Participants: C.A. Murray (Host), Jerry Thomas
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000194
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00:30 Welcome to Issues and Answers.
00:31 I'm C.A. Murray and thank you for 00:33 joining us today. My guest is a very 00:36 special friend of some years Jerry Thomas, 00:39 who is currently the Communication Director 00:42 for the Southwestern Union, and I hope I got 00:45 that all in there. He is a prolific author 00:50 we can say. He's written many, many books 00:53 in particular a series of children's books that 00:56 have become very, very popular not only 00:58 in the Adventist Church, but really I think around 01:01 the literary world. He is a quite famous 01:04 children's book author, and of course he also 01:06 undertook a monumental task just sometime ago 01:10 as he rewrote the classic book Desire of Ages 01:13 into modern translation called the Messiah. 01:17 But today we want to talk about an issue 01:19 that comes from his latest book, which is a 01:22 conversation with Jesus, did I get right Jerry? 01:24 Conversation with Jesus. Conversation with Jesus, 01:27 one of the issues that book addresses 01:30 is the issue of guilt, and that's the issue 01:32 we want to tackle today. We want to talk 01:33 about guilt and sort of examine that a little bit, 01:37 find our how to get out from under it 01:39 and to keep it from hindering our Christian 01:41 experience. Jerry good to have you here 01:43 first of all. Thank you. 01:45 And good to see you again, okay, after a few years. 01:47 You're looking fair and fine. 01:53 we're dealing with guilt and one of the statements 01:56 that I see here on, on my outline says that 02:00 many people, if not most people carry around 02:02 a load of guilt. Talk about that little bit and 02:06 how that impacts our Christian experience? 02:09 Well, all of us have regrets from the past 02:11 things that we know we handle badly, 02:13 made bad decisions on, for those of us 02:18 who are parents you can always look back 02:20 and see what you did wrong raising 02:22 your children. And those of us in long term 02:25 relationships you know, you've heard your 02:26 spouse's feelings on more than one occasion. 02:29 And then when you add on the element of how we, 02:31 we know we've disappointed God 02:33 by the way we've acted sometimes 02:36 the road rage, when you're stuck in traffic 02:39 or the, other times when you add your numbers 02:42 just right on that tax return to your advantage. 02:45 The sort of things that we can slip by on, 02:47 but later, maybe late at night the guilt 02:50 comes back. We realize we're not living the life 02:53 God wants us to. And for, for a lot of people, 02:56 a lot of us the guilt becomes a burden that 02:59 we carry and we can't talk about 03:02 it really to people. And we're not sure that God 03:05 can really forgive us we, we don't know 03:07 how to handle the guilty. And I think that adds 03:09 to a lot of people stress. 03:11 If that guilt then is left sort of unresolved, 03:14 what, what can it do to us? 03:16 For a lot of people the unresolved guilt leads 03:20 directly to illness. And some of those illnesses 03:23 are stress related directly whether it's heart 03:26 disease or stroke or even something like cancer 03:31 when you're burdened by guilt and it effects your, 03:36 your ability to resist disease. 03:38 Yeah, less threatening than cancer, 03:42 but I think equally as bad or as debilitating 03:44 maybe just depression. Oh! Yes, yeah, yes. 03:48 Depression and you, you don't have to look 03:50 long on in today's media to see how strongly 03:54 they're pushing the depression medication. 03:56 How many people seem to be looking for anyway, 03:59 yeah, out from under the depression that they feel? 04:01 Yeah, I suspect you could go through your life 04:03 medicated though not well. 04:05 I mean you could feel better, 04:06 you can take an upper, feel pretty good, 04:08 but you haven't really dealt with 04:09 the core problem or the core issue. 04:11 Yeah, yeah, pretty direct, yeah. What, 04:14 what is the chapter in the book specifically that 04:16 deals with this, what's it called? 