Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Nancy Van Pelt
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000204
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00:30 Hello I'm Shelley Quinn and welcome
00:32 to another Issues and Answers. 00:35 You know if you are 30 or over and you 00:37 are single or if you know someone who is 00:39 30 and over and they are single then you'll 00:42 want to call them and tell them to stay tune 00:44 to this because we are gonna be talking 00:46 about the dating game for singles and 00:49 particularly for that age group today. 00:52 I wanted to share this scripture with you and 00:54 its Psalms 16:11, one of my favorite verses 00:57 in the Bible. It says, you will show me the 01:00 path of life and in your presence I find 01:04 fullness of joy. Well we have someone 01:07 here today who is going to help us see 01:10 what God's path is for those who are single 01:13 and how to, learn how to love smart and date 01:17 smart for the singles. And I'm referring to 01:20 our special guest who has done over a 1000 01:23 seminars, she's written 28 books and she has 01:26 been in 55 countries and it's my pleasure to 01:29 welcome Nancy Van Pelt. Nancy, I'm so glad 01:32 you are here today. Thank you I'm 01:33 delighted to be here. Well this is gonna be 01:36 really, I think something exciting because we 01:38 have so many people who write and call 01:41 3ABN and they're asking us, do something for the 01:45 singles, and when we talk about smart love 01:47 for singles that has something that we 01:49 really need to be trained in. Yes. 01:53 Because singles have special problems, 01:55 especially after they pass that age 30, 01:58 get into that age bracket beyond that 02:00 and then especially also following death 02:03 or divorce. Yes. And what do they do in the 02:07 dating game. Amen, amen. Now you are 02:10 married, your husband is Harry and you had 02:13 three children, so you've been through 02:16 a lot of this you've seen it not only in 02:20 your ministry but in home, in raising your 02:22 children and you know about his dating 02:24 game, tell us a little bit about how you 02:26 became really focused on this issue. 02:29 I had written a book called Complete 02:31 Courtship which was about dating for 02:33 young adults and then the singles began 02:36 hearing some of these principles that I was 02:39 dating and they said, Nancy, we want you 02:41 to come to singles' retreats and focus on 02:44 some of the same issues and just 02:46 upgrade it a little bit. So I was doing that 02:49 but then I thought no this is not good 02:51 enough, the issues that singles faced are 02:55 entirely different then they are when they 02:57 are teenagers, yes. So I thought about 02:59 writing a book, so I wrote a book called 03:02 Smart Love: A Field Guide for Single Adults. 03:05 And then I teach singles ministries you 03:08 know conferences and so forth. 03:10 Praise the Lord. Well I know that you are 03:12 very big on the idea of pacing a 03:15 relationship and you've actually kind 03:17 of divided this down into seven steps in 03:20 a relationship, why don't you talk about 03:22 the dating relationship for us. 03:24 Alright, I believe that pacing a relationship 03:27 is so important. You see it's called 03:30 the dating game, well you know we don't 03:34 play a very good game if we don't 03:36 know the rules, right. And people don't 03:39 know the rules so they can't play a good 03:41 game but one of the rules is learning to 03:44 pace a relationship, runners have to learn 03:47 to pace a relationship or they burn out 03:50 before the end of the race. So I have divided the 03:53 dating game into seven stages. 03:56 And singles have trouble accepting 03:58 these seven stages because they think 04:00 that they can fall in love faster than a 04:04 teenager can. They're mature, but 04:07 you know what it doesn't matte whether 04:09 you are 70 or whether you are 17 falling in 04:13 love always affects you the same way. 04:16 And when you are 70 it could even affect 04:19 you a little bit more deeply because it's 04:23 been so long since you felt the 04:25 accelerating feelings of love, right, it could 04:28 fool you into trying to raise through 04:31 these stages too fast. But I'll tell you about 04:33 some of these stages. Stage number one is friendship. 04:37 Now what does friendship has to do 04:39 with a relationship? It has everything. 04:42 Amen. Your best dating relationships 04:45 are going to come from your circle of friends. 04:48 So one of the big rules for a single to do 04:52 then is to have a wide circle of friends and 04:55 keep that friendship circle going. 