Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jerry Connell
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000210
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome to Issues and Answers.
00:33 We have a very exciting topic to talk about today 00:36 particularly for those of you who are married 00:39 or are thinking about getting married. 00:40 We will be talking about keys to building relational intimacy. 00:47 We want our marriages to be like God ordained them to be 00:53 according to His divine purpose. 00:56 Before we begin, I want to share a Scripture with you. 00:59 I though this is kind of appropriate. 01:03 It comes from Songs of Solomon 8:6,7. 01:07 The Bible says: "Set me like a seal upon your heart, 01:11 like a seal upon your arm, 01:13 for love is as strong as death. 01:15 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it. " 01:20 Isn't that the kind of relationship that you would like 01:23 to be experiencing with your spouse? 01:25 You can and God has the answers. 01:27 So today I'm very pleased 01:29 to introduce to you pastor Jerry Connell. 01:32 Jerry is a pastoral psychotherapist, he is also 01:35 a marriage and family therapist. 01:38 Jerry, you are from Lincoln, Nebraska. 01:40 That's where I live for 15 years now. 01:42 That's where you are living. 01:44 Thank you so much for coming and joining us. 01:46 It is very interesting to me that this is your topic 01:50 because we get so many questions, and I particularly 01:53 in going out and doing ministry, in women's retreats and revivals 01:57 A lot of people approach us about this. 02:00 What makes you an expert in this area? 02:03 I don't know that I would be an expert. 02:06 I've been married for 33 years, I've taken a lot of classes 02:11 in marriage and family issues, worked really hard to practice 02:15 what I preach. 02:16 But just again beside the classes, a couple of key things: 02:22 The relationship I had growing up with the person raised me 02:28 which happened to be my grandmother. 02:30 She was a mother person in my life, an awesome person. 02:37 Mother-son relationships influence to a 02:39 large extend a guy's 02:41 relationship, to understand relationships with females. 02:45 Another key was, when I got over being a workaholic pastor and 02:50 I could settle down and figure out what was driving God. 02:55 I could stop being a workaholic. That was many years ago. 02:59 I could actually spend time in my marriage. 03:02 As something that I suffered from too is I have that tendency 03:06 when you are in ministry is so easy to say: 03:09 "I'm doing it for the Lord, so 03:11 It must be right", but I understand what you are saying. 03:14 All of this training that you took is that the answer or did 03:17 your wife have an influence in making you a good husband? 03:22 I've got an awesome wife and as a wise person once said, 03:25 good husbands are not born, but created by wives who are 03:30 very patient and kind. Good wives are not born either. 03:35 Training and the books I've read, what I see coming in 03:41 my office, and the stories 03:43 I've heard when I end up working with. 03:47 Part of my training is in marital intimacy therapy 03:49 That really heighten my awareness also. 03:52 Have you noticed, just in general, it seems like people 03:56 are having more problems with intimacy in our days. 04:00 We talk so much about it, but still people have more 04:02 problems with their intimacy, 04:04 in the relationship with the Lord and with one another. 04:07 What do you thing drives that? 04:09 Definitely, it takes time. 04:11 We are such a highly driven society, we are over stimulated 04:14 by technology and so many things to do and places to go. 04:18 The relationships take time. 04:20 You usually put your emphasis where 04:23 your values and priorities are. 04:26 I'll get into this a little more as we get along in the program 04:31 today and share a lot of the insights that I think 04:35 the viewing audience will find incredible insightful. 04:39 Lets talk about some of the keys. 04:41 We cannot talk about all of the keys because they are so many. 04:46 There are so many good authors. 04:48 I don't want to defer some of the experts 04:51 that I have read their works 04:52 as well as some of their researches. 04:55 I don't believe in recreating the wheel. 04:58 But in the same time, when you put thousands and thousands 05:02 of hours of counseling practice over the years, you pick up 05:06 a lot of information as well. 05:07 That drives you to do more research and try to understand 05:10 so you can help. 05:12 Let me ask you a question to begin this. 05:14 Do you think that people have lost side of what Gods original 05:19 plan for marriage was? 05:21 I think that it is really key. 05:24 If we would were to go back to the beginning, 05:28 I've got such a high view of inspiration. 