Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome again to
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Issues and Answers.
We have been going on a
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fascinating journey with our
guest today. This is his fifth
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program. I want to welcome back
Dr. Subodh Pandit. Dr. Pandit
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thank you so much for
coming. I'm glad to be here.
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Well I'm glad you are here
because the Lord has led you
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on such an interesting journey,
and I'm going to say the Lord
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led because you were a Christian
believer, or you were brought up
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in a Christian home, but you
reached that point in your life
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when it was critical to you,
to your very existence, to know
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what is truth. Something that
Dr. Pandit did was to examine
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the evidence to find out does
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God exist and we've gone
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through a few programs on
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whether or not, and the Lord
led you I believe, by looking at
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all things to see, is he real,
does he exist and if he exists,
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then of the major religions
that he tested which of these
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religions would be true.
Which god should you believe in?
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So we've looked at so many
different aspects and today
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we are going to get into
a little bit deeper on the
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ancient literature that you
actually researched. Now last
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time... Let's go back and tell
us a little bit about the five
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different religions that you
studied their ancient literature
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We looked at the Hindu
literature, the Buddhist
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literature, the Islamic
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literature, the Judaic
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literature and the Christian
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literature. And
your approach to this was
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not as a believer but your
approach to this was to say
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I'm going to forget that I
believe in anything because
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I'm not sure that I do and as
a doctor you took an extremely
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scientific approach to this.
What have been some of your
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conclusions to this point?
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Well I laid them out all
as champions and I would not
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controvert their claims. I just
looked at what they were stating
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to claim and just laid it side
by side and so far we've looked
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at, in this comparison, two
features. One is what kind of
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literature is the writing and in
that we clearly saw that the New
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Testament is easily by far
the most well attested piece of
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ancient literature across the
board, not just religious piece
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of literature. That's amazing.
Number two we saw was their
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top features and I think at that
point we said wow to all of them
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because they were really
amazing, all of them. But when
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it came to the Judeo-Christian
not only was it amazing but it
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was really, we had to say it was
beyond human attainment for a
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supervisor to live 1400 years
supervising the writing of one
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book in which there was
one lead character that was
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described by all
kinds of authors.
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Yes in 66 different books.
Well now the question is do
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these ancient writings of the
five religions you studied, do
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they open themselves
for a test for authenticity?
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That is a very important part of
any search because I cannot go
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into them to experience them.
I must start standing outside
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before I get into any of
these religions and that was the
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position I was taking; before I
get in why should I get in there
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and so one of the questions
was this, very valid, does the
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writing itself open itself to be
tested? When I looked at that,
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the Hindu literature really does
not. The Hindu literature tells
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us to just accept the writings
as they are and don't question
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it. Same with the Buddhist
literature. You must not use
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your reasoning or logic because
there are too many concepts
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there that are beyond logic and
reason, so they say. So there's
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no way you can test these
two religions or their writings.
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In other words, they do not
allow it at all. When you come
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to the Islamic literature, there
is an interesting test. In more
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than one of their verses the
Quran has stated out that it's
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throwing a challenge out and
here is the challenge: Write a
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book or a chapter or a verse
like the Quran. If you can do
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it then there is a
question whether this is really
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supernatural. That was their
test. So when I looked at that
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I said okay, let's try to see
if this test can be met, can we
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take up the challenge? But when
I looked at it very carefully I
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realized there was a big block
and I would like to put up on
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the screen the question that I
had regarding the block and here
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they are. When there is a test
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the questions is what aspect
should be equaled? Is it the
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question of diction, of
philosophy or truth or just
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language. Number two is the
method of comparison. How shall
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we do the comparison after
I have brought a writing to
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to challenge the Quranic writing
Number three: Who will be judge
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Will it be an individual, will
it be a committee, will it be a
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neutral person, will
it be an Islamic nation?
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And the fourth one is what
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language and here is where I ran
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into the most difficult part.
