Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome again to
00:00:31.55\00:00:33.53
Issues and Answers. I
do want to warn you parents
00:00:33.56\00:00:37.00
that the topic that we are
going to be discussing today is
00:00:37.03\00:00:40.33
delicate. We'll be talking about
child sexual abuse and recovery
00:00:40.36\00:00:44.74
from this. So if you have small
children in the room, you may
00:00:44.77\00:00:48.56
want to send them out of the
room now. I would like to open
00:00:48.59\00:00:51.81
the program with the scripture
as usual and I've chosen
00:00:51.84\00:00:54.51
James 5:16, and it says: Confess
to one another therefore your
00:00:54.54\00:01:03.88
faults, your slips, your false
steps, your offences, your sins
00:01:03.91\00:01:08.90
and pray also for one another
that you may be healed and
00:01:08.93\00:01:13.21
restored to a spiritual tone
of mind and heart. The earnest,
00:01:13.24\00:01:19.00
heartfelt continued prayer of
a righteous man makes tremendous
00:01:19.03\00:01:23.40
power available dynamic in
its working. This comes from the
00:01:23.43\00:01:29.26
Amplified version of the Bible
but boy does this give the full
00:01:29.29\00:01:34.29
impact of that verse. Our
special guests today are the
00:01:34.32\00:01:38.58
Labins. They are returning again
to share more of their testimony
00:01:38.61\00:01:43.32
of recovery. Let me introduce
you to Wayne, it's nice to have
00:01:43.35\00:01:48.41
you here again, and Sherri.
Now you all have a program and a
00:01:48.44\00:01:53.79
ministry that is called
With Jesus' Strength. Tell us a
00:01:53.82\00:01:57.80
little bit about that ministry.
00:01:57.83\00:02:00.77
Well, it's a ministry that is
really emphasizing Jesus all the
00:02:00.80\00:02:04.88
way through in giving us
strength to overcome all sorts
00:02:04.91\00:02:08.28
of habitual sin, not just sexual
abuse, but addictions to drugs
00:02:08.31\00:02:14.30
and alcohol, smoking, food,
exercise addiction, we've even
00:02:14.33\00:02:18.10
heard of exercise addictions.
So the emphasis in our ministry
00:02:18.13\00:02:21.56
is that Jesus can provide and
will provide deliverance from
00:02:21.59\00:02:26.39
these abusive and addictive
behaviors if you only ask; you
00:02:26.42\00:02:31.21
have to ask first. But
then there's more and we'll talk
00:02:31.24\00:02:33.74
about the accountability with
other people as well in your
00:02:33.77\00:02:36.90
life. Amen. Now
Sherri, I know that
00:02:36.93\00:02:39.59
we had your testimony previously
and you discussed how you had
00:02:39.62\00:02:44.07
been brought up in the church
but at an early age when your
00:02:44.10\00:02:48.17
parents divorced you went off
in a different path and became
00:02:48.20\00:02:52.00
involved with drugs and alcohol.
But we proved that when you
00:02:52.03\00:02:57.75
train up a child in the way you
should go you will not depart
00:02:57.78\00:03:01.15
from it as you're older. And God
brought you back into a strong
00:03:01.18\00:03:05.85
personal relationship with him.
Then once he delivered you, he
00:03:05.88\00:03:13.12
introduced you to a man, Wayne,
who had also been cut free from
00:03:13.15\00:03:17.74
the cord of the wicked that
was binding him. Wayne, for our
00:03:17.77\00:03:20.90
viewers who may not have
seen the program before when we
00:03:20.93\00:03:23.94
shared your testimony. You are a
convicted child molester and you
00:03:23.97\00:03:29.75
fondled your daughter and
another small child and after
00:03:29.78\00:03:33.82
those two incidents you turned
your life over to the Lord and
00:03:33.85\00:03:37.51
God has changed you. But what
we're going to be talking about
00:03:37.54\00:03:41.54
today is something that is
so important and I love the fact
00:03:41.57\00:03:45.41
that you always focus on
this and that is accountability,
00:03:45.44\00:03:49.24
accountability, accountability.
So let me begin by asking how
00:03:49.27\00:03:55.78
would you define
child sexual abuse?
