Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome again to
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Issues and Answers.
I'm so excited that you've
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joined us today because we
have an exciting program. Let me
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begin with a scripture. It's
from Acts 14, I'm going to start
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in the B part of verse 15 and go
through 17. And the Bible says:
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The living God which made heaven
and earth and the sea and all
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the things that are therein,
who in times past suffered all
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nations to walk in their own
ways, nevertheless he did not
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leave himself without witness.
We are going to be talking today
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about the ancient writings
of the Chinese nation and we're
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going to see that in
these ancient writings God left
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himself a witness. Here to
join us as our special guest is
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Ethel Nelson. Ethel I just am
so excited that you are back at
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3ABN. You know I first met
you at ASI and when you sat down
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I knew who you were. I'm
not sure you knew who I was, but
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I remembered seeing you a couple
of years ago in the interview
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that Danny Shelton had done
and you were talking about the
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hieroglyphics of the ancient
Chinese language and in these
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you were showing that they
depicted the story of Jesus.
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It was so fascinating to me and
I loved it. But let's let our
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audience get to know you a
little bit. You're a pathologist
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by trade. Retired
for some time now, yes
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I am. But you were educated as a
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pathologist. Yes. You married
the love of your life Roger.
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A surgeon. A surgeon and have
three children. But now there's
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something about you
that you love research.
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Well as a pathologist I kept
running into very interesting
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things and I've written a number
of research papers even though
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I was a missionary in Thailand
at the time. Because it seems
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like in Thailand we had so
much more pathology and more
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interesting pathology than
in America. Roger and I were
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missionaries there.
How long were you there?
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Twenty years.
Twenty years in Thailand.
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So here you are as a 7th-day
Adventist missionary in Thailand
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for 20 years, you loved to
research, God's put that inside
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of you and how on earth then
did God translate that to the
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hobby of researching the ancient
writings of the Chinese people?
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Well I really think it was
all in God's providence, but one
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day I was looking for something
to read and we have lots of
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books and a lot of them I
haven't read and I happened to
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look in our book case and I saw
this one book with no title on
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the spine. So I pulled it
out and it said Genesis and the
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Chinese and I immediately said
oh there's no connection there.
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but I'm a very curious person
so I opened it up and I started
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reading and it wasn't
long before I was intensely
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interested and you might say
hooked to find out more about it
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So you had spent now 30 years
studying the ancient language of
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the Chinese. Well
actually more like 40 years
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which really dates me.
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Well but we're the beneficiary
of this. I know you have written
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a number of
books, I think seven.
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Well, that's with
others. I have coauthors, yes.
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Okay and now your latest book
is Quest for the Holy Mountain
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and that's what we're going
to be talking about today is how
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the Chinese language, the
hieroglyphics, the ancient
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writings of the Chinese, how
each one of these symbols was
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a picture and pictorially it
tells the story of the Bible.
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Now what's fascinating to me
and we won't be doing this in
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this program about the story of
Jesus, but there is evidence in
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the ancient
writings of the great flood.
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Oh yes. There is a Chinese
legend and this is all written
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up by the Chinese themselves.
There was a person by the name
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Nu-wa who was really a hero
of the great worldwide flood.
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Now, of course, Nu-wa
sounds like Noah doesn't it but
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according to some of the Chinese
they said well that was a woman.
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But I'm sure that Nu-wa was a
man. There's further description
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of this flood. It said waters
inundated without being stopped.
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Now it doesn't say where the
source of the waters was so I
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think it was both from
below and rain. And then another
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interesting statement was
that fires flamed without being
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extinguished, which
would certainly suggest intense
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volcanic activity. So we have in
their legends about the flood.
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Okay. So Nu-wa was their
great hero of this flood and the
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actual symbols show the picture
of the flood. Why don't we look
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at one of those. In
fact, I'd like to start with
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a verse. I have this on
a graphic and this is from
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Genesis 7:19.
