Hello, I am J.D. Quinn.
This is "Issues and Answers."
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Welcome today. We've
got a wonderful topic.
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We're going to be
talking about 'Marriage.'
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In fact, we're
going to be talking
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about the
'Spirituality in Marriage.'
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So I just want all
of you to listen closely
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because this is going to
touch each one of our hearts.
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I always like to
start with a scripture.
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Today, our scripture is
taken from Hebrews 13:4.
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"Marriage should
be honored by all,
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and the marriage bed kept pure,
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for God will judge the adulterer
and all the sexually immoral."
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I want to
welcome our guests today.
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We have Pastor Mike and
we have Pastor Gayle Tucker
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from Arlington,
Texas. That's right.
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Tell us a little bit
about yourself very quick.
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Well, Gayle and I
have been pastoring
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in Arlington for 14 1/2 years.
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And I also am a Speaker
Director for Faith for Today.
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And we have two adult daughters.
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We are empty
nesters. And what else?
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You don't look old
enough to be in here.
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Aren't you nice?
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No, believe me, we are--
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we've been married
what? 31 years. 31 years.
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My goodness. That's right.
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Yeah, that's good.
The Lord has been good.
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Amen. They've been good years.
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At least for me
they have been good.
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Oh, they're
good. All right, good.
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Yeah, I have to agree with that.
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Oh, I know that both
of you are very, very busy
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and I also know that you put
on a lot of seminars on top of,
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you know, all of your
church work and everything.
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I know that in
your marriage seminars
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and you've also written
a book about spirituality.
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Exactly what do we
mean by spirituality?
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You know, sometimes
it's easier to talk about
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what spirituality is not
before we talk about what it is.
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What spirituality is
not is Sabbath keeping.
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Now Sabbath keeping may be
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an expression of
your spirituality,
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but that is not
primarily what it is.
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It's not vegetarinasm. Amen.
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It's not Streicher
tendency, although,
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those things may eventually
be expressions of spirituality.
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Sometimes we
look at spirituality
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as being those things
or maybe an understanding
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of end time events
or an understanding
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of doctrine or prophecy.
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And those things maybe an
expression of spirituality,
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but they are not
essentially spirituality.
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Spirituality s one thing
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and that is seeking
the face of God. Amen.
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To know Him, to experience Him,
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to long for Him,
to know Him intimately
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that's spirituality to seek
Him and to experience in Him.
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Now this begins though by
an understanding of the Gospel,
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a recognition of our
inability to be God our self,
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a recognition of our need
and our utter helplessness
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when it comes to our salvation.
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Our utter dependence
upon God for our salvation.
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It starts with recognizing
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that He is
supreme and we are not
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and He saves us by His grace
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not by our
works, but by His grace.
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Amen. That's were it begins.
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Is knowing who He
is and who we are.
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We are sinners in
need of His salvation.
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And He is God
and then we seek Him
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and we long to
experience Him. Amen.
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That's the gospel
right there, is it not?
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Yes, it is. Amen.
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How do we apply
this to our marriage?
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You know, it's for
some reason it's difficult.
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It seems like it's hard
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to talk about
spirituality with one another.
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It's hard to have
spirituality in your marriage.
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And so people say, "Well, why,
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you know, is
that really necessary?
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Can't we just love
each other, you know.
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Can we just, you
know, do all the things
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you're supposed
to do in your house?"
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But actually when
we have spirituality,
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when we are
seeking the face of God,
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then we are connecting ourselves
with the source of life
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and joy and love. Amen.
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You know the Bible says,
I've come that you may have life
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and that you may
have it abundantly.
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And I'm telling you these things
so that your joy may be full.
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And what do we
want in our marriage
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is more than
life and joy and love.
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Very well plugged.
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That's exactly
what we're looking for.
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And so when we're
seeking the face of God
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we are putting ourselves
in connection with the one
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who can provide those.
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And yet that is difficult
because spirituality means
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that you have to be
vulnerable and open.
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There can be no
hiddenness, can there?
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We have to be
open before our Lord
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and if I'm going to
share that with my wife
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that means there's has
to be an openness here.
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She has to see that
there are flaws in me
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not that she would
not see that already. Yes.
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I mean, we've
been living together
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for 31 years in marriage.
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So there's very
few flaws that I have
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that she's not aware of already,
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but to admit that to her.
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Sometimes is a
difficult thing for me to do.
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And, yeah, that's the key
to spirituality, isn't it?
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But when we have spirituality,
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when we are
seeking the face of God,
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it fits us for relationship.
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You know, when the Bible talks
about the fruits of the spirit.
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It says, love, joy,
peace, long suffering,
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gentleness, goodness,
faith, meekness, temperance.
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If you just
think about your home,
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what more would you want than
those things to be in your home.
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That in your home--
it's a place of love.
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It's a place of joy.
It's a place of peace.
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You know, we're seeking peace.
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You're not going to
find that out in the world.
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You know, as
much as you may have
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colleagues or
friends that you enjoy.
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You can not
trust that out there,
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you're going to
find a safe haven. No.
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But when we are
seeking the face of God,
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when we allow the fruits of His
Spirit to be a part of our home
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then we will find
that in our homes.
