Hello, I'm J. D. Quinn
with Issues and Answers.
00:00:30.20\00:00:33.27
Welcome to our program today.
00:00:33.30\00:00:35.20
Today we're talking about
00:00:35.24\00:00:37.07
marriage and the family. I have
00:00:37.11\00:00:39.80
some special guests with me
today that I know that you're
00:00:39.84\00:00:42.92
going to enjoy. I always like
to start off with a scripture.
00:00:42.95\00:00:46.98
Today's scripture is taken from
Proverbs 22:6 and I'm sure that
00:00:47.01\00:00:50.71
most of you know this. Train a
child in the way that he should
00:00:50.75\00:00:54.42
go and when he is old
he will not depart from it.
00:00:54.45\00:00:58.99
What a wonderful promise that
is. My special guests: Welcome
00:00:59.03\00:01:04.93
to 3ABN, welcome to Issues and
and Answers. These are Pastors
00:01:04.97\00:01:09.60
Mike and Gayle Tucker from
Arlington, Texas, right in the
00:01:09.63\00:01:13.71
midst of the Metroplex,
the future home of the Dallas
00:01:13.75\00:01:17.76
Cowboys and the Texas Rangers.
So anyway, we're glad you're
00:01:17.80\00:01:22.20
here. Share something
about yourselves with us.
00:01:22.23\00:01:26.45
We have been married for 31
00:01:26.48\00:01:28.79
years and we have two adult
00:01:28.82\00:01:30.77
daughters who are just the joy
00:01:30.81\00:01:32.50
of our lives and now we have a
00:01:32.53\00:01:34.19
son-in-law as well. All three of
them are involved in church work
00:01:34.23\00:01:40.21
and we're just thankful for
that. They love the Lord Jesus.
00:01:40.24\00:01:43.20
Of course we have pastored
together in Arlington for the
00:01:43.23\00:01:46.47
last 14-1/2 years and thoroughly
enjoy that and for the last
00:01:46.50\00:01:49.58
several years I've been involved
with Faith for Today as the
00:01:49.61\00:01:53.01
speaker/director. So that's
kind of a little bit about us.
00:01:53.05\00:01:56.74
And you're the senior pastor.
You're the associate pastor.
00:01:56.78\00:02:00.70
I am, and I enjoy being
able to be there and to minister
00:02:00.73\00:02:04.58
together. It's just been a great
gift really that God just put in
00:02:04.62\00:02:08.36
our laps and so
we enjoy it a lot.
00:02:08.39\00:02:10.57
Yeah, I was reading your
story and it's just absolutely a
00:02:10.61\00:02:14.37
miracle. In 25 words or less
growing up you knew that you
00:02:14.40\00:02:18.09
wanted to be a pastor but then
time came when you thought well
00:02:18.13\00:02:21.74
I don't know if I
really want to work that hard.
00:02:21.77\00:02:23.91
That's right. Yeah, I was
struggling with this. I didn't
00:02:23.95\00:02:27.74
want to be a pastor even though
I knew I was called for it.
00:02:27.78\00:02:31.66
So I compromised with God. I
became an academy Bible teacher.
00:02:31.70\00:02:35.66
That's pretty close you know. So
as I was doing that I came home
00:02:35.70\00:02:39.63
one day and opened the mail
box and there was a ministerial
00:02:39.66\00:02:41.91
license. The conference gave it
to me. Then a couple years later
00:02:41.95\00:02:45.72
they told me, oh by the
way, we're going to ordain you.
00:02:45.75\00:02:48.69
I was still teaching and had
never pastored a church and it
00:02:48.73\00:02:51.40
was like God had just said, no
you're not getting away from me
00:02:51.43\00:02:54.07
buddy. Then I tried to
leave denominational employment
00:02:54.10\00:02:57.95
as I went into business with my
dad and the conference asked me
00:02:57.99\00:03:01.22
to just for six weeks take this
little church over here, it was
00:03:01.26\00:03:04.46
130 members, 200 members,
something like that, just
00:03:04.49\00:03:07.50
interim pastor for six
weeks until we find a permanent
00:03:07.53\00:03:10.47
replacement. I was there for
7-1/2 years. From that time on
00:03:10.51\00:03:15.27
I've been hooked on pastoral
ministry. I dearly love pastoral
00:03:15.31\00:03:19.55
ministry. So the Lord just
wouldn't let me go, he wouldn't
00:03:19.59\00:03:23.80
let me go. It's
just unbelievable. I mean
00:03:23.83\00:03:29.44
he had this plan before the
foundation of time and you were
00:03:29.48\00:03:32.91
trying to do it your way but he
wasn't going to let you get away
00:03:32.95\00:03:36.32
It's amazing how often he wins.
Thank goodness. It's a good
00:03:36.35\00:03:40.31
thing. It is a good thing.
00:03:40.34\00:03:41.54
Now I know that besides
having your church you're both
00:03:41.58\00:03:45.88
counselors. Okay, I know that
you're a licensed counselor.
