Participants: J.D. Quinn (Host), Gordon and Waveney Martinborough
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000288
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00:29 Welcome to Issues and Answers. My name is J.D. Quinn. I just
00:35 welcome each one of you with us today. We are just thankful for 00:38 this wonderful day that God has created. 00:40 We always like to start the pro- gram out with a scripture, so 00:46 I want to go to 1 John 4:8. It says in the New King James 00:51 Version, "He who does not love does not know God, 00:54 for God is love. " Today we've got a topic that sometimes is 01:00 confusing: How to differentiate between true love and Satan's 01:06 counterfeit, which is lust. We have a couple here from Orlando, 01:11 Florida who are going to intro- duce us to how to differentiate 01:15 between these two and this is Gordon and Waveny Martin-Burl. 01:19 They are from Orlando, Florida and we welcome you to Issues 01:23 and answers today. This is going to be a fun time. Before 01:27 we get started with our topic thought, tell us a little bit 01:30 about yourselves. Where did you meet? When? What's 01:34 going on in your life? 01:37 Well, the young Gordon: We have been married, Waveny and I, for 01:44 more than 44 years. That's right.. We are 01:50 both from Guyana, South America. We have enjoyed our lives 01:55 together. We have three grown children, Esther, Samuel and 02:01 Joan. For more than 40 years I have been in ministry as a 02:06 minister of the Seventh-day Adventist church. I have served 02:11 in a variety of fields: Wales as pastor, departmental director 02:16 in administration at the conference level, the union 02:20 level and the division level. But through it all there have 02:25 been two passions for me. One is family ministry and the other 02:30 is evangelism and those have stayed with me. 02:34 This is my wife, Waveny. She will tell you something more. 02:37 about herself. When you said "Waveny" I've never heard that 02:40 name before. Wave nee. As we we're talking earlier, she says 02:44 the way to remember it is the wave and, then of course, the 02:47 knee. So that's the way I have put it together. It's a 02:50 wonderful name. I've never heard it before, Waveny. 02:54 So tell us about yourself Waveny. 02:56 Okay. I am Waveny and my pro- fession is education. I'm an 03:02 educator. Actually I have taught in the different levels: 03:08 That's preschool, elementary, school, high school and then 03:13 college which is now our university. For the past 10 03:18 years, however, I have worked at the Interamerican Division 03:22 as the first Women's Ministries Director for that division. 03:27 I also worked as director for Family Ministry. So we have 03:32 been working together for the past 10 years. 03:34 We have recently retired. 03:39 Recently retired, "retired" in quotes. 03:40 Yes, yes. You're probably busier now than ever before. 03:44 I love your laugh. It is absolutely fantastic. 03:47 So now, I have looked at a couple of your books and they 03:50 they're absolutely fantastic. You spent so many hours putting 03:54 this all together. What brought this love; now we're talking 03:57 about family relationships and, you know, the different 04:01 aspects of it. How did all that happen? 04:04 Well, my interest in family started as a pastor, counseling 04:09 young people preparing for marrying, and it dawned upon me 04:12 that what we are giving to these young people, everybody 04:16 needs. So we got interested in family ministry and then because 04:20 of my love for evangelism, I thought why not bring this into 04:25 evangelism. We used to do Family as a little nugget before 04:30 the sermon. One day a young pastor, Pastor Redver Stillbert 04:36 of Grenada challenged me. He said, Elder you 04:38 are talking two times. why not 04:40 talk one time? Why not put these two things together and 04:44 make one? I told him, that can't be done. But within a few 04:48 weeks the Lord showed me how it could be done. Since then we 04:53 have been developing. Today it is perfected. It is being used 04:57 in the various countries of the world, in the Philippines, in 05:03 countries in Europe, in Latin America. We have just been 05:08 requested to get permission that some of this material be 05:13 translated for China and Japan to be used in those countries 05:16 where it is difficult to start with the gospel, but we can 05:20 start with the family. You will be happy to know that folk can 05:30 access what we have on our web site: www. happyfamilybsi. com 05:40 and our toll free number is 800-291-3060. 05:48 Amen, Amen. Well let's get... I know that there are seven 05:53 steps that y'all have put together. Is it love, is it 05:57 the real thing or is it fake? Is there a counterfeit and I am 06:00 assuming that we've got love on one hand and we have lust on the 06:04 other. Why don't you take us through these seven steps. 06:07 Do you want to start? 06:09 Yes, we'll be happy to do that. The first contrast, contrast #1 06:15 is that lust is a changeable feeling while love is an 06:22 enduring principle. That's a big difference. 