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Amen. And those fruits--
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that's the result
of seeking God's face.
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That's not something
that I can't drop on my own.
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That I can produce in my home.
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That's something that
God gives to me as a gift,
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as a result of
having sought His face.
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Because seeking
His face to know Him
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means that I'm going
to become more like Him
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and that makes me-- those things
that we just talked about.
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That produces
those fruit in my life
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and in your
life and in our home.
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And when we do
marriage seminars,
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you know, we'll ask
people just close your eyes
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and think about
those fruits of the spirit
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and imagine your
home being a place
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where there is patience,
where there is gentleness,
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you know, when someone speaks
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they speak with gentleness,
they speak with tenderness.
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There is temperance.
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In other words,
there's a balance in things.
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And it's just a
beautiful thought,
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a beautiful idea to
know that those fruits
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can be present in your home.
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And the way that
we find that is simply
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by seeking God's face
and doing that together.
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It's not just--
I'm doing it over here
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and Mike's doing it over
here or you're doing it here
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and Shelley's
doing it over there,
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you know, we're
doing it together. Amen.
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And it creates an
atmosphere in your home
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that you would
desire. That's true.
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What I'm picking up, you
know, we all have different
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guest terminology, but
you're on the same page.
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And there's a peace on
being on the same page.
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You know I guess that, you
know, it certainly is biblical
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that we want our will to line
up the will of Jesus Christ.
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You know, because then
you have that peace, you know.
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And so this is what
we're talking about here.
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Yeah. Go ahead.
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Another benefit is that
it gives you a foundation
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upon which to make
decisions in your home.
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And we talked about
this in another program that,
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that sometimes we
don't have any foundation
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upon which to decide,
which way we're going.
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And if Christ is the foundation
then you look in His word
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and you're going to
have a way to decide
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what you're going
to do in your family.
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What you're going to
do with your children?
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What you're going
to do in your home?
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Another benefit of
spirituality though is
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it provides
intimacy for the two of us.
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You know, how can I expect
to have intimacy with my wife
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if we can't agree
on the most basic,
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the most tender, the
most intimate thing in life
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and that is to
know and experience God.
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But when we seek Him together
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we are drawn
closer to the center,
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because Jesus Christ is
the center of all things.
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And as we do that then we
come closer to each other,
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don't we? Yeah.
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And so when we
find intimacy there--
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in Christ we have that closeness
to each other then too.
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It brings us closer together.
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It helps us to find that
intimate relationship. Amen.
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I think the fourth benefit
that we usually speak of is
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that it provides an
avenue for forgiveness. Yes.
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You know the fact is you're
married to an imperfect person
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and your spouse is married
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to an imperfect
person. That's right.
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And there are going to
be so many times when--
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when you hurt one another,
when there are injuries,
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when there is just, you know,
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an unkind word or
there's something bigger.
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And if there is no
way to get rid of that
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then its always
going to be between you
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and it's going to
drive you apart. It will.
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But, when you are
seeking the face of God,
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you're seeking the
one who provides a way
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to get rid of those things,
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because He provides forgiveness
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and you don't find
that anywhere else.
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No, you don't.
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In fact, I read
about an interview
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that was done on British
Television with a famous atheist
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and her
comment-- one comment was,
00:10:00.74\00:10:03.24
you know, I really admire
you Christians for one thing.
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She said, "I have
no one to forgive me."
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You know, as an atheist
you don't. Wow, that's right.
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You don't have
anyone to forgive you plus,
00:10:11.82\00:10:13.44
you don't have anyone to
help you forgive others. Amen.
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The bitterness
wells up inside of you.
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If you're not forgiven, you're
not likely to forgive others.
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And so it's just
builds and grows--
00:10:20.91\00:10:22.65
So what do you do with it?
00:10:22.68\00:10:24.71
But Jesus says,
"I will take that.
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I will take it away and
I'll make it right in the end,
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you don't have
to worry about it."
00:10:30.34\00:10:31.71
That's right. "I will do it."
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And if you just trust
Me you can hand it to me,
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you don't have
to carry it around.
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If people could
just understand that
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and it is that simple. It is.
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You know, if you
will just surrender
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and people don't
understand exactly
00:10:43.12\00:10:44.49
the surrendering process,
but it's just giving to Him
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and let Him take those burdens.
00:10:47.53\00:10:49.86
You know, position yourself.
00:10:49.89\00:10:51.50
Let me fight that
battle for you. That's right.
00:10:51.53\00:10:53.09
My goodness, how--
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It does. It changes everything.
00:10:55.19\00:10:56.81
It changes every
perspective of your life,
00:10:56.84\00:10:59.01
every attitude of your
life, it changes everything
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because now you
can go through life
00:11:02.28\00:11:04.54
and you're less
critical of others.
00:11:04.57\00:11:06.76
You know, if I'm not forgiven
00:11:06.79\00:11:08.30
or if I'm afraid
I'm not measuring up
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which, you know, the
Gospel takes care of.
00:11:10.74\00:11:13.15
It says, you don't
measure up and it's all right
00:11:13.18\00:11:14.97
because Jesus Christ
is measured up for you.
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But if I don't
know that then I'm going
00:11:17.35\00:11:20.43
to enter into
the comparison game.
