Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jeffery Wilson & Leonard Westphal
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000231
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00:32 Hello I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome again to
00:34 Issues and Answers. 00:35 You know the Bible says, in Deuteronomy 8:18, "you shall 00:40 "earnestly remember the Lord your God for it is He who 00:44 "gives you power to get wealth that He may establish His 00:48 "covenant which He swore to your fathers as it is this 00:52 "day." And today we are going to talk about God giving us 00:56 this wealth and making as a channel of blessing to pass 01:00 this wealth on to help Him establish that covenant. 01:04 I have two very special guests with me today, it is my 01:07 pleasure to introduce you to Jeff Wilson, Jeff you are the 01:11 Director For the Planned Giving and Trust Services of the 01:15 General Conference of Seventh-day Adventist. 01:18 - that's right! - how long? - Uh, since 2000. 01:21 Since 2000, and how have you enjoyed living in 01:24 Silver Springs Maryland? 01:26 Well I am not up there a lot of time, sort of all around 01:28 the world, but we enjoy the East Coast. 01:31 Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, we will hear more about 01:34 your story and then sitting next to you, is our own 01:38 Director for the 3ABN Trust Services, Leonard Westphal. 01:42 Leonard, thank you so much. - glad to see you. 01:44 Well it is always a joy to have you here. - thank you. 01:47 This is going to be, I think, an exciting topic. 01:50 A topic that we really do need to speak about. 01:53 Today we're going to be actually focusing in on some 01:58 things that Ellen White had to say about wills and how 02:01 she handled her own finances, I think you will find this 02:05 very interesting. 02:07 Jeff how did you get involved in this ministry? 02:10 Well it has been a long course, I began as a Pastor in 02:17 the previous century, a long, long time ago. 02:19 I've been a Youth Director, I directed the Youth Department 02:22 right here in Illinois Conference for a number of years 02:26 - praise God! Had a summer camp quite close here down 02:29 in Makanda Illinois at little Grassy Lake. 02:31 Then we have done development work and public-relations 02:35 work in various conferences and various institutions of 02:39 the Church including the Media Center and Andrews University. 02:44 But actually since 1999, I came to the General Conference 02:48 from Andrews University and in the year 2000 I was elected 02:52 as the Director of the Department. 02:54 What we are thrilled to have you here and I know it is 02:57 a great sacrifice of time for you to come here. 02:59 Leonard, how long have you and Jeff known one another? 03:03 Jeff is a dear friend of mine, we are, I think, more than 03:07 brothers and my wife likes him very much. 03:10 In fact she just told me last night that this must be 03:13 a holy man, the sacrifices he made to be here and help us 03:16 in talking about the very subject we are talking about 03:19 today is just immense. 03:20 He left his wife there and he was attending the Annual 03:24 Council of the Seventh-day Adventist church in Washington 03:27 where all the leaders of the world come, and yet Jeff 03:31 took time off to come here. 03:34 So I know him probably 20, 25 years you know. 03:38 I joined this department, I was a Pastor-Evangelist for 03:45 17 years and then I was called into this ministry 28 years 03:50 ago I didn't know I was going to last one year because 03:56 I thought it's not my calling you know. 03:58 Yet the Lord blessed and I have been in it 28 years and am 04:03 enjoying every day because I believe the Lord leads and 04:07 guides us in this work bringing to us the right people 04:11 who want to help the Lord's work. 04:13 So we thank the Lord everyday. 04:15 We are just so thankful at 3ABN, we really appreciate the 04:19 work that you and your lovely wife Rita do. 04:21 I know that you make a lot of personal sacrifices as well. 04:24 By the way I didn't tell you that I have been with 3ABN 04:27 10 solid years. - yes, praise the Lord. 04:30 - 10 solid years, I haven't even seen the time pass. 04:33 Well, when you're having fun time passes quickly. 04:37 Today we are going to be talking about wills. 04:40 You know money is such an important topic, because money 04:44 causes so many problems in the families, it is the number 04:48 one reason people get divorces. 