Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and welcome again to
another Issues and Answers.
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We've got an
exciting program for you today
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and to start it off,
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I want to share
a story with you.
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If you're familiar
with the Old Testament
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then the name
Hezekiah may ring a bell.
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King Hezekiah was a
wonderful godly man,
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and the Lord really
blessed his life greatly.
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When Hezekiah had an extension
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to is life as an
answer to prayer.
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He had a son by
the name of Manasseh
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and the Manasseh
eventually became King,
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but he wasn't
anything like his Father.
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In fact, King Manasseh
was the most wicked King
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that had ever
reigned over the Kingdom.
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Let me read you a verse from
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Second Kings 21 and verse 6,
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The Bible said, he
made his sons pass through
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the fire and burned them
as an offering to Molech,
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that's a God
that he... a false God
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that he was
worshiping. He practiced sorcery
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and dealt with
mediums and wizards.
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He did much
wickedness in the sight
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of the Lord
provoking him to anger.
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In fact he became
so wicked that the Lord
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allowed him to be
carried off into captivity.
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And the way in
which they took him,
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if they put a hook in his nose
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and it was just like
they were leading him off
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like they were
reeling in a fish.
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But if you want to see grace
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in action in the Old Testament,
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all we have do is
look at Manasseh's story
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because when he
was there in captivity,
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finally he cried out to the Lord
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and God not only forgave Him
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but he restored
him to his Kingdom.
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And you know what?
We have with us today
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someone that I'm very fond of.
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He is our 3ABN
Radio Production Manager.
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He works here for 3ABN
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and he does so
many wonderful things.
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I want to welcome Jay Christian.
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Thank you. Jay, I'm so
glad you could be here.
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I'm thrilled to be here.
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And I'll bet when
we are talking about
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King Manasseh and this
story I know the Lord gave us
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to be just as though we
were beginning this program,
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this is where we should start.
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Doesn't it ring a
bell? Yeah, it does.
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I can identify
with that perfectly,
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because that's pretty
much what happened to me.
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I wasn't a King,
but I should got off
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on the wrong road,
and when I found out
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I was on the
wrong road I repented
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and look where I am now.
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Well, we're gonna be talking
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today about New Age involvement
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and how that poor Jay got stuck
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kind of in a
quagmire there for a while,
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but how the Lord led you out.
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And lets begin,
tell me how you grew up?
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Did you grow up
in a Christian home?
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I did more or less,
and I say more or less,
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And my mom and dad
were both Christians
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and there were
part of a Church on,
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and I don't want
to make it sound bad,
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I'll say that they were members
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of the Lutheran Church,
I'm not saying anything bad
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about the Lutheran
Church. Or anything bad
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about my parents,
but their belief was,
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if we go to church on Sunday
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and we go for an
hour and that's it,
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except for
Vacation Bible School.
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Now, they would send
me off during the summer,
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any change they
had to get me out
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of the house for a while,
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they would do
that. But other than,
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most Sundays we were
in church for an hour.
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And there was never
any talk about God at home.
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We never read the Bible,
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never any
blessings over the food,
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anything like
that. And so, I had some
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curiosity about God, I
would hear a little bit
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in sermons now and then
that peaked my interest,
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but I just really
didn't know that much about it.
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Well, what was your
growing up in this environment,
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what did you
learn to love the Lord
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or what were you
feeling toward God?
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Well, I was curious, at
that age before I went into,
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now in the Lutheran
Church they have catechism,
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which is very similar
to the Catholic Church.
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Of course we all know
the history of Lutherans,
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Martin Luther broke away,
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he started the
Protestant movement.
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And so, as he still
had a lot close ties,
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too many of the things
that the Catholics did,
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and one of the things
that they did was catechism,
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two years of studying the Bible.
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And you go through that and then
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you are brought into the church.
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And so, and of course
I was baptized as a baby,
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I was sprinkled as baby.
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So there is no baptism involved
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or anything like
that, it was just that okay,
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you're finished, here
is your piece of paper,
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congratulations,
you're a member of the church.
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And so at 13
that's when it started
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and up to that
point I didn't know
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that much about
God. And I was curious.
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What was your
understanding as you grew older,
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did you draw near to
the Lord or did you...
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what was your, I
guess, like for me, I grew up,
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I understood
who Jesus Christ was
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and I had a
love affair with Him.
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But I was taught that
God was up in the heavens,
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looking down, ready
just to zap me anytime
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that I made a
mistake. So I feared the Father
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and I really
didn't know anything about
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the Holy Spirit. So, I grow
up kind of not understanding
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much at all about
God, how about you?
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Well, I've heard that
story from other people
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and I was not taught that way,
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it was just, he was there,
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we went to church every
Sunday and that was that.
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So I was curious,
so when we got into
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the catechism classes, I
wanted to learn questions.
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Now one of the
things that you may know
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about me in the time
we've had to work together
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is I'm a question asker.
Yes. If there is something
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I want to know, I ask questions,
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that's the only
way that I learn.
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And, so I should
say that's the only way,
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but that's a big
way that I learned.
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And so we start
studying the Bible a little bit,
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and so my hand goes up
and I start asking questions.
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I start asking
questions about Adam and Eve.
