Hello again and welcome
to "Issues and Answers."
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I'm C.A. Murray and my guest is
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Pastor Clarence
Schilt, I should say
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Dr. Clarence
Schilt. He is the Pastor
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of the Rockwood
Seventh-Day Adventist
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Church in Portland, Oregon.
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And we've been
discussing and will be
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discussing today word
power, the transforming
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power of scripture.
Doctor, good to have
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you here. Thank
you. Glad to be here.
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The power of the
word, there is power
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we know in the word of the God,
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and there is power when
we read the word of God,
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but you came to
this understanding with
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some baggage, with some history.
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Walk us through that
experience if you will.
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Well, in terms of personally,
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I came from a
very painful home where
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there was two divorces and a
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number of children
and a home where fear
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kind of ruled, we
were terrified of my dad
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and all that kind
of thing. And I lived
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even though I
left home when I was
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in my 20s to go
to school and so on.
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When I was 50, I
was still waking up
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every morning just terrified,
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I mean that's a
bit, maybe that's a
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strong statement,
but waking up just
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wanting to hit
the fetal position and
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pull the covers over and face.
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And now face the day even though
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when I ticked through the day
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there was
nothing to be afraid of.
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One of the lines
I like to use is,
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what gets the
mind gets us and what
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gets us is
reported in our thoughts,
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attitudes,
words and actions, and
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fear had so dominated my mind
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and my emotions for
20 years that it just
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was a monkey on
my back, also anger
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was something that
I lived with a lot in
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my home in terms of dad's anger.
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And so I become
very terrified of anger
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and learned to
relate it very poorly and
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afraid of anger and consequently
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I was afraid to
get angry and afraid
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of other people's
angry. Well, people that don't
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handle their anger,
well they get depressed.
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Yes, yes, yes,
yes. So it is so, so
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much of my life, why I struggled
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with chronic
levels of fear and chronic
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levels of
depression and when all these
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had to do with word power.
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Well, I have got
to ask you a question
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because I know
word power is a solution
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but I want to
just mind the depth of
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your experience
just a little bit because
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you were during
this time a Christian,
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were you not? I was a Christian,
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I was a Pastor.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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And people will say
okay, you're a Pastor.
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Surely you got a
handle on this thing, yeah.
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No, not so. I
had a prayer partner.
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We talk about this, we
pray about it together,
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we labor and pray.
We at times would say,
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is this just your
"Thorn in the flesh"
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Paul had a thron in
the flesh, sure, sure,
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that God did
remove, he said my powers
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made perfect in weakness.
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And we just
finally said to each other
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is God gonna just
allow this somehow,
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is this gonna
be with you to keep
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you dependent on
Him. And you're not gonna
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find healing for
this until Jesus comes.
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I've got to ask you
then so did you feel
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that you're
incomplete, you were not quite
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measuring up, you
were not quite all
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that you could be
in the Lord because
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I've heard preachers
say the kind of thing
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I would say that
you're not functioning
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sort of on all
eight soon, as you're kind
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of just function on forward,
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you have ability
to work on eight.
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Did you feel that in yourself?
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I felt that very much, in fact,
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my fear was quite paralyzing and
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I sometimes, I sometimes say to
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my wife, this sounds
like, this is sort of
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Pastor ego
coming through but I say
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you know I think I
do more, and I think
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maybe I be given
more responsibility
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if fear didn't
paralysis me so much and just
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keep yeah, I didn't
lie, wait nights thinking
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about it, but I
did feel like my fear
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or might be depression were
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very much
hindering and limiting what I
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might do and also
frankly I mean even
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though I was a
Pastor, I'll admit
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that I had what my
prayer partner called
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marshmallow
sins. I had marshmallow
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addictions, I did
a lot of escaping to
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TV or to eating
ice cream in the middle
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of the night, I
had, I had those things
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that I do to try
to escape the pain,
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I mean addictions
are really to escape
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boredom or escape
pain, so anesthetized
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pain. Yes, yes,
yes. And so I was
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experiencing life
negatively in terms
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of those emotions
but also there were
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behavioral things,
especially my addiction
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to TV, which I
felt very bad about it,
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and wasn't
getting victory over it.
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Now a question
then, did these insecurity
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and I'll use that
term, sure, manifest
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themselves in
your dealing with your
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members, with other individuals.
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I mean you had
this escapist going
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and actually
going to television.
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Which really, praise the Lord,
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we can kind of save
a little milk toast,
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that wasn't you know
you didn't take drugs,
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you know put milk
in hand, and praise
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the Lord for
that, sure, but did this
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insecure mindset
manifested itself
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in your dealings
with your members
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or with other individuals?
Yes, I think so in a
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positive way strangely enough is
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I could really
identify with their emotional
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pain and so all of
my ministry why members
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have valued in a sense the way
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I could identify
with them and they'd
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often say you really
preach in the real world,
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you live in the real
world and it's because well,
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I was living
some of those painful
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negative stuff
that they were living.
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Oh! I see. You know and so just
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couldn't stop there and then,
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when I was about 50 years old
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I was complaining to
a friend of mine that
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I was tired of
being just the pop
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psychologist as a
Pastoral counselor. Yes.
