Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Derry James
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000240
|
00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn, and welcome again to
00:32 Issues and Answers. 00:34 Today our issue is going to be surviving loss; going through 00:38 death or divorce. 00:40 This is going to be kind of a nuts and bolts type program. 00:44 It's going to be talking about some very practical things that 00:47 you might need to do to go through this process. 00:50 And it's going to be a program that brings a lot of hope. 00:53 Let me share a scripture with you. 00:55 It comes from Psalms 147:3 and it says, He heals the 01:02 broken hearted and binds up their wounds. 01:06 If you're going through any kind of grieving process today 01:10 you will find hope in the Lord, and hope in this program. 01:14 Help me welcome back Derry James. 01:17 She's a chaplain, a board certified chaplain and has a 01:20 doctorate of ministry. 01:21 She's here from Grass Valley, California. 01:23 Thank you, Derry, for joining us again. 01:27 Shelley, it's always a pleasure to come back and visit 01:29 with you here. 01:30 Well, we love you here at 3ABN. 01:32 You're a great friend to this ministry. 01:34 We appreciate the expertise that bring, and the gentle spirit 01:40 of humility, and also being a spirit filled person. 01:44 Let's talk about what the grieving process is as you're 01:50 going through death or divorce. 01:51 Let's just get right into this. 01:53 You said it's going to be nuts and bolts. 01:54 Let's get started. 01:56 What do we have to do when we're looking at death? 02:01 What are some of the steps we need to be taking? 02:03 Well, are you talking about going through 02:05 the actual grieving; the steps that we would go through 02:08 in grieving? 02:09 Because we'll just hit that very quickly and then move on to the 02:13 things that we need to take care of as we go through that whole 02:16 process of adjusting to life without the person we love. 02:19 Okay. 02:20 The grieving process itself generally starts with a 02:22 time of shock. 02:24 Then we move into the denial, or bargaining, or anger stage. 02:33 Then we go to the last stage which is that of resignation, 02:36 and reconciling with what is, and moving on from there. 02:41 That's really the area that we're going to start with today. 02:45 That's the area we're going to work with is how to move forward 02:49 through this process, and talking about nuts and bolts 02:53 and how to work with it. 02:54 If we're dealing with grief regarding death, attending to 03:01 the details there are somewhat more itemized. 03:05 I'd like to just go through a few. 03:07 It's kind of a check list, Shelley. 03:08 I have a list here. 03:09 When you're going through death you have arrange for the 03:13 funeral service of some type. 03:15 So you're going to decide which mortuary, then what kind of a 03:19 service you're gong to have. 03:21 You need to contact whoever it is you want to lead in the 03:23 services; the minister, or chaplain, or person 03:26 giving the eulogy. 03:27 Then whatever musicians you want, or whatever music you want 03:30 to have at the service. 03:31 Selecting and notifying pallbearers if you're having 03:35 a funeral and not a cremation. 03:38 Then you have to order the flowers, choose the clothes, 03:41 write the obituary, decide what memorial gifts might be 03:48 appropriate for your family, or whether you want them to go 03:51 somewhere else, order a death certificate, choose the plot or 03:57 site, arrange for family members that are coming. 04:01 We're really talking nuts and bolts here. 04:04 I said a little check list of things we need to go through 04:07 in order to arrange for the services and plan 04:12 for the actual program. 04:13 And, you know, usually, is it not true, that the funeral home 04:19 that you choose, they're going to help you through a lot 04:22 of these things? 04:23 I was just going to say that. 04:24 They will walk you through a lot of these things. 04:27 This is a quick, kind of like putting a little 04:32 seed down to let you know that there are decisions you're 04:35 going to have to make, to be aware of. 04:37 But the home, or the minister even leading the service, 04:42 is going to ask for some of these things and help lead you 04:44 through it as well. 04:45 You know, Derry, as you're saying all these things 04:47 it strikes me that my husband and I have not done any 04:52 pre-arrangement. 04:54 I can't imagine having to go through this when you are 04:59 grieving if you haven't pre-arranged some 05:01 of these things. 