00:14:11.66\00:14:12.72
any of them will say the
same thing. Yes, absolutely.
00:14:12.75\00:14:14.23
I mean there's no
question about it.
00:14:14.26\00:14:16.78
So I agree with that too.
00:14:16.81\00:14:18.77
So what I do, then as I
say, well, let look at some.
00:14:18.80\00:14:21.91
Let's look at some of
the fakes and forgeries.
00:14:21.94\00:14:23.63
And you know
what, if you start at
00:14:23.66\00:14:24.69
the very first
verse in the Bible,
00:14:24.72\00:14:26.38
that's a good place to start.
00:14:26.41\00:14:28.33
So that's what I do. I
say let's go to Genesis 1.
00:14:28.36\00:14:31.13
And so I will turn to Genesis 1,
00:14:31.16\00:14:32.54
in my Bible I highlight
these in a different colored
00:14:32.57\00:14:34.74
just because I want to
run through them quickly,
00:14:34.77\00:14:36.43
it's just the way I do it.
00:14:36.46\00:14:38.20
But so what I do is
I ask them questions,
00:14:38.23\00:14:39.70
okay, read the first scripture
reference and they read.
00:14:39.73\00:14:41.55
"In the beginning God created
the heaven and the earth."
00:14:41.58\00:14:44.25
So I say what would
the-- what could their--
00:14:44.28\00:14:46.58
what counterfeit
could be hidden here.
00:14:46.61\00:14:49.17
It doesn't take long
to figure out evolution.
00:14:49.20\00:14:51.30
God created, they say evolution.
00:14:51.33\00:14:54.07
So I immediately
ask them a question.
00:14:54.10\00:14:55.68
Does it matter
that most of the world,
00:14:55.71\00:14:57.13
possible most of the world
00:14:57.16\00:14:59.14
believes that
evolution is the way
00:14:59.17\00:15:00.58
we, you know,
they our origin. Yeah.
00:15:00.61\00:15:03.74
Or is it more important to
believe what the Bible say?
00:15:03.77\00:15:05.54
What they will say it's
more important to believe
00:15:05.57\00:15:06.73
what the Bible
say. Okay, see move on.
00:15:06.76\00:15:08.46
You go to verse 5
00:15:08.49\00:15:09.76
and the evening and the
morning with the first day.
00:15:09.79\00:15:11.99
And I say not a big one
00:15:12.02\00:15:13.30
but its interesting
thing we'll discover here.
00:15:13.33\00:15:15.19
The day break here is
from evening unto evening.
00:15:15.22\00:15:18.70
Could there be a counterfeit
00:15:18.73\00:15:19.77
or something
that was changed here?
00:15:19.80\00:15:21.20
Yeah. That's good.
00:15:21.23\00:15:22.61
And I say you
know, sometimes I think
00:15:22.64\00:15:24.19
and I say okay,
when we do break our day?
00:15:24.22\00:15:25.74
When is the new
one starting midnight?
00:15:25.77\00:15:27.39
Okay and I say
we'll start a big deal
00:15:27.42\00:15:28.67
but later on
we'll have ramifications
00:15:28.70\00:15:30.14
but it interesting thing.
00:15:30.17\00:15:31.30
So we got two here,
we really got into it.
00:15:31.33\00:15:34.01
Then I go over in to verse 26,
"Let us make man in our image."
00:15:34.04\00:15:38.92
What could the
counterfeit be there?
00:15:38.95\00:15:41.29
And if they don't get right away
I'll give them a hinder two.
00:15:41.32\00:15:43.32
What's the evolution theory
say that we are in the image of?
00:15:43.35\00:15:46.20
It's a monkey, it's an ape.
00:15:46.23\00:15:48.58
And so when I say does it
matter that most of the society
00:15:48.61\00:15:50.92
or lot of society believes that
00:15:50.95\00:15:52.44
we evolve from a monkey
in the image of a monkey
00:15:52.47\00:15:54.92
rather than an
image of our loving God.
00:15:54.95\00:15:57.75
And they will agree,
of course it matters,
00:15:57.78\00:15:59.26
Bible, the truth matters.
00:15:59.29\00:16:01.48
Verse 27, "So God
created man in His own image,
00:16:01.51\00:16:03.74
in the image of God
created him male and female,
00:16:03.77\00:16:06.10
He created them."
Heterosexuality started here.
00:16:06.13\00:16:10.24
What could the counterfeit
be that or we will get that?