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I felt like I wasn't
doing anybody any harm,
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but I was really
helping them, and
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this friend said,
you ought to go to a
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seminar called
Biblical Counseling Foundation,
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and there they
will teach you how to
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use scripture to
counsel people in
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a way not as hammer
but to just help them
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with it, I said fine,
I'm interested because
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I felt like all I was
doing was hand holding
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people through
their pain and not helping
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them gain victory,
and really gain power.
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And so I went to
this seminar and thought
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I would be
learning how to counsel all
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those biblically.
When I got there I found
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out this was a
seminar called Biblical
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Self-Confrontation. This was the
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prerequisite to another seminar
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I was gonna
have to go through on
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how to help others.
So this was going to
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be just all on me
dealing with myself.
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I was self rose. I
was kind of irritated
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frankly. Yeah, yeah.
Well, 'cause I thought
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I was getting into
a different kind of
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program in here.
It came along here,
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go ahead. Well,
you know something
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that popped up in my
mind, is it James 4:1,
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where it says
whence cometh wars,
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whence cometh
you know all of this
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fighting and anything
do they not come from.
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Oh, yeah. The battles
that's going on within
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you, Yes, exactly.
Yeah, so that if you
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can't get along
with yourself it's gonna
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be very difficult
for you to get, exactly.
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Well, At that conference
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after I realized I
wasn't getting along with me
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very well, yes,
two dramatic things
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happened for me
that were totally
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I've had four
where there are dramatic
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growth periods and
this was one of them
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and that is my
attitude towards scripture
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changed. I
realized up until then this
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book really the
Bible was more a text book.
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It was a text book
to prove doctrines,
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to prove
behaviors; it was you know to
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get information,
It was more, it was a
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text book personally
as well as professionally
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since I was a pastor
to prepare Bible studies
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and sermons and all of that.
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But it was more of
an objective information
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place and there
boy, I just realized that
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this is not primarily
an informational book.
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It's a transformational book.
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Oh! Yes, yes, yes,
yes. And I got from that
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conference a
primary thing I got was look
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what food is to the
body, I can't tell you
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what happens when
I eat and food keeps
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me alive. I
don't know what happens
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when scripture, but
I think what food is
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to the body,
scripture is to the mind,
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it something, yeah,
yeah, yeah, something
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dynamic happens. I
think one of the reasons
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I would like to
say this scripture is
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twice inspired,
because the Holy Spirit
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hovered over the
writing of it, yes,
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but then where
do we understand the
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Holy Spirit lives
now, he lives in us.
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Yes, yes,
surely, surely. So when
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I'm saying these
words to you I can't
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go with my words
into your brain and
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affect how they,
impact how they affect you.
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I as the author I
can't get in your head.
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The author of these
words lives inside me
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so when I take
these words the author
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that inspired these
words is there now to
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empower them.
Oh, yes, yeah, yeah.
00:09:09.18\00:09:11.50
So the scripture's
inspired when it was
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written. It's
inspired when it's heard,
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because the author
lives inside our heads,
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that's about as
good as it can get.
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That's like if you
eat good, healthy food
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whatever that has
will be transferred to you.
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Yes, hey, you did my
line, I guess the mind
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gets us, see all
for most of my life,
00:09:26.74\00:09:29.57
all of that
fear, that depression,
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all of that
unhealthy anger was filling me,
00:09:31.89\00:09:36.50
getting me and controlling me,
00:09:36.51\00:09:37.88
driving me to
addiction, limiting
00:09:37.89\00:09:39.52
my productivity,
well, I guess the mind
00:09:39.53\00:09:41.46
gets us and what
gets us is reported
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in our thoughts, attitudes,
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which is feelings,
our words what we say
00:09:46.26\00:09:48.41
and our behaviors,
yes, and I realize hey,
00:09:48.42\00:09:52.40
scripture can change
all of that. Praise God.
00:09:52.41\00:09:54.91
Scripture can change
all of that. Praise God.
00:09:54.92\00:09:55.89
And at that seminar
I went away with love
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and a heart for these words.
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I mean you know when
you have dear friends
00:10:03.17\00:10:05.38
or people, mentors
you really respect,
00:10:05.39\00:10:07.05
you just hang on
their every word.
00:10:07.06\00:10:08.39
Oh, yes. Alright,
well, I went away just
00:10:08.40\00:10:11.72
loving scripture like
I never love scripture
00:10:11.73\00:10:15.09
before, that's
the first thing that
00:10:15.10\00:10:16.69
happened at that seminar.
00:10:16.70\00:10:17.83
The other, that
was an attitude change
00:10:17.84\00:10:20.04
and I noticed that
real growth if I'm gonna
00:10:20.05\00:10:24.16
change I need
two things, I need an
00:10:24.17\00:10:26.74
attitude shift and I
need a behavioral shift.
00:10:26.75\00:10:29.76
Yes, yes. In
fact, for too many years
00:10:29.77\00:10:31.37
I tried to get
married couples when they
00:10:31.38\00:10:33.29
come to me for
counseling to change
00:10:33.30\00:10:35.39
their behavior and
they couldn't do it
00:10:35.40\00:10:37.50
because theirs
hearts, their attitudes hadn't
00:10:37.51\00:10:39.20
changed, you know,
on the other hand once
00:10:39.21\00:10:41.47
their attitudes changed then.
00:10:41.48\00:10:42.97
The behavior
would follow, anyway.
