Hello welcome to
Issues & Answers.
00:00:29.81\00:00:31.57
I'm C.A. Murray
and I'm so very glad
00:00:31.58\00:00:33.64
that you joined us today.
00:00:33.65\00:00:35.16
My guest is Dr.
Clarence Schilt of the Rockwood
00:00:35.17\00:00:39.24
Seventh-day
Adventist Church in Portland,
00:00:39.25\00:00:41.67
Oregon. And we're
so happy that he's here
00:00:41.68\00:00:43.72
today because the
subject we're going
00:00:43.73\00:00:45.74
to be discussing is
a very, very important
00:00:45.75\00:00:48.39
one for Christians
and their Christian walk
00:00:48.40\00:00:51.24
with Jesus Christ.
We want to talk about
00:00:51.25\00:00:53.38
resurrection power.
Resurrection and power,
00:00:53.39\00:00:57.45
we're gonna
combine those two and see
00:00:57.46\00:00:59.31
how they affect us
and how we can grow in
00:00:59.32\00:01:01.51
Christ Jesus. Good
doctor, good to have
00:01:01.52\00:01:03.02
you here again.
Thank you, glad to be here.
00:01:03.03\00:01:04.69
Two words,
resurrection and power. Yes.
00:01:04.70\00:01:08.59
Combine them, tell
them what they're all about
00:01:08.60\00:01:10.65
and the benefit they
have for the Christians.
00:01:10.66\00:01:12.86
Well it's interesting
that Paul in Ephesians
00:01:12.87\00:01:16.22
when he was praying
for the church he prayed
00:01:16.23\00:01:19.11
for a number of
things in Ephesians 1 and in
00:01:19.12\00:01:21.90
Ephesians 1:19 he
said, I pray that Christ
00:01:21.91\00:01:25.50
incomparable great
power will come for us
00:01:25.51\00:01:28.29
who believe and he
said that power is like
00:01:28.30\00:01:32.23
the working of
his mighty strength
00:01:32.24\00:01:34.09
which he exerted in
Christ when he raised
00:01:34.10\00:01:36.24
him from the dead.
And so he said I want
00:01:36.25\00:01:38.62
you to have power and
this specific kind of power
00:01:38.63\00:01:41.87
I want you to have
is resurrection power.
00:01:41.88\00:01:44.80
Now the word he used
there was the word that
00:01:44.81\00:01:48.08
we use for word
dynamite comes from,
00:01:48.09\00:01:50.10
dealing this, which
is, that was powerful then
00:01:50.11\00:01:52.68
why now, why
dynamite kind of pales in
00:01:52.69\00:01:54.78
comparison to atomic
power. Why in particular
00:01:54.79\00:01:58.28
resurrection power
as apposed to some other
00:01:58.29\00:02:00.69
kinds of power?
Because when we accept Christ
00:02:00.70\00:02:06.19
we say that we want
to surrender ourselves,
00:02:06.20\00:02:09.57
in fact we use the term
we die with Christ, yes.
00:02:09.58\00:02:14.84
And only way you can
live after you've died is
00:02:14.85\00:02:21.09
to be resurrected. So,
we're talking about life
00:02:21.10\00:02:25.43
after death aren't we?
We're talking about life
00:02:25.44\00:02:27.17
after death. Sure. A
story that I love to share,
00:02:27.18\00:02:30.73
there was a little
18 month old girl in
00:02:30.74\00:02:32.83
Northern Canada
who somehow wandered
00:02:32.84\00:02:35.33
out of her house in
the middle of the night
00:02:35.34\00:02:36.91
when it was 40
degrees below zero and as
00:02:36.92\00:02:40.41
you can imagine she
froze to death rather
00:02:40.42\00:02:42.35
quickly and when
her mother found her
00:02:42.36\00:02:44.18
several hours later
she was hard as marble
00:02:44.19\00:02:46.65
and when they took
her the hospital they
00:02:46.66\00:02:49.48
pronounced her dead
but they began warming
00:02:49.49\00:02:52.11
her up and she
came fully back to life,
00:02:52.12\00:02:56.12
didn't even lose
any fingers or toes.
00:02:56.13\00:02:58.59
Incredibly. And
people talked about Erika
00:02:58.60\00:03:01.24
being resurrected.
Yes. I mean if someone
00:03:01.25\00:03:04.22
was on their death
bed with cancer and was
00:03:04.23\00:03:09.11
miraculously
healed without dying we
00:03:09.12\00:03:11.85
wouldn't say
they got resurrected.
00:03:11.86\00:03:14.59
We'd say, we'd say
hey, they were healed.
00:03:14.60\00:03:18.08
But resurrection
power is needed when there
00:03:18.09\00:03:23.45
is death and it's
needed only there.
00:03:23.46\00:03:25.77
Yeah. You think, I
mean when did Lazarus
00:03:25.78\00:03:27.80
need resurrection
power? When he dead,
00:03:27.81\00:03:31.19
after he died. Yeah. Sure, sure.
00:03:31.20\00:03:32.69
The widow's son it
named after he died, yeah.
00:03:32.70\00:03:36.32
I mean even if a
person is hours from death
00:03:36.33\00:03:38.91
on their death
bed resurrection power
00:03:38.92\00:03:41.45
isn't needed till
after they're death.
00:03:41.46\00:03:43.19
So resurrection
power assumes that there
00:03:43.20\00:03:47.03
has been a death, a death sure.
00:03:47.04\00:03:48.89
And Paul says, I
want you to have the
00:03:48.90\00:03:51.07
resurrection power
that Jesus had which
00:03:51.08\00:03:53.54
means he assumes there
is going to be a death.
00:03:53.55\00:03:55.79
Now for those who may
not be quite following
00:03:55.80\00:03:58.54
your train of
thought, yeah. That death is,
00:03:58.55\00:03:59.86
walk us through
what that death is?
00:03:59.87\00:04:01.27
Alright, yeah. The Bible
talks about dying to self.
