Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Richard D'Avanzo
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000223
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00:29 Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn,
00:30 and welcome again to Issues and Answers. 00:32 You know, the Bible says in Proverbs 3:5-6: 00:36 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, 00:38 and lean not on your own understanding. 00:40 In all your ways acknowledge him, 00:43 and he will direct your paths. 00:45 Well, today we're going to see how we can take that advice 00:49 and actually apply it to very, very difficult situation. 00:54 And that is for any parent who is going through a divorce 00:58 and they have children who are suffering the consequences. 01:02 We have back with us again, a returned guest. 01:05 And that's Dr. Richard D'Avanzo. 01:07 Well, thank you. Dr. Richard, 01:09 so glad you're back here. Thank you. 01:10 Now, you are a Christian psychologist. 01:13 And councilor, you're a professor 01:16 at the Florida Christian University. 01:19 Right. In.. Florida, in where? Orlando. 01:22 Orlando, Florida and you've written a book 01:25 by the title of "When the Vow Breaks." 01:28 And finding hope, healing 01:30 and forgiveness, when the marriage ends. 01:32 We're gonna be talking about something that 01:35 you've gone through personally. Yeah. 01:37 You were 61 yrs old, when your wife of 35 years 01:41 came to you and said what? It's all over. 01:44 It's all over? Yeah. 01:46 And your children were grown at that time. 01:48 Yes, they were 18 and then the rest of them, 01:52 three of them were in their 20's and one was 18. 01:55 Now, for those who haven't heard you before, 01:58 you have a biological son 02:00 and three adopted children. Correct. 02:03 Even though they were grown, how did this affect them? 02:07 Well, they were refugee children, 02:09 one from Vietnam and two from Cambodia. 02:12 And you know, they had lost their parents 02:15 and now that the grief was 02:17 that they were losing a second time. 02:20 They were losing the family unit, 02:21 but you don't have to be a refugee child, do you? 02:24 No, no, no, any child is going to really feel the pain in that. 02:30 And different children express it different ways, 02:34 sometimes you never know until many years later. 02:38 So, today I'm happy we're gonna be talking about 02:41 some of those things that can reduce the effects of divorce. 02:44 Amen, amen. Now, when a child, 02:50 particularly in the younger years it seems, 02:52 how does this affect a child, when they go through a divorce. 02:55 What are some of the negative effects 02:57 that children can have from the divorce procedure? 03:00 Well, you know when they're very young, 03:03 you know perhaps younger than before their teens. 03:07 They probably will think that they caused the divorce. 03:11 You know, it's very frequent 03:13 that they will think that they did something 03:15 that caused mommy and daddy to separate. 03:19 And that guilt is, it just weighs heavily upon them. 03:23 And when they get into their teens and beyond, 03:26 they sort of, well they know 03:29 what parent had the bigger part to play in that. 03:34 And they sometimes suffer from that 03:41 in different ways and some go and into 03:45 early drinking and drugs and sex 03:53 and negative life behaviors to bury the pain. 03:59 Children who are going through a divorce, 04:01 no matter what their age, 04:02 they are at risk for emotional problems, behavioral problems. 04:06 And what we're going to be focusing on today 04:08 is how to decrease the risk for children who are going 04:13 through a divorce and immediately afterward. 04:16 Now, in your book, I've got some points written out 04:18 that I thought we just, I'll just talk about 04:21 what you said let you expand on it. Okay. 04:23 In the book you said that it's critically important 04:26 to set aside time each day for God, why? 04:32 Well, you know, a parent going through 04:35 this kind of situation is awesome, 04:39 it's painful and they're so wrapped up in their own emotion, 04:43 in their trauma of the divorce 04:45 that sometimes they can't even think straight. 04:49 And they sometimes even forget 04:51 that the children are going through a lot. 04:54 And so we need an abundant 04:56 amount of strength beyond ourselves 04:59 and so by focusing upon our relationship with God, 05:03 seeking God to carry me through this divorce 05:07 and my children is going to be very vital. 