00:11:20.46\00:11:22.95
And I want to say,
well, I may be wrong here,
00:11:22.98\00:11:24.40
but you know, what?
00:11:24.43\00:11:25.80
You've got worst
things going on in your life.
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You're wronger. Yeah,
you're wronger than I am.
00:11:27.23\00:11:30.26
You're worse than me.
00:11:30.29\00:11:31.66
And so we begin to, we
cannibalize each other. Yes.
00:11:31.69\00:11:34.80
You've seen this in
churches that are so legalistic
00:11:34.83\00:11:37.75
and so judgmental of one another
that they eat each other alive.
00:11:37.78\00:11:43.65
And just devour
one another. So sad.
00:11:43.68\00:11:46.09
When that takes
place in your home,
00:11:46.12\00:11:48.10
there is no joy,
there's no safety.
00:11:48.13\00:11:52.90
Legalism, I believe
is the worst thing going.
00:11:52.93\00:11:56.09
I believe that is the
antithesis of Christianity.
00:11:56.12\00:12:00.11
It is paganism, feeling that we
basically have to earn our right
00:12:00.14\00:12:05.05
or do something in
order to win the favor of God
00:12:05.08\00:12:08.72
and to be accepted by Him.
00:12:08.75\00:12:11.41
Basically, our
acceptance is based
00:12:11.44\00:12:12.94
upon what Jesus has done
for us and He changes us,
00:12:12.97\00:12:16.34
but He changes us to where
we're more accepting of others
00:12:16.37\00:12:19.42
and we don't
cannibalize one another. Amen.
00:12:19.45\00:12:21.60
We accept each other. Amen.
00:12:21.63\00:12:23.41
And I mean that's
true love. Yes, it is.
00:12:23.44\00:12:26.02
You know, which is respect.
00:12:26.05\00:12:27.68
It's respect that 's
just a bridge of it's own.
00:12:27.71\00:12:30.30
That's right. That's right.
00:12:30.33\00:12:31.70
You know, it's that safety net
00:12:31.73\00:12:33.10
that you're
talking about, you know.
00:12:33.13\00:12:34.55
But even then we have
to have practical means
00:12:34.58\00:12:36.83
of making this happen. Exactly.
00:12:36.86\00:12:38.74
So, you know, we can talk about
00:12:38.77\00:12:40.45
the principle of spirituality
in seeking God's face,
00:12:40.48\00:12:43.85
but then how do you do this?
00:12:43.88\00:12:45.72
And for some
reason it seems like
00:12:45.75\00:12:47.67
it's hard to do in marriage.
00:12:47.70\00:12:49.70
You know, you would think we've
talked about all the benefits,
00:12:49.73\00:12:52.57
should be easy, you
know, I agree with all that,
00:12:52.60\00:12:54.69
I would love to have
all those things in my life,
00:12:54.72\00:12:56.81
but why is it hard?
00:12:56.84\00:12:58.42
And I think the first
reason it's hard is because
00:12:58.45\00:13:00.96
it's just at enmity
with our natural spirit.
00:13:00.99\00:13:04.47
You know, we
have a sinful spirit.
00:13:04.50\00:13:07.74
And so for us to be
open and transparent
00:13:07.77\00:13:11.41
to another person in
terms of our spirituality
00:13:11.44\00:13:14.25
is sometimes
very difficult. It is.
00:13:14.28\00:13:16.39
We've talked to a lot of
pastors and we've struggled
00:13:16.42\00:13:19.03
with this ourselves
about praying together.
00:13:19.06\00:13:23.23
That it's sometimes
difficult to pray together.
00:13:23.26\00:13:26.04
And we've met with
different pastors groups
00:13:26.07\00:13:29.45
and they kind of,
confess privately,
00:13:29.48\00:13:31.58
you know, what? It's
hard for my wife and I
00:13:31.61\00:13:33.54
to pray together
because that opens you up.
00:13:33.57\00:13:36.88
You know, when you open
your heart before the Lord
00:13:36.91\00:13:39.51
and you pray together and you
tell him what's in your heart.
00:13:39.54\00:13:43.16
And then your spouse sees you,
go out and do something that's,
00:13:43.19\00:13:46.46
you know,
completely opposite of that.
00:13:46.49\00:13:49.07
Then, you know, it seems
to be-- it doesn't line up.
00:13:49.10\00:13:52.86
Well, it's just
being double-minded.
00:13:52.89\00:13:54.26
Yes, yes. Yes.
00:13:54.29\00:13:55.77
And yet we all are. Yes.
00:13:55.80\00:13:57.71
You know, there's not one of
us that's perfect. That's right.
00:13:57.74\00:14:00.12
And so that double
mindedness is there in us.
00:14:00.15\00:14:03.39
And certainly our spouse
is going to see that. Yes.
00:14:03.42\00:14:06.40
Certainly, the Lord does.
And that's a part of this--
00:14:06.43\00:14:09.42
And, of course,
that creates confusion
00:14:09.45\00:14:10.97
and we certainly know, you know,
00:14:11.00\00:14:12.37
that God is not the
author of confusion.