00:03:55.81\00:04:00.11
Well child sexual abuse involves
the sexual gratification of
00:04:00.14\00:04:05.50
either the perpetrator or
the child or both. It involves
00:04:05.53\00:04:12.96
touching, it involves using
verbal sexually explicit images
00:04:12.99\00:04:19.19
to try to reduce the inhibitions
of a child. All that is covered.
00:04:19.22\00:04:24.22
Sexual pornography, either adult
pornography or child pornography
00:04:24.25\00:04:27.86
It all comes under the
definition of child sexual abuse
00:04:27.89\00:04:30.84
Any time that the barriers
between physical contact are
00:04:30.87\00:04:38.13
violated in sexual areas of the
body, that's sexual abuse. But
00:04:38.16\00:04:42.96
that's really kind of man's
definition and it certainly
00:04:42.99\00:04:46.83
applies, but God's standards are
higher. What I wanted to kind of
00:04:46.86\00:04:51.04
emphasize that sexual abuse
is also abuse of the gift of
00:04:51.07\00:04:55.14
sexual intimacy that God bestows
for a man and a woman in the
00:04:55.17\00:04:59.94
context of holy matrimony.
There is a holy use for the
00:04:59.97\00:05:04.08
sexual gift of sexual intimacy
and anything outside of that
00:05:04.11\00:05:08.29
is Satan's counterfeit.
That's what's kind of opening up
00:05:08.32\00:05:13.12
people's eyes. We're talking
about child sexual abuse, but
00:05:13.15\00:05:16.73
sexual abuse in general
encompasses a huge area that
00:05:16.76\00:05:21.23
maybe people who are not in
sexual abuse of a child, their
00:05:21.26\00:05:25.92
eyes might be opened up to what
God has and he calls us ever
00:05:25.95\00:05:29.40
higher. Amen. Now
how long ago were the
00:05:29.43\00:05:32.97
incidents in your life? In 1992.
00:05:33.00\00:05:37.35
1992. So what God has done in
your life I think is tremendous.
00:05:37.38\00:05:44.35
The question I guess I want to
ask is we want to understand why
00:05:44.38\00:05:48.76
do abuses abuse. I know that
in your instance you actually
00:05:48.79\00:05:53.69
suffered sexual abuse as a child
in what you are describing now
00:05:53.72\00:05:57.78
in that what you heard verbally,
what you saw. You saw your
00:05:57.81\00:06:02.40
father fondle you stepsister and
you followed in this path. But
00:06:02.43\00:06:07.39
why do abusers abuse?
00:06:07.42\00:06:09.91
I wanted to definitely address
this question because I know
00:06:09.94\00:06:13.54
some people here, even here at
3ABN, have asked that question.
00:06:13.57\00:06:17.02
They just cannot get their mind
around how anyone could cross
00:06:17.05\00:06:20.58
this boundary. Especially with
a child. Especially with a child
00:06:20.61\00:06:24.06
The reason for all sin is
somewhat of a mystery still.
00:06:24.09\00:06:30.73
But it comes down to selfishness
it comes down to pride, it comes
00:06:30.76\00:06:35.66
down to wanting to go beyond
what God has outlined as a safe
00:06:35.69\00:06:40.88
area for us in our lives. Child
sexual abuse, the reason people
00:06:40.91\00:06:46.89
do that is a variety. Generally
they have had abuse themselves.
00:06:46.92\00:06:53.03
That is not an excuse. I want to
be very clear on that; that is
00:06:53.06\00:06:56.76
not an excuse for misbehavior
and violating a child. But
00:06:56.79\00:07:01.48
generally that happens
that there has been some sort of
00:07:01.51\00:07:05.53
deviant behavior as a young
child. They have been exposed to
00:07:05.56\00:07:09.19
pornography, they have been
exposed to sexual abuse and they
00:07:09.22\00:07:11.27
act out later on. But the reason
why is sexual gratification for
00:07:11.30\00:07:17.58
one. There is no question
that there is some sexual
00:07:17.61\00:07:19.84
gratification for the abuser.
But it is also power, it's also
00:07:19.87\00:07:24.51
control. In many respects,
as in my case, it was thrill of
00:07:24.54\00:07:28.44
getting away with something.