04:17 In that chapter we're dealing with Jesus 04:21 conversation with the man 04:24 who was paralyzed, whose four friends 04:26 carried him to Jesus, you know the story. 04:28 Oh! Yes. Put the hole in the roof, 04:29 lowered him down, and it's really an odd 04:32 conversation with Jesus because in a sense 04:35 no one speaks but him. We don't have any 04:38 record of the paralyzed man responding to Jesus. 04:41 Yet, Jesus knew what he wanted? 04:42 Oh! Yes. And at the same time in that 04:44 setting he recalls at the end of the story 04:47 the Pharisees, the spies, who heard Jesus say, 04:51 your sins are forgiven, they immediately began 04:53 to think that he was blasphemy, 04:55 and Jesus responds to them, even though 04:57 they hadn't spoken out loud, yes. 04:58 So Jesus is talking to people, but they're not 05:00 saints, yeah, so one sided conversation, 05:02 but at the same time it's Jesus responding to 05:05 people's thoughts and, and prayers in this case. 05:08 And of course we get the understanding 05:11 what is it tougher to do say, take up your bed 05:13 and walk or say thy sins be forgiven, 05:16 and Christ, Christ says, I am both. 05:17 That's right; that's exactly he told. 05:20 And in fact, that's what I'm going to do, yeah. 05:22 I'm going to do almost forgive him and get him 05:24 out of this, out of the stretcher. 05:27 You pose an interesting question, and I think, 05:31 if I'm framing it correctly, 05:32 it's the idea that, if a person could be 05:34 physically whole or guilt free, which one would 05:39 they probably choose? First, why that question 05:42 and then unwrap the answer to that as you, 05:44 as you see it. Well, think about it in your 05:46 own life, if you could, 05:50 if you could really believe that 05:53 you are forgiven, released from guilt, 05:56 from all of the things that you've ever done 05:59 from childhood on. 06:02 What would do to you, how would you feel 06:04 if you could know that that was true? 06:06 Of all the things you regretted saying 06:08 or not saying, if all of the actions you took 06:11 or failed to take, they were quite clean, 06:15 they were forgiven, how would, wouldn't that 06:17 change your whole life, your whole attitude. 06:19 I think for a lot of people who carry a burden 06:22 of guilt that would be such a release to them 06:25 that like this man on the cot, you know, 06:28 he was lowered down there and Jesus said, 06:30 your sins are forgiven and he was happy, yeah. 06:33 He didn't need to jump up and down 06:35 and dance about, he was happy lying there, 06:36 yeah, because he was forgiven, yeah, 06:38 and that's what he really wanted. 06:40 Now the freedom from the disease, the healing, 06:45 now that was completely secondary 06:47 to have. Yeah, sort of the cherry on the, 06:48 on the top of the icing, that's right, 06:49 but the main thing that he was forgiven. 06:51 What he wanted was forgiveness, yeah, yeah, 06:52 and I think, I think for a lot of us, 06:54 if we could choose that we, we might be content 06:57 with the, the tennis elbow or the 06:59 arthritic knee or, but all if we could be released 07:02 from the guilt, if we could feel forgiveness. 07:08 I think it would brighten our days 07:10 and ways that we can hardly imagine. 07:12 Yeah, praise the Lord. Let me just backup 07:13 a little bit, what was the, the energy behind 07:17 writing this book, it seems like it deals with 07:18 a lot of very bedrock personal issues that 07:22 Christians go through in their walk with Christ. 07:24 We're dealing with guilt in particularly, 07:26 but there are a number of things that are very 07:30 interpersonal or personal as, 07:32 as relates us in our relationship with Jesus. 