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I start asking
questions about this and that.
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And eventually
the pastor just got
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a little irritated with me,
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I would see him roll
his eyes a little bit,
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my hand would go up
and his eyes would roll,
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oh no, not him again.
And so eventually I became
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discouraged and I
didn't ask as many questions,
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I learned what I
needed to learn along the way.
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But along the way I also
learned the doctrine of hell.
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Okay. And that is
where, if you don't do exactly
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what God says
then you're going to
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burn forever in hell.
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You're going to
be writhing in pain,
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you won't have a moment's peace
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and you're gonna be
in agony for eternity.
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So, we'll say that
was a Lutheran doctrine,
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not really a Bible doctrine.
Yes, yes that's the way
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we were studying the Bible.
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And that's what
they were saying.
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And so I didn't like
that and it made me mad.
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And by the time I
got out of catechism
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and became an official
member of the Lutheran church,
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I was mad at God and didn't want
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to have anything to do with him.
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I felt that any God who would do
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that was not a loving
God, I wouldn't serve Him
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and even if it
meant that I was going to
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burn forever in
hell. And so, I just,
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I really hated Him,
but I didn't want to.
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I wanted to love
him, but I hated him.
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Because, you know, if
we look at something like
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that on a personal
level, in our lives.
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If there is
somebody that we work with
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or somebody that's
our neighbor or whatever,
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and if they didn't like you,
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if they took a disliking to you,
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they'd come over
immediately and beat you up,
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how friendly do you want
to be with that neighbor.
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It was the same way with God.
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And so I just ignored Him.
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I had my own personal
code that I tried to live by,
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don't ever do that.
But at least I thought
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I can be a good
person if I can't love God.
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You know, we don't
have time unfortunately
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to go into this whole issue,
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but I just want
take a moment and say,
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I had same
experience that I thought
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how could he be a God of love
and then burn people forever.
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That would make
Him worse than Hitler,
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wouldn't it, to make us.
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He would be then
persecuting and punishing
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and tormenting
people for eternity.
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And if that's
what you've been taught
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or if you're just
inquiring and you don't know
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what to believe. I
encourage you to call 3ABN
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ask for the Pastoral Department
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or just call
the 3ABN call center
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and ask what they
can send you about hell.
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Because, what
happened with me Jay
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is even before I
became an Adventist,
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the Lord led me in a study
in the Greek and in the Hebrew.
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And as I studied
these words about, you know,
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eternal burning and found out
00:08:35.09\00:08:37.76
that when it
says forever and ever,
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that it just
meant a specified time
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and then I began studying
the scriptures that said,
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that they'd be burned to ashes
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and we trample on their ashes.
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Then I learned, as you now know,
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that God does not
punish people eternally
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and in that there
is never an end to it.
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They're burned up. So,
we'll go on from there.
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Tell us how then, here you
get this hatred toward God,
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if you will,
thinking you can't be
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who you claim to
be, a God of love,
00:09:06.41\00:09:08.12
if this is who you will
do. Then what, how did you,
00:09:08.51\00:09:12.06
the devil kind of planted
this thought in you mind,
00:09:12.49\00:09:14.62
it became his stronghold.
00:09:14.63\00:09:15.71
How did he lead
you into the New Age?
00:09:16.04\00:09:18.33
Well, I will say that I
wanted to find a loving God.
00:09:18.92\00:09:21.69
And even when all
of this was happening
00:09:22.46\00:09:24.36
I didn't reject the
fact that he existed.
00:09:24.37\00:09:26.62
Okay. I just
shook my fist at him
00:09:26.63\00:09:28.19
and would have
nothing to do with him,
00:09:28.20\00:09:29.51
if that's the way
he was going to be.
00:09:29.52\00:09:30.89
Well, I was living outside
00:09:31.33\00:09:33.57
Los Angeles in
Long Beach, California.
00:09:33.58\00:09:35.83
And the neighbor
lady, the neighbor couple
00:09:36.09\00:09:38.53
came up to me,
the lady was speaking.
00:09:38.54\00:09:39.87
And we talked for a little while
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and they invited
me to go to a meeting
00:09:42.45\00:09:47.02
they called it,
in North Hollywood.
00:09:47.03\00:09:49.38
And learn about
self hypnosis. Okay.
00:09:49.89\00:09:52.99
And so, I am
saying, well, I wonder
00:09:53.35\00:09:55.67
what's the
benefit of self hypnosis.
00:09:55.68\00:09:57.31
But I read an
article in newspaper about
00:09:57.76\00:09:59.88
two weeks before,
wasn't by accident
00:09:59.89\00:10:02.38
that there was this
believe about reincarnation,
00:10:02.88\00:10:06.65
about having lived former lives.
00:10:06.66\00:10:08.35
And it's entirely
different in Christianity,
00:10:08.85\00:10:11.05
but a lot of people believe it.
00:10:11.06\00:10:12.39
And so I said, does
this meeting have anything
00:10:12.89\00:10:15.83
to do with talking
about reincarnation.
00:10:15.84\00:10:17.50
And he said, well
yes, actually it does,
00:10:17.51\00:10:20.25
and I said okay, I'll
go. Because I was curious.