05:03 It must be very terrible to go through when you're grieving. 05:05 You know, one thing that may sound strange, but as I was 05:10 going through my chaplaincy training one of the assignments 05:13 we had was to look at our death and plan our 05:15 own memorial service. 05:17 I can't tell you how liberating that was, and how much peace 05:21 it brought into my life. 05:22 It gave me an opportunity to write letters to my family. 05:25 It gave me an opportunity to say this is what I would like at my 05:28 memorial service. 05:29 It gave me an opportunity to write a letter to my community 05:31 to be read there. 05:33 When I faced a death situation just about a year and a half 05:38 later, where my car almost went over the cliff, and then rolled 05:41 over, and I was still alive and unhurt, and realized that 05:45 God wasn't finished with me yet. 05:46 I had total peace through that process because everything was 05:51 right between God and me, and my fellow man and me, 05:55 to the best that I could make it. 05:57 I was prepared. 05:58 I had everything prepared. 06:00 So there really is some merit in what you're saying in making 06:04 your own arrangements; making them with your family 06:07 and having those things laid out. 06:09 It gives you a certain release and peace in your own life. 06:12 But now in sharp contrast to the nuts and bolts processes 06:17 of what you have to deal with in a death, and the fact that 06:21 there is someone there, typically professionals, who are 06:24 going to help you through that. 06:25 What about divorce? 06:28 I mean there's a lot that has to be gone through, 06:31 but you don't have someone, a divorce consultant, 06:34 that you can turn to necessarily help you 06:37 through those things. 06:38 No, and attorneys don't always know you well enough, 06:44 or know your heart's dreams, goals, and desires to even know 06:49 the right questions to ask you to give you the guidance that 06:52 you might need that they could give. 06:54 So the things that you're dealing with in divorce are to 06:58 find that attorney that suddenly is going to represent you, 07:02 and are they going to do the job, and can they be trusted? 07:06 And then it's the decision of dividing the goods that you've 07:12 gathered together, you know, and making some of those hard 07:16 decisions, and come to agreements, whether it has to do 07:20 with visitation of the children, or who's going to keep what. 07:24 I know that when I was going through my divorce 07:29 it was painfully difficult. 07:30 My prayer was, Lord help me not to keep anything 07:34 that I should let go of or let go of anything 07:36 You want me to keep. 07:37 And I hope that I heard God, but there's times that you are 07:44 so emotionally distraught, and grieving, that you wonder 07:48 if you got the signal right, you know. 07:50 You want to do right. 07:52 You want to kind of fight for what you think you're supposed 07:56 to do, or have, but you don't want to make an issue of those 07:59 things that you shouldn't. 08:00 It's such an emotionally volatile time, and your feelings 08:05 are bouncing back between love and hate, that I can't always 08:11 say that I heard God accurately. 08:13 All I can say is I tried. 08:15 You know, something, to go back to the death; something that one 08:20 of my little mother-in-law's friends told her; 08:22 a precious little lady, she was eighty years old. 08:24 Her husband died and someone told her, You don't want to live 08:29 in this home because he died in the home, so sell the home. 08:33 And within four months she put her home up for sale, 08:35 sold her home, and six months later regretted that. 08:40 And so what I tell people now when I'm counseling, 08:44 in a death situation, is don't make any major decisions 08:49 in that first year. 08:50 Give yourself some time to go through the grieving process, 08:53 because she later found that she would have had more comfort 08:58 being in the home surrounded by the memories, 09:00 where their children had grown up, and so she regretted it. 09:04 I can imagine that there's many things, many decisions that you 09:08 do make after death, or after divorce, that you may look back 09:13 on with some regret or questioning. 09:16 Oh sure, and it's the same thing about the home. 09:18 Do you want out of this house because there's so many 09:21 memories, both good and unhappy? 