Participants: J.D. Quinn (Host), Mike and Gayle Tucker
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000262
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00:29 Welcome to Issues and Answers.
00:31 We have a wonderful program. 00:33 today. We have a special couple 00:35 here. We're going to talk about 00:36 something that I guess pertains 00:38 to most everybody and that is 00:40 Date with a Mate in Mind. I always like to start off 00:45 with a scripture. Today's scripture comes from 00:47 Amos 3:3: Do two walk together unless they have agreed to do 00:52 so. I want to introduce you to my friends. Why I'm saying my 00:57 friends is because we have a Texas boy here and we have an 01:00 Oklahoma girl. Now the ones from Texas would understand what 01:04 we're saying here because she came across the Red River. 01:08 This is Pastor and Pastor Mike and Gayle Tucker. Welcome to 01:12 Issues and Answers. That you very much. 01:14 It's a joy to be here. Well thank you for being here. 01:17 I would like to start off by you just telling us a little bit 01:20 about each one of yourselves before we go into talking about 01:22 finding that special date. 01:24 You bet. Well, I pastor in Arlington, Texas but I'm also 01:28 speaker/director for Faith for Today and Gail and I have been 01:33 pastoring together there for about 14-1/2 year now. 01:37 And we really enjoy getting to work together. It's a blessing. 01:40 We've been married for 31 years 01:42 and (she was 12 when I married 01:44 her.) That's right. I was very 01:46 young of course. We have two 01:48 daughters. They are grown so we 01:49 are empty nesters now. But we really are blessed to be at the 01:54 Arlington church. It's a large church of almost 1,800 members 01:58 so it keeps us busy. 02:00 For the ones that are not familiar with the Arlington 02:04 church, that's in the metroplex. When we talk metroplex we're 02:07 talking about the Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas area. 02:09 That's right, right between Dallas and Ft. Worth. 02:11 Yes and I think that as well as I understand the Dallas Cowboys 02:14 are going to be in your back yard there. 02:16 Yeah, they'll be in our back yard there, that's right, right. 02:19 So being that I'm from Texas you know I've just always been a 02:21 Dallas Cowboys fan. But that's not what we're here to talk 02:25 about today. No. We're here to talk about Date with a Mate in 02:30 Mind. Now being that the two of you talk in your seminars 02:35 with the youth and singles you certainly are talking about the 02:39 Issues of dating. So what are some of the things that you 02:42 tell these young Christian's about dating? 02:45 Well the first thing is to remember what the purpose of 02:47 dating is. Ultimately it is mate selection. Now there are other 02:51 purposes along with that, having fun and knowing how to 02:54 interact with the opposite sex, but ultimately this is the way 02:57 that we choose a mate; at least it has been in the western world 03:00 for about the last 100-120 years. So it's a rather recent 03:04 sociological phenomenon. It's probably not a very efficient 03:07 way of finding a mate, but if this is what we're stuck with 03:11 we need to find a way to do it well. And with that in mind, 03:15 we've kind of written 10 laws of dating. When we share these 03:19 with young people, it's amazing the response we get. But I also 03:23 find that people who have been singled maybe in their 40s or 03:26 50s or 60, when they follow these same laws they keep 03:30 themselves out of trouble. But anyway if you'd like we can 03:34 start with the laws. You want to do that. 03:36 I'd like to start there. 03:37 Well what we really discover is that people need to think ahead 03:40 of time. You need to make some decisions before you ever start 03:43 dating about what it's going to be like and what your boundaries 03:47 are and that sort of thing. So the very first thing is if it's 03:50 not easy and it's not fun, break up. 03:53 Amen. That's simple isn't it? 03:56 It really is because basically if you're struggling with 03:59 someone to make this thing work... I've had couples come 04:02 to me and say we've been dating now for six months and we've 04:04 really struggled to make this relationship work, would you 04:08 help us? And my answer is No! Break up. You've discovered that 04:11 it's difficult to be in relationship with each other. 04:13 So find someone with whom it's easy to have a relationship and 04:16 date them. But don't date each other. You can be friends but 04:20 don't date each other because that might lead to marriage and 04:23 then in marriage, if you're really struggling to make this 04:26 thing work you consume a lot of energy that could be spent 04:30 creatively elsewhere. So don't do that. Instead break up and 04:34 move on. And I think this tends to be 04:35 particularly true the younger you are. You know if you're 04:39 talking teenagers and high school and you're struggling 04:42 you know why? There's really no point in that. You've already 04:46 proven that it's not a good relationship so you know let it 04:50 go. Don't be too serious. 