The Muslims believe Arabic to be
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the divine language. So if I
must take up this challenge, I
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must write a book or a chapter
or a verse in Arabic. So when I
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looked at these four I realized
that this does not apply to me
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and it cannot be a
universal challenge.
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So it doesn't open
itself. It really does not.
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If it did, for instance, one
of my questions was who will be
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the judge. They don't say who's
going to be the judge. Then by
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default I should then be
the judge and really if I am the
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judge, I have to be very honest.
I think I have read other
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writings that are
also exquisitely beautiful
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Omar Khayyam, Jalal ben Rhume,
Rabindranath Tagore, Shakespeare
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and even some of the writings
in the Bible, Isaiah, beautiful
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prose. I could not honestly say
that the Quran is so far ahead
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that they beat all the others
hands down. I really could not
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say that. So if I were the judge
the Quran would really not win
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hands down. So
then what about with the
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Bible? So I came
to the Bible and here
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again because of the feature
I had to put the Judeo-Christian
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literature together, the Old and
the New Testaments and there is
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a challenge thrown out. One
of them is in the book of Isaiah
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45th and 46th chapters. It says
if any of you out there claims
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to be a god let him take up this
challenge and this challenge is
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make predictions that will come
true. It's called predictive
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prophecy. That's the challenge.
When I looked at that I realized
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it was an open challenge because
we can go back and see when a
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prediction was made. We can look
at the fulfillment and make our
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own judgment. I'm going to give
you an example of how diverse
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this prophecy and fulfillment
was. For instance there is this
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prophecy about a certain
town and an event in that town.
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Now it was written more than
500 years earlier. The first
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question is you don't even know
whether the town will exist 500
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years later. And then the event
that would happen is that a
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person would be born in that
town. And when you look at the
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fulfillment, the parents
were not even from that town.
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They lived in another
town and they went there only
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specifically for a little
period of time by order of the
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government of Rome and all we
know about the time they spent
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there was just that little bit.
They never went back to that
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town again and yet 500 years
earlier that town was mentioned
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and there would be a birth
in that town. I'm amazed because
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they didn't live there.
And then you consider like the
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prophecies of Daniel where world
history is just laid out and it
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is so amazing to think that...
I mean, the Bible proves itself
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to me because of these.
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The other way is an opposite
way. Here is a little town that
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may not even exist but it does
exist. There's another prophecy
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of a huge town, city, capitol,
which was at its zenith of
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power and the prediction was
that it would not exist any more
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and there'll be no more
inhabitants. That was Jeremiah
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talking about Babylon. It was
the greatest city of the then
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known world. It would not
be inhabited again. I can quote
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to you today from the
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Smithsonian dated June 2003
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where it talks about Babylon.
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They have identified the place
50 miles south of Baghdad in
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Iraq today and the words in
the Smithsonian on that page are
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it is today hot, deserted
and dusty. In other words, this
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prophecy was written about
595 B.C.; 2500 years later still
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uninhabited. It is amazing.
And this is not just one or two.
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I think if I were an honest
inquirer I would be amazed with
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five or ten, but scholars tell
me and, I haven't counted, but
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they tell there are over
600 predictions/fulfillments,
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predictions/fulfillments. Three
hundred of them refer to one
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individual. Of them, 28 took
place in one weekend. How can
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that be just chance? To me, this
challenge that it has thrown out
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has been met by its own writing
completely enough for me to have
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confidence in what it's saying.
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Well when you look at these and
you see as you were doing this
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side-by-side comparison, now
you have eliminated four of the
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religions and saying, on this
basis, that as far as being open
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to a test of authenticity there
is only one and not only is it
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open but it has proven itself
over and over, as you did this
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side-by-side comparison what
were some of the highest claims
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that the founders made for
themselves? That was the next
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question. Now I turned from
the writings to the founders
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themselves and I addressed the
flesh-and-blood founders with
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the next seven questions. Like
you mentioned, the first one was
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what is the highest claim
you make for yourself. Now they
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didn't know I was going to
ask this question and I had
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promised myself that I would
not controvert their claims;
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I would just accept their
claims and so when I asked those
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questions, here's what I found
and I'd like to put it up on
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the screen now, a comparison
of the highest claims and here
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they are. In Hinduism, I had
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mentioned Visvamitra. He is one
of the sages, there are many of
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them and the highest claim they
made for themselves is that of
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being a sage. In Buddhism,
Gautama Buddha claimed to be
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the enlightened, or actually
the super enlightened one.
