Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Nancy Van Pelt
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000207
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00:30 Hello, I'm Shelly Quinn,
00:31 and welcome to another Issues and Answers. 00:33 I've got a question for you today: are you fit to be tied? 00:37 Well, if you're single, we want you to stay tuned, 00:39 or if you know a single, or want to give some good advice 00:42 to a single, stay tuned and learn about smart love 00:46 for singles, because our topic today is going to be 00:50 "Getting Fit to be Tied". 00:52 Let me share a scripture with you, and it comes from 00:54 1 Corinthians 13:11. I'm going to read 00:57 from the Amplified Version. This is Paul speaking, he says: 01:01 "When I was a child, I talked like a child," 01:03 "I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child;" 01:07 "but now that I have become a man," - or mature adult - 01:11 "I am done with childish things and have put them away. " 01:14 Well here today to talk with us about putting childish things 01:18 away and really as a mature adult being fit to be tied 01:23 in matrimony, the holy bonds of matrimony, is Nancy Van Pelt. 01:27 Nancy, thank you so much for joining us again today. 01:31 I'm delighted to be here, thank you. 01:32 Well, we're delighted to have you. 01:34 Nancy has written 28 books, she's talked and given 01:38 over 1000 seminars and she's traveled 55 countries, 01:42 soon to be 57. That's right. 01:44 Where are you going? I'm going to Nigeria and Nepal. 01:47 Wow, well you've been pretty much around the world then. 01:50 I have, it's been fun too. I'm sure it has. 01:52 Let's talk about our topic, and just jump right into this. 01:57 How do we go about evaluating if we are mature enough 02:01 to enter into a life union, a marriage? 02:06 I like what you just said because you were talking about 02:09 evaluating yourself, whether you are ready to be married. 02:14 Most people don't think of themselves as whether 02:16 "I'm ready to be married", they're busy looking 02:19 at the other person, and you need to do that too. 02:23 I tell people sometimes, when particularly, it seems like 02:26 young women will come up to me and say: 02:29 "I am praying for the perfect husband, and I'm praying" 02:31 "that God will prepare a man for me. " And I say: 02:33 "Uh, you pray that God will prepare you to be the perfect" 02:37 "wife for someone, and then let God prepare the man for you", 02:41 because we do need to have that focus on ourselves. 02:43 Not that, as we said, we should evaluate the other person, 02:47 but it needs to begin with us. It is much harder 02:51 than ever before, to find a really healthy person, 02:55 because so many people nowadays have been raised 02:58 in dysfunctional homes. 03:00 Now I kind of hate to use that word "dysfunctional" 03:02 because it's almost a word that is in vogue and everybody's 03:06 using it. The truth is we are all dysfunctional 03:10 because we are here on this sin-filled Earth, 03:14 but it's the degree to which we were raised and live 03:18 our lives in the dysfunctional manner. 03:20 And certainly, some people are much more dysfunctional 03:23 than others due to the home background that 03:27 they were raised in. But those who were raised under 03:31 an alcoholic home, for example, or drug users, 03:36 or where there was abuse, emotional or sexual abuse, 03:42 these are people that are going to have problems that need 03:46 to be worked through as they are adults. 03:49 They may have addictive tendencies, and if you have 03:53 an addiction in one area, the chances are, you're going to 03:57 have several more addictions. So you handle one, and then 04:01 pretty soon you find that you have another one to handle. 04:05 And all of this needs to be looked at before we get married. 04:09 So, if you're examining yourself to see if there's some type 04:13 of addictive behavior that you have, and you know, 04:15 you can be addicted to a lot of things 04:17 - even to the approval of man, instead of the approval of God. 04:22 If you have those insecurities, and you have addictions, 04:24 and you're looking at your own life, I mean, 04:27 that's where we've got to begin, it's with ourselves. 04:29 But how do you spot 04:31 serious dysfunctions in another person? 