05:31 I actually really believe that the Bible is Gods word. 05:33 If God would be the God He is, He would give the instructions 05:42 Relationships are the most important thing in our lives. 05:45 If we will do it right, obviously God would want to 05:48 give us some information to help us to do it right. 05:54 If you look to Gods purpose for marriage in Gen. 2:24, 05:59 it says its not good that men, 06:02 I like to make it a little more generic, people... 06:06 And that word is probably generic. 06:09 It is not good that people should be alone. 06:12 It is said that for that reason should a man leave 06:15 his father and mother and be united to his wife, 06:18 so the two of them should become one. 06:19 Gods original purpose for 06:21 marriage is that the two became one. 06:23 We know that it is not just physical or sexual oneness, 06:27 not just the wedding ceremonies. 06:31 Someone once said a wedding doesn't make a marriage. 06:33 We give you legal permission to make a marriage. 06:35 It is not what you do before that, but what you do 06:38 after that really sets it up. 06:41 I could spend a lot of time on that one, but that would be 06:44 another program. 06:45 Gods original intention was a very deep sense of closeness. 06:51 That's what He wanted. That was Gods original plan. 06:55 He didn't create us to be so frenetic the way to not have 06:59 time to spend time with each 07:00 other or bond with each other. 07:03 The objective for marriage in Gods mind is 07:09 to experience intimacy instead of loneliness. 07:15 That's an interesting thing 07:20 I've read in manuals in university and other books. 07:25 You may come to this conclusion too Shelley. 07:29 I've read lots of theology 07:32 for lots of years in theology in seminary: books 07:37 in psychology, in philosophy, and many other books in all 07:41 kind of areas. 07:43 I've dealt with human beings 07:44 thousands and thousands of hours of clinical work. 07:50 I've come to this conclusion that the deepest needs in human 07:58 experience, Shelley I'm talking about the 08:00 deepest need, in the human experience,. 08:02 is to deal with the existential issues of loneliness 08:07 Intimacy. 08:11 In some ways, I can see just right now 08:13 you just introducing it this way, the marriage is kind of a 08:17 illustration of what our 08:22 relationship with the Lord should be like. 08:25 The church is Christ's bride. 08:27 This idea of experiencing intimacy in relationship, 08:34 this hall in our hearts that needs to be filled with love, 08:37 what we are looking for it, if we come to someone and learn how 08:45 to be one and be purpose thought in action with him, 08:48 That actually helps prepare us to have a more intimate 08:50 relationship with our Lord or vice versa. 08:52 I've been referred to experts and Id like to quote one of 08:59 the authors, Id like to use the research of Dr. David Ferguson. 09:02 David Turison or Chris Ahol Eternman who wrote a book of 09:06 how to... 09:09 Dr. Furgason, if I remember well, 09:11 has 2 doctorates from Oxford. 09:14 This is a person who is well trained, well read, 09:18 A Christian family specialist. 09:21 He articulates the best I've seen and I read a lot of books 09:26 by several Christian authors. 09:28 Let me explain it this way: 09:30 If you look at marriage in the beginning and understand 09:39 the concept there, you've got it 09:43 What we see in the culture now is definitely isn't it. 09:46 So if you go b back to the origins... 09:48 Lets look at man and marriage in the beginning. 09:55 What did Adam have? 09:57 He was in the garden, he had a nice home, he had good food, 10:06 The best of food, he had the food that God provided, 10:09 he had a good job. 10:12 He was C.E.O. of the garden; God placed him over 10:15 everything; he really was C.E.O. of the garden. 10:19 But what about spiritual mentor. Who did he have? 10:23 The Lord Himself. 10:25 It doesn't get any better than that. No. 10:27 When you have a nice home, good food, good job, and a 10:32 spiritual mentor other then God Himself, you would think 10:37 you've got everything. 10:38 And God said there is something missing. 10:44 I didn't say that, God said it. 10:47 That's an interesting concept. 10:50 This is a key to marital intimacy, key number one. 10:57 There is something in the human heart that even God can't feel 11:05 in Himself. 11:06 Because we use our senses, we need to touch and feel. 11:11 God said it is not good. 11:13 Everything else was good, but He said loneliness wasn't. 11:18 So you have to ask yourself another question: 11:21 What is marriage in its original form? 11:24 Marriage, God said it wasn't good that man should be alone. 