09:24 Or is this where my children grew up and they'll come back, 09:29 and want to come back to the home? 09:31 And sometimes that is the security the children have, 09:34 and they want to come back there, and other times 09:36 they don't want to have anything to do with coming back to that 09:38 house because of the memories. 09:40 If the children are young that's the consideration 09:43 that you have to weigh is if you can keep the home, 09:46 whether it would be better and more stable for the children. 09:49 So in this, I'm seeing that as we're discussing then, 09:52 would you recommend that someone who's going through a divorce, 09:57 particularly if they have young children, maybe see a counselor 10:00 that could lead them through that process to consider 10:03 the children's feelings as well as their own, and not to make 10:06 rash decisions? 10:08 Well, actually, the children probably would need an interview 10:11 with a counselor to find out where the children really are 10:14 as well, because there are multiple issues that come 10:17 up with that. 10:18 But the children certainly need support during a time like this. 10:21 There's a time of adjustment for the whole family 10:25 whether it's death or divorce. 10:28 Let's just call it loss, because both of them are loss, 10:32 and there is that adjustment time. 10:34 It's kind of taking a deep breath and regrouping, 10:37 and not making any major decisions during that period 10:40 at all because you're emotionally unstable, 10:43 no matter how strong you want to be, hope you would be, 10:47 or would like to be. 10:48 So it's just kind of taking a deep breath and adjusting 10:55 to these whole new circumstances. 10:57 It's a matter of being able to get to the point of purging; 11:03 purging those things that would cause you to hang onto what was, 11:09 instead of moving into what is and what will be. 11:13 From a state of loss to living in a healthy spot of living 11:20 in the memories of the good, and not hanging on 11:24 and trying to make something be that is not. 11:27 So in the purging, I'm thinking more for example, of it's time 11:34 now to clean out the closet. 11:35 With the loss of a husband, if they're not tools that I can 11:40 use, it's time now to let go now of those tools. 11:43 Give them to the children, or give them to the church, 11:46 or sell them, or whatever, but it's time now to purge out 11:51 those things that would become cumbersome in your life; 11:55 baggage, so to speak, that are causing you to stay in the past. 12:00 But what about if it's not lost through death, but perhaps 12:05 lost by divorce? 12:06 Sometimes people in their irrational moments following a 12:14 divorce will go through their albums and cut out 12:17 the spouses pictures, you know, cut every picture in half, 12:20 and destroy every remembrance of this. 12:23 I even had a friend who did this when her children 12:25 were very young, and then the ex-husband died a couple 12:30 of years later, and they had no pictures. 12:32 I mean, thankfully, they got a few pictures of when he was 12:35 younger from the grandmother, but really she robbed her 12:39 children of those pictures. 12:40 She said that's something she really regretted doing 12:43 because she got over the anger with her husband later, 12:47 and she regretted not saving those pictures. 12:49 And anger is a part of grieving. 12:51 That is a very normal part of grieving as well. 12:54 But not only is it a part of grieving, but it's a part of the 12:58 whole experience of everything you're going through, 13:03 and the interactions of making decisions. 13:05 I mean anger is so normal. 13:07 It's so normal because in divorce we become 13:13 self protective. 13:14 Women can become very insecure and frightened. 13:17 They're worried for their future, and so they want to 13:20 hang on and fight for everything, because they don't 13:23 know what the future holds. 13:24 So, you're right, and I'm glad you brought that up. 13:28 And the purging, particularly in divorce, because we're angry 13:31 or have negative emotions towards that spouse. 13:34 We certainly don't want to do destructive things that are 13:38 going to affect our family and children later. 13:40 So when you go through part of this adjusting process, 13:45 the purging really is a part of the adjusting process, 13:49 how do you transition? 13:50 Again I'm thinking of a friend who lost her husband to death. 13:56 And she said, I need to avoid grocery stores because, 14:00 she said, I go into the grocery store and I buy so much food, 14:03 and I come home and it wastes. 14:05 She's still buying for two, but she's lost her appetite 14:09 in the first place. 