04:35 Through this testing that I have been talking about before, 04:39 this "Prepare" test would be one of the best ways of spotting it. 04:45 But another recommendation... Just a second, before you go 04:49 forward there, explain to our listeners 04:52 what the Prepare test is. Alright.The Prepare test is done 04:56 in several different forms. It's called Prepare. 04:59 If you are never married it's called Prepare MC. 05:02 If you have been previously married and have children, 05:05 it's called Prepare CC. 05:07 If you are in a "live together" relationship with somebody, 05:10 and may, if you are over the age of 50. 05:14 So we have these different versions, they're administrated 05:17 by pastors, and it can tell you within 86% accuracy 05:22 whether you will go through a divorce or not. 05:25 So pastors, or a mental health counselor, 05:27 family counselor can give this test. Yes, Uh huh. 05:30 Okay, so that's one way, but how's another way that 05:32 you can spot dysfunction in someone. 05:34 I recommend that everybody go through a "12 Step Program". 05:40 I think a 12 step program, and regardless of which 05:45 branch of program you might go through, 05:48 will tell you a lot about yourself. 05:52 It gets into evaluating your character traits. 05:55 In a 12 step program, you have to go back and work 05:59 through your childhood area, 06:02 your area as a young adult, 06:06 as an adult. It is more thorough 06:10 in evaluating your character and who you are, 06:14 than any other thing that I, personally, 06:16 have ever been through, and it will do a lot to make you 06:21 wake up to who you are. 06:23 Of course, it's easier and a lot less expensive than going 06:27 through counseling, but if you know that you have had 06:31 an alcoholic mother or father, drug abuse, any of these serious 06:35 abuse issues, you need to go through some kind of help. 06:38 Now, that may be professional counseling 06:42 and a mental health worker of some kind. 06:45 It can be gotten that way, to find out who you are. 06:49 And there are many excellent self-help books out there. 06:53 You know, I don't think a person should just sit back and say: 06:55 "Oh, God, do something about me. I'm a mess, fix me. " 07:00 God expects us also to use the resources that we have 07:04 at our fingertips. So there are many areas. Oh boy, have I got 07:07 a scripture for that, Romans 8:13 says that if we live 07:14 by the flesh, we will die, but if by the power 07:16 of the Holy Spirit we put to death the misdeeds of the flesh, 07:20 we will live. 07:21 So that scripture shows that we really can't change ourselves, 07:24 Jeremiah 13:23 says that we can't change ourselves more 07:27 than an Ethiopian can change his skin, or a leopard his spots, 07:31 but it also shows that God's not going to change us without 07:35 our cooperation. He says: If by the power of the Holy Spirit, 07:40 it's only by His power, that we can put to death. 07:43 So it's that cooperative effort, we do have to make an effort. 07:47 So, going through a 12 step program, if you know you're 07:51 coming from a dysfunctional background, 07:55 that can be very beneficial for you, but what about, I mean, 07:58 if I'm out on the dating market, and perhaps I've had a friend. 08:04 And we've just been friends within a circle of friends, 08:06 we've just started some casual dating and we're going 08:09 into a little more of a serious dating relationship, 08:13 an exclusive dating relationship. 08:15 How do I recognize in that person, if he's still 08:20 wearing a mask, how do I recognize some dysfunctions? 08:23 Are there some telltale signs? 08:25 There are some telltale signs, and they're listed in my book 08:29 "Smart Love', and I've had women say: "Nancy, if I had read" 08:33 "this book before I got married, I wouldn't be in a divorce" 08:37 "situation now. " But there are some things that you can look at 08:41 Is this person extremely jealous? Danger signal! 08:46 Is he a Hypochondriac? Danger signal! 08:52 Does he have an anger problem? Danger signal! 08:57 Is he ridden by phobias and fears? Danger signal! 09:03 So we can look at some of these things, but they don't 09:07 evidence themselves early in a relationship because people 09:11 do this masking, and we need to get beyond those masks. 09:15 I believe these masks can be in place and secure, 09:19 for up to a year. But masks get hot and heavy, 09:22 and they begin to slip after a year of dating. 09:26 So get past that first year of dating, then take 09:29 the second year to evaluate carefully; 09:32 how does he spend his money? 