00:03:45.91\00:03:50.78
I know that you talk about
marriage and the family, too.
00:03:50.82\00:03:55.66
You guide people. But
how about your own family?
00:03:55.69\00:04:00.33
I mean, do you have
warts in your own family?
00:04:00.37\00:04:04.94
Of course we do. We're about as
human as anybody else. We have
00:04:04.98\00:04:08.72
warts in our relationship and
if you were to ask my children
00:04:08.75\00:04:11.97
privately they will tell you
that although they think we were
00:04:12.00\00:04:15.02
pretty good parents, they'll
know that we weren't perfect
00:04:15.05\00:04:17.89
either. They could probably
share with you a few of the
00:04:17.93\00:04:21.07
mistakes that we've made along
the way. But our joy is that
00:04:21.11\00:04:24.93
our children still like us
and they love the Lord greatly.
00:04:24.97\00:04:28.58
They have such admiration
and respect for their mother.
00:04:28.62\00:04:33.02
These girls call her regularly
whether they're cooking or
00:04:33.06\00:04:37.36
teaching or no matter what
it is they call mom for advice.
00:04:37.40\00:04:42.05
And their dad too. Yes,
from time to time yes they do.
00:04:42.08\00:04:46.66
I think the thing with parenting
is that when you each day, every
00:04:46.70\00:04:51.40
day, spend time with the Lord
00:04:51.43\00:04:53.23
and try to do the very best that
00:04:53.26\00:04:55.09
you can that day and what you
00:04:55.13\00:04:56.63
think the Lord wants you to do
00:04:56.66\00:04:58.09
with those children then in the
end what they will remember will
00:04:58.13\00:05:03.58
be mainly the good things. Their
life will be in accordance with
00:05:03.62\00:05:09.04
what God's will was and they're
not going to remember the
00:05:09.07\00:05:11.66
foibles along the way as much
as they remember that they had a
00:05:11.70\00:05:14.59
good home that was
founded on the Lord.
00:05:14.62\00:05:16.63
Yeah, the thing that I remember
so often and I guess everybody
00:05:16.67\00:05:19.59
does it, you know, but we were
poor growing up but we didn't
00:05:19.63\00:05:22.52
know it. You know there's
something special about that
00:05:22.55\00:05:26.42
kids are adaptable. Yeah
they are. As long as they
00:05:26.45\00:05:30.25
are happy and they feel secure,
they know that they are loved,
00:05:30.29\00:05:33.69
there's a purpose and a
direction to your life as a
00:05:33.72\00:05:36.04
family children are happy
whether they've got a lot or a
00:05:36.08\00:05:39.96
little. To know that they are
loved and valued, to know that
00:05:40.00\00:05:43.07
mom and dad love each other.
That's one of the things that
00:05:43.10\00:05:45.79
Gayle and I really focused
on was making sure that our
00:05:45.83\00:05:48.45
commitment stayed strong and
that we had time for each other
00:05:48.49\00:05:51.80
when our children were small.
You know, kids are kids. From
00:05:51.84\00:05:54.88
time to time our kids would try
to play one against the other.
00:05:54.92\00:05:57.93
They'd figure that one was
a little softer touch than the
00:05:57.96\00:06:01.04
other. But Gayle and I worked as
a team and so we always had an
00:06:01.08\00:06:04.10
agreement that whenever
the children would ask us for
00:06:04.13\00:06:06.48
something, especially if it
was somewhat suspect, we would
00:06:06.52\00:06:09.45
always ask the question, have
you asked your mother, or she
00:06:09.48\00:06:12.32
would ask have you asked your
father? So the children would
00:06:12.36\00:06:15.06
come to me, Daddy, can we do
such and... Have you asked your
00:06:15.10\00:06:18.15
mother. Daddy, you're the head
of the household, you've make
00:06:18.19\00:06:21.59
this decision. I'd say, ah ha,
you've asked your mother haven't
00:06:21.62\00:06:24.91
you? Daddy, you always ask that.
I'd say yes I do and there's a
00:06:24.95\00:06:27.77
reason for that. One day you're
going to grow up and leave me
00:06:27.80\00:06:30.31
and I'm going to spend the rest
of my life with that woman and
00:06:30.35\00:06:34.24
I'm not going to make her mad
now. So we're a team, we work
00:06:34.28\00:06:37.49
together as a team and the
children in the long run I think
00:06:37.53\00:06:40.71
valued that. Absolutely.
00:06:40.74\00:06:42.36
I think what's important
is monkey see, monkey do.
00:06:42.40\00:06:46.09
Yeah, that's true. They will
raise their children the same
00:06:46.13\00:06:48.40
way. Exactly, so
you know you are the
00:06:48.43\00:06:49.94
role models and it's very
important because whenever they
00:06:49.98\00:06:53.18
get their back backed into a
corner they're going to come out
00:06:53.22\00:06:56.39
and do what mommy and daddy did.