04:58 This is how they're going to meet a lot of 05:00 new potential partners. But in friendship 05:04 there is no love, direct love feelings at least 05:06 certainly not at the beginning but you can 05:09 see a person easier and you can see them 05:12 after they get a speeding ticket, 05:14 you can see them after they've had 05:16 a hard day at work. You can be with the 05:18 opposite sex and get to know them faster in 05:22 a friendship level then you could on ten 05:25 formal dates, where you dress up and you 05:27 go out and you're both on your best behavior. 05:30 That's what I was just getting ready to say is 05:32 that, you know and this is something that 05:35 we don't really, a lot of us at least don't like 05:38 to refer to any relationship as a game. 05:41 But truly the dating courtship there is that 05:45 peacock standards what I call it, 05:46 where you know you've got someone 05:48 who is on their best behavior, 05:50 they're spreading those peacock 05:51 feathers and you don't get to know someone 05:54 as you said but being a friend is critical to a 05:58 relationship if it's going to be a long 06:00 lasting relationship and especially if 06:02 you're gonna marry someone I can't 06:03 imagine being married to someone 06:05 who isn't a really good friend. 06:07 A genuine, yes. And very often when 06:11 I am dealing with a married person, 06:12 a married couple for example I'll say, 06:15 do the two of you like each other? 06:18 Like each other. Well what happened? 06:20 They can't stand each other, what happened? 06:23 They fell in love so rapidly; they forgot to 06:26 move through these stages that I'm talking 06:28 about right now, slow enough so they found 06:31 out if they like each other to start with. 06:34 Okay I'm gonna ask you a question, 06:36 do you think that we really "fall in love" 06:39 or, 'cause they I think that we grow in love 06:42 in that state, you know I stayed single 06:45 for a long time, I had a mother who have 06:48 been married multiple times and then I didn't 06:50 want to repeat that mistake. 06:51 So I stayed single a long time, developed 06:54 a career and there were many times 06:56 when I thought I was in love, I was even 06:58 engaged a number of times before I met my husband. 07:02 And it's interesting when I met my 07:03 husband we really were more, we went 07:06 through that friendship then we became 07:08 business partners and worked together and 07:11 I saw him in every imaginable situation 07:15 and we knew each other inside and out 07:17 before we really began dating. 07:19 That's the way to do it. You know we, we talk 07:22 about a soldier falling in battle, we talk about 07:25 leaves falling off a tree, that isn't the way 07:28 we fall in love, it's just a term, right, 07:31 that we use. And it's much better to 07:33 say that we grow into love, amen. 07:36 And a tree grows, how long does it take 07:39 a tree to grow, it's a lengthy process, right. 07:43 But we don't want to slow down the 07:44 process of falling in love. That's you know, 07:47 once those accelerate feelings takeover then 07:50 we just kept put the brakes on it. 07:52 But stage one is the, the friendship stage, right. 07:56 Alright. Stage two is the date, is casual dating. 08:02 Alright now what keeps it casual is that 08:06 you are not in love yet and it's an extension 08:09 of the friendship you already know the 08:11 person and now you are seeing that person alone. 08:16 No, the group is no longer with you so it 08:19 takes the relationship to a new level but 08:21 there is no commitment, you are still free to 08:25 date others, should there be other people 08:27 in your life. But because you are 08:29 alone you get to know that person on a 08:31 different level so it's, the relationship keeps 08:34 growing and I like to see people stay in that 08:38 casual dating relationship for a good period of time. 08:41 So they really get to know one another. 08:43 Now, I can already see that there's 08:45 probably some problems in that 08:47 if you are coming into a causal dating 08:50 relationship, how do you keep it casual 08:52 on both sides. Well, if you got someone, 08:56 what kind of activities would you recommend 08:58 so that you are not letting one person 09:01 their feeling start blossoming and 09:03 growing where they want something more 09:05 faster than the other. You've asked a very 09:07 good question because I talk about two kinds 09:10 of dates and I'm not talking about good 09:12 ones and bad ones. Right. There are two 09:14 kinds of dating activities, one is the 09:17 spectator date and one is a participation type date. 09:21 Now what would we do on a spectator date, 09:24 you're going to sit and watch. 