09:34 Is he going to be a good financial manager? 09:38 What kind of background is he from? Because maybe you have 09:42 worked to get yourself healthy, maybe you come from 09:45 a dysfunctional background, but you want to make sure 09:49 that he also has worked through his issues. 09:53 You see, once a couple get married, we have two people 09:57 in the boat. And if one's rocking the boat, we still need 10:01 one person to stabilize the boat, 10:04 but if both people are unhealthy, 10:08 we're not going to have anybody to stabilize. 10:11 Self-esteem is another major issue that I tell people 10:15 to look at, in fact, I think it is one of the critical 10:19 areas that you must look at. 10:21 How healthy is this person's self-esteem? 10:25 If you've done your work and you have been through 10:28 the grief process, and you've been through a 12 step program, 10:32 and you are healthy, then you've got to make sure that 10:35 the other person that you are marrying is emotionally healthy. 10:39 Either that, or I hope you're going to be a doctor or a nurse, 10:43 because you're going to spend 24 hours a day nursing care. 10:47 But in a relationship we want somebody to nurse our hurts, 10:51 and our wounds once in a while, and a person without healthy 10:56 self-esteem isn't capable of doing that. 10:58 They will take, and take, and take, 11:00 but never be able to give back. 11:02 And you are using the male pronoun "he, "he", "he", 11:06 but it can be "she", she", "she", too, and, you know, 11:09 there's sometimes that I've counseled with a number of men, 11:14 and my husband I, I've counseled with him, who were involved 11:18 with a woman, who, perhaps, they said: "Oh, she needs me" 11:21 "so much", and they were 11:23 actually drawn to this kind of clinging 11:26 vine type personality at first. 11:30 Until, when they married, and suddenly 11:32 they wanted them to be able to be a help mate, 11:35 and not just someone who needed them so much, 11:37 or always a Hypochondriac to, 11:42 maybe, control what was 11:44 happening in the family situation. 11:46 It's a difficult thing that, I think the most important advice 11:49 you can give to someone who's thinking about marrying someone, 11:52 is to say: "Okay, can you live with this" 11:56 "for the rest of your life?" and not think you're going 11:59 to change them, because only God and that person can work 12:02 together to change themselves. 12:04 And people don't try to think of changing prior to the time 12:07 that they are married. I'm thinking, 12:12 when I met Harry, he was absolutely perfect! 12:14 I have letters that I wrote him 12:17 at the time, telling him how perfect he was. Now how long 12:20 did this man stay perfect? Well, probably right up until the 12:24 "I do's" were said, and then I went into my 12:27 "remake Harry" mode, 12:28 and what happens to a relationship after 12:32 a wife begins that - the nagging, 12:34 the complaining, the fault finding? 12:36 The relationship goes downhill in a hurry. 12:39 So we don't talk about it before marriage, but after marriage, 12:43 in my marriage seminar, I spend one whole lesson, 12:46 or 2 hours, teaching people how to accept the other person 12:50 at face value. 12:52 But that needs to be thought of prior 12:54 to the time that we get married. We can't change that person. 12:58 And, especially a man, doesn't want a mother. 13:01 You know, it's funny that you said that about Harry 13:03 because with JD and I, 13:06 he was a true commitment phobic, 13:09 and you've probably dealt with some of those in the past, 13:11 so what he did in our relationship, 13:14 he did not try to, he showed me his very worse side. 13:18 He didn't do anything to, as the world says: 13:22 "Wine and dine you". He had done that 13:23 with all these other women, but because he knew I was 13:26 the real thing, and he really wanted to marry me, 13:28 it was kind of like he did everything he could to make sure 13:31 that it wouldn't happen if I wouldn't accept him. 13:34 And so, it was kind of pleasant. Once we got married 13:37 it was better than before. That's unusual. 13:40 It is unusual, but I knew him well before we married. 13:44 But now, let me ask you, because I hear so many young adults 13:49 say that what they want to do to make sure that they're right 13:54 for each other, is that they want to live together 13:57 for a while and test this relationship, 14:00 and see if that's right. What advice could give to, perhaps, 14:04 some of our viewers who are thinking about moving 14:07 in together to see if they're right for marriage? 