04:50 You can sometimes give your children too much money and 04:54 spoil them, but the Bible says, it is the love of money 04:58 that is the root of all evil. 04:59 There is nothing evil about money, and God often 05:02 blessed, we find in the old and New Testaments God often blessed 05:06 people with wealth just for the express purpose that 05:10 they could help get His work done here on Earth. 05:13 We are going to be talking about the importance of wills. 05:17 I'm surprised personally Jeff, how many people die without 05:21 a will, what did Ellen White have to say about this topic? 05:25 Well Ellen White of course was one of the founders of the 05:29 Seventh-day Adventist church. 05:31 She was born in 1827 and lived until 1915. 05:35 Which was a miracle in itself because as a young girl 05:39 she suffered a serious accident to her face and head, 05:44 and had poor health anyway and was not expected 05:46 to live beyond her childhood. 05:48 But she lived to the ripe old age of 87 and actually 05:52 traveled the world, it was much more difficult to travel 05:56 in her day then in ours. 05:57 Months and months across the ocean, she spent time in 06:01 Europe as a missionary. 06:02 Time in Australia and New Zealand as a missionary. 06:06 Established hospitals and schools and gospel work all 06:10 around the world. 06:11 And one of our challenges in our work that Leonard and 06:16 I and about 325 other people involved in this work in the 06:21 world face, is the fact you mentioned Shelley, the horrible 06:26 low percentage of people who even have the will. 06:29 Some numbers are as low as about one third of the 06:33 people of the general population as a will. 06:35 The highest would be around 50%, so for a number of years 06:39 I've used some statements that Ellen White made about 06:43 the importance of having a will. 06:46 That a person should have a will that withstand the test 06:49 of law and that they should remember of course their 06:52 family, and those dependent upon them, the Bible is clear 06:55 on that 1 Timothy 5. 06:56 But they should also remember God's work and remember that 07:02 God indeed is the one who loaned them everything that 07:05 they have and when we are through with it we should return 07:09 it to its rightful owner which would be the Lord. 07:11 Ah, but only recently did I decide to study what did she 07:17 actually do herself? 07:20 That was a very interesting study to do. 07:23 In the General Conference building in Silver Spring 07:28 Maryland, everyday people come there to do tours like they 07:33 do here at 3ABN. 07:34 Nobody ever asks to come and see my office, but most 07:38 people want to go down into the basement where there is 07:41 no windows, and they go down there to a very intriguing 07:45 place called the Ellen G. White Estates Inc. 07:48 there they can go into a vault and see these original 07:52 documents, they can see the huge Bible that Ellen White 07:56 held aloft for a long period of time. 07:58 Under a glass they can see her will. 08:00 You know I missed her will when it was there, the thing 08:03 that fascinated me the most was her library. 08:06 - yeah. - I wanted to see what types of books. 08:09 I actually got a copy, you know I had them print off 08:14 a copy of the contents of her library. 08:16 It is interesting for a woman who really had to quit school, 08:20 the grade school because of her health. 08:23 I'm sure you will enjoy going to that list of books 08:26 and finding some that will be of real 08:28 spiritual blessing to you. 08:30 But of great interest is that will under glass in which 08:36 you can see what she wrote down, her instructions in 1912, 08:41 that's about 91 years ago, well 91 years since she passed 08:46 away, and her work is going on today in the Ellen G. White 08:52 Estates under the authority of her will. 08:56 There are trustees who, the original ones were named by 08:59 Ellen White, and then in her will she provided that these 09:02 persons could fill in any vacancies that came along. 09:06 So today you have the Ellen G. White Estates trustees who 09:11 go back to that will, and the work they do in translating 09:15 her writings into other languages, producing new 09:19 compilations, protecting her works and spreading the 09:24 gospel around the world is a function of a will that 09:29 she prepared in her later years. 09:31 Now want to get back to how she divided the assets, but 09:33 I would like to bring up this point, because that was her 09:36 third will actually, right? - fourth I think. 