00:10:42.98\00:10:44.22
And so the behavior
that followed was this,
00:10:44.23\00:10:47.26
I learned that the
seminar I'd have to
00:10:47.27\00:10:50.18
go to later was for
actually role playing
00:10:50.19\00:10:55.91
and counseling other couples and
00:10:55.92\00:10:57.87
counseling
situations they set up,
00:10:57.88\00:10:59.59
that they teaches
how to use the Bible.
00:10:59.60\00:11:02.11
At lunch time I
was talking to people
00:11:02.12\00:11:03.95
that were in some of
the advanced seminars
00:11:03.96\00:11:05.61
in other parts of
building where I was
00:11:05.62\00:11:06.96
going to the
beginning seminar and I said,
00:11:06.97\00:11:08.86
what you doing
and they said, well,
00:11:08.87\00:11:10.17
they're setting up
role plays and we're
00:11:10.18\00:11:12.83
counseling people
and I said, how you using
00:11:12.84\00:11:14.21
the Bible they said,
well, we just have to know
00:11:14.22\00:11:16.44
it by memory. I
said, you gotta be kidding,
00:11:16.45\00:11:18.76
Worth is
involved. I said, really,
00:11:18.77\00:11:23.53
he says yes, I
said you mean you just
00:11:23.54\00:11:24.87
need to know the
references so you
00:11:24.88\00:11:26.07
can look up and read it.
00:11:26.08\00:11:27.05
No, no, no, you got
to know it by memory,
00:11:27.06\00:11:29.03
you got to be able to quote it.
00:11:29.04\00:11:30.27
I thought oh,
wow! So I thought okay,
00:11:30.28\00:11:34.13
they sent me
home with a 400 page
00:11:34.14\00:11:36.15
manual with very short chapters
00:11:36.16\00:11:37.88
and a memory
verse at the beginning
00:11:37.89\00:11:39.81
of each of
these chapters, and so
00:11:39.82\00:11:42.53
I thought I
didn't want to look bad.
00:11:42.54\00:11:44.37
I mean you know
pastors, we don't
00:11:44.38\00:11:45.57
wanna look bad,
our ego is at stake.
00:11:45.58\00:11:47.18
So I went home
and I had 3 months
00:11:47.19\00:11:52.82
between that time
and the next seminar.
00:11:52.83\00:11:54.86
And I said, I am
going to memorize these
00:11:54.87\00:11:57.40
verses in this
manner. Now how many verses
00:11:57.41\00:11:59.50
are we talking
about? I have no idea but I
00:11:59.51\00:12:02.86
was memorizing
many verses a week,
00:12:02.87\00:12:05.19
I mean I just needed
to be and I was doing
00:12:05.20\00:12:07.02
it for all the wrong reasons.
00:12:07.03\00:12:08.36
I was doing
just selfishly. Yeah.
00:12:08.37\00:12:10.33
I did not want to look bad and I
00:12:10.34\00:12:12.78
didn't want my
colleagues to look
00:12:12.79\00:12:14.29
bad that I
represented this conference.
00:12:14.30\00:12:16.36
So for all the
wrong reason I had
00:12:16.37\00:12:18.28
memorized scriptures
and I gotten stars for
00:12:18.29\00:12:20.43
it when I was in kindergarten.
00:12:20.44\00:12:21.41
Oh, my goodness.
Earn your ribbons,
00:12:21.42\00:12:22.76
and so for all
the wrong reasons just
00:12:22.77\00:12:24.66
so I wouldn't
look back, I got into
00:12:24.67\00:12:25.86
scriptural memory
and I put it on project
00:12:25.87\00:12:28.01
status you know,
I mean when you're
00:12:28.02\00:12:29.67
painting your
house or remodeling it,
00:12:29.68\00:12:31.46
all your timing and
usually your thoughts
00:12:31.47\00:12:33.29
go into that
except when you got to be
00:12:33.30\00:12:34.62
at work or
sleeping or reading. Right.
00:12:34.63\00:12:36.00
I put, I had
scripture on cards in my pocket,
00:12:36.01\00:12:40.79
on my dash in the car, at home,
00:12:40.80\00:12:43.57
in my office and I
was compulsively anytime
00:12:43.58\00:12:47.89
I had spare time in a
boring meeting, driving,
00:12:47.90\00:12:51.20
waiting in a line somewhere,
00:12:51.21\00:12:53.18
I was memorizing
scripture just doing
00:12:53.19\00:12:57.42
nothing but
memorizing scripture.
00:12:57.43\00:12:58.88
It's interesting
that this epiphany
00:12:58.89\00:13:01.96
if I can use
that term, didn't come
00:13:01.97\00:13:03.19
to you too well
into your ministry.
00:13:03.20\00:13:05.18
Alright, and yeah
I've been a pastor
00:13:05.19\00:13:06.53
for 25 years. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and here
00:13:06.54\00:13:10.36
at camp and
what's shocks me though,
00:13:10.37\00:13:12.94
you know, in
the early days of it
00:13:12.95\00:13:15.26
I was just memorizing scripture
00:13:15.27\00:13:16.94
and preparing for this seminars
00:13:16.95\00:13:18.36
I was going to go to. Yes, yes.
