Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome to another
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Issues and Answers.
Jesus said in John 14:6:
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I am the way, the truth and
the life and no one comes to
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the Father except through me.
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We have had the privilege of
having a special guest with us
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for seven programs previously
and he is here again today to
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join us with the conclusion of
his research. I am talking about
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Dr. Subodh Pandit from
Hendersonville, North Carolina.
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Dr. Pandit, welcome back. I
am privileged to be back here.
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Well and it is my joy that
you are here because I'm very
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excited that today is going
to be the revealing of your
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conclusion. Let me briefly
explain to our audience that
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Dr. Pandit was born and reared
in India among very diverse
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cultures and religions. He
went on a true heart search, a
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passionate search, to find out
does God exist, is there really
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a god and if so which one
of the gods is it. He examined
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five world religions. We have
been going through over the last
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seven programs how you
weighed out all the evidences.
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Now in our last program we were
looking at the deaths of the
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five founders of the major
religions and we left on the
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point that actually the
circumstances of Jesus' death
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were probably, on your
list anyway, the most horrific
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of any of them and with no real
true honor that was seen by the
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eyes of men anyway. Now what
we're going to be looking at
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today is how did you weigh this
evidence once you had all the
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things in front of you. Since
he is the only one who claimed
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to be alive and propagating
his ministry himself rather than
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passing it on to others,
what was your next question when
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you realized that this
man claims he is alive?
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First of all, I recognized
that it was a stunning and an
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outstanding claim. Nobody else
dared make that kind of a claim.
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One of the first questions that
came to my mind at that point
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was if I was going to evaluate
this then I must differentiate
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between these two. One: The
doctrine and the philosophy of
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the resurrection and; #2: The
factuality of that. The doctrine
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and philosophy is a religious
question. But whether he rose or
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not is not a philosophical
question. It is a question of
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history. So I would now have
to put the rules of historical
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evidence to test here, whether
he rose or not. The first thing
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when you look at literature
of antiquity is you always find
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them very sparse, just a
sentence here and a sentence
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there. My question was, would
there be enough written down
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for me to make any kind
of judgment. Then I read the
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statement by a noted author
and a thinker, Wilbur Smith, had
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these very interesting words.
He said, we know more about the
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circumstances at and surrounding
the death of Jesus than we know
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about any one single person
in all of ancient history.
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Isn't that amazing. But there
are alternative stories about
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his death so what did you find?
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The people do put forth theories
and there are a whole lot of
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theories. I boiled them down
to just two. If the story is
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not true these are the two that
are offered. One is that he did
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not die; he just fainted and in
the coolness of the tomb he was
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revived. The second one:
He died but he did not rise;
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His disciples stole the body.
I had to then question these two
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and scrutinize them. I'd like to
put up on the screen the first
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option that they
gave. Okay please.
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and discuss it.
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Let's look at them one by
one. First was Pilot's cautious
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approval. In Mark 15 it says
pilot marveled that Jesus had
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died so soon. So he called the
centurion, asked him, and these
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were his words: Has he
been dead for some time?
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So the cautiousness of that
approval, not knowing that I
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was going to ask this question
2000 years later, tells me that
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there was something that
Pilot did to ensure it because a
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person who was crucified lived
for at least three days on the
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cross before he died. So a few
hours was a question in Pilot's
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mind too. He asked the centurion
How did the centurion check it
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out? They went to the cross
right there. The Jews wanted
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the bodies brought down but
they couldn't bring them down
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until they had died and so the
other two thieves, they broke
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their legs to hasten their death
When they came to Jesus, he was
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still. But they could not bring
him down because he might be
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alive. So the centurion called
one of the soldiers and said,
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bring your spear and thrust him.
So that even if the crucifixion
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did not kill
him, the spear would.
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The combination of the
blood and the water we know that
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he was speared then in
a major organ, the heart.
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Yes. The question that John
writes here is the two streams
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coming out. Very intriguing
to me because as a physician
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I do order a test known as ESR,
erythrocyte sedimentation rate.
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You take the blood, keep it
still for a period of time and
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then the cells settle down
to the bottom creating the red
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portion and the upper portion
remains clear, which is known
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as a serum and then that test
is referred to in millimeters of
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that clear portion and is
reported to me as a doctor.
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This settling out does not take
place when the blood is moving.