00:14:12.40\00:14:14.54
And so just bringing that
together it's back in there,
00:14:14.57\00:14:18.49
being on the same page and so.
00:14:18.52\00:14:20.37
So we're talking
about the practical aspects.
00:14:20.40\00:14:22.30
Right. Yes.
00:14:22.33\00:14:23.70
So practically how did you this?
00:14:23.73\00:14:25.10
I think you start
personally and that is learning
00:14:25.13\00:14:27.73
how to seek God's face
00:14:27.76\00:14:29.13
and that means
receiving the Gospel,
00:14:29.16\00:14:31.22
recognizing that
you've been accepted,
00:14:31.25\00:14:33.23
you are forgiven,
your salvation is secure,
00:14:33.26\00:14:36.00
you can trust Jesus for that.
00:14:36.03\00:14:38.11
And then we grow in Him
personally by experiencing Him,
00:14:38.14\00:14:41.51
by practicing what we would call
00:14:41.54\00:14:42.91
spiritual habits or
spiritual disciplines.
00:14:42.94\00:14:46.06
Prayer, meditation,
worship, giving, praise,
00:14:46.09\00:14:51.30
those kinds of things which--
00:14:51.33\00:14:52.88
in fact, I've got a
book coming out on that
00:14:52.91\00:14:54.28
this Spring
entitled "Every Good Thing."
00:14:54.31\00:14:56.98
It's looking at those
spiritual habits that we form.
00:14:57.01\00:14:59.77
It's found in
the Book of Psalms.
00:14:59.80\00:15:01.75
So we do that individually,
00:15:01.78\00:15:03.15
but then we need
to do it together.
00:15:03.18\00:15:05.70
And we begin to share our
walk with each other. Yeah.
00:15:05.73\00:15:09.43
And I think one thing to do
00:15:09.46\00:15:11.13
is just to start
with small things.
00:15:11.16\00:15:13.34
If this is not
something that a person--
00:15:13.37\00:15:15.48
that a couple has done a
whole lot of, start small.
00:15:15.51\00:15:19.43
If I have a devotional
thought in the morning
00:15:19.46\00:15:23.27
that I read and it
means something to me.
00:15:23.30\00:15:26.35
Then I can say, you know, I
read this thing this morning,
00:15:26.38\00:15:29.21
what do you think about this?
00:15:29.24\00:15:30.98
And just share-- if a
prayer has been answered.
00:15:31.01\00:15:35.09
You know, I was
doing such and such today
00:15:35.12\00:15:37.91
and I know that the
Lord answered my prayer
00:15:37.94\00:15:40.43
and I want you to
hear about it. Right.
00:15:40.46\00:15:42.23
And share those things.
00:15:42.26\00:15:43.63
Share your
journey with your spouse.
00:15:43.66\00:15:45.93
I know, Shelley, does
that with me, you know.
00:15:45.96\00:15:47.81
She gets up
little earlier than I do
00:15:47.84\00:15:49.59
and whenever I get up if she's
read something that's special.
00:15:49.62\00:15:53.23
She says,
"You've got to hear this
00:15:53.26\00:15:54.65
and she has to dominate it
and it really is a precious...
00:15:54.68\00:15:57.24
Yeah, it is precious.
00:15:57.27\00:15:59.91
You know, it's nice
that she thinks enough of me
00:15:59.94\00:16:03.12
and it's nice that
I think enough of her
00:16:03.15\00:16:04.84
that we will both
take that time out and--
00:16:04.87\00:16:06.54
That's true. And unless that--
00:16:06.57\00:16:08.15
Share that with
each other. Yeah.
00:16:08.18\00:16:09.84
Listen and
experience that together.
00:16:09.87\00:16:12.22
Gayle quite often will
get up early in the morning
00:16:12.25\00:16:14.50
and I think it's
important to have a place
00:16:14.53\00:16:17.38
for your quiet time and
Gayle uses our walk-in closet.
00:16:17.41\00:16:22.03
You know, they say
pray in the closet, I do--
00:16:22.06\00:16:23.47
That's what she does.
Wow. So you do it literally.
00:16:23.50\00:16:25.27
So she's sitting on
the floor of the closet,
00:16:25.30\00:16:26.97
crosslegged with a
Bible in her lab, you know--
00:16:27.00\00:16:29.71
Well, I got started with that
00:16:29.74\00:16:31.16
because when our
children were home,
00:16:31.19\00:16:33.44
there was just no place to be,
00:16:33.47\00:16:35.20
where there wasn't
someone else except the closet,
00:16:35.23\00:16:37.57
so that was it.
She goes in the closet.
00:16:37.60\00:16:39.80
And so I can remember
getting ready one morning
00:16:39.83\00:16:41.96
thinking she was already gone
00:16:41.99\00:16:43.48
and I walked into the
closet and there she sits,
00:16:43.51\00:16:45.20
I nearly
stumbled over, you know.
00:16:45.23\00:16:47.34
Well, I don't
want to disturb her,
00:16:47.37\00:16:48.74
but let me grab my
pants. I need to get a shirt.
00:16:48.77\00:16:52.11
But still it's an
exciting thing to know
00:16:52.14\00:16:54.57
that my wife is
seeking God's face
00:16:54.60\00:16:56.42
and that she is doing
that on a daily basis.