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So, of course, we see that the
flood the waters rose up so high
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that nothing was visible of the
earth at all. They just rose up
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to heaven. And there's a very
nice character that fits this
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exactly. I'll show you another
graphic and notice that the
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contemporary character circled
in red and we're going to look
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at one on the right which shows
the character meaning beginning
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or of old and you see some wavy
lines here. Now let's look over
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to the left hand side and we'll
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see what those wavy lines are.
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They actually are waves I think.
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and it means disaster. All right
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then below it we see the
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representation of the sun. Now
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if we put the disaster rising up
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to the sun that means beginning
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or of old. Now certainly the
flood occurred in olden times
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and there had to be a new
beginning, not only of the whole
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earth but specifically of Noah's
family and I think Noah's family
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began right after the flood.
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So you see those waves coming
right up underneath the sun
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there and showing that
everything was all covered.
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Yes. Maybe I should say
something about these ancient
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writings, which are pictograms.
These are the most ancient form
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of the characters. It's the
oracle bone writing and I'll
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later on and
tell more about that.
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So when now when we have these
ancient writings, they've shown
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now the great flood. How
about the Tower of Babel.
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You know in all the writings,
and I've read a lot of the
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ancient writings of the Chinese
which miraculously have survived
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for about 4000 years. There's
no mention at all of the Tower
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of Babel, but you can see the
effects from the Tower of Babel.
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Now let's look at a graphic
about the Tower of Babel from
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the Bible. We read:
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And the Chinese underwent this
scattering, but before we come
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to that point I want to really
date the time of the dispersion.
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All right, let's
look at that then.
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So I have another graphic. This
time this is from Genesis 11:
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You'll notice that the date of
flood is given as 2348 B.C. and
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we find that two years
after the flood Shem had a son
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Arphaxad. When Arphaxad was 35
he had Salah. When Salah was 30
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he had Eber and when Eber was
34 he has a baby named Peleg.
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Now I want to stop at that
point and talk about adding up
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those figures and it come out to
101 years. So if we subtract 101
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years from the time of the
flood in 2348 it comes out to
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2247 B.C. as the time
of the Tower of Babel.
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is this
significant for the Chinese?
00:10:23.32\00:10:25.63
Oh yes. But let's talk about
Peleg first. Why did they call
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this baby Peleg? You know in
Hebrew names have meanings and
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the name of Peleg means division
and what division had just
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happened before that baby was
born. I think it must have been
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the great division of all
the peoples of that time into
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language groups because the
Bible very clearly tells us that
00:10:49.19\00:10:54.44
they divided by tongue. So I
think that this gives credence
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to the date 2247 B.C. as
the time of the dispersion.
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So this Chinese chronology
though fits with this?
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Yes it does. Now the Chinese
have so called ancient rulers.
00:11:09.42\00:11:19.19
There are five of them and the
fourth and fifth we are going to
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discuss first. We want to
go back to another graphic that
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talks about Yao and Shun. These
are the fourth and fifth rulers.
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and the one that is going to
talk about it is Menchis. He was
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a very wise sage, also a
believer in the true God, but
00:11:49.80\00:11:56.13
he lived just shortly, well,
around 200 B.C. and he made
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this statement. From Yao
and Shun down to Dong, the first
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emperor of the second dynasty
the Shong were 500 years and
00:12:07.21\00:12:11.47
more. Now you may say, that's
not interesting at all, but
00:12:11.51\00:12:16.23
really it is very interesting.
Now on this graphic we have a
00:12:16.26\00:12:21.39
time line and you'll notice
first of all that there's 101
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years between the flood and
00:12:26.54\00:12:29.82
Tower of Babel. Now also I've
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put into this time line the
00:12:33.19\00:12:35.82
first Chinese Dynasty which was
00:12:35.85\00:12:38.41
in 2205 B.C. Now
first of all let's point out
00:12:38.45\00:12:42.00
that 101 years is the same
amount of time that we just
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looked at on the last graphic.