14:10 This has been one of the greatest social phenomena 14:13 that has taken place, particularly in America, 14:16 although America is not the only country 14:19 - Sweden, is another very secular society. 14:24 What they don't recognize, couples who live together, 14:27 is they are actually sabotaging 14:29 the possibility of having a healthy relationship. 14:33 That is, in addition to the fact 14:36 that it is not part pf God's plan for us prior to the time 14:39 that we are married. But there are seven major studies 14:43 that show that relationships, couples, who live together 14:47 before they are married have a higher rate of break-up. 14:51 In America it's 50% higher, in Canada it's 54% higher, 14:57 and in Sweden it's 80% higher divorce rates when a couple 15:01 live together. 15:02 You know something that is so funny,I tell people: 15:05 "You don't know somebody truly" 15:07 "until you marry them. " And you see so many times people 15:10 who've lived together for a year, or two years, 15:12 and then they get married, and they think by living together 15:15 they've learned who that person is, and then they get 15:18 married and they're like: 15:19 "Who is this person that I've married?" because, really, 15:24 I guess for all of us there's some sort of camouflage 15:28 that goes on until that final "I do" and then it comes off. 15:33 We might use that term "masking" again. You see, 15:35 when you're married, you can't get out of it without 15:38 going through a divorce. 15:40 Now actually, they have what they call 15:42 the "Honeymoon phase", the "glow" 15:44 that will last about 6 weeks, but then you begin 15:47 to let your guard down. But with a couple now who 15:51 is living together, you stay on your best behavior 15:55 maybe for a little longer period of time because 15:58 that person could dump you at any point, but eventually, 16:03 the real you will come out 16:06 and you may not like what you are seeing in the other person. 16:09 Yet, it's hard to get out of these 16:12 live-together relationships. 16:16 They also find that there is more abuse - [host] Really? 16:21 Yes, more abuse, more alcoholism 16:24 more drug abuse, in live-together relationships. 16:28 And again, I think a lot of women 16:32 do it for desperation. 16:34 Alright, let's look for a moment now why women want 16:36 a live-together relationship and why men do. 16:40 We come up with two separate reasons: women do it because 16:44 they are hoping that this will lead to a permanent relationship 16:48 or to marriage. 16:49 But you know what men say? I get sex, 16:52 when I want it, how I want it, and it's safe sex. 16:58 Men are doing it to avoid that commitment. 17:01 Yes, and men are getting all the advantages, 17:03 and women are paying the price, and they're not smart 17:06 enough to hold out until they are married 17:10 and follow God's word. 17:12 Well, certainly, living together is no insurance against 17:15 a divorce, should you once then decide to marry. 17:18 Is there any divorce insurance? 17:21 The best divorce insurance that's out there, is a required 17:26 waiting time prior to the time 17:28 that a couple get married, 17:30 and I believe that our churches should be insisting 17:34 that a couple wait close to several months, 17:38 maybe even as much as 6 months. 17:41 She may be pregnant, she... you know, 17:43 there may be a lot of reasons for rushing through this. 17:47 There's a time period where 17:49 I believe they should be going into intensive 17:52 premarital guidance, and following a curriculum, 17:56 meeting with their pastor or a pastoral couple, 18:00 a counselor of some kind 18:02 who is trained in this, to go through these issues. 18:05 The best divorce insurance, of course, is going to be 18:08 this prepare test that I mentioned, 18:12 that can actually evaluate 18:14 the relationship, in black and white, 18:16 making sure that the couple is ready? 18:19 Can you cheat on that test? 18:21 I don't think you can cheat on this test. 18:23 And what would be the advantage of cheating? 18:25 You're only fooling yourself and ruining your chances. 18:29 And then afterwards there's a mentor couple 18:34 that would be great to work with. 18:36 Now let me recommend that the mentor couple 18:39 not be a pastoral couple. I'll tell you why, 18:42 because if anybody has to be on their good behavior, 18:45 it's the pastor and his wife at all times. 