04:52 Find someone else with whom it's easy to have a relationship, 04:55 because dating should be easy. And really marriage should be 04:58 that way too. Now we know that at times it's not. Sometimes 05:01 there are things you have to work through, but that's a 05:03 committed relationship where the issues need to be worked through 05:08 but in dating that's not it. By definition it is an uncommitted 05:12 relationship and so if it's difficult, move on. 05:15 That second law is to date only from that circle of people you'd 05:19 consider marrying. Now there should be certain nonnegotiables 05:23 that you have, that you choose for a mate and among those, if 05:27 you're a committed Christian, you need a committed Christian 05:30 of about the same level of commitment. If one is really 05:34 committed and the other is not then basically that's being 05:37 unequally yoked together. So you need to have some of those basic 05:41 nonnegotiables, maybe someone who doesn't beat you; that would 05:45 be a nonnegotiable, I would think, you know. Someone who 05:48 you know you know you can trust, is not going to sleep around on 05:50 you. Basically you date from that group of people who would 05:54 potentially be a future mate. 05:57 And I think in this regard, you also have to think about what is 06:01 your spiritual commitment. Do you belong to the same 06:05 denomination? Do you see things the same spiritually? Do they 06:09 have the same type of habits that you do? Is this a person 06:13 who drinks or parties and that's not what you want? You know, you 06:17 have to make those decisions. 06:18 So your value system needs to be similar, yeah. 06:21 That's right. Because if you fall in love with a person, you 06:24 may think well I know I'm not going to marry them, but you're 06:28 running a risk of possibly falling in love with someone and 06:31 then you've got trouble. 06:33 By the way, one of the characteristics of love, 06:35 romantic love, is an ecstatic loss of judgment and so if 06:39 indeed you've fallen in love with someone who was not from 06:42 that circle of people who you might consider as a marriage 06:45 partner you run the risk of marrying someone that if you 06:49 had not lost your judgment you would never have dated, never 06:53 have married. So it's better not to start. Stay within that 06:56 group. I know that my mother preached 06:58 at me, well now I have a brother and sister also, don't go out 07:02 and date someone that you wouldn't think about marrying. 07:05 She was right. You know that was good advice. Of course, now I 07:08 realize. Of course back then we all wanted to do our own thing. 07:11 That's exactly right. But anyway that's law number two 07:16 Okay. Law number 3: If they use, abuse alcohol, prescription 07:20 medications, illegal drugs or mind-altering substances of any 07:25 kind, break up. You would agree with that? 07:29 Most certainly. Okay and a part of that is 07:32 because this is a value system but also over and over again 07:37 we've seen how an addiction to substances becomes the most 07:41 important lover in your life. You begin to choose that 07:45 substance over the people that you should be choosing in your 07:48 life. But there's another reason for this. The day someone starts 07:52 using and especially abusing substances that's the day their 07:56 emotional maturity stops. If you're 16 that day you start 08:00 using and you stop using when you're 38, chronologically you 08:05 are 38, emotionally you're 16. 08:08 I hope that everybody's listening to that right there. 08:10 It's so true. So if you marry someone thinking you're marrying 08:13 someone who's 28 when emotionally they're 16 you don't 08:18 want to marry somebody that you're married to. You want to 08:21 marry someone who has the maturity, the emotional maturity 08:25 So I guess that what you're saying is that it's very 08:28 important and people should not hesitate to find out a little 08:31 bit of history about someone because a lot of people may 08:35 think that they're past that but they need to just go back. 08:39 Oh yes, I did some recreational drugs or I might have been in a 08:43 party scene. That's something important to find out. 08:44 It is important to find out and then to find out what level of 08:48 recovery they've experienced. Because you know the Lord heals 08:51 and it's true that not everyone that has used in the past will 08:54 use in the future, but it's still something important to 08:57 know and certainly if they're doing this now this is something 09:00 you need to distance yourself some. Some people say will how 09:04 can I witness to them if I break up with them? And the truth is 09:09 that evangelism by dating is a very poor form of evangelism. 