Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Derry James
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000239
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:32 And welcome again to "Issues and Answers." 00:34 Today, our issue is going to be 00:36 "Working through Grief and Bereavement." 00:39 And if you are in this process, 00:42 I want to give you a promise from God. 00:44 Psalm 3:3. Let me read this to you. 00:47 It says, "You, oh, Lord, are a shield for me, 00:51 my glory, and the lifter of my head." 00:55 I'm impressed to say a prayer for you even now. 00:58 Heavenly Father, I ask in the name of Jesus 01:00 for all who are watching or listening to my voice. 01:04 If they are going through grief, 01:06 I pray You will cup Your hand under their chin. 01:09 Help them, Lord, lift them, lift their head 01:12 and help them to look to Jesus, 01:14 the author and finisher of the faith in Jesus' name. 01:19 Amen. Amen. 01:20 We have with us today 01:22 joining us once again, Chaplain Derry James. 01:26 She has a Doctor of Ministry, a board certified chaplain. 01:30 And she is from Spring Valley. 01:33 Grass Valley. Grass valley. 01:35 Well, that was close enough. Grass Valley, California. 01:38 Derry, I'm so glad you are back again. 01:40 Thank you, Shelly. 01:41 I know this topic is close to your heart 01:44 because when I heard some of your personal story. 01:48 It seems that the experiences 01:52 through which you have walked in your life 01:55 prepared you in advance to be a compassionate chaplain. 02:01 Why don't you share with us some of the personal loss 02:05 that you've experienced in your life? 02:08 Well, Shelly, my first deep personal lost was 02:12 when my seven-year-old sister died, I was a freshman. 02:16 And she got the measles that developed into pneumonia 02:20 and then into encephalitis. 02:23 And then the following year, 02:25 my father died of coronary heart failure. 02:28 He and my mom were in process of divorce 02:31 at the time when that happened. 02:34 Then I lost my grandmother to cancer, 02:37 and then we lost our 25-year-old son 02:43 in an automobile accident. 02:45 And following that, we lost our first granddaughter. 02:49 I raised seven sons before I gave birth to 02:52 and before I had-- 02:54 I had the privilege of raising for my ex-husband. 02:57 And our first little baby was a girl 03:02 and we lost her to SIDS apnea. 03:05 And then I lost my husband 03:10 from divorce in 1998. 03:14 So I've had a process of losses through my life. 03:20 And actually I lost my-- my father died last year 03:24 and two of my best friends last year. 03:26 So last year was a tough year as well. 03:28 You know, it reminds me looking at your story in what the-- 03:32 how the Lord is using you now. 03:34 2 Corinthians 1, it says that, 03:37 "God is the God of all comfort 03:39 who comforts us in our troubles that we may comfort others 03:43 with the same comfort that we have received from Him." 03:46 And that really is what He is doing with you now is, 03:50 He is using you as a chaplain 03:51 in a hospital in Grass Valley, California. 03:55 And you are working with people 03:58 who often are in this process of 04:01 "Working through Grief and Bereavement." 04:03 Let's talk about this process. 04:07 And what are some of the stages of grief 04:13 or just the anticipation of grief? 04:17 You know, there are sometimes when we're facing something 04:20 and we're not grieving yet because we're in a crisis 04:23 if you will, but reaching that turning point 04:26 and we know grief is coming. 04:28 We know that this is-- it could be the announcement. 04:32 We're expecting the announcement 04:34 that someone has a terminal disease perhaps. 04:39 We refer to that as anticipatory grief, Shelly. 04:43 And that really does begin kind of at the moment 04:47 you have that bad news diagnosis that comes to you 04:52 because you begin anticipating 04:54 then the rest of the life's journey 04:58 of either yourself or that person that you love 05:02 and what that is going to mean to you. 05:05 And with that anticipatory grief, 05:09 comes the loss of all the dreams 05:12 that are not going to be filled, you know. 05:16 So the death of a vision even in a divorce it-- 05:19 I mean, it's the death of a vision. 05:21 You've married and you expected to live happily ever after. 05:25 So anytime you're facing that, 05:28 if it's a child or your husband or what, 05:29 it's the death of a vision of life with that person. 05:34 Right, right, there actually we talked about 05:39 four types of grieving 05:42 and there's like that the chronic grieving 05:45 that does not subside. 05:48 And then there is the delayed or suppressed grieving, 05:51 they kind of put off or we don't acknowledge it. 05:54 And there is the exaggerated grieving 05:59 where it's just almost self-destructive. Yes. 06:04 And then there is the masked grieving 06:07 where you just don't want to face it 06:09 and yet your behavior interferes with normal activities 06:15 and not even allowing you the normal grieving process. 