Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome again to
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Issues and Answers. Today
we are going to be talking
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about how the church is the one
organization that is equipped to
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be protective of its children
and yet be redemptive towards
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all people, even child
molesters. So this is a very
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important program because we
are going to be discussing how
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child molesters actually
can target churches and what
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churches can do to protect
themself, protect their children
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and yet how we need to reach
out with the love of God to
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bring other people in. Let
me read you a scripture and this
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is Matthew 10:16: Jesus said,
behold I am sending you out
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like sheep in the midst of
wolves. Be wary and wise as
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serpents and be
innocent or harmless as doves.
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That's going to be our issue.
You may want to send your small
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children out of the room for
this program. Let me introduce
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to you our special
guest. We have returning with us
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Wayne Labins. Wayne, thank
you so much for coming back and
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Sherri Labins. Your ministry
is With Jesus' Strength.
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Tell us about the ministry.
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Well, With Jesus' Strength is
just what it says. With Jesus'
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strength all
things are possible.
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That's Philippians 4:13. And
particularly we are reaching out
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to those who are suffering under
alcoholism, drug abuse, smoking,
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sexual abuse, even abuse
to exercise or food addiction;
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anything that is
abused or addictive in nature.
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People need deliverance from
that and only Jesus can truly
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deliver someone
completely from that.
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And you're talking from the
voice of experience. I know that
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you, Sherri, have been delivered
from drug and alcohol abuse,
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and for you, Wayne, from
something much more delicate
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and that is child abuse. You are
a registered sex offender who
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fondled a young girl and your
own daughter. Now that has been
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some time in your past. Before
we get into the church and
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recognizing these things
that happen and even predators
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who can come into the church,
before we get into talking about
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how to protect your children
and also how to redeem those who
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are the abusers, I need to
ask you something very specific
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because I know from programming
that I've done in the past
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particularly with Cheri Peters.
She has discussed the fact that
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drug addicts or somebody
that might be into alcoholism or
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pornography that part of
the healing and recovery process
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that you can almost expect them
to relapse a number of times.
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With child abuse what would
you say about the relapse issue?
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Well, when an abuser enters into
a therapy situation where they
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learn the relapse prevention
module, it is zero tolerance.
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You cannot allow a child to
be abused even one more time and
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so there's zero tolerance
and that really needs to be
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emphasized. People who are in
other addictions may think that
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it only hurts themselves if they
slip a little, but in this case
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it damages a precious
child of God. It can't happen.
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So there should be no tolerance
period. Now what has been the
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church's response
to child sexual abuse?
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Well, generally the
church has been a very trusting
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organization. It has been
somewhat slow to recognize that
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they even have an issue with
it, could possibly rear its ugly
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head within the church and that
makes it potentially a target
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for predators. Those who
may be identified as having this
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problem, well it's like in
society, it has a very strong
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stigma attached to it and it
tends to distance people. That
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can't happen anymore. We've
got to treat sexual abuse, child
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sexual abuse, similar to how
alcoholism used to be treated.
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Remember when Betty Ford checked
herself into the alcohol rehab?
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It had a very strong
social stigma attached to it.
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It still does, but not as
strong. Sexual abuse needs to
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the point where we can discuss
it and deal with it head-on, get
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help and hold each other
accountable, especially those
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who are the abusers. They
need the help of accountability
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within the church body. Jesus
called all sinners, all sinners
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into the body of Christ. He
promises help for all sinners
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as well. I do
know that I have read,
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Sherri, on various web sites
in researching some for this
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program that they say that for
an abuser, someone who is active
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in this behavior, that they
actually think of the church as
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their number one target.
Why do abusers target churches?
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Well, for one, like I mentioned,
they are kind of trusting.
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There's this almost blinders-on
idea that everybody is just
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doing their good job, they're
being good Christians and we
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kind of see that in the pews.