00:10:20.26\00:10:23.00
And so I went
and a lot of things
00:10:23.41\00:10:26.64
happened during sessions.
So I went through about
00:10:26.65\00:10:28.82
14, 16 weeks of lessons there.
00:10:29.43\00:10:31.97
And there were some
things that happened
00:10:32.77\00:10:35.04
when I first
walked through the door,
00:10:35.05\00:10:36.43
and some things that they
made me a little bit nervous.
00:10:37.00\00:10:39.39
They were candles
all over the place.
00:10:39.40\00:10:41.12
And nothing
inherently wrong with candles,
00:10:42.23\00:10:44.40
but just the way
that they were placed
00:10:44.41\00:10:45.89
and the way that they were used.
00:10:45.90\00:10:47.29
And the atmosphere in
there, there was a little bit of
00:10:47.77\00:10:49.67
a warning in the back
of my head that I ignored.
00:10:49.68\00:10:51.58
I also ignored another warning
00:10:52.46\00:10:54.64
as we got into it
in Deuteronomy 18,
00:10:54.65\00:10:56.99
The Bible tells us to
stay away from mediums,
00:10:57.74\00:11:02.48
soothsayers,
people who speak with
00:11:02.49\00:11:04.86
the dead and all of that.
00:11:04.87\00:11:06.57
And that is the one thing,
00:11:08.02\00:11:10.47
when I got out
of my catechism that
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.82
I could have told
you that I learned.
00:11:12.83\00:11:14.15
Actually two
things, you know number one,
00:11:14.99\00:11:16.74
I hated God
because of what I believed
00:11:16.75\00:11:18.11
his doctrine in hell was.
00:11:18.12\00:11:19.38
But the second one was that,
00:11:19.70\00:11:21.44
we should stay away
from people like that.
00:11:23.48\00:11:24.89
And so the text
came right to my mind
00:11:25.36\00:11:28.71
when I went there and
when I started learning
00:11:28.72\00:11:31.49
these things and I
kept ignoring them.
00:11:31.50\00:11:33.59
So eventually
the text went away.
00:11:33.60\00:11:35.24
So, now as a
Lutheran were you taught
00:11:35.75\00:11:38.97
that man had an immortal soul?
00:11:38.98\00:11:41.51
Yes. So, you weren't
aware of this scripture
00:11:41.52\00:11:43.84
in First
Timothy 16:16 that says,
00:11:43.85\00:11:46.85
God alone has
immortality and lives
00:11:46.86\00:11:50.29
in unapproachable light. Right.
00:11:50.30\00:11:51.86
So, you were already then setup,
00:11:51.87\00:11:53.96
just because you'd
not been taught the truth
00:11:53.97\00:11:57.12
about man being a mortal being,
00:11:57.13\00:11:59.48
unless he receives
immortality from Jesus Christ
00:11:59.49\00:12:02.28
which First Corinthians 15 says,
00:12:02.39\00:12:04.09
We put on at the
time of his second coming.
00:12:04.45\00:12:07.26
So you were
already setup for this idea
00:12:08.15\00:12:10.84
that man had an immortal soul.
00:12:10.85\00:12:12.98
And now you're there,
surrounded by the candles,
00:12:13.36\00:12:16.21
not really paying
attention to this warning,
00:12:16.69\00:12:19.31
this red flag that
comes up, what happened?
00:12:19.32\00:12:21.55
Well, see and what you
say is a good question.
00:12:21.56\00:12:23.81
Because there are so
many people that believe
00:12:23.82\00:12:26.94
the fact that we
have an immortal soul.
00:12:26.95\00:12:30.75
And so the
question automatically came
00:12:31.18\00:12:33.18
into my mind, one of the
justifying questions that,
00:12:33.19\00:12:37.55
or one of the
answers that justified
00:12:38.14\00:12:39.81
by getting involved in this,
00:12:40.22\00:12:41.58
was the fact that if
I have an immortal soul,
00:12:41.86\00:12:43.52
why couldn't it
go into another body.
00:12:43.53\00:12:45.65
Right. Why not.
And so, when I went
00:12:45.66\00:12:50.90
through these
sessions, when I went through
00:12:50.91\00:12:52.81
the meetings, my
whole goal in doing
00:12:52.82\00:12:56.62
that was to
experience a former life.
00:12:56.63\00:12:58.60
Yes. And I did, a couple
of times during the meetings.
00:12:59.00\00:13:03.13
And yet when I
walked away from there,
00:13:03.49\00:13:05.42
I still questioned,
okay, that happened.
00:13:06.31\00:13:09.07
Was it real? What was that?
00:13:09.48\00:13:11.36
But it answered a
few things in my mind,
00:13:11.37\00:13:13.84
but it opened up a
whole bunch of more questions,
00:13:13.85\00:13:16.08
but I got involved with it.
00:13:16.90\00:13:18.16
And the more I got involved,
00:13:18.17\00:13:20.02
the less I thought
about Deuteronomy 18,
00:13:20.03\00:13:22.67
stay away from
this sort of thing.
00:13:22.68\00:13:24.14
And instead I
thought I found a loving God.
00:13:24.68\00:13:27.28
See I wanted to
find a loving God.