14:10 She buys all this food and brings it home, 14:13 and it doesn't get prepared. 14:15 There's all these transitions in learning how to, 14:19 for maybe a man who's getting a divorce, learning how to cook 14:21 for himself. 14:22 Can you address some of those issues? 14:24 Well, some of that I can, and I can do it relatively well, 14:28 Shelley, and some of it I can't, because I have to tell you, 14:31 as a mom, I used to make huge meals all the time. 14:35 You know, I had those seven boys that ate like two people apiece, 14:38 so I made humongous amounts of food, and then I entertained 14:42 a lot; still do entertain some. 14:45 But now I'm down to just cooking for me and it is so hard, 14:50 because I love to cook anyway. 14:52 It is so hard for me to cook for just one. 14:55 It's like I'm cooking and giving food away, or I cook it and I 14:58 freeze it, or I eat it for a week, you know. 15:01 So that is still... that's not a strong point for me to talk, 15:04 about, mainly because I love to cook, and because I end up with 15:07 so much myself. 15:08 But there are the people, for example, it could be a man 15:14 or a woman, that have never cooked. 15:17 Their spouse did all the cooking, and suddenly they 15:21 haven't a clue even how to make a sandwich. 15:23 And I'm serious about that. 15:25 It is some very heart rending cases that I go through with 15:31 some of our patients and their families where they have no clue 15:34 how to take care of themselves at all in the kitchen. 15:37 They don't know how to prepare anything. 15:39 Or you have one or other of the spouses that have never 15:43 paid the bills, and it could be either one. 15:45 And sometimes you'll find, particularly with women, 15:48 you'll find a woman who's never driven. 15:50 Her husband's always driven the car. 15:52 That's hard for me to imagine, in this day and age, and yet 15:55 I just ran into that case where a woman who was sixty-five 15:59 had never driven. 16:00 They lived in a small town with one car. 16:03 He had driven everywhere. 16:04 He was a pharmacist. 16:05 So she was very frightened to go get her drivers license. 16:09 Bless her heart! 16:10 When she did she found such liberty that now her kids say 16:13 that they can't keep up with her. 16:14 You have the same situation with people that have never gone 16:20 grocery shopping, for example, or never done any shopping. 16:23 I mean this becomes this transitional time, 16:27 becomes a time of new orientation, 16:31 a time of education, a time that's 16:34 extremely stressful. 16:36 Some people, some men, have no clue what to put together; 16:41 shirt and pants, and they've depended upon their 16:43 wife to help them get dressed. 16:45 I man we're talking nitty gritty, down to earth, 16:52 facts of life that people now are struggling with 16:56 as they have to not only go through this grief, 16:59 but transition to a whole new lifestyle for themselves. 17:02 It's kind of like bite the bullet. 17:06 Get someone that can educate you and help you. 17:10 Don't throw up your hands and give up, or jump in bed 17:13 and pull the covers over your head and hide. 17:15 The problem isn't going to go away. 17:17 So what would you say to children who have lost a parent 17:24 and they have a surviving parent who is needing this help? 17:28 It's a precarious position because you don't want to be 17:32 condescending to your parent. 17:34 But if you see your parent struggling, and they're not 17:36 reaching out, how would you counsel someone who might, 17:40 you know, a child who has a father that the mother's died 17:44 and now they see their father acting helpless. 17:46 How do you approach someone like this and just let them know, 17:49 I'm here if you need me? 17:50 Well, when you say child, I'm thinking of younger children. 17:55 and then I hear you also talking adult children. 17:59 So we're talking both, so let's look at children, 18:03 younger children first of all. 18:04 Let's say even children from seven to their teen years, 18:09 or early teens, and one parent has died, 18:12 and the other parent is not dealing with it well. 18:16 This is a very, very dangerous situation where if the mother 18:21 dies, for example, the young girl will try to step up 18:24 and take mom's place, and suddenly has to become the 18:28 little adult overnight; making all the meals, 18:31 cleaning the house, running the home. 18:33 Not that she shouldn't help participate in that, 18:36 but certainly not that the whole responsibility should be on her 18:39 shoulders; not that she should feel she has to assume Mommies 18:42 position, because we're robbed of our childhood enough, 18:47 you know, and to have to give it up any sooner than we need to 18:52 is not healthy. 