Welcome to Issues and Answers.
My name is J.D. Quinn. I just
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welcome each one of you with us
today. We are just thankful for
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this wonderful day
that God has created.
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We always like to start the pro-
gram out with a scripture, so
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I want to go to 1 John 4:8.
It says in the New King James
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Version, "He who does
not love does not know God,
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for God is love. " Today we've
got a topic that sometimes is
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confusing: How to differentiate
between true love and Satan's
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counterfeit, which is lust. We
have a couple here from Orlando,
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Florida who are going to intro-
duce us to how to differentiate
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between these two and this is
Gordon and Waveny Martin-Burl.
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They are from Orlando, Florida
and we welcome you to Issues
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and answers today. This is
going to be a fun time. Before
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we get started with our topic
thought, tell us a little bit
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about yourselves. Where
did you meet? When? What's
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going on in your life?
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Well, the young Gordon: We have
been married, Waveny and I, for
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more than 44 years.
That's right.. We are
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both from Guyana, South America.
We have enjoyed our lives
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together. We have three grown
children, Esther, Samuel and
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Joan. For more than 40 years
I have been in ministry as a
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minister of the Seventh-day
Adventist church. I have served
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in a variety of fields: Wales
as pastor, departmental director
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in administration at the
conference level, the union
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level and the division level.
But through it all there have
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been two passions for me. One
is family ministry and the other
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is evangelism and
those have stayed with me.
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This is my wife, Waveny. She
will tell you something more.
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about herself. When you said
"Waveny" I've never heard that
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name before. Wave nee. As we
we're talking earlier, she says
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the way to remember it is the
wave and, then of course, the
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knee. So that's the way I
have put it together. It's a
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wonderful name. I've
never heard it before, Waveny.
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So tell us
about yourself Waveny.
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Okay. I am Waveny and my pro-
fession is education. I'm an
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educator. Actually I have
taught in the different levels:
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That's preschool, elementary,
school, high school and then
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college which is now our
university. For the past 10
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years, however, I have worked
at the Interamerican Division
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as the first Women's Ministries
Director for that division.
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I also worked as director
for Family Ministry. So we have
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been working together
for the past 10 years.
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We have recently retired.
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Recently retired,
"retired" in quotes.
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Yes, yes. You're probably
busier now than ever before.
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I love your laugh. It
is absolutely fantastic.
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So now, I have looked at a
couple of your books and they
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they're absolutely fantastic.
You spent so many hours putting
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this all together. What brought
this love; now we're talking
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about family relationships
and, you know, the different
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aspects of it. How
did all that happen?
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Well, my interest in family
started as a pastor, counseling
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young people preparing for
marrying, and it dawned upon me
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that what we are giving to
these young people, everybody
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needs. So we got interested in
family ministry and then because
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of my love for evangelism, I
thought why not bring this into
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evangelism. We used to do
Family as a little nugget before
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the sermon. One day a young
pastor, Pastor Redver Stillbert
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of Grenada challenged
me. He said, Elder you
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are talking two times. why not
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talk one time? Why not put
these two things together and
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make one? I told him, that
can't be done. But within a few
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weeks the Lord showed me how
it could be done. Since then we
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have been developing. Today it
is perfected. It is being used
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in the various countries of the
world, in the Philippines, in
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countries in Europe, in
Latin America. We have just been
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requested to get permission
that some of this material be
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translated for China and Japan
to be used in those countries
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where it is difficult to start
with the gospel, but we can
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start with the family. You will
be happy to know that folk can
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access what we have on our web
site: www. happyfamilybsi. com
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and our toll free
number is 800-291-3060.
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Amen, Amen. Well let's get...
I know that there are seven
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steps that y'all have put
together. Is it love, is it
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the real thing or is it fake?
Is there a counterfeit and I am
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assuming that we've got love on
one hand and we have lust on the
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other. Why don't you take
us through these seven steps.
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Do you want to start?
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Yes, we'll be happy to do that.
The first contrast, contrast #1
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is that lust is a changeable
feeling while love is an
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enduring principle.
That's a big difference.
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You see, our feelings change.
This morning I wake up, I feel
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good, I kiss her. The more I
wake up, I feel bad, I kick her.
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And that is how many people
behave and that is because the
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relationship is based on
the counterfeit. The counterfeit
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deals with feelings only. Of
course, love has feelings, but
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love is more than a feeling.
Love is a principle and the
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principle does not change. In
1 Corinthians 13 it says: Love
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never fails, and that
is the first difference.