09:26 Well what kind of examples can I use, 09:29 going to a sporting event, going to the 09:31 movies probably the most popular date in 09:34 America, going to plays or a concert, 09:37 those are spectator type dates. 09:39 And they have some advantages because 09:42 anybody can buy a ticket and go and sit 09:46 but what's the purpose of dating. 09:49 The purpose of dating is to get to know the 09:51 other person when you are sitting in a 09:54 movie for example what are you getting 09:57 to know about the other person, nothing. 10:00 Next to nothing, there is no time for 10:02 conversation or anything like that, 10:05 so it defeats the purpose of dating. 10:08 So I recommend to people the 10:10 participation type of date what I am talking 10:14 about, let's talk about cooking a meal together. 10:18 If a couple were to plan a meal what 10:21 would you learn? You would learn about 10:23 the other person's likes and dislikes. 10:26 If you were to go shopping together, 10:28 what would you learn? You could learn more 10:30 about their likes and dislikes but you could 10:32 add to that now, how they like to spend money? 10:35 Then if you come home and you prepare 10:37 the meal together in a kitchen you begin to 10:40 learn how you work together as a team. 10:43 So you can learn so much more about any 10:45 kind of an activity where the two of you 10:48 can participate. It slows things down, 10:51 you're not spending time in a dark movie 10:55 theater or sitting around listening to 10:57 music or watching videos and DVDs that 11:01 kind of thing which can lead to heavy 11:03 physical involvement. So it has many, many 11:07 advantages. So that's how you 11:09 keep things casual. Okay and in the 11:11 casual stage you just hit on something that 11:14 I think is probably very important, in the 11:16 casual stage you are going to be to keep 11:19 things casually, you've got to avoid 11:20 that heavy physical involvement or just, 11:22 exactly, even that kind I mean what 11:25 would recommend not going any further than 11:28 a hand holding or a hug at this casual date stage. 11:32 I can't lay any hard guidelines on that but 11:36 couples have to look at what is appropriate 11:39 for our level of involvement here, 11:41 we are casual friends. I maybe dating this 11:44 person I maybe going skiing with this one 11:46 and off to it, so I may have two or three 11:49 partners, how much emotional and sexual 11:54 energy do any of us have to invest in that 11:57 many people. And when you're talking 11:59 about that we are not talking about 12:02 the truly, well I start to say intimate acts, 12:05 but what we are talking about sexual 12:06 energy, we're still talking about keeping 12:08 things very Biblical, being very pure, yes. 12:12 But there is something even the intimacy of 12:16 exchanging the kiss for example that is 12:19 very intimate act and if you're still dating a 12:23 number of other people, in my mind 12:25 anyway if I was going on a casual date with 12:27 someone, it seizes to be casual once you 12:30 start kissing, exactly. Okay. It changes the 12:33 focus, right. And kissing leads to more, 12:39 you see whatever level of intimacy 12:42 we've achieved this time we want to take 12:44 it to another level another time, so every 12:48 person has to figure out. They need to know 12:50 my steps to pair- bonding, now that's 12:52 something that maybe we should do a 12:54 program on, the steps to pair-bonding are 12:57 what help people lay down guidelines and 13:00 what makes this so difficult Shelly is that 13:04 30 something singles many of them have 13:06 been married previously, yes. 13:09 So they're not used to putting limits on their 13:13 physical affection for one another. 13:15 So where is the stopping place when 13:18 you are no longer, you've been married 13:20 and you've been used to going through the 13:22 12 steps to pair- bonding on a regular 13:24 basis suddenly you reenter the dating 13:28 scene, you're supposed to stop 13:29 some place, people don't know where the 13:31 stopping place is. So then if you are doing, 13:35 I mean, I can't imagine being single 13:38 again, I mean just can't even imagine it 13:40 but there are so many who are single out 13:43 there that what, they've got to do is 13:46 I would say number one you are really 13:48 praying about who you are being friend, 13:51 I mean your friends, who you're going to 13:52 start a casual dating relationship, yes. 13:55 And pray together, I mean I would believe 13:57 that, that would be a very important thing 13:58 to begin, the beginning of your 14:01 relationship is to pray that the Lord will help 14:03 you develop this friendship to see if 14:06 you should go any further as into this 14:08 more serious dating relationship and ask 14:11 and set, I mean would you recommend that 14:14 you actually sit down and talk with one 14:16 another before you begin a casual dating 14:18 relationship and say let's set some ground 14:20 rules here, here's what we're going to do and 14:22 here's what we are not going to do because 14:24 we are not making a commitment to one 14:26 another to be exclusively dating one 14:29 another and we don't want our friendship to 14:32 be ruined here, so there's got to be some 14:34 kind of ground rules, isn't there? 