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In the Islamic tradition,
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Muhammad claimed to be the seal
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of the prophets. They have in
their tradition 124,000 prophets
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but Muhammad was the final,
the seal. In Judaism, Moses was
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called the prophet and the
law giver. Then when it came to
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Christianity, there is a
different claim all together.
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This man is not claiming to
be a prophet or a lawgiver or an
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enlightened person. He is
claiming to be the Son of God,
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meaning the same substance as
God meaning God. To an inquirer
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who is searching this is
a stunning claim. The first
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reaction I had was Jesus,
can you tone down your claim a
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little bit because it's a little
too much. Can you be just like
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the other person because I know
you wear the same clothes as me.
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You eat the same stuff as me.
You go to the same little shop
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working there and how can
you claim to be the Son of God?
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It was had to just swallow it
because the rational mind can't
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accept this easily. But I had
promised myself I would accept
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their claims and here I was
having a difficult time with
00:14:13.83\00:14:17.74
this claim. All the others
I could understand. This one,
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no no. I had to scrutinize it,
then I had to look at it once
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again although I had promised
that I would just take it at
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face value, I was having a hard
time. So I had to use again my
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reasoning, common sense that
I had and I asked what kind of
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people call themselves
God? And what was your answer?
00:14:40.46\00:14:45.23
Well let me put it up on
the screen. There are four types
00:14:45.27\00:14:49.81
of people that I think
might venture to call themselves
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God. Number one: They may be mad
00:14:54.39\00:14:57.30
or deluded. Number two: They may
00:14:57.34\00:15:00.22
be a liar or an imposter.
00:15:00.25\00:15:02.41
Number three a megalomaniac.
00:15:02.44\00:15:04.71
and number four, well, God.
00:15:04.75\00:15:06.95
These are the four. I decided
to look at the writing and see
00:15:06.99\00:15:12.96
whether these statements might
fit this man who was making such
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a claim. So the first thing was,
was he mad or deluded? There
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is a diagnosis people make; it's
called delusions of grandeur.
00:15:24.94\00:15:29.62
You think you are but you're not
like a little girl thinking that
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she is the Queen of England.
You know, that kind of picture.
00:15:34.34\00:15:38.41
I have not found even one single
scholar worth his name who would
00:15:38.45\00:15:43.61
ever call Jesus mad. But I
am going to quote somebody whom
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we very rarely look at to talk
about the mind of Jesus or what
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he thought of Jesus and
this is a statement by Napoleon
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Bonaparte. I would like to put
it on the screen because people
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think of him only as a world
emperor. He was a general of the
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French army, a world conqueror.
Towards the end of his life they
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asked him what about Jesus?
This is what he said when he
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thought about Jesus.
00:16:11.83\00:16:13.14
A world emperor talking
about a peasant from Palestine.
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It's an amazing statement.
Amazing statement. There are
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many others so I could not
call him deluded or mad. Others
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didn't. So was he a liar or an
imposter? And actually that was
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answered quite easily if you
call him a person in his right
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mind because of one particular
incident in his life and that
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was his trial before the
Sanhedrin. They asked the same
00:17:05.38\00:17:09.35
question. Are you the Son of
God? That is the same question
00:17:09.39\00:17:13.28
we are talking about right
now. When they asked him, now we
00:17:13.32\00:17:18.30
must understand Jesus was a
thoroughbred Jew, he knew if
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he answered that he was it would
amount to blasphemy in the minds
00:17:23.28\00:17:27.60
of his judges and he was going
straight to his condemnation.
00:17:27.63\00:17:32.75
In an open trial when you
are bringing evidence, I look at
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people who have been there.