18:54 It's not good. 18:55 So we have that prospect where we would hope that a loving 19:00 family member, another older sister to the husband, 19:06 sister-in-law, someone would come in and talk to the husband 19:08 and say, you know, we need to help you get with the program, 19:14 so to speak. 19:15 You know, then if we have, we're talking older children 19:18 that are seeing a parent in this position, those older children 19:21 might need to come alongside of mom and dad and say, 19:24 We know that, for example, dad always took care of this 19:29 for you, and we realize this is a situation that's going 19:33 to be very difficult. 19:34 Mom we want to stay for the next weekend, week, whatever, 19:38 and we want to help you learn now to do this so that you can 19:42 be more self sufficient. 19:45 We need to help a person have as much autonomy as possible 19:51 without walking in and taking the responsibility off 19:54 of their shoulders. 19:55 We need to help them develop the independence that gives a sense 19:59 of value and self-worth instead of helplessness 20:02 and hopelessness. 20:03 There's so many things to consider here, and it occurs to 20:09 me that the church needs to be a place where people can turn. 20:14 Often we are so... everybody's life these days, Derry, 20:21 as you well know, we're all screaming for more time. 20:25 I know my constant prayer is, Lord redeem my time, 20:28 because it seems like more and more is crowded into my 20:32 schedule on a daily basis, and I worry sometimes. 20:36 I travel a lot so I worry that I'm not as much help to my 20:40 church members as I could be. 20:42 But what could churches do to reach out and help; like with 20:47 committees, maybe forming a committee or having programs 20:51 where you teach how to budget, how to reconcile your checkbook. 20:55 I mean there needs to be something that churches, 20:58 some advice to our churches. 21:00 Well, you've just said some of it. 21:03 Although it would be probably a little difficult to say, 21:06 Well, we're having a class tonight on how to 21:08 balance your checkbook. 21:09 Although a lot of our younger generation have no clue how 21:12 to balance a checkbook either. 21:14 So many of the things we're talking about are just daily 21:18 living things that if we realize a particular need in our church, 21:21 whatever that need is, Shelley, then that's the type of a 21:26 program that we should put into effect. 21:29 I'm not just talking about this, but if we know the temperament 21:33 the personality, and the needs of our congregation, 21:36 then those are the things that we need to focus on 21:39 assisting people with. 21:40 If it's not that we have several that are interested, 21:43 then certainly we should do this on a one to one basis. 21:46 You know it's very scriptural that the older women come 21:50 alongside of the younger women and train them. 21:52 It doesn't matter how old you are, there's someone older 21:55 than you who can help you, that you can learn from, 21:58 that can be a role model to you. 21:59 And sometimes, you know, younger people may have to be a role 22:03 model to a widowed woman. 22:05 I mean they may have to get in and teach her how to use the 22:08 internet, for example, or do something like that. 22:11 Right, but be family, be family. 22:14 You know, we're back to that the problem with loneliness, 22:18 and aloneness, and the need for companionship, the need for 22:22 community, the need for being part of. 22:25 And so the people that are having the issues, 22:29 whether it's knowing how to cook, or whether it's knowing 22:33 how to balance a checkbook, they really need to have the 22:38 freedom, and not fear admitting I have a problem in this area, 22:43 and I need help. 22:44 As we are talking about surviving the loss of death 22:49 or divorce, it occurs to me Lamentations 3:22, 23 says that 22:56 God's mercies are new every morning. 22:59 Great is His faithfulness. 23:00 He is a God of new beginnings. 23:03 How can we give our audience, the people who are watching or 23:08 are listening to us right now, some hope that God is the 23:12 God of new beginnings? 