09:13 It never works. You instead become codependent, you become 09:17 a rescuer and that's unhealthy in the relationship. 09:20 It's an area where people tend to make excuses sometimes 09:23 because they want the relationship so badly that they 09:27 will look at it and say, no it's really okay. I know this exists 09:32 but we're going to make it through this. It's going to be 09:35 okay. I talked to a gentleman one time and he knew that the 09:39 person he was dating was an alcoholic. Somehow 09:43 the conversation turned to drinking and driving and he said 09:48 You know really she does well with that. He said, actually she 09:52 drives better than most people do when they're not drunk. 09:56 And I said, did you hear what you just said; that's not 10:00 possible. But he wanted the relationship so badly that he 10:05 was willing to make excuses and to place himself and her in a 10:09 very bad situation, because it doesn't help her, it doesn't 10:13 help him. Which brings us to law number 4 10:16 which I think is kind of a related law because it goes hand 10:20 in hand very often with drinking and substance abuse and that 10:24 is if either party needs to rescue, fix, or change or to be 10:28 rescued, fixed or changed, break up. Now that doesn't just occur 10:33 in situations of substance abuse Other people are rescuers or 10:39 fixers or changers without the 10:42 substances but it's an unhealthy way to love. We're talking about 10:46 codependency here; needing to be rescued or to rescue and if 10:50 that's occurring in the relationship, it's time to break 10:53 up and fix yourself. Get some help so that you don't fall back 10:57 into that sort of relationship. It's a sick love. 10:59 I know I've experienced some friends like that. They are 11:03 rescuers and bless their little 11:05 hearts, you know, their heart 11:07 was good. In fact most of the 11:08 time their heart is more precious than most people 11:11 but they always get themselves caught in a bind because of 11:16 rescuing, you know. Then they felt committed, then you spend 11:20 time, then there's that guilt that you have to overcome to 11:23 get past there because you've committed and they need you 11:25 then that's that codependency that you're talking about. 11:29 It's an area where it's easy for you to be pressured, 11:32 especially if you're thinking in terms of spiritual rescuing. 11:36 There are a lot of young women especially who think, oh I know 11:41 that he'll learn to love the Lord if I just stay with him and 11:46 I'm going to be his savior in a way. And it happens where he 11:51 puts the pressure on where he says you know I'm never going 11:54 to go to heaven if you don't stay with me; you've got to stay 11:58 with me. A lot of them use suicide. 12:00 I'll kill myself. You bet. What kind of a relationship is 12:05 that if you have to beg someone or I'll kill myself or I'm not 12:09 going to heaven without you. That's putting too much pressure 12:13 on a person. It's just an extremely unhealthy 12:16 relationship to be in. So how would you handle that? 12:18 Basically it's time to break up and then you begin to ask some 12:22 questions of yourself. What made me vulnerable to that kind of 12:26 relationship. Is this a pattern that I've repeated in my life? 12:30 And if so, maybe I need to seek some help so that I can love in 12:34 a healthy way rather than in an unhealthy way. 12:37 Because a lot of people get caught in that squirrel cage 12:39 don't they? You know they just repeat, repeat, repeat. They'll 12:43 continue to be a rescuer. 12:45 That's why second marriages fail at an alarmingly higher 12:48 rate than do first marriages. We repeat the same mistakes. 12:52 So someone says I'll never do that again. Well typically they 12:56 do and so second marriages and third marriages fail at an even 13:00 higher rate unless you identify what it was about me that caused 13:04 this relationship to fail. Not just my partner but me, so that 13:08 that can be fixed in me and I can move on to a healthy form of 13:12 love. I think that once you've 13:14 realized that you can't be the rescuer, you can't be the 13:16 savior, I think it's important then to say will how can I help 13:20 that individual and to funnel them to someone who can help 13:24 them because a dating relationship is not the place 13:27 for the help. And I think that's a very valid 13:30 point right there because people don't know what to do and 13:33 especially if they're young so then they get caught. So repeat 13:37 that. So they need then to turn that person to someone that's 13:41 more mature that they explain this so that there's an exit 13:44 strategy there that they can get out and go ahead with their 13:47 life. I actually had this happen