11:31 So marriage primarily wasn't for 11:35 procreation, although that's an important 11:39 aspect of the marriage, if you choose to have children. 11:42 It's not for recreational sex, although 11:45 that's both Old and New Testament 11:47 just good fun sex between husband and wife 11:50 That's not the primary purpose of the marriage. 11:52 It was to deal with 11:54 the existential issues of loneliness. 11:58 Now, later in the Old Testament, in Deuteronomy, 12:02 it talks about marriage being a covenant. 12:05 If you look to the biblical definition, 12:08 at least as I have come to understand it, 12:11 that marriage in its original form was a covenant 12:15 of companionship to deal with loneliness. 12:18 That's beautiful, but now let me ask you, because we didn't 12:22 really address this. 12:23 Talking about intimacy, can you explain, because so 12:26 many people nowadays seem to think that 12:29 if you use the word intimacy, that you're 12:31 talking about a physical relationship. 12:34 We're talking about something far 12:37 beyond just a physical relationship. 12:41 Would you like to give us a definition of what you mean 12:42 by intimacy? 12:44 We'll cover some of those again, but it is that deep, deep 12:50 closeness it's not just physical. 12:53 Anybody who has been married for any length of time at all 12:55 even they enjoy the physical intimacy. 12:58 It doesn't meet the deepest levels of the human experience. 13:02 The deepest level of the human experience is far beyond that. 13:07 Physical intimacy can actually do. 13:11 Sometimes, people try and 13:12 meet that need through physical intimacy. 13:15 That can take people into wrong directions. 13:17 So, if we are looking at God's original intent to have a 13:24 covenant of companionship, to do away with loneliness 13:29 what are some of the things that we do to sabotage 13:34 this intimacy? 13:36 There are a lot of things that the culture promotes. 13:41 Part of it again is when we get our sense of self and our values 13:47 through our work, through our busyness, 13:53 through our over involvement, through materialism. 13:57 There is nothing wrong in having some nice things as long as 13:59 they don't have you. 14:00 I want to answer to all of these questions, but I have to come 14:05 at it from a little different angle. 14:08 I want to lay down another key. "Ok" 14:11 When you start talking about intimacy, people go "ok" that's 14:21 for women, especially guys, that's for women. 14:24 We don't need that. 14:27 Wait a minute, if you say that, if I say I'm hungry 14:34 or I'm tired, or I'm thirsty I've got physical needs: 14:40 Right! You wouldn't look at me and say 14:42 Jerry you are really twisted aren't you. 14:45 You know, Why! Because to be hungry, 14:48 thirsty and tired are normal. 14:50 God said it is not good that man should be alone. 14:55 Relation intimacy needs are normal. 14:59 It is a part of what human being is. 15:02 Do you think that maybe one of the reasons that 15:05 God couldn't feel everything at Adams need is because Adam 15:10 was looking for someone who understood him as a human being 15:14 It seems like so many people want to be understood... 15:18 That is true, God understood Adam completely, 15:26 but it wasn't the same. 15:27 So people can be really spiritual and have a good 15:30 relationship with God, and still be be deeply lonely. 15:33 So another key: That is Adam did not have 15:43 the ability to meet his own need. 15:47 Now think about that for a minute. 15:50 With his job, with his house, with his food, 15:55 even with his prayer life, 15:58 his relationship with God. 16:00 He did not have the ability to meet 16:02 that other need: somebody else coming into his life, 16:06 to do it, to walk with him. 16:11 Let me go to another key then. 16:25 There is something I want to share with you today. 16:29 When I tell this to you, Shelley, I want to make you 16:33 a promise: once I tell you this and once the viewing audience 16:39 hears this, they will never forget this. 16:42 I want them to know. You will never forget this. 16:46 Once I tell you this, you are going think about this and go 16:50 huh, that is interesting. 16:52 And then you will think, yea that is 16:54 interesting, and then you are going 16:56 think about this some more and some more. 17:01 I've had people talked up to me after I've shared this with them 17:04 just in the foyer of the church the College view Church 17:05 in the college where I worked where I'm on Staff. 17:07 You know, Jerry, two years ago I was talking to you in the foyer 17:12 and you said, and he quoted me back, 17:14 and he said "man" that has changed me. 17:17 Spill it out! 17:20 I want to give you a little preamble first though. 17:24 I like you, believe in the second coming of Jesus. 