05:11 And that means, I've got to spend time 05:12 on my knees before God, more than once every day. 05:18 Because I've to ask and know that God's 05:21 gonna give me that kind of strength and wisdom. 05:24 And the guidance. Yes. 05:26 Leading you, that's good. He will guide, He will council. 05:29 That's good. He's a wonderful councilor. 05:30 Yes, He is. 05:32 Okay, the second point you made was spend time in intimate 05:37 bonding with your children day, daily. 05:39 Yes. Excuse me. 05:41 You know that's so important 05:43 and that's spending time, quality time. 05:46 You know, you want to take some time out. 05:48 I just say, you had three children, 05:51 you know it's good to spend time as a family, 05:53 all three children, but it's very important 05:55 as frequent as possible, to take one child and say 06:00 come on Johnny, let's you and I go out and get an ice-cream. 06:04 And you bond together with him 06:06 or another child likes the bike ride, let's go out biking. 06:10 You know, you got to spend intimate one on one, 06:13 eyeball to eyeball time with that child. 06:15 Because that child needs to feel that security, 06:19 that well my other parent left and are you gonna leave? 06:23 Right. And you said no, 06:25 I'm here, I'll never forsake you. 06:28 Because that's what you're hearing from the Lord, 06:30 because you're bonding with the Lord. 06:32 And you're hearing the Lord say I'll never forsake you, 06:35 and you can pass it on. Amen. 06:36 Because we're gonna be carried through this. 06:39 Now, you know it seems to me the parent 06:41 who has custody this would be easy but how does, 06:44 what does the parent who does not have custody 06:47 how do you maintain that daily contact? 06:50 Well, it can't be daily other than maybe by phone, right. 06:54 And we're gonna discuss some of those points. 06:56 Oh, good. Little later. Okay. 06:57 Because that is the vital. All right. 06:59 Now, your third point, learn to enjoy your children 07:03 give them a lots of attention, affirmation 07:06 and physical reassurance and hugs. 07:08 Yeah, you know some children 07:10 need more than others, but all children need it. 07:14 And that needs physical touch, hugs, affirmation, I love you. 07:19 You know, sometimes we're so rot with so many emotional pains 07:24 that we only can see everything through negative glasses. 07:27 And so we see what they're doing wrong 07:29 or they're not doing right. 07:30 No, that's why we need the strength of the Lord. 07:33 Amen. Lord you come in me with your love 07:37 and let me flow to my children and enjoy my children. 07:42 In other words do things laugh together, have fun together. 07:48 Okay, good doctor I don't want to throw you furlough, 07:50 but let me ask you this question. 07:52 What about those children who are resentful 07:55 because of the divorce and they're mad 07:57 and they're angry at the, say the mother has the custody 08:00 and they're angry, they're blaming her? 08:03 How does a mother reach out to that child to embrace them, 08:07 if they don't want that physical contact, what would you do then? 08:10 Well, you know you have to realize 08:11 that the child is probably striking out at the 08:15 custodial parent because they're more convenient to do it. 08:18 But and then hard parts he doesn't really 08:21 or she doesn't really mean that. 08:23 You know, at the whole issue of separation, 08:28 the unity of the family, every child wants that unity. 08:33 And some let make a known more than others 08:35 and some acting bad behavior, or some acting bad behaviors, 08:38 some acting and you know, he's older, 08:41 very quiet about it, you don't hear a thing. 08:44 But all of them are affected and so only by love, 08:48 the love that God gives to us, can we penetrate through that. 08:53 We have to learn, I'll mention it again later 08:55 because it's so important. 08:56 Don't major in the minors, okay. 09:01 In other words, major in the majors the real big things, 09:04 the important things, just because 09:06 or maybe he didn't do this little thing. 09:09 Don't worry about it; don't make a big thing out of it. 09:12 Because everything become like, and minors could become majors. 09:15 Would it be wise council if a parent is experiencing 09:20 that rejection from their children, 09:22 the custodial parent is experiencing that rejection. 09:26 Would it be wise council to say 09:27 don't take their acting out personally? 09:30 Yes, don't take it seriously, 09:33 just don't major in it, let's put it that way. 09:35 Okay. You know, 09:36 go on and try to find alternative things of, 09:39 what they like to do, come on, the child likes to go hiking. 