I'm J. D. Quinn
with Issues and Answers.
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Welcome. We have a wonderful
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topic that we're going to be
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sharing today and that is
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communication in marriage.
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I like to start it off with
a scripture and I'm taking our
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scripture today from 1 John 1:7:
But if we walk in the light as
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he is in the light we have
fellowship with one another
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and the blood of Jesus his
Son purifies us from all sin.
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Wonderful text. I am so glad to
be able to share this time with
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Pastor Mike and Pastor Gayle
Tucker from Arlington, Texas.
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I know that y'all have a large
church there. How large is the
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church? About 1800 members.
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1800 members! My goodness! And
not only do you man that church,
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but you also are speaker and
director for Faith for Today,
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Right? That's
right. Faith for Today.
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God has really blessed that
ministry and it's 57 year old
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and still growing. My
goodness. So you picked up a
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long-time tradition. Oh
absolutely. And you love it?
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I love it to death. I stand
on the shoulders of William and
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Virginia Fagal and Dan Matthews
and it's kind of hard to go
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wrong from there, isn't it?
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I'll say. And exactly
what do you do, Gayle?
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I am an associate pastor at the
Arlington Adventist Church in
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Arlington, Texas and I take care
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of worship and music and
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women's ministries and children;
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kind of whatever anybody else
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doesn't do is part of my job
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description. So not
only are you a pastor's
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wife but you are also a
credentialed pastor which is
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absolutely wonderful. I
am. It's been a blessing.
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We're also blessed to have
a really wonderful staff of
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pastors at the church and
they work hard and it just works
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together. We're
going to get right into
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our topic today:
Communication in Marriage.
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There's communication and there
is noncommunication. Now I think
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that we may be trying to go into
this left-handed today. We're
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going to talk about maybe the
negative aspects, so this means
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that if we can identify with any
of these particular traits then
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we're doing
something wrong. Is that right?
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You need to take note. Yeah.
The good news is that if indeed
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you have a negative
communication trait this is a
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dynamic factor; it can change.
We have static factors that
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affect our marriage, things that
you cannot change and we have
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dynamic factors. Static
factors would be such as the
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socio-economic level of your
parents. You couldn't affect
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that. Whether or not your
parents stayed together or
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whether they were divorced. That
affects your current marriage.
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Those are static factors. You
can't do anything about it but
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communication cycles and
patterns are dynamic factors and
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we can change those. We
present this material when
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we do marriage seminars and they
say well coming to a marriage
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seminar, why shouldn't you just
give us the positive. What are
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the good things that we ought
to do? Why do we want to look at
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negatives. But the truth is
in America we get married a lot
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you know, but we
don't do marriage very well.
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The University of Denver was
looking at that fact years ago
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and they decided that they would
do a study and they would try to
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find the things that were
good in marriages that stayed
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together. Because their thought
was if we can determine what
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keeps a marriage together,
then we could provide education
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to people and hopefully prevent
some of the divorces that happen
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in America. And that makes sense
Yes that makes sense. But what
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they discovered was something
very different than that
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because when they look at the
marriages that stayed together
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over this 20-year study, they
didn't look alike at all. There
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were many different reasons why
marriages succeed. But what they
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found was that in marriages that
failed there were some very,
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very strong common denominators
and they were all about
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communication and these negative
communication patterns that they
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identified existed in nearly
every marriage that failed.
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So they became strong predictors
for failure in marriage.
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The other thing about it is that
these communication patterns are
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passed down to following
generations, to your children
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and so if these communication
patterns are predictors for
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divorce then in your passing
those to your children, what are
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you doing? You are helping
to ensure that they are going to
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end up in a bad situation,
in a possible divorce situation.
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So we think it's
worth looking at them.
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Also if you have one of these
negative communication patterns
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in your relationship
and you remove that from the
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relationship, you do more to
ensure the long-term stability
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of your marriage than adding
five positive things. So these
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are very powerful tools, they
are. Drs. Stanley and Marcum
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are two of the leaders of the
research there at the University
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of Denver and they've come
up with these. Would you like to
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know what they are? My
goodness, yes. There's four
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of them? Four.
Four negative patterns.
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The first of these negative
patterns is called escalation.
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Escalation occurs when an
argument starts perhaps over
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something small and builds.
It increases in intensity and
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negativity until you're leaving
socks on the floor ends up with
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I'm leaving you. It can
start small and then build to
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something louder and increased
in negativity and ugliness until
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it looks something like this.