00:13:27.29\00:13:28.87
Yes. That was
very important to me.
00:13:28.88\00:13:30.21
And all of a sudden, he
was a God that wasn't going
00:13:30.76\00:13:32.81
to burn me forever in hell,
00:13:32.82\00:13:34.24
just because over
my short length of life
00:13:34.25\00:13:37.09
on this earth that
I wouldn't serve Him.
00:13:37.10\00:13:39.66
And so, a million years
from now I be burning in hell,
00:13:40.46\00:13:43.32
20 million years from now,
I be burning in hell for the,
00:13:43.33\00:13:45.86
however, many years
I lived on this earth.
00:13:45.87\00:13:48.02
A 100 plus I was hoping,
00:13:48.03\00:13:50.00
but whatever it was going to be.
00:13:50.01\00:13:51.20
I just, I couldn't serve Him.
00:13:51.59\00:13:53.58
And now all of a sudden,
00:13:53.94\00:13:54.91
here's a God who
gave me all of my chances.
00:13:54.92\00:13:56.83
Because with the
belief in reincarnation.
00:13:56.84\00:13:59.02
It's where we
have an immortal soul
00:13:59.55\00:14:01.55
and it goes into, when we die,
00:14:02.29\00:14:04.80
it goes into, just to make a,
00:14:04.81\00:14:07.49
it can be kind of complicated,
00:14:07.50\00:14:09.04
but just to make it simple.
00:14:09.05\00:14:10.14
It goes into another
baby, where we're raised,
00:14:10.15\00:14:13.54
where we grow
up and when we die,
00:14:13.55\00:14:15.57
it goes into another baby.
00:14:15.58\00:14:16.56
And the concept is called karma.
00:14:16.57\00:14:18.89
And that's where
when we do bad things
00:14:19.22\00:14:20.83
we make up for
them in other lives.
00:14:21.21\00:14:22.77
So, say in maybe
in the past life,
00:14:23.15\00:14:26.32
I killed you, I was mad at you.
00:14:27.00\00:14:28.80
You and I were together,
entirely different people
00:14:28.81\00:14:31.25
and I killed you in anger,
00:14:31.81\00:14:33.96
in this life time
you may get to kill me.
00:14:34.59\00:14:36.51
Only you're not held
accountable for that,
00:14:36.97\00:14:39.00
it's considered to be evening,
00:14:39.01\00:14:41.45
evening it out to
where what you did,
00:14:42.14\00:14:45.64
got rid of my karma.
And so, what is that works,
00:14:46.15\00:14:49.56
salvation by works. And
here was a God who said,
00:14:49.57\00:14:52.66
I don't care how many life times
00:14:52.67\00:14:54.24
it takes for you to
live, I just want you to live
00:14:54.25\00:14:56.71
with me forever in heaven.
00:14:56.72\00:14:57.85
And I thought, wow!
That's a loving God,
00:14:58.66\00:15:00.70
it's not like
that guy I read about,
00:15:00.71\00:15:02.13
where they told me
that the Bible said that
00:15:03.29\00:15:05.42
this guy is going to
burn me forever in hell.
00:15:05.43\00:15:07.80
I can get behind this guy.
00:15:07.81\00:15:09.22
And so I started
learning more and more.
00:15:09.73\00:15:11.40
Reading about reincarnation
and the different things
00:15:11.41\00:15:15.63
from Edgar Cayce.
And briefly he was a man
00:15:15.64\00:15:18.97
who lived until 1945,
00:15:18.98\00:15:21.37
and he went into
trances and so forth.
00:15:21.78\00:15:24.15
And his trances came,
the information that taught
00:15:24.16\00:15:27.90
a lot of people
about the occult.
00:15:27.91\00:15:29.77
He channeled
spirits, and is essentially
00:15:30.06\00:15:33.40
what was going on, he was
channeling demonic spirits,
00:15:33.41\00:15:35.87
But you know, as
I'm sitting here,
00:15:36.23\00:15:37.54
you know, we work
together now for 18 months.
00:15:37.81\00:15:40.13
And you work in a
building at a different part
00:15:40.14\00:15:43.86
of the campus than I do,
00:15:43.87\00:15:45.06
so we really don't get to spend
00:15:45.07\00:15:46.37
that much time
together. And at church,
00:15:46.38\00:15:48.44
we usually don't
talking about your testimony,
00:15:48.45\00:15:50.58
if we, we're
talking about your family.
00:15:50.59\00:15:52.47
And it just
occurred to me though,
00:15:52.96\00:15:54.60
that when someone has
the wrong picture of God.
00:15:54.94\00:15:59.90
If just through the teaching,
00:16:00.43\00:16:02.45
an erroneous
teaching about hell.
00:16:03.21\00:16:06.08
Someone can be setup
through any error of teaching.
00:16:06.65\00:16:09.69
They can be setup to
be sucked into New Age
00:16:10.03\00:16:13.38
or the occult practices.
Yes. So here, you had the wrong
00:16:13.39\00:16:18.85
picture of God
that you didn't like,
00:16:18.86\00:16:20.86
now you've got the
wrong picture of God that
00:16:21.13\00:16:23.27
you do like and to me
and I am sure to you now
00:16:23.28\00:16:26.03
it sounds
terrifying to me to think that
00:16:26.61\00:16:28.94
you have to keep coming
back over and over and over.
