Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome to
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Issues and Answers.
Today we have a fascinating
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program. We are going to
be examining five of the great
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world religions and looking
at things like as far as the
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founders are concerned, what was
the length of their ministry,
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what were the circumstances
of their birth and their death.
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Actually all of this is part of
a series that we've been doing
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with Dr. Subodh Pandit. Dr.
Pandit I am still struggling
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on the Subodh; I'm getting
it there. But thank you so much.
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This is your seventh
time to be back with us.
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I'm glad to be here. Well
we are so glad that you've
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come up from Hendersonville,
North Carolina to join us.
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We have had such a fascinating
time with Dr. Pandit. Let me
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just share some of the questions
that we've already covered.
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We've talked about his personal
journey to find truth and he
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first began by looking and
asking is there a God, is there
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really evidence for his
existence? and how could he know
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this? Then he examined truth
whether it was all relative,
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what are the various concepts
of truth asking himself do all
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religions end up at the
same place. In other words, the
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concept of pluralism or are
these that claim to be exclusive
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is it possible that they
are real or that these multiple
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claims for exclusivity, which
one is the right one? So we've
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also covered his search
and going back through the
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literatures of antiquity and
their writings and looking at
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the top features of their
writings, if it was supernatural
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and if the writing itself opened
itself to be challenged for
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authenticity. So we've talked
about what is the highest claim
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of the founder for himself,
what's the nature of the message
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and the mission of the founder
and how does the life of the
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founder compare with his
teachings. So today that brings
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us to the point that we are,
in your multiple-year search
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for truth, you were going
in this as a true seeker of the
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truth, an inquirer, not one who
is going to be a skeptic, not
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one who was coming up saying
okay now this is what I believe
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now I'm going to prove it.
But really this was a heartfelt
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search that you want to know
truth. Before we get onto our
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first topic today, please
explain to our audience who
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may not have seen you before
why this was so critical to you,
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why were you questioning the
way in which you were brought
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up? Because I had met others who
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were loving, beautiful people
and they claimed that they were
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such because they believed
in their doctrine or their
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philosophy. So I had to question
whether they were okay or
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whether everyone was okay.
At that point, the big question
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that started me off was you
don't have to look for a god if
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there is no god. So it came
to that basic question at that
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point. From there I went on step
by step until I came to this
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place where it appeared like
Jesus and the Bible were the
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front runners. But I caught
myself and checked myself at
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that point and I said, It
is very possible that I may be
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using studies that were bringing
him to the forefront, they were
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pushing him ahead. So when I
questioned myself, I looked for
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studies and I did them in which
he may not come out in front.
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In fact, that's what
we're going to look at today.
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In the beginning though,
the first few ones that we have
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talked about the message, the
claim that he had for himself,
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the message and mission that
he had as well as if in his life
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actually he lived up to
his message, he's clearly the
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forefront of all the five major
we looked at, Buddhism, Hinduism
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Muslim religion, the Judaic
religion and Christianity.
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So far in these few tests that
we've already examined he was
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in the forefront but today we're
going to be talking about things
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like the length of his ministry
and let's do that comparison
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as compared to these
other four religions.
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Okay. The question at that point
was what is the length of the
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ministry that is involved. When
you come to the Hindus, it's
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difficult to pinpoint. They have
a whole lot of authors spread
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over generations before the
Hindu thought was really made
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into concrete
sense in one sense.
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And over that period though
we've already looked at how
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much the Hindu religion and the
writings changed, so it did not
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stay consistent
over that period of time.
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That's right. So when we
ask the question of the length,
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we'll have to say
many generations. Okay.
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When it comes to the Islamic
faith, Muhammad was given
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intermittent visions and
messages, many of them on
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Mount Hira over a period of
23 years until his death in 632.
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So he ministered for 23 years
at the end of which he had a
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well-structured culture
and society along with armies.
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Oh, I didn't know that.
That's how the Muslim faith
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really spread and became a
Muslim empire soon after his
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death. When it comes to the
Judaic literature, Moses was
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with the group called the
children of Israel for 40 years
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and at the end of that 40 years'
ministry he did have a well
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organized nation, again, along
with armies that would defend
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or be ready for offensive
battle. When you come to
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Buddhism Gautama Buddha started
his ministry at the age of 35
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and completed it at the age of
80 in a town called Cosinarah.