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All right, now we go to the
second contrast and that says
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"Passion is blind, but
love sees and examines. In Roman
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literature, J.D., the Romans had
many gods and the god of love
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was Cupid. Cupid was a little
boy with a bow and arrow, a
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blindfolded boy, bow and arrow,
going around shooting arrows at
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individuals. Anyone who was
shot, the first person that one
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person met, he fell in love with
that individual. Now, is that
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love? Of course not; that
can't be love. You see love sees
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and examines and that is
what is happening to many of our
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young people today. They say
well I love this individual and
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the parents say, well you know
this guy, John, is very lazy.
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Well, I don't see that. But then
afterwards they get married,
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then she realizes that he
is lazy and she cannot stand it
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and so they separate and they
divorce. But love sees, love
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examines. So we need
to take time to examine.
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Christ had a question for us:
He says, Having eyes do you not
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see? In other words, use those
eyes that you have to examine
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Then I would assume that it's
very important, as the kids of
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today's world are getting
married, that they do need to
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seek advice from their parents
and from, say, their pastor and
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their friends. Because,
you know, perhaps they can see
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something that they cannot
see. And, you know, I think that
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Mrs. White says that we need to
pray four times harder than we
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would ordinarily do before
we found that mate that we were
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thinking about spending our life
with. You know, the second most
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important decision that we will
every make is who we are going
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to spend our life with. Of
course, the first important
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decision that we make is
to serve Jesus Christ as our
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Savior. Yes.
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All right. The third contrast
between love and lust is that
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lust is obsessed with
the externals, while love is
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concerned is concerned with the
internal. Let's explain what we
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mean by these two terms. When
we speak of externals, we're
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talking of the figure,
the fashion, the sex appeal.
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And when we think of the
internals, we are talking of
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personality. We are taking
of habits. We are taking of
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character. We are talking of
what is really inside, who the
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person really is. This is
very important. Of course, love
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admires the externals.
That is how we get connected to
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somebody anyhow in the first
place. It's the externals. But
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love does not stop there. Love
moves from the external to the
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internal and it starts to
examine personality, character,
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the habits of the individual,
because those are the things
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that will keep the marriage
together as we face the future.
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If you remember when the prophet
Samuel was looking for the
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second king of Israel, he went
to the home of Jesse. Remember
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that story? Then he saw
the first son, Eliab, he said
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that's the king, you know. He
looked like a king; he had the
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bearing of the king. The Lord
said, No, no. He said, Man looks
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on the outer appearance,
but the Lord looks on the heart.
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That's found in 1 Samuel 16:7.
So the Lord took the youngest
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brother, the shepherd boy, who
didn't look like a king, but he
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had the heart of a king.
And what this point is saying is
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that like the Lord, we need
to move beyond the externals and
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look at the internal and see who
the person really is, because
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lust focuses only on
the externals; love is
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concerned with the internals.
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So I would assume that time
plays an important factor here.
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Maybe six months might not
cut it. Exactly, Exactly. When
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we're dating, you know, you
always show up, you smell good
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you look good, you know,
and you know, lots of times in
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relationships you don't see each
other but once every weekend
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but you need to spend some time,
maybe two years with lots of
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prayer, with lots of spiritual
advice, you know, because this
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is very, very important,
especially with statistics the
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way they are today, that 50%
of our marriages are failing.
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Well, I mean, something's
going wrong out there. So, yes.
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Well, I certainly agree with
that; looking through spiritual
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eyes, looking at the internal.
Yes. What's the next step?
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Okay, let's go to contrast #4.
It says, Passion is promiscuous,
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but love is pure. You look
around in our world today and
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you can see it is there. You
see love respects God's seventh
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commandment that says,
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
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So, when tempted with premarital
sex, love says wait until we get
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married. When tempted with
extramarital sex, love also says
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No, I am already married. So
when we go back to scripture,
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we need to look at the
life of Joseph as a young man.
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Remember, he was tempted by a
beautiful and a powerful woman.
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Day after day, scripture
tells us, she plagued him until
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eventually he said, Look, how
can I do this great wickedness
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and sin against God? And so he
did not, even though he suffered
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for it after. So that is what we
need to say like Joseph, How can
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I do such
wickedness and sin against God?
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Well, purity is so important in
our lives and, I mean, but many
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times whenever you're young
you're not mature enough to
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really differentiate between
the two. You know, just the way
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that we're are put together
with all of the different
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outside influences that we ex-
perience today with TV, with all
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the different ads and
everything and peer pressure.
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I saw something the other day
that was absolutely fantastic.
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The guy was 94 years old and
somebody walked up to him and
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said, What's the best
thing about being 94 years old?