We'll just role-play this for
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you, if that's all right. Well
certainly. All right it may look
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like this. You know you left
those dishes in the sink again
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when I asked you to put them
on the side so I can use the
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sink. Well,
yeah, but I thought the
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sink would be a better choice
than the floor where the kids
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left them. Pardon me but
I thought that was a better
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choice. Yes but I
specifically asked you
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to do something and you did
something different after you
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said you would do it.
Floor, sink, floor, sink, it
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sounds like a good idea to me.
I'm sorry but I think that this
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is better Miss Cleanliness
is next to Godliness.
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Oh that's good. Let's do
name calling now, I like that.
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Well okay we can go back
and forth with this if you like.
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I don't know why
I stay around here.
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Well I'm not sure either.
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You see that? Mercy! So it
starts over something small and
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builds and increases in
intensity and negativity until
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we're calling each other names,
we're yelling at each other.
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The issue is dishes on the
floor versus the sink and/or the
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counter and all of a sudden
we're calling each other names.
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A lot of arguments will start
this way. Successful couples
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recognize their propensity to do
this and they exit this early in
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the first 30 to 180 seconds.
They have to recognize, all
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right we do this and then they
have to exit early. So in other
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words if I noticed that we're
starting to do this then my job
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would be to soften my tone and
to become conciliatory and say
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you know maybe I'm over reacting
here or maybe we need to talk
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about this further at a later
time when we're not so emotional
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and then she is to pick up
on that verbal clue and say you
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know you're right. Let's wait
and talk about it sometime later
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and maybe set an appointment
when we talk about it.
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So it's important that
you identify this together and
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realize you know what, we
do this and we want to stop it.
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Because it's hard just because
someone gets a little softer in
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their tone, if you're angry
already that may not help, but
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if you've agreed ahead of
time then maybe you can stop.
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This is how to get
out of this and move on.
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And this is not a situation you
can turn around and send them
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to their room. No. Exactly.
So when do you agree on this as
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a couple? You can
do that right now and
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say you know, we tend to do this
Let's stop this because we're
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killing each other by doing
this. The first one who notices
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we do this become conciliatory,
soften your tone, I'll try to
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match that tone and then we'll
bring it up at a later time and
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try to talk about it in a
civil manner when we're not so
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emotional. And this is called
escalation? That's one of the
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four negative traits.
That's right. The second one.
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The second one is called
invalidation. Invalidation is
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where one in the couple either
subtly or directly puts down the
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other person; puts down their
thoughts, their feelings or
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their character and just
basically says, I don't value
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you. The thing that's difficult
about this is that it happens in
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many different ways. It can be
very, very direct where it goes
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to name calling, you know,
you're just stupid, you never
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get it right, all kinds of
things like that or it can be
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much more subtle. One of the
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ways that women tend to
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invalidate men is by acting
like their husband has no sense,
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particularly when it comes to
things like maybe the children.
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There was a situation
where there were some of us moms
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when I was a young mom and we
we're all going to have a moms'
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night out and the guys
were going to take care of the
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children. So all the guys came
to the church to pick up the
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kids because we all had them
there as a meeting place and
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the father came in and he was
taking the kids away and this
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mom right as he walked
out the door, she's giving him
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instructions all the way like...
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Have them eat supper. Cake and
ice cream is not good supper.
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I know that sweetheart,
we'll take care of it, you know.
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Then the last think she says
is oh and don't let them get run
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over. Glad she
mentioned that because
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he never would
have thought of that.
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There are subtle ways of
invalidating: interrupting.
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We go out to eat with a couple
and I start to tell a story.
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I say, you know last week you
wouldn't believe what happened..
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It was Tuesday actually when
this happened, it was Tuesday.
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Oh it was Tuesday. Well we were
going to the mall and as we were
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walking in just through the
parking lot, we almost got to
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the front door. No,
no, you don't tell this
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right. No what really
happened was... You see?
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I just invalidated her.
She gets quiet and he has taken
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over. So we need to
look at those things.
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Have we invalidated
our spouse in that way?