06:19 So I just want to touch on those, 06:23 not necessarily explore them deeply, 06:25 but to bring an awareness and also to bring 06:28 an awareness of what we call disenfranchised grief 06:33 where you can have complicated grief issues involved. 06:38 For example, people that have HIV or partners 06:46 or it could even be a secret lover that can't-- 06:51 that isn't included in the acknowledgement 06:53 of grief processing that has to hide their grief. 06:56 It could be a stepchild to a stepparent 07:01 and acknowledgement of grief. 07:03 These are like high risk issues. Yeah. 07:07 Kind of high risk issues or not the socially accepted 07:12 or morally accepted standards even that cause people 07:16 that are in these precarious positions 07:20 to have to either hide their grief or grieve alone. 07:24 We call that disenfranchised grief. I see. 07:27 But that is complicated grief 07:30 where it's very difficult for them 07:34 because they don't necessarily have anyone that can 07:36 come by their side and help them as they go through this process, 07:40 unless they know God and can turn to God in these issues. 07:48 We have children that deal with that grief 07:52 and yet as adults we can get so tied into 07:56 everything we're taking care of that. 07:58 Even at the hospital bedside as we are standing by 08:02 a person that is dying and we're grieving. 08:04 The children are usually off in the corner 08:07 and not often like right on the bed 08:10 with grandma as she's-- as she's gonna pass. 08:13 And as a chaplain, I will sometimes 08:16 immediately go to that child I see in the corner 08:20 and say in front of the adult something like, 08:23 "Boy, honey, this is really hard for you to-- 08:26 for grandma to be so sick, isn't it?" 08:29 And that immediately brings an awareness 08:31 to this child in the corner. 08:34 So--and we each grieve in our own way 08:38 and children will sometimes put off their grieving 08:42 because they think they have to be strong for their parents 08:46 and see their parents through this. 08:51 You know, when my mother died, she died literally in my arms. 08:55 She was in the hospital, but she had suffered for many years 08:59 and was lingering and they kept anticipating her death. 09:03 And finally, my sister didn't want let her go. 09:06 And so I took my sister outside of the hospital room 09:12 and I said, I feel like, my mother, 09:15 you know, our mother is waiting for us 09:17 to give her permission to die. 09:19 And I was being so strong and I walked back in 09:22 and I convinced my sister that we needed to-- 09:25 we had been praying quite a bit. 09:26 My mother was pretty much comatose, 09:29 but we've been praying for God to revive her 09:34 and we went in and I told my mother, 09:37 even though she was in the state, 09:39 I said, "Momma, we've discussed this, 09:41 we're gonna take care of one another. 09:43 You have our permission to die." 09:46 And within moments her breathing became 09:49 very relaxed and then she passed. 09:53 And she was in my arms. 09:55 And, you know, I was so prepared for this. 09:58 We had been expecting it, it was a prolonged. 10:01 My mother had complete cardiac and respiratory arrest 10:04 four years earlier and she has-- 10:06 was left paralyzed from the neck down. 10:09 And so we were expecting this death 10:13 and yet when it actually happened, 10:15 I held myself together for just a moment, 10:17 but I went outside the hospital 10:20 and I let out a wail that came some deep from down within me. 10:24 I was just mourning and just let out this horrible wail. 10:28 It was just ungodly. 10:29 I mean, I don't know how to explain it. 10:32 And my grief was upfront. 10:34 Now my sister on the other hand who usually falls to pieces, 10:39 she was very strong for the first 24 hours 10:43 then her grief was so great, 10:44 she didn't even make it to the funeral. 10:46 So everybody does grief in a different way. 10:50 And you watch people, 10:51 you know, it's sad that what we do to people, 10:54 let's say, you should be over your grief by now, you know. 10:58 Well, you're bringing up a lot of points here. 10:59 My little head is just digging going all directions right now, 11:03 but you're absolutely right. 11:04 Many times a dying person, 11:07 once they hear that the family gives them permission, 11:09 they will let go. 11:11 Another thing is, if they have been dealing 11:14 with unforgiveness issues or reconciliation issues 11:16 in the family, the minute those are resolved. 11:19 Sometimes a person will die more quickly. 11:22 Sometimes they'll hang on for days 11:23 until they can get that resolved. 11:25 Exactly true. And that's a very important issue. 11:29 Going back now to this grieving in different ways, 11:34 you have people that have 11:37 the prolonged anticipation of death 11:39 and then you have the sudden death. 