00:06:56.42\00:06:57.70
Yes that's right. Yes
whether they realize it or
00:06:57.74\00:07:00.13
not often you say to yourself,
man, I hear my mother's voice
00:07:00.17\00:07:04.11
coming out of my mouth or my
father's voice. Things that you
00:07:04.14\00:07:08.01
thought, I'll never do that, but
you do it because it's ingrained
00:07:08.05\00:07:11.77
and so we need to be aware of
that when we're parenting that
00:07:11.80\00:07:16.15
we are passing on things
to our children and to our
00:07:16.18\00:07:19.16
grandchildren. Our
children both are teachers
00:07:19.19\00:07:22.34
and they will tell us, they say
every now and then I hear myself
00:07:22.38\00:07:27.39
saying something that mom
would say. I hear myself saying
00:07:27.42\00:07:30.94
something that dad would say.
They will giggle about it but
00:07:30.97\00:07:34.21
then they say, you know it's not
all that bad because these are
00:07:34.24\00:07:37.45
good things and things that
we've learned as we grew up.
00:07:37.48\00:07:39.93
First of all, y'all been married
31 years and both look younger
00:07:39.97\00:07:44.05
than that. Aren't you nice.
00:07:44.08\00:07:45.34
We're going to
hang around here a lot.
00:07:45.38\00:07:47.08
She was 12 when I married her.
00:07:47.11\00:07:48.42
I'll bet that's right
and I would believe that.
00:07:48.46\00:07:51.70
So you're children
are probably 20 or 25?
00:07:51.73\00:07:59.33
They're 24 and 26. And our son-
in-law is right between them.
00:07:59.37\00:08:05.06
He's a Christian teacher as well
so we're really thrilled with
00:08:05.10\00:08:09.75
our family. But you know we have
learned some things along the
00:08:09.78\00:08:14.39
way; some things that we think
are valuable when it comes to
00:08:14.42\00:08:19.00
raising children. The
first thing that I learned about
00:08:19.03\00:08:21.57
parenting is that it's the most
guilt-producing thing I've ever
00:08:21.61\00:08:24.49
done in my life. I've never done
anything that made me feel any
00:08:24.53\00:08:27.38
guiltier than raising kids
because no matter what I did, I
00:08:27.41\00:08:30.61
always knew that I could have
done better. There was always
00:08:30.64\00:08:33.98
that sickening feeling inside
and whenever I blew it with the
00:08:34.02\00:08:37.60
kids, man, you know I owe them
better than that. I owe the Lord
00:08:37.64\00:08:41.19
better than that. But even
though the guilt was there, now
00:08:41.22\00:08:45.17
that I'm at this point in life
and I see my children and the
00:08:45.20\00:08:48.96
beautiful young women that they
are, I know that God had his
00:08:49.00\00:08:52.81
hand on us and in spite of
my short-comings God was able to
00:08:52.85\00:08:57.15
take my best efforts and turn it
into pure gold in the lives of
00:08:57.19\00:09:01.75
those young women because they
are just a joy to us, a joy to
00:09:01.79\00:09:06.14
the Lord and a joy to us.
We thank God for that. So it is
00:09:06.17\00:09:10.49
guilt-producing but...
It is. But when we look back
00:09:10.52\00:09:13.97
and we try to form some
principles that would help
00:09:14.00\00:09:17.38
people along the way I think
probably the biggest thing is
00:09:17.42\00:09:21.53
to do the hard work when they're
young. Do the hard work when
00:09:21.57\00:09:25.97
they're a year old, 18 months,
two years old and it is hard
00:09:26.01\00:09:30.38
work. I think we get very
00:09:30.41\00:09:32.71
exhausted with it. You know,
00:09:32.75\00:09:35.07
they say that mothers get tired
00:09:35.11\00:09:37.05
the day their children are born
00:09:37.08\00:09:38.95
and they don't get over it until
they leave the house. And it's
00:09:38.99\00:09:44.23
really true. I've been tired
ever since and I think because
00:09:44.26\00:09:48.88
it is exhausting, we tend to
kind of take the easy way out
00:09:48.91\00:09:53.50
sometimes. But children
especially in those toddler
00:09:53.53\00:09:58.00
years are focused on getting
their own way because that's
00:09:58.04\00:10:01.69
born in us, it's ingrained in
us and so they're trying to get
00:10:01.72\00:10:06.55
their way and often we will give
up. You know, they'll outlast us
00:10:06.58\00:10:10.67
with their tantrum or whatever
it happens to be and we'll just
00:10:10.71\00:10:15.02
give in and that's the worst
thing we could every do. We have
00:10:15.06\00:10:19.78
got to stay with it and make
sure that if they're throwing a
00:10:19.82\00:10:24.51
tantrum that that never
gets for them what they wanted.
00:10:24.54\00:10:29.05
They never succeed with
that. You have to stay with it.