09:40 The fourth will, okay. Some people don't understand that 09:44 wills, I can't believe anyone who has children, 09:48 if you don't have a will, please listen to this program. 09:52 Because some people think that wills are only if you amassed 09:56 a lot of assets that you can then say how 10:00 to divide these assets, but as you have just said, 10:03 she has given instruction in how to appoint trustees, 10:07 how they should run this trust that she has, 10:11 her foundation. 10:13 Parents can give instruction as to who they would like 10:16 to rear their children. 10:18 Please, if you will, take a moment and tell us why it is 10:22 so important to have a will. 10:23 Well it is extremely important for anyone of any age, 10:28 that is age of majority 18 years and older. 10:31 There are different major changes in our lives, 10:35 when we get married, when we are out of the nest at home 10:37 first of all out of our parents custody. 10:40 Then we get married, when children come along, a very 10:43 important time that you just mentioned Shelley. 10:46 Then when the children are out of the nest and then when 10:49 we get older and move from place to place, or we lose 10:52 a spouse, or remarriage or whatever. 10:54 But your point of young couples who have small children 10:58 at home often feel we have more debt than we have 11:00 assets so we don't need a will, they are looking 11:03 at only the money issue. 11:05 But a will is the only legal document by which a person 11:11 can name surrogate parents, guardians for minor children. 11:16 If parents, God forbid should lose their lives before 11:21 their children are 18, and they have no will, then the 11:25 probate judge is going to make a determination 11:29 where to place those children. 11:30 He may place them in a Christian home, he might not place 11:35 them in a Christian home. 11:37 One issue is, at least that I have seen in a lot of young 11:40 couples, they may be the only Christians 11:43 in their immediate family. 11:45 They have siblings but they are not in the faith. 11:47 The judge probably would put them with a sibling 11:50 who had the most money, we might place them with a couple 11:56 in the church that has the same values that we have 11:59 and we would know the children would be in Sabbath 12:02 School and church and church school and pathfinders 12:05 and all these kind of things. 12:06 Have the diet that we wanted them to have. 12:08 They would be raised for the kingdom, not just the dollar 12:11 figure, the dollar figure might not be the most important 12:16 for us, so that an extremely important reason for people 12:20 even for people with not many financial assets, but they 12:25 have human assets, their children. 12:27 They have a stewardship responsibility too as well. 12:30 You know I had a will when I was single, and then when 12:34 I got married, within two months after marriage 12:37 we sat down and redid our wills. 12:39 But for example, even in Ellen White's own life, she had her 12:43 will and everything Leonard, she had it all sewn up didn't she? 12:47 But now I understand that James White died without a will. 12:52 When James White died, of course he died prematurely in 12:57 1881, he died without a will. 12:59 So his estate was probated in what we call in Testate. 13:03 Under the laws of the State of Michigan, this is what 13:07 was going to happen. 13:09 Ellen White would get 50%, James Edison, the son would get 13:14 25%, Willie the other son will get 25%. 13:17 Well about all Ellen White at that time was her little Elm 13:22 street house in Battle Creek, so to provide for the probate 13:27 she would have had to sell the house, because she didn't have 13:31 the other 50% to buy the boys out, 13:33 she would have essentially been homeless. 13:36 Well James Edison and Willie said mother we will forgo 13:39 our inheritance, you keep the house. 13:42 That is what I think most people would want, if one or 13:46 the other of us passes away, we want everything to go to 13:49 our surviving spouse and when the surviving spouse passes 13:52 away then we distribute to the children and so forth. 13:55 Because James White didn't have a will, there was a crisis 13:59 there and if the boys said, mother we want our money now 14:03 like the prodigal son did, she could've been living in 14:07 a cardboard box or something like that, 14:09 or a rented apartment somewhere. 