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So there was 45 years in which
he ministered to the people
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around him. Now you come to
Jesus. Look at the numbers that
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we've had before; many
generations, 23 years, 40 years
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and 45 years. This man was
given only 3-1/2 years, a really
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stunning change. Why only 3-1/2
years? Because he was put to
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death. So when you really
compare that he really came out
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last. The picture is not good.
See every founder could look
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back on his long, illustrious
career and have a sense of
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fulfillment that they have
come to this point and now the
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movement that they have started
will go on to even greater
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achievements. No, no, not
in this case. Three-and-a-half
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years and off the scene with
nothing left. He did come out
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last on that point.
You know, it's interesting
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because you're sitting
here saying he came out last.
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Now I understand where you're
coming from, but in one way to
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me that would be one more proof
positive that the power of his
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ministry because of what has
happened after those 3-1/2 years
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of ministry. You are
dead right because not
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only must you look at what there
is and make such a conclusion
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you must ask yourself do any
questions remain. Definitely at
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that point I had many questions.
I'm going to just pose two of
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them. One is how long does
it take for a man to make a
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statement, not to his family
or to his community but to the
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world? How long does it take?
This man was given only 3-1/2
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years. And without things like
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television networks and
radio and transportation. I mean
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this is amazing. The
fact is that that statement
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made in just 3-1/2 years
has stood for 2000 years today.
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The second question I had
was in regards to the same idea
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it is not only that it stayed
for 2000 years like what we
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see today but how come that
statement made in 3-1/2 years
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has the greatest number
of followers in the world?
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Two billion people
profess his name today.
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Amen. I probably am jumping
out of order here, but one
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thing that occurred to me is
that when you were looking at
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all of this did you... Well
I'm going to hold that question.
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Let's look at the next question
because the next test that you
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put him to or the five founders
to was the circumstances of
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their birth. Right.
Okay let's talk about that.
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I left those questions. I
can glibly answer them but I
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preferred to leave those
questions that I had to be in a
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contemplative mood. It's better
to be sometimes reflective
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rather than jump to conclusions.
Right. So the second question
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that we are now discussing is
the circumstances around their
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birth. You look at the
Hindu founders, the sages; very
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honorable birth, good pedigree,
good families that they came
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from. You look at Judaic
literature. Moses was born in
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the tribe of Levi. The
Levites were chosen in their own
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tradition to be a very specific
type of a tribe. They were the
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only ones who dealt with
the tabernacle and the things of
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God. And he was such a beautiful
child that even the daughter of
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the Pharaoh adopted him. His
entry into this world was good.
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When you come to Buddhism,
Gautama Buddha was a prince.
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His original
name was Siddhartha.
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His father Sudhodanah, king.
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His mother Maiah was a queen.
So when he was born there was
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great rejoicing in the land. His
entry into the world was really
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great and good.
Have we left out any?
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Well we've got the Hindu,
the Buddha, Moses. Muslim.
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Muslim. Muhammad was the
son posthumously of Abdullah and
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Aminah. They were of the tribe
of Koresh of the clan of Hasheem
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I mention this because Koresh
tribe was not the greatest and
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the biggest tribe but it
was very important because the
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Koresh tribe had the
jurisdiction over Mecca where
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the most holy site was. So he
was born into a tribe that was
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well respected. Then you come
to this man Jesus and you find
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that he had a biological mother,
Mary, but everybody knew that
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Joseph was not his biological
father. And everybody also knew
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that his mother became pregnant
before she got married. Jesus
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is the only founder to have
a questionable birth. He was
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illegitimately conceived
according to the story.