00:13:18.37\00:13:19.82
And a month into the project of
00:13:19.83\00:13:22.16
memorizing I suddenly realized
00:13:22.17\00:13:24.52
I wasn't
watching TV near as much
00:13:24.53\00:13:26.39
and I wasn't even working on it.
00:13:26.40\00:13:28.31
I suddenly realized that I was,
00:13:28.32\00:13:30.23
that I was getting
up and eating ice cream
00:13:30.24\00:13:32.66
much in the middle
of night, which sounds
00:13:32.67\00:13:34.28
like, but anyway I
realized but I realized
00:13:34.29\00:13:38.09
I wasn't waking up
scared in the morning.
00:13:38.10\00:13:39.98
Praise God, praise
God. I mean I could
00:13:39.99\00:13:41.67
not believe it
and without working on
00:13:41.68\00:13:46.29
that so that
internally, emotionally
00:13:46.30\00:13:49.25
God was actually
through the power of his word,
00:13:49.26\00:13:52.40
you know in First Thessalonians
00:13:52.41\00:13:54.56
I think he says,
we also thank God
00:13:54.57\00:13:56.45
continually
because when you receive
00:13:56.46\00:13:58.13
the word of God
which you heard from us,
00:13:58.14\00:13:59.64
Paul said we were the agent,
00:13:59.65\00:14:00.97
you accept it not
as the word of man,
00:14:00.98\00:14:02.97
but it actually
is the word of God
00:14:02.98\00:14:05.82
which is at
work. It works in us.
00:14:05.83\00:14:08.54
That is powerful. I
said, I think scripture
00:14:08.55\00:14:10.70
does to the mind what
food does to the body.
00:14:10.71\00:14:13.00
And He
absolutely transforming me
00:14:13.01\00:14:17.82
in two ways, He was healing my
00:14:17.83\00:14:20.53
inner emotional
baggage, my fear,
00:14:20.54\00:14:23.99
my depression, all
that sort of stuff.
00:14:24.00\00:14:25.86
And externally,
at the same time,
00:14:25.87\00:14:29.64
I was just
sinning less, I mean to me
00:14:29.65\00:14:33.76
watching too much
TV is sin, especially
00:14:33.77\00:14:36.55
watching junk.
Where it gets the mind,
00:14:36.56\00:14:38.22
gets us. Yes. you
know set your minds
00:14:38.23\00:14:40.07
on things above. I
was setting my mind
00:14:40.08\00:14:42.20
on junk TV, you
know, I mean all that
00:14:42.21\00:14:46.45
sort of stuff, so it
was just, I mean we're in
00:14:46.46\00:14:50.65
Isaiah 55, I love
Isaiah 55, it says,
00:14:50.66\00:14:55.05
why spend money
on what is not bread,
00:14:55.06\00:14:56.75
and your labor on
what does not satisfy?
00:14:56.76\00:14:58.58
Yes, yeah. Listen,
listen to me and eat
00:14:58.59\00:15:01.21
what is good and
your soul will delight
00:15:01.22\00:15:05.06
in the riches that
are fair enough eight.
00:15:05.07\00:15:07.75
All of our, the
hassle of life is our inner
00:15:07.76\00:15:10.33
souls are not at
peace. We want something,
00:15:10.34\00:15:12.71
our soul will
delight, give hearing,
00:15:12.72\00:15:15.44
come to me and hear me that your
00:15:15.45\00:15:17.12
soul may live.
And later on he says,
00:15:17.13\00:15:20.84
As the heavens are
higher than the earth,
00:15:20.85\00:15:23.11
so are my ways higher than your
00:15:23.12\00:15:25.28
ways and my
thoughts then your ways
00:15:25.29\00:15:26.76
and then it goes
on as the rain and
00:15:26.77\00:15:28.38
the snow come down from heaven,
00:15:28.39\00:15:29.66
and do not return
to it without watering
00:15:29.67\00:15:31.52
the earth and
making it bud and flourish.
00:15:31.53\00:15:33.51
I live in Portland,
North West is loaded
00:15:33.52\00:15:35.39
with best wheat, we
have great vegetation,
00:15:35.40\00:15:37.13
Alright, so is my
word that goes out from
00:15:37.14\00:15:39.90
my mouth: it will
not return to me empty,
00:15:39.91\00:15:43.18
but will
accomplished what I desire and
00:15:43.19\00:15:44.87
achieve the
purpose for which I said,
00:15:44.88\00:15:46.40
so this clearly
says, look, this isn't just
00:15:46.41\00:15:50.29
information we're
dealing with. Yeah.
00:15:50.30\00:15:52.15
This is Jesus said
in John 6:63, the words
00:15:52.16\00:15:56.60
I've spoken to you are
spirit, and they are life.
00:15:56.61\00:16:00.07
Yes, yeah, yeah.
And yet these words seem
00:16:00.08\00:16:04.33
to stay in an
informational level
00:16:04.34\00:16:06.14
and one of the
things I've struggled with
00:16:06.15\00:16:08.27
a lot is, how we
can move scripture from
00:16:08.28\00:16:10.99
information to transformation.
00:16:11.00\00:16:14.08
Oh, praise God. You
know, one thing pops
00:16:14.09\00:16:15.49
out at me, the
inherent power in the word.