00:16:28.95\00:16:31.91
Trying to workout
your own salvation.
00:16:31.92\00:16:33.70
But that sounded better than
burning in hell for eternity.
00:16:34.04\00:16:36.88
So, how long did
you, as you started
00:16:37.21\00:16:39.69
getting involved in this,
00:16:40.13\00:16:41.79
you became more
and more involved,
00:16:41.80\00:16:43.95
what effect was it
having on your life?
00:16:43.96\00:16:45.79
Well, an interesting
question, because there were
00:16:46.48\00:16:49.97
some good things
and some bad things
00:16:49.98\00:16:51.55
that were
happening. I, over 20 years
00:16:51.56\00:16:55.41
I was in New Age and I
was married three times.
00:16:55.42\00:16:58.44
So, when you go into a marriage,
00:16:58.76\00:17:00.03
thinking boy, I
really love this person
00:17:00.29\00:17:02.31
and I hope that
I'm going to spend
00:17:02.64\00:17:03.81
the rest of my life with her.
00:17:03.82\00:17:04.79
But, if it doesn't workout,
00:17:05.08\00:17:07.38
well, we can
always get divorced.
00:17:07.39\00:17:08.95
And it was that. There
is no commitment to that.
00:17:09.40\00:17:11.50
And it's not fun
going through a divorce,
00:17:11.94\00:17:15.24
but you think that
well and I believe,
00:17:15.25\00:17:16.99
at least if it doesn't
workout we can do that.
00:17:17.00\00:17:18.90
And I am sure
that they were thinking
00:17:18.91\00:17:20.20
the same thing as well.
00:17:20.21\00:17:21.24
And so, when I got married
and things didn't workout,
00:17:21.68\00:17:26.45
got divorced three
times. I in my first marriage.
00:17:27.26\00:17:31.23
Was there karma involved
if you did something bad
00:17:31.24\00:17:33.29
in one marriage that
said you had to do your.
00:17:33.30\00:17:35.11
Well, sometimes,
sometimes karma stays
00:17:35.69\00:17:37.62
in the same life and sometime
00:17:37.63\00:17:38.86
it moves to
different life. Yeah.
00:17:38.87\00:17:39.92
But you when, when something bad
00:17:39.93\00:17:42.86
happens to you,
it's very easy to say,
00:17:42.87\00:17:44.80
oh! that was just karma.
00:17:44.81\00:17:46.06
And so my divorce, see
sometimes you never know.
00:17:47.44\00:17:51.66
Am I creating
karma for the future
00:17:52.46\00:17:54.80
or am I paying
karma for the past?
00:17:54.81\00:17:56.93
So you just always try
to do something that's good.
00:17:56.94\00:17:59.82
But I do have a
wonderful daughter, Jody.
00:18:00.51\00:18:02.67
And she now
lives in South Carolina
00:18:03.14\00:18:05.44
and from my first marriage.
00:18:06.02\00:18:07.22
And so that was a
true blessing from that.
00:18:07.98\00:18:10.54
I was married two
other times at the same time
00:18:10.87\00:18:13.07
I was building my
career in Broadcast Radio,
00:18:13.08\00:18:16.61
in Secular Radio not
Christian Radio by any means,
00:18:17.17\00:18:20.19
rock n roll and
country and all of that.
00:18:20.20\00:18:23.46
And my career was
moving up, but at the same time
00:18:24.17\00:18:28.89
my personal
life was moving down.
00:18:30.53\00:18:32.74
And so, you know I
guess it be kind of a pain,
00:18:33.85\00:18:36.48
after a while,
when you can't workout
00:18:36.93\00:18:38.53
relationships with
people. And I was married
00:18:38.54\00:18:40.45
three times and
I've dated numerous times
00:18:40.46\00:18:42.67
throughout my life as well.
00:18:42.68\00:18:43.74
And for one reason
or another relationships
00:18:43.75\00:18:45.40
just weren't
working. And I asked myself
00:18:45.41\00:18:49.07
whether I am
doing something wrong,
00:18:49.08\00:18:50.28
am I just
selecting the wrong people,
00:18:50.29\00:18:51.65
is something wrong with me.
00:18:51.66\00:18:52.63
All the questions
that most people ask.
00:18:52.64\00:18:54.39
But my Radio
career was really starting
00:18:55.14\00:18:57.91
to blossom in many ways.
00:18:57.92\00:19:00.37
But, it sounds kind of funny,
00:19:00.79\00:19:02.38
I am saying my
career was blossoming,
00:19:02.39\00:19:04.09
but I got fired several times.
00:19:04.10\00:19:05.78
And for anybody in the audience
00:19:06.20\00:19:08.68
who knows anything about Radio,
00:19:08.69\00:19:10.31
especially Secular
Radio, they understand
00:19:10.32\00:19:12.69
that's part of the process
00:19:12.70\00:19:13.84
and you do get
fired quite often.
00:19:13.85\00:19:16.02
But it still
doesn't make you feel good,
00:19:16.57\00:19:18.65
you don't like that.