We come to church, maybe we had
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a grumpy morning, but we
come into church and we put our
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smiles on. Well if everyone's
smiling all the time and not
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really sharing; how are you
really, Shelley. How is your
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day really going. If you just
tell me well fine, we haven't
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really communicated if it hasn't
been fine. Because of that
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atmosphere that maybe is not as
real as it needs to be abusers
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can slip in and start grooming
their victims, and grooming
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meaning starting to develop
trust with them and maybe commit
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an abuse. Okay.
You know, we tell our
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children to be careful not
to talk to strangers, but yet in
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church we encourage them to be
friendly. So what can we do as
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a church body, a church family,
to protect our children from
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sexual child abuse?
First thing is the things that
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would normally come to mind
in any environment, even in your
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home environment. Parents
need to take the time to talk to
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their children at age
appropriate times what's good
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touch or bad touch, what's
acceptable touch and behavior
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and from whom. I mean, that
needs to be discussed at a very
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young age. As they grow older,
you can get more detailed, okay,
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age appropriate. But in the
church in particular, again,
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because it's such a trusting
organization, we can sometimes
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forget, that you know what, we
need to be accountable to each
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other and helpful for each
other. The first thing that can
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be done is to use the tools
that are out there that the
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community is using. There
are websites out there where you
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can look up sex offenders
and see where they live and find
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out if they are coming to your
church. There's no reason you
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can't use those tools. However,
as a church you need to use them
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in a way that's also redemptive.
The information that is out
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there by state law cannot be
abused. Okay? You can't use it
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to harass, but you can
certainly use it to talk to
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someone and share with someone.
You know, you've been coming to
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this church for a few years now
and we've found some information
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out. We'd like to talk to
you about that. There's nothing
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wrong with that. If a person
is coming to church for good
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reasons they
will be understanding.
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They've gone through a lot
of things that they've had to go
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through in talking with people.
They might have gone through
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jail or gone through probation.
They understand they've crossed
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the line in the past. There are
certain things that are not open
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to them. They are not going
to be in scouting programs, they
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are not going to be in church
children's programs, but they
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should still be able to be in
the church body and gaining from
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the blessings of corporate
worship. It says, do not forsake
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the assembling of yourselves
together. That means everybody.
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There are blessings in corporate
worship, but there needs to be
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protection as well. So the
church can do those things.
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They can also organize their
environment in a way that the
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children are protected. For
example, in the classrooms there
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need to be windows in the doors
or in the walls even better.
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There always needs to be two
adults, always, in children's
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programs always present,
preferably not a husband and
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wife. Those are two main things
right off the bat that churches
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can implement right now. Instead
of hiding from this issue invite
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the whole church to watch
a video. Church Mutual has an
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excellent video on how to
organize your worship center
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in such a way that you're as
protective as possible. There
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are background checks, there is
fingerprinting just like in the
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public schools. Maybe this
all sounds like too much for a
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worship center but how
much is too much for a child?
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You know, when J.D. and I were
going through ministerial school
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15 years ago one of the first
things we learned, they were
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talking about never counsel
alone with a person of the
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opposite sex. But as far as
structuring the Sabbath School
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classes, or at that time we were
Sunday keepers, but what we were
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told is that any program that
involves children you should
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have a background check and get
references. You do not accept
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someone even if somebody has
been going to your church for
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many years. I'll use an example
that's somewhat of this nature
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but a little bit different. In
my sister's church in New Mexico
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they had a registered sex
offender who had been going
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to church there for five years
on probation and they knew and
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they trusted and began to love
and trust this man in such a
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way that they believed by faith
he is healed and they actually
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assigned him to drive the
bus that would pick the children
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up for Sunday School. No
way. Yes, this is what they did.
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And after a few months of doing
this he actually raped a couple
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of young girls who were the
last ones he was taking home. So
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what would you say? We want
to be redemptive, but if someone
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has this history, would you
say that means never ever, ever
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give them those kind of
positions with children?
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Never ever, ever, ever.