00:16:15.50\00:16:20.14
So that even when
you may contact with
00:16:20.15\00:16:23.61
it for the wrong
reason. The word is
00:16:23.62\00:16:27.19
so powerful
it's going to convert
00:16:27.20\00:16:28.36
you anyway
because your idea was to
00:16:28.37\00:16:31.54
not be
embarrassed, and to do good on a
00:16:31.55\00:16:34.02
test on
examination, I was memorizing
00:16:34.03\00:16:35.62
scripture just so I
look good. Pour it in.
00:16:35.63\00:16:37.46
That's right, but
It's like, it's like eating
00:16:37.47\00:16:39.34
ice cream. You
eat it enough, you're
00:16:39.35\00:16:41.11
gonna put on,
you know that's true.
00:16:41.12\00:16:43.47
You're right. That
you intend to or not.
00:16:43.48\00:16:45.35
Yeah, the principles
of the mind are there,
00:16:45.36\00:16:46.86
so your mind on
things above, you set your
00:16:46.87\00:16:49.79
mind on things
above now there can be
00:16:49.80\00:16:52.20
such a spirit
that it could be only
00:16:52.21\00:16:54.84
mechanical but if
your heart's right
00:16:54.85\00:16:57.18
you search again scripture.
00:16:57.19\00:16:58.86
And the things
are going to change.
00:16:58.87\00:16:59.84
Yes, things are going to change.
00:16:59.85\00:17:00.82
Things are going
to change. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:00.83\00:17:01.80
Now the inside I
ran into that was huge
00:17:01.81\00:17:04.29
for me later
because I thought look just
00:17:04.30\00:17:07.06
memorizing
scripture that's a mechanical
00:17:07.07\00:17:10.12
experience, okay,
and just for those that
00:17:10.13\00:17:13.25
want to get into
scripture memorize
00:17:13.26\00:17:14.54
and say to you, if
you really, if you'll
00:17:14.55\00:17:15.92
call and interested in this.
00:17:15.93\00:17:17.36
The pros have learned
that if you want to read
00:17:17.37\00:17:19.25
and get a text
down thoroughly once
00:17:19.26\00:17:20.74
you can repeat it from memory,
00:17:20.75\00:17:22.22
you should review it
everyday for six weeks,
00:17:22.23\00:17:25.27
every day for six
weeks, and then it
00:17:25.28\00:17:27.34
will really stick with
you, you can lay it aside
00:17:27.35\00:17:29.25
but it can still
just be information
00:17:29.26\00:17:31.27
and I went to a seminar where I
00:17:31.28\00:17:33.64
learned that
when things come to us
00:17:33.65\00:17:36.69
just at word level
about 10 percent sticks hey,
00:17:36.70\00:17:40.84
when we were going
to school and we took
00:17:40.85\00:17:42.85
history tests, when
did you want to take
00:17:42.86\00:17:45.32
the text? Right after
you've done home work.
00:17:45.33\00:17:48.72
When you do your
home work, I'll take
00:17:48.73\00:17:50.49
it next week because
you know it'll all be
00:17:50.50\00:17:52.57
gone, most of it
be gone, see when you
00:17:52.58\00:17:54.53
cut only words just
data 10 percent sticks
00:17:54.54\00:17:58.69
on the other hand,
if words are accompanied
00:17:58.70\00:18:01.84
with pictures whether
we actually see it with
00:18:01.85\00:18:05.36
out eyeballs or
visualize it in the minds eye.
00:18:05.37\00:18:08.07
So sensitizing your
brain, yes, yes, yeah.
00:18:08.08\00:18:09.61
Fifty five percent
of that will stick and
00:18:09.62\00:18:12.73
on the other hand if
the words are accompanied
00:18:12.74\00:18:15.38
with not only
pictures but with feelings,
00:18:15.39\00:18:18.38
emotions, a
hundred percent sticks.
00:18:18.39\00:18:21.03
Now that's why children, why
00:18:21.04\00:18:23.34
everything
impacts them so deeply.
00:18:23.35\00:18:25.03
Good things that happen to them
00:18:25.04\00:18:26.79
because they feel
everything and they
00:18:26.80\00:18:28.63
experience
everything. Well, once we become
00:18:28.64\00:18:32.68
adults in the
church. Wouldn't you agree
00:18:32.69\00:18:36.63
with me that nearly
all of our religious
00:18:36.64\00:18:39.39
activity is words. Yes, surely.
00:18:39.40\00:18:42.62
We go to Bible
classes. You know, we go to
00:18:42.63\00:18:45.76
small groups, we
discuss scripture,
00:18:45.77\00:18:47.80
we discuss it
and hyphenate them.
00:18:47.81\00:18:49.76
Hyphenate item,
but it's words and we
00:18:49.77\00:18:52.29
need to learn,
frankly, what I described
00:18:52.30\00:18:54.89
words,
pictures, feelings is what
00:18:54.90\00:18:57.09
meditation is all
about. Thy words have
00:18:57.10\00:18:58.95
I hid in my
heart, that I might not
00:18:58.96\00:19:00.40
say neither words
of my mouth and the
00:19:00.41\00:19:02.26
mediation in my
heart be pleasing
00:19:02.27\00:19:03.91
in your sight. And
so I've learned that
00:19:03.92\00:19:06.47
what makes a huge
difference is after
00:19:06.48\00:19:08.34
I know those
scriptures and memorize them
00:19:08.35\00:19:11.08
to be able to then
okay visualize them,
00:19:11.09\00:19:14.78
picture them I,
one of my hey as you
00:19:14.79\00:19:17.84
know one of the
monkeys on my back was fear.