00:16:56.45\00:16:59.01
For her to know that
I'm doing the same thing,
00:16:59.04\00:17:01.09
that I'm reading
through scripture,
00:17:01.12\00:17:02.76
that I'm trying to figure
out what God wants from me
00:17:02.79\00:17:05.36
and then to be able to share
that together to read a passage.
00:17:05.39\00:17:08.25
You know, this is
what I'm studying today
00:17:08.28\00:17:10.39
and this is what it means to me.
00:17:10.42\00:17:12.20
I haven't known
either one of you very long,
00:17:12.23\00:17:14.72
but I've spend
enough time to know
00:17:14.75\00:17:16.68
how special your
relationship is with each other.
00:17:16.71\00:17:20.50
And I know that, that
doesn't happen accidentally. No.
00:17:20.53\00:17:23.40
I know that it does take work.
00:17:23.43\00:17:25.59
But I'm beginning to see
how all that comes together
00:17:25.62\00:17:28.70
because you have
focalized in, on the Lord Jesus
00:17:28.73\00:17:32.75
as being the focal
point of your relationship.
00:17:32.78\00:17:35.35
Oh, He has blessed us in
a way that's just amazing.
00:17:35.38\00:17:39.07
It is like He just
picked us up and put us together
00:17:39.10\00:17:41.52
and our
relationship is to His credit.
00:17:41.55\00:17:46.01
It is. It's to His glory.
00:17:46.04\00:17:48.50
Another thing,
that we can do together
00:17:48.53\00:17:51.29
I think is simply to
share our ministry together.
00:17:51.32\00:17:54.59
To have something that you
do as a family or as a couple
00:17:54.62\00:17:58.77
that is reaching
outside of yourself.
00:17:58.80\00:18:00.95
And it can be
something you do at church.
00:18:00.98\00:18:03.13
It can be something
you do in the community.
00:18:03.16\00:18:05.78
But certainly all of
us need to be involved
00:18:05.81\00:18:07.54
in some form of ministry,
00:18:07.57\00:18:09.59
some form of
working out for others.
00:18:09.62\00:18:13.12
This is what
God has done for us.
00:18:13.15\00:18:14.88
It can be something
like bringing food to people
00:18:14.91\00:18:18.38
or it can be sharing
your walk with others
00:18:18.41\00:18:22.59
and sharing a
Christian track with Him
00:18:22.62\00:18:24.26
or giving Bible studies
00:18:24.29\00:18:26.12
or something you
do at the church.
00:18:26.15\00:18:28.33
Maybe you can teach a
Sabbath school class together
00:18:28.36\00:18:31.24
or you're in
charge of a youth group.
00:18:31.27\00:18:33.66
Gayle and I've
done that together.
00:18:33.69\00:18:35.06
At times, in our
church even as large as it is,
00:18:35.09\00:18:38.04
there have been
times when we didn't have
00:18:38.07\00:18:39.44
an early teen
leader, 7th and 8th grade,
00:18:39.47\00:18:41.77
you know, and that
frightened some people.
00:18:41.80\00:18:43.78
And so Gayle and I
have taken it over.
00:18:43.81\00:18:45.35
We've done that at
times for a 12-month-period,
00:18:45.38\00:18:47.86
18-month-period and
other times for 2 or 3 months.
00:18:47.89\00:18:50.62
We just thoroughly
enjoy that. We enjoy the kids.
00:18:50.65\00:18:53.84
And we-- again, we have
three services at our church.
00:18:53.87\00:18:56.67
The middle service I
don't usually preach at,
00:18:56.70\00:18:58.69
sometimes I do, but not usually.
00:18:58.72\00:19:00.64
And so I'll
preach first service,
00:19:00.67\00:19:02.04
we'll run over and do
early teen Sabbath school
00:19:02.07\00:19:04.35
and then we'll run back and
do the last service together.
00:19:04.38\00:19:07.08
And it's just-- it
really is a lot of fun.
00:19:07.11\00:19:09.11
Planning for that and
doing it together. It is.
00:19:09.14\00:19:11.38
I know a lot of people
tell me they will feel,
00:19:11.41\00:19:13.24
"Well, I'm inadequate
00:19:13.27\00:19:14.64
'cause I don't
really know enough."
00:19:14.67\00:19:16.04
So they don't want to maybe
get into the teaching right now.
00:19:16.07\00:19:18.80
But, the ones
that I have talked to,
00:19:18.83\00:19:21.58
they love being
greeters. Yes. That's right.
00:19:21.61\00:19:23.86
Because they get to
meet everybody. Perfect.
00:19:23.89\00:19:26.66
And so you know, that's a good
place to start, right there.
00:19:26.69\00:19:29.22
Oh, it's one of the most
pleasant things you can do
00:19:29.25\00:19:31.20
and most important. Yes, it is.
00:19:31.23\00:19:33.29
First impressions come from
those meetings. That's right.
00:19:33.32\00:19:35.20
We've got families
that do that together.
00:19:35.23\00:19:37.41
Mom, dad, the kids, you know,
they'll take over a Sabbath
00:19:37.44\00:19:40.82
and greet that Sabbath
00:19:40.85\00:19:42.22
and it's really neat
to see that families,
00:19:42.25\00:19:43.62
they welcome you
and-- That's right.