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Another way that men tend to
invalidate, although women can
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do this too, but this is
more typically a male response;
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If she comes home and wants to
tell me a story about something
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that happened, maybe a problem,
then my typical reaction as a
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man is to try to offer a
solution. But that's not usually
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what a woman wants. What
she wants is empathy, for you to
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listen, not fix. So if I say,
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you know what you need to do is
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She'll say you never listen to
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me. What she wanted was to bond
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with me by telling the emotions
of the story. That's why she
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takes so many details into
the story. You can tell the same
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story in three sentences. She
can take three days to tell it,
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it seems like. But she's getting
all these details so that you
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can experience it with her and
bond with her and when you try
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to short circuit that you
invalidate her saying your story
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is silly, you're silly, let's
fix it and go on. And that's not
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the message you
meant to send at all.
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It can be much more
direct. What about the tickets?
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Oh, let's say that this happens.
I come home and say sweetheart
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I'm sorry but I got a ticket
today. I thought I was going
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the speed limit and he pulled
me over and evidently I wasn't,
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I don't know. You
never learn do you?
00:11:21.01\00:11:23.12
Pardon? Well I
thought I'd learned.
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Well let me tell you how it
works. People who don't speed
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don't get tickets. I
didn't think I was speeding, I
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really thought I
was obeying the law.
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Someday maybe
you'll learn something.
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Pretty ugly isn't it?
00:11:33.38\00:11:35.36
It could get real ugly.
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Real ugly. It can go worse than
that. We don't even like role
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playing this stuff. It feels
uncomfortable. In fact we did
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this in church once and one
of our little parishioners said,
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you guys stink as fighters.
You're really not very good at
00:11:47.46\00:11:50.36
fighting you need to stop and
don't role play because you're
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not good at this. Come to
my house. You'll see some real
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fighting going one. Well
bless your heart you know.
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But invalidating is really just
anything that says to that other
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person, I don't value you. And
it can be very blatant or it can
00:12:02.27\00:12:06.00
be very subtle. The hard thing
about it is sometimes we don't
00:12:06.03\00:12:09.67
realize we're doing it. We can
invalidate the other person and
00:12:09.71\00:12:13.07
think we're just trying to make
them feel good. Oh, don't worry
00:12:13.11\00:12:16.41
about that bad review you got.
Aaah it's not a big deal, I like
00:12:16.45\00:12:19.93
you anyway. And you haven't
listened to the feelings behind
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them. She says you know I'm
frustrated; I'm trying to lose
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weight and I didn't
lose anything. Oh don't worry
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about it, I say, it doesn't
matter you look great. I don't
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like skinny women anyway. Well
you know you've just invalidated
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her. You thought you were
trying to make her feel better
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but that's not how
it came across to her.
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It comes across as either he
doesn't care or he just doesn't
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want to hear it again. You know.
I've heard this too many times.
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I'm just trying to pass it off
so we don't have to talk about
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it. Yeah. It
doesn't matter. Let it
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go. Let it go. I can
imagine that most people
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can certainly identify
with invalidation. I mean, I'm
00:12:52.26\00:12:55.61
sitting over here squirming
in my chair and I thought I'm
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guilty of this. You know I
don't mean to be. My goodness.
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This is where pride
comes in. Absolutely.
00:13:02.88\00:13:06.59
We do it to our children. Often
we forget that we need to turn
00:13:06.62\00:13:10.87
and look them in the eye when
their telling us their little
00:13:10.91\00:13:14.44
story. You know, we need to
validate them and let them know
00:13:14.47\00:13:17.97
that they're
valued and important.
00:13:18.00\00:13:19.58
So this really comes down to
a strong discipline. But if you
00:13:19.61\00:13:23.48
care enough about parenting
and about your relationship,
00:13:23.52\00:13:27.35
then you'll work
harder to make this happen.
00:13:27.39\00:13:30.33
Absolutely. The way to
fix invalidation is through
00:13:30.36\00:13:32.15
validation, and I validate
you by listening to you. By not
00:13:32.18\00:13:35.80
fixing your problems but
by empathizing with you and by
00:13:35.84\00:13:39.39
caring about what you say, by
looking you in the eye when you
00:13:39.42\00:13:43.44
talk to me, by hearing the
emotions behind the words as
00:13:43.48\00:13:47.59
well, by truly caring about
you and by avoiding calling you
00:13:47.62\00:13:51.70
names or making judgment
statements about you. I don't
00:13:51.73\00:13:55.41
need to go there. Instead I
need to be a gentle person who
00:13:55.45\00:13:58.95
lifts you up and ennobles
you and makes you feel good.
00:13:58.98\00:14:02.41
And you could probably summarize
it in the word respect, just
00:14:02.45\00:14:06.03
respect, respect
for that individual.