23:13 Well, I was going to close with this scripture, Shelley, 23:16 but it seems like a good time to speak it forth right now. 23:19 I'd like to read Revelation 21 where it says, Now... 23:24 It's talking about the new heaven and earth coming down 23:27 again, and the New Jerusalem, and the Holy City and it says, 23:31 Now the dwelling of God is with men and he will live with them. 23:34 They will be his people and God himself will be with them, 23:37 and be their God. 23:38 The next verse says, He will wipe every tear from their eyes. 23:43 There will be no more death or mourning, or crying, or pain, 23:47 for the old order of things has passed away. 23:50 And then it says, He who is seated on the throne says, 23:52 I'm making everything new. 23:54 And then he said, write this down, for these words are 23:56 trustworthy and true. 23:58 No matter what we go through in life, no matter what tragedy, 24:04 or no matter what joy, for that matter, God loves to share it 24:09 with us, Shelley. 24:10 Amen. 24:11 He wants to be right there by our side, and as we know, 24:14 the old poem Footprints. 24:16 Sometimes He's just carrying us as we make it through. 24:20 But our hope for new beginnings, our hope for vital new 24:24 beginnings can come best as we turn to Jesus, and we say, 24:29 I can't do this. 24:30 I can't do this by myself. 24:32 I can't do this on my own. 24:35 This is too big for me. 24:36 This is too much for me. 24:38 I need you. 24:39 I need help. 24:40 I need you to send me someone. 24:42 God hears the prayers of His people when they cry out to Him. 24:47 Amen. 24:48 And over and over in scripture when we cry out to God, 24:51 God comes and answers right away. 24:54 He hears us cry out to Him. 24:57 And He sees the tears of His children. 24:58 And our hope for tomorrow, our strength for today, comes when 25:04 we turn to scripture, and again we cling to those promises 25:07 of God and personalize them. 25:09 As we turn to God and say, Take my hand. 25:12 I don't even have the strength to hang on. 25:14 And just ask God to take over where we can't do anything. 25:18 To lift us up; lift up our heads. 25:22 Amen. 25:23 And, you know, I think about we began this program talking 25:27 from Psalms 147:3 that He binds the wounds of the brokenhearted; 25:33 heals the brokenhearted, binds up their wounds. 25:35 Now I know for you, that you went back to school 25:39 after your divorce, didn't you? 25:41 Actually, I started school before my divorce, 25:44 and it was when I got my chaplaincy job that the divorce 25:47 happened, but I was setting up a new chaplains department. 25:49 As we reach out to others, that was my salvation. 25:54 As I gave myself to others, in their hurt and their pain, 25:59 God brought healing to my hurt and my pain. 26:01 And Him teaching you to praise Him to get beyond that 26:05 lump in your throat. 26:06 That's right. 26:07 But He certainly did give you a new beginning. 26:09 And we just want to leave everyone who's watching 26:12 with this hope is that Jeremiah 29:11, God says, 26:17 He has a plan for your life. 26:19 And, let me tell you something, it's better than the 26:22 one we're living. 26:23 He wants to prosper you; to give you hope and a future. 26:25 And so this is something that everybody is going to go 26:30 through this adjustment process. 26:33 They're going to have to go through the purging process, 26:36 They're going to then have to go through the transition, 26:39 but just recognizing that God is the God of new beginnings. 26:43 Amen. 26:45 That's right. 26:46 Derry, you are just a very special person, 26:48 and I just want to thank you so much for being here. 26:50 Thank you, Shelley. 26:51 I enjoy it always. 26:53 I enjoy being here and sharing. 26:56 I'll look forward to another time together. 26:59 Well, me too, and we just want to thank you once again for 27:04 all of your compassion that shines forth, and for everything 27:08 that you do when you come here to 3ABN. 27:10 I know you're going to be staying with us a little while, 27:12 and volunteering. 27:14 We thank you for that. 27:15 For those of you at home, I hope if you know anyone that's going 27:19 through this grieving process, help them to understand 27:23 what they're going through is normal. 27:24 Be there for them. 27:26 Be a listening ear, a caring shoulder, and point them 27:30 toward Jesus. 27:31 You know, if we keep our eyes on the problem solver, 27:34 rather than the problem, He promises in Isaiah 26:3 to keep 27:40 us in perfect peace, if we will keep our minds steadfastly 27:44 fixed on Him, trusting in Him. 27:46 Now may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of the 27:50 Father, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you. 27:53 Thank you. |
Revised 2014-12-17