It sickens me to hear that
00:07:28.47\00:07:33.23
that's what I went through,
that's where I have been, but
00:07:33.26\00:07:36.73
that is an answer to
the question of why. It's
00:07:36.76\00:07:39.64
multifaceted, it really is.
00:07:39.67\00:07:41.96
Sherri, for you, when you first
met Wayne, you said that he said
00:07:41.99\00:07:49.98
to you before you become
involved with me with your heart
00:07:50.01\00:07:54.35
connected with your heart, I
want you to know in your mind
00:07:54.38\00:07:57.02
who I am. What was it like
for you hearing of his story?
00:07:57.05\00:08:02.71
Even though he was now in
recovery, Did it revolt you
00:08:02.74\00:08:06.21
at first? Yes, yes.
I would say my stomach
00:08:06.24\00:08:10.14
got kind of nauseous. I
respected him for being honest
00:08:10.17\00:08:15.87
because I had never had
anybody be so honest with me and
00:08:15.90\00:08:20.68
especially with something that
was so big. You know, I mean
00:08:20.71\00:08:25.06
that's something that nobody at
all would be proud of. So I had
00:08:25.09\00:08:31.14
to respect him for that, but
to me then it was like I need to
00:08:31.17\00:08:36.66
maybe try giving him the benefit
of the doubt. My biggest thing
00:08:36.69\00:08:41.25
then was, if somebody is going
to tell me something like that
00:08:41.28\00:08:45.24
I don't just want lip service.
Show me. Kind of like the state,
00:08:45.27\00:08:50.40
show me state. I wanted to see
so I watched Wayne and now he
00:08:50.43\00:08:56.35
interacted with his children,
with other people's children,
00:08:56.38\00:08:59.86
and the accountability that he
did have. And he had such a high
00:08:59.89\00:09:06.12
accountability that it made me
trust him more. But like I could
00:09:06.15\00:09:09.58
see whenever his father came up
to visit, I would ask him, You
00:09:09.61\00:09:13.80
know, Jerry, please don't
let the kids climb on you, don't
00:09:13.83\00:09:20.05
let Monica climb on you. I'd
like to have her sit next to you
00:09:20.08\00:09:25.31
and don't straddle you. Well
you'd look over and you know
00:09:25.34\00:09:29.90
she's all over him and he would
not monitor the situation and
00:09:29.93\00:09:34.48
he's the adult and we
had asked him to please...
00:09:34.51\00:09:39.99
his history. Right. And we would
ask him to please follow that
00:09:41.79\00:09:45.06
and he wouldn't. So it was
always a constant stress any
00:09:45.09\00:09:48.52
time he visited. Had Wayne acted
like his father and not had an
00:09:48.55\00:09:53.85
accountability and behaving
in that way, like I told Wayne I
00:09:53.88\00:09:57.83
would have never married him.
00:09:57.86\00:09:58.83
But with the accountability
it was so much different.
00:09:58.84\00:10:02.99
Now you told me once that when
you were first considering all
00:10:03.02\00:10:08.83
of this, your mother walked
in the room. Tell me that story
00:10:08.86\00:10:11.61
very briefly, because
we're going to talk about this
00:10:11.64\00:10:14.01
recovery but part of your
recovery, Wayne, what impresses
00:10:14.04\00:10:18.68
me is that God has led you that
you're so honest and open that
00:10:18.71\00:10:22.92
as you share even with those
who have suffered childhood
00:10:22.95\00:10:27.93
sexual abuse there's a healing.
So share what your mother had
00:10:27.96\00:10:31.48
to say, Sherri. Right,
well I was contemplating
00:10:31.51\00:10:36.01
what I'd heard from Wayne
one day and my mother had walked
00:10:36.04\00:10:39.89
into the room and she's
like, What's going on Sherri?
00:10:39.92\00:10:43.02
I'm like, Oh, I'm just thinking
about Wayne and myself and she's
00:10:43.05\00:10:48.11
like, Well, he seems like a nice
guy, Sherri. And I'm like, well
00:10:48.14\00:10:51.15
yes he's a really nice guy, I
go but you know we all have some
00:10:51.18\00:10:55.75
issues, Mom, and baggage. And
she goes, Well come on Sherri
00:10:55.78\00:11:00.55
it's not like he's a child
molester or something and I went
00:11:00.58\00:11:03.99
Well Mom, have a seat. And she
sat down next to me and I said
00:11:04.02\00:11:10.68
actually he has child
molestation in his background.
