Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome again to
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Issues and Answers. We're
so glad that you've joined
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us today and we have with us a
very fascinating and intriguing
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woman. I really appreciate
her. Let me just go ahead and
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introduce you to our
special guest. I'm referring to
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Ethel Nelson. Ethel, thank you
so much for coming back again.
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Thank you. Now you are a
pathologist who has spent 40
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years studying the Chinese
characters of the ancient
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language. Sounds
like I didn't do any
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medicine doesn't it?
I'll tell you what. When I'm
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thinking of the work that you've
done, I think of Acts 17:26
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where the Bible says, let
me just read this. It says: He
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(God) made from one blood all
nations of men to settle on the
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face of the earth. We had Ethel
with us before and we went into
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a lot of technical details
showing some of these Chinese
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characters of the ancient
writings and the time lines.
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I thought it would be good just
to have Ethel come back and just
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talk to us because you really
do have a treasure of knowledge.
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Let's back up for our guests who
did not see the program that you
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were here for before and tell
them how you became interested
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in the ancient writings of the
Chinese. Well it was purely by,
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I think, providence. My husband
and I, he's also a physician,
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he's a surgeon, spent 20 years
in Bangkok, Thailand in our
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mission hospital there. One day
when I had a little time on my
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hands I went to one of our book
cases and I was looking at the
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different books and I noticed
this one book with no title on
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the spine. I thought, well
what's that? I pulled it out and
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it said Genesis and the Chinese,
and I thought, ah, no connection
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Where did I get this book? Well
I think my husband was given it
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when he went down to Singapore
and he just stuck it in the book
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case because he didn't have any
interest in it. But I am a very
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curious person. I like to look
at things, so I opened the book
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and I started looking at it and
I thought, you know, maybe there
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is something here. This book was
written by C. H. Cong, a pastor,
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from China. What he was doing
was he was finding different
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Bible truths in the Chinese
writing. Well this fascinated me
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and that's what
started everything.
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Now you have co-authored seven
books, a lot on this topic,
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right with others. Who was
the gentleman? Was his name Wong
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who you became involved with?
Samuel Wong. For about the last
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10 years we've worked together.
Should I tell just a little bit
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about his history? Please. Well
he was a graduate student in
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China and this was before the
democracy movement and he was
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taking a class in English
literature and one of his
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professors at the close
of every class would put up a
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Chinese character and explain
it in a different way than
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Samuel had ever heard it
explained before and this
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made Samuel very curious so he
went up to the professor after
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the class and he said where
did you get this information?
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The professor showed him one of
my books and Samuel noticed my
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name I guess at that time and
sort of stuck it in his head.
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But very soon after that the
democracy movement came along
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and Samuel was one of the
leaders in that movement and as
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a result he could no longer
study anymore in China. That was
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one of the penalties you
might say of taking part in the
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movement. So in time he left
China and one day he phoned me
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up because we had a
mutual friend, a Chinese friend,
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because Samuel was looking
for someone to work with him on
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writing a book. Now Samuel is
quite a scholar. He loves books
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and in reading the ancient
writings he found things that
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sounded so much like the Bible.
He says, you know, I want to
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write a book to compare the
ancient Chinese writings with
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the Bible. He says, since you're
interested in the Chinese would
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you work with me on that. So I
said, Sure, I'd love to. That's
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how we became acquainted.
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So you all have written some
books together. Your particular
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interest is in the characters,
the hieroglyphics, of the
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ancient Chinese writing. How
I first came to know Ethel is I
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saw her on 3ABN and to me it
was the most fascinating thing
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because what you showed is in
the hieroglyphics of the ancient
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writings of the Chinese people
you find the whole gospel.
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Actually we talked about this
last program. We find in their
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writings the history that lines
up the Chinese chronology with
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the Hebrew chronology and we
see that the ancient writings
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of the Chinese people they
believed in the God of heaven.
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They believed in the great flood
They had all of these things
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even. We looked last time at
their history of how they went
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through the dispersion and at
the time of the Tower of Babel
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their languages were confused.
But now what I want to talk to
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you specifically about is
you have a new book out called
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The Quest for the Holy Mountain.
This is one you wrote as a
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single author. Where did you get
this title and what does this
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mean? Well as I've
studied the Chinese
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writing, the mountain symbol
keeps coming up. Now it's not
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just one symbol for mountain.