A person will want to establish
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truth to escape the death
sentence. There are others who
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will twist truth and in fact
are willing to state outright
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falsehood just to establish
their innocence so that they
00:17:51.70\00:17:55.66
will not have the death sentence
passed on them. We see this the
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world over. Nobody in his right
mind will cling to a lie to
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bring the death sentence
upon himself. So just by sheer
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reasoning looking at him, he
was in his right mind. How come
00:18:13.58\00:18:17.39
then was he telling a lie
to bring the death sentence on
00:18:17.42\00:18:21.67
himself. No! He had to be
speaking at least what he fully
00:18:21.71\00:18:25.78
believed was the truth because
he died for it. So because of
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that I have to state that he
was not telling a lie. Was he a
00:18:29.51\00:18:33.28
megalomaniac like the cesars
of Rome or the Pharaohs of Egypt
00:18:33.31\00:18:37.01
who called themselves God. There
is one incident where I think
00:18:37.05\00:18:41.42
this also moves away. I come
from the East India. We do wash
00:18:41.46\00:18:45.82
the feet of visitors who come to
our home and if we have servants
00:18:45.86\00:18:49.88
at home, then the servants do
that. There was a time when they
00:18:49.91\00:18:53.90
went to a room to a person's
house and there was no servant
00:18:53.93\00:18:57.39
to wash. He looked around,
everybody else looked around.
00:18:57.43\00:19:03.33
Who would do that menial task?
He got up, took off his outer
00:19:03.37\00:19:08.91
garment, wrapped a towel around
his waist and did the job of a
00:19:08.94\00:19:14.45
common servant washing his
disciples' dirty feet. In the
00:19:14.48\00:19:19.72
east, the relationship between a
leader, called the guru, and the
00:19:19.76\00:19:23.95
follower was called a shisha.
The guru/shisha relationship
00:19:23.99\00:19:28.16
is one of reverence and
awe, never the other way around
00:19:28.20\00:19:32.77
where a leader will do
that. So I could not call him a
00:19:32.80\00:19:36.49
megalomaniac. He would not
do that at all. I had only one
00:19:36.53\00:19:41.66
option left, possibly God.
Tough as it was for my rational,
00:19:41.70\00:19:47.32
reasoning mind to accept, I had
to keep it in my mind, this man
00:19:47.36\00:19:52.94
could possibly be the
Son of God like he claimed.
00:19:52.98\00:19:57.59
This is just so fascinating
to me that you examined this, I
00:19:57.62\00:20:05.73
mean you turned it every which
00:20:05.76\00:20:07.62
way but loose. You looked at it
00:20:07.66\00:20:09.44
upside down and inside
out. Did it help you that as you
00:20:09.48\00:20:14.51
were coming down to this pint
that first you had decided yes
00:20:14.55\00:20:20.24
there has to be a God,
all the evidence proves this?
00:20:20.28\00:20:23.07
And now you are going through
these five writings and you're
00:20:23.10\00:20:28.01
already seeing that four don't
lend themselves to the test of
00:20:28.04\00:20:32.93
authenticity, they're not as
well documented, so when you get
00:20:32.96\00:20:37.47
to this, when you had this idea
that let's look at what they
00:20:37.51\00:20:42.05
claim to be... Our rational mind
can say all right I can accept
00:20:42.09\00:20:46.31
someone as a sage or a prophet
or this or that but for someone
00:20:46.34\00:20:49.79
to claim they had to be the
Son of God now you're suddenly
00:20:49.82\00:20:54.53
taking a stronger scrutiny even
and you came to the conclusion
00:20:54.56\00:20:58.50
that this is one more thing that
I'm not going to say now that
00:20:58.54\00:21:01.80
I've decided to be a Christian
because of this. You've got a
00:21:01.84\00:21:05.93
lot more questions to go still.