00:16:10.27\00:16:13.61
And you notice I'm taking notes.
00:16:13.64\00:16:15.59
And so then we
move on to verse 29.
00:16:15.62\00:16:18.41
And then I asked
again, does it matter
00:16:18.44\00:16:19.65
that lot of
people believe in another
00:16:19.68\00:16:21.89
alternate style of
sexuality than heterosexuality?
00:16:21.92\00:16:24.80
And they will say,
yes, it does matter.
00:16:24.83\00:16:26.33
You know the Bible
is the one is right.
00:16:26.36\00:16:28.34
Verse 29, "Every
herb bearing seed
00:16:28.37\00:16:30.56
which is upon
the face of the earth
00:16:30.59\00:16:31.83
and every tree in the,
00:16:31.86\00:16:33.47
in which is the fruit
of the tree yielding seed,
00:16:33.50\00:16:35.78
to you it shall be your meat.
00:16:35.81\00:16:37.64
And every beast of
the earth in there."
00:16:37.67\00:16:39.31
And you go on and talk about
00:16:39.34\00:16:40.37
that will be the
seed in the grass,
00:16:40.40\00:16:41.59
that they are meat too.
00:16:41.62\00:16:42.86
And there meat
being food. Right. Yeah.
00:16:42.89\00:16:45.45
And exactly and so I said
00:16:45.48\00:16:47.46
it's not a life or
death situation here
00:16:47.49\00:16:49.13
but at the same
time, it doesn't go,
00:16:49.16\00:16:50.65
if I did interesting.
00:16:50.68\00:16:52.67
The God said I will give
you the grain of the field
00:16:52.70\00:16:55.57
as your meat for
both animals and humans.
00:16:55.60\00:16:57.63
So that the real is
we're gonna be vegetation.
00:16:57.66\00:17:00.46
And I said this isn't about,
you know, you got to do this,
00:17:00.49\00:17:02.56
your lifestyle or
rules or anything else.
00:17:02.59\00:17:03.87
I'm just bringing this up.
00:17:03.90\00:17:05.76
And then I say, isn't
that interesting that,
00:17:05.79\00:17:07.78
that's what God gives
and what is the counterfeit,
00:17:07.81\00:17:10.30
what would that
be? Oh, eat each other.
00:17:10.33\00:17:14.12
You know, so all these things
00:17:14.15\00:17:16.15
we're not even out of
the first chapter of Genesis
00:17:16.18\00:17:19.83
and here's all this
counterfeit showing up.
00:17:19.86\00:17:22.41
Now then what I do
is I go to Chapter 2,
00:17:22.44\00:17:24.83
move to the next chapter.
00:17:24.86\00:17:27.06
And it said, "And
on the seventh day
00:17:27.09\00:17:28.61
God ended His
work which He had made,
00:17:28.64\00:17:30.71
and He rested on the seventh day
00:17:30.74\00:17:32.08
from all His work
which He had made.
00:17:32.11\00:17:34.20
And God blessed the
seventh day, and sanctified it,
00:17:34.23\00:17:36.26
because that in it he
had rested from all his work
00:17:36.29\00:17:38.57
which God created and made."
00:17:38.60\00:17:39.69
Okay, we just got
through going through
00:17:39.72\00:17:42.05
a half a dozen
counterfeits earlier on,
00:17:42.08\00:17:45.22
could there be
another, could we assume
00:17:45.25\00:17:47.03
because there's so
many counterfeits already
00:17:47.06\00:17:48.62
that there could be
another counterfeit here.
00:17:48.65\00:17:51.63
I have them read
the stuff, you know.
00:17:51.66\00:17:53.76
And so they won't get it
a lot of times, that's fine.
00:17:53.79\00:17:56.34
I mean who would
unless somebody told you
00:17:56.37\00:17:57.91
and so I said read it again.
00:17:57.94\00:17:59.19
So they read it again,
sometimes it's three four times.
00:17:59.22\00:18:01.60
I'm not gonna
tell them the answer.
00:18:01.63\00:18:03.08
It's not my job
telling the answer.
00:18:03.11\00:18:05.48
It's my job to lead
them to their own revelation.
00:18:05.51\00:18:08.60
So then when they finally get
down say well, we don't get it.
00:18:08.63\00:18:10.30
I said, what day
is it talking about
00:18:10.33\00:18:11.78
that the God set
aside as the day of rest.
00:18:11.81\00:18:15.79
He set aside, well,
seventh, they said okay,
00:18:15.82\00:18:18.50
what day of the week is that?