11:41 And it's the sudden death is easy, 11:45 easier for the person that died, 11:47 but it's more difficult for the people that are alive 11:49 because they haven't had that opportunity to prepare 11:53 or they start having questions or they think, 11:56 If I'd only kiss them goodbye this morning before they left. 11:59 And generally-- If I'd only said, I love you. 12:00 Yes, exactly. And it's usually the more traumatic death. 12:04 So that in itself is more difficult 12:06 because it could mean a lot of disfigurement as well. 12:11 In the prolonged dying process 12:13 that you have an opportunity to face grief often on 12:16 and often on again, it does not necessarily mean 12:19 as you've expressed already 12:21 that the grieving is gonna be any easier 12:23 when the actuality comes. 12:25 And some people think, 12:27 "Oh, well, you've had all this time to deal with the grief." 12:29 But that is not necessarily. 12:31 So at the actuality of the death, 12:33 many times a person just explodes 12:35 under this horrendous grief. 12:37 And yeah, I kind of itemized in a way 12:40 all the different areas of grief that I had to walk through 12:44 and the different unexpected deaths 12:46 as well as the prolong death processes. 12:49 And, Shelly, I'll tell you, everyone was different 12:52 and how you can't guess how you're going to react. 12:56 You know, I know that when my son at 25 died, 13:01 I don't know how I walked from the living room 13:03 to the kitchen for example. 13:04 Everything I did was mechanical. 13:06 And I couldn't remember things from one minute to the next. 13:10 When you're going through grief, 13:12 one minute you want people right there by your side 13:14 and the next second you don't want anyone around you. 13:17 One minute you're capable 13:18 and the next minute, you can' think. 13:20 One minute you are crying, the next minute you're angry. 13:24 And your--those are normal grief reactions, 13:28 but you're kind of all over the map with your reactions. 13:31 So when I'm counseling families I say, 13:34 "Be gentle with yourself and be gentle with each other 13:38 because you're not even going to realize 13:41 how you're coming across 13:43 because your whole emotional responses can be so erratic 13:48 during this time 13:50 and the questions that you go through." 13:53 And when a person is going through 13:56 this last part of the dying process 13:58 and grieving it with their family members, 14:01 that's so important that they take care of themselves 14:05 during that time that they--that they eat, 14:08 that they force themselves to eat a little 14:10 that they try to get as much as sleep possible 14:13 because this is a high stress, critical time 14:16 that you're going through together 14:18 and highly volatile with the emotions. 14:23 You know, there are times 14:25 that my father-in-law had Alzheimer's 14:29 and my mother-in-law was grieving his death. 14:33 I mean, grieving his loss, I should say. 14:36 For so many years, she actually preceded him 14:39 by just a few months in death, but she was grieving his loss. 14:44 And I think sometimes we don't understand-- 14:51 We think of death is being that cut off point, 14:56 but for some people divorce, 14:58 I think divorce can sometimes be worse than death because-- 15:01 It's ongoing. 15:03 It's ongoing, there's no closure. 15:04 For someone who has perhaps a loved one 15:08 who's in a coma or a protracted illness, 15:12 something like Alzheimer's 15:14 or something that has affected their mental state 15:17 to where the person maybe physically there, 15:20 but they're no longer mentally there. 15:22 What are some of the stages of grief 15:25 that it doesn't matter whether it's from as we said, 15:29 a divorce or a protracted chronic illness or from death? 15:35 What are some of the stages of deep grief 15:36 that people go through? 15:38 Generally, the first stage and all of those are shock. 15:43 They just are shocked with the news. 15:46 Whether it's going to be prolonged illness, 15:49 whether it's the pronouncement of divorce request 15:53 or someone leaving or talking about betrayal or whatever else 15:59 or whether it's an instantaneous sudden and traumatic death. 16:04 The first reaction generally is shock in everyone. 16:08 And then after you go through that which we call stage one, 16:12 the second stage is-- has several parts to it 16:16 and you can bounce around in it. 16:18 It's not necessarily one in order of the other, 16:22 but there can be a part of denial, 16:25 there can be a part of the anger that we've already mentioned, 16:29 there can be a part of bargaining with God like, 16:33 "If you'll just--Oh, God, if You'll just save their life, 16:36 I promise I will always do this or I will never do that again." 16:41 So it's trying to work up this deal with God, 16:43 if you'll just--just save their life, Lord. 16:46 And then there could be a part of depression, 16:49 but whatever the parts of the second stage are 16:53 and you can bounce back and forth 16:54 from one to another. 16:56 You have to go through that second stage 17:00 someway before you can actually get to the third stage, 17:04 which is that reconciling with what it is 17:09 and that resignation of going on and starting over, if you will, 17:16 accepting things as they are. 17:18 Let me ask you a question. 