Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Herb Douglass
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000218
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome again
00:32 to Issues and Answers. We got an interesting 00:34 program for you today and I wanted to begin 00:36 by sharing this scripture with you. 00:39 Perhaps you're familiar with the story of Job 00:41 and all of the suffering that he went through. 00:44 Well you know Job's friends were pretty sure 00:46 that Job was to be blame and that God 00:49 was punishing him. Job even thought that God 00:51 was punishing him and he wasn't really sure 00:55 what was going on. And so in Job 38 00:58 the Lord shows up and this is what God says. 01:02 Who is this who darkens council by words without knowledge? 01:09 Now prepare yourself like a man I will question you 01:12 and you shall answer me. Why is God blamed for suffering 01:17 and sickness and disasters, that's what 01:20 we're gonna be looking at today. 01:22 And our special guests back with us for a third time is 01:25 Dr. Herb Douglas. And Dr. Douglas, 01:28 thank you so much. My pleasure dear. 01:30 It's good to have you here. We are gonna be talking about 01:34 something that is a little bit philosophical 01:36 but we're gonna be drawing on the Bible today. 01:39 The Lord is blamed often, we hear even Christians 01:42 blaming Him for sickness and calamities 01:44 and accidents and disasters, 01:46 why, why do we choose to be this? 01:49 You know Shelley, it's amazing, those who don't pray 01:51 to the God, blame Him for all the badness 01:54 that happens in this world, so it is amazing. 01:58 You'd think that they wouldn't have any interest 02:01 in whose causing it, and that's the way it goes. 02:04 And it almost seems to me that they're trying 02:07 to excuse themselves for not believing in God 02:09 when they blame Him for all the misfortune you know. 02:12 You're probably thinking more along the line 02:15 of the insurance companies when they call it acts of God. 02:20 That's true, but when you ask the question, 02:22 where was God on 9/11? I hear that frequently. 02:28 But, Dr. Douglas you're a professor, 02:31 or were a professor of theology, 02:32 that is your doctoral degree in theology. 02:35 Haven't you run into? I have run into praying people, 02:38 it's not all just those who don't pray, 02:39 but I've run into some praying people, 02:41 people who are Christians, who are saying, 02:44 where was God on 9/11? Haven't you run 02:47 into people like that? No question about it, 02:49 and many of them, many well known 02:52 T.V. preachers say that was God's way of telling America 02:58 that we got to shape up that we've rejected Him 03:01 and insulted Him and that was his way. 03:04 That was awful to make God into a cosmic executioner. 03:10 So I take it that you don't hold that view at all. 03:14 Oliver Jacques, you may not know him, 03:17 a wonderful man, and his father was a physician 03:21 during the depression. And a man came to him 03:26 who just learned that his wife had 03:28 another child on the way, he had 11 children. 03:33 And he says, how can God do this to me? 03:37 Well God gets blamed for a lot of things. Yes. 03:40 And we just have to recognize that 03:43 an insurance company that can write 03:44 on the policy an act of God. Many people believe it 03:49 is an act of God, that somehow God 03:53 is in control of everything that happens in this world. 03:56 They have no concept of an evil power, 04:00 no concept of a personal devil 04:03 that somehow is messing things up in someway. 04:06 No concept of how God is trying to work out 04:11 a program in such a way that evil exists 04:14 no more in this world. But somehow, God has to work 04:18 within His own parameters. 04:20 The biggest gift God ever gave to this creation is freedom. 04:24 Choice. Even before love, because you can't have love 04:31 without freedom. That's true. 04:33 Lot of people think they could get away with it, 04:35 you know, love with love and but until a loving person 04:39 is giving freedom to his partner, 04:42 you don't have love. Freedom is the basic core 04:46 word in this universe. Satan used freedom 04:52 and it's kind of changed into a new definition of liberty. 