00:10:29.08\00:10:33.52
You have to not let them outlast
you. Because if you do that hard
00:10:33.56\00:10:39.19
work and day to day to day
just make sure that you are the
00:10:39.22\00:10:44.13
parent, that you give them the
guidelines, that you say no when
00:10:44.17\00:10:49.06
you need to say no and say yes
as often as you can, as often
00:10:49.10\00:10:54.13
as you possibly can. Then they
will grow into a childhood that
00:10:54.17\00:10:58.95
you can enjoy from then on. Do
the hard work when they're under
00:10:58.98\00:11:03.21
two or under three years old and
then you'll enjoy the rest of
00:11:03.24\00:11:06.86
their childhood. But I'll tell
you what, if you don't do that
00:11:06.89\00:11:10.35
hard work when they're little
and you take the easy way out,
00:11:10.38\00:11:13.98
you will have a hard time their
entire childhood and their teen
00:11:14.02\00:11:18.11
years you'll just be so sorry
that you didn't do it earlier.
00:11:18.14\00:11:24.20
I had a young mom in my office
last week and she said, I'm so
00:11:24.24\00:11:29.66
determined that I want to
help my baby, who is just a few
00:11:29.69\00:11:35.04
months old right now. She said,
I want her to grow to be a woman
00:11:35.08\00:11:40.10
of God and how am I going to
know how to help her make the
00:11:40.13\00:11:44.47
decisions that she needs to make
in her life. And she said, I
00:11:44.51\00:11:48.01
know maybe it sounds silly
to ask this question now because
00:11:48.04\00:11:51.47
she's not grown. I said, no this
is the time to ask that question
00:11:51.51\00:11:55.48
this is the time to have a plan
and know that you're going to
00:11:55.51\00:11:58.85
guide her and that you're
not going to get exhausted, that
00:11:58.88\00:12:02.75
you're going to always do that
hard work while she's little.
00:12:02.78\00:12:06.80
Then one of the best ways to
make sure that they will be able
00:12:06.84\00:12:11.32
to make good decisions when
they're older is to give them as
00:12:11.36\00:12:15.01
many choices as you possibly
can all the way through their
00:12:15.04\00:12:19.47
growing up years. When they're
real little you don't say to a
00:12:19.51\00:12:23.37
child, do you want to have a
sandwich now, if you want them
00:12:23.41\00:12:27.21
to eat. What you say is do you
want your sandwich to have a lid
00:12:27.24\00:12:31.33
or no lid? So they get to make a
choice. We all want control and
00:12:31.36\00:12:35.04
children want control. So they
have got control right there.
00:12:35.08\00:12:38.20
They can decide, does my
sandwich have a lid or not have
00:12:38.24\00:12:41.60
a lid. And they learn to make
those decisions. A little bit
00:12:41.64\00:12:44.69
older it's do you want to wear
the green outfit or the blue
00:12:44.73\00:12:47.75
one. Do you want to go to
Chuck E Cheese or Pizza Hut?
00:12:47.78\00:12:53.99
You know, whatever it happens
to be. As they're growing you
00:12:54.03\00:12:57.81
give them as many choices as
possible but those choices are
00:12:57.84\00:13:01.32
always within the parameters
that you have set up. You know
00:13:01.35\00:13:04.76
that either choice they make is
going to be okay. Then the older
00:13:04.80\00:13:09.36
they get the more you broaden
those boundaries until finally
00:13:09.39\00:13:13.54
you're not making the choices
at all, they are making them.
00:13:13.58\00:13:17.11
But they've learned by making
choices. Sometimes, you know,
00:13:17.14\00:13:19.98
I wish I hadn't chosen that,
I wish I would have chosen the
00:13:20.02\00:13:23.49
other one. You let them make
some mistakes as they go, but
00:13:23.53\00:13:26.86
you keep that protective
boundary around them until the
00:13:26.89\00:13:30.74
point when they're grown and
you remove that and they learn
00:13:30.78\00:13:34.60
because they've
always made choices.
00:13:34.63\00:13:36.94
That's right. They find the
habit of making choices so that
00:13:36.98\00:13:40.05
making choices is not something
new to them. If you prescribe
00:13:40.08\00:13:43.53
every decision, every choice,
through their childhood years,
00:13:43.56\00:13:46.94
when they reach teenage and they
start to leave you then all of a
00:13:46.98\00:13:52.02
sudden they've never had the
opportunity to make a choice.
00:13:52.05\00:13:54.34
They don't know how to make a
right choice and they're going
00:13:54.37\00:13:56.98
to make some very bad choices.