00:11:10.71\00:11:16.81
He has molested Monica. And
she's like, What. So we had a
00:11:16.84\00:11:22.17
long talk and she's like, well
I would like to talk with Wayne,
00:11:22.20\00:11:25.96
she said, because I have
some hurts in my life because my
00:11:25.99\00:11:30.71
grandfather, her father, had
molested her as a child and she
00:11:30.74\00:11:39.23
wanted to talk to Wayne about
some of the issues. And I always
00:11:39.26\00:11:41.51
remember as a kid mom always
telling me, I mean, I never went
00:11:41.54\00:11:45.83
over to that grandfather's house
and spent the night or anything
00:11:45.86\00:11:49.22
and she always said, If grand
father touches you in a way
00:11:49.25\00:11:52.61
please let me know but
it never happened to me.
00:11:52.64\00:11:55.29
So let's talk about what you
did how God brought you through
00:11:55.32\00:12:04.14
recovery and what you would
prescribe for someone who is
00:12:04.17\00:12:07.56
coming out of this or anyone
who knows someone who is a
00:12:07.59\00:12:11.56
registered child molester or
sex offender or someone who may
00:12:11.59\00:12:16.55
have actually gone through this
themselves. What process did God
00:12:16.58\00:12:20.60
bring you through?
Well, initially some of it was
00:12:20.63\00:12:23.35
outside my control. After I
made the initial call to Child
00:12:23.38\00:12:26.66
Protective Services that started
a process that everyone in this
00:12:26.69\00:12:30.32
situation has to go through.
The system is set up to protect
00:12:30.35\00:12:33.27
the children and to isolate them
from the abuser. That has to
00:12:33.30\00:12:37.96
happen. So in my case I had
to move out of my home. I had to
00:12:37.99\00:12:40.29
move out. I had to get
into therapy with a licensed who
00:12:40.32\00:12:44.20
specializes in sex offenders.
But it does have a lot to do
00:12:44.23\00:12:50.79
with the person's own response.
If they are in denial, if they
00:12:50.82\00:12:55.80
deny doing anything wrong, that
will hold back their recovery,
00:12:55.83\00:12:58.65
that will hold back any sort
of progress whatsoever. Really
00:12:58.68\00:13:02.21
the therapeutic process is
there if someone is wanting and
00:13:02.24\00:13:05.63
willing to get help and that has
to be the first step, to ask for
00:13:05.66\00:13:09.92
help and want it. Then do the
hard work of facing the dirt in
00:13:09.95\00:13:14.17
your life. There is some real
dirt. But the only way you can
00:13:14.20\00:13:17.58
get cleaned up is to first face
the dirt and then get busy, get
00:13:17.61\00:13:22.57
busy with starting to clean up.
In my case, getting cleaned up
00:13:22.60\00:13:25.92
was recognizing the selfishness
in my life the self-centeredness
00:13:25.95\00:13:31.65
the looking at women and, in
this case children, as objects.
00:13:31.68\00:13:40.86
I mean, that empathy
training really was important to
00:13:40.89\00:13:44.16
recognize people are thinking,
feeling persons, they're souls;
00:13:44.19\00:13:48.14
especially children. Children
are powerless. They don't have
00:13:48.17\00:13:52.49
the maturity to resist this kind
of a grooming behavior or molest
00:13:52.52\00:13:58.20
behavior... Stop for
just a second, because
00:13:58.23\00:14:00.06
you used a word that some
of our people won't understand.
00:14:00.09\00:14:03.17
In you're empathy training, you
were taught to see the children
00:14:03.20\00:14:08.24
no longer as objects but as
precious souls, but you said the
00:14:08.27\00:14:13.19
grooming behavior.
What is grooming behavior?
00:14:13.22\00:14:17.07
Grooming behavior is the
investment in time by an abuser
00:14:17.10\00:14:23.26
to develop a situation of trust
with a potential victim and it's
00:14:23.29\00:14:27.86
kind of like a terrorist
cell. The person is waiting and
00:14:27.89\00:14:32.40
waiting and waiting until there
are some signs of trust and
00:14:32.43\00:14:36.91
the person who is an abuser will
attempt to develop situations
00:14:36.94\00:14:41.77
that are lower risk to see what
the level is of acceptance from
00:14:41.80\00:14:46.93
a child and getting their trust.