09:44 Come on you and I are going, oh! I don't want to go hiking, 09:46 oh! I don't want. Well, we're gonna go hiking, 09:49 once they get out there, they're gonna enjoy it. 09:52 And you keep doing, you may have to work at it. 09:53 The child has been wounded very badly and he has not... 09:58 or she has nothing to do with that 10:00 didn't cause it or anything. 10:02 Now, if they're young, they sometimes think they did, 10:04 so you have to reassure them. When, the time is appropriate. 10:09 Boy, no wonder a parent needs to spend so much time 10:11 on their knees before the Lord. Yes, yes. 10:13 Okay, you make another point. 10:15 Set reasonable limits and boundaries, 10:18 because it helps your children feel secure. 10:20 Yes, yes. You know sometimes 10:22 we feel so guilty because you know we've, 10:24 the families all their and we let them do everything or if 10:28 and you're non custodian, you're bringing 10:29 all kinds of gifts and promises or we're gonna go to Disney 10:33 and we're gonna do this and we're gonna. 10:35 You can't keep half of those promises, not good. 10:40 So, you got to be bonding to those kids 10:43 in positive ways and fulfill your word. 10:47 And when you say set reasonable limits and boundaries, 10:50 how about on their acting out, how much of that do you accept? 10:53 You have to set a limit, okay I mention you, 10:57 and you don't have the minors okay. 10:59 But they are certain limits; 11:00 children will test those limits more than ever. 11:03 Every child does, but more than ever, 11:05 because he wants to know or she wants to know. 11:08 You know, is mom still in control here. 11:12 Because as nothing worse than the child being control. 11:14 Amen. See and soon or later 11:17 as we talk about later and as we've talked about 11:19 the point number one is that mom is 11:22 letting that child knows that God is in control. 11:25 Because God is love and I'm gonna love you. 11:28 Amen. Well, regardless of how you act. 11:31 I see, you know I don't, I don't. 11:36 You did something wrong here, this is not right 11:38 but I still love you. Amen. 11:39 And I have start to reprimand you and give you a hug. 11:43 Now, you got to have the grace of God behind you, 11:45 because you're all depleted, 11:46 you're emotional, you drained yourself. 11:49 You need the strength of God, but God will give it to you. 11:53 He promises, yes. That is Corinthians 12:9: 11:56 "That His grace is sufficient, that His 11:58 power is made perfect in your weakness." 12:00 Okay, a fifth point is to offer brief prayers at meal times 12:05 and bed time allowing God to be a constant 12:08 gentle reassuring presence in their lives. 12:10 Yes, yes. It's very important 12:12 but don't make these long winded prayers and everything, 12:16 make it short and make it sweet, make it simple. 12:19 But make sure that you know 12:23 depending upon the age of the child; 12:25 you want to be sure of that you somehow 12:28 begin to foster the idea that maybe they might pray too. 12:32 See and so, you make it so sweet and short that, 12:38 oh! Johnny you could do that now you know, 12:40 wouldn't that be wonderful God, God will be so pleased 12:43 and I think you like that. 12:46 So, you look for the right timing 12:48 and in the beginning it may not be that way, 12:50 but at least the child knows that you're connected to God 12:54 and God is security. 12:57 And you gain security, 12:58 so if mom is gaining security from God, maybe I can too. 13:04 Okay, you say to pray for the other parent too, 13:07 it is vital for your children's healing 13:10 that your children know especially by example 13:12 how important God is to you? 13:14 They need to witness you trust in God to carry you on 13:17 and then through this different, difficult time. 13:19 Yes, yes, especially the parent, that's the non custodial parent. 13:24 You know, that parent will always be that child's parent, 13:28 he can never divorce that parent. 13:31 And so, that child has a bond to that other person 13:36 and so they're just hurt terribly 13:39 when if the mom is the custodial, 13:42 she has bitterness and she says bad things 13:46 you know criticizes and so forth. 13:48 But if she prays you know, help dad to find that job 13:55 or to overcome this problem of addiction or whatever, 14:00 because God loves him and we love him. 14:05 That sounds good.... Boy, I tell you that heal 14:06 a child and that child loves to hear that 14:09 and maybe shock to hear in the beginning. 