To me they should not ask for
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those positions. Wayne would
never ask to be in charge of
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cradle roll. He would not ask to
be the Pathfinder director, you
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know. That's just something that
is not open. It's like he would
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not go to do those things and he
doesn't want to. It's like you
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don't open those doors no matter
and our church loves and trusts
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him and they even at one point
thought man... Because we'll
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go on camping trips with our
church and with a big bunch of
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us but it's the families and
it's not us taking just a bunch
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of kids. It's the kids going
with their parents and stuff.
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So they thought oh but Wayne
gets along so well with, you
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know, we all get along so well
with the youth and kids and we
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all have so much fun with their
families but there is no way we
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would ever take on that
role or he would want that role.
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And those families parents know
Wayne's situation. There's just
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no way. To really
address what you're
00:12:08.66\00:12:11.73
saying: Never is the answer.
Never. Once someone has crossed
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the boundary of offending
against a child that's it.
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There are certain consequences
that go on for the rest of your
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life. People talk about a cure
for pedophilia, a cure for child
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molesting and the literature
is kind of mixed on that. To me
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I'm a registered sex offender
okay, but I'm also a registered
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child of God, okay. That means
I don't trust myself. I trust my
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God but it does not mean for a
minute that I'm all better. I'll
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just go on and engage in
behaviors that could be at risk.
00:12:48.63\00:12:53.84
Don't even go there. Don't have
even the appearance of evil is
00:12:53.88\00:12:58.23
what it says, okay. You
know, something that you
00:12:58.26\00:13:00.21
told me when we first were
talking many months ago is that
00:13:00.24\00:13:04.61
the accountability program...
you're big on accountability...
00:13:04.64\00:13:09.38
and oh do I want you to hear
this, whether you are a molester
00:13:09.42\00:13:13.77
or you know a molester or if
there's someone that's going to
00:13:13.81\00:13:18.07
your church who is a registered
sex offender, the accountability
00:13:18.10\00:13:22.57
program is critical. But you
said something to me that was so
00:13:22.60\00:13:27.04
interesting. You mentioned
that you even will have an
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accountability partner
that you'll ask someone to go to
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the bathroom with you and it's
not because you're worried so
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much that you're going to repeat
the act, but you don't even want
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to be falsely accused or
you want to avoid the very
00:13:41.77\00:13:46.05
appearance of evil.
Exactly. Yes, why not, too?
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I mean, people have gone
through going to jail, going
00:13:50.33\00:13:53.28
through the court process, maybe
losing their family. Why risk
00:13:53.31\00:13:56.19
any of that again? There's
value in the corrective, the
00:13:56.22\00:14:00.43
punishment, okay, so learn
from it. Don't put yourself in a
00:14:00.46\00:14:04.06
situation where you've ever
going to be questioned again.
00:14:04.09\00:14:07.66
You want to ere so far
on the side of safety and
00:14:07.69\00:14:11.93
conservatism that no one even
has any question. Now this is
00:14:11.96\00:14:16.78
not the same as what can
happen with abusers; it's called
00:14:16.81\00:14:21.59
religiosity. They can become
overly religious, they can be
00:14:21.63\00:14:25.77
holier than thou and they can
actually deceive themselves into
00:14:25.81\00:14:29.79
thinking well God's forgiven me,
I'm all better now, I don't have
00:14:29.82\00:14:33.77
to do these accountability
practices anymore. I'm done.
00:14:33.80\00:14:37.59
That's setting yourself up.
00:14:37.63\00:14:39.77
That's like taking someone who
was an alcoholic who's walked
00:14:39.80\00:14:45.46
in recovery for many years and
saying let's put you in the bar
00:14:45.50\00:14:50.72
as the bartender because you're
all healed. Why would anyone
00:14:50.76\00:14:55.57
want to say I'm healed but I'm
going to return back to those
00:14:55.60\00:15:00.38
old circumstances
maybe reopening something you
00:15:00.41\00:15:04.31
don't want to reopen?
Why even go close to that?
00:15:04.34\00:15:08.17
Okay, I have a difficult
question for you. When it comes
00:15:08.20\00:15:16.57
to sexual child abuse,
most people are revolted and we
00:15:16.61\00:15:22.80
definitely want to be... I
feel like in some ways most
00:15:22.84\00:15:28.96
churches have their head in the
sand because we are so trusting.