Almost universally abuse victims
00:14:46.96\00:14:52.65
are known by their perpetrator,
usually in the home or a close
00:14:52.68\00:14:56.64
relative, and that's just a sad
fact. There is where there is
00:14:56.67\00:15:00.53
already built in trust so that
grooming is building that trust
00:15:00.56\00:15:04.73
to eventually get to the point
of taking advantage of it and
00:15:04.76\00:15:08.80
causing an action
of committing an abuse.
00:15:08.83\00:15:11.37
So as you're going through this
process yourself, you've been
00:15:11.40\00:15:15.01
isolated from your daughter,
your children, and you had three
00:15:15.04\00:15:19.84
children, is that correct...
That's correct. The girl and two
00:15:19.87\00:15:22.52
boys. Now you have reestablished
the relationship with your
00:15:22.55\00:15:26.27
daughter now. Yes.
What about with your sons?
00:15:26.30\00:15:29.24
Well, my younger son was
actually too young to really
00:15:29.27\00:15:32.40
understand about all this too
much. As he was older and all
00:15:32.43\00:15:36.77
three of my kids were shared
basically my testimony in the
00:15:36.80\00:15:40.88
therapeutic environment, at the
time I felt it was too early.
00:15:40.91\00:15:44.27
I was kind of forced into it
but my younger son never really
00:15:44.30\00:15:52.20
disconnected from us, but my
older son did and to this day
00:15:52.23\00:15:56.62
it's still a matter of earnest
prayer about him that he would
00:15:56.65\00:16:01.46
come to the Lord some day and
yes, certainly it is my heart's
00:16:01.49\00:16:06.96
that he would come back to our
family because he has cut off
00:16:06.99\00:16:09.33
relationship not only with me
but the whole rest of his family
00:16:09.36\00:16:12.36
Very destructive, and that's
what I wanted to emphasize for
00:16:12.39\00:16:15.32
people who are caught up in
this is that the abuse goes much
00:16:15.35\00:16:19.27
beyond just the initial victim
and the perpetrator. It has
00:16:19.30\00:16:22.86
rings and rings and rings
like a drop in a pond and the
00:16:22.89\00:16:27.13
repercussions go on for a life
time. My daughter will continue
00:16:27.16\00:16:32.72
to have to deal with this even
though she doesn't recall the
00:16:32.75\00:16:35.40
actual abuse. She knows it
happened and her relationships
00:16:35.43\00:16:39.13
with men, with others, are
affected by it. It doesn't mean
00:16:39.16\00:16:43.93
her life is over, it does not
mean that a perpetrator's life
00:16:43.96\00:16:47.98
is over or an abuse victim, but
there are consequences and we
00:16:48.01\00:16:51.83
to face them and ask for Jesus'
strength to help us through them
00:16:51.86\00:16:55.26
and he will. Now that may sound
like a cliché but by faith God
00:16:55.29\00:16:59.90
is nothing if he is not
interested in healing our
00:16:59.93\00:17:03.05
problems, healing our wounds
that are festering and open.
00:17:03.08\00:17:06.53
Sometimes there are scars that
are left but a scar is better
00:17:06.56\00:17:11.71
than a festering
wound. My hero has scars.
00:17:11.74\00:17:17.48
So you go through the counseling
and, by the way, your wife
00:17:17.51\00:17:22.57
divorced you, your daughter
didn't have anything to do with
00:17:22.60\00:17:26.05
you for several years. You were
arrested. You are now registered
00:17:26.08\00:17:31.63
you went through all of these
consequences. What do you think,
00:17:31.66\00:17:36.04
is it important that
abusers are punished?
00:17:36.07\00:17:38.96
Oh, absolutely. Why? Absolutely.
Well because God says so for one
00:17:38.99\00:17:44.08
Okay. God chastens those that he
loves. That should always be our
00:17:44.11\00:17:49.62
example is God's word and how
he deals with us. As parents, as
00:17:49.65\00:17:53.33
fathers of our children we
chasten those we love. At that
00:17:53.36\00:17:59.34
time the Bible says that
chastening may not be welcome,
00:17:59.37\00:18:03.07
it's grievous; but it's
important. Why? Because if you
00:18:03.10\00:18:07.68
do not deal with it and
have consequences the chances of
00:18:07.71\00:18:11.28
repeating the behavior are
much, much higher, much higher.