14:36 Yes, and I recommend that, 14:37 that does not mean that you start dating 14:40 somebody and say hello my name is 14:42 Cynthia and I don't sleep around. Yeah. 14:45 But setting your ground rules, 14:47 there needs to be some spiritual 14:49 oneness and of course I recommend this. 14:53 But the trouble is now I believe in what 14:54 you're saying Shelley, but I want you to 14:56 know something when two people, 14:58 two single people think they are falling 15:00 in love and they pray about it, they God, 15:04 they say that God, I think they're hearing 15:06 anything that God wants them to hear, 15:09 you know they're just believing that all and 15:12 I'm not so sure all of that is from God. 15:16 Okay. So they do need to use their head 15:19 and their heart through this whole process. 15:22 Right. So once you've gone from your, just a 15:26 group activities with friends and you know 15:28 that you all have something, there's 15:31 something that's attracting you to one 15:33 another then you begin the casual 15:35 dating where you're gonna set some 15:36 ground rules and say we're at least not 15:38 going to I mean if we're still dating 15:40 others, we're going to keep this more of a 15:43 friendship, it's just two friends out doing 15:46 activities together and you recommend that 15:48 you're doing the participation type 15:51 things that you, yes, and learning about 15:53 one another. So what's the next stage? 15:55 Alright, the next stage is called special dating. 15:59 They still have not committed themselves 16:01 to an exclusive dating relationship but 16:05 they've spend some time; they know that 16:07 they're becoming more special to one another. 16:10 Now this and it can mean also two, for 16:12 two single adults who are both out in the 16:15 business world with jobs, their company 16:19 that they work for may have an annual 16:21 Christmas party or 4th of July picnic, yeah. 16:23 Who are they going to invite? 16:26 They are going to look around in their 16:27 circle of friends or in their special dating 16:31 relationships for somebody to invite, 16:33 so it means one of two things either a 16:35 special occasion event like that or it means 16:38 that the relationship is growing. 16:40 Now stage four then is where we move 16:43 into an exclusive dating relationship 16:46 and this is where the picture changes 16:47 because you are no longer dating around. 16:50 The two of you have an understanding that 16:53 there will be none of that and if there is 16:55 then of course the great break up will occur. 16:58 So there's, that's stage four then is a 17:00 commitment level, that's for the 17:02 commitment level. Okay. And of course 17:05 this has much greater meaning for a single 17:09 adult than it does for a teenager, absolutely. 17:12 Because as a teenager all 12 and 13 year 17:15 olds you know are going steady, but for 17:17 the single adult, when they get to that level 17:20 they are seriously looking one another 17:23 over and it can mean a lot. 17:25 This stage is an important stage 17:27 because this is where you can do some 17:28 serious evaluation. Once you become 17:31 formally engaged it's much too 17:32 difficult to break up. But this also changes 17:36 the relationship because they are 17:38 spending more time alone together, 17:41 this is where couples will declare their love 17:44 for each other, it's much more serious, 17:48 this is a good time for them to test their 17:50 communication skills. If a couple can not 17:53 communicate now they are not going to 17:56 do any better when they're married. 17:58 I was in the bank last week and I was 18:03 asking about some royalty money that 18:04 was being transferred and the banker said, 18:07 what's royalty money? I said that's when you 18:09 write a book. And he says, what do you 18:11 write about? I said I write about 18:12 dating relationships, are you married? 18:15 No, he said I'm living with somebody. 