06:25 You see, our feelings change. This morning I wake up, I feel 06:30 good, I kiss her. The more I wake up, I feel bad, I kick her. 06:35 And that is how many people behave and that is because the 06:40 relationship is based on the counterfeit. The counterfeit 06:44 deals with feelings only. Of course, love has feelings, but 06:48 love is more than a feeling. Love is a principle and the 06:52 principle does not change. In 1 Corinthians 13 it says: Love 06:58 never fails, and that is the first difference. 07:02 All right, now we go to the second contrast and that says 07:11 "Passion is blind, but love sees and examines. In Roman 07:19 literature, J.D., the Romans had many gods and the god of love 07:26 was Cupid. Cupid was a little boy with a bow and arrow, a 07:34 blindfolded boy, bow and arrow, going around shooting arrows at 07:39 individuals. Anyone who was shot, the first person that one 07:45 person met, he fell in love with that individual. Now, is that 07:51 love? Of course not; that can't be love. You see love sees 07:57 and examines and that is what is happening to many of our 08:03 young people today. They say well I love this individual and 08:08 the parents say, well you know this guy, John, is very lazy. 08:13 Well, I don't see that. But then afterwards they get married, 08:18 then she realizes that he is lazy and she cannot stand it 08:24 and so they separate and they divorce. But love sees, love 08:30 examines. So we need to take time to examine. 08:35 Christ had a question for us: He says, Having eyes do you not 08:41 see? In other words, use those eyes that you have to examine 08:46 Then I would assume that it's very important, as the kids of 08:50 today's world are getting married, that they do need to 08:53 seek advice from their parents and from, say, their pastor and 08:59 their friends. Because, you know, perhaps they can see 09:02 something that they cannot see. And, you know, I think that 09:08 Mrs. White says that we need to pray four times harder than we 09:12 would ordinarily do before we found that mate that we were 09:16 thinking about spending our life with. You know, the second most 09:19 important decision that we will every make is who we are going 09:22 to spend our life with. Of course, the first important 09:24 decision that we make is to serve Jesus Christ as our 09:27 Savior. Yes. 09:28 All right. The third contrast between love and lust is that 09:36 lust is obsessed with the externals, while love is 09:42 concerned is concerned with the internal. Let's explain what we 09:49 mean by these two terms. When we speak of externals, we're 09:53 talking of the figure, the fashion, the sex appeal. 09:56 And when we think of the internals, we are talking of 09:59 personality. We are taking of habits. We are taking of 10:02 character. We are talking of what is really inside, who the 10:09 person really is. This is very important. Of course, love 10:13 admires the externals. That is how we get connected to 10:18 somebody anyhow in the first place. It's the externals. But 10:23 love does not stop there. Love moves from the external to the 10:28 internal and it starts to examine personality, character, 10:32 the habits of the individual, because those are the things 10:37 that will keep the marriage together as we face the future. 10:42 If you remember when the prophet Samuel was looking for the 10:47 second king of Israel, he went to the home of Jesse. Remember 10:53 that story? Then he saw the first son, Eliab, he said 10:57 that's the king, you know. He looked like a king; he had the 11:02 bearing of the king. The Lord said, No, no. He said, Man looks 11:07 on the outer appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. 11:14 That's found in 1 Samuel 16:7. So the Lord took the youngest 11:19 brother, the shepherd boy, who didn't look like a king, but he 11:25 had the heart of a king. And what this point is saying is 11:30 that like the Lord, we need to move beyond the externals and 11:35 look at the internal and see who the person really is, because 11:40 lust focuses only on the externals; love is 11:44 concerned with the internals. 11:46 So I would assume that time plays an important factor here. 11:53 Maybe six months might not cut it. Exactly, Exactly. When 11:57 we're dating, you know, you always show up, you smell good 12:01 you look good, you know, and you know, lots of times in 12:05 relationships you don't see each other but once every weekend 12:12 but you need to spend some time, maybe two years with lots of 12:17 prayer, with lots of spiritual advice, you know, because this 12:22 is very, very important, especially with statistics the 12:25 way they are today, that 50% of our marriages are failing. 12:28 Well, I mean, something's going wrong out there. So, yes. 12:32 Well, I certainly agree with that; looking through spiritual 12:37 eyes, looking at the internal. Yes. What's the next step? 12:42 Okay, let's go to contrast #4. It says, Passion is promiscuous, 12:49 but love is pure. You look around in our world today and 12:55 you can see it is there. You see love respects God's seventh 13:01 commandment that says, Thou shalt not commit adultery. 13:05 So, when tempted with premarital sex, love says wait until we get 13:15 married. When tempted with extramarital sex, love also says 13:23 No, I am already married. So when we go back to scripture, 13:32 we need to look at the life of Joseph as a young man. 13:37 Remember, he was tempted by a beautiful and a powerful woman. 