Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Richard D'Avanzo
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000221
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00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn, and welcome again
00:31 to Issues and Answers. This is a program where we 00:34 discuss current issues and the Bible answers. 00:37 What God can do for us to make these issues 00:41 better in our life. I want to start off 00:44 today's program with one of my favorite scriptures 00:47 and it comes from Hebrews 13 and verse 20. 00:49 And Paul is starting a prayer in verse 20 talking 00:54 about the God of peace, but let me read to you 00:57 what he is saying in verse 21. He is saying now 00:59 may the God of peace strengthen, complete 01:03 and perfect you and make you what you ought to be 01:07 and equip you with everything good that you may 01:11 carry out His will, while He Himself works in you 01:15 and accomplishes that which is pleasing in His sight, 01:19 through Jesus Christ our Lord. You know when he think of this, 01:24 isn't it a wonderful promise and a wonderful truth 01:27 to understand, that the God of peace is the one 01:31 who is quipping us, working out his Will in us. 01:35 And he wants us to totally depend on what he is going 01:39 to do in us. And our guest today is not 01:43 only a doctor, he is a doctor of PhD, 01:48 I should say, in Christian psychology 01:51 he teaches at the Florida Christian University. 01:54 He is also the author of wonderful book called 01:58 When the Vow Breaks, and this is the book 02:01 about divorce, it's a book about the pain 02:05 and the healing that God brought to him through 02:07 his own personal experience. Please welcome with me, 02:11 Dr. Richard D'Avanzo. Thank you. Richard, 02:15 it is so good now, I feel like we are 02:17 already old friends, because I had the opportunity 02:20 to interview you on a 3ABN Today Program. 02:24 And I was very impressed with your work. 02:27 Thank you very much, I praise God for that. 02:29 Amen, now for those of our audience 02:32 who did not get to see the previous program 02:34 Tell me just a little bit about how this book came into being. 02:40 What happened in your life that caused you 02:42 to write a book about divorce and finding hope, 02:46 healing and forgiveness when a marriage ends. 02:49 Well, I suppose a lot of pain, loneliness, depression 02:53 those kind of things that most people go through, 02:56 in fact I don't know any that don't go through that, 02:59 when they go through a divorce. And it was during those times 03:03 that I began to just make little notes and put them down, 03:08 because I didn't believe what was happening to me, 03:10 after 30, 35 years of marriage it was a shock. 03:14 I absolutely did not expect it. And so, when I got out 03:19 and came to Florida after the divorce, 03:22 I decided that I would want to do what God wanted me to do. 03:27 And of course sometimes he wants us to do things that 03:30 we don't think about. And that was to go back 03:33 to school. And so I went back and started 03:36 working on a Masters in Christian Counseling 03:39 and then went on to a doctrate. In particular though 03:43 it was placed in my heart that I ought to review 03:48 some of those notes, because I was giving divorce, 03:50 recovery, seminars. And there is nothing better 03:54 then to talk to people after you've gonna through 03:56 the same thing, right. So, I began collecting those 04:01 notes and I listed them down and somebody said, 04:05 you want to make a book out of that. 04:06 And I am not author and I have no intention using 04:09 those notes for that reason. But I felt that the Lord 04:12 wanted it too, so I can reach more people 04:14 then just a seminar of 10 or 20 people, yes, 04:17 but I can reach the people out there. 04:20 Now, in your book you talk about your own pain 04:24 and the experience of this deep sense of worthlessness 04:29 and loneliness and lack of purpose. 04:31 How did God get you through this? 04:34 because there are so many people who are experiencing 04:37 the same thing. Yeah, it, sometimes when we get 04:41 so much pain and we get so lonely and depressed, 04:45 we feel so helpless and worthless. 