Maybe I should go back and
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explain something else and that
is somewhat of the structure of
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Chinese writing. You know in
our writing we have our A, B, Cs
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which are the foundational,
fundamental units, 26 of them.
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Well, the Chinese have the
traditional writing which is
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older than the simplified which
is used in main land China, but
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in the traditional they
have 214 radicals which take the
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place of our A, B, Cs.
They are the foundational units.
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It's a very pictorial language.
They have that combination of
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these things that paint a
picture with every character.
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Now I should mention that there
have been modifications of the
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writing through the years
because the writing goes back
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about 4000 years. In main land
China they have simplified the
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writing further but
the traditional has been in
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existence for about 2000 years
with the strokes and this sort
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of little square units.
But before that the writing is
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called a bronze ware because
this was etched on the inner
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lips of bronze ceremonial
vessels and it's very different.
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It's pictographic. But before
that there is more ancient
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writing called the oracle bone
writing and this was inscribed
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either on tortoise shells
or on bones, on flat bones, and
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it's called oracle which
is divination because they
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used it you might... today we
might say well to tell a fortune
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No. These people that used
it were believers in God and my
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understanding is that they would
write, if they had a problem,
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all the possible solutions
to that problem we'll say on a
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shell, a tortoise shell.
Then the shell would be heated
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intensely until it cracked and
then wherever the crack pointed
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that was the solution.
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Fascinating! Can you think of
anything in the Bible that might
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compare with this?
The Urim and the Thummim.
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Right. You remember that
the high priest had these onyx
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stones on either shoulder
and a question would be asked.
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If it was yes the onyx stone on
the right would shine. If it was
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no the left shoulder would
shine. So you see it's very
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comparable to what the Chinese
were using, their so called
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oracle bones for. So
now let me get back to this.
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because this is why you believe
they are sacred writings.
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Does that make them one of
the oldest languages recorded?
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I think absolutely. In fact,
I have found what I think is
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perhaps the first reference to
the oracle bone writing and the
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date that I have been able to
give it is 2222 B.C. So that's
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only 25 years after the
dispersion. You see, of course,
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at the time of the dispersion
they all had new languages and
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no doubt the writing was
invented about that time.
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Now talking about invention;
what is the basis of the writing
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the Chinese writing. I think
this is really interesting.
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Now, my co-authors and I have
been of course talking about the
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radicals which are the A, B, C's
that are the simplest forms of
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the writing, the pictograms,
and these were combined to form
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larger characters with diverse
meanings. But what are the basic
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radicals? It's the garden of
Eden story. We've gone through
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all the radicals and we
find that about 80% of them are
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related to the garden of Eden
story. Now some of the radicals
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will combine, two very simple
radicals will combine perhaps
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of maybe even three to form
another radical. But in so doing
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they are telling the
garden of Eden story.
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And you've even found that in
these as you trace this on down
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it tells the story of Jesus.
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Well actually we find the story
of Jesus more in the writings
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because anciently for 2000 years
there was reference to a coming
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holy man who was coming from
the west and many of the ancient
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sages wrote about a coming holy
man. So we find the reference to
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Jesus more not in the
characters but in the writings.
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In the writings, okay. Now we
looked at the characters in the
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last program and it depicts
the flood. We talked about the
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chronology of the Hebrew
children and the chronology of
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the Chinese people and how
they went through the dispersion
00:13:09.83\00:13:13.70
about that same time between the
flood and 101 years later when
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the tower of Babel was built.
But now I'm coming back to your
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title for your book, Quest for
the Holy Mountain. What is this
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quest? Why did you
title this book this?
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The reason I brought up about
the radicals is because there
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are so many of these simplest
basic units of the writing that
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are the mountain. Why was the
mountain so important? I found
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that about I guess about 20 of
the radicals are depicting the
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mountain in many different ways.
And of course being pictographic
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they are little pictures so
it gives you an idea of what the
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shape of mountain might be. So
this is something that I pursued
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I guess for many years. I've
thought about it; what did that
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mountain look like. And of
course early on I had no idea
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that it was representing the
garden of Eden. Not until a long
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time later did it all begin
to fit together and I see that
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this holy mountain is really
the garden of Eden itself.
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Is that a new idea to you?