00:14:06.06\00:14:07.55
And I would imagine though
you sense that you respect but
00:14:07.58\00:14:13.25
there are different degrees
of respect. This is good stuff.
00:14:13.29\00:14:17.72
The third one of these is
called negative interpretations.
00:14:17.76\00:14:22.16
That's when someone says
something but your partner
00:14:22.19\00:14:25.86
interprets it more negatively
that what you've intended.
00:14:25.89\00:14:28.96
Now there's got to be some
degree of mind reading going on
00:14:28.99\00:14:32.36
here and you say this but what
you really mean is... I know
00:14:32.40\00:14:35.84
what you mean is not you've
said. Well the truth is no one
00:14:35.87\00:14:39.24
has the ability to mind read and
if there's much of this going on
00:14:39.28\00:14:43.42
at all in your marriage then
it really is very detrimental to
00:14:43.45\00:14:47.39
the relationship. It much better
to mind read positives rather
00:14:47.42\00:14:51.32
than negatives but we don't
tend to do that. Let me give
00:14:51.36\00:14:54.31
you a little example of what...
You're going to role play.
00:14:54.34\00:14:57.80
Yeah. Please understand this
is role play of what negative
00:14:57.83\00:15:01.22
interpretations might be like.
Sweet heart you know that I know
00:15:01.25\00:15:03.94
that Thanksgiving is coming up
soon. You've got so much on your
00:15:03.97\00:15:06.77
mind, so much you have to do,
let me help this year, let me
00:15:06.81\00:15:08.45
make the candied yams, all right
I can do that and I think it
00:15:08.46\00:15:13.01
would... Well, really? Yeah,
I'd like to try, let me do that.
00:15:13.02\00:15:18.22
Well I always just make them
with the rest of the meal. It's
00:15:18.25\00:15:19.32
not a big deal. Well
I know that and you do a
00:15:19.36\00:15:20.74
great job but I just feel like
maybe I could do something to
00:15:20.77\00:15:23.42
lift the burden
off of you a bit.
00:15:23.45\00:15:25.11
You don't like my
candied yams do you?
00:15:25.15\00:15:27.39
Oh no, that's
not it. I love them.
00:15:27.43\00:15:29.61
No that's it. The more I
think about it and you're always
00:15:29.64\00:15:32.21
saying, Oh do them this way this
year. No do them that way next
00:15:32.24\00:15:34.97
time. You don't like
them. I like them, their great!
00:15:35.01\00:15:37.53
No please, I just wanted
to help. Do you see? How do I
00:15:37.57\00:15:40.06
get out of this?
You've backed yourself into a
00:15:40.09\00:15:43.59
corner. I've backed
myself into a corner
00:15:43.63\00:15:44.94
because she's chosen to
interpret what I said negatively
00:15:44.98\00:15:49.39
I may have had the most pure
intentions, I may have had the
00:15:49.42\00:15:53.80
best idea in mind, but
she's chosen to interpret this
00:15:53.84\00:15:57.82
negatively and no
there's no way for me to win.
00:15:57.85\00:16:00.97
There's no defense for that.
Yeah, there's not. Because it's
00:16:01.01\00:16:03.48
totally the other
person's interpretation.
00:16:03.52\00:16:05.16
When we first got married I did
some of this. Basically Gayle
00:16:05.20\00:16:09.57
did something which hurt me
early on and I told her about
00:16:09.60\00:16:13.73
it and she apologized. I
told her about it again and she
00:16:13.77\00:16:17.88
apologized again. I told
her about it again and about the
00:16:17.91\00:16:21.73
fourth time into this Gayle
is getting tired of this and she
00:16:21.76\00:16:25.72
says Mike you act as though
I did this on purpose. You have
00:16:25.75\00:16:29.23
to understand Gayle grew up in
this home that was so idealic.
00:16:29.26\00:16:32.76
It was like "Father Knows Best"
with God. Remember that old 50s
00:16:32.80\00:16:36.26
sitcom. It was really that
idealic. I on the other hand
00:16:36.30\00:16:39.62
grew up in the "Simpsons". It
was a very different life from
00:16:39.65\00:16:43.61
me. So when she said you act
like I did this on purpose, my
00:16:43.64\00:16:47.82
reaction was yeah. And her
response to me I'll never forget
00:16:47.85\00:16:51.51
she said all right I want you
to understand something. I will
00:16:51.55\00:16:55.68
never intentionally hurt you.