00:04:01.28\00:04:04.63
Yes, Paul says I've
been crucified with Christ.
00:04:04.64\00:04:08.95
Hey, let's look over
Romans 6 for a minute,
00:04:08.96\00:04:12.39
because Romans 6 in a
sense talks about this
00:04:12.40\00:04:15.52
fairly specifically.
He says in verse 3 of
00:04:15.53\00:04:18.54
Romans 6, don't
you know that all of us
00:04:18.55\00:04:21.09
who were baptized
into Christ Jesus were
00:04:21.10\00:04:23.52
baptized into his
death? We were therefore
00:04:23.53\00:04:27.40
buried with him
through baptism into death,
00:04:27.41\00:04:30.86
it's we actually, it's
like we go into a grave
00:04:30.87\00:04:33.59
only it's a
watery grave, oh yes.
00:04:33.60\00:04:35.61
With him in order
that just as Christ
00:04:35.62\00:04:39.14
was raised from the
dead through the glory
00:04:39.15\00:04:41.44
of the Father, we
too may live a new life.
00:04:41.45\00:04:45.58
Yes. Now when
Erika got resurrected and
00:04:45.59\00:04:48.07
when Lazarus got
resurrected. Yeah.
00:04:48.08\00:04:50.19
They just got back
to physical life they
00:04:50.20\00:04:52.60
had before. The
Bible says that when we get
00:04:52.61\00:04:56.71
resurrected spiritually
from the death of sin
00:04:56.72\00:05:01.26
and I think it's fair
to say the Bible called
00:05:01.27\00:05:04.11
Sin Death. Yes.
When we get resurrected
00:05:04.12\00:05:07.79
from spiritual death
we don't just go back
00:05:07.80\00:05:10.32
to the life we
have. We have a different
00:05:10.33\00:05:12.16
life instead of having
our sinful, selfish life
00:05:12.17\00:05:15.52
that's primarily
ruling us, we have
00:05:15.53\00:05:18.58
resurrection life.
Yeah and I think that's
00:05:18.59\00:05:21.01
an important point. If
after we are resurrected
00:05:21.02\00:05:25.77
we have the same
habits, the same tastes,
00:05:25.78\00:05:28.33
the same life as
before, then we haven't
00:05:28.34\00:05:30.58
really progressed.
We haven't really done
00:05:30.59\00:05:32.03
anything; we are
pretty much the same.
00:05:32.04\00:05:34.98
We maybe buried alive.
Yeah. Yes, very much so.
00:05:34.99\00:05:37.85
However, I was
thinking this could be very
00:05:37.86\00:05:41.20
discouraging to
our watchers. Yeah.
00:05:41.21\00:05:43.30
Because everybody that,
when we become a Christian
00:05:43.31\00:05:47.28
and receive his new
life there is that old self
00:05:47.29\00:05:51.35
life still
clamors for recognition.
00:05:51.36\00:05:54.37
I mean it clamors for
ruling, rule and so on.
00:05:54.38\00:05:57.37
So, the old self life
can be there but it's not
00:05:57.38\00:06:02.90
our primary
master anymore, oh yes.
00:06:02.91\00:06:05.22
I mean the Bible
says sin no longer reigns.
00:06:05.23\00:06:08.24
Yes, yes. As the King
of your life, now Jesus
00:06:08.25\00:06:10.85
is the King of your
life. Yes. And you have
00:06:10.86\00:06:12.95
resurrection or
power, but a line that
00:06:12.96\00:06:15.57
I would like to use a
lot is resurrection power
00:06:15.58\00:06:18.25
comes only to
those who are dead, dead
00:06:18.26\00:06:20.46
to self. Yeah. And
when I don't die to self
00:06:20.47\00:06:23.19
I can't expect
resurrection power
00:06:23.20\00:06:25.63
because it's not
going to compete.
00:06:25.64\00:06:27.52
You see, so, so I
need to constantly stay
00:06:27.53\00:06:30.45
dead to self, if I'm
going to receive resurrection
00:06:30.46\00:06:35.12
power. Now that's a
crucial point, in that
00:06:35.13\00:06:38.98
there maybe
someone who is saying,
00:06:38.99\00:06:40.66
why don't I have
that kind of power.
00:06:40.67\00:06:42.76
Why don't I have
that kind of victory? Why?
00:06:42.77\00:06:45.12
She has it, he has
it I see, others walking
00:06:45.13\00:06:48.55
in that power,
why not me? May be you
00:06:48.56\00:06:50.57
haven't met the
prerequisite which
00:06:50.58\00:06:52.25
is dying to self.
I think, to me that's
00:06:52.26\00:06:54.68
really crucial. I
puzzled for years over highly
00:06:54.69\00:07:00.59
religious
people, devoted people,
00:07:00.60\00:07:02.57
people that had daily
devotions studied their
00:07:02.58\00:07:05.74
scriptural lesson
every week. Went to church,
00:07:05.75\00:07:08.52
paid debt, all of
that and yet seem to have
00:07:08.53\00:07:11.65
so little power and
spiritual joy and peace
00:07:11.66\00:07:16.23
and even
victory over temptation.
00:07:16.24\00:07:18.27
And my conviction is
this that those individuals
00:07:18.28\00:07:22.55
are trying to put on
Christ and overly Christ
00:07:22.56\00:07:26.71
on self that
steal all the life. Aha.
00:07:26.72\00:07:30.01
I mean Paul says,
you know, you were
00:07:30.02\00:07:31.79
talking with him
regarding your former
00:07:31.80\00:07:33.10
way of life to put
off your old self and to
00:07:33.11\00:07:35.97
put on the new
self. Now, I think a full
00:07:35.98\00:07:40.17
Christian
experience needs devotion to
00:07:40.18\00:07:42.48
two journeys, one
is putting on Christ
00:07:42.49\00:07:45.77
through all of the
religious spiritual
00:07:45.78\00:07:47.38
activity but also
putting off self. Yeah.