14:11 Because in the very beginning, you may not have done that. 14:13 You know, but you can start anytime. 14:16 What a witness to your children? The sooner the better. 14:18 Yes. You say show your children 14:21 by example that we need to treat everyone lovingly 14:24 and kindly no matter how they treat us in return. 14:28 Yes and of course starting with parent 14:31 that's left is a fantastic way to start, because you start. 14:37 See the children, you can preach them, 14:38 will you got to nice to everyone, 14:40 people won't hurt you and all of that. 14:41 But I want to see it in you, mom. 14:43 Right. I want to see in you, dad. 14:46 And so the custodial father or mother 14:49 regardless of which one is which, 14:50 non custodial or custodial, this goes for both. Amen. 14:57 Another point you made is resolve your hostilities 15:00 and resentments toward your former spouse. 15:03 You know, if you miss last program 15:04 we talked about forgiveness and what it is and what it isn't. 15:09 The bottom-line is it's a choice; 15:10 it's not negotiable for Christians. 15:12 Yes. We've got to forgive, 15:14 but this is so critical, this resolution of your hostilities 15:19 and forgiveness is a step really that you must go through 15:24 to be able to do anything that we're talking about today. 15:27 Yes. That has to be there and just to reiterate 15:30 what we said last time you won't feel like forgiving. 15:32 Right. Okay, so this is something 15:35 that you're gonna do, because God wants me to do it, 15:37 because God loves me with an everlasting love 15:40 and He wants the best for us. Right. 15:43 See and that's what opens the flood gates for God 15:46 to pour his goodness and the strength because you know, 15:48 my weakness is strength comes in. 15:53 And you know, it occurs to me as we're talking 15:56 that if a parent is say let she is the mother in this example. 16:01 If the mother is the custodial parent 16:03 and she is able to forgive the father, 16:06 then she is going to help facilitate 16:09 forgiveness for her children for their father. 16:11 And then you know, we discussed last time 16:14 that when we have bitterness or unforgiveness in our heart 16:18 that it will get into a route of bitterness and resentment 16:22 and that just blocks off the flow of God's life in us. 16:26 So, by the parent making this step to forgive, 16:30 then really you're opening the way for 16:33 the flood gate of God's love to just bathe your child as well. 16:37 Right and this is a process, it doesn't happen in one time, 16:40 it's a process you keep on working 16:42 toward it and you will get better. 16:44 Enjoy your children; love your children, 16:47 no matter what they do, what they don't do. 16:49 I'm gonna standby, I never will leave you. 16:52 Amen, amen. Okay, maintain as much 16:56 of the pre-divorce family routine as you can. 16:59 Yes, you know I mean if you're having dinner at a certain time. 17:02 If you're doing a certain chores at a certain time, 17:05 you're doing certain activities, 17:07 try to keep that as normal especially in the beginning. 17:10 Because there's enough disruption 17:12 without the other parent there 17:14 and so you just keep some of the same thing, 17:17 it keeps the family a little stable 17:19 or more stable, much more stable. 17:21 So, that's important keep this, try to keep the same routines, 17:26 and also by the same time, you want to begin to 17:28 develop some new traditions. And that's good. 17:32 Yeah, see some new things, so that the family continues 17:36 to grow and God will bless you and help you. 17:40 That's good; if possible continue the primary residence 17:45 for at least the short term like the reminder of the school year. 17:48 Yes, yes. You know, lots of times you're 17:50 so emotionally rot, what he did was just 17:55 female and she, what he did, we're up and out of here, 17:58 we're getting out of here, we're not staying around. 18:01 You know, you know you may feel 18:03 that emotion and that's understandable, 18:06 but don't go with it. 18:08 Because that hurts the child, he's got enough, 18:11 she's got enough disruption already, 18:14 that mommy or daddy isn't around anymore. 18:19 Stay there let him finish the school year; 18:21 try to keep everything as stable as possible. 18:24 Okay, now what if the child is, say in college, 18:28 what if the child is married already themselves, 18:31 how does that affect them? 18:33 Well, it's not as important obviously, 18:35 you know I'm thinking more of the younger child 18:38 who is in school up to 12th grade or living at home. 18:41 Okay. Try to maintain 18:44 the extras of life such as sports and music lessons. 