00:15:29.00\00:15:31.77
We don't do background checks
in many places. But when we
00:15:31.80\00:15:36.79
learn that someone has this
background then you hear some
00:15:36.83\00:15:41.75
people who are so revolted about
it that they want to shun that
00:15:41.78\00:15:45.26
person. We can't do that either
because that's not what Jesus
00:15:45.29\00:15:48.74
would do. How do we get a
balance in here to make sure
00:15:48.77\00:15:53.87
we're doing all that can do
to protect our children and yet
00:15:53.90\00:15:59.29
to reach out to redeem those or
to accept those who Christ has
00:15:59.32\00:16:04.67
redeemed?
That's a good question.
00:16:04.71\00:16:06.91
I would say that what the church
needs to do again is to face
00:16:06.94\00:16:12.20
this head-on and as you start
talking about it honestly and
00:16:12.23\00:16:16.37
openly with the whole church
family you start to realize, you
00:16:16.40\00:16:20.51
know what there but for
the grace of God go I. You know
00:16:20.54\00:16:23.91
what people start realizing
you know what I could have gone
00:16:23.94\00:16:27.27
down that road too.
Especially if they'd had the
00:16:27.31\00:16:30.98
background. Many abusers have
been abused and there's a cycle
00:16:31.01\00:16:35.67
that goes on. That's right.
But you know Jesus himself
00:16:35.70\00:16:39.57
who did he associate with? He
associated with the worst; you
00:16:39.60\00:16:43.05
know, the tax collectors and
the prostitutes are going into
00:16:43.08\00:16:46.53
heaven ahead of you. You know,
he identified and reached out
00:16:46.56\00:16:50.26
to those who were the worst in
society. Okay, well you can pick
00:16:50.29\00:16:53.68
whoever you want to be the worst
in society and you know what
00:16:53.71\00:16:57.32
child molesters have to be down
there, okay. We're in prison
00:16:57.36\00:17:01.11
ministry and that's about the
lowest there is. But you know
00:17:01.15\00:17:05.13
what, Christ reached down
to even that level and that's
00:17:05.16\00:17:09.07
partly why we're here. If he
can do it with Saul turning into
00:17:09.11\00:17:12.96
Paul; Paul was the worst too, he
says I'm the chief sinner, I'm
00:17:13.00\00:17:16.82
the worst, he can do it with
anyone. He can and we have to
00:17:16.86\00:17:20.09
as a church body realize that;
being protective but also being
00:17:20.13\00:17:23.70
protective but also redemptive
at the same time. It can be done
00:17:23.74\00:17:27.28
but again only
with Jesus' strength.
00:17:27.31\00:17:29.06
Now Wayne I know that part of
what you and Sherri do as your
00:17:29.10\00:17:34.01
ministry is you have a passion
for the message of purity.
00:17:34.05\00:17:39.15
How do we create that atmosphere
of purity at our churches
00:17:39.18\00:17:44.25
without becoming
stiff and formal?
00:17:44.28\00:17:48.82
Well, there something I like to
do and Sherri's seen me do this.
00:17:48.85\00:17:52.75
I like saying brother and sister
okay. That's biblical, we talk
00:17:52.79\00:17:56.66
about the brethren. When
we say brother and sister it
00:17:56.69\00:18:00.74
immediately sets up the
boundaries of our relationship.
00:18:00.78\00:18:04.76
When I say Sister Shelley, you
are my sister and as my sister
00:18:04.79\00:18:09.62
I should care for you, I
should love you, but there are
00:18:09.65\00:18:13.71
boundaries to that level of
love. Okay. It's not husband/
00:18:13.74\00:18:17.73
wife love, it's brotherly love.