when 13:50 I was a young person. There was a young man that I was dating 13:54 and he was just struggling with different things, alcohol and 13:58 things and I said you know I can't do that. But I had a 14:02 little bit of the rescuer in me you know and I was worried well 14:06 who's going to help, he's not going to go to heaven. But I had 14:10 a conversation with him finally. I said I cannot do this. 14:13 It's not going to work but there's this coach over here 14:16 and I know that he loves you and he can help you. So sometimes 14:22 you've just got to think about how can I help them and realize 14:26 that dating is not the way but there are people that can help. 14:29 Well I just know that the Holy Spirit is impressing me right 14:32 now that people out there need to hear that, that there is a 14:35 coach over there. You know, pass that baton over to them. They're 14:40 more mature and they can help them and you can be helped at 14:44 the same time. I just think that's so important because I 14:47 feel like a lot of people get trapped out there, at least they 14:50 feel like they do. He was a wonderful young man 14:53 and today he's strong in the Lord. 14:59 The other problem with this is that sometimes when you refer 15:03 them on that person will tank. They'll hit bottom and then you 15:06 begin to feel guilty. That is another symptom of the 15:09 codependent relationship that you've been in because the 15:12 decision was the other individuals who hit bottom; 15:14 it was their choice and not your responsibility, not your 15:17 fault so we need to identify that as false guilt and get rid 15:20 of it and move on. Are you ready for law number 5? 15:24 You bet man. This is good stuff. 15:26 Law number 5 says that if either party tends to control, dominate 15:32 or isolate the other party from friends or family, break up. 15:35 When you are in a situation where you realize you know I 15:39 haven't seen my family for a while. He never seems to want 15:43 to go there. He doesn't like my friends or she doesn't want me 15:47 to be with the people I've always loved. It's a red flag. 15:52 What's going on here? 15:53 I know that we just experienced up in our department a friend of 15:57 a friend that got engaged and then all of a sudden once they 16:02 got the engagement then all of a sudden the other party wanted 16:05 well we can't be around your parents. I want you to come over 16:09 here. You know there's that separation thing. Well boy the 16:12 red flag went up then and so within two weeks that 16:16 relationship was over. Thank goodness that she was bright 16:19 enough and that she was healthy enough to see that flag and get 16:23 out of it. I think that's key is having a 16:26 healthy spiritual life and a healthy outlook so that you do 16:29 recognize those things. 16:30 It is true that another symptom of romantic love is the desire 16:34 for exclusivity, you know, just the two of us, but when that 16:37 comes to the point where I'm going to keep her away from her 16:40 away from her family or her from her friends and I'm really 16:42 beginning to control his environment, that's extremely 16:45 unhealthy. Our solution to this is, first of all, break up and 16:50 some people say well when do you work out your love problems? 16:54 You work them out when you're not dating. Within in the dating 16:57 context this is not a good place to begin to work out your 17:01 problems. Stop dating, get help, get yourself straight, then 17:05 enter back into the dating relationship. But dating 17:08 actually confuses the process of your getting help and getting 17:13 "fixed" emotionally and spiritually. So it's usually 17:16 better to stop the dating process, put it on hold and say 17:19 all right, what led me into this and how do I need to fix this? 17:22 Boy this is something that you'd think ought to be taught 17:25 early in school because... 17:28 And marriage is a kind of on-the-job training kind of a 17:34 thing and it shouldn't be that way. We should learn beforehand 17:38 what our patterns are, what we're looking for in someone 17:41 else and that's what dating can accomplish but even then I think 17:45 we have to approach dating in a healthy way. 17:47 If you're going to make the biggest decision of your life 17:51 next to following Jesus Christ through this dating process, 17:54 you probably ought to have a plan in mind. You ought to know 17:57 where you're going and how you're going to get there and 18:00 that means there have got to be some guidelines or if you don't 18:02 have a direct course, you're going to end up who knows 18:06 where and that's not the kind of thing you want for a 18:09 marriage. No, no, you know there's a road 18:14 block before you ever get started. My goodness. 