13:44 Day after day, scripture tells us, she plagued him until 13:51 eventually he said, Look, how can I do this great wickedness 13:55 and sin against God? And so he did not, even though he suffered 14:00 for it after. So that is what we need to say like Joseph, How can 14:04 I do such wickedness and sin against God? 14:08 Well, purity is so important in our lives and, I mean, but many 14:14 times whenever you're young you're not mature enough to 14:18 really differentiate between the two. You know, just the way 14:21 that we're are put together with all of the different 14:25 outside influences that we ex- perience today with TV, with all 14:29 the different ads and everything and peer pressure. 14:35 I saw something the other day that was absolutely fantastic. 14:39 The guy was 94 years old and somebody walked up to him and 14:43 said, What's the best thing about being 94 years old? 14:47 And the old man said, there's no peer pressure. I just thought 14:51 that was so neat. So that is one of the advantages of living to 14:57 be 94, because all your peers have disappeared. 15:00 Bless his little heart, you know, but that was great. 15:02 What's #5? 15:06 Okay. The fifth contrast, and this is crucial, not only 15:12 before marrying but after marrying. It says that lust is 15:18 self-centered while love is self-sacrificing. And that's 15:25 where the rubber hits the road. Lust asks the question all the 15:33 time: What do I want. What do I want. Lust's favorite question, 15:40 lust's favorite pronoun is "I". What do I want and usually I 15:47 want it now. Love has a differ- ent pronoun. Love says, What 15:53 do you want? Because love is putting what you want more above 16:02 what I want. 1 Corinthians 13:5 says, Love does not seek its 16:10 own. It is not self-centered. This is important because: 16:18 Why do marriages break up? Why do we fight and quarrel and 16:24 have this tug-of-war? We do this whether in marriage or even 16:31 outside of marriage because of self. The root of every marital 16:37 problem and dating is, regard- less of what we are fighting 16:42 over, the root of the problem is self-first, is what I want. So 16:49 the solution to almost every marital conflict is spouse 16:55 first, and that's the big difference between the genuine 16:59 and the counterfeit. The counterfeit is self-centered, 17:05 the genuine is other centered; just like Jesus was. 17:11 So, how do the parents teach the child to be subservient 17:18 to be giving? 17:22 Well, first of all by example. Because kids model what they see 17:26 in the lives of their parents. Somebody said that the great 17:31 problem is not juvenile delinquency; it's parental 17:34 delinquency. Because the kids are modeling what they see in 17:39 their homes. So as adults we need to model this self 17:44 sacrificing spirit in order that we may set an example for our 17:49 young people. 17:50 Yes, that just makes sense, you know. But that's easier said 17:53 than done. Number one you know, just because today it seems like 17:58 both parents are working and you know that's an issue right 18:02 there. What is your take on that? 18:05 I don't think that the big issue is if just one or two parents 18:10 that are working, but the crucial thing is are we spending 18:16 time together? Are we united in what we are doing in our 18:21 goals for ourselves and for our homes and for our families. You 18:25 can have one parent only working and still there is a lot of 18:29 conflict and problems in the home. So the principles of 18:34 family living need to be mastered in order that we can 18:39 model for our children and enjoy the family ourselves. 18:44 Yes. So I would assume that probably this has to be taught 18:49 some place because a lot of those cords need to be cut from 18:53 the previous generation. So I think that this is one reason 18:57 why it is so important that we have topics like this and 19:00 that we do bring this into the church, you know, because 19:04 there's lots of parents out there that their home might 19:07 have been dysfunctional and they don't like... because, 19:10 you know, it's monkey see, monkey do, they don't 19:13 particularly like their previous environment and so it has to be 19:17 changed some place. But I can certainly see, you know, exactly 19:21 what you're saying is that, you know, that lust is self-serving 19:25 and that love is self- sacrificing, and so that has 19:30 to be brought up and that is taught. Do you have another 19:34 word on that? 19:35 No, we can move on. Our time is running out 19:38 and we have two more points 19:39 Okay, the sixth contrast says passion operates by chance, love 19:47 by Divine design. In other words, the philosophy of passion 19:56 or lust is, Que sera sera. What ever will be will be. But love's 20:04 philosophy is not that. Love's philosophy says, God has a 20:08 plan for your life and so you need to ask Him to show you 20:13 that plan. And believe you me, that's what I did, for sure. I 20:17 did ask God to show me the plan that he has for my life, the one 20:22 to whom I should get married, what my job should be, etc, etc. 20:27 In the Bible, there is also an example of Isaac and Rebekah, 20:32 remember the story? Abraham wanted a wife for his son Isaac. 20:36 He sent his servant. His servant went to Haran, and before he did 20:43 anything else, he prayed and asked God to show him and God 20:47 did reveal to him and here Rebekah came forward. She 20:53 did what was necessary and, of course, they were married. 