Hello, I'm
Shelley Quinn, and welcome
00:00:31.02\00:00:32.77
to Issues and
Answers. You know life is full
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of issues and the
Bible is full of answers.
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We need to learn
to look to God as the
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one who is our problem solver.
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And I think that we have a very
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interesting program
for you today because
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we have a very
interesting guest,
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and I'd like to
introduce her just now.
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I like to welcome Linda Brawner.
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Linda, thank you
so much for driving in
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from Mansfield,
Ohio, that's correct. Yes.
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Well, I'm so thrilled
you are here with us today.
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And Linda has
written a precious book,
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a book that actually
I read last night when
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I told her I was
absolutely exhausted
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having only two hours of sleep.
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And I thought am
I going able to stay
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awake and read this
book, and the moment
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I opened it, I found it to be
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humorous, moving,
you're a delightful writer.
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Thank you. I
wanted to start this
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program with a
scripture, and I think
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you're going to appreciate this
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scripture, I'm sure
you're familiar with it.
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The scripture is
Psalms 3:3 that says
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"But you O Lord,
are a shield for me,
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my glory, and the
lifter of my head."
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And Linda, I know
that for you God has
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been the lifter of
your head because you
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went through a
very difficult time with
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your husband
having a chronic illness,
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and that's what we'd
like to talk about today
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is your passage way
if you will through this
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chronic
illness, and in the grief
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recovery after his death.
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But first, let me ask you this.
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You became a Seventh-day
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Adventist when
you were in college.
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Right, just I
was, actually several
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months after I
graduated college.
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I have met a
Seventh-day girl there and I had
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already come to
know Jesus Christ as my
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Savior, as my best
friend. And I was searching
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for what is truth?
How do we follow him?
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And she invited me
to Church, just invited
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me to Church, and
there I found answers.
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And about a year
later I joined the Seventh
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day Adventist
Church. That's wonderful now,
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you though started
off, you told me that
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when for you, when you
started turning to Jesus.
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It really did start
off with an intimate
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relationship that
developed quickly.
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Yes, it did.
During high school and
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college, I have
met Christians who came
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across just thinking
they were better than
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me, not because
they knew Jesus but
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because they went
to Church and they did
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all the right
things. And so when I started
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you know asking
what is the Bible about?
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Is the Bible
the source of truth?
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Is there sin that we
need to be saved from?
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And then of course
once you answer that
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question, is
Jesus Christ our Savior.
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I had to take a
hard look at what I was
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getting into
because I did not want to be
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of those people who went around,
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I'm better than you
because I go to Church.
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Right, amen. Well, I
can tell from reading
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your book which by
the way is entitled
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Stay Sweet. No, Keep Sweet.
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Keep Sweet,
excuse me Keep Sweet,
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and I can tell
from your book that you
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have a very intimate
relationship with the Lord.
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And it's
something that you really do
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consider him a
very close friend.
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And one that you
can reason with, you can
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get upset with
him, and he understands,
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yes. And I love
that about how you write,
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and I love that about
your relationship with God.
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Now, let's talk
about your husband.
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You met a man
and from the way you
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started, I thought
it was late in life,
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but you were 20...
No, I was, it was late,
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I was 29, 29, 28
and I turned 29 a couple
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months later, and
I had asked the Lord
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just the day before I met him.
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Lord, it would be
nice to be engaged by the
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time I'm 30. I
thought it was too much to ask
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to be married by
the time I was 30.
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But we did meet
the next day and we
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married six weeks
short of my 30th birthday.
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Oh praise God.
He answers prayers.
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Yes, he does. So
this relationship,
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your husband, I know you
prayed before you married.
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It was very
important to you, that you and
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your husband would
spend eternity together.
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Yes, it was. And
with Jerry, I could sense
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that he wasn't
sure God loved him,
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wasn't sure God was his friend.
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He wasn't a bad man
in anyway; it's just
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that a lot of us
underestimate our worth.
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And so I said
Lord, you know if my
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marrying him will make a saving
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difference in his
life, I want this.
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And if he is not
going to be in the Kingdom
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forever, do whatever
it takes to keep this
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marriage from
happening. And I basically gave
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God permission to
hit between the eyes but
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two by four if
that's what it took.
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Well, you married
him and it wasn't too
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long thereafter, as
you said in the book.
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As soon as you figured out what
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actually causes
babies to come along.
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Yes, our
daughter Kelly was born.
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Okay, and she's
been a great blessing.
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From the time
she was born, people
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would stop me in
the store and fuss over
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what a pretty smile she had.
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What a happy baby she
was, and I just loved it.
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You know
sometimes people worry about
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neglecting the
mother, but I have people who
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wouldn't give me
the time of day paying
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attention because of
this baby in my cart.
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Well, now about
thirteen years into
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your marriage,
your husband started
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changing and you at first
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were not sure what was going on?
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Actually it
started sooner than, he
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always seemed, from
my perspective a little
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lazy, not terribly motivated.
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He was diabetic
though all that time,
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and I did not
realize how much diabetes
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was affecting
his overall health.