18:17 That's true. Well law number 5 is important but 5 is important 18:23 because it is a prelude to number 6. Where there is 18:26 controlling behavior very often then we get to number 6 and that 18:29 is if they are physically or verbally abusive, break up. 18:33 Usually in relationship that starts with control and then it 18:37 goes to physical or verbal abuse and anytime someone hits 18:41 anytime someone is verbally abusive, anytime they are 18:45 emotionally or spiritually abusive, you've got to get out 18:49 of this relationship. And how many times have we heard people 18:52 say well you know it really wasn't his fault, I made him 18:55 angry. Yeah, if I only had just stopped, if I hadn't done this 18:59 he wouldn't have hit or he wouldn't have what it happens 19:03 to be. That's the rationalization of a victim. 19:05 That is victim thinking. And when you find a person who is in 19:09 a marriage or a long-term dating relationship who is making 19:13 excuses for their partner who hits them or who verbally 19:17 abuses them they have taken on the victim mentality and it's a 19:20 very deadly form of thinking, something that's difficult to 19:24 break out of because we begin to excuse, we make excuses for, 19:28 we assume the guilt and the blame ourselves. That's victim 19:32 mentality and it's extremely unhealthy. 19:34 The sad thing today is how many young people there are that are 19:39 in dating relationships in high school or even junior high where 19:44 they are experiencing physical abuse from a boyfriend, a 19:47 girlfriend and they think it's just the way it is. 19:51 Statistics are alarming as to how many high school kids are 19:55 abused physically, even sexually and certainly verbally and 19:59 emotionally in a dating relationship and think that this 20:03 is okay or they stay with it for some reason. 20:06 So this is across cultural lines then? 20:08 Absolutely, absolutely. It's a sad situation. 20:12 It is a very sad situation and it's a very dangerous situation 20:16 because sometimes that controlling and then abusive 20:19 behavior can lead to something very, very serious. There are 20:23 men and woman who die every year as a result of this. You have 20:28 to be somewhat mentally unstable to be that kind of a controller 20:33 Certainly there is a lot of self doubt, there's a lot of 20:37 insecurity on the part of the controller and that's just a 20:40 very unstable situation in which to find yourself. 20:44 Some people say well he only hit me once. The truth is he will 20:50 hit, he has hit, he will hit again, don't kid yourself. 20:55 Don't think well I'll be better next time and this will be all 21:00 right. Break up. Let him get help or her get help and then 21:04 let them move on. But this is a hitter, because they have hit, 21:09 hitters hit. So move on at that point. 21:11 Do you find out that that might be learned behavior? 21:15 Oh yes. It usually is. Almost always. They have probably 21:19 experienced that themselves or at least witnessed it. They've 21:23 seen that as a way to get your way, to control the situation. 21:27 And at the very least you know you mentioned that sometimes 21:30 it leads even to death and things like that. At the very 21:34 least it's always going to lead to a loss of self-worth in the 21:38 person who's experiencing that in the victim and they begin to 21:43 see the world in a very unreal way that they are not worthy of 21:47 anything and I deserve this. They pass that on; you know in 21:51 a marriage relationship it passes on to children. The far 21:54 reaching effects are amazing. 21:56 Generation to generation, these things. The person who hits has 22:00 usually been abused. In fact, someone who is abused is five 22:05 times as likely to abuse as anyone else so if you find abuse 22:10 in your home your children are more likely to pass this on and 22:15 to carry the same characteristic That's why it's got to be nipped 22:19 here. So in 25 words or less if a 22:22 young man, let's just say, comes out of a home that his father 22:27 was a hitter and he chose not to do that but it may be innate 22:31 does he need to seek help at that particular time to divert 22:35 his aggressions. Chances are there will be some 22:38 signs of this going on in his life beforehand. There will be 22:42 an anger issue, some self-esteem 22:44 problems, maybe some history of 22:47 violence some place in order for 22:49 this to begin to reveal itself in a relationship. But it's 22:52 never a bad idea if you come from that environment to say 22:55 you know it's not a bad idea; let's get some help and do a 22:58 check up and just make sure that I'm all right. 23:01 The good news is that you can break the cycle. Yes. You know 23:04 it doesn't have to go from generation to generation. 