And so, I was moving up
00:19:18.66\00:19:20.93
in my career and I was doing
00:19:20.94\00:19:23.56
better and better
there, I was finally.
00:19:23.57\00:19:25.99
So, you were
gaining more popularity,
00:19:26.00\00:19:27.62
you just get fired and
have to go another station.
00:19:27.63\00:19:30.53
Yeah, I would go
to another station,
00:19:30.54\00:19:31.51
and whenever I got fired,
00:19:31.52\00:19:32.49
I always ended up
going to a better station.
00:19:32.50\00:19:34.14
It was like I
got kicked upstairs.
00:19:34.15\00:19:35.71
Okay. And so I like that,
00:19:35.72\00:19:37.14
so I would go to
a bigger station,
00:19:37.15\00:19:38.66
a better station,
I'd earn more money.
00:19:38.67\00:19:40.11
And in my Secular Radio career
00:19:40.71\00:19:44.12
and I say this humbly,
00:19:44.13\00:19:45.10
but I was very
fortunate to have programmed,
00:19:45.27\00:19:47.56
I was Program
Director, Operations Manager
00:19:47.57\00:19:49.79
of a lot of stations.
And one of the stations
00:19:49.80\00:19:52.71
that I programmed
was the highest rated
00:19:52.72\00:19:54.63
Radio Station in the
entire of United States.
00:19:54.64\00:19:56.96
And I did a
program in the afternoons,
00:19:57.53\00:19:59.49
we call Afternoon
Drive. And that was also
00:19:59.50\00:20:01.59
the highest rated Radio Station,
00:20:01.60\00:20:03.31
the highest
rated disc jockey show
00:20:03.61\00:20:05.60
in afternoons in
the nation as well.
00:20:05.61\00:20:08.33
So, I was... I was
blessed by the Lord,
00:20:08.70\00:20:10.94
even though, and I do say that,
00:20:11.60\00:20:13.61
even though I was in New Age,
00:20:13.62\00:20:14.83
God didn't forget
who I was or where I was.
00:20:14.84\00:20:17.34
And I can look back over my life
00:20:18.07\00:20:20.15
and I can see
where God helped me,
00:20:20.56\00:20:22.69
even in the times
when I was a 180 degrees
00:20:23.14\00:20:26.57
probably away from
where he wanted me to be.
00:20:26.58\00:20:28.56
He was still with me.
00:20:28.98\00:20:29.99
And so I was doing well there.
00:20:30.43\00:20:32.11
I got married again,
someone that I felt that,
00:20:33.03\00:20:36.22
we've both have felt
that we've been together
00:20:36.23\00:20:37.97
in former lives and
had shared different
00:20:37.98\00:20:39.93
memories of those former lives.
00:20:39.94\00:20:41.90
And she would say something,
00:20:41.91\00:20:43.84
as to all, you know,
that's the dream I had.
00:20:43.85\00:20:45.62
That's the thought I had,
00:20:45.63\00:20:46.60
that's exactly the way
I saw it and vice versa.
00:20:46.61\00:20:48.63
And a good woman,
but we just couldn't...
00:20:49.77\00:20:51.93
and so was my first wife,
all of them were nice people,
00:20:52.47\00:20:55.40
I can't say a
bad thing about them.
00:20:55.41\00:20:56.73
We just didn't get along.
00:20:56.74\00:20:58.40
And so, got
divorced the second time.
00:20:59.26\00:21:01.43
And I meet a young woman
that was a listener of mine
00:21:02.83\00:21:08.18
and we seemed to
hit it off pretty well.
00:21:08.97\00:21:10.73
And so, I decided,
well I'm going to do
00:21:11.76\00:21:14.13
it again for the
third time, because I'm sure
00:21:14.14\00:21:15.74
this is the right
one. And it wasn't.
00:21:15.75\00:21:19.49
And just as we
were getting married,
00:21:20.97\00:21:23.37
and my career was moving real,
00:21:24.10\00:21:26.47
moving real well, I got fired.
00:21:27.72\00:21:30.11
And I thought, I told her,
00:21:31.71\00:21:34.34
I said you know
this might be something
00:21:34.35\00:21:35.76
you might be wanna be aware of,
00:21:35.77\00:21:37.05
this can happen. So I
don't care where ever you go,
00:21:37.06\00:21:38.67
I don't care what happens.
00:21:38.72\00:21:39.69
And so, we got
married, I got another job,
00:21:40.02\00:21:42.70
kicked upstairs
again. Got another job.
00:21:42.71\00:21:45.30
And after about a year and half,
00:21:46.06\00:21:47.45
two years I got fired from that.
00:21:47.46\00:21:48.72
And I shouldn't
have, because the ratings
00:21:48.73\00:21:51.31
were very well, we were
very well received in town,
00:21:51.32\00:21:54.49
we were doing, we were
getting national attention on
00:21:54.61\00:21:57.81
what were doing and everything.
00:21:57.82\00:21:59.20
And also, and just out
of the blue I was fired.
00:21:59.21\00:22:00.97
So, I went to, and that was,
00:22:02.10\00:22:04.39
I was in
Cleveland, Ohio at the time.