That was a brand new thought to
00:16:55.72\00:16:59.44
me. And we've kind of made
this the theme of our marriage.
00:16:59.48\00:17:03.17
We make our marriage a
safe place. I will never
00:17:03.20\00:17:05.77
intentionally hurt Gayle. In 31
years of marriage, I can promise
00:17:05.81\00:17:10.16
you she has never
once intentionally hurt me.
00:17:10.20\00:17:12.75
Now you know like all of us you
forget or something will slip or
00:17:12.79\00:17:17.93
whatever but she never does this
on purpose. So if indeed she
00:17:17.96\00:17:22.14
does or says something which
hurts me I can look at her and
00:17:22.17\00:17:25.87
say Sweetheart I know you would
not do this on purpose but what
00:17:25.91\00:17:29.45
just happened was painful. How
I interpreted this was... and
00:17:29.48\00:17:33.12
then she can say no that's
not what I meant, or I apologize
00:17:33.16\00:17:36.44
I didn't realize that. Let
me fix it. Let's start over.
00:17:36.48\00:17:39.47
What it does is basically
it makes your marriage a safe
00:17:39.51\00:17:42.95
place and it frees up when
something does happen because
00:17:42.98\00:17:46.38
I trust that Mike didn't
do it to hurt me, he didn't do
00:17:46.41\00:17:49.73
something on purpose to me. Then
I can back up and say okay it
00:17:49.77\00:17:53.33
wasn't on purpose, what really
is going on here. And it only
00:17:53.37\00:17:57.37
works if you make this agreement
then both parties say this is
00:17:57.40\00:18:01.08
what we're going to do. We will
not intentionally... And all of
00:18:01.12\00:18:04.77
us know that it's easy to
intentionally hurt and maybe not
00:18:04.80\00:18:08.87
even admit that you're doing
it, but you know what buttons to
00:18:08.90\00:18:12.52
push and you know your spouse
well enough. Sometimes you can
00:18:12.55\00:18:16.66
do it and act like you didn't
really mean to do it, but we
00:18:16.69\00:18:20.73
have to make that agreement and
that commitment that says never
00:18:20.76\00:18:24.59
will I intentionally do
something to injure my spouse.
00:18:24.62\00:18:28.24
That's right. What a covenant
though. That's a wonderful
00:18:28.27\00:18:31.82
covenant. It is. We choose to
make our home a safe place and I
00:18:31.86\00:18:35.82
choose to interpret what Gayle
says and does positively. I ask
00:18:35.86\00:18:39.66
myself. Is there another way to
interpret this? And if there is,
00:18:39.69\00:18:43.86
and you know there always is,
I'm going to choose to interpret
00:18:43.89\00:18:48.02
it positively. If I feel
pain I'll express it to her and
00:18:48.05\00:18:50.83
she'll help me make it right.
00:18:50.87\00:18:52.25
Because I know that Satan
is just looking for, he's just
00:18:52.29\00:18:54.98
lingering to find a way to plant
some doubt in there. Well this
00:18:55.01\00:18:58.89
time it's a little bit
different. But if you've made
00:18:58.92\00:19:01.42
this covenant, I mean...
00:19:01.45\00:19:03.68
She's going to keep
it, I'm going to keep it.
00:19:03.71\00:19:05.95
And then you can at least
ask the question, where is this
00:19:05.99\00:19:09.26
coming from? What's going
on here? And it's really very
00:19:09.30\00:19:12.54
freeing. Yes it is. Wonderful.
00:19:12.57\00:19:15.27
This takes us to our
last negative pattern.
00:19:15.30\00:19:18.88
The last one is called... Do we
have to talk about this. I don't
00:19:18.92\00:19:21.80
want to talk about it. Well it's
the last one. No I don't want to
00:19:21.83\00:19:24.44
avoidance and withdrawal.
I'm just kind of tired right now
00:19:24.47\00:19:27.04
and you cannot avoid
or withdraw from this.
00:19:27.08\00:19:29.09
You see what we're doing?
00:19:29.12\00:19:30.66
Avoidance and withdrawal.
Basically this is when a party
00:19:30.70\00:19:35.45
recognizes that there's going
to be an issue come up that they
00:19:35.49\00:19:38.54
really don't want to talk about.
It's a little bit too heated for
00:19:38.57\00:19:41.89
them. Maybe they feel guilt over
it or whatever it happens to be
00:19:41.93\00:19:45.22
and they withdraw from the
situation. And you can withdraw
00:19:45.25\00:19:48.82
in a variety of ways. You can
withdraw by leaving the room.