That's right. All right.
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All right then the dating of the
Shong Dynasty is from 1766 B.C.
00:12:47.92\00:12:55.84
and if we go back 500 years from
that time we'll found that Yao
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and Shun, their lifetimes
fall into this 101-year period
00:13:03.80\00:13:09.08
between the flood and the Tower
of Babel and, of course, Menchis
00:13:09.12\00:13:14.34
said 500 years and more. So it
wasn't exactly 500 years so it
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could be any time
within this 101-year period.
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And during the time of Yao and
Shun, if I'm following you, what
00:13:24.35\00:13:29.28
you're saying, Ethel, is that
there was no dispersion in their
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language at that time.
They had a common language.
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For 101 years they had a common
language, yes, and it wasn't
00:13:36.78\00:13:41.42
until the Tower of Babel
incident that their language was
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confused and that made them
disperse all over the world.
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And so this, I believe, was also
the time of the dispersion of
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the Chinese. Isn't
that amazing. You know it
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reminds me of so many times when
archeologists and scientists are
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saying that King David can't
be found. There's no evidence of
00:14:01.98\00:14:07.05
King David or there's no
evidence of Cyrus and then here
00:14:07.09\00:14:12.55
comes an archeological find that
supports, or is evidence to, all
00:14:12.59\00:14:18.61
the facts of the Bible. So the
history of the Chinese people
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that was captured in
their writing is what got you
00:14:23.21\00:14:26.80
who were so interested in
seeing these pictures, but now
00:14:26.84\00:14:30.36
you can go back and look at the
history itself and see that even
00:14:30.39\00:14:34.88
though they don't have a
character to talk about the
00:14:34.92\00:14:38.14
Tower of Babel, their history
shows they had that common
00:14:38.17\00:14:41.32
language from the flood for 101
years till the incident of the
00:14:41.35\00:14:45.02
Tower of Babel and
then they were dispersed.
00:14:45.06\00:14:47.12
All right now you may say well
who is Yao for example. We've
00:14:47.16\00:14:53.34
just said that he was the fourth
of these legendary rulers but
00:14:53.38\00:14:59.53
can we find out a little
bit more about him. You know I
00:14:59.56\00:15:02.43
looked up in the concordance, in
Young's Concordance, under Noah
00:15:02.46\00:15:07.15
because I wanted to know
what his name meant in Hebrew.
00:15:07.19\00:15:12.25
It means rest but I also found
out something very interesting
00:15:12.29\00:15:16.09
and they say that the Chinese
believe that Yao was Noah.
00:15:16.12\00:15:20.33
Well I don't think so and let
me tell you who I think Yao was.
00:15:20.37\00:15:25.62
Let's put up a graphic and
on this graphic we have the
00:15:25.66\00:15:40.68
contemporary writing of the
name of Yao but it's interesting
00:15:40.72\00:15:46.78
that the Chinese names also have
meanings and Yao's name means
00:15:46.82\00:15:54.83
High or Eminent. So I though
well, who was Yao. We know from
00:15:54.86\00:16:00.79
the history of the Chinese that
Yao was a very God-fearing man.
00:16:00.82\00:16:07.31
He believe in the creator God.
So who was his father. Could it
00:16:07.35\00:16:12.57
have been Shem? Because Shem
was the most godly probably of
00:16:12.60\00:16:17.78
Noah's sons. So I thought
wow I'm going to look up the
00:16:17.82\00:16:24.78
names of Shem's sons that are
listed, all right, and I come
00:16:24.82\00:16:29.97
down to the name of Aram and
you know what it means? It means
00:16:30.00\00:16:36.31
high or exalted. Now Yao's name
means high or eminent, Aram,
00:16:36.35\00:16:42.63
high or exalted. Could
they be one and the same person?