00:18:11.31\00:18:14.87
Because really in your case,
Wayne, when you called Child
00:18:14.90\00:18:20.58
Protective Services yourself to
report yourself and you turned
00:18:20.61\00:18:24.40
yourself in to the police.
But you still didn't feel that
00:18:24.43\00:18:29.91
empathy for your daughter.
You were still caught up in this
00:18:29.94\00:18:33.47
selfish thing about what was
going on with your life. So you
00:18:33.50\00:18:37.37
go through the chastisement, you
go through the therapy and now
00:18:37.40\00:18:43.28
you understand what it is. You
spent 72 days in jail. 75 days.
00:18:43.31\00:18:49.69
75 days in jail and eight years
probation. Now once you've made
00:18:49.72\00:18:55.59
that step, how do
you prevent a relapse?
00:18:55.62\00:19:00.03
It's by taking seriously what's
called the relapse prevention
00:19:00.06\00:19:04.95
model or technique and that is
something that an abuser would
00:19:04.99\00:19:10.45
learn in therapy. It's basically
having physical boundaries to
00:19:10.49\00:19:15.91
abuse initially. It's very
difficult to abuse a child if
00:19:15.95\00:19:18.87
the child is not in your
physical presence. So that's
00:19:18.90\00:19:21.75
got to be the first thing. Okay.
I do not isolate myself with
00:19:21.78\00:19:26.43
children at all, ever. It is not
because I'm afraid I might abuse
00:19:26.47\00:19:30.56
them. There is not urge to abuse
and that's God. That is only God
00:19:30.60\00:19:34.65
that transforms the heart
and the mind and it takes time.
00:19:34.69\00:19:38.21
That took time for that to
really happen. But while I was
00:19:38.24\00:19:41.58
going through that therapy
process and learning these
00:19:41.62\00:19:44.89
techniques you have to have in
place what you are going to do
00:19:44.92\00:19:50.00
when a situation presents
itself. You cannot rely on
00:19:50.03\00:19:53.34
yourself, you cannot
trust yourself. Self-distrust is
00:19:53.37\00:19:56.61
important here. You have to
have an escape mechanism already
00:19:56.64\00:19:59.97
in place when situations come up
like going through the grocery
00:20:00.01\00:20:03.43
store aisle. If there's a kid
in the cereal aisle and there's
00:20:03.46\00:20:06.57
no one else around, I go down
a different aisle. Again, not
00:20:06.60\00:20:09.44
because I'm going to do anything
to the child, it's just that I
00:20:09.48\00:20:12.59
don't want to be in a situation
ever for anyone to say, You know
00:20:12.62\00:20:17.38
what, that guy, I saw him over
there. That's just the way life
00:20:17.41\00:20:21.83
is. We have a friend who has two
daughters and a son and the son
00:20:21.86\00:20:25.82
injured himself severely. He put
his are through a glass window
00:20:25.86\00:20:30.68
as they were playing around.
She called us to get help. She
00:20:30.71\00:20:34.76
wanted us to watch the girls
while she took the son to the
00:20:34.79\00:20:38.31
hospital. Well, Sherri wasn't
home; she was actually at prison
00:20:38.35\00:20:42.56
ministry. I told this lady, I
said, Well, I can't do that and
00:20:42.60\00:20:47.11
she's frantic. She's what, your
not going to help me? I said
00:20:47.14\00:20:51.29
I can't do that, but what I
can do is I can take you all
00:20:51.32\00:20:55.40
down to the hospital. She says,
Wayne, no big deal... I can't do
00:20:55.43\00:21:02.19
it, I can't do it. So
it's kind of like having a
00:21:02.22\00:21:10.58
fire plan for a fire escape
plan. Exactly. You make sure
00:21:10.62\00:21:13.46
that you don't put yourself
in a position where you could
00:21:13.49\00:21:16.26
either be falsely accused or,
as you just got through saying,
00:21:16.30\00:21:19.01
even though you don't feel the
urge, you don't want to ever put
00:21:19.05\00:21:22.24
that much trust in yourself to
think that you could ever repeat
00:21:22.28\00:21:28.89
such a horrible situation. Now
what about when you meet people?