18:17 And he was telling me about he said, I need 18:20 to break up with her because our 18:23 communication is no good. I said if your 18:26 communication is no good now, what do 18:29 you think will happen later on should you marry, 18:32 and he said I've got to go home and change things. 18:35 But see once a couple is living together it is 18:37 so difficult to break up that relationship. 18:41 So a lot of this can go on right now in stage four. 18:47 Serious evaluation of how you communicate, 18:51 studying out your conflict resolution 18:55 skills, do you have the same likes and 18:57 dislikes, do you have the same values? 19:01 It's your values, your goals, absolutely, and 19:03 your belief system. These are what matter 19:06 in the end, absolutely. And this is a good 19:09 stage that, now are we, this is the next 19:12 stage engagement or, we have one stage 19:15 yet, okay, that's engaged to be engaged. 19:19 Alright. Now, I like that I've referred that 19:22 stage before. Well it's when the couple is 19:24 talking about getting married, but you see 19:27 it's not a formal out, I'll tell you in a 19:29 minute what a formal engagement is, but it's 19:31 just the talk stage. Someday when we're 19:34 married, someday when we have enough 19:36 money, someday when our past is 19:39 settled and the divorce is final and all 19:42 of this, then we'll get married. 19:44 But nothing is nailed down, so it's an in 19:47 between stage between four which is 19:50 the exclusive and six, which is 19:54 the formal engagement. And you said something 19:56 that I've just got to pick up on because 19:58 you said someday when the divorce is final. 20:01 So there are people who are separated but 20:05 not divorced, who are entering into the 20:09 dating game while they are waiting for 20:10 divorce, which I think you would probably 20:13 agree is a very unwise decision. 20:20 I take an extremely hard stand on people 20:27 dating while their divorce is still in 20:28 process and I don't care if they have been 20:29 separated 13 years, they are still married. 20:34 We have two kinds of people, married 20:35 people, dating people. Married people 20:37 simply do not date, and anybody who 20:41 date somebody who is in the process of 20:43 divorce or still married they are very 20:46 emotionally unstable and they are setting 20:49 themselves up for big trouble. Absolutely. 20:52 And it's something that you can't foretell 20:54 the future there so. That's right. 20:56 Now, let me ask this then once you get, 21:00 how do you know when you're in that 21:03 stage of dating where you are engaged to be 21:06 engaged, how do you know when it's time, 21:09 when it's right to say this is it? 21:11 I believe in people using their head as 21:14 well as their heart and there is a test, really? 21:17 That I want everybody to know about and to 21:21 take and it's called prepare. 21:24 And there are different versions of 21:25 it, if you have been married previously 21:27 and you still have children at home, 21:29 it's called prepare MC. If you have been 21:31 living together it's called prepare CC. 21:34 And this prepare test is a 125 questions, 21:38 it measures you in ten different areas, 21:42 finances, sex, your communication, 21:44 your goals, equality, all kinds of things. 21:48 And it can tell you within 86 percent 21:52 accuracy whether you will go through a 21:54 divorce or not. Any couple that 21:57 misses this opportunity to test their relationship 22:01 is really missing so much. Do people take those, 22:05 I mean what if somebody gets a low 22:07 score, do they really take it seriously and 22:09 say okay I can't have anything to do with 22:11 you, because we flunk this test. 22:12 Well you see after you take the test then 22:14 you go into counseling and you 22:15 work through the areas that you do not, 22:18 you do not agree on. Okay. And so it's a 22:22 powerful tool yet I know couples that 22:25 will not take it or well, where one 22:28 refuses to take it. How would you get 22:30 that resource? You have to find a 22:33 trained counselor, its in my book Smart 22:36 Love, how to contact the headquarters but a 22:39 person has to be certified in order to do this test. 22:42 And the test is called prepare, prepare. 22:44 Okay, yes. So now walk us through the 22:46 last stage here, now you're engaged, 22:47 alright the last stage is, still dating, right. 22:50 The last stage is a formal engagement 22:52 and several things happen here to make 22:55 it formal. First of all there is a public 22:57 announcement to family and friends, 22:59 this is so important when you become 23:02 formally engaged your family needs to 23:04 know, your parents want to know, 23:07 everybody needs to know, so it's no 23:09 longer a secret. A secret engagement 23:12 is no engagement at all, somebody is 23:15 fooling somebody. There is a reason why 23:17 people, well we don't want to tell anybody 23:19 yet, why don't they want to tell anybody? 