17:28 I do! 17:32 I hope Jesus comes today. 17:34 If He doesn't come today, he will come tomorrow. 17:36 He will not come tomorrow, He will come next week. 17:38 If He comes today, I believe I'm ready. 17:41 Praise the Lord! 17:43 In fact, just so our audience knows how kosher I am 17:48 theologically, as a Adventist pastor. 17:50 I'm such a strong primarlinalist. 17:52 that I don't even eat post cereals. 17:54 But that's not what your going to remember. 17:59 Well you might remember that too, but. 18:00 Here is what I want to tell you that I know you will remember 18:07 from now until Jesus does come, 18:08 because I know what it's going to 18:10 do to you, once I tell you this. 18:11 After this big build up, I'm really expect something great. 18:17 This answers another question you asked me: do I live this. 18:23 Years ago, I came to this conclusion, even thou I believe 18:29 in the second coming of Jesus. 18:32 Life as we know it now, 18:36 this life, this thing we call life, I only get one shot at it. 18:41 And you do too. That's it. 18:43 This can lead at eternity and I believe in eternity, 18:48 but life as we know it now, we only get one shot at it. 18:52 Here is the punch line. 18:54 What I came to the conclusion years ago is that this is Cathy, 19:01 my wife, lifetime I'm using up. 19:03 Wow! 19:06 The only chance she ever gets at it. 19:07 Wow! That is, That is very deep! 19:12 I want it to be good for her. 19:13 And it is my lifetime she's using up. 19:18 That is incredible! 19:20 And she wants it to be good for me. 19:23 That's incredible! 19:26 So when you have that as a foundation and understand that, 19:30 you want to build intimacy, because this is your journey, 19:34 this is your life. 19:35 You know I always think about 19:41 JD and I really do many good things for one another. 19:47 He is very sensitive to my needs and I to his. 19:51 I always try to make his life better. 19:55 But I've never stopped to think that I'm using up his life. 20:00 That is a very provocative thought. 20:04 Not one, that I'm sure it is registering on a certain level 20:10 right now, probably sink and deeper as we think about that. 20:12 What I find it does when people begin understand 20:15 that it affects their behavior. 20:16 Surely! 20:18 That's excellent! 20:20 If people come to their relationship without 20:24 understanding, what kind of things are 20:26 you going to shift. 20:29 Let me just add a little side bar, because I'm a marriage 20:35 and family therapist, this is my children lifetime 20:40 I'm influencing. 20:41 That's good. 20:43 You deal head on with this issue that if this statement is not 20:53 that provoking to you, if 20:55 it's something that you're going, I don't 20:57 know what they was talking about, then aren't we looking 21:01 at a selfish nature, 21:02 selfishness will get in the way of this idea. 21:04 The Bible says to consider the other better then yourself. 21:08 So, if I consider Cathy better then me and she considers me 21:13 better then her, then you 21:15 approach each other with that level also on top of it. 21:18 The Bible teaches us a priesthood of all believers. 21:20 The task of the priest was to minister. 21:27 We minister to each other. 21:29 The Bible says to live with your spouse in an understanding way. 21:36 If I understand what she needs then I can meet those needs. 21:40 If I can dialogue. 21:43 So one of the other keys besides understanding 21:47 that it is your spouses lifetime that you are using up. 21:53 Is understanding what their needs are. 21:56 The only way you can will do that is by dialogue, 21:58 by talking, by asking. 22:03 One of the things I've done with Cathy over the years. 22:05 I've done it with my kids as well, 22:07 when I take them out to restaurants. 22:09 Daddy, daughter dates with my three daughters 22:10 and Father, bonding you know for my son. 22:13 But I don't do this every week or every month. 22:16 I say this because I don't want to be redundant. 22:19 But what do you think that a wife feels like then a husband 22:23 looks her in the eyes, and really locks on and says: 22:29 I want you to feel like you 22:32 are the most valuable person in the world. 22:34 What kind of things can I do 22:37 to help you feel even more valuable. 22:40 Many men just have a difficult time 22:43 even locking eyes with their wife. 22:46 You know why? 22:48 Why? 22:49 Barbara De Angelos says in her book 22:50 Intimate Moments for Lovers 22:51 she says that when you look in someone's 22:53 eyes, you are looking into their heart. 22:54 A lot of men have stuff in their heart that they don't 22:58 want their spouse to touch because it is too painful. 