00:16:42.66\00:16:49.02
So the name of Yao and the name
of Aram are identical, almost
00:16:49.06\00:16:53.67
identical, and you're thinking
they're one and the same.
00:16:53.71\00:16:59.65
Now in the chronology of the
Bible Aram is the last listed
00:16:59.69\00:17:04.38
son of Shem. Does that make
him the oldest or the youngest?
00:17:04.42\00:17:09.10
Well I think that he is the
oldest but as we look at it now
00:17:09.13\00:17:12.63
we would say well he must
be the youngest because he is
00:17:12.66\00:17:16.08
listed last. But if you look at
the lists of others like Noah's
00:17:16.12\00:17:21.44
sons Shem, Ham and Japheth.
Japheth was the oldest and
00:17:21.47\00:17:26.08
he was listed last and last
mentioned on the list but he was
00:17:26.12\00:17:30.68
the first born. But
why do you think that Yao
00:17:30.71\00:17:36.33
and Aram are the same?
00:17:36.37\00:17:39.21
Let's look at the history of the
storm and when Noah's family was
00:17:39.25\00:17:45.28
in the ark. For five months the
storm was furious but then the
00:17:45.31\00:17:51.31
Bible says that in the fifth
month the ark rested in the
00:17:51.35\00:17:55.58
mountains of Ararat. But
when did they get off the ark?
00:17:55.62\00:17:59.79
It wasn't until they'd been
there a whole year. Seven months
00:17:59.82\00:18:04.32
passed by. So in my mind I think
well when the family got off the
00:18:04.35\00:18:11.93
ark I think all the ladies were
about seven months pregnant.
00:18:11.96\00:18:17.87
Now that would make Aram or Yao
born about three months after
00:18:17.90\00:18:23.08
getting off the ark and so we
can know about when he was born.
00:18:23.11\00:18:28.25
Around 2348 or 2347 B.C.
00:18:28.28\00:18:33.27
All right if I'm understanding
you correctly what you're saying
00:18:33.31\00:18:36.81
is that Aram of the Bible,
Shem's oldest son was called
00:18:36.85\00:18:42.30
Yao in Chinese and their
names mean the same and you're
00:18:42.33\00:18:47.71
believing that this ruler, Yao,
who served after the great flood
00:18:47.75\00:18:54.93
that is depicted in the Chinese
language, I think that's so
00:18:54.97\00:18:58.14
fascinating. Because here we've
got scientists trying to say it
00:18:58.17\00:19:01.74
didn't really happen
and in these most ancient
00:19:01.78\00:19:05.31
hieroglyphics, this holy
language of the Chinese shows
00:19:05.35\00:19:09.26
that there was this great flood.
But this Yao, this ruler, who
00:19:09.29\00:19:13.13
ruled for approximately 101
years or lived during that time
00:19:13.17\00:19:16.63
period I should say, before the
Tower of Babel, you believe this
00:19:16.66\00:19:24.62
was Aram. Yes. Now as I've just
said I think that Yao or Aram
00:19:24.65\00:19:33.09
was born maybe three months
after the flood, after they got
00:19:33.13\00:19:42.90
off the ark. We have information
from the Book of History
00:19:42.93\00:19:52.21
regarding Aram's or Yao's reign.
He reigned for 70 years and we
00:19:52.24\00:19:59.81
also have a date which is very
good. And that date is 2255 B.C.
00:19:59.84\00:20:07.37
Now I think we have
a graphic on this one.