00:07:47.39\00:07:50.81
Because if I, if
self stays alive, I've got
00:07:50.82\00:07:55.23
the form of religion,
yes, but not the power,
00:07:55.24\00:07:58.06
yes, yes, as the
Jews in Jesus day did,
00:07:58.07\00:08:00.80
you know we've
talked about that before.
00:08:00.81\00:08:02.84
This is both
crucial and exciting.
00:08:02.85\00:08:04.63
In that you are giving
a recipe for true success,
00:08:04.64\00:08:09.71
it's not cosmetology;
it's not just putting on
00:08:09.72\00:08:13.22
coat of pain,
because then you're just a,
00:08:13.23\00:08:14.77
wearing a separate
coat, that's exactly right.
00:08:14.78\00:08:16.96
You know you look
good on the outside
00:08:16.97\00:08:17.96
but inside dead
man's bones. Right.
00:08:17.97\00:08:19.95
So it's not going
to the beauty shop and
00:08:19.96\00:08:21.52
getting a facial and a hairdo.
00:08:21.53\00:08:22.97
It's a change that
begins from within,
00:08:22.98\00:08:26.01
absolutely. Because
if you just put a coat of
00:08:26.02\00:08:29.26
pain on after a
while the rust is gonna
00:08:29.27\00:08:30.85
show through,
exactly. And you're not gonna
00:08:30.86\00:08:32.36
that kind of success
that you have, exactly.
00:08:32.37\00:08:34.87
And certainly you
can't tap into the
00:08:34.88\00:08:36.48
power base that
you should because
00:08:36.49\00:08:38.35
you haven't
cleaned out from inside.
00:08:38.36\00:08:40.49
Oh it was
precisely, yeah in fact I mean
00:08:40.50\00:08:43.39
I think the
reason we are so poor at
00:08:43.40\00:08:46.30
following
through on resolutions.
00:08:46.31\00:08:48.15
New Year's resolutions
or any kind of change,
00:08:48.16\00:08:51.87
it doesn't have to be
New Year's anytime is,
00:08:51.88\00:08:53.73
we're trying to
outwardly force a
00:08:53.74\00:08:57.03
change of
behavior when there has not
00:08:57.04\00:09:00.19
been an inner
change, yes. And so there is
00:09:00.20\00:09:04.94
this dissidence
and tension between
00:09:04.95\00:09:07.07
who I'm inside
and what I'm trying to
00:09:07.08\00:09:09.34
do outwardly.
And where as when I
00:09:09.35\00:09:12.75
inwardly
surrender self and die, yes,
00:09:12.76\00:09:17.73
so that another
power can resurrect me
00:09:17.74\00:09:20.62
and give me a
whole different life.
00:09:20.63\00:09:22.48
And not just the life
I had but Christ's life
00:09:22.49\00:09:25.55
then when I go
after resolutions or
00:09:25.56\00:09:29.35
behavior change
or whatever, why,
00:09:29.36\00:09:31.42
then that new life
is going to empower
00:09:31.43\00:09:35.48
new changes and
there is going to be
00:09:35.49\00:09:37.87
behaviors that
stick, rather than I try it,
00:09:37.88\00:09:40.61
but I can't stay with
it because it's the old
00:09:40.62\00:09:42.45
self trying to do
new behaviors and it
00:09:42.46\00:09:44.13
doesn't mix. It
just doesn't make sense,
00:09:44.14\00:09:45.61
it doesn't
work, it doesn't work.
00:09:45.62\00:09:46.84
It's a strange kind
of thing Yeah, yeah.
00:09:46.85\00:09:48.01
Now I want you just
stay and maybe believe
00:09:48.02\00:09:49.71
lead down a different
path, this is what occurs
00:09:49.72\00:09:51.24
to me. There are
those who will tell you
00:09:51.25\00:09:54.29
because you're
saying that victorious
00:09:54.30\00:09:58.42
resurrection
power comes on the heels
00:09:58.43\00:10:01.90
of the death to self. Correct.
00:10:01.91\00:10:03.80
But I want you
to wrestle with just
00:10:03.81\00:10:05.61
for a moment that
the idea, espoused by
00:10:05.62\00:10:08.69
some that when you
give your life to Christ
00:10:08.70\00:10:11.80
everything becomes
for want of a better
00:10:11.81\00:10:14.81
term Hunky-dory,
alright. Everything
00:10:14.82\00:10:16.16
is fine, correct;
there is no battle to fight
00:10:16.17\00:10:18.51
anymore. Yes. And I
think you're not saying that.
00:10:18.52\00:10:21.24
No. You're
saying something totally
00:10:21.25\00:10:22.22
different. Well yeah
I mean there will be a
00:10:22.23\00:10:23.68
huge battle to fight.
I mean Paul talks about
00:10:23.69\00:10:27.58
put off your old
self, do not be confirmed,
00:10:27.59\00:10:29.61
but be transformed by
the renewing of your mind.
00:10:29.62\00:10:31.84
And Paul in Romans 7
talked about, he said
00:10:31.85\00:10:35.44
look something is
going on, I don't do what
00:10:35.45\00:10:39.20
I wanna do, yes. And I
do what I don't wanna do.
00:10:39.21\00:10:42.59
But interestingly
enough he says it's no longer
00:10:42.60\00:10:46.18
I who do it, yeah,
but sin living in me,
00:10:46.19\00:10:48.54
very strange
words. I also, so maybe
00:10:48.55\00:10:51.70
I'm not responsible
after all, I'm a victim
00:10:51.71\00:10:53.90
but you know the
devil me do it or something,
00:10:53.91\00:10:56.25
but I think the
reason he is saying that is
00:10:56.26\00:10:58.46
he is saying once
I became a Christian,
00:10:58.47\00:11:00.56
my primary identity is Christ.
00:11:00.57\00:11:04.83
My primary
authority my trained primary
00:11:04.84\00:11:07.72
master is Christ,
however since living
00:11:07.73\00:11:11.63
in me sometimes I
talk about a street orphan,
00:11:11.64\00:11:14.39
a kid who has no home, no name,
00:11:14.40\00:11:17.02
no base whatever
and he is adopted, yes.