18:48 Yeah, that goes along with this, 18:50 what we just said keep the same routine, 18:55 keep as little disruption as possible in the family. 18:59 And you know, sometimes it's hard, 19:01 I mean you know funds aren't there 19:04 and so we maybe can't do music lessons 19:06 and maybe the child is very talented. 19:09 You maybe able to work something out with 19:12 a music teacher and say look you know, 19:15 I'll take care of your kids in exchange for you 19:18 giving Mary some music lessons. 19:22 You know there are ways that you can barter those things, 19:24 but try to keep them going. And if you happen to be the 19:27 non-custodial parent, who's supplying the funds, 19:30 dig into your pocket a little deeper, 19:33 those kids deserves it. That's good. 19:36 Okay, you also mentioned in your book 19:39 and we're speaking about the book 19:40 "When the Vow Breaks" visitations to the 19:44 non-custodial parent are important. 19:46 The more the contact the child has with both parents, 19:49 the lower the negative risks of divorce upon the child. 19:52 Yes, that is very vital, you see many times 19:56 you know mom is sitting there and she said, 20:00 he'll never see you again, you know, 20:02 I mean that's the way she feels, you know. 20:05 You know... but you don't hurt him, you hurt that child. 20:11 That child needs more contact, and the more contact 20:15 that child has with the other non-custodial parent. 20:19 The less likely they're going to have in getting into early sex, 20:23 early drugs, early alcohol and addictions of various kinds. 20:28 Poor academic success, 20:32 all the things that couple in there. 20:34 So, by you doing these things, you lower that risk. 20:38 I see, and of course if that child 20:41 or if that parent was abusive in any way, 20:44 and they were... Well, that's a different story, 20:46 yes, if they're harm; 20:48 your first obligation is to protect that child. 20:51 I mean there' no question about that 20:53 but in most situations it's more emotional trauma 20:58 that you're dealing with and bitterness and so forth 21:01 and that's why forgiveness is so important. 21:03 Amen. Right, you also point out, 21:05 if you're the one making child support payments, 21:08 make them willingly and on time, 21:10 failure to do so communicates to your child you don't care. 21:14 That child knows, you know, that child knows 21:17 that if you're not making those payments on time. 21:21 And you know, and I would say this to mom, 21:23 you know, in this type of scenario. 21:25 Well, don't go out and say, well, you know 21:28 when you go see dad make sure that he, 21:30 tell him that we haven't had our payment 21:31 and we need it to pay our rent and we need this. 21:33 Don't involve the child; keep the child out of it. 21:38 That's why you need this, some bit of reconciliation, 21:42 a peaceful working relationship, 21:43 and this must be worked on as soon as possible. 21:46 So, that you can talk back and forth 21:47 for the benefit of your children. 21:50 And it takes to, so this is what we've got to do. 21:55 It's not advisable you say to date during the first two years 21:59 following the divorce, it's too threatening, 22:01 the children have already lost one parent, 22:03 now will they lose you? Yeah, yeah this is it, 22:06 you know the child is there, and he sees 22:10 this new person coming into the way, to the scene. 22:14 And now you're getting very infatuated and interested in. 22:17 I'm losing contact with mom now, 22:20 am I going to lose her, what's gonna happen to me? 22:23 See and you're also gonna be very careful. 22:25 Moms, I'm telling you this, now, when that guy comes in 22:30 and then he starts wanting to date you, 22:32 he's gonna date your children. 22:34 Okay, he's gonna smooch them, and he's gonna be nice them, 22:38 bring little gifts and everything. 22:39 Because he knows that's the way he's gonna get to you. 22:42 And that's true, so you have to be very careful. 22:46 Look, it's gonna take a couple of a years 22:49 to nurture the bonding that's necessary 22:54 to help your kids heal. And help you heal. 22:56 Yes, but you have to heal, 22:58 and then he'll help them heal, you see. 23:02 So, that's very important for those kids. Amen. 23:05 And they have to know that... that mom is there. 23:09 Now, when you start dating, don't bring that person home. 23:14 You know, don't bring him home, 23:15 you know, and don't let them be known to those children 23:18 unless you have come enough contact with that person 23:21 that you feel that this person maybe next, your next husband. 