00:18:18.53\00:18:20.70
They'll get that one.
00:18:20.73\00:18:22.09
I say so could there
be a counterfeit here.
00:18:22.12\00:18:24.02
So they know the
seventh day is the Saturday.
00:18:24.05\00:18:25.78
Yes, 'cause it's
clear there. And guess what?
00:18:25.81\00:18:28.93
All of a sudden it's
like, no way, or what?
00:18:28.96\00:18:35.34
And now guess what?
It's their revelation.
00:18:35.37\00:18:36.81
They say what is that mean?
00:18:36.84\00:18:37.87
I say, you know what,
here I got to study on this,
00:18:37.90\00:18:40.62
no opinion expressed
00:18:40.65\00:18:43.08
I'll hand you this,
you're gonna look into deeper.
00:18:43.11\00:18:44.80
You have to decide
00:18:44.83\00:18:45.86
I'm not here to tell
you what you have to do.
00:18:45.89\00:18:48.73
You have to decide
what you think is right.
00:18:48.76\00:18:52.77
You told me before
that it doesn't matter
00:18:52.80\00:18:54.47
that most of the
world leaves you evolved,
00:18:54.50\00:18:56.48
you said that it really
matters what the Bible says.
00:18:56.51\00:18:58.86
Now just let me ask
you one of the question,
00:18:58.89\00:19:01.00
does it matter that
much of Christianity
00:19:01.03\00:19:04.21
chooses another day?
00:19:04.24\00:19:05.44
This is the rest day,
00:19:05.47\00:19:06.50
why would you
start your work resting,
00:19:06.53\00:19:08.00
your week resting. You
end after work with a rest.
00:19:08.03\00:19:14.24
So I just say it's up to you,
00:19:14.27\00:19:15.76
and honestly I mean
that, it is up to them.
00:19:15.79\00:19:20.28
If I can be a
instrument in God's hand
00:19:20.31\00:19:23.18
to make them aware of
the fakes counterfeits
00:19:23.21\00:19:24.92
and forgeries of Satan
00:19:24.95\00:19:27.98
and they see it and they
come to their own conclusion,
00:19:28.01\00:19:31.44
they have to
decide. That's good.
00:19:31.47\00:19:33.64
And if they're in
the bible studying
00:19:33.67\00:19:35.30
like I tell them they have
to from day one an hour a day.
00:19:35.33\00:19:38.88
I don't care if
they're an atheist or not.
00:19:38.91\00:19:41.25
If they're in
the bible studying,
00:19:41.28\00:19:43.13
they're in the right hands, why?
00:19:43.16\00:19:44.89
'Cause the Holy Spirit is
gonna teach them all things.
00:19:44.92\00:19:46.54
Absolutely.
00:19:46.57\00:19:48.12
And so-- And again 1
Corinthians 2:14 says
00:19:48.15\00:19:50.43
these are spirit words,
they are spiritually designed,
00:19:50.46\00:19:53.10
got to have the
spirit and it needs them.
00:19:53.13\00:19:56.43
I mean it's so good to allow,
00:19:56.46\00:19:58.90
you know, Jesus
said in John 6:63,
00:19:58.93\00:20:01.22
He said the spirit-- the
flesh counts for nothing,
00:20:01.25\00:20:04.67
only the spirit brings life.
00:20:04.70\00:20:06.27
So we can try to really
force feed the "meat" too soon
00:20:06.30\00:20:13.73
before they've got any
scriptural teeth if you will
00:20:13.76\00:20:16.72
and they cannot
chew it up and digest it
00:20:16.75\00:20:20.04
so it's just kind of
something that goes down
00:20:20.07\00:20:23.33
and comes back up.
00:20:23.36\00:20:24.62
But if we allow them, if
we get them into the word
00:20:24.65\00:20:27.60
and let them develop that
relationship with the Lord
00:20:27.63\00:20:31.17
and then guide them though this,
00:20:31.20\00:20:33.64
it's very good process.
00:20:33.67\00:20:34.98
I'm enjoying what you're saying.
00:20:35.01\00:20:36.25
Well, it's just that--
it just that what it does,
00:20:36.28\00:20:39.79
see, I don't know,
see some people can
00:20:39.82\00:20:42.22
get married after
a month of dating.
00:20:42.25\00:20:45.64
Maybe that's all they need.
00:20:45.67\00:20:46.82
Maybe that's unlocked all the,
you know, idiosyncrasies of it.