04:56 In another words, Don't Fence Me In as the song says, 05:00 we've got to develop and do it my way, 05:02 as Sinatra used to say. In other word we have 05:07 that freedom to just let our real self develop 05:12 into some kind of a potential. We don't want to be cramped 05:16 by these authoritarian rules. Now God is saying look, 05:22 you could go your way if you want, but there are some 05:25 unintended consequences along the way. 05:27 And we have been suffering those consequences 05:30 ever since the Garden of Eden. Amen. 05:32 Okay. Now, let me take you back just a step, 05:35 because you said that some people believe 05:38 that God is in control of everything 05:40 and they don't recognize this other evil power. 05:44 The Bible does teach God is sovereign, so why would, 05:50 the Bible teach us that God is love? 05:52 Why would an all powerful, all loving sovereign 05:58 God allow these things to happen? 06:04 Shelley, we have a word for this in theology, 06:06 we call it the Odyssey. It simply means 06:08 the justice of God, how can God be just? 06:12 It's been one of those great theological subjects, 06:16 why suffering? And there had been three ways 06:20 that theological figures have worked this out. 06:25 One is, God is sovereign as you said. 06:28 But He's so sovereign that He predestines 06:31 every thing that happens in this world, 06:33 the good and the bad, even suffering. 06:35 Even the evil, and even those who are not saved 06:41 because they haven't predestined to be saved, 06:44 they gonna be lost but they're predestined 06:46 to live forever in eternal hell. So that... that is Calvinism, 06:51 that's Calvinism, and that's. And some are Lutheran 06:54 and Presbyterians today. And then the second, 06:57 response to them, people say this is not the Bible, 07:01 we call it they're minion position. 07:03 And they believe that God is sovereign, 07:05 but He's given to every created being, 07:08 angels and men. The responsibility to choose 07:12 for themselves good or evil. And the good and the bad 07:16 that happens to even good people, that's a pity. 07:22 But God is going to workout some good purpose out 07:25 of this and I guess you can say, Grid and Barrett. 07:31 But that's no constellation, when people tell me, 07:35 in the hospital, as I'm trying to comfort somebody. 07:38 And some family member says, well pastor 07:43 is the will of the God. I argued just a little bit 07:47 under my breathe, it is never the will of the God 07:49 that that person to suffer. That is somebody's else 07:53 will not God. And so there's a third way 07:57 of looking at these alternatives, 08:01 who also believe in a sovereign God. 08:04 But they believe that the sovereign God is part 08:10 of the Great Controversy between spiritual forces. 08:13 Beginning in heaven, Revelation 12, 08:17 The evil force is doing their best to wear our down. 08:22 And God is not going to overrule what evils is doing through 08:27 the unintended consequences that men and women 08:30 have done to themselves through the years. 08:33 DNA does the job in all of us, and we just have to take 08:38 what comes in our lineage. It's not always pleasant, 08:44 but God is working out the controversy to show 08:46 that who is right? Who can run this universe best? 08:49 God's principles or Satan's principles, 08:51 and that's where sufferings comes in, 08:53 we're suffering the consequences 08:55 of evil through the years. But God is going to give us 08:57 strength to meet any suffering, any trial, any overwhelming 09:04 problem that we have to face. Okay, now which one 09:07 for our viewer's sake which of the three 09:09 positions do you hold? I represent a position 09:14 that's trying to tell the truth about God, 09:17 he's a marvelously loving God's who gives 09:19 freedom to everybody. He gave it to Adam and Eve, 09:21 and we're suffering the consequences 09:23 of saying no to His way of life. 09:27 He gave freedom to Lucifer. He gave freedom to Lucifer. 