00:11:17.03\00:11:20.45
Given a home,
given name, given a roof
00:11:20.46\00:11:22.49
over his head, given
clothes, security, food.
00:11:22.50\00:11:24.86
A week after he is
adopted will all of
00:11:24.87\00:11:28.40
his street life be
gone? No. Probably not,
00:11:28.41\00:11:31.85
probably not,
probably not, yeah,
00:11:31.86\00:11:33.39
but now that's secondary because
00:11:33.40\00:11:36.22
his primary
identity is his new name,
00:11:36.23\00:11:39.88
his new family,
his new security,
00:11:39.89\00:11:41.52
his new base, his
new power in the sense,
00:11:41.53\00:11:43.66
but there is
still street life and we
00:11:43.67\00:11:45.87
spend all of our
lives trying to let the
00:11:45.88\00:11:49.46
new identity and
resurrection power
00:11:49.47\00:11:51.39
in us just more
and more lay aside and
00:11:51.40\00:11:54.40
just put to
death, praise Lord sure,
00:11:54.41\00:11:55.78
our street life. But
you know the battle with
00:11:55.79\00:11:58.70
self is the biggest
battle's ever been fought,
00:11:58.71\00:12:01.00
very much so. I
like your statement,
00:12:01.01\00:12:03.37
your primary identity,
yes. You're playing for
00:12:03.38\00:12:06.67
a new team, you're
playing for a new team,
00:12:06.68\00:12:08.71
if you're playing
for a new team and it
00:12:08.72\00:12:09.69
doesn't mean that the
old way doesn't prop up,
00:12:09.70\00:12:12.17
in fact that is your
battle, keeping it from
00:12:12.18\00:12:13.81
doing that, that's
right, but your primary,
00:12:13.82\00:12:16.16
it's a great life,
your primary identity
00:12:16.17\00:12:18.43
now is Christ.
Exactly, yes. And I think many
00:12:18.44\00:12:21.40
Christians feel because, I mean
00:12:21.41\00:12:23.70
I'll ask people
sometime I'll say,
00:12:23.71\00:12:25.34
do you have a
greater sense of who you are
00:12:25.35\00:12:27.74
in Christ or still
have a greater sense of
00:12:27.75\00:12:30.41
how sin grips you and
a lot of them will say,
00:12:30.42\00:12:33.53
yeah, I still feel
more like a sinner.
00:12:33.54\00:12:35.73
And in fact I have
a friend who for years
00:12:35.74\00:12:39.53
has fought anger
and being hard on people
00:12:39.54\00:12:42.75
at home or
whatever and he just has not
00:12:42.76\00:12:45.00
been able to look
at this and he said
00:12:45.01\00:12:46.46
he just gets up wrapped up
00:12:46.47\00:12:47.61
in his sense of
failure, his sense
00:12:47.62\00:12:49.59
of just getting
irritable or losing his temper
00:12:49.60\00:12:52.77
or being
controlling or whatever.
00:12:52.78\00:12:54.36
And he suddenly
got it and decided,
00:12:54.37\00:12:57.69
I'm gonna wake
up every morning and
00:12:57.70\00:12:58.92
say Lord I thank you
that you are my primary
00:12:58.93\00:13:01.41
master that you're
healing the anger in me
00:13:01.42\00:13:05.05
and the attitude in
me you're changing me,
00:13:05.06\00:13:07.44
that I have a new
life that I can count
00:13:07.45\00:13:09.85
myself dead to sin as
Paul said in Romans 6,
00:13:09.86\00:13:12.20
yeah. And his wife
told me months afterwards
00:13:12.21\00:13:16.00
she said, he has
become a different person
00:13:16.01\00:13:18.55
because he is more
identified and he is
00:13:18.56\00:13:21.89
more aware of his
identity in Christ then
00:13:21.90\00:13:24.80
the street life,
the sinful nature that's
00:13:24.81\00:13:27.20
still in him even
though that still crops up.
00:13:27.21\00:13:29.21
Yes, yes that's
a fabulous thing.
00:13:29.22\00:13:30.86
And I think it is
a question that each
00:13:30.87\00:13:32.32
of us needs to ask ourselves.
00:13:32.33\00:13:34.17
Paul talked about
humility but he also
00:13:34.18\00:13:37.61
says I know him in
whom I have believed,
00:13:37.62\00:13:41.12
I know. Right. You
know we're not shadow boxes;
00:13:41.13\00:13:44.01
we're not beating the
air. We are fighting in
00:13:44.02\00:13:48.69
strength, fighting
in power. Yes. We're
00:13:48.70\00:13:50.89
fighting with
resurrection power, precisely,
00:13:50.90\00:13:52.78
but before that I need
to be just overwhelmingly
00:13:52.79\00:13:56.47
committed, yes, to
dying to self no matter what,
00:13:56.48\00:14:01.76
and sometimes it's
just excruciating painful
00:14:01.77\00:14:05.09
to die to self.
When I, when I don't and
00:14:05.10\00:14:08.50
I don't think
that some people get in
00:14:08.51\00:14:11.49
this crazy thing
of every time I sin is
00:14:11.50\00:14:14.21
Christ left my
life. I mean I'll say to a
00:14:14.22\00:14:17.36
married couple, I say
you know when you have
00:14:17.37\00:14:18.70
a fight, do you lie
awake nights wondering
00:14:18.71\00:14:20.70
if you're still
married. Yeah. They don't.
00:14:20.71\00:14:23.09
Right. You know.
Hey Christ is in us,
00:14:23.10\00:14:25.85
and in fact I
picture Jesus life in us this
00:14:25.86\00:14:30.90
way as a huge
body of water, an ocean
00:14:30.91\00:14:34.44
that goes on and on.
And he is in us and when I,
00:14:34.45\00:14:38.26
when self rises he
doesn't suddenly leave,
00:14:38.27\00:14:40.82
he's still there
but I picture this dam
00:14:40.83\00:14:43.56
with gates that
control the flow of the water.