00:20:46.85\00:20:50.11
I don't know and that's fine,
you know, if that works, great.
00:20:50.14\00:20:53.25
Well, that's was
two and half years
00:20:53.28\00:20:54.37
but whatever it's the
same thing with Jesus.
00:20:54.40\00:20:55.48
Maybe some people can
take it quicker than others.
00:20:55.51\00:20:57.97
But to assume, to
make the assumption
00:20:58.00\00:21:00.80
to take the place
of the Holy Spirit
00:21:00.83\00:21:02.46
in essence and saying,
00:21:02.49\00:21:03.69
you need to know
this, you need to know this,
00:21:03.72\00:21:05.08
you need to know this.
00:21:05.11\00:21:07.77
I don't really want to be there
in that position to be pushing
00:21:07.80\00:21:10.62
when somebody should have meat.
00:21:10.65\00:21:12.72
I want to be there
as God's instrument
00:21:12.75\00:21:16.50
to lead them to an understanding
00:21:16.53\00:21:19.03
of whatever
they're asking. Okay.
00:21:19.06\00:21:20.76
And that's, yeah--
00:21:20.79\00:21:21.87
My husband says he works
in the pastoral department,
00:21:21.90\00:21:24.91
you know JD? Right, yeah.
00:21:24.94\00:21:26.48
At 3ABN and he said that
they are thank you, I think so.
00:21:26.51\00:21:29.87
He says that, you know,
you've heard the 80-20 rule,
00:21:29.90\00:21:33.08
like 80% of
people do 20% of the work
00:21:33.11\00:21:37.00
and he actually I
remember what he was saying,
00:21:37.03\00:21:40.91
20% of people do 80% of work.
00:21:40.94\00:21:43.00
I know I'd get that wrong.
00:21:43.03\00:21:44.29
Anyway he said there's really
is a kind of an 80-20 rule
00:21:44.32\00:21:47.29
with people who call in.
00:21:47.32\00:21:48.57
He said there's some people,
you know that are real seekers,
00:21:48.60\00:21:52.28
he said it seemed like
about 20% of the callers
00:21:52.31\00:21:54.83
are real seekers and
they wanted all right now.
00:21:54.86\00:21:57.37
He used to say that I was--
00:21:57.40\00:21:58.86
you know he still does
that I'm a seeker of the truth.
00:21:58.89\00:22:01.21
I'm not one that wants
it a little bit at a time,
00:22:01.24\00:22:04.17
I mean I want to jump in
00:22:04.20\00:22:05.72
and dig go deep
down into the scripture
00:22:05.75\00:22:08.54
and I guess that
what you're saying
00:22:08.57\00:22:11.53
if I'm
interpreting this right Herb,
00:22:11.56\00:22:13.64
is that we need to treat
each individual just as that,
00:22:13.67\00:22:17.64
as an individual, with
a lot of prayer asking God
00:22:17.67\00:22:20.05
and letting them they are
ready to progress were there
00:22:20.08\00:22:25.71
praying them through
00:22:25.74\00:22:26.97
and then as they
already progressed
00:22:27.00\00:22:28.68
where they're with
the next step to give them
00:22:28.71\00:22:30.53
to show them a way to a deeper
relationship with the Lord
00:22:30.56\00:22:33.62
and a better
understanding of the Bible.
00:22:33.65\00:22:35.22
Absolutely, and God
uses us as facilitators. Yes.
00:22:35.25\00:22:38.97
He uses us, but the
thing is this sometimes,
00:22:39.00\00:22:41.75
and here's where Laodicean
comes into the whole formula
00:22:41.78\00:22:43.90
as the problem is
we make the assumption
00:22:43.93\00:22:46.72
that maybe
everything is fine in our camp,
00:22:46.75\00:22:49.78
you know, maybe we are all okay.
00:22:49.81\00:22:51.91
And so we're
patiently waiting around
00:22:51.94\00:22:54.27
if we want to
employ this technique,
00:22:54.30\00:22:56.11
we're patiently waiting around,
00:22:56.14\00:22:57.43
you know, for these other people
00:22:57.46\00:22:58.57
to come to the
same understanding
00:22:58.60\00:23:00.39
we have it whatever
else when we're told clearly
00:23:00.42\00:23:04.20
that sometimes we need to
go back to the basics. Yeah.
00:23:04.23\00:23:08.99
You know, that and let me just
try and find here real quick.
00:23:09.02\00:23:13.79
Okay, here Hebrews 5:12.