07:35 Where did that that come from? 07:36 It grew out of my, the time I spend reading 07:40 the Desire of Ages, the beautiful story of Jesus 07:43 that Ellen White wrote so long ago. 07:46 When I was doing the modern English adaptation 07:51 of that it, it occurred to me that in so many cases 07:55 in so many ways, when Jesus said the, 08:00 the verses that we cherish, the quotes that 08:02 we love so much, most often He was talking 08:04 to an individual, He was conversing, 08:06 He wasn't preaching behind a pulpit, 08:08 He wasn't standing on the side of a hillside 08:10 talking to thousands. He was conversing 08:13 with an individual. A person in pain, 08:15 a person in need and it occur to me through 08:20 that my own experiences that those of the 08:23 kind of conversations I need. And there are 08:26 so many questions in life that we wish God 08:29 would answer for us. So many things we don't 08:31 understand especially some of the pain 08:33 and the loss that we suffer, if only we could 08:35 take a few minutes' right here and sit down 08:37 across from Jesus, yes. And ask those questions 08:40 and listen to His answers. And that's what this, 08:43 that's what this book crew out from me, 08:45 because we do find those occasions 08:49 in scripture, where are like, like this occasion 08:51 we're talking about the man doesn't actually 08:54 sit down and talk to Jesus about forgiveness, 08:56 but Jesus knows what's on his heart, 08:58 sure, He response to that, sure. 08:59 So, it's no different then, if He would have 09:01 come and sat at Jesus feet just the two 09:04 of them and said, how can I be forgiven 09:07 for the things that I've done? 09:08 There is one thing we overlook sometimes 09:09 in that story of the paralyzed man. 09:13 He wasn't paralyzed because of an accident 09:15 or a disease that just happened to come on him. 09:20 He apparently went out and lived the party 09:22 lifestyle, yeah. He lived it up until he had 09:24 ruined his health. It was all of his fault 09:27 that he is in that situation. 09:29 And that, you know that, that tends to change 09:32 the terrain just a little bit, particularly 09:34 for the suppliant, for the person who is coming 09:36 to Christ because you're saying to yourself 09:39 here I go again you know, 09:40 I've done it hundred times and here and I'm, 09:43 my current condition is not anybody 09:47 plotting against me, I've done this to myself. 09:51 And I got to come dragging to Jesus 09:53 with His load of guilt, and really I think Satan 09:57 would say you can't go, you know, 09:59 should you go again, you did it to yourself. 10:01 Why would you take that to Jesus? 10:02 But I think your thesis is that that's the 10:04 very person that needs to, 10:05 needs to come to Christ, yeah. 10:07 That's right, and that is, and when the man 10:09 came to Jesus he received the forgiveness 10:12 he was looking for it, yeah. Jesus didn't say, 10:14 well I don't know, yeah, you brought this 10:16 on yourself, how many times we can go around 10:18 the same, he just forgave, yeah, released him 10:21 from that guilt and indeed from His sickness. 10:23 Yeah, praise God. You know Jerry, 10:25 I'm glad and I've said this before in looking 10:27 at that is that Jesus never has a bad day you know. 10:30 We serve a God that doesn't have a bad day 10:32 because we all have days when we don't want 10:33 to be bothered. 10:36 Whatever time you come you get the same 10:38 consistent answer, "He that cometh unto me 10:41 I will in no wise, I will in no wise cast out." 10:45 And it's a very beautiful, the story of 10:48 the paralytic in Mark, as I'm looking 10:50 in notes is a, is a, is a good one because it, 10:53 it speaks forgiveness and are needed forgiveness 10:56 even more than physical healing. 11:00 In your own experience have you seen that, 11:03 have you seen that outplayed as far as people 11:09 just being freed through forgiveness 11:10 as apposed to physical healing. 11:14 You know, we often pray for miracles 11:17 for healing, when someone is ill? 11:19 And rightfully so, God in His mercy and does 11:22 reach down and heal those in need, 11:25 but we forget that the act of forgiveness 11:28 is just as miraculous. I do recall an occasion 11:32 when I was pastoring, a man who, who, 11:38 well he was just one of the more difficult people 11:40 in the church, he was also always hard to get 11:43 along with, always had a, a judgmental eye 11:46 on whatever was happening and eventually 11:51 he spoke with me about a terrible burden 11:54 of guilt he had carried for years, for decades, 11:57 concerning his own family. And when I could 12:00 assure him that God forgave him of that, 12:02 if he was repenting, he turned into a 12:05 different person. You know, the kind of a loving 12:08 kindness that flowed out of him after that 12:10 was miraculous. It was no different then 12:13 if he had been paralyzed and lying on a cot, 12:15 God changed his whole life through 12:18 the miracle of forgiveness. 