00:20:07.41\00:20:09.57
We have a graphic. And that is
the time when he gave over his
00:20:09.60\00:20:17.68
rulership to Shun. But for
30 years preceding that Shun
00:20:17.72\00:20:24.74
had been a co-ruler. Now what
we can do then is take this 2255
00:20:24.78\00:20:31.24
from the date of his birth and
we can find out how old Yao was
00:20:31.28\00:20:36.88
when he began to be the ruler
of the Chinese. He was about 23
00:20:36.92\00:20:41.49
years old. You see how nicely it
fits. One other thing while we
00:20:41.53\00:20:45.46
are looking at this graphic I
want to point out is you'll see
00:20:45.49\00:20:49.39
the line here, 2247, of
the dispersion and so Yao's
00:20:49.42\00:20:59.67
rulership then ended about eight
years before the dispersion so
00:20:59.71\00:21:04.51
at the time of the dispersion
then Shun was, you might say,
00:21:04.55\00:21:09.24
the leader of the migration
of the Chinese. All right, now
00:21:09.27\00:21:15.53
let's talk a little bit more
about Shun. He was 30 years old
00:21:15.57\00:21:21.01
when he was selected to become
the co-ruler and he becomes a
00:21:21.05\00:21:27.99
very important person after they
migrate to China. Now was there
00:21:28.02\00:21:34.93
any mention at all of a
migration in the writings, in
00:21:34.96\00:21:39.53
the ancient writings. No, not a
word. How do we know that there
00:21:39.57\00:21:43.50
was a migration. Well there's
something very interesting...
00:21:43.53\00:21:49.03
Oh I might say one other thing
and that is that the ancient
00:21:49.07\00:21:55.49
history of the Chinese. There
was a ruler many years later
00:21:55.53\00:22:02.89
who destroyed all of the
writings of the ancient sages
00:22:02.93\00:22:10.15
But later on these were
recovered from various places.
00:22:10.19\00:22:15.33
Whereas the Book of
History originally had about 100
00:22:15.37\00:22:20.45
chapters, it ended up with 28
chapters. So may be some of that
00:22:20.48\00:22:24.91
lost material talked about a
migration. But there's one other
00:22:24.95\00:22:29.98
way that we can figure that was
a migration and that is that one
00:22:30.02\00:22:35.01
of the assignments of Yao.
The old ruler who also evidently
00:22:35.05\00:22:40.56
made the trip to China was given
the assignment of figuring out
00:22:40.59\00:22:46.15
climate; what was the climate
like? What was the winter like?
00:22:46.19\00:22:51.71
What was the fall like? What was
summer, spring and so on. Now in
00:22:52.72\00:22:55.76
meantime while he was
calculating on that Shun himself
00:22:55.80\00:23:00.57
was making a big trip and this
was probably, I would guess,
00:23:00.61\00:23:05.82
maybe a year after they had made
their migration there. He made a
00:23:05.85\00:23:11.60
trip to outline what would
become the Middle Kingdom, the
00:23:11.63\00:23:19.02
original China. Now we have a
graphic for that also where we
00:23:19.05\00:23:25.67
show Shun making the trip. Now
you notice on this graphic there
00:23:25.70\00:23:32.28
are five mountains. There's
a middle one, Mt. Song, and
00:23:32.31\00:23:36.47
evidently it was in this
neighborhood where the original
00:23:36.50\00:23:43.21
civilization of the Chinese
grew But Shun went first east to
00:23:43.25\00:23:49.32
Mt. Tai and there he set up the
so-called border sacrifice where
00:23:49.35\00:23:55.39
annually a bull was sacrificed
by the emperors each year to
00:23:55.43\00:24:04.05
Shongdi, their
god, the heavenly ruler.
00:24:04.08\00:24:07.14
So that would set up with like
the day of atonement, the annual
00:24:07.18\00:24:13.24
Well there was a sacrifice.
Then from Mt. Tai he went south
00:24:13.27\00:24:19.73
to the most southern mountain,
Mt. Heng, west to Mt. Hwa, north
00:24:19.76\00:24:25.42
to another Mt. Heng and then
back down. So you see he really
00:24:25.45\00:24:31.07
outlined what would
become the middle kingdom.