18:47 So let me make sure I understand what you're saying is that 18:52 if you've gone through this prepare test, that most pastors 18:56 and family counselors can give you this test and if those 19:00 results are good then you may go forward, 19:03 if they're not good then you probably want to go 19:05 for counseling and straighten these issues out 19:08 before you get married. But once you're married, 19:10 you're saying now you need to have a mentor couple, 19:13 and don't choose the pastor and his wife. 19:15 I'm saying before you get married you have a mentor couple 19:21 who have been married for a few years, 19:23 and you can talk over real issues with them. 19:27 How have they worked it out? 19:29 And this is another excellent piece of advice, 19:32 so if a couple were doing all of these things, 19:36 they would enter marriage intelligently. 19:40 Right now, we have no intelligent way of preparing 19:44 people for marriage. 19:46 Even a drivers license you have to study a booklet for, 19:49 and you have to take an eye test, and you have to do 19:53 several things, but for marriage we require hardly anything 19:57 of a couple before this. It's foolishness! 20:00 Yes it is foolishness. 20:02 Well, what are some of the things that you would think are 20:04 the best ways to select a mate, or what's to look for in a mate? 20:09 One of the best ways of evaluating a person, 20:12 and without knowing anything about them, you need to know 20:17 about their home background. 20:19 How was this person raised? 20:22 The healthier that their mother and father were in their 20:27 relationship when they were growing up, 20:30 the higher the chances are that this person 20:33 will be a healthy person. But the more issues that 20:38 this person grew up with, a single parent, abuse, 20:43 multiple divorces, all of these things are now going 20:46 to rise to haunt this person. Another issue that this person 20:51 has to work through. So the happier that person's 20:56 mother and father were, they start out with an advantage 21:00 right off the bat. Then there are many other things 21:02 that you need to look at, but just look 21:05 at how were they raised? That's the big issue. 21:09 Well, now I'm going to have to take issue on that a little bit, 21:12 and that is to say that there's exceptions to every rule 21:15 because when I first met my husband, 21:20 he was working on his doctorate in Psychology, 21:22 and when he first met my family he said: 21:25 "They threw away the book. " 21:27 My mother had been married multiple time, manic depressive, 21:32 I had an abusive alcoholic step-father and then she became 21:36 an alcoholic, she was not abusive, but she became 21:39 an alcoholic as well. And I came from an incredibly 21:42 dysfunctional family and was one of those who had that 21:46 exaggerated sense of responsibility, and very mature 21:50 at a very young age. Now, it did affect my sister differently, 21:53 she falls into that category you're talking about, 21:56 so there are individual circumstances, but surely, 21:59 one thing that my mother always told me, Nancy, was: 22:02 "Make sure that the man you're thinking of marrying has a good" 22:05 "relationship with his mother, because if he doesn't treat" 22:09 "her well, then you've got problems. " 22:12 That's right, and so, you need to see this person 22:15 with their family, if their family is anywhere 22:19 to be around; how do they relate to their family? 22:23 What kind of sex attitudes did this person grow up with? 22:27 Is there any strong aversion to sex, 22:30 and who was the primary sex educator? 22:35 How happy was their mother? 22:37 How happy was the person's father? 22:39 All of these are issues that are going 22:41 to come to play in marriage. 22:43 You know, this is something that as Christians we believe 22:46 that you should not have sex before marriage, 22:49 which the Bible is very clear about, 22:51 but I remember my pastor when I was very young, 22:55 he and his wife, as I grew into an adult 22:59 and I was involved in part-time ministry, I became 23:02 very good friends with them, and they talked very openly 23:04 when I was single and thinking about getting married, 23:07 they talked very openly with me and they'd had a lot 23:10 of horrible problems in their marriage, which never showed, 23:15 none of us knew that, but they were basically living together 23:19 till the children got old enough to 23:22 go off to college, and then they were able 23:24 to salvage their marriage. But the issue was that 23:28 the Christian home in which he was brought up, 23:29 his mother was the sex educator 23:32 and she taught him that sex was dirty, that it was nasty, 23:36 and so that was their main problem in their relationship, 23:41 is that he had an aversion against this. 23:44 And he had to eventually face this and go to counseling. 