04:48 The arrogance of self-centeredness is diminished 04:53 to the point what we are saying, 04:55 I need something more than myself, I need God. 05:00 And then we submit ourselves to God and the best way 05:04 to submit to God is to read his word, Amen. 05:08 Listen to what he has to say and one of the verses 05:11 the Psalm 23 verses 1 through 4, but in particular 05:16 verse 4 was really pivotal for me. 05:20 And it opened the gate. Why don't you go review 05:22 those verses for us? Okay, let me just 05:25 read them to you. "The Lord is my shepherd, 05:29 I shall not want. He makes me lie down 05:33 in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters. 05:39 He restores my soul; He guides me in the paths 05:44 of righteousness for his name's sake. 05:47 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow 05:50 of death, I shall fear no evil, for He is with me; 05:56 his rod and his staff, they comfort me." 06:02 You know when I read through this verses 06:06 I look at God as my shepherd, and I needed a shepherd badly, 06:10 Amen. So badly, because I had lost everything, 06:14 a dream of a marriage for life. And effect of my children 06:20 and so I said, oh wow! I need this, 06:23 this is my shepherd. And then he makes me 06:26 lie down in green pastures, and these are places that 06:29 he is gonna bring me to that are much better 06:32 then that I have now. And he leads me besides 06:35 quiet waters. In other words, my life was 06:37 in turmoil and just was so upheaval, such an upheaval. 06:42 And so he restores my soul, he brings me back into 06:46 his blessings of peace. He guides me in the paths of 06:50 righteousness for His name' sake. 06:52 Now here's where the pivotal thing for me was, 06:55 he walks me through the valley of the shadow of death. 06:59 In other words, he walks me through, 07:00 he doesn't park me in that valley, Amen. 07:03 As long as I hold on to Him I can walk through, 07:07 but if I let go of him and I become 07:11 self-centered and I want to do it my way. 07:13 And I don't trust him and have faith that 07:15 he is going to bring me through. 07:17 Know if answer but, He will carry me through, Amen. 07:22 He will carry me through and then he says, 07:24 I will walk you through the valley, 07:26 but I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. 07:29 And to me this divorce was death, sure. 07:32 And God kept that reminding me, he said, Richard, 07:36 that's not death, it's a shadow of death. 07:39 It looks like death, then I remember it saying, 07:43 said what would you rather be run over by, 07:45 the shadow of a truck or a truck, oh that's good. 07:48 And then I said oh, I understand Lord and that was 07:53 the beginning because I knew that Satan 07:56 was trying to make me believe that the shadow 07:59 was the truck. Yes, have you ever heard 08:03 anyone say that in some ways divorce is more difficult 08:09 than the dead of spouse? yeah, because the pain is, 08:11 did you go through this where you were second guessing 08:16 yourself thinking what if I had done this differently, 08:19 that differently, yes. But there is no closure 08:21 because, yeah, the one you love so much, right, 08:24 if you the one that been rejected, yeah, yeah, 08:26 the one you love so much is rejecting you, yes. 08:30 And although there is that total separation, 08:32 there is no closure, they're still alive, 08:34 they're out there, yeah, you're hoping for 08:35 reconciliation. That's right, that's right, 08:37 you really are, and you know its at night times 08:40 that it was most difficult for me because I would, 08:42 these tapes in my mind would go over 08:46 what could I have done that was different 08:48 to what should I have done. And the tapes go round 08:53 and round with no off buttons. You know 08:55 that just never start and then you wake up 08:58 and you cry, the loss is so devastating. 