09:31 Who became Satan. And he gave freedom to Satan 09:35 to do a job on Job, but He's gonna stand by Job. 09:39 And He's gonna give that strength to Job, 09:41 that Job eventually discovered, was the only way 09:46 he could understand God. God is not the author of sin, 09:50 suffering or death, Satan is. Okay, but you know coming back 09:54 and...and maybe we have to be a little philosophical 09:56 here because, I believe as you believe, 10:00 that sin and suffering is the result of pride 10:05 and rebellion of an angel, that was a covenant angel. 10:10 Lucifer who is now referred to as Satan or adversary. 10:15 There are people who ask when God saw that Satan rebelled 10:21 and that He was to bring all of the sin 10:24 and suffering into the world. Why didn't this loving God 10:27 just zap him out and get rid of him, 10:31 right then and there? Oh, don't we all wish 10:35 that he had done that in sometime in our life. 10:37 But there would have been somebody else 10:39 who would say, wow, you disagree with God, 10:43 and look what happens to you, maybe Satan is right, 10:45 maybe you don't disagree with God. 10:47 Satan had a better plan, at least as far as we heard, 10:52 he certainly made it possible that life could be better 10:54 with a little extra give on the part of the God. 10:58 There would always be a question whether God 11:00 was as fair, was as just, was just as kind as God says 11:07 he wants to be. And they didn't have time 11:10 to see it workout, and God says, I will work 11:12 it out in some laboratory, I will prove to the Universe, 11:16 I'll make the world where there be procreation, 11:20 where people will see the effects of the father 11:23 and son, mother and daughter, operation. 11:25 And how all that could show how I feel about my universe, 11:30 my family. Well that was a great risk 11:33 on the part of the God, that was part of His way 11:35 of taking time to show that Satan with all of his charm, 11:41 with all of his gracious plans, would end up with confusion 11:45 and suffering and death. You know, it's hard when we see 11:50 people suffering, it's hard to say, 11:51 I'm glad God chose it this way. But I am glad that He did, 11:55 because had He annihilated Satan immediately then what 12:00 would have happened is all the rest of the angels 12:02 would have been coerced to love and obey Him. 12:07 And you can't, you can't even use the word love 12:09 that they would have been coerced to obey, 12:11 because they wouldn't want to end up like Satan. 12:15 And when we think about it now, 12:18 I...I mean the greatest thing we have 12:20 is the gift of the choice, right? Exactly. 12:23 And we cannot love God without choice, so that's what 12:26 the Lord is doing here is letting us know that, 12:30 that we still have that freedom of choice. 12:38 No husband or wife can really, really love each other 12:42 unless they had the choice not to do it. 12:45 That's right. And as soon 12:46 as the choice is gone, the love is gone, 12:49 the glue is gone, but they still have the choice 12:52 that is no more love. Love is that marvelous chemistry 12:57 where you choose to listen to and even obey a person, 13:03 because you have that immense trust in 13:08 what you know that person to be, that's how God wants us 13:11 to relate to Him that we have an immense trust in Him. 13:14 Because everything He says works out that way, 13:19 and given enough time we're gonna see it more clearly. 13:22 You know one of these days is going to be 13:24 a marvelous course, Revelation 15:3. 13:28 Finally the Universe is going to say just and true 13:32 our thy ways oh God. But see, from the very beginning 13:37 of Satan's rebellion that's what He's being trying 13:39 to prove is that God is not just. 13:41 So that when He got cast out of heaven, 13:43 don't you think that was kind of at the top of His list 13:46 that do you believe that part of the reason 13:49 that there is so much sin and suffering 13:51 because Satan is trying to give God a bad name? 13:54 Well, He's done a good job, most of the Heathen, 13:58 all the Heathen religions look upon God 14:00 as somebody to be feared. Yeah. 14:02 And they think of someway they have to appease Him, 14:04 to make Him happy, throw their children 14:06 into the fire to make their God happy. 14:09 But many Christians do the same thing, 14:12 maybe in different ways of course. 