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He really comes at that point
last. We must not think that
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this is a small point. Sometimes
in liberal cultures we can
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accept it, but in conservative
first century Palestine this was
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a moral stain and we know that
because it dogged his life all
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his life, even when he went
to the temple. You know, these
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professorial, erudite Pharisees
looked down their noses at him
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and said, you want to come
and talk to us about ethics and
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morals? We were not born of
fornication like you. He came
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out last. But every time we
honestly look at it, there are
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also honest questions that we
have to ask. And here is one of
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them. If God really became
incarnate and came down to be
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born of a woman, he would have
to differentiate his birth from
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you and me. One of the ways he
would differentiate would be to
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be born without a father
because if he was born of an
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identifiable father and a mother
then he would be like you and
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me. Right. But the very
fact that he was born of an
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unidentifiable father and
nobody has yet identified that
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particular individual makes
a question in my mind that this
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is not inconsistent with
his claim. Because what if the
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fact that we are unable to
identify the father is because
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the father does not belong
to our realm? The very fact that
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now we call him an illegitimate
child makes me think, hey, he
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just might be the
son of somebody up there.
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And, again, the fulfilling
of prophecy that unto a virgin
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this child would be born. You
know, it amazes me, and I know
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this is not according to what we
discussed but the one thing that
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is hitting me as we are taking
is that if I were God and I
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wanted to send my son to the
earth to bring his message, I
00:14:15.41\00:14:18.98
would probably come with much
pomp and circumstance to show
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people my power. But the
humility of our God to come here
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and take on our nature, to take
on our problems, our temptations
00:14:29.22\00:14:35.77
to live a perfect life with such
humility as we discussed before
00:14:35.80\00:14:42.58
how he actually washed the feet
of his disciples. That sets him
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apart, as you said, from
all other religious leaders.
00:14:49.58\00:14:53.50
But it amazes me to think that
God actually came and took on
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the form of a baby and I
think it's a precious thing.
00:14:59.42\00:15:03.28
But we also must recognize that
there are other religions that
00:15:03.31\00:15:07.92
have incarnation too in which
they have come down. But when
00:15:07.95\00:15:12.11
you look at the overall
picture, this is really amazing.
00:15:12.14\00:15:15.98
Amen. So then now that you've
looked in your study because
00:15:16.01\00:15:20.34
you're trying not to skew this
where you give more weight to
00:15:20.37\00:15:24.14
Jesus being the true one, you're
really trying to stay objective
00:15:24.17\00:15:29.33
in your mind and here he
came out in the forefront in the
00:15:29.36\00:15:32.32
first few tests, but he's last
in the length of ministry test
00:15:32.35\00:15:36.55
and he's on the bottom here as
far as the circumstances of his
00:15:36.58\00:15:40.49
birth, what about the
circumstances of his death?
00:15:40.52\00:15:42.99
Let's look at the religions
again. If you look at the Hindus
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the circumstances were very
filled with loss. The people are
00:15:48.74\00:15:56.22
filled with loss at the death
of any of their sages. They
00:15:56.25\00:15:59.53
mourned over them. They cremated
them with reverence, took their
00:15:59.56\00:16:03.66
ashes and threw them out
into the sacred rivers and then
00:16:03.69\00:16:07.72
mourned over them because
they felt there was a huge loss.
00:16:07.75\00:16:11.79
So that is the picture we get
with the Hindus. When it comes
00:16:11.82\00:16:15.65
to the Islamic faith, Muhammad
died in the lap of his favorite
00:16:15.68\00:16:21.69
wife Isha and the people were
grief stricken and they gave him
00:16:21.72\00:16:28.06
all the respect that they
possibly could. They reverently
00:16:28.09\00:16:31.94
took his body and laid it
to rest. When you look at Moses
00:16:31.97\00:16:36.09
he died in the land of Moab and
the whole nation had a 30-day
00:16:36.12\00:16:42.74
state mourning. They stopped
all activities out of respect
00:16:42.77\00:16:46.69
for him. Buddha, when he died,
he was surrounded in the town of
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Kushinara by his whole host
of followers, doting followers.
00:16:54.78\00:16:59.60
They gathered around his
bed and strained to catch every
00:16:59.63\00:17:03.27
last word because their great
leader was about to go. This is
00:17:03.30\00:17:07.34
a picture of tremendous
obeisance and really almost
00:17:07.37\00:17:12.43
worshipful attitude. When
you come to this man Jesus the
00:17:12.46\00:17:17.47
picture is entirely different;
flung on a cross like a common
00:17:17.50\00:17:23.29
criminal among common criminals
so if we looked at those three
00:17:23.32\00:17:29.80
crosses that day we would
have no difference between those
00:17:29.83\00:17:35.39
three. All were criminals.