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If you shake it a little bit,
the whole thing becomes red.
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When John saw two streams
coming out it is possible that
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the spear hit at a place where
the blood had been still for
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some time for the cells to
settle out, the serum to be
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by itself and then come out as
two streams. Now we understand
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how it confirmed Pilot's
question, has he been dead for
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some time. When I order the
test, usually I order it as a
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one-hour ESR or a two-hour
ESR for the simple reason it
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takes that much time. So these
three strong evidences pushed
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me to the point where I could
say well he most probably was
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dead. Now, if he did not die
can you think of him lying there
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and then getting up some time,
finding his way to the door,
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huge stone, pushing it open,
breaking the seal and walking
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out limping most likely
because he was crucified...
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And the beating that he took
before he went to the cross.
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against athletic soldiers who
now could not even follow him
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and still today we do not know
where he went; Jew, gentile,
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Roman, nobody knows. That is not
a feasible story to me. So when
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you take all four evidences,
I have to say he really died.
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Now the next one: He died
but the disciples stole him.
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I will put the next slide
on the screen and these are
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the five points we look at.
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This is whether his
body was stolen or not.
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Whether his body was stolen.
Let's look at the first sentence
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that is written down. They
said the body was stolen by the
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disciples while we slept. Those
are the words of the soldiers.
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That sentence itself tells me
it is false because either they
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were asleep or they were awake.
If they were asleep how did
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they know it was the disciples
who stole him. Very good point.
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And if they were awake, how did
they let them because they were
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armed. The disciples, they were
not an army. So to that question
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the sentence itself tells
me that it is a false sentence.
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The second one is the question
of wrapping. No thief goes in
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to wrap clothes and the
description that clothes were
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wrapped inside that tomb tells
me no it couldn't have been
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stolen. Number three: Taking
him out without his clothes.
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Shame was what the Roman empire
heaped on a person who was
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crucified and that's why
they take away their clothes.
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The artists have a loin cloth
on Jesus but actually they are
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completely naked. Can you think
of a disciple who loved his
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master going to a tomb,
unwrapping the clothes and
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taking out his naked body again?
Shaming him just like the Romans
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wanted to do. That is a
psychological obstacle in my
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thinking. No they cannot do
that not in the east where I
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mentioned the guru/follower
relationship is a revered
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relationship. It cannot
occur. Then the question of all
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the soldiers being derelict.
Very unlikely. They were well
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trained. So all of them
slept at the same time? No.
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Plus isn't it true that they
were under those orders if the
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body escaped they
could lose their lives?
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They were specifically placed
there to keep that body in.
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So I would say the commander
of that group would have made
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sure about that. Then the
question of motive. What really
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would we give as a motive
for stealing. Here were Jews who
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loved to honor their heroes.
He was placed in an honorable
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tomb. What were they going to do
taking out the body? And do what
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what with it? They were not as
rich as Joseph of Arimathea who
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gave them a good tomb. What
were they going to do with it?
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And how would they fight against
Rome because Romans had put
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him there? You know,
an excellent point is
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made there because often people
will say his disciples stole the
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body to substantiate his
story that he would rise again.
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But they didn't even believe
or understand it at that time.
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His disciples did not understand
In fact, when Christ appeared
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to them they were shocked. They
were shocked to hear of the news
00:12:08.04\00:12:11.86
of his resurrection. So it was
not like they went out on the
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forefront here and thought
okay we're going to concoct this
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little story. Think
of the absurdity of that
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story. In other words, they had
stolen a dead body. That's what
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we are saying. Really! Can you
think of somebody hiding a bag
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of broken bones and rotting
flesh in his back yard and
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standing out in front of 3000
individuals and calling that bag
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of broken bones the Prince
of Life and stating it with such
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conviction that 3000 individuals
who had asked every question
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on earth, including priests,
would agree that what they are
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saying is right.
Amen. And then also the fact
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that on the first day of the
week when he arose, which was
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on a Sunday, we see that
his disciples are behind locked
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doors. They've barred the doors
for fear of the Jews and they're
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meeting together. They were
so fearful of the Jews I can't
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imagine that they would
have gone and stolen his body.
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Here they are, they're
afraid just to even be in the
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neighborhood and then that's
when Christ appeared to them.