00:19:43.65\00:19:45.08
Just do something
kind for your neighbors,
00:19:45.11\00:19:47.31
you know, that's another
way to minister together.
00:19:47.34\00:19:50.22
And it doesn't have to be that,
00:19:50.25\00:19:52.24
"Oh, I don't know how to
go give them a Bible study."
00:19:52.27\00:19:54.48
It doesn't have to be that.
00:19:54.51\00:19:55.88
Just share God's love
in some practical way.
00:19:55.91\00:19:59.99
I know one situation
here, is we have a lady here
00:20:00.02\00:20:03.16
that bakes bread
and I'll never forget
00:20:03.19\00:20:06.06
the time when she brought
that first loaf of bread.
00:20:06.09\00:20:09.58
I mean, it's funny the
things that we remember,
00:20:09.61\00:20:12.46
but I'll never forget
that. You know, I mean, just...
00:20:12.49\00:20:15.61
When I used to be
a hospital chaplain
00:20:15.64\00:20:18.25
and when I was doing that--
00:20:18.28\00:20:19.83
it was my job to do
the grief recovery programs
00:20:19.86\00:20:22.02
and we did five weeks of grief
recovery, four times a year.
00:20:22.05\00:20:26.08
And every time I did
this, we were having 60,
00:20:26.11\00:20:28.91
80 or 100 people
come to these things.
00:20:28.94\00:20:31.18
And every time I
did one of these things,
00:20:31.21\00:20:32.83
one woman in particular
was there every quarter.
00:20:32.86\00:20:36.24
And she would come
and sit next to someone
00:20:36.27\00:20:38.46
for the entire five weeks.
00:20:38.49\00:20:40.56
And the next quarter, she would
be sitting next to someone else.
00:20:40.59\00:20:43.32
And the crowds were so large.
00:20:43.35\00:20:44.72
I didn't get a
chance to talk to her.
00:20:44.75\00:20:46.12
And finally, I talked to
her and she told me the story
00:20:46.15\00:20:47.98
of how her four-year-old
son had died in an accident
00:20:48.01\00:20:52.13
and how difficult it was.
00:20:52.16\00:20:53.67
And she would
come to grief recovery
00:20:53.70\00:20:55.65
and really was not doing well
and finally she made a surrender
00:20:55.68\00:20:59.18
and she started
saying her goodbyes
00:20:59.21\00:21:01.24
to her son and her relationship.
00:21:01.27\00:21:03.05
But what she did from
then on is that basically
00:21:03.08\00:21:06.21
she would bring her
neighbors to grief recovery.
00:21:06.24\00:21:08.53
Anyone who would have
a loss in their family,
00:21:08.56\00:21:11.08
anyone at her
church or in her family
00:21:11.11\00:21:13.28
who would have a loss,
her ministry was to say,
00:21:13.31\00:21:16.14
"I want you to come
with me to grief recovery."
00:21:16.17\00:21:18.21
She would pick them up and
bring them and sit with them
00:21:18.24\00:21:20.84
and just love them
through that process
00:21:20.87\00:21:23.20
and that to her was a ministry.
00:21:23.23\00:21:24.85
It was such a
wonderful ministry.
00:21:24.88\00:21:26.61
And every quarter, she
bring someone else back.
00:21:26.64\00:21:29.05
And she would be
sitting there with them
00:21:29.08\00:21:30.45
through that grief
experience, just loving them.
00:21:30.48\00:21:32.57
Amen. Amen. So that
was a win-win situation.
00:21:32.60\00:21:34.85
Yes, that's right. Amen.
00:21:34.88\00:21:36.56
So having a ministry
that you can do together
00:21:36.59\00:21:38.96
is just key to
finding that intimacy together
00:21:38.99\00:21:42.33
and to grow in
together in Christ.
00:21:42.36\00:21:44.67
I think that also attending
worship services together
00:21:44.70\00:21:48.12
is another thing
that you do in order to,
00:21:48.15\00:21:50.97
to build that spirituality
00:21:51.00\00:21:52.56
because there you
worship God together,
00:21:52.59\00:21:54.36
you praise him together,
00:21:54.39\00:21:55.76
you sing the hymns together,
00:21:55.79\00:21:57.16
you can talk about
the sermon together,
00:21:57.19\00:21:58.68
as long as you're talking
positively about it, you know.
00:21:58.71\00:22:01.17
If you go home and
you roast the preacher,
00:22:01.20\00:22:03.39
this does not enhance
spirituality, you know.
00:22:03.42\00:22:05.44
You know, that's good.
00:22:05.47\00:22:07.09
But to talk about
what you have learned today
00:22:07.12\00:22:10.09
and to worship together
00:22:10.12\00:22:11.49
and to enjoy that
experience together
00:22:11.52\00:22:13.22
is another way of
enhancing your spirituality
00:22:13.25\00:22:16.48
together as a couple.
00:22:16.51\00:22:18.60
You know, another
thing that we have
00:22:18.63\00:22:20.70
as a benefit in being married
00:22:20.73\00:22:22.71
is that we can be accountability
partners for one another.