23:48 So there's so many different things that come into play here, 23:51 aren't there? There are many different things, 23:53 and this type of an aversion, or poor background is going 23:57 to come into play with a person perhaps thinking of sex 24:01 as something ugly, or dirty 24:04 and not as the beautiful gift 24:06 that God has given to husband and wife. 24:09 And I do stake a very strong stand about no sex prior 24:13 to the time that we are married. You have to look 24:17 at the word "virgin" to really understand this. 24:21 When you look at the word "virgin" in the dictionary, 24:24 it talks about purity and chastity; 24:28 and it mentions a person of either sex. 24:32 So this isn't something that's only required of females. 24:36 God wants both male and female to be sexually pure, 24:41 which gets into some other areas 24:43 which are questionable sexual activities. 24:46 A lot of people are thinking that they can do certain things 24:50 and they still are not part of God's plan for our life. 24:54 Did you know that 39 times in scripture, God speaks against 24:59 sexual activity prior to the time that we are married. 25:03 This is a very strong message that He's trying to give to us. 25:07 And single's are having big problems with this. Why? 25:11 Because they've been married previously, they're not used 25:15 to a dating relationship where some place along the line 25:19 you can express romantic affection for the other person, 25:23 but you're supposed to call a halt. Where is this line? 25:26 Where should we be calling a halt? Big issues! 25:29 But I also feel that this is one of the big issues why there's 25:34 a higher divorce rate the second and third time around. 25:38 Stats show us that about 95% of singles do engage in 25:43 sexual activity prior to the time that they are married. 25:48 Now you're talking singles, people who are single again 25:52 and have been previously married. 25:54 Because - even among Christians? Even among Christians - 25:58 which affects the divorce rate. 26:00 I believe the closer we come to God's pattern, 26:04 the closer we follow God's rules, the better and higher 26:08 our chances are going to be. 26:11 And the living together business is not part of God's plan. 26:16 You know when you were saying how people don't know 26:19 if they've been accustomed to, 26:22 when they are romantically involved with someone, 26:25 if they've been married and they're accustomed to that 26:27 they don't know how to go into a new relationship 26:30 and once it becomes a serious relationship, 26:32 express that romantic intimacy with one another without 26:37 going beyond that place that is acceptable 26:41 in God's eyes for unmarried people. 26:44 I thought of the scripture in Romans 13:14 that talks about 26:48 making no provision for the flesh, put off the old [?], 26:51 clothe yourself with Jesus; make no provision for the flesh 26:55 because the only way, if that is, 26:58 and boy I've talked with a lot of people here who'll say: 27:01 "we never intended to, we agreed we weren't" 27:04 "going to do this, but you know," 27:06 "it was just late and we'd had a nice dinner" 27:09 "and we were cozied up by the fire all alone," 27:12 "and the music was playing, and it happened;" 27:15 "and it just seemed so right. " The thing that we've got 27:18 to do is make no provision for the flesh. Avoid those places 27:24 that you could get into those problems. 27:26 Well, you know what? Our time is all gone already, 27:29 I can't believe it. Nancy it goes by so fast 27:31 when you're here. 27:32 Thank you so much and I think we've got some good advice 27:34 out there for our people, and I hope people watch 27:39 this program and be fit to be tied. Thank you so much 27:43 for joining us and remember, put off the childish things, 27:47 become mature in the Lord Jesus Christ, 27:49 and you can have a happy relationship again. 27:53 Thank you. |
Revised 2014-12-17