17:20 I've a dear friend who lost her husband over a year ago, 17:23 just barely over a year ago 17:25 and there's many people who are counseling her, 17:31 not counseling with her, but giving her counsel 17:34 that it's time to get on. 17:36 How do you know when you get to that point of acceptance? 17:43 I mean, is there a certain time limit 17:47 when you should be concerned that somebody's grief 17:50 is exaggerated perhaps that they're not going on beyond? 17:55 I mean, is it a year, is it two years, 17:57 is there a time when you should be concern 17:59 that someone's not maybe turning the corner 18:01 and getting on with life? 18:04 Shelly, sometimes family members and friends 18:08 will try to rush a person's grieving more 18:12 because they're uncomfortable with it 18:14 and don't know what to do. 18:16 And to give you an exact-- 18:20 Yes, if you've grieved two years or three years 18:22 that's enough, you should move on. 18:24 Well, yeah, probably by at least three years. 18:28 You ought to be concerned 18:30 if you're still in deep grieving for sure. 18:34 You know, I've been divorced now 18:36 for almost eight or nine years 18:39 and my ex-husband is happily married, 18:41 and to be honest there were times 18:45 that I was relieved about the divorce, 18:48 but there are times even now 18:50 that occasionally I grieve what could have been. 18:54 And so, even though 18:58 you get over initial grieving in death situations. 19:03 Bryan, our second oldest son 19:05 who was killed in an automobile accident 19:07 when he was 25 back in '91, I still miss Bryan. 19:12 Do I just cry over Bryan? No. 19:15 But I do miss Bryan. Of course. 19:17 You know, and so-- 19:18 My question is, if someone seems to be 19:22 and maybe this and maybe you can't answer this question. 19:24 But what do you do if someone seems to be 19:26 pretty much still on the initial stages of grief 19:30 for a very prolong period. 19:32 If they don't seem to be advancing 19:34 should we be concerned, should they seek counseling, 19:37 if they don't seem to let go 19:43 or not necessarily let go of their grief? 19:45 But move on. Move on. 19:47 Oh, absolutely, there comes a point 19:50 where they definitely will need some assistance 19:53 and that assistance can be to see a counselor. 19:57 In my case for example, I gave myself the gift 20:00 of being part of a loss and grief support group 20:06 which was a 12 week group. 20:08 And we went through a grief and loss 20:10 handbook that made me really deal 20:13 with these deep issues and face them. 20:15 And it was painful, but it was healing for me. 20:20 And maybe if we go over some of the normal grief reactions, 20:24 it will give some definitives. Yes, please. 20:27 And because we don't need to just stay in a broken state 20:31 because we do have hope. 20:33 So there are a lot of physical reactions that can go on. 20:37 We can go anywhere 20:39 from not being able to eat to just eating like crazy 20:42 from not being able to sleep to sleeping all the time, 20:46 from having headaches 20:48 and all kinds of bodily reactions and responses. 20:51 Tight throats because our resistance is down 20:54 we become more vulnerable to diseases and so on. 20:57 We can have muscle aches. 21:00 If for example, we're married and we've lost our parent 21:03 that we were very close to, 21:05 we could even have sexual dysfunction. 21:07 We can't get ourselves into life and living. 21:11 Sometimes there is the emotional 21:14 or even cognitive thoughts of, 21:17 why should I go on and be happy when this person is gone? 21:21 So there are these guilty feelings 21:23 that a person can go through cognitively. 21:28 They can have feelings emotionally 21:30 of helplessness and hopelessness 21:32 or yearnings or sadness or shock. 21:36 They may have concern like I said 21:41 because they are experiencing any pleasure 21:43 and they try to nip the pleasure in the bud so to speak. 21:47 Particularly if they are survivor, isn't that true? 21:50 If there's been an accident, they've survived. 21:53 As far as their behavioral skills, 21:57 it may be difficult for them 21:58 to concentrate at school or at work 22:00 that may affect their productivity 22:03 or they maybe overly sensitive to noise 22:05 or overly sensitive to people around them. 22:08 They may be angry with people around them 22:09 because people around them are laughing 22:11 and enjoying life and life is going on, 22:13 but they haven't gone on yet with life. 22:17 And how could life go on when this horrible thing 22:19 has just happened, you know. 22:21 And then spiritually, they will review 22:23 the meaning of their own life or even the life of the person 22:27 that they have lost or are losing 22:29 and the contribution they go through forgiveness 22:33 or reconciliation issues, but feel a powerlessness 22:38 or struggle for a connectedness. 22:42 So those are kind of just briefly and not all inclusive 22:47 of some very normal grief reaction, Shelly. 