09:03 And then Jesus says, hang on to me, 09:06 I am gonna bring you through this, 09:08 and you see you may have even tears while you 09:10 are going through this, but then God gives you 09:13 a peace underneath that say, you are gonna 09:15 go through this, you're gonna go through this. 09:20 Richard, they are so many people, 09:22 that I have met, counseled with, who have said 09:27 I want to avoid this pain, sometimes they try to 09:32 fill their emptiness with alcohol or just illicit 09:37 sexual affairs, sure. They are trying to avoid 09:40 this pain of rejection and separation, yes. 09:43 What was your attitude about the pain? 09:44 Well, when I am really felt was that pain drove me 09:50 to such a point in my life. In other words, 09:54 it removed any arrogance of self. 09:57 And that really is the key to a walk with God, 10:00 because once self is out of the way, 10:02 then Christ can come and be present in him. 10:06 And you can walk with him without a conflict 10:09 of saying well I want it my way or this is what 10:12 I think and this is my feelings. 10:14 No, what are your feelings are? what is your desire for me? 10:19 what do you want? And so he says, 10:21 I want you to walk through this pain as my child, 10:26 I want you to walk as my child, meaning, meaning, 10:29 the fruit is Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22, 23 love, 10:34 joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, 10:39 goodness, and self-control. I mean these are 10:42 the attributes of God's presence in me or anybody 10:46 out there who is going through a valley with God. 10:50 So, what I say to everybody is, 10:53 don't let that pain be wasted. Don't let the pain be wasted. 10:59 Now, you are gonna have to explain that 11:01 so everyone, it's really interesting. 11:02 In other words, that pain brings us to a point 11:06 were we accept God. We say, Lord, 11:11 I can't go on without you. This pain 11:14 is overwhelming and God says I will make 11:17 a good out of that one. Romans 8:28, 11:20 I can do a good out of that. Because you 11:23 have yield and surrendered before me, 11:26 you've allowed that pain to become the vehicle, 11:30 in which you yield into my arms of safety. 11:35 So, when you saying don't waste the pain, yes, 11:37 embrace the pain because that is what causes you 11:41 to drawn near to God, and as the Bible promises 11:43 in James 4:8, I believe he says, 11:46 draw near to God, God will draw near to you. 11:48 That's right. So, there is no way to rush 11:52 through this pain, but if someone tries to mask 11:56 it to become involved with other partners, 12:00 soon or just try to deny the pain. 12:03 They are cheating themselves out of that 12:05 intimacy of a new relationship with God. 12:07 Absolutely true, that vertical relationship 12:10 is so pivotal for this experience. 12:15 It's going to, if you are allow it to happen 12:17 you can bond with God in a way you've never done before, 12:21 a bond of trust and of faith, yes. 12:24 And this is so important because it isn't just important 12:29 for that moment, but believe it or not 12:31 if you have children, their little eyes and ears 12:34 are hearing and looking and they see that kind of 12:37 faith in you that's excellent for their growth in God. 12:42 And also later, because 80 or 90% of people 12:46 do remarry sooner or later and I advice not too soon. 12:49 Right. But you bring those things to God 12:53 taught to you into the second marriage. 12:55 That prevents a failure of the second marriage, 13:00 because we are seeing today, the statistics are saying, 13:02 second marriage is failing 74% of the time. 13:06 And third, 83% of the time and fourth 92% of the time. 13:11 But, when you bring what God has taught you, 13:15 take self out of the way and be God centered. 13:19 Not self-centered, but God centered, 13:20 then you walk in this new relationship 13:26 like God taught you. Earlier you mentioned 13:28 that getting rid of that self-dependence 13:32 and self-centeredness is the secret 13:33 to relationship with God. And when you said 13:35 that I thought and it's the secret to having 13:38 a good marriage as well. It is, what you know 13:41 if you had to say, what is the major 13:43 cause of relationship breakdowns 13:46 or marital breakdowns, no question, self-centeredness. 13:51 Right. You see, and Jesus said very clearly 13:54 in Luke 9:23 and Mark and Matthew, deny self, 14:00 pick up your cross, daily, and follow me, yes. 14:05 Paul said he died how often? Daily. 14:07 Yes, you see if Paul, I looked at my son, 14:10 I said if Paul had to do it daily, 14:12 I have to do it by the hour, Amen. 14:13 Yeah, so this is thing that deters that 14:17 wonderfulness of God to be in me, kindness, 14:20 gentleness, faithfulness, absolutely, see, absolutely. 