12:19 Yeah, praise God. You know, and there have been 12:22 other times when I've referred to James 12:24 chapter 4 verse 1, which basically asked 12:26 the question where do wars come from, 12:28 where does strife come from? 12:30 And it's rhetorical question because 12:32 he answers it by saying doesn't it come from 12:35 the internal strive. You know, the reason 12:37 you can't get along with your neighbor 12:38 or your husband, your wife is because 12:39 you are really having trouble getting along 12:41 with yourself. And I think a lot of that maybe 12:43 generated by feelings of guilt, 12:46 feelings of inadequacy, things that were done 12:49 that haven't been resolved, you know, 12:52 or taken or taken care of. So, if I can't get 12:54 along with me then I'm gonna have a hard 12:56 time getting along with you, particularly, 12:58 if I see mirrored in you the same problems 13:00 that I'm dealing with myself. Yeah, yeah, 13:03 so guilt can be a very, very destructive thing. 13:06 I like the idea that you propose that forgiving 13:11 is as big a miracle as, as is saying get out 13:15 of that bed and walk. And well Jesus did that. 13:18 We forget that somehow we, we forgiveness 13:21 has become too common to us, 13:22 and so its like okay, I'm sorry for my sins, 13:24 God forgives me and we go around as if you know, 13:27 that was just a normal thing. Well, 13:29 in fact it's a, as much a miracle as somebody 13:32 rising up from a cot, it is nothing less than 13:35 an act of God to release you from the guilt 13:38 because of your, your request 13:41 and your faith in Jesus. 13:42 Yes, and have you ever noticed or seen, 13:45 and this is where we go to Christ and 13:48 we're forgiven. It's as though we lay our 13:50 burden at his feet and then we leave and we pick 13:52 that burden up again and walk with it again. 13:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I suspect as hard as 13:58 it is sometimes to forgive others for a certain 14:01 class of person forgiving yourself is also 14:04 fairly difficult. And it goes back to us not 14:06 really believing that God will forgive, 14:08 will forgive what we've done because you know, 14:11 you can go through the emotions, 14:12 but when we reach the point of actually 14:14 turning it over to God something inside us, 14:16 or beside us on our shoulder it says, you know, 14:19 God can't forgive you for that, yeah. 14:21 You know, He is not gonna do that. And so, 14:23 we pick that burden up again and continue 14:25 to carry it around when all God 14:27 wants us to do is lay it down. 14:29 Define, let's define some terms now Jerry. 14:31 One, in your writing, define for me, forgiveness 14:38 Forgiveness to me is, I would say it's the act 14:45 of taking away the guilt of what you've done. 14:50 God doesn't go back and rewrite the past, 14:52 so that you didn't do anything wrong. 14:54 The memory of it doesn't disappear from our 14:56 minds at this time, yes. But what God takes 15:00 away then is the guilt for having done it. 15:04 And He doesn't hold that guilt against us anymore. 15:07 And if we can forgive ourselves, we don't have 15:09 to hold it against us either, yes, yes. 15:12 Of course with the Christian forgiveness for 15:15 yourself is always tied to your willingness 15:17 to forgive others, we can't, we can't take 15:19 out that part of the equation either, 15:21 because if you can't release your anger, 15:23 your pain towards someone else, 15:26 then I think it's like you said earlier 15:28 you won't ever really forgive yourself. 15:30 Yeah, yeah, we've assumed that everyone 15:33 here knows what we're talking about when 15:35 we use the term guilt. Wrestle with a working 15:39 definition of guilt for me. It is you know, 15:41 it's one of those kind of words that you think 15:43 everybody knows, you just know it is, 15:45 but unpackage that a little bit? 15:48 Well, we're familiar with the legal definition 15:51 of guilt, in that you've committed a crime, 15:54 you're guilty of it judged by your peers 15:56 and therefore you've a penalty that you must pay. 15:59 A guilt being either admission that you have 16:01 committed this crime or evidence that 16:03 you did in spite of your, your testimony. 