But is it safe to say that
00:21:05.96\00:21:09.98
everything else that had proved
itself about the Bible being the
00:21:10.01\00:21:14.69
truth, did that help you to
accept this idea that he was
00:21:14.73\00:21:18.05
the Son of God? Well
actually to be honest, I
00:21:18.08\00:21:23.63
did not want to answer that
right away. I left that for the
00:21:23.66\00:21:27.75
end of the search. The reason
was because I did not want any
00:21:27.79\00:21:31.84
conclusion made to color the
next questions that I had, but
00:21:31.88\00:21:36.58
that was very heavy on my mind
the idea that I should make a
00:21:36.61\00:21:41.33
decision. But I resisted
that idea because when I look at
00:21:41.36\00:21:46.01
medical journals we are taught
to critically examine a journal
00:21:46.05\00:21:52.24
because you can skew numbers,
you can skew ideas and I could
00:21:52.27\00:21:58.50
also skew what I was doing.
I could choose topics in which
00:21:58.53\00:22:03.34
only this person comes out on
top, or only the Bible comes out
00:22:03.37\00:22:08.15
on top. And so I did not
want to color the next one.
00:22:08.18\00:22:12.09
In fact, a very good question
00:22:12.12\00:22:14.55
that you've asked. Later on we
00:22:14.58\00:22:16.94
will look at one or two or
three in which he came out last.
00:22:16.98\00:22:21.42
But that is the search that I
came to. I'm not going to deny
00:22:21.45\00:22:25.70
it. We will come to that and
so the question is really very
00:22:25.73\00:22:29.95
valid. But I did not make
a conclusion at that point.
00:22:29.98\00:22:34.99
I didn't want to.
You know, it's just so
00:22:35.02\00:22:37.60
fascinating to me how you have
been led through this search and
00:22:37.64\00:22:42.94
we do know that the final
decision was that Dr. Pandit
00:22:42.97\00:22:48.15
has accepted Christ as his
Savior and Lord of his life and
00:22:48.19\00:22:52.98
it means a whole lot to me, Dr.
Pandit, that you went through
00:22:53.02\00:22:56.98
such a thorough search in
examining all this evidence and
00:22:57.01\00:23:01.26
it was proven to you beyond a
doubt. Now you have a ministry
00:23:01.30\00:23:05.52
called Search Seminars
International and you go out
00:23:05.55\00:23:12.82
and do seminars Come Search With
Me in which you go over this
00:23:12.86\00:23:16.72
truth. If someone wanted you to
come to their church or just to
00:23:16.75\00:23:20.58
their town, to a neutral
area even to do these seminars,
00:23:20.61\00:23:24.53
how would they contact you?
00:23:24.56\00:23:26.35
Well for one I have really
presented this only once in a
00:23:26.39\00:23:30.67
church. Every time it has
been in a neutral venue where
00:23:30.70\00:23:35.13
anybody can come. Yes they
can contact us at our website
00:23:35.16\00:23:39.52
searchseminarsinternational.org.
You can get a telephone number
00:23:39.56\00:23:48.98
there and you can contact
us. We also have an address that
00:23:49.01\00:23:52.51
is there. You can
use that and contact us.
00:23:52.54\00:23:54.90
So
searchseminarsinternational.org
00:23:54.93\00:24:02.35
searchseminarsinternational.org
That's right.
00:24:02.39\00:24:10.93
So let's kind of recap where we
are to this point of this fifth
00:24:10.97\00:24:15.64
program of ours. Just take
us back briefly and hit some of
00:24:15.67\00:24:20.40
the highlights. The
first question: Is there a
00:24:20.43\00:24:24.27
God? And we looked at
circumstantial evidence,
00:24:24.31\00:24:28.08
logical analysis and statistical
analysis and the evidence was
00:24:28.12\00:24:31.95
too strong. I could deny the
existence of something, somebody
00:24:31.99\00:24:35.97
out there called God. Then we
went to the question of can we
00:24:36.00\00:24:39.73
know, because this question of
truth was there. Some people say
00:24:39.77\00:24:43.47
you cannot know. We went
through the three types of truth
00:24:43.50\00:24:47.51
traditional truth, modern truth
and post modernistic truth.