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And the old man said, there's
no peer pressure. I just thought
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that was so neat. So that is one
of the advantages of living to
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be 94, because all
your peers have disappeared.
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Bless his little heart,
you know, but that was great.
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What's #5?
00:15:02.93\00:15:06.79
Okay. The fifth contrast,
and this is crucial, not only
00:15:06.82\00:15:11.97
before marrying but after
marrying. It says that lust is
00:15:12.00\00:15:18.85
self-centered while love is
self-sacrificing. And that's
00:15:18.88\00:15:25.66
where the rubber hits the road.
Lust asks the question all the
00:15:25.70\00:15:32.98
time: What do I want. What do I
want. Lust's favorite question,
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lust's favorite pronoun is "I".
What do I want and usually I
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want it now. Love has a differ-
ent pronoun. Love says, What
00:15:47.07\00:15:53.20
do you want? Because love is
putting what you want more above
00:15:53.23\00:16:02.67
what I want. 1 Corinthians 13:5
says, Love does not seek its
00:16:02.71\00:16:10.80
own. It is not self-centered.
This is important because:
00:16:10.84\00:16:18.20
Why do marriages break up?
Why do we fight and quarrel and
00:16:18.24\00:16:24.91
have this tug-of-war? We do
this whether in marriage or even
00:16:24.94\00:16:31.70
outside of marriage because of
self. The root of every marital
00:16:31.74\00:16:37.03
problem and dating is, regard-
less of what we are fighting
00:16:37.06\00:16:42.32
over, the root of the problem is
self-first, is what I want. So
00:16:42.35\00:16:49.39
the solution to almost
every marital conflict is spouse
00:16:49.42\00:16:54.97
first, and that's the big
difference between the genuine
00:16:55.01\00:16:59.67
and the counterfeit. The
counterfeit is self-centered,
00:16:59.70\00:17:05.49
the genuine is other
centered; just like Jesus was.
00:17:05.52\00:17:11.23
So, how do the parents teach
the child to be subservient
00:17:11.27\00:17:18.30
to be giving?
00:17:18.34\00:17:22.00
Well, first of all by example.
Because kids model what they see
00:17:22.03\00:17:26.81
in the lives of their parents.
Somebody said that the great
00:17:26.84\00:17:31.59
problem is not juvenile
delinquency; it's parental
00:17:31.62\00:17:34.32
delinquency. Because the kids
are modeling what they see in
00:17:34.35\00:17:39.29
their homes. So as adults
we need to model this self
00:17:39.32\00:17:44.17
sacrificing spirit in order that
we may set an example for our
00:17:44.20\00:17:48.97
young people.
00:17:49.01\00:17:50.69
Yes, that just makes sense,
you know. But that's easier said
00:17:50.72\00:17:53.70
than done. Number one you know,
just because today it seems like
00:17:53.73\00:17:57.98
both parents are working and
you know that's an issue right
00:17:58.02\00:18:02.23
there. What is
your take on that?
00:18:02.26\00:18:05.47
I don't think that the big issue
is if just one or two parents
00:18:05.50\00:18:10.30
that are working, but the
crucial thing is are we spending
00:18:10.34\00:18:16.07
time together? Are we united
in what we are doing in our
00:18:16.11\00:18:21.77
goals for ourselves and for our
homes and for our families. You
00:18:21.81\00:18:25.74
can have one parent only working
and still there is a lot of
00:18:25.77\00:18:29.66
conflict and problems in
the home. So the principles of
00:18:29.70\00:18:34.68
family living need to be
mastered in order that we can
00:18:34.71\00:18:39.53
model for our children and
enjoy the family ourselves.
00:18:39.56\00:18:44.85
Yes. So I would assume that
probably this has to be taught
00:18:44.88\00:18:49.02
some place because a lot of
those cords need to be cut from
00:18:49.05\00:18:53.34
the previous generation. So
I think that this is one reason
00:18:53.37\00:18:57.08
why it is so important that
we have topics like this and
00:18:57.12\00:19:00.41
that we do bring this into
the church, you know, because
00:19:00.45\00:19:04.35
there's lots of parents
out there that their home might
00:19:04.38\00:19:07.54
have been dysfunctional
and they don't like... because,
00:19:07.57\00:19:10.70
you know, it's monkey
see, monkey do, they don't
00:19:10.73\00:19:13.05
particularly like their previous
environment and so it has to be
00:19:13.08\00:19:17.36
changed some place. But I can
certainly see, you know, exactly
00:19:17.39\00:19:21.24
what you're saying is that, you
know, that lust is self-serving
00:19:21.28\00:19:25.09
and that love is self-
sacrificing, and so that has
00:19:25.13\00:19:29.98
to be brought up and that
is taught. Do you have another
00:19:30.02\00:19:34.53
word on that?