16:08 I think for us as Christians guilt is about 16:13 we recognize that we've fallen away from 16:15 what God wanted for us. We've made 16:17 bad decisions. We have committed acts of an 16:24 inappropriate nature. We know that we're not 16:26 living the way God wants us to and the guilt 16:29 we feel. Guilt is the, it grows out of what God 16:34 put inside us to steer us toward Him. 16:38 And when we're leaving that path, 16:40 when we're going in another way, 16:41 something inside us hurt, something inside us 16:44 feels wrong. Now, this isn't right for me, 16:46 this isn't the way it should be, 16:48 and the guilt is what we feel. 16:51 Drawing from your, your, your, previous answer, 16:53 can I ask this question then, is there in your own 16:56 mind good guilt and bad guilt 16:58 or is guilt always bad? 17:02 I think we can, we can categorize guilt as good 17:05 and that it, it's a reflection of our 17:08 conscious saying this is not the path I really 17:10 want to be on. I'm going somewhere 17:12 I don't really want to go, I am becoming someone 17:14 I don't really want to be, and guilt sharpens 17:17 us to that, to that acknowledgment, 17:20 this isn't it. But at that point it's, 17:22 it's positive because it's driving you, right, 17:25 to see a solution. It's saying the state 17:28 we're in is not a good state, we need to find a 17:31 better state; we need to do something to get 17:33 out where we are. At what point 17:35 can that become, become bad? 17:38 It becomes bad when we, when we can't 17:41 let go of it. When it, it when we can't lay 17:46 it down at the cross of Jesus and leave it 17:49 with Him, but we find ourselves dragging that 17:52 burden from year to year, yeah. 17:56 And it confuses Christians a lot because 17:58 we very much teach and stress the idea 18:04 of repentance. We must truly be sorry for 18:06 you've done and turn away from that. 18:08 And too many times we've a hard time believing 18:12 repentance has an end you know, 18:14 I did this thing you know, I offended my wife 18:16 in some manner therefore I must repent 18:18 for that everyday now for the rest of our lives, 18:20 yeah, and that's, that's not true repentance. 18:24 Repentance is a moment in time when you 18:27 acknowledge you're wrong, your guilt and then 18:29 you let it go, yeah. And you move forward. 18:31 Yeah, yeah, see just I think you said a very, 18:33 very pointed statement. You repent and then 18:37 you let it go, if you, if you circle that mountain 18:40 forever then you haven't really repented, 18:42 no, repented, and you've really forgiven 18:44 yourself for the act. There is only so many 18:47 mea culpas you know, that you that you can do, 18:49 that's right, after that it's not, 18:50 it's not healthy. The reason I asked that 18:53 former question was because I'm thinking 18:55 of two people who did heinous acts, 18:58 one was Judas, the other was Peter. 19:02 I don't know if Judas' sin was any worse than 19:06 Peter's. Judas pointed him on the crowd you know, 19:11 and got paid for it. Peter denied he ever knew 19:14 him of the two Peter's carrying a lot of 19:18 weight there, yet Judas hanged himself, 19:21 his guilt turned inward. Peter became an incredible 19:26 personage for Jesus. 19:29 Where is the difference guilt wise? 19:32 And I'm kind of throwing that on you, 19:33 you know suddenly. That's alright. 19:37 I think you're, you're very right, 19:39 they both in the last hours of Jesus life, 19:43 they both turned their back on him, 19:45 and surrendered him to the, to the enemy. 19:52 And really, they most both, must both have gone 19:57 out from their thinking that this was the end 20:00 in terms of their relationship to Jesus. 20:01 Judas must surely have thought, 20:04 no doubt he had some feelings of greed 20:07 and avarice as he counted those coins, 20:11 but he must have thought in his mind that 20:13 he was in the end gonna be doing Jesus a favor. 20:15 He was gonna be pushing him to declare 20:18 who He was, precisely, to throw off those changes. 