14:11 So Ellen White remembered that, and in her later years 14:15 she was generous with her children in other ways, 14:19 remembering they forgone their inheritance back in 1881. 14:23 Of interest that Ellen White did, I think it is an 14:27 encouragement for other people, she didn't wait until 14:31 she died to do all her giving. - Amen! 14:34 She wanted to see the blessing of it now, and so she 14:39 for example, to her two granddaughters when 14:42 they got married, she gave them $700 each. 14:45 Well that would be quite a bit of money today, 14:48 to help them get started out in their new homes. 14:52 Her 16-year-old twin grandsons, when they were 16 years 14:56 old she gave him a plot of land of her property there 15:01 in Elmshaven and they cleared that land and sell it so that 15:06 the money could go to help them with their college education. 15:10 Well I think that was neat, she didn't just give them 15:13 a gift, she gave him a gift that they had to work and 15:16 sweat a little bit and improve the land and even get some 15:19 experience of how to sell real estate and then, 15:22 of course not to spend that frivolously, but to spend 15:25 it on their Christian education. 15:27 So she made a lot of gifts along the way before 15:31 the final gift in her will. 15:33 I received a letter from a man who said, if I can 15:37 remember how to quote this, he said, I'm a given while 15:40 I'm liven so I know-en where it's go-in. 15:42 He said, he wanted his money, his point was he had two 15:47 very spoiled young children and he said, they have been 15:52 spoiled all their life and did not handle money 15:54 in a prudent fashion. 15:56 He was beginning to sell off some assets to make sure 15:59 that it went to the ministries he wanted to support and 16:02 that was supporting God's work. 16:04 I thought that was quite impressive. 16:07 I just wanted to mention that there is a lesson to learn 16:10 from what Ellen G. White did. 16:12 Many people, and we talked a lot of people who says, oh 16:15 I have a will that was done 20 years ago, 30 years ago. 16:19 But things have changed in our lives, we don't know what, 16:22 maybe the spouse died, or his son died, or a daughter. 16:26 Somebody who they are remembering and they are gone. 16:30 So you must and should really, up-date the will which 16:34 is done very simply. 16:35 You can have what is called today a codicil, 16:38 which is merely an amendment to the will. 16:40 Or you can make a new will, it doesn't cost very much, 16:45 normally $75 where we are, sometimes lawyers charge more. 16:50 It all depends what they are talking about as far as 16:53 the estate is concerned. 16:55 But the beauty of what I see here that Ellen G. White 16:58 updated her will, she had four, that is something 17:01 we ought to remember because if you don't the will, will not 17:06 do what we expected to do. That is very important. 17:10 Also I would say that everybody who is 18 or over should 17:15 have a will, the age of maturity here is 18 right? 17:20 Do you think about these kits that you can buy that are 17:23 quite inexpensive and you can just prepare your own will. 17:26 Do you think it is necessary to go to an attorney, 17:28 or will one of these kits work? 17:30 I have a question Jeff, of course you have heard so many, 17:34 many times, but let me say this. 17:36 I think it ought to be done by a professional attorney. 17:39 An attorney, a professional because you may make mistakes 17:43 and then it may not be valid in court you see. 17:45 So I would suggest to spend $50, $75, $125 and have an 17:53 attorney do it and then you are sure. 17:55 But then update it, keep updating it. 17:58 I think it is wise to get professional help. 18:04 It is amazing that people who don't want to spend any 18:08 money to protect everything they have, we drive an 18:12 automobile, but we spend money on insurance to protect the 18:15 automobile and us should we be involved in an accident. 18:19 We have accumulated a certain amount of assets over our 18:22 life time, doesn't it make sense that we should spend 18:24 some money to protect that? 18:27 The good news is, in the church many of our conferences 18:32 and institutions, when the church is being remembered, 18:36 will actually pick up even those drafting charges from the 18:40 attorneys so a person can get an estate plan at no cost. 18:44 But even if one should spend several hundred, sometimes 18:47 with a trust it may be thousands of dollars. 18:50 It is money well spent. 