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But to me the most amazing
evidence for the truth of the
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resurrection is the conversion
or the change in the disciples
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lives themselves. They were
so fearful before and suddenly
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they became so bold.
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You are really right. Because
what we have been looking at now
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is are there alternative
stories if that is not true?
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And the alternative stories
do not stand up to scrutiny.
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So now the question is if
that story is true is there any
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evidence and what you have
said is the first big evidence.
00:13:58.77\00:14:04.32
There is nothing that can
explain the change of frightened
00:14:04.36\00:14:11.16
disciples running to hide
and then for no reason now as it
00:14:11.19\00:14:17.84
were standing up and facing
punishment, beatings and even
00:14:17.87\00:14:24.45
death. There is no psychological
reason less than a huge event
00:14:24.48\00:14:30.34
that could have changed
their minds. That is number one.
00:14:30.38\00:14:34.47
Number two is the fact of
the Christian church. Today the
00:14:34.51\00:14:38.57
Christian religion has
spread all over the world.
00:14:38.60\00:14:42.68
You look at the beginnings and
you will have to recognize, and
00:14:42.71\00:14:48.39
all scholars have recognized
the Christian church rises or
00:14:48.42\00:14:53.80
falls with the truth of the
resurrection. If there is no
00:14:53.83\00:14:58.69
resurrection, there is no
Christianity and the Christian
00:14:58.73\00:15:03.37
Church is a historical
phenomenon. Nobody can deny it.
00:15:03.40\00:15:07.97
So if it is stating by itself
that it is standing on such a
00:15:08.01\00:15:11.74
premise we cannot deny the
premise. That is the second
00:15:11.78\00:15:18.54
one. The third is the question
of eyewitnesses. This is
00:15:18.57\00:15:24.48
absolutely unique when it comes
to literature of antiquity.
00:15:24.51\00:15:30.39
There is no literature of
antiquity where anybody has
00:15:30.42\00:15:37.03
written, I saw. So
most of that literature has
00:15:37.06\00:15:42.49
been written in the time span
between when it happened and
00:15:42.53\00:15:46.34
when it was recorded in writing
it was something that was passed
00:15:46.37\00:15:50.41
down in stories
and it wasn't I saw.
00:15:50.45\00:15:52.40
Even if they were there
they were not witnesses. Today
00:15:52.44\00:15:57.74
nobody can ever say that
somebody witnessed for instance
00:15:57.77\00:16:03.00
Muhammad getting the revelation
from the angel Gabriel. I see.
00:16:03.04\00:16:08.43
Nobody has ever witnessed the
enlightenment of Gautama Buddha
00:16:08.46\00:16:13.90
that night. And if you look
at all literature there is not a
00:16:13.93\00:16:20.32
single one out there where
the writer can say I saw except
00:16:20.36\00:16:26.72
this group of writers.
00:16:26.75\00:16:29.14
Of course, we know that
Matthew who wrote the gospel of
00:16:29.17\00:16:33.06
Matthew was an eye witness.
We know that John who wrote the
00:16:33.09\00:16:36.50
gospel of John and then the
three letters of John and the
00:16:36.54\00:16:39.97
Revelation was an eye witness.
We know that Peter was an eye
00:16:40.01\00:16:43.72
witness. These are men who wrote
in the Bible so they were eye
00:16:43.76\00:16:47.44
witnesses who wrote.
Very interestingly one of the
00:16:47.48\00:16:51.20
disciples denied Jesus and
so there was a gap. They wanted
00:16:51.23\00:16:55.49
to fill the 12. If you read the
writings of how they chose and
00:16:55.52\00:16:59.40
what kind of a person they
would chose, the last sentence
00:16:59.43\00:17:03.94
of the description of who they
wanted to choose was he had to
00:17:03.98\00:17:08.45
be an witness of
the resurrection and not
00:17:08.49\00:17:12.39
only were there eye witnesses,
but their words are very
00:17:12.43\00:17:16.28
peculiar and strong. They said
not only have we seen but we
00:17:16.31\00:17:21.42
have heard and our hands have
handled. Empirical evidence.
00:17:21.46\00:17:26.30
That's what I'm going to put
up next on the screen and read
00:17:26.34\00:17:31.11
these words of Wilbur Smith who
saw the same thing and these are
00:17:31.15\00:17:34.07
his words.