00:14:43.57\00:14:45.81
Yes. And he is in me
but when self rises and
00:14:45.82\00:14:49.90
sin rises in me the
gates are shutting and
00:14:49.91\00:14:53.73
now I'm living
out of self, and when
00:14:53.74\00:14:56.85
I die to self and
let him control me,
00:14:56.86\00:15:00.24
the gates are
opening and his life
00:15:00.25\00:15:02.84
is flowing in me
and through me and
00:15:02.85\00:15:05.17
out of me to others, yeah, yeah.
00:15:05.18\00:15:06.71
But his life is in me
when I become a Christian,
00:15:06.72\00:15:09.16
we're identified
with Christ. Yeah, so.
00:15:09.17\00:15:12.96
Yes, and I think
our life was not defined
00:15:12.97\00:15:15.67
by the occasional
mistake or occasional slip,
00:15:15.68\00:15:18.39
right. It's more
defined by the direction
00:15:18.40\00:15:20.20
as you said it
before; it's our primary
00:15:20.21\00:15:22.01
identification,
our primary master.
00:15:22.02\00:15:23.75
Yeah. That's
right. And that is Jesus.
00:15:23.76\00:15:25.50
Yes. Do I not have
times when I make mistakes,
00:15:25.51\00:15:28.61
when I am less than
perfect as a Christian,
00:15:28.62\00:15:31.78
oh yeah. There are,
yeah, but my primary focus,
00:15:31.79\00:15:34.66
my primary identification,
my primary principle
00:15:34.67\00:15:37.20
master is Jesus
Christ. It's absolutely Christ.
00:15:37.21\00:15:39.12
Now the time I find
it hardest to let keep
00:15:39.13\00:15:43.81
those gates open. Is
when I'm being treated
00:15:43.82\00:15:48.47
unfairly and I know I'm right.
00:15:48.48\00:15:50.63
I mean when I know
I'm right, I'll never
00:15:50.64\00:15:56.19
forget the couple
coming to me a while back
00:15:56.20\00:16:00.35
and she was ticking
through his sins and
00:16:00.36\00:16:03.84
he was sinning,
they're agreeing with her
00:16:03.85\00:16:05.55
that he wasn't
caring, he didn't help with
00:16:05.56\00:16:07.50
the kids, he was
ignoring her in this and that
00:16:07.51\00:16:09.21
and the other. But she
said it so bitterly with
00:16:09.22\00:16:12.47
such sarcasm, with
such anger, with such
00:16:12.48\00:16:15.31
resentment. And
even though she was
00:16:15.32\00:16:17.22
absolutely right, I
felt very nervous about
00:16:17.23\00:16:20.26
the way she was right. Yeah.
00:16:20.27\00:16:21.96
And later I began to
reflect on this and now,
00:16:21.97\00:16:25.93
now I some times say
this, that we do a lot
00:16:25.94\00:16:28.10
if not most of our
sinning when we're right,
00:16:28.11\00:16:30.29
when we're right, yeah, yeah.
00:16:30.30\00:16:31.92
And I think it's
hardest to die to self
00:16:31.93\00:16:35.47
when I am right.
And I'm not talking
00:16:35.48\00:16:37.91
when I think I'm
right. Sometimes I think
00:16:37.92\00:16:40.08
I'm right I'm not.
Yes. I'm talking about
00:16:40.09\00:16:42.02
what I'm already
am. I mean God wants us
00:16:42.03\00:16:44.45
to have a happy
marriage. He doesn't
00:16:44.46\00:16:47.26
want me to be dying with cancer,
00:16:47.27\00:16:48.88
you know he, it's not
his will that the boss
00:16:48.89\00:16:52.03
be treating me badly or
all those sorts of things.
00:16:52.04\00:16:55.39
And when things are
not going my way then
00:16:55.40\00:16:58.68
I know even God
probably wishes was different.
00:16:58.69\00:17:01.30
Yeah. Why it's
terribly hard for bitterness
00:17:01.31\00:17:04.76
and for resentment and
for hurt and impatience,
00:17:04.77\00:17:07.81
to rise up and I'll
be sinning all over the
00:17:07.82\00:17:12.21
place even though
I'm right and that blocks
00:17:12.22\00:17:15.58
resurrection power.
You know, you would think
00:17:15.59\00:17:20.22
and perhaps it's
the way the human mind
00:17:20.23\00:17:22.13
works that, right is
almost the substitute
00:17:22.14\00:17:24.67
for being redemptive, it is not.
00:17:24.68\00:17:27.98
I think we have a, as
a greater responsibility
00:17:27.99\00:17:31.46
when we are in the
right to be redemptive,
00:17:31.47\00:17:34.52
to be redemptive that's right.
00:17:34.53\00:17:35.50
Yeah, yeah. See
Joseph, you look at,
00:17:35.51\00:17:37.76
hey Joseph's
brothers were right,
00:17:37.77\00:17:40.34
he was kind of a
spoiled kid, he was yeah, yeah.
00:17:40.35\00:17:42.96
And his father's
treating didn't help,
00:17:42.97\00:17:44.60
that's right, yeah.
And, but in their rightness
00:17:44.61\00:17:48.32
look what it let them
to do. Yes, yes, yeah.