18:51 Now Ellen White in 1912 she engaged the services of an 18:57 attorney down in San Francisco and his name was 18:59 Theodore A. Bell, and she paid $25.85. 19:03 I try to calculate that out and it would be equivalent to 19:07 around $550 today, so she spent a lot of money. 19:11 Remember that hers was a simple will, it not only passed 19:15 assets to children and other family members, but it 19:19 established a corporation, it established trustees and an 19:24 ongoing trust that would protect her literary properties and 19:29 see them be printed, spread and all that so it was 19:34 a complicated document. 19:36 What Ellen White did was, she sought counsel from the 19:40 Lord, she prayed about it a lot, she sought counsel from her 19:43 family, and from the church leaders, and then she engaged 19:47 the services of a professional attorney in San Francisco. 19:51 She probably could have found one closer to home for 19:54 a little less money, but she wanted an experienced 19:56 professional who could do a good job, and he did a good 19:59 job because it has lasted now for well over a 100 years. 20:02 There's two questions I want to ask you because it occurs 20:05 to me that some of our viewers may not know who Ellen 20:08 White is other than you had established that she was 20:12 one of the founders of this church, but also she was the 20:17 most published woman in the world and how many literary 20:21 works did she do? And how did she divide her assets? 20:25 Because the income from these literary works, 20:28 What did she do with them? 20:29 Well I'm not sure how many books she wrote, because 20:32 there are always new compilations that are coming out 20:35 I know there are tens of thousands of manuscripts that 20:39 she wrote, and I have a picture of her grandson, 20:42 Arthur White, standing beside a stack of her books that 20:46 is taller than he is, he wasn't a tall man but still 20:49 they were taller than he is. 20:50 What Ellen White ended up doing was dividing her estate 20:56 like this, 25% to family, 75% to God's work. 21:02 Now I hasten to say that is not inspired, that is not 21:07 what an example that everyone should do. 21:10 Often people ask Leonard and I, well how much do we leave 21:14 for God's work? And we say, we can't tell you that. 21:17 Well what do other people do? We can say we have seen 21:20 people leave nothing to God's work, that makes us very 21:23 nervous. We've seen people leave everything to God's work 21:26 and when there is family around that makes us rather 21:28 nervous. And we seen everything in between. 21:31 We've seen people who lets say had three children, 21:34 so they left so they make God's work a child and gave 21:37 25% to God's work and 25% for each three children. 21:41 That is a decision that people need to make overtime and 21:44 with much prayer. - Amen! - because for some children 21:48 to leave them resources they are dependent on that, 21:52 they need that, others it would be perhaps wasted, 21:56 and it's that good use of stewardship? 21:58 That is the question we need to ask. 22:00 For Ellen White, she made a decision of 25% and 75%. 22:05 The 25%, she had two sons, James Edison, and Willie. 22:10 She had people living in her home who were her assistants, 22:14 who were family, they weren't blood relatives but they 22:17 were family, they had worked for a small stipend. 22:22 They lived in her home, so she remembered them in specific 22:26 ways because she wanted to help them along life's way. 22:30 They were indeed sort of dependent upon her. 22:32 So in that 25% were her sons plus these other individuals 22:37 that were, and this is another point. 22:39 If a person dies without a will, the judge will 22:43 distribute the property to blood relatives. 22:47 If there are none it would probably go to the state. 22:50 But you and I might have someone that is not a blood 22:53 relative, but they are a loved one, or a close friend, there 22:56 someone is dependent upon us, or someone we want to leave 22:59 something to, without a will it will not go to that friend 23:03 or loved one that is not a direct family member. 23:06 Without a will there is a hefty chunk that the state 23:10 actually takes out up front as well, is that not true? 23:15 Well there would be probate costs, and without a will 23:19 it is going to be more expense, yes. 23:24 Let me hasten to add too, some people, as Jeff was saying, 23:29 don't want to leave anything to the children. 