00:19:17.85\00:19:20.62
Yes. Alright, I could
just, let me walk this
00:19:20.63\00:19:23.34
through with you. I
could wake up in the
00:19:23.35\00:19:24.86
morning and be
afraid and say Lord help me
00:19:24.87\00:19:28.66
not to be afraid.
Well, it's good that
00:19:28.67\00:19:30.40
I at least prayed about it.
00:19:30.41\00:19:31.49
And now this is
actual problem of fear.
00:19:31.50\00:19:34.35
This is your
afraid of what? Afraid of.
00:19:34.36\00:19:36.29
Just existential
fear. When I spent the
00:19:36.30\00:19:39.42
first 20 years of my
life so afraid of pushing
00:19:39.43\00:19:42.95
my dad's anger buttons and so
00:19:42.96\00:19:45.09
consumed with fear
of him that it just
00:19:45.10\00:19:48.84
gripped me. It was
my, even when there
00:19:48.85\00:19:51.70
was nothing to
be afraid of I check
00:19:51.71\00:19:53.37
through my day. And
yet I feel this anxiety
00:19:53.38\00:19:57.75
and fear. It's
almost a culture of fear.
00:19:57.76\00:19:59.55
It almost is a climate of fear.
00:19:59.56\00:20:00.98
A climate of fear.
That's really true,
00:20:00.99\00:20:02.22
yeah, and so I
could just say Lord,
00:20:02.23\00:20:05.43
help me not be
afraid. I could go
00:20:05.44\00:20:07.10
to First John 4:18
and say, there is no
00:20:07.11\00:20:10.16
fear in love but
perfect love drives out fear,
00:20:10.17\00:20:12.41
sure. And say Lord,
help me to help these
00:20:12.42\00:20:15.34
words to means to
be my message about
00:20:15.35\00:20:17.62
my experience. But
then I could, those
00:20:17.63\00:20:20.16
are words but what if
I took First John 4:18,
00:20:20.17\00:20:23.41
there is no fear in
love but perfect love
00:20:23.42\00:20:24.75
drives out fear, and
I just Jesus is love,
00:20:24.76\00:20:28.22
so what if I became
a mini movie producer,
00:20:28.23\00:20:31.36
and in my mind I
just picture Jesus
00:20:31.37\00:20:34.62
approaching me, holding
his arms out and saying,
00:20:34.63\00:20:37.43
hey Clarence, I
want to give you a hug.
00:20:37.44\00:20:38.70
I like hugs from
men and women, and so
00:20:38.71\00:20:41.90
I in my mind's eye,
a lot of my imagination
00:20:41.91\00:20:45.92
controlled by
scripture to just be embraced
00:20:45.93\00:20:49.29
by Him and more
then that what is so,
00:20:49.30\00:20:52.04
here is my, the
words are, there is no fear
00:20:52.05\00:20:54.64
in love, perfect
love drives out fear.
00:20:54.65\00:20:56.26
The picture is Jesus
is with me, embracing me,
00:20:56.27\00:20:59.49
now I go to the
emotions and I hear
00:20:59.50\00:21:02.46
Jesus saying Clarence,
you don't have to afraid.
00:21:02.47\00:21:04.31
Yeah. Nothing
can separate you for
00:21:04.32\00:21:05.69
my love for Romans. I
won't never leave you,
00:21:05.70\00:21:09.01
nor forsake you and
I stay in that embrace
00:21:09.02\00:21:10.98
and I feel those
feelings until, until
00:21:10.99\00:21:15.52
just all that fear
just washes out me,
00:21:15.53\00:21:19.25
based on His word and
meditating on His word.
00:21:19.26\00:21:22.21
Praise God, yeah.
And He just absolutely
00:21:22.22\00:21:25.80
transformed and
healed me through
00:21:25.81\00:21:28.17
the process of
filling my mind with scripture
00:21:28.18\00:21:31.25
and then learning to
take a way be onwards
00:21:31.26\00:21:35.54
to making, to meditating on it,
00:21:35.55\00:21:37.63
to picturing it,
to experiencing the
00:21:37.64\00:21:40.13
emotions there, so. Praise God.
00:21:40.14\00:21:42.45
Yeah, a very, very
special experience.
00:21:42.46\00:21:44.05
And then slowly
imperceptibly but
00:21:44.06\00:21:46.33
definitely
changes are taking place
00:21:46.34\00:21:48.44
in your life and
in your attitude,
00:21:48.45\00:21:49.75
in your mindset, your
relationship with Christ.
00:21:49.76\00:21:51.46
It really is. And
I think now the name
00:21:51.47\00:21:54.87
of the game is where we just get
00:21:54.88\00:21:57.82
preoccupied with
scripture, and we are
00:21:57.83\00:22:02.82
what we think, see
we are what we think.
00:22:02.83\00:22:06.39
And you think and
we're always thinking,
00:22:06.40\00:22:09.62
and that's what sleeping
and then we're dreaming.
00:22:09.63\00:22:13.29
Yeah, yeah, the brain
never really shuts down.