But if you've trained them in
00:13:57.01\00:13:59.59
the process of making choices
00:13:59.62\00:14:00.92
and give them a foundation for
00:14:00.96\00:14:02.49
making those choices. As our
00:14:02.53\00:14:03.99
children were growing,
especially when they hit the
00:14:04.03\00:14:06.58
early teen years, they
would come home at times and say
00:14:06.62\00:14:09.10
so and so did such and such. Why
would they do that. That just
00:14:09.14\00:14:13.29
seems so foolish. I can't
believe this. And we would have
00:14:13.32\00:14:16.49
the opportunity to say you know
you have a foundation for making
00:14:16.53\00:14:19.14
choices. When you don't
have the foundation for making a
00:14:19.17\00:14:21.80
choice, you're going to
make bad choices. But you have a
00:14:21.84\00:14:24.76
foundation for your life and
that is Jesus Christ. You know
00:14:24.79\00:14:28.14
right from wrong and that's
what enables you to make wise
00:14:28.18\00:14:31.68
choices. You can decide and
you can decide well. They've not
00:14:31.72\00:14:34.71
made those choices because
evidently they don't have that
00:14:34.74\00:14:38.03
foundation, but you do. And
that was encouraging for them.
00:14:38.07\00:14:41.56
We also were able to tell them
that we were proud of them for
00:14:41.60\00:14:45.22
making those choices and then
it let them see the contrast.
00:14:45.26\00:14:48.87
You know, I'm not in trouble,
my life is happier because I've
00:14:48.91\00:14:52.28
made good choices versus these
other people who have not made
00:14:52.31\00:14:56.21
good choices. I think that also
the other thing that we learned
00:14:56.24\00:15:00.22
as our children grew is that
rules should be few, they should
00:15:00.25\00:15:04.70
be well chosen, consistently
enforced and that those rules
00:15:04.73\00:15:08.83
should always spring forth from
a foundation of a relationship
00:15:08.86\00:15:13.80
of love. My children should
first know dad and mom love me.
00:15:13.83\00:15:18.21
They are tender towards me, they
are gentle with me, they care
00:15:18.24\00:15:22.59
about me, they praise me,
they're proud of me, they love
00:15:22.62\00:15:26.32
me, and because they love
me they want to protect me and
00:15:26.35\00:15:29.78
there are some rules. As
a family we keep those rules
00:15:29.82\00:15:33.18
basically because they help
protect us. It's important that
00:15:33.22\00:15:36.31
we have an explanation for the
rule. If you can't explain it,
00:15:36.34\00:15:40.44
you may not need it. So there's
a reason for the rule. But that
00:15:40.47\00:15:44.54
rule needs to be wise,
there need to be as few rules as
00:15:44.57\00:15:48.51
possible but consistently
enforced so that every time
00:15:48.55\00:15:52.42
the boundary is crossed there
is a consequence. And if we let
00:15:52.46\00:15:56.84
them cross the boundary
repeatedly without consequences
00:15:56.87\00:15:59.70
then they learn that this is not
actually a rule after all; this
00:15:59.74\00:16:02.73
is something that dad said that
he doesn't really mean and so
00:16:02.77\00:16:05.78
they don't take dad or mom
seriously. But there need to be
00:16:05.81\00:16:08.75
consequences. Then as they grow
we enabled our children to help
00:16:08.79\00:16:13.16
choose what those consequences
would be and sometimes we'd even
00:16:13.19\00:16:17.10
sit down and help choose the
rules together. So what are our
00:16:17.13\00:16:20.44
rules going to be about this and
we'd kind of negotiate back and
00:16:20.48\00:16:23.70
forth. The final decision is
always mom and dad's, you know.
00:16:23.73\00:16:28.70
We are a generous dictator but
we negotiated back and forth and
00:16:28.74\00:16:33.68
then we'd decide the consequence
and so that would be an
00:16:33.71\00:16:36.81
agreement and then if our
children chose to break the rule
00:16:36.85\00:16:41.27
my response was you know I love
and respect you so much that I
00:16:41.31\00:16:45.70
would never withhold from
you a consequence that you have
00:16:45.73\00:16:48.14
freely chosen. You chose this on
your own and I have such respect
00:16:48.18\00:16:52.21
I would never withhold from you
this consequence. You've chosen
00:16:52.24\00:16:56.24
it for your own
And that's biblical.
00:16:56.27\00:16:59.33
That's life
isn't it? That is life.
00:16:59.36\00:17:02.35
We chose consequences. So
although they didn't like that
00:17:02.39\00:17:07.80
ultimately they liked the end
result which was they recognized
00:17:07.84\00:17:11.79
that to some extent they
were masters of their own fate.
00:17:11.82\00:17:15.14
I can choose this, I can choose
this and if I'm willing to pay
00:17:15.18\00:17:18.75
the price, I can chose this.
But that price is pretty heavy
00:17:18.79\00:17:22.24
and don't always want to do that
and it doesn't make me happy.
00:17:22.27\00:17:26.37
So instead I choose this. The
best thing about all this was
00:17:26.41\00:17:30.30
that when our oldest daughter
especially reached the age, she
00:17:30.33\00:17:35.01
was a senior in academy. Some of
her friends were saying boy as
00:17:35.04\00:17:39.69
I graduate I am out of my
parents' house. I am gone, I'm
00:17:39.72\00:17:43.88
going to do this, I'm going to
do that. I'm going to get my own
00:17:43.92\00:17:46.51
place. They looked at Allison.