00:19:34.56\00:19:35.53
No, we can move on.
Our time is running out
00:19:35.54\00:19:38.83
and we have two more points
00:19:38.84\00:19:39.81
Okay, the sixth contrast says
passion operates by chance, love
00:19:39.82\00:19:47.53
by Divine design. In other
words, the philosophy of passion
00:19:47.56\00:19:56.15
or lust is, Que sera sera. What
ever will be will be. But love's
00:19:56.19\00:20:04.13
philosophy is not that. Love's
philosophy says, God has a
00:20:04.17\00:20:08.47
plan for your life and so
you need to ask Him to show you
00:20:08.51\00:20:13.03
that plan. And believe you me,
that's what I did, for sure. I
00:20:13.06\00:20:17.51
did ask God to show me the plan
that he has for my life, the one
00:20:17.55\00:20:22.12
to whom I should get married,
what my job should be, etc, etc.
00:20:22.15\00:20:27.11
In the Bible, there is also
an example of Isaac and Rebekah,
00:20:27.15\00:20:31.98
remember the story? Abraham
wanted a wife for his son Isaac.
00:20:32.02\00:20:36.78
He sent his servant. His servant
went to Haran, and before he did
00:20:36.82\00:20:43.38
anything else, he prayed and
asked God to show him and God
00:20:43.42\00:20:47.74
did reveal to him and
here Rebekah came forward. She
00:20:47.78\00:20:53.01
did what was necessary and,
of course, they were married.
00:20:53.04\00:20:59.17
So we have Isaac and Rebekah.
Jeremiah 29:11 endorses it.
00:20:59.21\00:21:06.06
It says, For I know the plans
that I have for you. That was
00:21:06.10\00:21:12.14
God talking. So he knows
the plans. Let's ask him to show
00:21:12.17\00:21:18.18
us those plans.
00:21:18.21\00:21:19.73
Okay, our final contrast is
that lust comes from Satan and
00:21:19.77\00:21:25.52
love comes from God. That's
the big difference. They have
00:21:25.55\00:21:31.60
two sources. Satan manifests
this counterfeit and Satan has
00:21:31.64\00:21:37.52
used Hollywood as his workshop.
So most of the movies that we
00:21:37.56\00:21:44.27
see all the soap operas
that people look at hour after
00:21:44.31\00:21:48.15
hour with "the love
stories. " That's not love.
00:21:48.19\00:21:51.68
Fall in love now, go
to bed with this person,
00:21:51.72\00:21:55.18
break up, go start
again; that's not love.
00:21:55.22\00:21:58.65
Satan has used Hollywood
to multiply and to confuse the
00:21:58.68\00:22:05.20
concepts. Love does not
come from Hollywood. Love comes
00:22:05.24\00:22:11.69
from heaven. 1 John 4:8, the
text you read at the beginning,
00:22:11.72\00:22:15.21
God is love. So all true
love whether it be boyfriend/
00:22:15.24\00:22:21.37
girlfriend, husband/wife, who-
ever, all true love comes from
00:22:21.41\00:22:26.33
God, and all true love is
comfortable in the presence of
00:22:26.36\00:22:32.90
God. And that's the basic dif-
ference between love and lust
00:22:32.93\00:22:38.90
Amen. So there are those seven
contrasts. Would you like to
00:22:38.93\00:22:44.87
maybe go into one or more
once again, like we should
00:22:44.90\00:22:52.59
start with the first one, lust
is a changeable feeling, love
00:22:52.62\00:22:55.56
is an enduring principle.
00:22:55.60\00:22:57.21
Yes, and by the way, we should
point out that what we are
00:22:57.24\00:23:01.58
presenting here is a mini
ver- sion of the larger seminar.
00:23:01.61\00:23:07.85
The full seminar is twice this
size and all of these seminars
00:23:07.89\00:23:14.09
...this one is just one of
dozens of seminars that are
00:23:14.13\00:23:19.97
available from HappyFamily Bible
Seminars International. For
00:23:20.01\00:23:24.66
those who are listening, I
want to repeat where they can be
00:23:24.70\00:23:29.32
accessed. Our web site
is www. happyfamilybsi. com.
00:23:29.35\00:23:40.38
Our 800 number is 1-800-291-3060
00:23:40.41\00:23:46.60
There you can find dozens of
them that are available, a few
00:23:46.64\00:23:52.41
can be downloaded and all
the material can be accessed
00:23:52.45\00:23:58.42
So these seven points, first of
all lust is anchored in feeling.