23:27 That's the time to bring him home, 23:29 because if you bring him home too early and it falls apart, 23:31 then they all... and they bond to that that particular fellow. 23:34 Then they lost another person and it's not good, 23:37 it's not good and very careful. 23:39 Look at moms, let me tell you moms, 23:43 your first priority are your children. 23:45 Number one, let God fills the loneliness, 23:49 that God fill the emptiness, your needs. 23:52 But your first requirement is your children. 23:55 You can speak right to our audience. 23:57 Yes, I tell you that, I really mean it, 23:59 you have to focus your mind on your children, 24:06 because who else is going to? 24:09 The T.V., the peer groups. 24:12 No, no, you have to do it and it's with love, 24:17 by the love God in you to pass it on to your children. 24:21 Bond come together, enjoy them 24:24 and have fun, do things together. 24:26 Find ways to do things, if money is short, find ways to do it. 24:30 And...and you're going to the park, 24:32 you're going swimming, going whatever. 24:35 You know, it occurs to me, Richard, 24:38 the one thing that I teach, I always tell people 24:40 the most important decision that you'll ever make in your life, 24:43 is to accept Christ as your Savior 24:45 but the second most important decision 24:47 you'll ever make in your life is who you marry. 24:49 Yes. And I can see, you know, 24:52 I praise the Lord, I'd never been through, yeah, a divorce. 24:58 I can see that there's so much 25:00 that people who've not been through, 25:02 particularly someone with the child, 25:04 if you've not been through this, you have no idea 25:08 the pain and the trauma, yes, 25:09 and that great reliance you must have up on the Lord. 25:13 But you've written this book, When the Vow Breaks, 25:15 by Richard D'Avanzo available at the ABC book store, 25:19 released by Pacific Press. 25:22 And I know that all of that of what you've learned, 25:25 or what you're teaching here, you learn through experience. 25:28 Yes, yes, and then through counseling 25:30 and giving divorce care seminars, 25:32 I've come into hundreds of people. 25:35 And one thing I'd like to pass on for those people 25:37 out there who are not divorced yet, with children especially. 25:43 Let me tell you, the research is showing 25:47 that your children would better off in a dysfunctional family, 25:52 than in a divorced family. 25:55 So, the old story of staying together for the kid sake 25:59 is really better. The research would begin 26:01 to substantially that, but you know, 26:03 twenty years ago, and fifteen years ago, 26:05 and ten years ago and they weren't saying that. 26:07 But now this research is showing that it's better off. 26:10 And not only that for the children but for yourself. 26:14 Because they say, if you can stick it out, 26:16 they took surveys those people who were having 26:20 dysfunctional or breaking up marriages 26:23 and those five years later. 26:26 Those people who stuck it out during those five years. 26:31 I think this statistics were 80 percent of them 26:33 said that their marriages were better than they were ever. 26:38 Look, reach for the Lord, have help Him to have you hold on, 26:43 and if at all possible do everything to avoid the divorce. 26:48 Do everything you can, separation for awhile, 26:53 anything you can to try to be patient, 26:56 wait upon the Lord, let Him come in. 27:00 You know the waiting time can be the most valuable time. 27:03 A time for connecting with God. 27:05 Amen, well Richard, I'm really glad that 27:08 you connected with God in a deeper way 27:10 through your divorce and that. 27:11 Now, you are sharing your experiences in your book 27:15 and the wisdom that God has given you through, 27:17 just being on your knees and connecting with Him. 27:20 And now through counseling, 27:22 and you're sharing that with others. 27:23 And I just want to thank you so much 27:25 for being with us again. Yeah, my pleasure. 27:27 It's been a delight to having you here. 27:28 Thank you. For those of you at home, 27:30 I hope that you've enjoyed today's program. 27:33 It will be re-run sometime in the near future, 27:35 so you might tell someone that you know 27:37 who needs to hear this message to tune in. 27:40 And I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, 27:44 the love of the Father and the fellowship 27:46 of the Holy Spirit will be with you always. 27:49 May God continue to bless you. Thank you for joining us. |
Revised 2014-12-17