00:17:48.33\00:17:51.50
I mean it's awful I
mean hearing it, they threw
00:17:51.51\00:17:54.15
Joseph in this pit,
then sold him as a slave
00:17:54.16\00:17:56.47
and all that, the
contrast is that Joseph had
00:17:56.48\00:18:00.22
the right to be
bitter and angry, I mean for
00:18:00.23\00:18:04.72
13 years he was in
Egypt as a slave and in prison
00:18:04.73\00:18:07.89
and all of that. And
here I mean boy if anybody
00:18:07.90\00:18:11.29
was justified in
having a sinful you might
00:18:11.30\00:18:14.06
say bitter, critical,
angry, revengeful spirit
00:18:14.07\00:18:19.61
it be Joseph and
he didn't. He never
00:18:19.62\00:18:22.89
manifested. I mean
so, so he didn't sin when
00:18:22.90\00:18:25.78
he was right and
it's, but it's, but when we
00:18:25.79\00:18:29.17
can surrender,
I'll say sometimes,
00:18:29.18\00:18:33.04
I'll say
sometimes what happens to us
00:18:33.05\00:18:35.64
is relatively inconsequential,
00:18:35.65\00:18:37.80
but what happens
in and through us
00:18:37.81\00:18:40.55
has huge consequences.
Oh yes, yes, yes I can
00:18:40.56\00:18:43.53
agree with that.
It's kind of, when we, and
00:18:43.54\00:18:46.49
we are so eager that
things go our way that
00:18:46.50\00:18:51.07
without knowing it, we
just, the gates of those
00:18:51.08\00:18:55.00
then shut down and
we're so invested in
00:18:55.01\00:18:58.05
things turning out
our way, that God's
00:18:58.06\00:19:01.74
resurrection power
is just blocked from
00:19:01.75\00:19:04.51
flowing through us.
It might just doesn't
00:19:04.52\00:19:07.25
happen like it ought
to. So, then your thesis is
00:19:07.26\00:19:10.96
we are most in danger
of having that old man
00:19:10.97\00:19:14.92
to rise again when
we're in the right.
00:19:14.93\00:19:17.43
It's seems so because
it's so hard not to fight
00:19:17.44\00:19:23.67
for our rights, yes,
yes. And we're in a world
00:19:23.68\00:19:27.24
that says take care
of number one, take care
00:19:27.25\00:19:30.12
of number one, nobody
else is gonna look after
00:19:30.13\00:19:32.35
you, oh yeah. And my
belief is that I should
00:19:32.36\00:19:37.34
have abandoned myself
protectiveness to Christ.
00:19:37.35\00:19:40.50
And this is very
tricky I know but I ought to
00:19:40.51\00:19:47.27
be more concerned
about the reputation
00:19:47.28\00:19:49.53
of Jesus through
me. Then I am concerned
00:19:49.54\00:19:52.28
about getting my way.
Because if I get my way
00:19:52.29\00:19:56.73
and I'm contradicting
the spirit of Christ,
00:19:56.74\00:20:00.78
his reputation is
being hurt, is being hurt,
00:20:00.79\00:20:03.24
sure, yeah. I mean
the reputation of Jesus,
00:20:03.25\00:20:05.29
I mean in Isaiah we
read, your name and your
00:20:05.30\00:20:08.09
renown are desire of my heart.
00:20:08.10\00:20:09.86
So am I absolutely
more invested in how Jesus
00:20:09.87\00:20:15.32
looks through me, I understand.
00:20:15.33\00:20:17.56
Then I am being
right or getting my right,
00:20:17.57\00:20:21.87
yes, yes, yes. And
it's so easy the last
00:20:21.88\00:20:25.13
church that our pastor
to had over 2000 members
00:20:25.14\00:20:27.53
and I recall there
was some disturbance
00:20:27.54\00:20:32.69
between two women
in the church, I went,
00:20:32.70\00:20:34.88
you know doing the
settle diplomacy back
00:20:34.89\00:20:36.76
and forth, that's
right. And when I went to
00:20:36.77\00:20:39.10
visit one member
she said to me, pastor,
00:20:39.11\00:20:41.77
not now, you know I
don't talk about that
00:20:41.78\00:20:44.18
forgiveness
stuff, I wanna be mad,
00:20:44.19\00:20:46.16
you know let me
enjoy this, I wanna be mad.
00:20:46.17\00:20:47.86
I want to like my
pity party. Yeah, I want to
00:20:47.87\00:20:49.51
stay here and I want
to be mad, talk with me
00:20:49.52\00:20:50.99
tomorrow. But I
don't want to, I don't want
00:20:51.00\00:20:52.51
you to discuss
this now, you're kind of
00:20:52.52\00:20:53.88
enjoying that
anger, you know that kind
00:20:53.89\00:20:55.57
of thing and
reveling in that anger.
00:20:55.58\00:20:58.32
And of course it's
an expression of self,
00:20:58.33\00:21:00.65
I want to be mad,
I don't want data,
00:21:00.66\00:21:02.87
I don't want rapprochement,
00:21:02.88\00:21:03.93
I don't wanna to be forgiven or
00:21:03.94\00:21:06.23
offer
forgiveness, I want to be mad,
00:21:06.24\00:21:08.27
I'm man and I want to be mad.
00:21:08.28\00:21:09.25
And we enjoy our mad, yes, yes.
00:21:09.26\00:21:10.62
I heard someone
did that, out of the
00:21:10.63\00:21:11.60
seven deadly sins,
the anger is the most fun.
00:21:11.61\00:21:13.12
I mean to just
enjoy and muse over
00:21:13.13\00:21:19.19
what's been done
to me and muse over
00:21:19.20\00:21:21.31
what I'm gonna
do back, yeah, yeah,
00:21:21.32\00:21:23.01
and really anger
is, oh my, I mean it's
00:21:23.02\00:21:27.01
I call it the
most dangerous emotion
00:21:27.02\00:21:28.50
because in
Ephesians it says do not
00:21:28.51\00:21:31.75
be angry, do not
let the sun go down on
00:21:31.76\00:21:33.76
you're anger and
do not give the devil
00:21:33.77\00:21:36.24
a foothold. Now, I
don't think it means
00:21:36.25\00:21:39.01
if one second
before the sun goes down
00:21:39.02\00:21:41.19
you get angry, and
you better get over
00:21:41.20\00:21:42.47
in the next half
second. I think it means don't
00:21:42.48\00:21:45.20
hold on to it,
surely, surely, surely.