That's how we would have looked
00:17:35.42\00:17:39.57
at it. So then
again in your mind as
00:17:39.60\00:17:41.90
you're going through this
now you've got several questions
00:17:41.93\00:17:45.99
where Jesus came to the fore
front and now you've got these
00:17:46.02\00:17:48.54
three areas, the length of his
ministry, the circumstances of
00:17:48.57\00:17:51.37
his birth and death where in
your mind you're saying, okay,
00:17:51.40\00:17:54.97
Jesus is coming out at
the bottom of the list here.
00:17:55.00\00:17:57.34
But what about his post
death or their post death. What
00:17:57.37\00:18:01.89
happened after their deaths?
00:18:01.92\00:18:03.63
One more statement about
his death: He's the only founder
00:18:03.66\00:18:07.41
who claims to be forsaken by
the deity. He said, My God, why
00:18:07.44\00:18:11.76
have you forsaken me. No other
founder mentioned those words.
00:18:11.79\00:18:14.48
So the ending was really quite
difficult. Now when you come to
00:18:14.51\00:18:20.80
the post death scene we look at
all of these founders and every
00:18:20.83\00:18:26.13
one of them had a continuation
of the ministry by some other
00:18:26.16\00:18:31.83
one. For instance, the Jews:
when Moses died Joshua took over
00:18:31.86\00:18:36.87
and he took them to the promised
land. When Hindu sages died
00:18:36.90\00:18:41.51
other sages took the stage.
They wrote further chapters of
00:18:41.54\00:18:45.38
their holy books. When you come
to Gautama Buddha, he founded
00:18:45.41\00:18:50.13
the monasteries and the monks
took over and today we have a
00:18:50.16\00:18:53.71
huge following in many of the
countries. You look at every one
00:18:53.74\00:18:58.92
of those founders you find
that they were laid to rest and
00:18:58.95\00:19:03.97
somebody else took over until
you come to this man and the
00:19:04.00\00:19:09.42
words here are I was dead,
but now I'm alive. This to an
00:19:09.45\00:19:18.85
inquirer is a stunning claim.
How can anybody claim to have
00:19:18.88\00:19:27.36
died and then rise up again.
So am I going to swallow this
00:19:27.39\00:19:34.33
hook, line and sinker
just because somebody said it?
00:19:34.36\00:19:36.51
Now I recognized that I had
already told myself I'm going
00:19:36.54\00:19:41.02
to not challenge their claims.
But again I was faced with a
00:19:41.05\00:19:45.36
difficulty. If you don't
challenge their claim then you
00:19:45.39\00:19:48.48
you got to accept it.
00:19:48.51\00:19:49.60
But how can I accept
this outrageous claim
00:19:49.63\00:19:53.80
of a person saying I rose from
the dead. And yet this record
00:19:53.83\00:19:59.53
is written in the most and best
attested historical writing.
00:19:59.56\00:20:05.51
I was caught. I didn't want
to believe outright. I could not
00:20:05.54\00:20:12.40
dismiss it outright
and so I had to examine it.
00:20:12.43\00:20:16.26
When you say this is the best
and most documented historical
00:20:16.29\00:20:22.47
writing. The others, I forget
which one, there was one where
00:20:22.50\00:20:25.80
there were a thousand years
in between the time that it was
00:20:25.83\00:20:28.88
originally conceived and then
actually the first records of
00:20:28.91\00:20:32.58
its writing; one was 1300 years.
But with the Bible and the New
00:20:32.61\00:20:37.86
Testament we are talking
30-50 years, one generation.
00:20:37.89\00:20:43.09
Then the sheer number or volume
of manuscripts that have been
00:20:43.12\00:20:48.65
I forget what those
numbers were but they were...
00:20:48.68\00:20:51.34
Greek manuscripts, 5664.
Compared to say 8, or 10 or 20,
00:20:51.37\00:20:58.92
for the other religions.