00:19:48.86\00:19:52.48
I'm out of here, I'm not talking
about this. You can withdraw
00:19:52.52\00:19:55.94
by just getting quiet, just clam
up, I'm not talking any more.
00:19:55.98\00:19:59.62
I tend to be guilty of that.
You know I don't want to talk
00:19:59.65\00:20:03.26
about this, this
is too hot for me.
00:20:03.30\00:20:04.68
Her lips get thin and
white and she gets really quiet.
00:20:04.72\00:20:06.80
I hope it will go away. But
you know it doesn't go away.
00:20:06.83\00:20:08.84
You can also withdraw in other
ways that might not be as easy
00:20:08.88\00:20:13.23
to recognize. One way is to
explode in anger, just blow up.
00:20:13.26\00:20:16.64
And you don't think of that as
withdrawing, you think of that
00:20:16.68\00:20:20.29
as aggressive. But when you
think about it, if I explode all
00:20:20.32\00:20:23.35
over the place that pretty much
stops the conversation, doesn't
00:20:23.39\00:20:26.88
it? Sure does. So that's another
way to withdraw and we tend to
00:20:26.92\00:20:30.94
have withdrawers and pursuers
in marriages. We're usually one
00:20:30.97\00:20:34.96
or the other. Sometimes,
depending on what the issue is,
00:20:34.99\00:20:38.88
we can trade back and forth.
Some things we'll withdraw on
00:20:38.91\00:20:42.85
and in others we want to pursue.
Now the avoider is even more
00:20:42.88\00:20:47.17
adept, because this person just
seems to have a sixth sense and
00:20:47.21\00:20:50.67
they know when something is
going to come up that they don't
00:20:50.71\00:20:54.13
want to talk about and
they just avoid it all together.
00:20:54.17\00:20:56.50
Hey, let's go out to eat. Let's
grab the kids, let's get out of
00:20:56.53\00:20:58.40
here. Hey it's going to be a
great day, let's go out to the
00:20:58.43\00:21:00.26
park, whatever.
Yeah, anything to keep the
00:21:00.29\00:21:03.00
conversation from every
happening or they stay late at
00:21:03.03\00:21:06.20
work. If I don't come home from
work, you know she's already
00:21:06.23\00:21:08.85
asleep in bed, then I don't have
to talk about it. But they avoid
00:21:08.89\00:21:12.47
the issues. And the reason
that this is so dangerous and so
00:21:12.51\00:21:16.43
damaging is because it allows
the things between us to just
00:21:16.46\00:21:19.93
pile up, and pile up, and pile
up and they're never dealt with.
00:21:19.96\00:21:24.02
And they will cause separation.
They can cause a separation that
00:21:24.05\00:21:28.10
is actual divorce or they can
just cause a separation that's
00:21:28.13\00:21:32.14
a wall within your
home that stays there.
00:21:32.17\00:21:34.20
It's just like you can start
over again and then just repeat
00:21:34.23\00:21:38.03
the same thing again.
Absolutely. It's a delicate
00:21:38.07\00:21:40.70
dance that is a cycle that keeps
going and going. Basically the
00:21:40.73\00:21:44.00
person who's pursuing is not
wanting to fight, they want the
00:21:44.04\00:21:47.42
intimacy that comes when you
resolve a relationship issue.
00:21:47.46\00:21:50.94
The avoider and withdrawer
is not avoiding or withdrawing
00:21:50.97\00:21:54.38
from the spouse. They're looking
for peace. Can't we just all get
00:21:54.42\00:21:57.86
along? Let's just be happy.
That's Gayle's mantra. Can't we
00:21:57.90\00:22:01.38
just all be happy, can't we just
be happy. So that's what they're
00:22:01.41\00:22:04.66
looking for is peace. What we
have to do to fix this though is
00:22:04.70\00:22:07.91
the pursuer has to agree to
pursue less. The avoider and
00:22:07.94\00:22:11.96
withdrawer avoid and withdraw
less and to say let's find a
00:22:11.99\00:22:15.93
time and talk about this so that
it actually happens. Usually we
00:22:15.97\00:22:19.69
find that the best thing to
do is if you have an issue is to
00:22:19.73\00:22:23.41
say Mike I'd like to talk
about X, when's a good time?
00:22:23.45\00:22:26.76
Now I can say second Tuesday of
next week but that's not fair.