00:14:31.45\00:14:34.00
No, when you think about this
and particularly when we think
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about how at the end of
time the garden of Eden is
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essentially when God creates new
heavens and new earth it's all
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going to be restored. You know
it's so fascinating to me, Ethel
00:14:47.80\00:14:53.20
that as you spent so much time
in this study how you have found
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that the Chinese who now worship
multiple gods were in fact
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monotheistic and they believed
in the one God. They told the
00:15:05.48\00:15:10.60
story of the garden of Eden.
What is the premise of your book
00:15:10.63\00:15:16.81
Well, actually I'm trying to put
together what has gone through
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my mind through the years and
can I finally find out what this
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holy mountain is. Well look
at the scriptures how many times
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in the scriptures there's
reference to the holy mountain.
00:15:32.75\00:15:36.50
The holy mountain is really
very important throughout the
00:15:36.54\00:15:40.25
scriptures. What important
events took place on holy
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mountains? Oh boy!.
Well we can start with
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Abraham and Isaac.
Right that's a good place to
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start. That's
an incredible story
00:15:52.74\00:15:54.47
because it really was a
depiction of what God, Jehovah
00:15:54.51\00:15:58.94
Jairah was going to do when he
was going to give his own Son.
00:15:58.97\00:16:05.90
What mountain was that? Mount
Moriah. Now Mount Moriah has
00:16:05.94\00:16:12.80
the history of David going there
and buying this area to build an
00:16:12.84\00:16:24.63
altar. And eventually do
you remember what mountain this
00:16:24.67\00:16:30.41
becomes? Mount Zion. Mount Zion
okay. So you see the mountain
00:16:30.45\00:16:39.39
is so central to the Hebrew
story and so the mountain also
00:16:39.43\00:16:48.34
is very central
to the Chinese story.
00:16:48.38\00:16:50.92
Now let me ask you a question
because I remember the first
00:16:50.96\00:16:55.38
time you were on 3ABN. Did
not the ancient radicals, the
00:16:55.42\00:16:59.77
characters that are like their
A, B, C's, did that not mention
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something about a lamb?
00:17:03.61\00:17:05.60
Oh yes. You know when I just
said that Christ wasn't so much
00:17:05.64\00:17:09.85
in the characters, I should have
mentioned that he is pictured as
00:17:09.89\00:17:15.39
the lamb. And to me the most
beautiful Chinese character is
00:17:15.42\00:17:21.85
the character for righteousness
which is the lamb over me.
00:17:21.89\00:17:28.28
Isn't that
incredible. I remember that.
00:17:28.32\00:17:31.30
You remember that? Yes.
Actually and me or I is composed
00:17:31.34\00:17:36.20
of two other radicals. It's a
weapon and a hand, and the hand
00:17:36.23\00:17:43.03
holds the weapon and that is
I or me. So I am the one that
00:17:43.07\00:17:49.07
takes the life of the lamb.
But the lamb covers me and gives
00:17:49.10\00:17:55.07
me righteousness.
Isn't that beautiful?
00:17:55.11\00:17:57.36
That's incredible So
that's not the only use of
00:17:57.40\00:18:02.50
the lamb. The lamb is used many
times to depict other features
00:18:02.53\00:18:07.46
really of the coming holy man.
And I should have mentioned that
00:18:07.49\00:18:12.38
previously. Ethel
for 40 years you have
00:18:12.41\00:18:18.18
studied these characters. What
has it done to your faith as you
00:18:18.21\00:18:23.33
have seen that the most ancient
of the sacred writings perfectly
00:18:23.37\00:18:28.45
line up with what
the Bible has to say?
00:18:28.49\00:18:31.95
Well it can't help but increase
my faith in the Holy Scriptures.
00:18:31.99\00:18:39.64
It's so remarkable that here
you have... The Chinese preceded
00:18:39.68\00:18:47.44
the Hebrews by about 700 years
and then the Hebrews came along
00:18:47.48\00:18:56.08
and God led them for almost
2000 about 2000 years until they
00:18:56.11\00:19:03.86
disappointed the Lord and you
might say their probation was
00:19:03.90\00:19:10.45
closed as a people. As a nation.
But it's interesting that the
00:19:10.48\00:19:17.26
Chinese also were believers
in the true God for about 2000
00:19:17.29\00:19:22.81
years. So here you have the
Chinese and the Hebrews both
00:19:22.84\00:19:28.28
believing firmly in the heavenly
ruler, in God, for about 2000
00:19:28.32\00:19:35.20
years. And you
know, to me it's like
00:19:35.24\00:19:37.68
saying we know that the time
of Moses, he wasn't there...