00:21:28.92\00:21:34.08
Do you let people know before
you're around their children?
00:21:34.11\00:21:38.54
What do you do? If I were to
invite you over for Sabbath and
00:21:38.58\00:21:42.11
tell you come to our house
to Sabbath and I've got small
00:21:42.14\00:21:45.63
children, what
would you do with me?
00:21:45.67\00:21:47.48
Well, I would have to say no,
politely, until there was a time
00:21:47.51\00:21:52.46
where we could share enough of
this testimony so you'd be very
00:21:52.50\00:21:58.22
clear on where the ground rules
are. This happened early on when
00:21:58.26\00:22:03.95
I was shopping for a church.
You know, we said train up a
00:22:03.99\00:22:07.09
child in the way he should
go, he'll not depart from it.
00:22:07.12\00:22:10.15
Well, I had some Adventist roots
Christian roots. I got saved by
00:22:10.19\00:22:15.15
going through the court process.
I was having Bible studies with
00:22:15.19\00:22:19.70
a gentleman who I saw in court
and he shared his walk with the
00:22:19.74\00:22:23.90
Lord. We studied till I finally
got plugged into a church.
00:22:23.94\00:22:29.07
I shared with the pastor that
very first day and we spent four
00:22:29.11\00:22:33.26
hours and he invited me back
the next Sabbath, so praise God.
00:22:33.29\00:22:37.26
Then later in the singles group
I shared with the treasurer of
00:22:37.30\00:22:41.28
the church. Between those two
men there was an accountability
00:22:41.32\00:22:45.27
there. All during that
time I was not involved in any
00:22:45.30\00:22:47.77
children's programs or anything
like that, although I did bring
00:22:47.80\00:22:51.28
my children. I mean, I had my
three little children who were
00:22:51.32\00:22:55.26
with me. Over the course of that
first year, we had a spiritual
00:22:55.29\00:22:59.09
gifts seminar and the church was
becoming very close and sharing
00:22:59.13\00:23:03.54
their concerns and worries and
problems, some of the bickering
00:23:03.58\00:23:07.54
and problems in the church, you
know. I was a baby Christian.
00:23:07.58\00:23:11.35
I couldn't imagine there would
be this many problems. But what
00:23:11.39\00:23:14.93
happened is a lady who shared
how her son had been a victim
00:23:14.96\00:23:18.50
of child abuse and she needed
help from the church. She needed
00:23:18.54\00:23:22.41
encouragement and support
through this and I was strongly
00:23:22.44\00:23:26.09
moved to come up and talk next
and I asked the treasurer and
00:23:26.13\00:23:29.34
the pastor. I said, I'm feeling
like now is the time. There were
00:23:29.37\00:23:32.55
50 people in our church.
They said, We're with you Wayne.
00:23:32.58\00:23:36.58
So I shared this testimony. I
tell you, there's nothing like
00:23:36.61\00:23:40.81
the power of the Holy Spirit
moving on people in forgiveness
00:23:40.84\00:23:45.32
and love, even in spite of
the dirt and the filth that is
00:23:45.36\00:23:49.45
obviously there. God is in
the business of healing and he
00:23:49.49\00:23:53.41
brought tremendous healing.
I had 50 people to which I was
00:23:53.44\00:23:57.03
accountable just in that
afternoon and that church has
00:23:57.06\00:24:01.29
been a source of accountability
and love ever since.
00:24:01.32\00:24:05.48
I remember sharing this is
why I can't go with you when you
00:24:05.51\00:24:10.11
invite me home after church
to spend time and fellowship or
00:24:10.15\00:24:14.31
whatever. I can do this, but I
need permission from probation.
00:24:14.35\00:24:18.94
I need a letter from you. There
are ways to do it but I need to
00:24:18.98\00:24:23.09
share. Praise God. There was
one gentleman in particular who
00:24:23.13\00:24:27.12
the very next day came to my
work with his son in his hands
00:24:27.16\00:24:30.83
and he says, So what do we need
to do, what do I have to do so
00:24:30.86\00:24:34.81
we can be friends. He and his
wife wrote a letter to probation
00:24:34.85\00:24:38.76
and we're all friends today.