23:06 You can be the person who makes that decision, it's not going 23:10 any further. It stops here. This can be a dynamic factor 23:14 rather than a static factor and so let's take those dynamic 23:18 factors, change them to the glory of God and move on. 23:21 Number 7 and this is one that I really think is important and 23:28 that is know how far is too far before you date. 23:32 Now there's not a person out there dating who doesn't know 23:35 exactly what I'm talking about. How far is too far? 23:38 I think the key word is "before" 23:41 and parents listening to this program you need to be aware of 23:46 this in training your children as they are young that they have 23:50 these decisions made. Because you can't make a good decision 23:54 in the heat of the moment. You have to make the decision 23:58 beforehand. I will go this far and no further. 24:02 If the first time that this thought occurs to you you're in 24:05 the backseat of a car, this is not a good sign. You're in 24:08 You're in trouble. I wonder if this is too far? That's a bad 24:11 sign. It's better to make that decision beforehand. When I 24:15 started dating Gayle, she had a reputation and the reputation 24:18 was she had very definite boundaries. The young men that 24:22 I knew who knew her said, Listen, she knows who she is, 24:26 she knows what her boundaries are. That drew me to her. If you 24:30 want to know the truth, it did. 24:31 You know I think the thing that created that though was having 24:35 parents and particularly having a father who was active in my 24:39 life, who allowed me to know that I was a person of value 24:43 because of my relationship with him and my beauty lay somewhere 24:48 else other than what someone could do on the back seat of a 24:52 car. So fathers, it's tremendously important that they 24:56 be active and a part of their little girl's life. 25:00 I hope all the fathers out there are listening to that right 25:03 there. That's true. The research bears 25:05 this out that if a father is close to his daughter it really 25:09 pays dividends for her future relationships, it pays dividends 25:14 in her maintaining virginity until marriage and purity until 25:18 marriage. And it pays dividends in her self-worth and then in 25:22 her ability to relate in a healthy way to a man in 25:26 marriage. Fathers are key in this. Some people have asked 25:30 me well Pastor how far is too far? My answer to this is young 25:34 ladies, any part of your body that you would not show to me 25:39 as a pastor is a part of your body that he should neither see 25:44 nor touch. What a wonderful rule. In fact, it worked. 25:49 They say there's not a lot I'm going to show to you pastor. 25:52 Well good. That's as it should be. So don't show it to him 25:55 either and don't let him touch it. You know that's reserved for 25:58 marriage. It's really that simple. 26:00 Well time goes by so fast. We've got two minutes left. Why don't 26:04 you take 90 seconds to give us the other two or three or sum 26:08 up. Okay. Law number 8: if you find 26:10 it difficult to talk or to be accurately understood or if you 26:14 find that you avoid unpleasant issues in the relationship, 26:17 break up. You've got communication issues. 26:19 Number 9: If you have been the victim of molestation, incest or 26:24 rape, get help before you date seriously because this will 26:27 affect every relationship in your life, especially marriage 26:31 relationships and intimacy in marriage. 26:32 And the last one is probably the most important of all is 26:36 just surrender your dating life and your sexuality to Jesus, 26:39 because he will be your guide and he will do it. 26:43 So that should be 1A, 2A and all the way through. 26:47 That should be all the way through. 26:48 So summarize them really quick in say 40 seconds. 26:52 In 40 seconds, if you're going to date you need to date to find 26:56 a mate and that means that you have to have a plan in mind. 27:00 Our 10 commandments here of dating or 10 laws of dating are 27:03 pretty good guidelines for you. You may add or subtract from 27:07 this, but you need a plan and a direction, a focus, so you'll 27:10 know where you're going, otherwise you're going to end up 27:13 who knows where. Yes, yes, I mean this is 27:16 absolutely fantastic and I know that a lot of parents and a lot 27:20 of kids out there have heard every word that you said. 27:22 This would be a good book. 27:24 Yeah, I'm working on it. 27:25 I imagine that you are working on it. We're are just so tickled 27:29 that you are here with us today. There are going to be additional 27:32 programs so I know that people will want to see. I think that 27:34 the next program that we're going to be doing is how to 27:38 select a Christian mate and that's something that everybody 27:39 would like to know. Anyway, we just want to thank 27:43 each one of you out there for watching Issues and Answers 27:46 today and we just ask that God bless you and just give you more 27:51 than you would ever think that would be possible. 27:53 God bless you. We love you. |
Revised 2014-12-17