00:22:04.40\00:22:06.11
I went to San
Francisco, a major jump up.
00:22:06.12\00:22:08.40
And doing very well
there and just all of a sudden,
00:22:08.82\00:22:11.06
I got fired there as well.
00:22:11.07\00:22:12.34
And after that, my wife decided,
00:22:12.90\00:22:15.79
enough of this, enough of him,
00:22:15.80\00:22:17.20
I am gone. And
so, she divorced me.
00:22:17.21\00:22:19.52
Okay, so now Jay, we've only got
00:22:20.38\00:22:22.21
about five minutes left.
Okay. I want to pull this in.
00:22:22.22\00:22:25.43
And here you're at the
end of your third marriage,
00:22:25.97\00:22:27.83
you're still
practicing New Age beliefs.
00:22:27.84\00:22:30.96
You have a beautiful young woman
00:22:32.96\00:22:35.47
who comes to work
for you and I say that,
00:22:35.48\00:22:38.07
because I know her personally,
00:22:38.08\00:22:39.74
and this is
current wife Annette.
00:22:39.75\00:22:41.87
And there was
something very different
00:22:42.41\00:22:45.26
about this woman,
you're not looking for anyone,
00:22:45.27\00:22:47.85
she's not looking for anyone.
00:22:47.86\00:22:49.53
Tell us how the Lord
brought Annette into your life
00:22:49.54\00:22:52.89
and how he used
her to reach you?
00:22:52.90\00:22:54.66
Well, after that last divorce,
00:22:55.16\00:22:57.75
I went into a major depression
00:22:57.76\00:23:00.42
and I just gave up entirely,
00:23:00.95\00:23:02.24
relationships,
marriages and everything else.
00:23:02.25\00:23:04.21
I ended up working at a
small station in Tennessee,
00:23:04.85\00:23:07.20
and a woman went to work for me.
00:23:07.21\00:23:08.57
And interesting, but we
didn't talk all that much.
00:23:09.32\00:23:13.95
We eventually started
talking about the Bible.
00:23:14.33\00:23:16.93
And I didn't have that
good of an opinion of the Bible,
00:23:17.67\00:23:20.77
you know its okay for
people who can't understand.
00:23:20.78\00:23:22.54
We started
discussing certain things,
00:23:22.55\00:23:24.53
I thought that she was
really kind of interesting
00:23:24.54\00:23:27.17
and so we would talk some more.
00:23:27.18\00:23:28.59
She recommended a
couple of books to me,
00:23:28.95\00:23:30.66
one of them was Desire
of Ages and I loved that.
00:23:30.67\00:23:33.92
And the last part of
the Great Controversy
00:23:33.93\00:23:37.14
and I read that.
And she invited me
00:23:37.79\00:23:40.02
to come to church.
Well, I wanted to do that
00:23:40.03\00:23:42.39
because I wanted
bring her into New Age.
00:23:42.40\00:23:44.19
And I figured if I
could discredit her preacher,
00:23:44.20\00:23:46.03
which I was pretty
good at doing that.
00:23:46.04\00:23:47.43
Then she would see
how wrong her religion was
00:23:48.57\00:23:52.49
and she needed to be in New Age.
00:23:52.50\00:23:53.81
And instead, the
pastor, his name is John Riggs.
00:23:54.64\00:23:59.03
He talked me through the Bible
00:23:59.89\00:24:01.95
from one end to the other.
00:24:01.96\00:24:03.14
And irrefutable,
everything that I had believed
00:24:03.47\00:24:06.75
that was an error was wrong
00:24:06.76\00:24:08.58
and he could show me
clearly from the Bible.
00:24:08.59\00:24:10.62
And even having
gone through so called
00:24:11.47\00:24:13.62
past life
experiences I know that,
00:24:13.63\00:24:15.79
that was a trick of Satan.
00:24:15.80\00:24:17.81
A dilution by
Satan. And so everything
00:24:17.82\00:24:20.92
from beginning to end,
I could see from the Bible
00:24:20.93\00:24:23.48
and so I
decided to get baptized.
00:24:24.02\00:24:27.55
Praise the Lord.
And I was baptized
00:24:27.94\00:24:30.53
and welcomed into the
00:24:30.98\00:24:31.95
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:24:31.96\00:24:33.15
And shortly after
that, I asked Annette
00:24:33.80\00:24:36.38
to marry me and she said no.
00:24:36.39\00:24:37.64
And a couple of days
later, she thought about it
00:24:39.60\00:24:41.33
and called back and
said, is that offer still open?
00:24:41.34\00:24:43.58
And I said, you
better believe it.
00:24:43.59\00:24:45.04
So, we've been
married all of this time
00:24:45.41\00:24:47.24
and a number of
years now working at 3ABN.
00:24:47.64\00:24:50.09
And tell us, you
were baptized in 1992,
00:24:50.60\00:24:54.33
yes, and when did
you and Annette marry?
00:24:54.78\00:24:56.57
I was baptized in August,
00:24:56.89\00:24:58.14
we were married
in December of 1992,
00:24:58.15\00:25:00.42
of '92. Yeah. And I know
the Lord has really blessed.