00:21:45.21\00:21:47.25
And later it
says do not grieve the
00:21:47.26\00:21:48.23
Holy Spirit of God and
get rid of all bitterness,
00:21:48.24\00:21:50.43
rage, anger. And
in that passage in
00:21:50.44\00:21:53.13
Ephesians 4, I think
it's saying that when
00:21:53.14\00:21:55.74
I hold on to anger
and get angry and handle
00:21:55.75\00:21:59.55
it poorly, I'm
giving the devil a foothold,
00:21:59.56\00:22:02.34
I'm opening the
door to Satan and
00:22:02.35\00:22:04.04
I'm slamming the
door on the Holy Spirit.
00:22:04.05\00:22:05.83
Yeah. Do not grieve
that. That's about as
00:22:05.84\00:22:07.53
frightening as it can
get. To open the door to
00:22:07.54\00:22:09.48
Satan and slam the
door on the Holy Spirit.
00:22:09.49\00:22:11.18
Surely, surely and
of course it's at those
00:22:11.19\00:22:14.09
times when you are
holding on to that,
00:22:14.10\00:22:17.16
that the devil
brings something along to
00:22:17.17\00:22:19.09
show you how far from
Lord you actually are,
00:22:19.10\00:22:21.17
'cause you sort of cut
off, you sort of divorced
00:22:21.18\00:22:23.67
out from your power source, yes.
00:22:23.68\00:22:25.63
And certainly resurrection power
00:22:25.64\00:22:26.77
is not flowing
through that time.
00:22:26.78\00:22:27.91
That's true. The
reason we get angry
00:22:27.92\00:22:30.23
incidentally is we
don't like to feel weak
00:22:30.24\00:22:33.12
and helpless and
hurt and frustrated
00:22:33.13\00:22:34.55
and scared, you
probably heard that
00:22:34.56\00:22:36.39
anger is the
secondary emotion that always,
00:22:36.40\00:22:39.65
it was preceded by
either fear, hurt or
00:22:39.66\00:22:42.03
frustration. Yeah.
And we don't like those
00:22:42.04\00:22:44.17
feelings where as
it's, it feels power,
00:22:44.18\00:22:47.08
anger's power,
anger's power, yeah, yeah.
00:22:47.09\00:22:49.84
And so I feel, so I
go to anger to feel more
00:22:49.85\00:22:52.25
powerful 'cause I
don't wanna feel weak,
00:22:52.26\00:22:53.57
hurt or
frustration, precisely, yeah.
00:22:53.58\00:22:55.48
So I, get anger, but
when I do self is all
00:22:55.49\00:22:59.53
alive and it just
absolutely slams the
00:22:59.54\00:23:04.24
door to resurrection power.
00:23:04.25\00:23:05.68
It just slam,
because self is, when self is
00:23:05.69\00:23:08.55
alive it doesn't
need to be resurrected,
00:23:08.56\00:23:10.65
it's already
alive. When self is dead
00:23:10.66\00:23:13.11
that's when I need a new life,
00:23:13.12\00:23:14.28
I need
resurrection power. Would you
00:23:14.29\00:23:16.49
agree, do you agree
that this is something
00:23:16.50\00:23:18.84
that we have to,
and I use the term work
00:23:18.85\00:23:21.77
at everyday it's not
like you turn the button
00:23:21.78\00:23:23.69
on and the motor
runs, and it just runs on
00:23:23.70\00:23:25.52
eternally, yeah right,
but it's something that
00:23:25.53\00:23:27.08
we have to reaffirm everyday?
00:23:27.09\00:23:28.33
And I think you have
to reaffirm it numerous
00:23:28.34\00:23:30.83
times a day. I
mean numerous times a
00:23:30.84\00:23:34.00
day things happen
that are just inconvenient,
00:23:34.01\00:23:39.71
they're irritating,
they're scary, you know
00:23:39.72\00:23:44.22
whatever and,
numerous times a day
00:23:44.23\00:23:47.88
we can practice, you
know there's a lots of
00:23:47.89\00:23:50.33
duty practice dying
to self or really it.
00:23:50.34\00:23:52.46
Yeah. I love
definition Dallas Willard,
00:23:52.47\00:23:56.01
some people like to
read Dallas Willard he says,
00:23:56.02\00:23:58.89
"a person who is dead
to self is not offended
00:23:58.90\00:24:01.39
when things don't go
their way, they're not
00:24:01.40\00:24:04.07
surprised when
things don't go their way
00:24:04.08\00:24:06.02
and they're not
controlled by the things
00:24:06.03\00:24:08.87
that don't go their
way. Oh it's beautiful.
00:24:08.88\00:24:10.70
Now that's
resurrection power. Yes, yes.
00:24:10.71\00:24:14.25
So not be surprised
when things don't go
00:24:14.26\00:24:15.94
in my way, not
offended when things,
00:24:15.95\00:24:17.86
and not controlled
by the things that don't
00:24:17.87\00:24:19.52
go my way. Ellen
White, an author that we love
00:24:19.53\00:24:23.05
a lot says it's the
love of self that destroys
00:24:23.06\00:24:26.18
our peace. When
self is all alive when we
00:24:26.19\00:24:28.83
stand ready continually
to guard it, oh yeah,
00:24:28.84\00:24:31.43
for modification
an insult. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:31.44\00:24:33.44
But when we are
dead and our life is
00:24:33.45\00:24:35.58
hidden with
Christ the God, we'll not
00:24:35.59\00:24:37.61
take neglects or
slights to heart,
00:24:37.62\00:24:39.03
will be death to
reproach applying
00:24:39.04\00:24:40.57
to score an insult
now. And that's beautiful
00:24:40.58\00:24:43.39
stuff, oh that's beautiful.
00:24:43.40\00:24:44.50
And it shows a life of
total surrender to Christ.
00:24:44.51\00:24:46.92
Because you're not
offended, you're not
00:24:46.93\00:24:49.77
surprised and you're
not controlled by it,
00:24:49.78\00:24:52.26
and all of us can
sort of roll with things
00:24:52.27\00:24:54.89
when they're going as we wish.