23:03 So the next key in dealing with relational intimacy 23:07 is if you can't do that, then you need to 23:10 deal with the stuff that's blocking that, 23:13 that's stopping you from dealing, 23:15 and often it's the hurt from childhood. 23:18 I deal with that with men and women all the time. 23:20 Dealing with the stuff, you know 23:24 the Bible says in Eph. 4:31,32 to put away all bitterness, 23:28 rage, anger, harsh words, slander, and malicious behavior. 23:31 Instead, be kind to one another, tenderhearted 23:36 But you see you cant be kind to one another 23:38 and tenderhearted if you have 23:41 anger, and malice and hatred, 23:43 and you are using harsh words. 23:45 Or even it doesn't necessarily have to 23:48 be somebody that is coming 23:50 from a malicious standpoint, but maybe somebody that's 23:53 been deeply wounded. 23:54 It may be a trust or commitment issue. 23:58 Hurt people hurt other people. 23:59 That's good, yea, that's true 24:01 So, that's another key, another key is to deal with. 24:05 Again this is my plea for the men and women 24:09 who are going to be watching this. 24:12 Is it's your spouses lifetime. 24:14 So, whatever you have to do clear away the pain, 24:18 so you can actually bond. 24:20 Because that's what God wants for people and wanted marriage 24:24 to be originally it's a covenant of companionship. 24:30 Companionship! 24:32 Jerry I just know in my heart that there's going to be 24:36 somebody watching the program today who is sitting there 24:40 saying: I don't know what he's talking about. 24:41 Or some man, some woman who is saying: 24:45 I don't get it when your about this is my wife's 24:50 life and I am using up. 24:51 How can we reach that person to say: 24:54 Please tune in again see this, or help 24:57 understand what you are trying to say that you really do have 25:02 not only a responsibility, but an accountability 25:05 before God, as the husband or as the wife, to put the other one 25:11 before you and to meet their needs. 25:13 In doing so it is not that you will become a doormat 25:17 and you are laying yourself out, but that by you having 25:21 this generous giving heart, you 25:24 are going stir something in them. 25:27 Then you are talking about training up a husband, I found 25:31 in my early marriage (my husband 25:33 is admittedly, he was a commitment phobic), 25:35 and the first year we were married 25:37 was difficult, but the more loving and committed I 25:40 would show myself to be to him, the 25:42 more he learned he could trust 25:44 me and wounds from his past were kind of washed away. 25:47 Soon, this loving person that I 25:50 knew I was marrying really immerged. 25:53 Because there was something, I think he was 25:55 kind of fearful, rather fearful of meeting 25:57 all of my needs, because 25:59 he wasn't sure I was going to stick around. 26:02 What can you say we only have a little over a minute left, 26:07 what can you say to someone 26:08 how do you reach a wife who is saying, 26:11 I wish my husband would listen to this. 26:14 Or a husband who saying I wish my wife would listen. 26:17 What's the key to understanding this? 26:21 I think the key Shelley, is for people to, once they understand 26:29 the concept, it's going to just start working 26:31 on them, and working on them, and working on them. 26:34 Then, they are going to want to do something about it. 26:38 Read some good books, there's lots of good books 26:40 on intimacy out there, in Christian books stores, 26:43 on amazon. com, and by mused. 26:45 But the other thing is to be able to 26:48 then start sitting down and talking 26:50 together about what the experiences growing up, 26:53 about the wounds. 26:54 Just listening to each other it will be amazing for them 26:58 to see what that does. 27:00 Because you have to deal with the hurt 27:01 inside, in order to really heal 27:04 and in order to let your spouse get close to you. 27:06 If you don't do that, you will probably won't let your spouse 27:09 very close to you. 27:10 Praise the Lord! 27:11 I hope that the viewers have been blessed, 27:14 as I have been today. 27:15 I just want to say that it is possible to have 27:18 a wonderful relationship. 27:19 I've been married nearly 20 years and my husband and 27:22 our marriage is so wonderful. 27:24 I thought it could never be this good, but it is. 27:28 And so we hope that you will take this to heart today. 27:32 I want to thank you so much for watching, 27:34 but take this advice to heart. 27:35 And Jerry, thank you so much for coming today 27:38 and opening this topic. 27:40 I think it is an important one. 27:41 For our viewers now at home, 27:43 I pray that you will put this into practice. 27:47 Sit down with your husband or wife, look them eye to eye, 27:50 share your past and get closer to one another 27:53 and to the Lord. 27:55 Thank you. |
Revised 2014-12-17