14:14 But they have to go to this particular city, 14:16 or climb up these particular stony steps, 14:19 somehow to get God's attention that, 14:21 we're alright Lord, we're right with you, 14:25 without giving Him of course the kind of response 14:28 He wants of life, trust and faith. 14:30 But it was a great risk on the part of God 14:35 to put this honor on laboratory basis. 14:38 Instead of saying this is the way it is 14:40 and write it on the clouds, hammer that out with thunder. 14:45 He said no I won't let you all see how it works out, 14:48 principles. Adam and Eve be my first risk 14:53 and see how they work it out 14:55 and it didn't last too long did it? 14:56 So we then have a line of people that God said, 15:01 they will be my people for one purpose, 15:04 to tell the world, the truth about God. 15:08 They kind of messed it up, they talked about a God. 15:11 And we're talking about the Hebrew's Israelites, 15:14 that God choose. They were the only ones on earth 15:16 who had a true picture of God, but they kind of messed it up. 15:20 Jesus came, the third risk. He didn't come 15:24 as a dazzling prince. He didn't come as 15:27 a reverse astronaut, you know, with all those 15:29 heavenly pack on Him. So He would breathe anything 15:31 in this world polluted environment. 15:34 He came as a man, as every little boy is born. 15:39 And he had to fight the battles as every little boy 15:42 has had to fight as a teenager, as a growing man. 15:45 There is nothing that Jesus didn't have to fight. 15:47 Hebrew's 2, Hebrew's 4 so kind of and so on. 15:51 That was quite a risk because He could have, 15:54 as a man He could have failed and it would have 15:57 been eternal loss for all of us. That was a great risk. 16:01 But when God would, when Jesus went back to heaven, 16:03 ask God of course. It wasn't the end of anything. 16:10 He died on the Cross to begin His work as High Priest. 16:14 Amen. As the book of Hebrew, 16:16 that's the main point of the book of Hebrew, 16:19 that He is there today to be our High Priest, 16:22 to be unto us everything I need to be, 16:24 especially in times of suffering. 16:27 Especially in times of all kinds of emotional trial. 16:31 God knows how to talk to me and talk to you 16:34 because He's been here. Amen. 16:38 He's gone through the same situations 16:39 that you and I go through. And tempted in every way 16:44 and yet without sin. He wasn't exempt. 16:47 He didn't suffer like vicariously. Right. 16:50 He suffered as a man but suffered...with Satan 16:53 really throwing it at Him. Face to face with Satan 16:57 like you and I have not yet done. 16:59 But he showed us how to do it, how to live, 17:01 and how to die? And when Jesus was here, 17:07 He did a lot to dispel these errors about God 17:12 and the misunderstandings of that we had about God. 17:16 He told Pilate, "I came to bear witness to the truth." Amen. 17:22 And everything about Him, He was on the side of healing. 17:25 You know, the word that we often translate as Savior, 17:29 is the same Greek word for healer. 17:31 And He is a grand healer of everything 17:34 that Satan has messed up. All that sin has done 17:37 in my life and yours, he's going to restore, 17:40 he's going to undo. That's His job. 17:43 On this earth, he's gonna do part of it. 17:47 You can recover, from the life of doing everything 17:51 you want to do and your body can recover 17:53 if you let the Holy Spirit help you become a brighter person. 17:56 Amen. But one of these days, 17:58 he's going to restore. He is a grand restorer, 18:00 He is not the destroyer. Amen. 18:02 And you know, for me, I don't know, if you know 18:06 my background but I grew up in another denomination 18:08 where I believed in eternal hellfire that I was going 18:12 to be punished forever and ever and ever. 18:14 And so I saw God as one who was, you know, 18:18 just ready to zap me. Yes. And it was, 18:20 when I came to Hebrews 1:3, that say that Jesus 18:23 is the exact expression of the Father. 18:26 He is the very representation of His character. 