00:19:37.71\00:19:42.69
I mean man wasn't created until
the sixth day, so the whole
00:19:42.72\00:19:48.23
story of creation had to
come to Moses by revelation and
00:19:48.26\00:19:53.70
inspiration. God revealed it to
him. He had him write the first
00:19:53.73\00:19:57.91
five books of the Bible telling
all of this and sometimes people
00:19:57.95\00:20:02.18
will say, Well how can you trust
that Moses wrote down really
00:20:02.22\00:20:06.96
the words of God. But what we
see is it actually mirrored what
00:20:07.00\00:20:11.99
God had to tell the Chinese,
the Chinese oracles, and as they
00:20:12.03\00:20:16.79
recorded. So they believe in one
God. God shared with them and
00:20:16.83\00:20:21.38
inspired them. It's almost like
you could say their scriptures
00:20:21.42\00:20:25.94
which line up with our
scriptures, the same story,
00:20:25.97\00:20:29.62
and I think
that's so fascinating.
00:20:29.65\00:20:31.28
Well, I think that it certainly
substantiates Genesis and from
00:20:31.32\00:20:40.97
and entirely different
source. You know there was no
00:20:41.01\00:20:43.85
communication what so ever
between the Hebrews and the
00:20:43.88\00:20:46.66
Chinese. Besides that, as I have
mentioned, the Chinese preceded
00:20:46.69\00:20:51.75
the Hebrews by about 700 years.
But yet they have the same story
00:20:51.79\00:20:56.82
and to me that just adds
credence to the whole Bible.
00:20:56.85\00:21:03.51
I heard the story of a
missionary to Africa who came
00:21:03.55\00:21:10.13
upon a group of people who
had never seen anyone outside of
00:21:10.17\00:21:15.63
their village and their little
group of people who had in their
00:21:15.66\00:21:21.09
very rudimentary form of
communication and writing the
00:21:21.12\00:21:27.25
same story of creation and they
knew that there was one God and
00:21:27.29\00:21:32.03
his son. So to me we just
see again and again that God did
00:21:32.06\00:21:37.60
reveal himself to man.
00:21:37.63\00:21:39.00
I think as you look over
the whole world you'll find that
00:21:39.03\00:21:44.09
almost every group of people
have some fragment at least of
00:21:44.13\00:21:49.12
the ancient story of the flood
or creation, the garden of Eden,
00:21:49.16\00:21:55.10
different aspects of this story
that Moses brought in a written
00:21:55.13\00:22:01.03
form for us. What
a fascinating study,
00:22:01.07\00:22:04.85
because so many times too
people say to me, You think as
00:22:04.88\00:22:11.90
a Christian you've got the only
right religion, but look at the
00:22:11.94\00:22:15.36
great number of people in China.
How do you know that the nation
00:22:15.40\00:22:18.47
of China isn't right, that there
are multiple gods or there is
00:22:18.51\00:22:23.94
no god. Yet the root of their
spiritual relationship began
00:22:23.97\00:22:28.62
looking to the God who created
the heavens and the earth.
00:22:28.65\00:22:33.22
So just because what's happening
in the United States where we
00:22:33.26\00:22:38.43
see people who are now embracing
many different types of
00:22:38.46\00:22:42.76
religions and gods and New Age
and all of this it doesn't mean
00:22:42.80\00:22:47.10
that the ones who are holding
to the holy writings of old are
00:22:47.13\00:22:51.47
wrong. It just means that people
began to go in other directions.
00:22:51.50\00:22:56.79
Another interesting thing with
the Chinese, you hear of Taoism
00:22:56.82\00:23:04.03
well actually that comes from
the word Dao and as I've looked
00:23:04.06\00:23:11.24
into it, especially the
character, that actually is the
00:23:11.27\00:23:17.13
Trinity, the Godhead, the three
persons. You find the three
00:23:17.16\00:23:22.46
expressed in many different
ways. It's the Dao and this was
00:23:22.50\00:23:27.76
the great god of
the Chinese, Dao.
00:23:27.80\00:23:41.48
I think about this and
I'm wondering; you've had an
00:23:41.52\00:23:46.67
illustrious career as a
pathologist married to a
00:23:46.70\00:23:50.69
surgeon, a missionary
in Thailand for 20 years.