Ah they were the other
00:20:58.95\00:21:01.37
historical books. We
don't want to leave anyone
00:21:01.40\00:21:08.99
with the impression that we are
questioning these things. We are
00:21:09.02\00:21:12.19
talking about a search. The
questions have been answered
00:21:12.22\00:21:15.07
for Dr. Pandit. I just want
to come back to where you were
00:21:15.10\00:21:20.18
at personally in this stage.
I mean, having been brought up
00:21:20.21\00:21:23.40
in a Christian religion
were you finding yourself having
00:21:23.43\00:21:26.93
more questions than
answers. I mean, it's hard me to
00:21:26.96\00:21:31.65
understand how your mind got
to that point where you're just
00:21:31.68\00:21:36.50
saying I've got to know this
or die. And I mean, it was an
00:21:36.53\00:21:39.16
intense, intense
study for you. Absolutely.
00:21:39.19\00:21:41.69
Let me give you a description
even of that point where he came
00:21:41.72\00:21:48.09
out last with the end of life.
I recognized he came out last.
00:21:48.12\00:21:53.44
He was the only founder to die
a shameful, violent death of a
00:21:53.47\00:21:57.73
criminal. But you know, I had
to be also honest. If that was
00:21:57.76\00:22:02.42
the case, it would naturally
bring out questions in my mind.
00:22:02.45\00:22:07.75
For instance, how come all
over the world people in their
00:22:07.78\00:22:15.58
calendars date it to this man?
How come history as it were is
00:22:15.61\00:22:24.52
split in two B.C./A.D. A.D.
Ano Dominum meaning the year
00:22:24.55\00:22:31.91
of our Lord. Are we referring
to just a convict flung onto a
00:22:31.94\00:22:38.28
cross? May we do that? It is a
question. The other questions is
00:22:38.31\00:22:42.82
a description of really how
he died when he said my God why
00:22:42.85\00:22:46.15
have you forsaken me, it matched
the Torah. Because the Torah
00:22:46.18\00:22:51.37
clearly said anybody who
was hung on the cross or hung to
00:22:51.40\00:22:55.72
die (they didn't have the cross
in those days) hung to die was
00:22:55.75\00:22:58.96
under the curse of God. So when
you look at the death of Jesus
00:22:58.99\00:23:02.80
here he was condemned
and sentenced to death by the
00:23:02.83\00:23:06.56
highest judicial authority
in the world, the Roman Empire.
00:23:06.59\00:23:09.36
He was condemned and sentenced
to death by the highest
00:23:09.39\00:23:13.97
religious authority, the
Sanhedrin, and in the Jewish
00:23:14.00\00:23:17.11
mind, considering the Torah,
he was condemned and sentenced
00:23:17.14\00:23:21.23
to death by the highest
authority imaginable, God.
00:23:21.26\00:23:25.71
Then a question will arise.
The first hundreds or thousands
00:23:25.74\00:23:31.61
of people who became Christians
were Jews; some of them were
00:23:31.64\00:23:37.14
priests. They knew the Torah.
They knew everything about the
00:23:37.17\00:23:41.38
Torah and they knew who he was
put on the cross because that
00:23:41.41\00:23:44.21
was the final evidence that
he was under the curse of God.
00:23:44.24\00:23:47.46
My question is how did they
become Christians after knowing
00:23:47.49\00:23:53.71
that he was under the curse
of God? Have we missed something
00:23:53.74\00:23:59.01
in that deck. Are we glossing
over something and that is why
00:23:59.04\00:24:03.76
I asked the next question, what
happened after death? So I was
00:24:03.79\00:24:08.93
going through these things step
by step but leaving the door
00:24:08.96\00:24:12.72
open because the last one
is the most crucial one. It can
00:24:12.75\00:24:17.03
make or break it all.
00:24:17.06\00:24:18.82
So when you're going through
this you are married, you have
00:24:18.85\00:24:25.24
two children. What
did your family think?
00:24:25.27\00:24:28.23
Because it was so intense I
would spend hours, almost like
00:24:28.26\00:24:33.84
I was locked up in my own world.
They were a little apprehensive.
00:24:33.87\00:24:38.80
I still remember my children...
and they were Christian by the
00:24:38.83\00:24:41.94
way, right? They were
going to a Christian church.