00:24:54.90\00:24:56.33
That's right,
yeah. The tests of our,
00:24:56.34\00:24:57.51
our walk with
Christ is when things go
00:24:57.52\00:24:59.26
contrary to what
we want. But what's
00:24:59.27\00:25:01.06
remarkable and
exception and a miracle is
00:25:01.07\00:25:04.00
when you see
people rolling with things
00:25:04.01\00:25:06.73
when they're
not going their way.
00:25:06.74\00:25:08.48
Yes, yes. And there something,
00:25:08.49\00:25:10.00
I mean to have
that kind of peace and
00:25:10.01\00:25:12.53
that kind of
power, you know I some
00:25:12.54\00:25:15.22
times say that
it's hard to beat peace,
00:25:15.23\00:25:19.26
and power to cope
with whatever life
00:25:19.27\00:25:21.58
serves up. Having
peace and power to cope
00:25:21.59\00:25:24.22
with whatever life
serves up and you see
00:25:24.23\00:25:26.24
people with, that
just relate in powerful
00:25:26.25\00:25:31.21
and peaceful and
joyful ways, when life's just
00:25:31.22\00:25:34.26
slamming him in
the teeth all the time.
00:25:34.27\00:25:36.00
Surely. Who? Yeah.
That's an impressive
00:25:36.01\00:25:37.86
testimony for Christ.
Oh it is. It is and what
00:25:37.87\00:25:40.16
must it have
been like to have been
00:25:40.17\00:25:41.44
Jesus never get any
peace, never get any rest,
00:25:41.45\00:25:44.26
never get a break from
Satan, to have Pharisees,
00:25:44.27\00:25:46.34
Sadducees, nipping at
your heel all the time
00:25:46.35\00:25:49.05
and a group of
disciples in your inner circle
00:25:49.06\00:25:52.00
whose for the most part
really didn't understand
00:25:52.01\00:25:54.25
your mission and yet
maintained that peace,
00:25:54.26\00:25:56.95
maintain that calm,
maintain that focus,
00:25:56.96\00:25:59.32
maintain that connection,
that's the kind of power
00:25:59.33\00:26:01.98
that we can have here
growing up, that's true.
00:26:01.99\00:26:03.32
Yeah. Now saying all
these I mean it sounds,
00:26:03.33\00:26:06.29
I'm thinking it
sounds awfully negative,
00:26:06.30\00:26:07.91
hated guy to right,
so you can get up your
00:26:07.92\00:26:09.72
all those sorts of
thing. You've got a have a
00:26:09.73\00:26:11.48
couple things going
for you, one is you've got
00:26:11.49\00:26:13.75
to be just overwhelmed
with the love of Christ,
00:26:13.76\00:26:15.77
yes. You got to be
just absolutely overwhelmed
00:26:15.78\00:26:18.22
and say hey his love
and his reputation are
00:26:18.23\00:26:20.40
absolutely so
wonderful, hey I'm abandoning
00:26:20.41\00:26:22.80
self defending us
and self protecting us
00:26:22.81\00:26:24.74
and fighting for
my rights. The other
00:26:24.75\00:26:27.57
thing that it seems
life you have to be just
00:26:27.58\00:26:29.91
really overwhelmed
with is look being at peace
00:26:29.92\00:26:34.64
and trusting Christ,
yes. Has guarded all over
00:26:34.65\00:26:39.17
fighting for my
rights even, even when
00:26:39.18\00:26:43.02
occasionally I win.
Yes. And it's so awful when
00:26:43.03\00:26:46.39
I fight for my
rights, it doesn't even work.
00:26:46.40\00:26:48.66
Yeah. So why do
it when it's not even
00:26:48.67\00:26:52.52
worth it. And be losing
the opportunity sometimes
00:26:52.53\00:26:54.34
to represent Christ.
You know because you're
00:26:54.35\00:26:56.34
fighting, you're in
that fighting mode, yeah.
00:26:56.35\00:26:57.72
And you have to say
look John the Baptist
00:26:57.73\00:27:00.85
he must increase and
I decrease you have to
00:27:00.86\00:27:03.45
be terribly invested
in him looking great and
00:27:03.46\00:27:07.13
his reputation is
far more important than
00:27:07.14\00:27:09.14
how my life is going, oh yes.
00:27:09.15\00:27:10.78
How my life is going
is relatively unimportant
00:27:10.79\00:27:13.84
compared to how
he's looking and how he's
00:27:13.85\00:27:16.50
living through
me, oh yes. Yes, yes.
00:27:16.51\00:27:18.98
This has been a
wonderful study and
00:27:18.99\00:27:21.26
I thank you so
very much we've really
00:27:21.27\00:27:22.98
just sort of looked
at the tip of the eyes
00:27:22.99\00:27:25.06
because the
power of resurrection,
00:27:25.07\00:27:28.72
power of the
ideal resurrection power
00:27:28.73\00:27:30.21
such a wonderful
thing and it is dead rock
00:27:30.22\00:27:32.60
foundational to
our growth in Christ.
00:27:32.61\00:27:34.57
Die to self, come alive
to life in Jesus Christ,
00:27:34.58\00:27:37.59
right, and
experience a growth, a power
00:27:37.60\00:27:39.92
that we've never
had before, right.
00:27:39.93\00:27:41.49
A whole
different. And when I didn't,
00:27:41.50\00:27:43.09
until I got
this I didn't get it.
00:27:43.10\00:27:44.52
Until I got it I
didn't get it, right.
00:27:44.53\00:27:47.45
Praise God.
Thank you so very, very
00:27:47.46\00:27:49.81
much for being with
us. Yeah, thank you.
00:27:49.82\00:27:51.33
Again Resurrection
power, experience it,
00:27:51.34\00:27:53.78
pray for it, live in
it and your life will
00:27:53.79\00:27:56.28
be blessed, that's all for now,
00:27:56.29\00:27:57.80
God bless you,
we'll see you again.
00:27:57.81\00:27:59.26