20:20 And when Judas finally realized that that wasn't 20:23 gonna happen, he must have been overwhelmed 20:26 by the guilt of what he had caused. 20:28 But Peter was no different, 20:30 he had sworn only hours before that he would 20:33 never deny Jesus and yet the first time someone 20:36 challenges him, he turns his back on him. 20:38 So, both, they were both of them knowing 20:41 that the relationship they thought they would 20:43 had with Jesus was over, yes. 20:45 Then what they are gonna do with that, yeah, yeah. 20:47 And I think the only difference could have 20:49 been Judas had never let the love of Jesus change 20:56 his heart. Judas had been the kind of person 21:01 who might have behaved properly, 21:03 to could fit into the right crowd, 21:04 who did the right things, said the right things. 21:07 But his heart had never been touched by 21:09 Jesus' love. Where as Peter did many of the 21:12 wrong things, always spoke up too soon, yeah. 21:15 He was forever putting his foot in it. 21:17 But he had felt Jesus love; he had known 21:22 that Jesus cared about him. 21:25 And his heart had responded to that 21:27 and I think that's what, what pulled him back 21:29 to Jesus. He knew that kind of a life changing 21:31 love was there and he wanted to go back and say, 21:34 yeah, and, and turn his life over to it again. 21:36 Yeah, and I think if you hit upon a very 21:39 important point and that's what I was heading 21:41 that Judas and Peter both made mistakes 21:48 for which they had remorse, they both were 21:51 remorseful. One turned it in, the other gave it 21:55 to Jesus. So, that it occurs to me that going 21:59 full circle where we started out that the cure 22:01 for guilt is giving it to Christ, and an 22:06 understanding of the fact that whatever 22:08 you've done, first Jesus is not caught unawares, 22:12 He is not surprised, and if the truth we know 22:17 the devil is not surprised either. 22:18 The only person that maybe surprised 22:19 is you because you don't really know yourself, 22:21 but, but the, the road to healing is paved 22:25 with surrender of whatever it is to Jesus, 22:30 given the knowledge that when you come to him, 22:32 he will know why he's cast you out, 22:33 in regards of what you, what you've done, 22:35 would you, would you agree? 22:36 I would, I would, I picture either of those 22:38 stories, now, Judas or Peter doing what we do 22:42 so many times, or suppose Judas hadn't hanged 22:45 himself, suppose Judas just carried that burden 22:48 of guilt around and every time he met with his 22:50 former associates. Oh! You all know 22:52 what I've done, I've, I've been so guilty I, 22:55 you know, I sold Jesus, I can never be 22:58 forgiven, and he spend his whole life holding 23:00 onto that guilt. He would never have been anyone 23:02 but a miserable person, correct. 23:04 And in same way if Peter had done that, 23:06 if he had assumed he couldn't been forgiven, 23:08 if he had, if he had thrown this guilt over 23:11 his shoulder and carry it the rest of his life, 23:12 he would have always been the one who denied 23:16 Jesus and, you couldn't come back, 23:19 and yet in either case Jesus would 23:22 have forgiven, yeah, when they ask. 23:24 Yeah, it occurs to me Jerry that carrying around 23:28 the load of guilt, one is almost a slap on the 23:31 face of Jesus, because he lives, he exists 23:35 to free you from that. So, to carry it is almost 23:38 to say your sacrifice is not, is not good 23:41 enough for me. And how that must wound 23:43 heart of God is like you've money in the bank, 23:46 and you're living on the street, and a banker 23:49 is chasing you and you're saying, 23:50 listen write a check. You know, you've got, 23:51 you've got money in the bank just write a check, 23:53 and you, I'm not writing that check. 23:55 Well, why not, the money is there. I just, 23:58 I rather live on the street. So, to carry the 24:00 guilt you know despite your tremendous 24:03 sacrifice that Christ has already made. 24:06 I thought that the other day, I was on a plane 24:09 and you know, I put my bag up in the overhead 24:12 storage, and this older woman was there next 24:16 to me struggling with her bag. 24:17 And I offered to help her, put the bag up there 24:20 and she snapped and pushed away and said, 24:23 oh! No, like don't touch my bag, yes, yes, 24:25 I know who you are, but don't touch my stuff. 