00:23:13.82\00:23:16.46
It says, "For when for the
time ye ought to be teachers,"
00:23:16.49\00:23:19.00
Okay, what Paul is
talking about here?
00:23:19.03\00:23:20.94
He saw talking at
Hebrews, he's saying,
00:23:20.97\00:23:22.71
for the time you--
in other translation,
00:23:22.74\00:23:24.25
for the time you've
already spent with me
00:23:24.28\00:23:26.47
and the Bible, you
should be teachers. Yes.
00:23:26.50\00:23:30.09
Then it says ye have
need, but here's the problem,
00:23:30.12\00:23:32.52
"Ye have need one
that teach you again
00:23:32.55\00:23:35.14
which be the first principles
of the oracles of God,
00:23:35.17\00:23:37.70
and are became such
as nave need of milk,
00:23:37.73\00:23:39.94
and not of strong meat."
00:23:39.97\00:23:41.77
So he's telling
those who should have
00:23:41.80\00:23:43.54
enough time behind them,
00:23:43.57\00:23:45.08
where they should be
teachers by now, say,
00:23:45.11\00:23:46.45
no, no, go back and
start on milk again.
00:23:46.48\00:23:49.18
You need me again.
00:23:49.21\00:23:50.24
You need the basic
understanding of me
00:23:50.27\00:23:52.00
before you can even impart meat
00:23:52.03\00:23:53.99
or even handle it yourselves.
00:23:54.02\00:23:57.07
And so the Bible is full
of this in essence telling us,
00:23:57.10\00:24:00.54
slow down, I can do the work.
00:24:00.57\00:24:02.91
You know, here-- let
me read this to you--
00:24:02.94\00:24:05.06
it reads so
differently from the amplified.
00:24:05.09\00:24:06.85
Same but different,
look, it says in verse 10,
00:24:06.88\00:24:10.49
where do we start
here? Verse 12, I'm sorry.
00:24:10.52\00:24:13.12
In verse 12, "For
even though by this time,
00:24:13.15\00:24:15.39
you ought to be teaching others,
00:24:15.42\00:24:17.17
you actually need
someone to teach you over again
00:24:17.20\00:24:19.76
the very first
principles of God's word.
00:24:19.79\00:24:22.23
You have come to need
milk, not solid food."
00:24:22.26\00:24:26.81
He goes on in verse 14 and says
00:24:26.84\00:24:29.54
that "solid food is
for the mature person,
00:24:29.57\00:24:32.54
the full grown
person, those whose senses
00:24:32.57\00:24:35.63
and mental faculties
are trained by practice."
00:24:35.66\00:24:41.48
And I think that this is trained
by practice to discriminate
00:24:41.51\00:24:45.16
and distinguish between
what is morally good and noble,
00:24:45.19\00:24:47.73
what is evil and contrary
00:24:47.76\00:24:49.44
to either to
the minor human law.
00:24:49.47\00:24:52.85
So I think as I interpret this
00:24:52.88\00:24:55.44
is that Paul is
saying we really,
00:24:55.47\00:24:58.82
I mean, you can
study all you want
00:24:58.85\00:25:00.66
to answer the Sabbath
school quarterly questions
00:25:00.69\00:25:03.64
but you really only get to
know God's word as you study it
00:25:03.67\00:25:08.22
and then begin to
put it into practice.
00:25:08.25\00:25:10.93
You know, we learned to teach,
00:25:10.96\00:25:13.05
teach to learn type
thing, as you're learning this,
00:25:13.08\00:25:16.60
if you're not out
there putting it in practice,
00:25:16.63\00:25:18.80
then it just kind of
goes straight through.
00:25:18.83\00:25:22.05
It's a gilt and you
should receive how much?
00:25:22.08\00:25:24.03
Refilled but more. Yeah.
00:25:24.06\00:25:25.90
Same with the
scripture. Absolutely.
00:25:25.93\00:25:28.08
And so God,
that's exactly right.
00:25:28.11\00:25:29.60
I mean that's
what he wants to do is
00:25:29.63\00:25:32.49
He wants to give
us His abundant life
00:25:32.52\00:25:34.10
but He's telling us, He's
giving us warning signs. Yeah.