22:50 And if these become exaggerated 22:52 for example, you kind of have to move on. 22:57 And if a person never wants to get rid 22:59 of the clothing or of the diseased 23:03 and then they've been there for a year or so 23:06 and they don't want to go through 23:07 and they don't want to let go these things, 23:09 then they need to be encouraged. 23:12 Not ridicule that they're still grieving, 23:15 but maybe a friend come along side and say, 23:18 "I know that you're having difficulty 23:20 cleaning out the closet 23:22 and I know this is painful for you. 23:24 And I just--I just want us maybe next week 23:28 I'm going to come over and help you 23:29 and we can just cry through this together. 23:33 I just want to be there to cry with you and help you, 23:36 so that we can help you get some of these things 23:39 taken care of that will help you in your healing process." 23:46 Sometimes we want to rush a person 23:48 through grieving so much. 23:50 It's like after a couple of months, 23:52 we want them to move on and that will particularly happen. 23:57 For example, for the woman that's had a miscarriage. 24:00 Yes. And maybe she is really grieving this miscarriage 24:06 and people want her to forget it. 24:07 You know, it's just a miscarriage. 24:09 You were only a few months pregnant. 24:11 And yet this woman can't let go of that. 24:13 Maybe they wanted a child for a long time 24:16 and there was a lot of hope here 24:18 and no one understands that grief. 24:21 You know, that's true even for a woman who-- 24:24 and I'm speaking from personal experience, 24:26 who really want a children 24:28 and then weren't able to have children, 24:31 maybe facing hysterectomy 24:33 before there is a grieving process 24:36 that you go through just from that loss of opportunity. 24:40 Well, we live in such a push button society, Shelly, 24:44 that people want us to snap out of it. 24:46 Okay, it's time to move on, time to get through this. 24:48 Okay, time to look up, time to, you know. 24:51 And we all grieve differently 24:53 and we all take different periods of time. 24:55 And just like I said, we bounced around 24:57 from one stage to another. 24:59 And it's not something that we can rush, 25:01 but it is something that we shouldn't swallow 25:04 and hide and pretend it's not there. 25:06 And if we swallow it, again speaking from experience, 25:09 it will surface and it will come over you 25:11 like a tidal wave, you know. 25:13 We only have a couple of minutes left. 25:15 Let's give some hope to those who are grieving. 25:18 What can we do to improve 25:24 the attitudes of our mind? 25:28 In working through grief, it helps to share our grief. 25:33 Again, I'm gonna go back to that journaling 25:35 that I've talked about before, 25:36 because it really helps to journal our feelings 25:40 and to identify a support system, 25:43 that to have people that we can turn to 25:45 when we're having a difficult time 25:47 that will help us and distract us 25:50 and look out for our needs, 25:54 and to get ourselves involved in new things in our lives. 25:58 Reach out in different ways, 25:59 get involved in new opportunities, 26:01 exercise, get involved in hobbies 26:05 or get involved in church activities. 26:08 Be able to identify when the bad times are for you 26:12 and stay away from those. 26:14 Do something else during that time 26:16 and give yourself permission to change your routine 26:19 and do things differently than you've done before. 26:22 You know, sometimes if we are so overwhelmed, 26:27 it helps to sit down and just write a letter 26:30 to the person that died. 26:32 And in that letter, talk about 26:34 all of what our hopes and dreams were 26:35 that we're not gonna get fulfilled anymore 26:37 and how we feel about the fact 26:39 that they died on us and that we're without them. 26:42 And that can be extremely therapeutic. 26:46 You know, I'm thinking about all the process 26:48 that the person goes through, 26:49 all the fears that they face 26:52 and all the grieving again of lost dreams. 26:56 And, Shelly, it takes me back to that scripture 26:59 where God says, "I am with you always 27:04 even unto the end of the world." 27:06 And that no matter how we feel. 27:11 Well, when we cry, Jesus tastes salt. Amen. 27:16 Tears are our language that God understands. 27:19 Derry, thank you so much for being with us again 27:21 and for sharing from your experiences, 27:24 and I believe that you've brought 27:26 some hope to people today. 27:28 You know, if you are going through grieving, 27:30 I just want to encourage you to call our pastoral department 27:34 if you don't have anyone else to talk to. 27:35 You can call 3ABN's pastoral department, 27:38 speak with one of our prayer partners 27:40 and they'll be happy to pray with you. 27:43 And I do hope that you will look to God. 27:45 He is the lifter of your head. 27:47 May the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, 27:49 the love of the Father and fellowship of the Holy Spirit 27:53 be with you always. |
Revised 2014-12-17