00:22:22.74\00:22:25.64
Yeah, it's so important.
00:22:25.67\00:22:27.04
You know, there are so
many areas in spirituality
00:22:27.07\00:22:29.96
when you say, you know,
00:22:29.99\00:22:31.36
I really want to do
better in this area,
00:22:31.39\00:22:34.07
can you help me with that?
00:22:34.10\00:22:35.53
Or would you
just ask me everyday,
00:22:35.56\00:22:40.74
have you read anything
today from the scripture
00:22:40.77\00:22:43.02
that meant something to you?
00:22:43.05\00:22:44.42
And that's a
reminder that you know
00:22:44.45\00:22:46.69
what I need to be in
God's Word today. That's right.
00:22:46.72\00:22:50.08
And we can serve as
accountability partners
00:22:50.11\00:22:52.60
for one another and...
00:22:52.63\00:22:54.30
There are some
people who want to service
00:22:54.33\00:22:55.70
as an accountability partner
00:22:55.73\00:22:57.10
without their
partner's permission.
00:22:57.13\00:22:59.43
That's not a good plan. No.
00:22:59.46\00:23:01.28
You know if you
haven't invited me and I say,
00:23:01.31\00:23:03.75
"Are you reading
your Bible today?"
00:23:03.78\00:23:05.99
That's not it. No.
00:23:06.02\00:23:07.83
That's not what we
were talking about.
00:23:07.86\00:23:09.23
We are talking about
two people agreeing. Yes.
00:23:09.26\00:23:11.11
This is something I need
help in and you can help me.
00:23:11.14\00:23:13.87
Would you do so by asking me
this question on a daily basis?
00:23:13.90\00:23:17.58
And I found that most people
that really respect each other
00:23:17.61\00:23:20.02
and can trust each
other, you know, they wont--
00:23:20.05\00:23:23.39
they're asking their mate,
00:23:23.42\00:23:25.36
you know, how
can I improve myself?
00:23:25.39\00:23:27.49
Right. You know, where am I?
00:23:27.52\00:23:29.09
How did I do
this time, you know?
00:23:29.12\00:23:30.61
What-- could
you see Jesus in me?
00:23:30.64\00:23:32.40
That's right. And I
mean those are important.
00:23:32.43\00:23:34.38
Have you trust your mate?
00:23:34.41\00:23:35.99
Now your mate has
to be honest enough
00:23:36.02\00:23:37.75
so that you have to
have that relationship,
00:23:37.78\00:23:39.60
so that you're not intimated
00:23:39.63\00:23:41.06
that you can take
the pros with the corns,
00:23:41.09\00:23:43.32
you know, but-- That's right
00:23:43.35\00:23:44.72
That's right and
sometimes that's hard
00:23:44.75\00:23:46.12
because we want to
look good all the time.
00:23:46.15\00:23:48.21
We don't want to
have them one up us
00:23:48.24\00:23:50.22
or anything like that, you know.
00:23:50.25\00:23:52.52
But we need to be
open and honest enough
00:23:52.55\00:23:54.87
that when they say, you know,
00:23:54.90\00:23:57.90
I didn't think that what
you did there was the best,
00:23:57.93\00:24:00.70
that we are willing
to take that. Right.
00:24:00.73\00:24:02.82
And it is not
always easy. No, it's not.
00:24:02.85\00:24:04.53
Men in particular
want to be admired
00:24:04.56\00:24:06.74
and respected by their wife.
00:24:06.77\00:24:08.93
And when she's
sharing something with me,
00:24:08.96\00:24:11.57
where maybe I did
not meet the full goal
00:24:11.60\00:24:16.43
that can be intimidating
to me and it can make me feel
00:24:16.46\00:24:20.02
that I'm being
judged or criticized.
00:24:20.05\00:24:22.13
And so it's a
delegate balance there,
00:24:22.16\00:24:24.58
but we have to
be agreed together.
00:24:24.61\00:24:26.19
It has to be perfect
trust in my heart towards Gayle.
00:24:26.22\00:24:29.78
In order for her
to be able to say,
00:24:29.81\00:24:31.18
Mike, I don't
want to be critical,
00:24:31.21\00:24:33.52
but this is an
area we've talked about
00:24:33.55\00:24:35.43
and maybe that
wasn't the best today,
00:24:35.46\00:24:37.63
what do you think?
00:24:37.66\00:24:39.03
And I think when we are
talking about spirituality
00:24:39.06\00:24:40.67
it needs to be an
invited thing. Invited thing.
00:24:40.70\00:24:43.28
You know, that he has asked me
00:24:43.31\00:24:45.96
to give him feedback
in a certain area. Yes.
00:24:45.99\00:24:48.73
She can volunteer
to do it. I don't know.
00:24:48.76\00:24:51.11
If I'm just saying,
you know I don't like this
00:24:51.14\00:24:52.77
about what you are doing.
00:24:52.80\00:24:54.76
That's not going to
help. It's not constructive.
00:24:54.79\00:24:57.01
And women unfortunately, we
have a reputation for nagging
00:24:57.04\00:25:02.47
and there is nothing
that will breakdown love
00:25:02.50\00:25:05.21
faster than nagging. Yes.