00:22:13.30\00:22:14.75
But where are
we sleeping and are
00:22:14.76\00:22:16.49
always thinking,
not only sleeping and
00:22:16.50\00:22:19.94
when you think about
it, we're always mediating,
00:22:19.95\00:22:23.38
we're picturing
things. I picture what we would
00:22:23.39\00:22:26.87
like to be with you
even though I didn't
00:22:26.88\00:22:28.39
know what it
would be like. Surely.
00:22:28.40\00:22:29.62
You know I
pictured it and we're either
00:22:29.63\00:22:32.51
replaying things
that happened in the past
00:22:32.52\00:22:34.67
or we're picturing
things are gonna happen.
00:22:34.68\00:22:37.93
We're always how much
are our preoccupations
00:22:37.94\00:22:43.89
with His words. Oh,
that's a important point,
00:22:43.90\00:22:46.68
yeah, yeah. So
that His words and we
00:22:46.69\00:22:51.26
talk sometimes
about dying to self
00:22:51.27\00:22:52.87
and the theme of
dying to self from
00:22:52.88\00:22:54.12
resurrection
power that's why I think
00:22:54.13\00:22:56.13
one of the best
ways to die to self is to
00:22:56.14\00:22:59.11
actually think
about scripture so that
00:22:59.12\00:23:03.84
His thoughts are
controlling me, not
00:23:03.85\00:23:06.43
my own thoughts.
His thoughts you know
00:23:06.44\00:23:08.60
say you're. Paul said
in Second Corinthians 4,
00:23:08.61\00:23:11.66
are lighten to
momentary troubles and that's
00:23:11.67\00:23:17.36
make me a little mad
because I got troubles
00:23:17.37\00:23:20.77
but I don't think
our like momentary.
00:23:20.78\00:23:22.43
But our lighter
momentary troubles
00:23:22.44\00:23:24.82
are achieving for
us and eternal glory
00:23:24.83\00:23:26.79
that far away them
all. So we fix our eyes
00:23:26.80\00:23:30.98
not on what is
seen which are troubles,
00:23:30.99\00:23:34.42
light or heavy, but
I want it unseen for
00:23:34.43\00:23:37.16
what is seen is temporary. Yes.
00:23:37.17\00:23:38.87
but what is unseen is eternal.
00:23:38.88\00:23:40.26
Is eternal, surely,
surely, so that where
00:23:40.27\00:23:42.19
I have hidden my
heart that I might
00:23:42.20\00:23:43.56
not sin against
the, and of course
00:23:43.57\00:23:45.12
we realize that
Christ's weapon of choice
00:23:45.13\00:23:48.83
was the word.
Exactly. Yeah, was the word.
00:23:48.84\00:23:51.57
Exactly, that was
it. The word I mean
00:23:51.58\00:23:55.53
He just kept out
the word, the word,
00:23:55.54\00:23:58.06
the word you know
the word is a living
00:23:58.07\00:23:59.91
and active, sharper
then any double-edged sword,
00:23:59.92\00:24:02.10
it penetrates. I
mean there is a so many
00:24:02.11\00:24:04.38
scriptures on the
power of scripture
00:24:04.39\00:24:07.16
and I mean the longest chapter
00:24:07.17\00:24:09.34
in the Bible
Psalm 119, whoever wrote
00:24:09.35\00:24:12.76
Psalm 119, we're
not sure who wrote it
00:24:12.77\00:24:14.57
but whoever wrote it,
it was totally wrapped up,
00:24:14.58\00:24:17.32
I mean he uses
decrees and commands
00:24:17.33\00:24:19.61
and statutes and laws
and words and he says,
00:24:19.62\00:24:22.71
sweeter than honey and
all that whole chapter,
00:24:22.72\00:24:26.34
the obsession of
the writer there was
00:24:26.35\00:24:29.31
word of God. Yes, praise God.
00:24:29.32\00:24:31.01
Just read word of
God. So it's beginning to
00:24:31.02\00:24:34.23
revolutionized your ministry.
00:24:34.24\00:24:35.62
It sounds like
they made some profound
00:24:35.63\00:24:37.40
and dramatic
changes in your life.
00:24:37.41\00:24:39.73
What about your wife's
life, if I can use that
00:24:39.74\00:24:41.87
right here. Yeah, hey
listen, as she began to,
00:24:41.88\00:24:44.80
she got into it a
little later then I did
00:24:44.81\00:24:48.56
but now while she
carries Bible promises
00:24:48.57\00:24:52.58
book with her so
as the things come up,
00:24:52.59\00:24:54.53
she carries, has
a pack of cards that
00:24:54.54\00:24:56.85
she's laminated
that in a little cubby
00:24:56.86\00:24:58.94
hole in the car, I see those.
00:24:58.95\00:25:00.36
She actually has
the Bible on Tate now.
00:25:00.37\00:25:03.27
And when she's running errands.
00:25:03.28\00:25:04.48
So she's
listening to the word a lot,
00:25:04.49\00:25:06.69
and it's made a
huge I mean sometimes
00:25:06.70\00:25:09.49
she's had
difficult situation where a
00:25:09.50\00:25:12.39
verse of scripture
just slashing to our mind.
00:25:12.40\00:25:15.28
Yes. And just like
that the inner attitudes
00:25:15.29\00:25:19.29
change and she was at peace,
00:25:19.30\00:25:20.59
it was wonderful.