They said how about you?
00:17:46.54\00:17:50.32
She said no. Why? Well I've
lived my life pretty much the
00:17:50.36\00:17:54.07
way I want to and I'm happy and
mom and dad are paying for most
00:17:54.11\00:17:58.34
things, so why would I leave?
She had learned to make choices
00:17:58.37\00:18:02.23
that we were happy with and that
was now her lifestyle, that's
00:18:02.27\00:18:06.14
how she wanted to live. We
weren't involved in helping her
00:18:06.18\00:18:09.98
make most of those choices, she
was doing it on her own, she was
00:18:10.02\00:18:13.54
self-governing and she realized
this was an easier life right
00:18:13.58\00:18:16.68
now. Until I'm out of college
and can support myself, I'd
00:18:16.72\00:18:19.75
rather stay at home and so she
was happy being with us because
00:18:19.79\00:18:24.03
she had learned to make choices
along the way. And both of our
00:18:24.06\00:18:27.89
daughters ended up doing the
same thing. They liked being at
00:18:27.93\00:18:31.23
home and that was fine because
they'd lived their life pretty
00:18:31.27\00:18:34.66
much as they wanted to because
they had learned to live those
00:18:34.70\00:18:38.06
lives within parameters.
And that's what gave us joy was
00:18:38.09\00:18:41.49
watching them become young women
who made those kind of choices.
00:18:41.53\00:18:44.48
Well the one thing that I keep
00:18:44.51\00:18:46.41
picking up in your relationship
00:18:46.45\00:18:48.32
as well as your children's
00:18:48.35\00:18:49.75
relationship is consistency.
00:18:49.78\00:18:51.11
There is consistency so
consequently if you look behind
00:18:51.15\00:18:54.51
door number one, you're
not going to be surprised.
00:18:54.54\00:18:56.81
You know we talked a little bit
about learning things from your
00:18:56.85\00:19:00.79
family of origin and I think for
me that definitely came from my
00:19:00.82\00:19:04.56
family of origin because I knew,
I could have even articulated
00:19:04.59\00:19:08.72
to you when I was a child that
if my mother said I was going to
00:19:08.75\00:19:12.85
get some such and such a
consequence for doing something
00:19:12.88\00:19:16.56
it would absolutely happen.
There was no doubt about it.
00:19:16.60\00:19:20.21
If she said this was going to
happen, it would happen. I don't
00:19:20.25\00:19:24.90
know how she did it because she
had four children and she worked
00:19:24.93\00:19:29.13
and she... well she didn't when
we were real little, but later
00:19:29.16\00:19:34.06
on she did. But if she said she
was going to do something, she
00:19:34.10\00:19:38.67
would do it. For me I think that
was one of my most difficult
00:19:38.70\00:19:42.59
things only having two children.
I couldn't hardly keep up.
00:19:42.62\00:19:46.44
Well what did I tell them about
such and such. I told them there
00:19:46.48\00:19:49.56
was going to be a consequence
for something and I would forget
00:19:49.60\00:19:53.99
because that wasn't my sole
focus. But with children it is
00:19:54.03\00:19:58.64
their sole focus and they will
remember. You know, mom said
00:19:58.68\00:20:04.06
this and then she didn't do
it. They remember that. I'm sure
00:20:04.10\00:20:09.45
if you would talk to my
mom she would probably say oh I
00:20:09.48\00:20:12.23
struggled with that too. But in
my mind she didn't. If she told
00:20:12.27\00:20:15.80
me such and such was going
to happen, she was so consistent
00:20:15.83\00:20:19.33
about it. I did
learn that I could bluff
00:20:19.36\00:20:20.82
my way through at times. When
they would do something and I
00:20:20.86\00:20:23.83
didn't remember what the
consequence was, I'd look at
00:20:23.86\00:20:25.54
them and say, now what did I
tell you the consequence would
00:20:25.58\00:20:29.94
be? Because I knew they would
remember. Well Daddy, you said
00:20:29.98\00:20:34.31
...all right that's happening.
Then they thought I had
00:20:34.34\00:20:38.60
remember as well. I
think the other part of it too
00:20:38.63\00:20:42.82
though is to always mix it with
mercy. The gospel is all about
00:20:42.86\00:20:47.81
grace and grace is undeserved
favor, something that we don't
00:20:47.84\00:20:53.17
merit, we don't deserve it,
and there are times when just
00:20:53.20\00:20:58.46
because you know that it would
do that child's heart good, you
00:20:58.50\00:21:02.31
don't follow through with the
consequence as stated but you
00:21:02.35\00:21:06.13
talk it through with them and
00:21:06.16\00:21:08.02
you say we're not going to do
00:21:08.05\00:21:09.97
this because and you give them
00:21:10.00\00:21:12.10
grace so they see what it's like
00:21:12.14\00:21:14.17
what is God's grace like. God's
grace is giving me something
00:21:14.21\00:21:17.44
that I totally don't deserve.