18:29 And you, I don't know why, I don't know how many 18:31 times I probably read the New Testament, 18:33 two hundred times before I... That scripture 18:35 just jumped out at me Herb, and I thought, 18:38 you know, Jesus did say, you've seen me 18:40 may you have seen the Father. And all of a sudden, 18:42 I realized that the Father God. 18:45 He had to get close to His own disciples. 18:46 Yeah, and the Father is just exactly 18:50 as loving and patient and kind and considerate, 18:54 compassionate as Jesus. So, if we want to know 18:59 who the Father is, we just need to look 19:02 to Jesus and He was the exact representation of His character. 19:07 Now when we ask people who do you want 19:09 to meet first on the other side when you are resurrected, 19:14 most people say, well, I want to see Jesus. 19:19 Jesus would feel just a little bit like a failure 19:23 because His job was to show us the Father. 19:25 The Father is the pole point. The Father is the one 19:29 who's been maligned, misrepresented, lied about, 19:32 had a bad press and Jesus was trying to say, 19:37 the Father is not like you think he is. 19:40 And that's why he gives us Luke 15 19:41 with those marvelous parables. 19:44 God is the one looking for that lost sheep and looking 19:48 for that coin that seems so important and God is the kind 19:52 of like a Father, just waiting for His kids 19:55 to come back home. It's beautiful. 19:58 It's the Father that needs to be properly vindicated 20:03 and Jesus is helping us to vindicate His Father. Amen. 20:08 You know, I'm thinking as you're speaking 20:11 of a scripture Nahum 1:9 that says, The Lord says 20:15 that He will not let sin rise again so... 20:19 Okay, follow that through now. How does that happen? 20:23 It has to be destroyed. But it has to be done 20:27 in a way that's not coercive. Absolutely. 20:30 Everybody gets the results of their own choices. 20:35 When the 7 last plagues fall, that's not God having 20:41 the last word. That's not God saying, 20:43 look you guys have just messed up this world 20:48 and you made me into a fiend. Well, I'll show you now 20:54 who is powerful. No, no, I'm telling no, no. 20:58 Right now, Revelation 7, the reason why Jesus 21:03 has not returned, as He could returned years ago 21:10 is because God hasn't found enough people He could seal, 21:13 so that He through them, He can give a real good 21:16 witness of the truths to the world. 21:19 He is waiting for people that catch on as to why the gospel 21:24 of this kingdom will be preached in all of the world 21:27 through witnesses to all...Yes. You have to be a witness. 21:31 Anybody can talk the gospel. Somebody, you have to witness 21:36 to what He is talking about. In Second Corinthians 3:3 21:39 He says that we are a letter written on the heart 21:42 from Christ. So It's our actions 21:44 that matter more than our words. 21:47 The witness is to someone see.. Words are cheap. 21:50 Absolutely. But, when we talk about 21:56 especially the ceiling work. What is the ceiling work? 22:01 When God finishes up His whole thing. 22:04 It's His signatures right on your forehead. 22:06 14:1 and 22:3. Well, when you pick up anything, 22:15 shall we say a toaster or mixture or whatever you use 22:20 in the kitchen. You look at to the bottom 22:22 and you will see, well, not always a little yellow label 22:25 because now they're imprinted in the frame work of, 22:31 I am trying to say it's the underwriters laboratory 22:36 seal of approval. Yes. And in the plastic it's there. 22:41 Why? Because you look at that label, the seal says 22:46 you can trust it. You can use it. 22:48 It's not gonna burn up. You go for some tennis rackets 22:53 and you don't pick up any old tennis racket. 22:56 You pick up Venus William's. Or a Tiger Wood golf club. 23:00 Why do you think they're selling Tiger Wood golf clubs? 23:02 Because he has a signature on them. 23:05 You can trust it, you can count on that person 23:08 because look what he does with a golf club like this. 23:13 God says, you can trust these people. 23:15 When I seal these people they are going to be 23:17 the kind of people you can trust, 23:19 you can lean on them, they're saying what's right 23:21 about me and you won't have to ever wonder 23:24 again what's right about the universe? 