00:23:58.45\00:24:12.44
Love, yes, has feelings but
it's a principle and that lasts
00:24:12.47\00:24:18.79
forever. Passion is
blind, but love sees
00:24:18.83\00:24:21.64
and examines;
that's the next one.
00:24:21.67\00:24:23.64
As Jesus said, You have eyes,
look and see. The third one,
00:24:23.68\00:24:30.57
is on the externals. Lust
is obsessed with just how the
00:24:30.61\00:24:37.43
person looks, the
figure and the fashion and the
00:24:37.47\00:24:40.47
sex appeal, while love admires
the externals, but it is more
00:24:40.50\00:24:45.78
concerned with the internals,
who the person really is.
00:24:45.82\00:24:51.07
Lust is
promiscuous, but love is pure.
00:24:51.10\00:24:55.74
That's so crucial really because
in the world today promiscuity
00:24:55.78\00:25:01.67
is all around; not only with
the young people, adults are no
00:25:01.70\00:25:07.56
better. So we need to recognize
that this is not just for young
00:25:07.59\00:25:13.23
people, it is for everyone.
Anything that is based in
00:25:13.27\00:25:18.56
promiscuity is not love regard-
less of what we feel, it is
00:25:18.59\00:25:25.96
lust. Love is pure. Then lust
is self-centered but love is
00:25:26.00\00:25:33.33
other-centered self-sacrificing.
00:25:33.37\00:25:35.87
Well I love the fact, you know,
that you put the other person
00:25:35.91\00:25:40.48
then as a rule they
reciprocate, you know and then
00:25:40.51\00:25:43.95
that brings balance into
the relationship. You want the
00:25:44.04\00:25:47.38
very best. God has given us
given all so many talents and
00:25:47.41\00:25:50.75
we want to encourage and sup-
port our mate so that they will
00:25:50.78\00:25:54.08
utilize those talents.
00:25:54.12\00:25:55.36
Okay, lust operates by chance,
but love by design, because God
00:25:55.39\00:26:03.68
has a plan for each life.
00:26:03.71\00:26:05.79
The last one is that lust comes
from Satan, and love comes from
00:26:05.83\00:26:09.98
God. So that as we review
this each listener needs to rate
00:26:10.02\00:26:16.31
themself on a scale of 1-10.
Where am I. Is it really lust
00:26:16.35\00:26:22.60
or is it love that I have? If
my score is low, how do I change
00:26:22.64\00:26:26.73
that score? I change that score
by going to the source of love,
00:26:26.77\00:26:31.32
which is God and asking Him
to give me that love and give my
00:26:31.36\00:26:35.52
spouse, give my fiancé that love
so that we can have the real
00:26:35.55\00:26:39.68
thing and then our
lives will be happy together.
00:26:39.71\00:26:42.46
Well it is obvious that has
worked well in your family, 44
00:26:42.49\00:26:45.59
years and you can tell, you
know, that you are very much
00:26:45.62\00:26:49.23
in love. As you look at each
other you know that your eyes
00:26:49.26\00:26:52.69
just sparkle to this day. So
that is absolutely fantastic.
00:26:52.73\00:26:56.09
Listen Gordon, I'd just like to
end this program with a prayer.
00:26:56.13\00:27:00.08
I'd just like, if it's all right
with you, that you will just go
00:27:00.11\00:27:04.03
to the Lord and we'll
just share this time together.
00:27:04.07\00:27:08.01
Sure. Let's pray. Dear Lord,
we're so thankful that you are
00:27:08.05\00:27:12.72
the source of love. We come
to you with open hearts. Please
00:27:12.76\00:27:17.01
put your love in our hearts so
that we can have happy families
00:27:17.05\00:27:20.99
here on earth in preparation
for the family in heaven. We
00:27:21.03\00:27:24.94
thank you, in Jesus name. Amen
00:27:24.98\00:27:26.89
Amen, Amen. I just want to thank
both of y'all for being here.
00:27:26.92\00:27:31.19
This is such a wonderful time.
It is so wonderful to see people
00:27:31.22\00:27:34.89
that are in love, but not only
can talk about it but can also
00:27:34.92\00:27:38.95
show it. I just want to thank
each one of you that has tuned
00:27:38.98\00:27:42.52
in today for Issues and Answers
and I just challenge each one of
00:27:42.55\00:27:46.05
you just to communicate
better within your own family.
00:27:46.08\00:27:49.50
Thank you for watching.
We love you and we look
00:27:49.53\00:27:52.06
forward to seeing you next time.
God bless you and your family.
00:27:52.10\00:27:57.46