24:27 And so, here I'm unable to help her at all, 24:29 she struggles and tries to keep put it in place. 24:32 I could have helped I didn't you know, 24:35 I didn't have any intention of injuring 24:36 her back, but because she refused, 24:38 I couldn't help her with her burden at all. 24:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in fact, 24:42 like you said it's, somewhat offensive, 24:44 it's like, I'm not good enough to even touch 24:46 her bag, right, I'm just trying to help you lady, 24:49 yeah that kind of thing. But, yeah, 24:51 I think God must be sometimes feeling in a 24:53 similar way that I could do this, 24:55 but you've to let me. And I see at that point 24:59 were guilt which could be a positive thing becomes 25:03 almost a carcinogenic kind of Satan used thing 25:06 because it keeps you from the source of, 25:07 of your help and your, and your strength. 25:10 And I think you see that a lot in people who carry 25:13 a burden of guilt from childhood often for things 25:16 that were not their fault, yes, whether its the 25:17 divorce of their parents or some other 25:19 unfortunate incident and they, they feel guilty 25:22 and they carry that burden into adulthood 25:24 and they can't ever have normal relationship, 25:27 they can't ever grow and go on because the, 25:29 the guilt is just holding them back, yeah. 25:31 And Satan has turned it into an anchor on 25:33 their souls that just almost won't come loose. 25:36 Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking you know, 25:39 I'm thinking of people in, in my ministry, 25:41 in the time that I pastored, who carried 25:43 around a load of guilt and were never able to 25:46 really free themselves from that. 25:48 And we're also never able to really enjoy the 25:52 salvation experience because you've had 25:54 this cloud that there were always under and 25:58 this fearful expectation because they were 26:00 not free in, in Christ. Yeah, how long, 26:03 how long a chapter is this in the book? 26:05 Oh! It's, I think it's two chapters together 26:10 is probably 12 pages altogether in the book, 26:13 but each of the chapters in the book form as 26:16 some thought questions afterward to make you 26:18 sort of go through these ideas and, 26:21 and think of your own life, because like 26:23 you said at the start we all carry burdens 26:25 of guilt, they may not be tremendous ones, yes, 26:27 we may be able to ignore the most days, 26:29 but they weigh us down in the dark moments 26:32 of our life. And when we're hearing that voice 26:35 of Satan would spring out have no good and, 26:37 never were any good, no in that sense one 26:40 ever you did, whatever that's caused you 26:42 such guilt, yeah. And God wants to take 26:44 that all away; we just have to let it go. 26:47 If someone came to you, you had five minutes to, 26:51 to help them and they say, I'm, 26:53 I'm just feeling down, I know I've done some 26:56 stuff is unresolved and I just can't seem 26:59 to get free. What would your quick course 27:02 one on one be relieve them self from guilt. 27:05 What would your prescription be? 27:11 You know, the quick answer is just to say okay 27:12 let's kneel down right here and we'll ask God 27:15 for forgiveness. And you know, you could do that, 27:18 but chances are the person has tried 27:19 that before. I think you've to go back to what 27:22 we were saying here and that's what I would 27:24 want to do to point out to them. 27:26 That this is a miracle; you're asking God to 27:28 change the laws of time and space for you, 27:31 yeah, to change the nature of your own heart, 27:33 yes. But he would do that, if you're ask him. 27:37 And I think Jerry that's the perfect note for us 27:40 to end on that it is a miracle, 27:43 but it will be done if we ask Jesus. 27:46 He is still in the miracle working business, 27:48 all we've to do is ask and He will do that for us. 27:52 Thank you so very much for being with us. 27:54 And until we are together again, 27:57 may I wish you all the best in Jesus. |
Revised 2014-12-17