23:22 Engagements are public affairs. 23:25 So perhaps the reason they don't want to tell 23:27 someone is because they're afraid of what 23:29 the family's going to say, afraid of 23:31 disapproval and that would be a red flag to me. 23:36 Red flags. Okay. And secondly a gift of 23:40 some kind needs to be given by the 23:42 prospective groom to the prospective bride, 23:45 this formalizes that she has something 23:48 special in her possession that has 23:51 been given to her by the greatest man on 23:55 earth that she can cherish forever. 23:59 And sometimes it can be any kind of a gift, 24:02 sometimes it's a ring, sometimes it's a set of 24:07 dishes, or a piece of furniture. 24:11 Then the third thing, a watch, a watch, yes, 24:15 it can be anything that she cherishes. 24:18 And so these are some of the things that 24:21 make an engagement formal, so then we are 24:27 we know and then a formal engagement 24:28 really again take your time you're not 24:32 married yet, this is your last opportunity 24:35 for a close look at our relationship. 24:39 And about 1/3rd of all engagements, formal 24:42 engagements, to break up an engagement is 24:46 still a far cry from being legally married 24:49 and it is not a signal that we are almost 24:51 married so we can began a sexual relationship. 24:54 No, I'm sorry that is still not God's plan for 24:59 the unmarried. Absolutely not. 25:01 You know I look back in my life and as 25:04 I said I was engaged a number of times and 25:06 thought that I was "in love." 25:09 But one thing that happened Nancy 25:10 when I was just 13 years old I remember 25:12 a babysat for a woman was a 25:16 Christian but she'd married a 25:18 non-Christian and her husband wouldn't 25:19 allow her to go to church and I used to 25:21 go to her all the time and say, are you 25:24 gonna lose your soul over a man, 25:25 so I prayed when I was 13, Lord don't let 25:28 me lose my soul over a man. 25:30 And it was interesting that I would sometimes 25:34 I would become engaged and all of a 25:36 sudden it would be like God was showing 25:38 me that this man not going to walk in the 25:42 kingdom and I get really serious with 25:44 God and really serious with the man 25:46 about making Christ the foundation of our marriage. 25:49 And as I said a number of times that I was 25:51 engaged I look back now and my husband 25:55 I know that the Lord really prepared the 25:57 two of us for one another and we went 26:00 through a two year period basically, 26:03 we dated six months, broke up but then we 26:05 continued to be friends and we 26:08 became business partners and we are so 26:11 well suited for one another. 26:13 And there is something that I look back on 26:14 any one of the other engagements I think 26:16 I would have been divorced. Yeah. 26:19 So the engagement, this whole process 26:21 when people might say we don't want to wait. 26:25 You're just actually saving yourself some 26:28 heartache down the road by making 26:30 certain that this person. I tell people all the 26:33 time, I tell young people the second 26:35 most important decision you'll ever make in 26:37 your life, that's right, is who you marry. 26:39 The first is whether you accept Christ as 26:41 your savior but that second is who you marry? 26:45 That's right. Now this entire process, 26:48 I have one I call the two year rule. 26:50 I don't think anybody should be 26:53 marrying anybody until they've completed. 26:57 This two year process all these seven stages 27:00 right through to marriage number seven, 27:03 should I believe take two years, not to rush. 27:07 Marriage is too important it is lasting. 27:10 And to rush through this at this stage just 27:13 shouldn't be done, I don't believe that, 27:14 that is God's plan for any single's life. 27:18 Sometimes they say well we're so, 27:19 I'm so old, better you take your time before 27:22 you get married, then live a lifetime of regret. 27:25 Yes, and unfortunately there are many who 27:28 had married too soon and do regret it. 27:30 Nancy, thank you so much for being here 27:32 today, what a joy it has been and I just, 27:35 I know we are gonna have you back to talk 27:38 some more on Smart Love for Singles. 27:40 And now we just want to thank you for 27:43 joining us today as well and please watch 27:46 again next time because we are going 27:47 to invite Nancy back and we're going to be 27:50 talking about God's advice 27:52 for Smart love for singles. Bye, Bye. |
Revised 2014-12-17