00:17:34.11\00:17:46.45
Amen. What more does an
honest open-mind seeker want to
00:18:04.13\00:18:13.56
establish this? But yet there is
one more, the fourth evidence.
00:18:13.60\00:18:17.10
It is called a death-bed
confession or what in other
00:18:17.13\00:18:21.54
countries may be called a dying
declaration. This is a judicial
00:18:21.58\00:18:26.72
term. The principle behind this
is that when a person is facing
00:18:26.75\00:18:31.19
death and is asked to make a
statement he will most probably
00:18:31.23\00:18:35.19
tell the truth because there is
nothing to lose at that point.
00:18:35.23\00:18:40.06
So here suppose we have a
person just gasping his last and
00:18:40.09\00:18:44.50
we ask him who took the money
and he points to say Mr. Brown
00:18:44.53\00:18:49.18
and write it down and he says
also so and so was there in the
00:18:49.21\00:18:53.99
same room and we rush to so and
so and that person is gasping
00:18:54.02\00:18:58.07
his last and we ask him who
took the money and he says yes I
00:18:58.10\00:19:03.04
remember Mr. Brown. If you
have two death-bed confessions
00:19:03.07\00:19:08.48
that are agreeing to the detail
there is hardly a jury in the
00:19:08.51\00:19:13.79
world that will overturn
such a testimony. We have two of
00:19:13.82\00:19:18.20
the strongest testimonies.
Number one was the eye witness,
00:19:18.24\00:19:22.55
that's a judicial term, too. Now
let me give you the traditional
00:19:22.58\00:19:27.34
stories of what happened
to these disciples and we just
00:19:27.37\00:19:31.36
refer to this here. Peter
was crucified upside down. James
00:19:31.39\00:19:34.68
was stoned to death. Matthew
was killed with the sword.
00:19:34.71\00:19:37.84
James the son of Alpheus
was crucified. James the son of
00:19:37.88\00:19:40.94
Zebedee was killed by the sword.
Thaddeus was shot through with
00:19:40.98\00:19:44.28
arrows. Bartholomew was
crucified. Andrew was crucified.
00:19:44.32\00:19:47.92
Phillip was crucified.
Simon the Zealot was crucified.
00:19:47.96\00:19:51.49
Thomas was killed with a spear.
Paul was beheaded. At the point
00:19:51.53\00:19:58.10
of death not a single one ever
recanted their story that they
00:19:58.13\00:20:04.69
saw Jesus alive after he was
dead. There is not just one or
00:20:04.73\00:20:11.25
two, there are 11 deathbed,
dying declarations, the
00:20:11.29\00:20:17.33
strongest evidences that we can
offer or produce in a court of
00:20:17.36\00:20:21.19
law today to state that
the event really took place.
00:20:21.22\00:20:27.70
Others have also looked at
it and I am going to mention two
00:20:27.74\00:20:31.75
of them. I just
wanted to make one point.
00:20:31.78\00:20:33.57
That is a point I've really
never heard anyone bring out,
00:20:33.60\00:20:36.45
but that is a very strong point.
Not only was it the conversion
00:20:36.49\00:20:40.41
and the change in their lives
to see these men who were timid
00:20:40.45\00:20:44.34
and many uneducated men who
came forth so eloquently and
00:20:44.37\00:20:48.98
boldly to proclaim the truth
of God and to proclaim Christ as
00:20:49.02\00:20:53.01
the Messiah, the resurrected
Son of God. But I have never
00:20:53.04\00:20:56.83
heard anyone bring out that
point that at their deathbed
00:20:56.87\00:21:00.47
confessions they never recanted
this even though they all
00:21:00.51\00:21:04.07
suffered a martyr's death.
00:21:04.11\00:21:06.11
So we have two of the strongest
judicial arguments, an eye
00:21:06.15\00:21:13.25
witness and a deathbed
confession. These cannot be
00:21:13.28\00:21:17.43
overturned. I think an
honest seeker must say Wow!
00:21:17.47\00:21:21.58
So others have
examined the same evidence?
00:21:21.62\00:21:23.94
Others have examined. I'm going
to put up one more statement on
00:21:23.97\00:21:26.61
the screen now and read it out.