The lady whose son had been
00:24:38.80\00:24:43.85
molested, you know, she heard
this testimony from an abuser
00:24:43.88\00:24:48.14
and this was only the first
year since I'm on probation.
00:24:48.18\00:24:52.13
I remember bawling, I was
bawling, there was snot coming
00:24:52.16\00:24:55.53
out my nose. I couldn't look
people in the face. They had
00:24:55.57\00:24:58.98
laid hands on me and they
had prayed and we were all down
00:24:59.01\00:25:02.36
kneeling. When we were all done
I said I just hope someday I can
00:25:02.39\00:25:06.31
look you all in the face again;
because my eyes were closed.
00:25:06.34\00:25:10.57
It was very scary but very
uplifting too at the same time.
00:25:10.61\00:25:14.78
I stood up and everybody kind
of peeled away and went back to
00:25:14.82\00:25:18.73
their seats and this lady
who had had the son who had been
00:25:18.76\00:25:22.35
abused came over to me and she
looked me right in the face and
00:25:22.39\00:25:26.66
she grabbed my face and she
said, you can look at me in the
00:25:26.70\00:25:30.64
face right now. That's healing.
I didn't realize it until
00:25:30.68\00:25:34.59
afterwards but she got
some healing right them too.
00:25:34.62\00:25:39.69
Well, there's so much to talk
about because I know your words
00:25:39.72\00:25:46.07
do heal victims when they
understand they had no part in
00:25:46.10\00:25:51.00
this. We've only got a minute
left. What would you say if
00:25:51.03\00:25:56.45
you could make an appeal to
someone who is needing recovery
00:25:56.48\00:26:01.87
or even a victim.
What would you say to them?
00:26:01.90\00:26:03.95
What I would say is first of
all for those caught up in abuse
00:26:03.99\00:26:09.33
there's no time like right now.
The Holy Spirit is moving on
00:26:09.36\00:26:13.31
your heart. I don't know when
this program is going to air,
00:26:13.34\00:26:17.01
but right now you're seeing it
and it's not by accident. God is
00:26:17.04\00:26:20.67
calling you right now to
call someone else besides God.
00:26:20.71\00:26:25.31
Be accountable to someone else,
someone you trust who will help
00:26:25.34\00:26:29.52
you through this and then watch.
God will deliver. He's in the
00:26:29.56\00:26:33.70
business of delivering people
out of the muck and mire of
00:26:33.74\00:26:36.67
this world. There will be
consequences. You may lose your
00:26:36.70\00:26:39.56
job, your marriage, you may
even go to prison. That's okay.
00:26:39.59\00:26:42.83
It doesn't compare at all to
hurting a child even one more
00:26:42.86\00:26:46.69
time. God will see you through
it. He promises to do so. Take
00:26:46.73\00:26:50.53
a hold of his hand. I
just am so thrilled how for
00:26:50.56\00:26:58.85
10 years now you all have
been married. You're involved in
00:26:58.89\00:27:01.85
several ministries. God is
using you and you're going to be
00:27:01.89\00:27:05.52
coming back and Wayne will be
sharing when he comes back with
00:27:05.55\00:27:10.39
us how churches can help in this
recovery process but also how
00:27:10.42\00:27:15.09
churches can protect themselves
because churches can become
00:27:15.12\00:27:19.77
targets for offenders and
predators. Thank you so much.
00:27:19.81\00:27:24.39
We look forward to you returning
and Sherri thank you so much.
00:27:24.42\00:27:28.80
For those of you at home, I hope
that this has been a topic that
00:27:28.84\00:27:33.92
you will pray about. It's very
serious. I don't believe there's
00:27:33.95\00:27:39.00
any church out there, any
denomination, that hasn't been
00:27:39.04\00:27:42.29
touched by this. So keep
this matter in your prayers.
00:27:42.32\00:27:45.50
Now may the grace of our Lord
Jesus Christ, the love of the
00:27:45.54\00:27:48.70
Father and the fellowship
of the Holy Spirit be with you
00:27:48.74\00:27:51.87
till we meet again.
00:27:51.91\00:27:55.54