23:28 And when God has people who are so sealed 23:32 that they're saying the truth about him. 23:36 They will never again say no to him under any circumstance. 23:40 They follow Jesus as Bible says wheresoever he goeth? 23:44 I want to walk that way now. 23:47 God will put His stamp of approval upon you. 23:49 Remember that ad, the Hanes clothing ad 23:54 and this lady is watching the conveyor belt, 23:58 the under clothing goes along, all packaged up. 24:00 And she's like a sergeant major watching all this. 24:06 The name goes on when the quality goes in, 24:12 Hanes.... The name goes on you when the quality goes in. 24:18 That's God's way of ending up the Universe 24:20 at the end of time. He'll let people say 24:22 what is right about Him. And a lot of people 24:26 were suffering today. I know through experience 24:30 that when I tell them this little story where God 24:32 fits into this whole thing. It makes the difference. 24:36 They're not just wondering why either in the gravel, 24:40 pushed down and God is saying, it's alright, 24:43 I'm using you for a greater purpose. 24:46 Ah, I don't need to be used for a greater purpose anymore 24:50 Lord I heard. But would you agree with me, 24:53 Herb, that, you know Romans 8:28 says, 24:59 that those who love the Lord have whatever, 25:03 my mind went blank for a second. 25:05 It says, all things work together 25:06 for good for those who love the Lord, 25:08 and are called according to His purpose. 25:10 And so what I teach though, I mean you can't tell 25:13 a mother who has just lost her husband and her child 25:16 in a car wreck all things work together for good. 25:20 You know, you'd say how can God use this for my good? 25:24 I don't use the text that time because of 25:26 what you're trying to say now. But you know, here is the.. 25:29 you can't separate that text from Romans 8:29. 25:32 It says that those that he foreknew he called 25:36 and he predestined us to be confirmed according 25:39 to the image of Jesus. So even though 25:42 there is this horrible battle, this great controversy 25:46 going on between good and evil. And the devil 25:49 is the one who is responsible for death and sickness 25:53 and calamities or accidents. Amen. 25:54 But still when it happens, God can still is the lifter 26:00 of your head, the comforter, He will still take the worse 26:05 to those circumstances and help confirm you 26:08 to the image of Jesus. Absolutely. 26:10 Because all are gonna suffer in this lifetime. 26:13 I have held many hands of people who are dying 26:18 and people die in different ways. Yeah. 26:21 And if I get them quick enough to understand 26:23 what we're talking about today it's a very peaceful death. 26:29 Because they know on the other side when God wakens them, 26:32 it will be one wonderful God 26:34 they're going to live with forever. Amen. 26:36 And they won't be confused as to why this happens 26:40 or why that happens? They will understand 26:42 that evil does prevail up to a point. 26:45 John the Baptist didn't enjoy having someone 26:49 take off his head. Yeah. And who is closer 26:51 to Jesus than John the Baptist. Yes. 26:53 Who is closer to, shall we say the Father? 26:57 But Jesus Christ, when he suffered in Gethsemane. 27:01 Three times Lord, Father, Father, 27:04 if there's some way we can do this, 27:07 and I could complete a much better life 27:08 if I lived a little longer. Not my will but thine be done. 27:12 Amen. Herb, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure 27:15 to have you here and God bless you for the work 27:18 that you are doing. 27:19 For those of you who are at home, 27:21 remember this, Romans 5:8 says that God manifested His love. 27:26 He demonstrated His love for us in this way, 27:29 that while we were still sinners. 27:31 He sent Jesus Christ to save us. And I'll tell you, 27:35 if Jesus will die for us while we are still sinners. 27:38 How much more will He do for us now? 27:41 God loves you so much and He is not the one who is causing 27:45 the calamities that are in your life, 27:47 but you can look to Him for salvation. 27:50 You can look to Him and know that 27:53 your God will provide all that you need. |
Revised 2014-12-17