00:21:26.65\00:21:53.22
This is by Lord Darling, Chief
Justice of England. He should
00:21:53.25\00:21:58.76
know what he is talking
about when he says evidence.
00:21:58.80\00:22:02.69
The second one is another
that I would like to put up.
00:22:02.72\00:22:06.54
And this is a statement by two
people who looked at the same
00:22:06.57\00:22:10.37
things we are looking at
and this is what they said.
00:22:10.41\00:22:27.31
Amen. I love that statement.
So in this wonderful search of
00:22:58.06\00:23:02.11
yours which I know was an
intense search for a good six
00:23:02.14\00:23:06.11
years and you had 20 years of
search total. What are some of
00:23:06.15\00:23:10.31
the conclusions then that all
of these evidences brought you
00:23:10.34\00:23:14.47
to? Let's make
a conclusion right
00:23:14.51\00:23:16.47
here first. He is the only
founder who dared to put his
00:23:16.51\00:23:21.73
reputation to the test by
dying and rising up again.
00:23:21.76\00:23:26.91
Here is the parting of ways at
this point with any other claim
00:23:26.94\00:23:33.47
on the face of this earth.
00:23:33.51\00:23:35.62
We serve a risen
Savior, Amen. Absolutely.
00:23:35.66\00:23:39.89
So now having looked at all
these points, let's look at the
00:23:39.93\00:23:44.22
summary of all the 10 points.
We'll put it up on the screen
00:23:44.25\00:23:48.51
and go through all 10.
00:23:48.54\00:25:27.09
Ten points, one
building on the other.
00:25:27.13\00:25:31.88
These were the 10 questions
that as you went to the writings
00:25:31.91\00:25:36.40
of antiquity that as you
examined these you asked each
00:25:36.44\00:25:39.67
one of the major religions.
You examined their writings
00:25:39.71\00:25:42.87
and you asked these 10 questions
of each. Solidly then what is
00:25:42.91\00:25:49.08
your final
conclusion of your search?
00:25:49.12\00:25:51.54
Let me put it up on the screen
again. The final conclusion of
00:25:51.58\00:25:55.37
my search is that...
00:25:55.40\00:26:11.73
Dr. Pandit, I believe that
God has led you through this
00:26:11.76\00:26:15.95
incredible search so that you
can offer such well-documented
00:26:15.99\00:26:20.50
and well thought out, I mean
Holy Spirit inspired, I believe,
00:26:20.53\00:26:25.01
methods in which you went
through this to examine the
00:26:25.04\00:26:28.17
evidences as to whether or not
God existed and then to look at
00:26:28.20\00:26:33.07
everything about these
five religions, weigh them so
00:26:33.11\00:26:37.21
carefully and come to such a
wonderful conclusion. You know,
00:26:37.25\00:26:41.43
I'm so thankful personally for
having the opportunity to have
00:26:41.47\00:26:45.71
sat here and interviewed
Dr. Pandit for those last eight
00:26:45.75\00:26:49.92
times and it is something that,
Dr. Pandit, I want to thank you
00:26:49.96\00:26:54.07
for coming and sharing this
with us because now I have more
00:26:54.11\00:26:58.15
evidences to offer others
and I believe that I will never
00:26:58.19\00:27:02.92
be dissuaded, that I will
never be deceived in any way.
00:27:02.96\00:27:07.74
Let me tell you the statements
of one person in Tanzania.
00:27:07.78\00:27:12.52
He said thank you. You
have settled me for life.
00:27:12.56\00:27:15.79
Amen and Glory to God. We
want to thank our audience.
00:27:15.83\00:27:19.36
If you would like to get
these programs, there have been
00:27:19.40\00:27:22.86
eight programs from Dr. Pandit.
He also has a ministry called
00:27:22.90\00:27:28.14
Search Seminars International.
He is doing seminars in churches
00:27:28.17\00:27:33.38
and universities so possibly
you might want to contact us
00:27:33.41\00:27:36.83
and get his name and phone
number that he might come and
00:27:36.86\00:27:40.20
visit your church or university.
Thank you so much for joining
00:27:40.24\00:27:44.52
us and I hope you see that
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and
00:27:44.56\00:27:48.81
the life and the
only way to the Father.
00:27:48.84\00:27:51.07
Now may he bless you the
rest of this day. Thank you.
00:27:51.11\00:27:54.73