14:24 So, if you were talking when Jesus said in Luke 9:23, 14:29 yeah, to deny ourselves, yeah, pick our cross, 14:32 die daily, yes, and follow him. How would you explain 14:38 if you were doing this seminar? 14:39 yeah, how do you explain denying self? 14:42 particularly when you are coming through this process, 14:45 yeah, of recovering from a divorce? 14:48 Well, you see dining self is a process of surrendering 14:56 my emotions, my mental intelligence, 15:02 my will, my desires and saying, Lord, I need to step aside, 15:09 Amen. I got to like you come in and this doesn't happen 15:13 in one day or one situation, its a growing thing, 15:16 it's a process. But, we build that process 15:20 at that most painful time and we start to do that. 15:25 Our lives will be so much better forever. 15:29 Amen, you know you're reminding me of the scripture 15:32 First Corinthians 6:17 that says, those who 15:34 are united to Christ are one with Him in spirit. 15:37 And I did the study on that word one, yes, 15:41 when he says Hear, O Israel, our Lord is one. 15:44 One God, Hallelujah! It means to be one in purpose, 15:48 thought and action. So, what you're describing 15:51 is for the person who is going through a divorce. 15:55 Yes. To just as that pain is waiting over them 15:59 and drives them to the foot of the cross 16:01 and they learn to say, Lord, not my will, 16:04 but yours be done, yeah, help me didn't pick up 16:06 my cross and died itself today. 16:08 Surrender this burden to him and to know 16:11 that they are totally depended upon the Holy Spirit, 16:14 to walk through this like a child of God, yes 16:17 and just to realize that this is something 16:21 that is going to change their life forever, 16:25 absolutely, for their eternal benefit, yes, 16:28 and happiness here on earth. And that's how you walk 16:30 through every trail, not just a divorce, 16:33 but this will not be the only pain you'll go through 16:36 in your life. Hopefully never to that degree, 16:40 but there be other difficulties in life 16:42 and it's the same process. Am I getting away 16:45 in the way of God coming in to guide me. 16:48 So, when you're learning to deny yourself, 16:51 what was your, I mean it had to be 16:54 more than just prayer, it had to be more than just 16:56 going before the Lord and saying, 16:58 okay I am here to surrender it all to you, 17:00 yeah, yeah. What tools did you use that God provided? 17:04 Scripture, the word of God at all the time. 17:06 You know, Paul said in Galatians 2:20, 17:09 I have been crucified that self. 17:11 I've been crucified with Christ, 17:14 I know no longer live; right, but what Christ lives in me, 17:19 see and then, and then in Romans 12:2 17:22 he made it very clearly, he says, 17:23 Do not be conformed to this world, 17:25 but be what? Transformed by the renewing 17:29 of your mind, Amen. You see I'm gonna put 17:32 a different pair of glasses on, so I see my difficulties 17:36 in life from God's perspective, right. 17:39 Not for my self-centered perspective oh, 17:41 you hurt me, oh you did this to me, no. 17:44 I look at it through patience and kindness. 17:48 Amen, amen, and in the word of God, 17:52 not only do we find wisdom and council, 17:56 we find comfort, yes, we find the knowledge 18:00 and of the, I mean there is how to, yeah, you know 18:03 God's word is very practical. Yes, yes. So, for you, 18:07 what was some of your journey, take us through 18:12 some of your stages as you were coming through 18:14 this and surrendering to the Lord. 18:16 And why do you believe it's important 18:19 not to seek another relationship with a person 18:23 for a period of say, I believe we've agreed 18:27 before in another program, two years, tell us about that. 18:31 Well, you know, you are very vulnerable 18:34 at that particular time. Loneliness is overwhelming, 18:39 depressed, you are seeing life even though 18:44 you are working it out with God and God's bringing you to, 18:47 still you haven't got the strength to make 18:52 wise decision, or you haven't relied enough 18:55 yet on God. And so when God 18:57 has to bring him through these things to stabilize you, 19:03 connect the vertical with God. And at that particular time 19:08 is when you will do your greatest growing. 