00:25:00.43\00:25:04.87
Tell us, I mean
here you come out
00:25:04.88\00:25:07.40
of this New Age
belief. And it's hard now for
00:25:07.41\00:25:10.33
anyone to know Jay
and to know of course
00:25:10.34\00:25:13.31
his wife Annette
is so well anchored,
00:25:13.32\00:25:14.94
but to see this
precious Christian family,
00:25:14.95\00:25:17.67
it's hard to
believe that you know,
00:25:17.68\00:25:19.52
we forget that we
all have a history.
00:25:19.53\00:25:21.40
And it's hard to
believe you were ever
00:25:21.78\00:25:23.42
caught up in that,
because you know a lot about
00:25:23.43\00:25:25.46
the Bible now
and you're so solid.
00:25:25.47\00:25:26.95
Tell us a little bit; we
got about two minutes left.
00:25:27.32\00:25:29.78
How you came to 3ABN?
00:25:30.17\00:25:31.50
Well, my wife and
my daughter Carrie
00:25:32.14\00:25:36.08
and a lot of the
people who watch 3ABN TV
00:25:36.09\00:25:38.97
see here on the
news breaks occasionally
00:25:38.98\00:25:40.75
and some other things.
And I, just really wanted
00:25:40.76\00:25:44.96
to work in ministry, I
was working in ministry
00:25:44.97\00:25:48.24
for a while, my
wife decided she wanted
00:25:48.25\00:25:50.33
to work in it. And so
did my daughter Carrie.
00:25:50.34\00:25:52.57
I was working out in
the of Walla Walla Valley,
00:25:52.95\00:25:55.41
I worked at KGTS
for a short while,
00:25:55.42\00:25:57.78
the Radio Station and in the
00:25:57.79\00:25:59.20
Blue Mountain Television for
a couple of years as manager.
00:25:59.21\00:26:02.39
And they wanted to
join ministry as well.
00:26:03.19\00:26:05.13
And I met the people
here, I met Danny at 3ABN.
00:26:05.48\00:26:08.71
And when they decided
to start the Radio Network,
00:26:09.14\00:26:11.31
I was one of the
people that they thought
00:26:11.32\00:26:12.86
of first to come
here and they said,
00:26:12.87\00:26:15.57
well you know, we
really like to have your
00:26:15.58\00:26:17.06
whole family come.
And we prayed about it
00:26:17.07\00:26:19.28
and just felt that this
is where God wanted us to be.
00:26:19.78\00:26:22.70
Well, we're
excited that you are here,
00:26:23.28\00:26:25.44
because you all
three of you been involved
00:26:25.45\00:26:27.75
in the ministry of 3ABN
and you do such great work.
00:26:27.76\00:26:30.64
And I know, what
would you say would be
00:26:31.01\00:26:33.85
the greatest caution
you could give someone
00:26:33.86\00:26:36.89
in the minute that we got left.
00:26:36.90\00:26:38.35
What could you
tell them to avoid,
00:26:38.69\00:26:40.68
not to get into
the New Age practiced?
00:26:40.99\00:26:42.87
Boy, in one minute,
the base, the best thing
00:26:43.66\00:26:48.10
that I could say is for the,
00:26:48.11\00:26:50.21
anybody that has
any curiosity about
00:26:50.69\00:26:53.13
God to read the
Bible. Amen. Read the Bible
00:26:53.14\00:26:56.36
and study it. And
when you're ready,
00:26:56.37\00:26:58.00
ask the Holy
Spirit to guide you.
00:26:58.01\00:26:59.84
Always pray before you start.
00:26:59.85\00:27:01.60
And question everything,
because when you question
00:27:02.69\00:27:05.42
everything you'll
learn a lot as well.
00:27:05.43\00:27:07.52
There is so many in New Age,
00:27:08.12\00:27:09.91
as well as so many different
00:27:09.92\00:27:11.13
Christian religions sound good,
00:27:11.14\00:27:13.79
they sound loving. But
they're in error. Amen.
00:27:13.80\00:27:16.90
So just pray and study.
00:27:16.91\00:27:18.02
So before you take anything
00:27:18.38\00:27:20.57
and for that someone
else is trying to teach you,
00:27:20.58\00:27:22.65
check it out against the Bible.
00:27:22.66\00:27:23.98
He says in Psalm 119:105,
00:27:23.99\00:27:26.11
your word is a lamp to my
feet and a light to my path.
00:27:26.45\00:27:29.82
Jay, thank you so
much for being here.
00:27:30.16\00:27:32.90
You're welcome.
And I am so glad,
00:27:32.91\00:27:33.88
I know you've authored a book,
00:27:34.34\00:27:35.89
and we want you to come back
00:27:35.90\00:27:36.90
and talk to us about
your book that has to do
00:27:36.91\00:27:40.10
with the New Age. Okay.
00:27:40.11\00:27:41.33
And now for
those of who at home,
00:27:41.34\00:27:42.67
thank you for being
with us and we ask that
00:27:42.68\00:27:45.43
you will tune
in again next time.
00:27:45.44\00:27:47.49
And we want to thank
you for your continued
00:27:47.83\00:27:51.37
prayerful
support of 3ABN. Bye-Bye.
00:27:51.68\00:27:54.90