Reinforcing that thinking that
00:18:17.76\00:18:20.93
you know what there's brotherly
and sisterly love within every
00:18:20.96\00:18:24.09
church family. It helps,
especially for men who are so
00:18:24.13\00:18:29.37
visual, that's my sister, not
somebody or something to think
00:18:29.41\00:18:33.62
about lustfully in any way. It
reinforces the proper thinking
00:18:33.65\00:18:38.01
that God wants us to have
in setting up those boundaries.
00:18:38.05\00:18:42.29
That just brings sexual purity
into the church. We want that.
00:18:42.33\00:18:46.03
When we're in the church and
we're sitting there in the pews
00:18:46.07\00:18:49.88
who wants a man distracted
by lustful thoughts. You know,
00:18:49.92\00:18:53.67
that's just not a place for the
church to be. As you reinforce
00:18:53.70\00:18:57.00
sexual purity in the
church, hit that issue head on
00:18:57.03\00:19:00.36
especially at men's retreats.
I just got back from one and
00:19:00.40\00:19:04.86
Bernie Anderson shared how three
or four years ago he was caught
00:19:04.90\00:19:09.01
up in pornography, addicted
to it and he's a pastor in the
00:19:09.04\00:19:12.17
church. His name was in
News Week and other programs.
00:19:12.21\00:19:16.00
Praise God, he is going out and
sharing how God delivered him
00:19:16.04\00:19:21.46
as well. We need to hit these
things head-on and having purity
00:19:21.50\00:19:26.88
in the church by being
intentional about it is
00:19:26.92\00:19:30.04
how the bride will make herself
without spot or wrinkle. That's
00:19:30.07\00:19:33.98
how Jesus can come back. He's
looking for a pure church like
00:19:34.02\00:19:37.23
it was during the apostles'
time where you helped each other
00:19:37.27\00:19:40.45
I believe there's a
good scripture on this:
00:19:40.48\00:19:47.60
I Timothy 5:2: How should
you treat the elder women; treat
00:19:47.64\00:19:51.87
them as mothers. How should you
treat the younger, as sisters
00:19:51.91\00:19:56.50
with what, with all purity.
That's how we should be treating
00:19:56.53\00:20:01.09
each other. I'll
put my two cents in here
00:20:01.12\00:20:04.57
that I believe in the A-frame
hug or the sideways hug. That's
00:20:04.60\00:20:09.13
something that quite important
that you're not doing a full
00:20:09.17\00:20:13.67
body press when somebody's
hugging you in church.
00:20:13.70\00:20:17.90
Sherri, you do not have
children, is that correct.
00:20:17.94\00:20:22.11
I have three stepchildren.
00:20:22.14\00:20:23.54
Three stepchildren and that's
your children. As if you were
00:20:23.57\00:20:29.42
a mother of a young child and
with your experience, what would
00:20:29.45\00:20:32.86
tell mothers of young children
to tell their children to avoid
00:20:32.90\00:20:41.08
say someone in the church who
was a registered sex offender
00:20:41.11\00:20:46.23
and you knew, what would
you tell those children to avoid
00:20:46.27\00:20:50.00
becoming groomed or a
target for that person?
00:20:50.03\00:20:53.54
Well a lot of times to me I feel
the kids have so much pressure
00:20:53.58\00:20:58.00
that a lot of time especially
like the younger children that
00:20:58.04\00:21:02.65
they really don't know. To me
kids should just be able to be
00:21:02.69\00:21:07.30
kids. But you do definitely
want to have the good touch, bad
00:21:07.33\00:21:11.91
touch, but to me
it's the adults...
00:21:11.95\00:21:14.44
When you say have the
good touch, bad touch you mean
00:21:14.47\00:21:16.78
have that conversation
explained to the child.
00:21:16.81\00:21:18.98
Right explain to the child.
But to me, have the adults...