00:23:50.73\00:23:54.65
You've done a great work for the
Lord right there. But God gave
00:23:54.68\00:23:59.08
you such an interest in research
He piqued your curiosity with
00:23:59.11\00:24:03.99
this book. Would you say in your
mind that the 40 years that you
00:24:04.02\00:24:08.09
have spent studying this... I
don't know how much recognition
00:24:08.12\00:24:11.76
your work has gotten yet, but
I believe that God's going to
00:24:11.79\00:24:15.65
get this into the hands of the
right people. I wish that every
00:24:15.68\00:24:19.51
person in China could read
this. I know there's becoming an
00:24:19.54\00:24:23.32
interest isn't there in China.
They're looking back more to
00:24:23.36\00:24:27.67
their historical writings. God
could use this. I've always said
00:24:27.71\00:24:31.99
China is that last frontier.
If we could bring down the wall.
00:24:32.02\00:24:37.76
You know Matthew 24:14. I
think of that verse many times
00:24:37.80\00:24:41.42
Matthew 24:14 Jesus said that
the gospel of this kingdom will
00:24:41.45\00:24:45.77
go to the whole world, then the
end will come. Well now we've
00:24:45.80\00:24:49.69
got the opportunity. Even as
you and I speak, I don't know if
00:24:49.72\00:24:53.98
you know this, Ethel, but as you
and I speak this will be going
00:24:54.02\00:24:58.25
into China through 3ABN,
one of our 10 satellites and I'm
00:24:58.28\00:25:03.78
praying that this will pique the
curiosity of someone and many
00:25:03.82\00:25:08.51
people there who will get this
book, read it, and God could
00:25:08.55\00:25:14.94
start a whole revival in China
just simply through this work.
00:25:14.98\00:25:20.34
So my question to you, I know
you've spent untold hours in
00:25:20.38\00:25:25.67
research on this, would this by
in your estimation the greatest
00:25:25.71\00:25:31.26
thing that
you've ever worked on?
00:25:31.29\00:25:32.66
Oh, by all means. You know, I
know that some people may call
00:25:32.70\00:25:40.22
into question the veracity
of this. I'll make an admission.
00:25:40.25\00:25:47.15
I do not speak Chinese. I read
some of the characters because
00:25:47.19\00:25:52.83
I've studied them. But you know
some people say well you know
00:25:52.87\00:25:57.77
unless you can read and speak
Chinese you're not a scholar in
00:25:57.81\00:26:02.67
this area. But I think
that there's a different type of
00:26:02.71\00:26:08.40
study that one can do. It's
more of an archeological study.
00:26:08.43\00:26:16.18
It's a visual study simply
of putting things together and
00:26:16.21\00:26:23.12
certainly to me there's no
question but what the early
00:26:23.16\00:26:29.99
Chinese were firm believers in
God and they wanted to preserve
00:26:30.03\00:26:36.25
all of this information about
the garden of Eden. I think it
00:26:36.28\00:26:41.98
was God inspired. They probably
had no idea that this would be
00:26:42.02\00:26:47.92
lost, this idea would be lost
for so long. But there it is and
00:26:47.96\00:26:53.38
if the Chinese can pick it
up and study it and say you know
00:26:53.41\00:26:58.43
there is something to this after
all. I've often thought well
00:26:58.47\00:27:03.84
why have not the Chinese them
selves come up with this but I
00:27:03.87\00:27:09.21
think it's probably
unfortunately because the gospel
00:27:09.25\00:27:14.25
has not gotten to the Chinese.
They don't know the story.
00:27:14.28\00:27:18.53
Oh I know, but won't it be
exciting when they hear the
00:27:18.57\00:27:21.89
gospel and then they go
back and look at their ancient
00:27:21.92\00:27:24.96
writings and find out the
ancient writings support the
00:27:24.99\00:27:27.96
gospel. We're out of time. Thank
you, Ethel, so much for coming
00:27:27.99\00:27:31.39
and sharing. Well
thank you for having me.
00:27:31.43\00:27:33.81
Well it's been our joy. And
for those of you at home, I hope
00:27:33.84\00:27:37.36
this has piqued your curiosity
and given you increased faith
00:27:37.39\00:27:40.87
in just knowing how God
has shown himself to all men.
00:27:40.91\00:27:45.03
May the grace of our Lord Jesus
Christ, the love of the Father
00:27:45.06\00:27:48.63
and the fellowship of the
Holy Spirit be with you and your
00:27:48.67\00:27:52.21
family today and
throughout eternity.
00:27:52.24\00:27:57.64