00:25:34.13\00:25:36.78
Don't think, don't be so pompous
00:25:36.81\00:25:38.44
to think you've
got it all figured out
00:25:38.47\00:25:40.02
and you're now the chef
00:25:40.05\00:25:41.31
who's gonna feed either
milk or meat to somebody else,
00:25:41.34\00:25:44.19
you may need to go back
to the very basics of all
00:25:44.22\00:25:47.87
and build a relationship
with Jesus one on one
00:25:47.90\00:25:50.27
before you can handle the meat.
00:25:50.30\00:25:52.16
And you got to be--
you know, every time
00:25:52.19\00:25:54.07
you speak of some other
scripture bounces off you a bit
00:25:54.10\00:25:57.29
and in Mark
4:24, listen to this,
00:25:57.32\00:25:59.67
he said, Jesus said to them,
00:25:59.70\00:26:01.74
"Be careful
what you are hearing.
00:26:01.77\00:26:03.47
The measure of thought
00:26:03.50\00:26:04.53
and study you give to the truth
00:26:04.56\00:26:05.94
you hear will be the
measure of virtual knowledge
00:26:05.97\00:26:08.08
that comes back to you
00:26:08.11\00:26:09.61
and more besides
will be given to you."
00:26:09.64\00:26:11.72
So it all comes back
to that final principle
00:26:11.75\00:26:15.29
of where you start somebody,
00:26:15.32\00:26:17.26
when you're witnessing to them
00:26:17.29\00:26:18.87
is to get them into the
Bible for an hour. Absolutely.
00:26:18.90\00:26:23.40
Every day to get in
the Bible for an hour,
00:26:23.43\00:26:25.91
every day, you challenge them,
00:26:25.94\00:26:27.24
it's 60 day
challenge that you give them
00:26:27.27\00:26:29.29
but you find that after that
00:26:29.32\00:26:30.95
it's just becomes,
it becomes a habit.
00:26:30.98\00:26:32.63
I know it's gonna
be sooner than that
00:26:32.66\00:26:34.14
but you know what happens,
00:26:34.17\00:26:35.22
they begin to
phone me immediately
00:26:35.25\00:26:37.25
and start saying, wow,
this happened, this happened,
00:26:37.28\00:26:39.34
that happened and this is what--
00:26:39.37\00:26:40.63
you know what do
you think about this.
00:26:40.66\00:26:42.87
Because if you give
them time in the word,
00:26:42.90\00:26:44.86
the Holy Spirit's
gonna do the work.
00:26:44.89\00:26:46.09
It's not my job
takes the pressure off me
00:26:46.12\00:26:49.99
because then I can go out
and shared with other people.
00:26:50.02\00:26:52.39
Oh, mercy.
00:26:52.42\00:26:53.45
And it's just wonderful
00:26:53.48\00:26:54.67
and if you look at
2 Timothy 3:7 it says
00:26:54.70\00:26:56.95
some people ever learning
00:26:56.98\00:26:58.01
but never able to come
to the knowledge of truth.
00:26:58.04\00:27:00.09
Well, you know, we
want to be on to giving end.
00:27:00.12\00:27:02.78
Well, find Jesus first
00:27:02.81\00:27:04.06
and then He's
going to use you. Amen.
00:27:04.09\00:27:05.59
We're already up, our time
is all gone I can't believe it.
00:27:05.62\00:27:09.01
But we want to thank
you, so much for coming back
00:27:09.04\00:27:11.69
and thank you,
for sharing this about
00:27:11.72\00:27:13.84
how Satan has a counterfeit,
00:27:13.87\00:27:17.23
a forgery or a fraud
for everything. Absolutely.
00:27:17.26\00:27:20.17
Thank you, so much. okay.
00:27:20.20\00:27:21.95
For those of you at home,
00:27:21.98\00:27:23.19
I hope that you
have enjoyed this time.
00:27:23.22\00:27:25.38
It certainly has flown by for me
00:27:25.41\00:27:27.43
and, you know, we always want
to leave you with this thought
00:27:27.46\00:27:31.50
and it's our
prayer for you actually
00:27:31.53\00:27:33.55
and that is that the
grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
00:27:33.58\00:27:36.50
grace being more than
just a narrative favor.
00:27:36.53\00:27:39.58
His super abundant power
to salvation is His grace.
00:27:39.61\00:27:44.27
May His grace,
the love of the Father
00:27:44.30\00:27:46.99
and the
fellowship of the Holy Spirit
00:27:47.02\00:27:49.22
be with you today and always.
00:27:49.25\00:27:51.75
Remember, get in the word
00:27:51.78\00:27:53.51
and study to show
yourself approved.
00:27:53.54\00:27:56.00