That's right, and withholding
00:21:17.48\00:21:21.32
what I do deserve, which is
the consequence. And that is his
00:21:21.36\00:21:25.17
grace. I can
remember that happening
00:21:25.20\00:21:27.35
with some kind of a paper that
one of the girls was supposed to
00:21:27.39\00:21:30.99
write and she'd gotten to the
last second and she hadn't done
00:21:31.02\00:21:34.91
it and you know the consequence
should be that she just goes to
00:21:34.95\00:21:38.81
school and suffers the
consequence and instead, I could
00:21:38.84\00:21:43.22
tell this was really hurting her
heart. So I just went in and I
00:21:43.26\00:21:47.26
said okay let's get this done
and I worked on it together with
00:21:47.30\00:21:51.64
her practically through the
night so that it could be done.
00:21:51.68\00:21:55.58
You know that means a lot to a
child; oh my mom cares, it's not
00:21:55.62\00:21:59.33
all just about consequences and
punishments and things like that
00:21:59.36\00:22:03.04
My mom loves me,
she wants the best.
00:22:03.07\00:22:06.20
Children need to know that they
are cherished, that there's a
00:22:06.24\00:22:10.53
tenderness between
parent and child. I think that's
00:22:10.56\00:22:13.27
particularly true of dads.
Obviously we are the stronger
00:22:13.31\00:22:18.76
supposed to be, of the two sexes
and we represent justice and
00:22:18.80\00:22:23.26
judgment to our children,
but there also needs to be that
00:22:23.30\00:22:27.73
grace and that tenderness and
00:22:27.76\00:22:29.32
respect in dealing with our
00:22:29.35\00:22:30.84
children. So we would endeavor
not to embarrass our children
00:22:30.88\00:22:35.55
in public if indeed they deserve
the consequence we might wait
00:22:35.58\00:22:39.34
until it is more of a private
time and then we'd share with
00:22:39.37\00:22:42.24
them the consequence so as not
to embarrass them in front of
00:22:42.28\00:22:45.62
their friends, because we wanted
them to know that we respected
00:22:45.66\00:22:48.94
them, respected their feelings
and we respected who they were
00:22:48.97\00:22:52.30
as individuals. And that's a
part of the tenderness and the
00:22:52.34\00:22:55.23
gentleness. Then when I would
speak to my children I tried to
00:22:55.26\00:22:58.22
make sure that I did not
raise my voice at them, I didn't
00:22:58.25\00:23:00.96
scream at them. I've seen people
scream at their children in
00:23:00.99\00:23:03.67
malls and at church and
everything else. That doesn't
00:23:03.70\00:23:05.97
show respect for the children.
It also tells me that the parent
00:23:06.01\00:23:08.92
has not learned to act.
They scream and they don't act.
00:23:08.95\00:23:12.46
If you act, you don't
have to scream in most cases.
00:23:12.49\00:23:15.93
Now obviously there will be
variations on this rule because
00:23:15.97\00:23:19.67
there are children who have some
emotional or physical problems
00:23:19.71\00:23:23.38
but for the most part if you
act you don't have to scream.
00:23:23.41\00:23:27.66
Screaming is usually a sign of
a failure to act and a failure
00:23:27.69\00:23:31.68
to do the hard work when they're
very young. And so we would
00:23:31.72\00:23:35.32
withhold the screaming and
instead treat them with dignity
00:23:35.35\00:23:38.75
and not try to make them feel
like they're terrible people
00:23:38.79\00:23:42.12
but respect them. John Eldridge
in particular in his books talks
00:23:42.16\00:23:46.65
about the role of the father
in the lives of children and
00:23:46.68\00:23:49.44
this is key and I find this over
and over again in my counseling.
00:23:49.48\00:23:52.38
What I end up doing now is
refathering young adults who
00:23:52.41\00:23:57.38
were fathered poorly or whose
fathers were absent. That is
00:23:57.42\00:24:01.68
such a tragedy. But basically
it is the father who tells the
00:24:01.71\00:24:06.10
boy when he reaches manhood,
you are a man. I'm proud of you.
00:24:06.14\00:24:11.13
You measure up, you measure up
to your peers, you are among us
00:24:11.17\00:24:15.17
you are a man. If a father never
really sends that message to a
00:24:15.20\00:24:19.08
son his son spends the rest of
his life struggling to measure
00:24:19.12\00:24:23.03
up, looking for that acceptance,
looking for that acknowledgement
00:24:23.07\00:24:26.95
that I measure up, that I
am a man. I shared this with a
00:24:26.98\00:24:30.41
member of our church who has
a lovely relationship with his
00:24:30.44\00:24:33.55
son and his son was away at
college. I shared that little
00:24:33.58\00:24:36.62
concept of John Eldridge with
him. He said, oh I'm not worried
00:24:36.66\00:24:39.69
about that because my boy knows,
he knows that I believe in him.