19:10 You know, I talked to people and I counciled people 19:13 and over and over again, people say I learned 19:17 my greatest lessons in the most amount of pain, 19:20 Amen. So, that's what I mean, 19:21 don't waste that pain, lets be productive 19:25 to move you to God and cement your relationship 19:29 with God in faith and trust that he loves me 19:32 no matter what, an everlasting love 19:36 never changes regardless. Now, if I am going 19:42 through this pain and this loneliness, 19:47 what would you council me to do other then say, 19:49 I agree with you. If you were unhealthy 19:52 emotionally and after such a dramatic event, 19:55 sure, you certainly are, you will make decisions 19:58 that are unwise, right. And you will get involved 20:00 in the relationships that are unwise, yeah. 20:02 I think that's why so many second and third marriages 20:04 are fail. But, what did you do? 20:07 What would you advice me to do, our viewer to do, 20:09 if we were going through this and walking through this, 20:12 okay. What did you do practically to over come 20:15 some of this loneliness? Remember I told you put on 20:19 different pair of glasses, you don't see loneliness 20:22 as nothing. You transfer into a loneliness 20:28 with God, and that's good. This becomes a special, 20:31 unique relationship with the power 20:34 that I never had before, see this loneliness 20:37 with God it isn't I am not lonely now, see. 20:40 I am alone with God, and he is teaching me. 20:43 Another thing that helped me a great deal was 20:48 to understand what made my loneliness and especially 20:51 depression worse, was self pity. 20:54 When I started to feel sorry for myself. 20:58 I am just, you know, poor me and I felt 21:01 I had a lot of reasons, why I felt for me. 21:03 I mean you know I didn't deserve this, etc, etc. 21:06 Well, whether it's true or not? 21:09 The point is it doesn't help your depression 21:11 and your relationship with God. And so he says get 21:14 self out of the way, that's self pity. 21:16 He says and so I had a hard time doing this 21:19 and I had to make this little sticky notes 21:21 as I told you last time, that I put all over the place. 21:25 I said, tell you that in my book how 21:26 I did all this stuff, but it said MGC, 21:30 no moaning, no groaning and no complaining. 21:34 And that was a reminder that I had and I would say, 21:36 oh good, I've got it. But I had to be reminded 21:39 an hour later or next day, but those notes 21:42 were there and after while. As I began to do this, 21:46 because God wanted me to do this, 21:48 get God-centered not self-centered, 21:50 I move out of the gallery. Now did you also 21:54 during this time, not only embracing this instead of, 21:59 as you said loneliness, but looking at this is my time 22:01 to be alone with God, to get to know my Father better. 22:05 Who he is and who I am, as his child. 22:07 Did you also reach out to you church? 22:10 or did you get involved with group activities? 22:12 what would you recommend for someone who is doing this? 22:16 Very important to get with Godly people 22:18 and I mean this very sincerely. If you get involved with 22:23 wrong people, they will force or lets say foster 22:28 a negative attitude which fosters ungodly behavior. 22:34 So, you have to get really Godly he who really 22:38 understand what it means to die this self, 22:41 surrender to Christ so they he may live in me 22:43 and that his will is working in me, Amen. 22:47 See and that's so pivotal, Amen. Very important next 22:51 as you wanna get in groups perhaps of fellowship, 22:57 Bible studies are excellent. I recommend divorce care 23:01 seminars and I give them, I've been giving them 23:04 for six years. There are in all of many 23:07 Christian churches have them. And if you don't have one 23:09 in your church, well go to one that does. 23:12 And they are Bible centered and there you have 23:16 other people who have gonna through the same thing 23:18 you have, except some of them are further along. 23:21 And so you can see there is hope for me. 23:24 And of course are many good books out there 23:27 and I recommend to start with the one I wrote, 23:31 because that's, that's the reason I wrote it, 23:33 I wanted to reach those people. 