23:31 Nothing to the Lord's work, but when they asked us for advice 23:37 what shall we do with our estate? We do not give them 23:40 advice, we tell them that it's between you and your spouse 23:44 and the Lord, you pray about it, then have the Lord inspire 23:47 you about what to do. That is what we tell everybody. 23:50 I just had a case of a man, a wealthy man, 23:54 he's a millionaire and he had two children and he wanted 24:03 to leave part of the estate to the children. 24:06 But it was interesting that the wife opposed and said no 24:10 I don't want to leave anything to our children. 24:12 Anything to our children. 24:14 And that puts us in a very bad situation because you see 24:18 when the parents are gone, the children may say listen 24:23 the church or the Ministry took our estate and 24:27 they become angry at the parents and at the Ministry. 24:31 So I was able, with the Lord's help, to convince them 24:33 they ought to remember their children, and they did. 24:37 I am happy for that, but that is how people are. 24:40 We are all different you know, but it is very vital to 24:44 remember of course our loved ones because I have seen 24:48 very sad cases throughout my experience and the people 24:52 become so upset with the mom and daddy and eventually 24:56 the church and the organization. 24:58 You have been through those experiences Jeff too. 25:00 Well I do know that, in planning your will and estate, 25:05 there are so many people that are wealthy and they know 25:09 what their state taxes are about to run, they can even get 25:13 life insurance that will cover the cost of those estate 25:16 taxes there are many benefits, but if you have nothing, 25:19 we all have treasured possessions and we know somebody 25:23 that would like to have them. 25:25 Yes I think even people with modest means know where they 25:30 would like their things to go. - sure. 25:32 The other point is, we do not know what our final estate 25:35 will be, we might be out here on the highway and be run 25:38 over, and for younger people the most common, would be an 25:42 accident in which there might be wrongful death 25:44 settlements and the estate could be much larger than they 25:46 had thought, and of course if they have life insurance 25:49 that would be there too. 25:51 So for all those reasons, we feel that even if a person 25:55 has a modest estate, they need a will, even if they have 25:58 got a lot they need a will. All those in between. 26:01 It's a part of our stewardship. 26:03 If I've borrow a tool from you I have a responsibility to 26:08 return it when I am through using it. 26:10 If I kept it for myself, that would be stealing even 26:12 though I borrowed it from you. 26:14 Well everything we have is loaned from the Lord and 26:18 we have ultimately a chance to return it to the Lord. 26:20 That is so true. Now we only have about a minute left 26:23 and there is two things I want to ask you. 26:24 Number one, I understand that none of her royalties go to 26:27 family members, that is all going back into the work of 26:30 the Lord, is that correct for the Ellen White? 26:32 - that's true. What principles did she best exhibit, 26:37 or manifest in the way she handled her estate? 26:41 She took time to work out these details. 26:44 She sought professional and family advice, 26:47 which was very important. 26:48 She remembered her loved ones generously and she as 26:53 well remembered God's work generously. 26:57 She remembered the broad aspects of God's work, the 27:02 training of ministers and teachers, our mission program, 27:05 our medical work, all those areas. 27:10 The publishing work were remembered in her will, 27:13 so she was broad in her giving during her life time and 27:17 she was brought in her giving after death. 27:19 And she did most of her giving before she passed away. 27:24 And that follows right along with 1 Timothy 5:8 too. 27:27 Take care of your family while they are in need. 27:31 Well I hope you have been blessed by this program. 27:34 I just want to thank you Jeff, and thank you Leonard 27:37 for joining us today. 27:39 And for those of you at home, please take this advice, 27:43 get a will, make a will and now we just want to say we 27:47 hope that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of 27:50 the Father, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit will be 27:54 with you today and every day throughout the rest 27:57 of your life. Thank you for joining us, bye! |
Revised 2014-12-17