00:25:05.24\00:25:07.41
You know, the husband
just wants to put a wall there
00:25:07.44\00:25:09.74
because I don't
need to hear this. Right.
00:25:09.77\00:25:11.88
And if wives are
looking for their husband
00:25:11.91\00:25:15.36
to be close and open and
want to share spirituality
00:25:15.39\00:25:19.37
then you cannot nag
because that will shut it down
00:25:19.40\00:25:21.99
faster than anything.
00:25:22.02\00:25:23.39
Yeah, nagging will not
only shutdown spirituality,
00:25:23.42\00:25:26.11
but it tends to make a
man feel less of the man. Yes.
00:25:26.14\00:25:29.86
And that's not something you
want either with your husband.
00:25:29.89\00:25:31.86
You want him to be a
man and to feel like that
00:25:31.89\00:25:34.35
that he is God's
man for this house.
00:25:34.38\00:25:37.21
So it has to be an
invited thing, doesn't it?
00:25:37.24\00:25:39.07
Yes, it does.
00:25:39.10\00:25:40.47
It's a delicate situation there,
00:25:40.50\00:25:41.87
you know, but you
got to start some place
00:25:41.90\00:25:44.24
and I think
because of the respect
00:25:44.27\00:25:46.01
and it works itself out.
00:25:46.04\00:25:47.70
You know, but it is
a delicate situation.
00:25:47.73\00:25:50.30
I think also planning
to have family worship
00:25:50.33\00:25:53.38
is another key element
for having the spirituality.
00:25:53.41\00:25:58.39
We have talked about
having in individual worship
00:25:58.42\00:26:00.12
and asking each other,
00:26:00.15\00:26:01.79
but then to have
an opportunity to,
00:26:01.82\00:26:03.91
as a family come
together and to worship.
00:26:03.94\00:26:07.21
And when children are small,
this can be more of a playtime.
00:26:07.24\00:26:10.34
You sing songs, we used to
use the felts with our kids,
00:26:10.37\00:26:13.93
you know, to have
family worship or we would do--
00:26:13.96\00:26:16.52
We used the back of the couches,
00:26:16.55\00:26:17.92
the felt board, you
know-- That's right.
00:26:17.95\00:26:19.90
Or we would play Bible Charades
and the kids really enjoyed that
00:26:19.93\00:26:23.03
as we would act
out a Bible story
00:26:23.06\00:26:24.83
and the other two would
have to guess what it was.
00:26:24.86\00:26:28.19
Man, we're running out of time.
00:26:28.22\00:26:31.43
This is a subject, you know.
00:26:31.46\00:26:34.13
Well, marriage in itself
is just a wonderful subject.
00:26:34.16\00:26:36.35
We've got probably about
60 or 70 seconds left here.
00:26:36.38\00:26:40.93
Wrap this up.
00:26:40.96\00:26:42.45
Spirituality is
essential for our marriages.
00:26:42.48\00:26:45.55
It's absolutely
essential because the only way
00:26:45.58\00:26:47.86
that we can truly
find intimacy together
00:26:47.89\00:26:50.18
is by finding
intimacy with Christ.
00:26:50.21\00:26:52.56
And we do that
by seeking His face,
00:26:52.59\00:26:55.08
by understanding and
accepting the Gospel,
00:26:55.11\00:26:57.24
receiving His
forgiveness for our sins.
00:26:57.27\00:26:59.60
And then sharing
that with each other
00:26:59.63\00:27:01.08
and growing together.
00:27:01.11\00:27:02.48
That's true
spirituality. Amen. Amen.
00:27:02.51\00:27:05.56
Gayle, what do
you think? 30 seconds.
00:27:05.59\00:27:08.18
I think that as we do
that as we seek God's face
00:27:08.21\00:27:10.93
that we need to remember
that He will grant us His Spirit
00:27:10.96\00:27:14.65
and the fruits of that spirit
will shine out in our homes
00:27:14.68\00:27:18.66
and we will feel that
love and joy and peace
00:27:18.69\00:27:21.43
and patience and
all of those things
00:27:21.46\00:27:23.19
that are such a
blessing and the things
00:27:23.22\00:27:25.16
that we would want
in a perfect marriage.
00:27:25.19\00:27:27.68
That's right. Amen.
00:27:27.71\00:27:29.81
This has been a wonderful time.
00:27:29.84\00:27:31.21
I just thank you for being here.
00:27:31.24\00:27:33.67
Pastor Mike, Pastor Gayle,
00:27:33.70\00:27:35.59
and I just want to
thank each one of you.
00:27:35.62\00:27:38.75
We love you here at 3ABN.
00:27:38.78\00:27:40.76
Glad that you were
able to watch us today
00:27:40.79\00:27:42.59
on "Issues and Answers."
00:27:42.62\00:27:44.20
I want you to remember
00:27:44.23\00:27:45.60
the will of God for each
one of us is to rejoice always.
00:27:45.63\00:27:49.30
Pray without ceasing
and give all thanks to Him
00:27:49.33\00:27:53.30
because He is our
Lord and our Savior.
00:27:53.33\00:27:55.32
Amen. That's right.
00:27:55.35\00:27:56.72