00:24:31.11\00:24:35.40
Okay, so he made this tour
of these four great mountains to
00:24:35.43\00:24:41.12
outline this middle kingdom, but
what was really accomplished and
00:24:41.16\00:24:44.83
did God play a
role in this in any way?
00:24:44.87\00:24:48.05
Well there are two statements in
the Shu Jing which is the Book
00:24:48.08\00:24:52.77
of History which are very
interesting. One of them says
00:24:52.80\00:24:55.10
of History which are very
interesting. One of them says,
00:24:55.13\00:24:57.39
and I have a graphic...
00:24:57.43\00:25:05.11
So this middle kingdom that
had just been formed here had
00:25:05.15\00:25:12.38
boundaries. Boundaries were
these four holy mountains and in
00:25:12.41\00:25:18.40
the middle, the middle kingdom
was divided into 12 states.
00:25:18.44\00:25:23.43
So was this about the
time of the dispersion when the
00:25:23.46\00:25:28.42
languages became confused?
00:25:28.46\00:25:30.47
Well yes. This came shortly
they had migrated there and they
00:25:30.51\00:25:40.64
were setting up their
kingdom at that time but it's
00:25:40.68\00:25:43.37
interesting that God played a
role. So on this other graphic
00:25:43.41\00:25:48.98
we have this...
00:25:49.02\00:26:01.37
Now the former kings are Yao
and Shun. See how specific this
00:26:01.40\00:26:06.47
is and this is from the
Chinese Book of History.
00:26:06.50\00:26:09.44
I think what you're saying,
Ethel, and what I'm taking away
00:26:09.48\00:26:13.33
from this program is that
the chronology of the Hebrew
00:26:13.37\00:26:18.76
children and the chronology
of the Chinese perfectly line up
00:26:18.79\00:26:23.87
and in the writings, the Chinese
ancient writings, perfectly
00:26:23.90\00:26:28.70
support the story of the Bible.
That's true. That's what our
00:26:28.74\00:26:32.84
take away is today. Yes. You
know, I know that for so many of
00:26:32.87\00:26:36.66
you this has been a little bit
technical and I'm going to ask
00:26:36.70\00:26:40.44
you to come back because we
want to just sit without all of
00:26:40.47\00:26:44.14
these graphics and sit and talk
with you, Ethel, to get a little
00:26:44.17\00:26:47.16
bit more deeply into this
teaching, but what we've been
00:26:47.19\00:26:51.40
talking about today is outlined
in your book Quest for the Holy
00:26:51.43\00:26:56.61
Mountain, right. And what I
hope our viewers and those who
00:26:56.65\00:27:01.75
are listening to this program
are taking away is the fact that
00:27:01.79\00:27:05.87
the ancient, the precious,
sacred writings of the ancient
00:27:05.90\00:27:10.82
Chinese perfectly
support the Bible story.
00:27:10.86\00:27:14.37
That's exactly true. I am
so excited that you've been
00:27:14.40\00:27:19.04
doing all of this research for
40 years and you know I'm sorry
00:27:19.08\00:27:23.23
that I didn't get the
opportunity to read the book
00:27:23.26\00:27:24.87
before you came on, but I
am really looking forward to
00:27:24.90\00:27:26.97
reading this book. Will you come
back and just spend some more
00:27:27.01\00:27:30.67
time with us
talking? I'd love to.
00:27:30.71\00:27:32.11
All right. I'd love that too.
For those of you at home I hope
00:27:32.14\00:27:36.37
that this is just a faith
booster to you as it is to me.
00:27:36.40\00:27:39.73
When I first heard Ethel on 3ABN
and how she showed all of these
00:27:39.77\00:27:43.96
Chinese characters and how they
told the story of Jesus, I knew
00:27:43.99\00:27:48.15
that we can trust every word
of the Bible. Now I pray that
00:27:48.18\00:27:53.32
the Lord will multiply his
mercy, love and grace to you.
00:27:53.36\00:27:58.46