00:21:19.01\00:21:24.03
Like to me, I'm super hyper
sensitive on this and when I'm
00:21:24.06\00:21:28.81
at church your kids are pretty
safe because I'm watching who
00:21:28.85\00:21:31.70
I know may be somebody I'm
suspicious of or I've seen act
00:21:31.74\00:21:37.12
in a suspicious way maybe and
I will be watching to see how
00:21:37.16\00:21:41.03
like if a child goes to the
bathroom, if there's somebody
00:21:41.07\00:21:44.87
hanging out in the lobby and the
child is in the lobby at that
00:21:44.91\00:21:49.00
time I will watch just at that
same time just to be sure, you
00:21:49.03\00:21:54.32
know, that all goes well so that
a child does not get abused or
00:21:54.35\00:21:59.60
whatever. I'm just
really sensitive on that.
00:21:59.63\00:22:01.82
Well that's important and
I guess what occurs to me is
00:22:01.86\00:22:05.05
that parents should
if they even have to swap
00:22:05.09\00:22:09.18
responsibilities, who's going
to be the sentry to kind of
00:22:09.22\00:22:12.21
watch over the children. Because
sometimes we have a tendency
00:22:12.25\00:22:15.21
when we're at church just
to let our children run free
00:22:15.24\00:22:18.16
because we feel like everything
is so safe. With the social
00:22:18.20\00:22:22.59
stigma that is attached to this
condition or sin, condition of
00:22:22.62\00:22:31.16
sin, a lot of people are some
what reluctant to reach out for
00:22:31.20\00:22:37.16
help because... Let's say
there is someone who is going to
00:22:37.19\00:22:42.63
church who may be into
pornography, may have acted out
00:22:42.66\00:22:47.62
by fondling a child, as you
did. Maybe they've never been
00:22:47.65\00:22:52.65
convicted. How can we as a
church reach those people who
00:22:52.69\00:22:57.62
are doing what you did initially
and it's holding it back, not
00:22:57.65\00:23:02.29
able to find the
strength to confess it?
00:23:02.33\00:23:04.50
Well talking about it certainly
helps, okay. We can't hide our
00:23:04.53\00:23:08.04
heads in the sand anymore about
it. Talk about it not in a way
00:23:08.08\00:23:12.05
that's so confrontational
but talk about what's real life.
00:23:12.08\00:23:16.02
These are real issues
that people are dealing with.
00:23:16.06\00:23:17.73
As the church deals with
real issues, you know what, the
00:23:17.77\00:23:21.34
church is going to grow because
it will start to help people
00:23:21.37\00:23:24.90
realize this is a place
for true healing. It's not just
00:23:24.94\00:23:28.44
people going through the forms
of church life. The church is a
00:23:28.47\00:23:32.98
living, breathing organism.
God wants it to be helpful and a
00:23:33.02\00:23:37.25
beacon of light. If it's dim
because of internal festering
00:23:37.29\00:23:40.66
and disease we're not going
to be affective and we're not
00:23:40.70\00:23:43.96
going home. We're not going
home until we have a healthy
00:23:44.00\00:23:50.50
pure church. One thing in
addition to talking is modeling
00:23:50.53\00:23:55.90
good behavior. The church has
to model that purity in order
00:23:55.93\00:24:00.93
to really believe that it's
possible. Model being able to
00:24:00.97\00:24:04.77
talk to people. Show that, you
know what, you're trustworthy.
00:24:04.81\00:24:10.46
The confidentiality is important
to start out with. Someone has
00:24:10.50\00:24:14.82
to be able to say I need to
talk with you about something.
00:24:14.86\00:24:19.14
You're someone I feel I
can talk to. Again, there are
00:24:19.18\00:24:22.77
mandated reporter laws. So the
pastors and others are required
00:24:22.80\00:24:27.13
to report on
these kinds of issues.
00:24:27.16\00:24:29.05
But what... let's say that I've
got a problem and I'm listening
00:24:29.08\00:24:33.23
to this program right now
and I decide I need to come talk
00:24:33.26\00:24:36.85
to the pastor. Now you're
telling me, Hey, they're going
00:24:36.88\00:24:41.28
to have to report you. How would
you reassure me under those
00:24:41.32\00:24:45.68
circumstances. That's
why we're here. Because
00:24:45.72\00:24:48.69
Jesus led us through that and
he will lead people through the
00:24:48.72\00:24:53.83
difficult things. As scary as
it may be to talk about it and
00:24:53.87\00:24:58.56
to admit and to confess fault,
don't let Satan have even one
00:24:58.59\00:25:02.72
more victory. Every day that
goes by that someone who is in
00:25:02.76\00:25:06.33
an abusive situation, knows
it, wants help but doesn't do
00:25:06.36\00:25:09.90
anything about it is another
victory for Satan. Jesus wants
00:25:09.93\00:25:13.06
to have victory in our lives.