00:22:26.79\00:22:31.28
Basically I have to, with Gayle,
set a time within the next 24
00:22:31.32\00:22:35.29
hours when we will set down and
talk about this. What this does
00:22:35.33\00:22:39.27
is it makes the avoider and
withdrawer feel less trapped.
00:22:39.30\00:22:42.53
And it gives peace to the
pursuer knowing we will talk
00:22:42.57\00:22:45.72
about this. We're going to keep
this appointment. We will talk
00:22:45.76\00:22:48.00
about it. Often a
person is a withdrawer
00:22:48.03\00:22:50.86
because they feel like they
can't bring the argument forth
00:22:50.89\00:22:54.00
quick enough and they're going
to lose if they get blindsided.
00:22:54.04\00:22:57.72
So if you can say to that person
all right here's what I really
00:22:57.75\00:23:01.47
need to talk to you about,
but can we set a time, then they
00:23:01.50\00:23:05.20
can think about it and they can
deal with it more rationally.
00:23:05.24\00:23:09.70
That's true for me. If I know
that I can sit and think about
00:23:09.73\00:23:13.06
something first and then we'll
sit down and talk about it.
00:23:13.09\00:23:16.66
I do much better than if I'm
blind-sided by an issue because
00:23:16.70\00:23:20.24
Mike can out-talk me any time
and he can out-think me but if
00:23:20.27\00:23:23.78
I have time then I can come up
with some pretty good arguments
00:23:23.81\00:23:27.06
on my own. So it helps to
be able to just say okay, we're
00:23:27.09\00:23:30.98
going to set this aside now but
we are going to talk about it
00:23:31.02\00:23:34.87
and have a certain time.
00:23:34.91\00:23:35.88
Those are the four negative
patterns. If you have those in
00:23:35.89\00:23:38.93
your relationship and you
remove them you really do a lot
00:23:38.96\00:23:41.99
to ensure the long-term
stability of the relationship.
00:23:42.03\00:23:44.99
I think what I understood you to
say earlier, Pastor, that if we
00:23:45.02\00:23:47.49
can just remove one of these...
00:23:47.52\00:23:49.25
Yes, it does more to ensure
the long-term stability of your
00:23:49.28\00:23:53.28
marriage than
adding five positives.
00:23:53.32\00:23:54.61
In other words, I could bring
mama candy, I could bring her
00:23:54.65\00:23:57.53
flowers, I could bring her
something nice, take her to a
00:23:57.57\00:24:00.40
something that she'll
appreciate but it's doing nearly
00:24:00.44\00:24:03.24
as good as removing
one of these. That's right.
00:24:03.28\00:24:05.41
Because you're sending mixed
messages. You got me flowers
00:24:05.44\00:24:09.21
today but the way you talked
to me last night? So if you can
00:24:09.24\00:24:12.98
remove that undercurrent
of negative and then bring the
00:24:13.13\00:24:15.90
flowers then you've hit a home
run. But you've got to remove
00:24:15.94\00:24:19.42
the negative undercurrent
otherwise we send them mixed
00:24:19.45\00:24:21.71
messages. Now the thing we have
not done yet is decide how we
00:24:21.75\00:24:25.69
can solve problems. Basically
the way to do that is when you
00:24:25.72\00:24:29.39
set the appointment you sit down
with each other. I suggest you
00:24:29.42\00:24:33.05
hold something in your
hand, usually something soft.
00:24:33.09\00:24:35.42
The person holding this object
has the floor and they have the
00:24:35.45\00:24:38.56
floor until they make one or
two points and they make their
00:24:38.60\00:24:42.87
point like this: When you
do X in Y situation, I feel Z.
00:24:42.90\00:24:47.11
Gayle might say to me, Mike when
you leave the dishes in the sink
00:24:47.14\00:24:52.11
when I've asked you to leave
them on the counter I feel like
00:24:52.15\00:24:54.30
I'm your maid. My job as the
listener then is I can't argue
00:24:54.31\00:24:57.62
with her, can't disagree. I just
simply acknowledge what she's
00:24:57.66\00:25:00.97
said. I have to repeat it back
to her so she knows. We do this
00:25:01.01\00:25:04.04
until we make points back and
forth till all the points have
00:25:04.07\00:25:06.95
been made and then we say all
right, now we understand each
00:25:06.99\00:25:09.87
other. Let's make a list of
possible solutions to this issue
00:25:09.90\00:25:13.78
We brainstorm together, we
choose a solution, we sign it,
00:25:13.82\00:25:17.45
we say this is what we're going
to do and we move on. We have
00:25:17.48\00:25:21.08
become a team now solving
this problem rather than...