Let me ask this question,
00:25:20.60\00:25:22.26
if I can and
that is where in your
00:25:22.27\00:25:25.18
ministerial experience,
did you see this having
00:25:25.19\00:25:27.60
it's most profound impact?
00:25:27.61\00:25:29.54
It had a
profound impact in my own
00:25:29.55\00:25:33.90
personal
preaching and counseling,
00:25:33.91\00:25:35.92
because it's wonderful to just
00:25:35.93\00:25:38.41
have scriptures
bring to mind and be
00:25:38.42\00:25:40.27
able to quote it. Yes,
yes, yes, it occurs to me.
00:25:40.28\00:25:42.01
So there he did,
plus I was doing enough
00:25:42.02\00:25:47.29
that people
began saying teach us
00:25:47.30\00:25:49.60
how to memorize, and of course,
00:25:49.61\00:25:51.59
I mean whether
they like it or not.
00:25:51.60\00:25:54.00
The members of my
church, they kind of
00:25:54.01\00:25:56.09
probably get tired
of hearing me talk about
00:25:56.10\00:25:58.22
word power, but
about the importance
00:25:58.23\00:26:00.84
of one way or
another getting very wrapped
00:26:00.85\00:26:03.64
up in his word. Yes.
So that, so that whatever
00:26:03.65\00:26:07.11
life served up to
us like Jesus said,
00:26:07.12\00:26:09.40
it is written,
Our impulse more and
00:26:09.41\00:26:11.45
more is to
respond with his words.
00:26:11.46\00:26:13.24
Instead responding
with self, yeah, and
00:26:13.25\00:26:15.85
just our own
selfishness, our own anger,
00:26:15.86\00:26:17.91
irritation, worry
whatever we respond
00:26:17.92\00:26:20.37
with his words and
we let him controls us.
00:26:20.38\00:26:21.94
Yeah, and if the
Holy Spirit is on line
00:26:21.95\00:26:24.51
or it has to sort
of bring youth things
00:26:24.52\00:26:26.96
that you have
not studied you know,
00:26:26.97\00:26:28.28
he can but I
don't think he is behold
00:26:28.29\00:26:31.61
to do so if we don't put it in,
00:26:31.62\00:26:33.47
it's not going
to come out, and we
00:26:33.48\00:26:35.46
just spend that
time with the Lord.
00:26:35.47\00:26:36.86
Yes, I find that
most of what comes to
00:26:36.87\00:26:39.63
mind for me, are
texts that I've looked at
00:26:39.64\00:26:42.76
a lot that I memorized a
lot that I thought about,
00:26:42.77\00:26:44.83
and it is I cannot
tell you how rewarding
00:26:44.84\00:26:48.08
it is personally,
just my own life as well as
00:26:48.09\00:26:51.20
my profession
Pastoral life to just
00:26:51.21\00:26:54.22
over and over
again whatever happens,
00:26:54.23\00:26:58.08
words of scripture
pop into mind. Praise God.
00:26:58.09\00:27:01.24
And they can control
me or I can share them
00:27:01.25\00:27:04.03
with others
sensitively, you have to be very
00:27:04.04\00:27:06.91
careful not to get
just, it's called be
00:27:06.96\00:27:08.23
all you doing as
Bible bashing and
00:27:08.24\00:27:09.65
hammering away, but
it is really winsome
00:27:09.66\00:27:13.18
and healing and
powerful for my own
00:27:13.19\00:27:15.85
life and my
ministry to be able to share
00:27:15.86\00:27:17.65
words that come
to mind. Praise God.
00:27:17.66\00:27:18.99
I suspect you would
commend this to anyone,
00:27:19.00\00:27:21.37
sort of jump start for
the Christian experience.
00:27:21.38\00:27:24.34
It's hard for me not
to push scripture memory
00:27:24.35\00:27:26.32
on everybody, I
confess, and I cautious
00:27:26.33\00:27:30.04
because there are
various ways to get
00:27:30.05\00:27:31.28
wrapped up in
scripture besides memory,
00:27:31.29\00:27:33.18
but getting
preoccupied with His word is one
00:27:33.19\00:27:36.43
very special
experience. Praise God.
00:27:36.44\00:27:38.18
And suspect it
to takes some amount
00:27:38.19\00:27:39.51
of discipline to
do so. Yes, it does.
00:27:39.52\00:27:41.19
Yes, yes. Yes, it
does. 'Cause the Christian
00:27:41.20\00:27:43.60
word is good for us.
But that is christian
00:27:43.61\00:27:44.58
top is good for us, experience.
00:27:44.59\00:27:45.56
Okay, doctor
thank you so very much.
00:27:45.57\00:27:46.90
Thanks for having
me. Praise the Lord,
00:27:46.91\00:27:47.92
your church must be
very, very, very blessed.
00:27:47.93\00:27:49.45
Well, we're having a good time.
00:27:49.46\00:27:50.43
Again may I
comment you to scripture
00:27:50.44\00:27:52.18
reading as a
solution spiritual world
00:27:52.19\00:27:54.53
and a spiritual
jump start for a life,
00:27:54.54\00:27:56.28
until next time God bless you.
00:27:56.29\00:27:58.05
We'll see you again soon.
00:27:58.06\00:27:59.05