Jesus wants victory in our whole
00:25:13.09\00:25:16.21
church, the whole church
body. So somehow people have to
00:25:16.24\00:25:21.19
understand I trust God to
lead me through. The church has
00:25:21.22\00:25:26.10
living flesh and blood to reach
out to us okay. There's got to
00:25:26.14\00:25:31.28
be someone who can be confident
who can listen and share. If it
00:25:31.32\00:25:36.43
is not the pastor, it's got
to be someone you trust. Find
00:25:36.46\00:25:38.78
somebody. Because as an abuser
admits it to even one person the
00:25:38.82\00:25:42.84
chances of abuse go way,
way down. It starts the ball of
00:25:42.87\00:25:46.45
of recovery rolling So
are you saying though that
00:25:46.48\00:25:49.88
the consequences of confessing
this which means that you could
00:25:49.92\00:25:55.30
do jail time, lose your job,
lose your family, those are less
00:25:55.33\00:26:01.03
important than consequences of
abusing a child one more time?
00:26:01.07\00:26:05.21
Absolutely. How can you ever
even balance it out. You can
00:26:05.25\00:26:09.32
think about all the things about
yourself but that's where the
00:26:09.35\00:26:12.88
selfishness comes into play.
Look at the child. Where is she
00:26:12.91\00:26:17.75
at? She is powerless. She is
helpless to resist; she or he,
00:26:17.78\00:26:22.83
exactly. How can you compare the
damage that's being caused to
00:26:22.86\00:26:28.03
that child versus your loss
of maybe a job, whatever. Jesus
00:26:28.07\00:26:32.07
will see you through it.
Help this person right now, this
00:26:32.11\00:26:36.21
abused person right now
by admitting, coming forward.
00:26:36.25\00:26:40.32
There's no other way around it.
00:26:40.35\00:26:41.41
Speak straight to
the person out there.
00:26:41.44\00:26:43.79
There's no other way around
it. The only way that you can
00:26:43.83\00:26:48.68
truly get deliverance if you
want deliverance, words are one
00:26:48.72\00:26:53.27
thing but you cannot just go to
God and say God please forgive
00:26:53.31\00:26:57.23
me for what I've done and slap
yourself on the wrist and say,
00:26:57.27\00:27:00.99
I'm all better now. There's
got to be accountability to the
00:27:01.02\00:27:04.08
church. There's got to be
accountability to some living,
00:27:04.12\00:27:07.14
breathing person here on this
00:27:07.18\00:27:08.29
planet so that
your faith is real.
00:27:08.33\00:27:12.36
Wayne, thank you so much.
Sherri, it's just gone by too
00:27:12.40\00:27:17.11
quickly. We appreciate
your sharing. I hope that you've
00:27:17.15\00:27:21.79
learned something that you can
take to the bank and put into
00:27:21.83\00:27:25.55
practice in your church. And
I hope that if you are an abuser
00:27:25.59\00:27:29.28
that you will
know, claim Psalm 129:4
00:27:29.31\00:27:32.21
The Lord is righteous. He can
cut you free from the cord of
00:27:32.25\00:27:36.51
the wicked that is binding you.
A child is too precious to put
00:27:36.55\00:27:40.78
through this kind of misery
and it's too far reaching.
00:27:40.81\00:27:44.28
May the Lord bless you
incredibly more than you
00:27:44.32\00:27:47.62
could ever ask or think.
Thank you for joining us today
00:27:47.65\00:27:51.45
and please tune in again.
00:27:51.49\00:27:57.83