00:24:39.72\00:24:42.72
But he got to thinking about
it that night and so he made a
00:24:42.75\00:24:45.76
phone call to his son that
evening while he was away at
00:24:45.80\00:24:48.74
college. He said, son you may
think that I'm silly for saying
00:24:48.78\00:24:52.37
this but I just got to thinking
about this after a conversation
00:24:52.40\00:24:56.16
with the pastor and I just want
you to know how proud I am of
00:24:56.20\00:24:59.56
you. I want you to know that you
are a man, that in my eyes you
00:24:59.59\00:25:03.74
truly measure up, that you have
arrived, you are a man. He said
00:25:03.77\00:25:07.25
that there was a long silence
on the phone after that and then
00:25:07.28\00:25:10.78
his son in tears said Dad you'll
never know how long I waited
00:25:10.81\00:25:15.05
to hear you say that. That was
a seminole moment in that young
00:25:15.08\00:25:19.06
man's life because dad had done
the work of fathering and now
00:25:19.10\00:25:23.05
said you measure up.
There are probably lots of
00:25:23.08\00:25:26.43
fathers out there who never do
00:25:26.46\00:25:28.62
that. That's right.
And that is important.
00:25:28.66\00:25:31.13
It's also the father who tells
the daughter you are a princess.
00:25:31.17\00:25:34.91
You are to be cherished and
respected. You are someone who
00:25:34.94\00:25:38.56
deserves to be pursued, and you
are to have enough respect for
00:25:38.60\00:25:42.83
your own body and yourself that
you are to expect them to pursue
00:25:42.87\00:25:47.07
and you should be respected.
You are a princess and you are
00:25:47.10\00:25:50.50
desirable. That is the father's
job as well. When that doesn't
00:25:50.53\00:25:54.48
happen, the young woman develops
father hunger and she may work
00:25:54.51\00:25:57.76
it all sorts of ways in order to
try to fulfill that longing in
00:25:57.80\00:26:01.02
her heart. So it's important.
Dads have a very important role
00:26:01.06\00:26:04.25
to play. Yes they
do, I'll tell you.
00:26:04.28\00:26:06.54
Well here once again we're
running out of time. We've got
00:26:06.58\00:26:10.62
about another minute and
a half. Can you sum this up?
00:26:10.65\00:26:14.62
I would say one of the main
things we need to remember is a
00:26:14.66\00:26:19.34
respect for our children.
Respect them as individuals that
00:26:19.38\00:26:23.89
God created that God gave us
and love them the way God loves
00:26:23.92\00:26:28.61
them. Take time to talk with
them. Do the hard work when they
00:26:28.64\00:26:32.66
are little and be consistent
with them. Let them know that
00:26:32.69\00:26:36.28
they are loved and cherished
and that they are a part of your
00:26:36.32\00:26:39.88
family that you are
eternally grateful for.
00:26:39.91\00:26:43.00
And I would add to that it's
important that parents not be
00:26:43.04\00:26:47.05
afraid to be the parent. I think
that there's been a lot of times
00:26:47.09\00:26:50.91
where people have said don't
damage their psyche. No. You
00:26:50.94\00:26:54.68
have a responsibility to teach
values and to lead by example
00:26:54.72\00:26:58.35
and to show your children that
God loves them just as you do.
00:26:58.38\00:27:01.98
Don't be afraid to set
boundaries, don't be afraid to
00:27:02.01\00:27:03.79
be the parent. It's
always wonderful to have
00:27:03.82\00:27:08.18
you here. I just love what
you've got to tell us. It's just
00:27:08.22\00:27:11.21
so practical. The good thing
about it is that you've been
00:27:11.25\00:27:14.37
there and you've done
that. You should be so proud of
00:27:14.41\00:27:17.11
yourselves in that your
children have turned out well.
00:27:17.14\00:27:19.43
Well thank you. We're
proud of the Lord and what he's
00:27:19.46\00:27:21.71
accomplished in our
lives more than anything else.
00:27:21.74\00:27:23.92
Thank you, it's been a joy.
Well I just want to thank you
00:27:23.96\00:27:27.03
both for being here because
you're just so precious. I just
00:27:27.06\00:27:29.84
want to share with you before
closing one of my favorite
00:27:29.87\00:27:34.16
scriptures. I Thessalonians
5:16-18. Basically it just says
00:27:34.19\00:27:38.37
Remember that the will of God is
for us to rejoice always. Pray
00:27:38.41\00:27:42.74
without ceasing and to give
all thanks to him for everything
00:27:42.77\00:27:47.07
that we have in our
life. We love you here at 3ABN.
00:27:47.10\00:27:50.36
We always
welcome you to tune in.
00:27:50.39\00:27:54.70
God bless each
and every one of you.
00:27:54.74\00:27:59.02