00:24:41.97\00:24:43.99
Oh yeah. They would tell my wife
they would say is Dad really
00:24:44.02\00:24:48.40
doing the right thing. What if
he just loses his mind over this
00:24:48.43\00:24:53.71
whole thing? What if there's
no conclusion? Then he'll be
00:24:53.74\00:24:57.75
confused and lost. So they could
see that it was an intense,
00:24:57.78\00:25:03.61
intense struggle. You
know, Dr. Pandit, I believe
00:25:03.64\00:25:07.79
the Lord led you on this because
I believe you were chosen.
00:25:07.82\00:25:13.50
There are very few people who
would make the effort that you
00:25:13.53\00:25:18.50
did to do such a thorough
study. There are probably just a
00:25:18.53\00:25:22.60
handful of people in the world
who have really gone through
00:25:22.63\00:25:24.93
what you've done. I believe
that he did this because we are
00:25:24.96\00:25:30.59
entering last times and it is
so important, not only just to
00:25:30.62\00:25:34.72
have others examine their belief
and make sure that it's right,
00:25:34.75\00:25:39.30
but it's important that we know
that we know that know what we
00:25:39.33\00:25:44.11
believe so that we can
stand when the final test comes.
00:25:44.14\00:25:47.63
That's true. There was an
interesting prayer that I had
00:25:47.66\00:25:51.05
to pray when I was starting out.
I could not pray to Buddha or
00:25:51.08\00:25:56.48
Jesus or Muhammad so I just
made it a generic God of Truth
00:25:56.51\00:26:01.37
just lead me. So you are
wanting something led in the
00:26:01.40\00:26:09.08
direction of truth that
would stand the scrutiny of my
00:26:09.11\00:26:13.96
questioning reasoning mind.
When I prayed that prayer at
00:26:13.99\00:26:19.72
that point I really didn't dream
that I would ever come to this
00:26:19.75\00:26:24.13
position. I was looking for
the proverbial nuggets of gold.
00:26:24.16\00:26:29.13
I didn't dream that I
would hit a gold mine.
00:26:29.16\00:26:32.71
Praise the Lord. Now you are
doing these seminars Come Search
00:26:32.74\00:26:36.26
with Me. Are you going to
put this in a book? I am writing
00:26:36.29\00:26:39.58
a book; it's called Come Search
with Me, Let's Look for God.
00:26:39.61\00:26:43.11
and it is in the writing stage.
I'll be looking for when I
00:26:43.14\00:26:47.79
finish it and get it published.
I'd be very happy to share this.
00:26:47.82\00:26:51.85
Oh well I'm looking forward
to reading that. One thing that
00:26:51.88\00:26:55.06
you're helping me with is that
I have a number of people, some
00:26:55.09\00:26:59.47
friends and just acquaintances
that I've made over the years
00:26:59.50\00:27:04.00
who do kind of address the
pluralism and the idea that
00:27:04.03\00:27:08.82
all religions lead to the
same and they have trouble with
00:27:08.85\00:27:12.05
Christianity saying that it is
the exclusivity of Christianity
00:27:12.08\00:27:16.50
which now I can answer. I didn't
know that before. I knew about
00:27:16.53\00:27:20.53
the Muslims but I didn't know
Buddhism and Hinduism all say
00:27:20.56\00:27:23.53
the same thing, this is
the only way. But you've really
00:27:23.56\00:27:27.45
given me some arrows that I
can put in my quiver to shoot
00:27:27.48\00:27:33.19
down arguments against this
and to really stand firm for
00:27:33.22\00:27:37.27
my faith and have a good
testimony. Thank you so much
00:27:37.30\00:27:40.96
for joining us. We're already
out of time and I didn't realize
00:27:40.99\00:27:43.69
it, it's gone so quickly.
Thank you for joining us
00:27:43.72\00:27:46.91
and we ask that you join us
again. He's coming back next
00:27:46.94\00:27:51.10
time and until then may
the Lord richly bless you
00:27:51.13\00:27:53.92
more than you can ever
ask or think. Thank you.
00:27:53.95\00:27:57.51