23:35 It's a wonderful book, now let me ask you 23:37 this if we've discuss this on another program, 23:42 but I am sure that we mentioned it today 23:44 that is you and I both agree on something 23:47 and that is someone who has come through 23:50 the traumatic event of a divorce or even the death 23:53 of spouse I would say, sure, yeah. 23:54 You should wait at least two years, yes, 23:57 before you begin to date again, yes, yes. 24:00 And you did you waited two-and-half years 24:03 and actually trying to reconcile 24:04 with your wife didn't you? Yes, we are leaving it open, 24:06 leaving it open for reconciliation, yes, yes. 24:09 But also it was a time for healing, 24:12 this is a very precious time to move closer to God, 24:16 because you don't have the kind of time you have now. 24:20 Because you may get married and end up raising, 24:22 having another family or having household chores, 24:25 but now you're alone. And so it's a time to really 24:29 get the vertical with God. And that's the most precious 24:35 time because you heal and now when you come to date. 24:41 I don't expect, I don't recommend 24:43 going out dating, I suggest you do it in group settings. 24:47 Because you're gonna, many of you have been 24:48 married for quite a while, you're gonna feel awkward. 24:51 I mean, you know I'm dating, you know, 24:53 I mean this is awkward. So, you be in group settings 24:57 and you have an opportunity to watch people 25:01 in their character and their spirituality 25:05 and you have no, you have not committed yourself see, 25:07 right. And that's good to do. 25:10 Amen, no for our viewers if you would like to know 25:14 that Richard is happily remarried, 25:17 he waited five years and the Lord has blessed him 25:20 with so much more than you ever anticipated 25:23 hasn't he? But let me get back to 25:25 we only got a couple of minutes left in program, 25:27 so let me ask this quickly. Surrendering self 25:31 to God is critical, we have to be emptied of self 25:35 to be filled with the Holy Spirit, correct, 25:37 and that peace and the love and the fruit 25:39 of this spirits, right, love, joy, peace, etc. 25:42 What happens though when you're walking 25:45 in the fruit of the spirit, you know, you're filled 25:47 with Holy Spirit, yes, and all of the sudden 25:49 that old pain just slams you right in the face again, 25:52 it just and it does doesn't it? 25:54 It ambushes you, okay, you don't expect it. 25:57 How do you get past those moments? 25:58 It's a surprise, and that's part 26:00 of the learning process. See that's the part 26:02 of the time when you just get back and say, 26:04 what has God taught me. Oh! Yes! 26:08 Walk with God in the pain, be his child. 26:14 Walk, no self pity, just walk with God. 26:21 Take your glasses off, put his on, 26:24 you can do this and it's being vulnerable 26:27 in order to be able to be in God's grace. 26:31 Because you are not afraid of what people 26:33 are gonna do, because God is with me, Amen. 26:36 God is protecting me, he is walking me through. 26:40 That person there is not walking me through 26:42 my church is helping, but they're not walking 26:44 me through. God is walking me through 26:45 and he is all powerful, Amen. So, I don't have to worry 26:49 about oh! I have to, somebody may do this 26:52 or say no, no I can be truthful and honest. 26:56 Amen, you know we started off today 27:00 talking Hebrews 13:20, yeah. 27:02 How God, the God of peace is the one 27:06 who will equip us to do his will, and as Richard 27:10 as said to take us through these times of great trouble. 27:14 Richard, we've got to have you come back 27:16 because there things we need to talk more 27:18 about in that, particularly that forgiveness aspect. 27:20 How do you for give your spouse and go forward? 27:23 Thank you so much, you're welcome, 27:25 for being with us here today, yeah thank you. 27:26 And we look forward to having you come back. 27:29 For those of you at home, remember this, no matter 27:31 why you are going through, God loves you with 27:34 an everlasting love, and He promises that 27:37 that His everlasting arms are beneath you 27:39 and that He will trust out the enemy from before you 27:42 getting him out of the way. Now, until next time, 27:46 may the love of our Lord Jesus Christ, 27:48 the grace of the Father and the fellowship 27:50 with the Holy Spirit be with you for always. |
Revised 2014-12-17