00:25:21.11\00:25:24.54
Our friends Mike and
Brenda Aufderhauer say when the
00:25:24.58\00:25:27.94
problem is here every time I
look at the problem I see you.
00:25:27.97\00:25:31.25
But what this does is it puts
the problem out here and now
00:25:31.28\00:25:34.72
we're a team solving this
problem and it's not us, it's
00:25:34.75\00:25:38.15
just a problem and
we're working on it.
00:25:38.19\00:25:40.32
So it's a good model. It's an
opportunity to have some rules
00:25:40.35\00:25:43.71
not to talk over each other
and not to judge each other, but
00:25:43.75\00:25:47.08
truly to listen and to
demonstrate we're listening
00:25:47.11\00:25:49.65
by repeating back
what we say to one another.
00:25:49.68\00:25:51.69
This is absolutely fantastic.
We're running out of time so
00:25:51.73\00:25:54.99
fast I just can't believe.
Whenever you get involved with
00:25:55.03\00:25:58.71
everyday matters, especially
with communication, things just
00:25:58.74\00:26:02.00
happen. Why don't we review
quickly. We're talking about
00:26:02.03\00:26:04.83
the negative sides and then
let's look at the positive side
00:26:04.87\00:26:07.64
real quick. The
negative communication
00:26:07.67\00:26:09.96
patterns are escalation,
invalidation, negative
00:26:09.99\00:26:13.50
interpretations and avoidance
and withdrawal. If we can
00:26:13.53\00:26:16.56
identify that we do those
things and remove them from the
00:26:16.60\00:26:19.99
relationship, we go miles toward
making sure that we have a
00:26:20.03\00:26:23.83
stable, happy relationship.
Then when we solve problems, we
00:26:23.87\00:26:26.89
actually do this as a team,
putting the problem out here,
00:26:26.92\00:26:29.91
brainstorming together
and listening to each other
00:26:29.94\00:26:33.02
therefore,
validating one another.
00:26:33.05\00:26:34.64
I'll tell you, this is
absolutely wonderful stuff.
00:26:34.68\00:26:37.23
Anything else that you
might want to add quickly?
00:26:37.27\00:26:39.75
I think that we actually have
to live in a relationship of
00:26:39.79\00:26:43.17
genuine concern and tenderness
for one another; that my
00:26:43.21\00:26:46.53
communication with Gayle has to
be tender and open and loving.
00:26:46.56\00:26:50.59
I have to communicate
that to her through my words.
00:26:50.63\00:26:53.16
I think we have to hold in our
hearts and minds all the time
00:26:53.20\00:26:56.32
the fact that this is a person
that God placed in my life.
00:26:56.36\00:26:59.41
This person is a gift to me and
I don't ever want to break it or
00:26:59.44\00:27:03.40
injure it in any way. I think
that that is the thing that will
00:27:03.43\00:27:07.35
keep us together. As a
husband, it's my job to
00:27:07.39\00:27:09.64
make sure that Gayle is safe
so that she has the opportunity
00:27:09.67\00:27:12.52
to flourish and to grow to
be all that God wants her to be.
00:27:12.56\00:27:15.34
Then my life benefits from that.
I find richness in my life when
00:27:15.38\00:27:19.89
she becomes God's woman and if
I treat God's woman right, God
00:27:19.92\00:27:23.40
gives me an additional gift and
that is closeness to her that I
00:27:23.43\00:27:26.88
can never have otherwise.
00:27:26.91\00:27:28.21
So obviously this is a
win/win situation. Absolutely
00:27:28.24\00:27:31.41
Isn't this wonderful to
hear this type of success story.
00:27:31.45\00:27:34.55
You know I mean seeing a husband
and wife you can just see that
00:27:34.58\00:27:36.34
they love each other, you can
see that they respect each other
00:27:36.37\00:27:41.38
I just want you to stay tuned.
We're going to our next program
00:27:41.41\00:27:46.38
and everything is going to
deal with the spirituality in
00:27:46.42\00:27:48.43
marriage. This was absolutely
special. We look forward to the
00:27:48.47\00:27:52.10
next one. Until then just want
you to remember that God loves
00:27:52.13\00:27:55.73
you and so do we.
00:27:55.76\00:28:00.87