20:59 So we have Isaac and Rebekah. Jeremiah 29:11 endorses it. 21:06 It says, For I know the plans that I have for you. That was 21:12 God talking. So he knows the plans. Let's ask him to show 21:18 us those plans. 21:19 Okay, our final contrast is that lust comes from Satan and 21:25 love comes from God. That's the big difference. They have 21:31 two sources. Satan manifests this counterfeit and Satan has 21:37 used Hollywood as his workshop. So most of the movies that we 21:44 see all the soap operas that people look at hour after 21:48 hour with "the love stories. " That's not love. 21:51 Fall in love now, go to bed with this person, 21:55 break up, go start again; that's not love. 21:58 Satan has used Hollywood to multiply and to confuse the 22:05 concepts. Love does not come from Hollywood. Love comes 22:11 from heaven. 1 John 4:8, the text you read at the beginning, 22:15 God is love. So all true love whether it be boyfriend/ 22:21 girlfriend, husband/wife, who- ever, all true love comes from 22:26 God, and all true love is comfortable in the presence of 22:32 God. And that's the basic dif- ference between love and lust 22:38 Amen. So there are those seven contrasts. Would you like to 22:44 maybe go into one or more once again, like we should 22:52 start with the first one, lust is a changeable feeling, love 22:55 is an enduring principle. 22:57 Yes, and by the way, we should point out that what we are 23:01 presenting here is a mini ver- sion of the larger seminar. 23:07 The full seminar is twice this size and all of these seminars 23:14 ...this one is just one of dozens of seminars that are 23:20 available from HappyFamily Bible Seminars International. For 23:24 those who are listening, I want to repeat where they can be 23:29 accessed. Our web site is www. happyfamilybsi. com. 23:40 Our 800 number is 1-800-291-3060 23:46 There you can find dozens of them that are available, a few 23:52 can be downloaded and all the material can be accessed 23:58 So these seven points, first of all lust is anchored in feeling. 24:12 Love, yes, has feelings but it's a principle and that lasts 24:18 forever. Passion is blind, but love sees 24:21 and examines; that's the next one. 24:23 As Jesus said, You have eyes, look and see. The third one, 24:30 is on the externals. Lust is obsessed with just how the 24:37 person looks, the figure and the fashion and the 24:40 sex appeal, while love admires the externals, but it is more 24:45 concerned with the internals, who the person really is. 24:51 Lust is promiscuous, but love is pure. 24:55 That's so crucial really because in the world today promiscuity 25:01 is all around; not only with the young people, adults are no 25:07 better. So we need to recognize that this is not just for young 25:13 people, it is for everyone. Anything that is based in 25:18 promiscuity is not love regard- less of what we feel, it is 25:26 lust. Love is pure. Then lust is self-centered but love is 25:33 other-centered self-sacrificing. 25:35 Well I love the fact, you know, that you put the other person 25:40 then as a rule they reciprocate, you know and then 25:44 that brings balance into the relationship. You want the 25:47 very best. God has given us given all so many talents and 25:50 we want to encourage and sup- port our mate so that they will 25:54 utilize those talents. 25:55 Okay, lust operates by chance, but love by design, because God 26:03 has a plan for each life. 26:05 The last one is that lust comes from Satan, and love comes from 26:10 God. So that as we review this each listener needs to rate 26:16 themself on a scale of 1-10. Where am I. Is it really lust 26:22 or is it love that I have? If my score is low, how do I change 26:26 that score? I change that score by going to the source of love, 26:31 which is God and asking Him to give me that love and give my 26:35 spouse, give my fiancé that love so that we can have the real 26:39 thing and then our lives will be happy together. 26:42 Well it is obvious that has worked well in your family, 44 26:45 years and you can tell, you know, that you are very much 26:49 in love. As you look at each other you know that your eyes 26:52 just sparkle to this day. So that is absolutely fantastic. 26:56 Listen Gordon, I'd just like to end this program with a prayer. 27:00 I'd just like, if it's all right with you, that you will just go 27:04 to the Lord and we'll just share this time together. 27:08 Sure. Let's pray. Dear Lord, we're so thankful that you are 27:12 the source of love. We come to you with open hearts. Please 27:17 put your love in our hearts so that we can have happy families 27:21 here on earth in preparation for the family in heaven. We 27:24 thank you, in Jesus name. Amen 27:26 Amen, Amen. I just want to thank both of y'all for being here. 27:31 This is such a wonderful time. It is so wonderful to see people 27:34 that are in love, but not only can talk about it but can also 27:38 show it. I just want to thank each one of you that has tuned 27:42 in today for Issues and Answers and I just challenge each one of 27:46 you just to communicate better within your own family. 27:49 Thank you for watching. We love you and we look 27:52 forward to seeing you next time. God bless you and your family. |
Revised 2014-12-17