00:24:47.55\00:24:51.53
We examined them pretty
carefully and we found that
00:24:51.56\00:24:54.65
the traditional truth was still
valid; it was something that we
00:24:54.69\00:24:59.07
can look at because modernism
and postmodernism really did not
00:24:59.11\00:25:03.46
offer us anything regarding
the questions we had. On the
00:25:03.49\00:25:08.58
contrary relativism was really
very impractical. We came then
00:25:08.62\00:25:13.12
to the religions themselves,
there was the questions of
00:25:13.15\00:25:17.12
whether there was just
one religion or many called
00:25:17.15\00:25:20.82
pluralism. Looking at them
carefully again, we found that
00:25:20.86\00:25:24.83
pluralism really is only an
opinion. It does not stand to
00:25:24.86\00:25:28.69
the scrutiny of the written
texts of the major religions,
00:25:28.73\00:25:33.23
so I had to state that there
has to be just one religion
00:25:33.26\00:25:37.70
that was making a legitimate
claim of being the only way.
00:25:37.74\00:25:42.63
So then each one of these five
major religions did claim the
00:25:42.66\00:25:47.21
exclusiveness of saying we are,
right? We're the only way to God
00:25:47.24\00:25:51.76
We're the only way and the
others are not. They emphasize
00:25:51.79\00:25:55.77
that as well. None of them could
I see saying I am a good way and
00:25:55.81\00:26:02.39
the others are an equal
alternative. None whatsoever.
00:26:02.42\00:26:06.62
So then you were faced
with either everyone is wrong or
00:26:06.66\00:26:10.83
everyone is right or...
There is only one that was
00:26:10.86\00:26:14.07
telling the truth. Or
only one that's telling
00:26:14.10\00:26:15.76
the truth. And we
looked through those
00:26:15.79\00:26:18.48
three and found that the most
reasonable one was the last.
00:26:18.52\00:26:22.01
Only one of them was telling the
truth and so we went on a search
00:26:22.04\00:26:26.06
as to which one it is and that's
what we were doing. We are
00:26:26.10\00:26:29.84
asking 10 questions of these
five religions: Hinduism, Islam,
00:26:29.88\00:26:33.59
Buddhism, Judaism and
Christianity. So far we've done
00:26:33.62\00:26:37.61
one question. The first one was
what kind of literature is it.
00:26:37.65\00:26:41.02
The New Testament is the best
attested ancient literature in
00:26:41.06\00:26:45.16
the world. Top feature: The New
Testament, the whole Bible, has
00:26:45.19\00:26:49.17
been written in a manner that is
really amazing. Number three is
00:26:49.20\00:26:53.14
does it open itself to be
tested? Two of them, the Hindu
00:26:53.18\00:26:57.24
and the Buddhist said no. The
Islamic said you can test but
00:26:57.27\00:27:01.71
it turned out to be a vague
test really not a thorough test.
00:27:01.75\00:27:06.44
Predictive prophecy was the test
thrown out by Judeo-Christian
00:27:06.47\00:27:10.75
literature, the Bible, and it
met its own test impressively.
00:27:10.78\00:27:16.39
The last one was the claims of
the individual founders. Jesus
00:27:16.42\00:27:21.99
made the highest claim
of being the Son of God.
00:27:22.03\00:27:24.87
Amen. Thank you so much Dr.
Pandit for joining us again.
00:27:24.91\00:27:29.54
You know I am so excited that
you're going to be coming back
00:27:29.58\00:27:34.18
for a couple more programs.
00:27:34.21\00:27:35.68
It's a pleasure for me to be
here. You know, just to share
00:27:35.71\00:27:40.30
this gives me a thrill that's
deep inside and I love to do it
00:27:40.34\00:27:44.89
over and over
again and I'll be back.
00:27:44.93\00:27:46.93
Praise the Lord. Now you
know that we want you to join us
00:27:46.96\00:27:50.86
again next time as we look
at more of Dr. Pandit's research
00:27:50.89\00:27:54.76
and his wonderful conclusion.
00:27:54.79\00:28:00.20