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Diabetes is a drain
on all the systems of the
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body and by the
time we've been married
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13 years, he went to the doctor.
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They ordered heart
test and discovered he
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needed open heart surgery.
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What was your reaction to that?
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I was terrified.
How about your husband?
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Yeah, he was terrified too.
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It was, I don't
know how we, you know,
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but this time
we pulled together.
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There have been
other bumps in the road in
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fairly recent history
that kind of pulled us apart.
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And this one we
pulled together, and
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we were frightened together.
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And I think what
pulled us together is
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we both were turning to God.
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Praise the Lord. So
he gets this report,
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that they're going
to go in and cut through
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his chest bones and
really it was a graphic
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description that
you gave in the book of
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the type of surgery
that he was going to
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have to have, yes.
But they assumed that
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he would be back on
his feet within just a
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few weeks, right.
Right, they said he'd
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be out of the
hospital in six days,
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and that because
he had to do heavy
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lifting as part of
his job, it would be six
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months before
he went to work but
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pretty much he'd be
right as rain in a month.
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And that's not the
way it turned out, so why
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don't you give us a short
synopsis of what happened.
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He spent a
month in the hospital.
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Normally you're
on a breathing tube
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between 24 to 30 hours.
He was on five or six days.
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When he was off of
that, his mind wasn't
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quite right because of
all the trauma to the body.
00:08:10.74\00:08:12.91
So he didn't do
what he could do in terms
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of physical therapy.
His kidneys had failed
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from being under
anesthetics for so
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long, and he
ended up on dialysis
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most of his life.
And it was quite a
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different picture
than what they painted.
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So when he did
come home from the
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hospital, he came
home, and he was a
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fairly large man.
Yes. And he came home as
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someone who is
requiring dialysis and
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requiring a lot of care, yes.
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Something you said
that just touched me
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in the book was
you said that you loved
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him enough not to
do everything for him.
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Explain what you
mean? Yeah, that was hard,
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one of the things
that kept Jerry as alive as
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long as he was and
kept him enjoying life
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for as long as he
did was that he would try
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to do for himself
everything he could.
00:09:02.47\00:09:04.93
His strength levels
varied from sometimes
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day to day, week
to week and sometimes
00:09:08.20\00:09:10.71
it was a real
struggle for him to
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get out of the
chair. I would sit there and
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every nerve is you
know eager, ready to
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help, that's my
nature, I'm waitress, I'm used
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to helping people.
And I would sit there
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and I would wait
for him to ask because
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sometimes it
would take two or three
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times, but he
would get up and we both
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knew that his
body was stronger for
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having made those
three or four attempts
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to get out of the
chair all by himself.
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I think there is such
a great lesson in that
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because so many of
us try to do you know
00:09:40.92\00:09:44.70
for our loved
ones, when we don't think
00:09:45.07\00:09:46.70
they can do for themselves.
00:09:46.73\00:09:48.12
But sometimes
when someone is really
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very ill, then it's a difficult.
00:09:50.37\00:09:52.49
You can actually
overdo for someone,
00:09:53.99\00:09:55.83
and they become
so dependent upon you
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that they're no longer trying.
00:09:57.52\00:09:58.76
So you went through
three years of people
00:09:59.17\00:10:02.24
in your Church, and
people in the family
00:10:02.60\00:10:04.61
saying he
belongs in a rest home.
00:10:04.64\00:10:07.23
This is too much for
you, and actually you
00:10:07.80\00:10:10.88
went through an
experience just prior
00:10:10.91\00:10:13.70
to this diagnosis
and his chronic illness
00:10:13.73\00:10:17.81
that made people think it would
00:10:18.63\00:10:21.32
overwhelm you once
again. So let's back up, okay.
00:10:21.35\00:10:24.54
And talk about what
happened before your
00:10:24.57\00:10:27.49
husband was
diagnosed. I have had a nervous
00:10:27.52\00:10:31.02
breakdown. I did
not cope well with the
00:10:31.05\00:10:34.11
death of my
father. It became a wedge
00:10:34.14\00:10:36.20
between me and God.
I did not talk to God
00:10:36.23\00:10:39.68
about it. Probably
the best thing I could
00:10:39.71\00:10:42.53
done was just gone ahead and got
00:10:42.56\00:10:44.29
really mad and given
God a piece of my mind.
00:10:44.32\00:10:48.45
He's big, he loves us
all the time, he doesn't
00:10:48.72\00:10:51.85
get petty or
retaliate, and he already knows
00:10:51.88\00:10:55.69
what we feel, what he think.
00:10:55.72\00:10:57.16
So we might as
well tell him. Amen.
00:10:57.48\00:11:00.26
And the
breakdown, the breakdown was
00:11:03.04\00:11:05.25
the visible sign of
what I'd been through
00:11:05.28\00:11:08.87
but the thing that my
Christian brothers and
00:11:09.30\00:11:12.22
sisters had a hard
time understand was
00:11:12.25\00:11:14.13
actually it was also
a beginning of faith.
00:11:14.16\00:11:17.11
I finally admitted
I can't do this alone.
00:11:17.47\00:11:20.54
I need God's help; I need the
00:11:21.22\00:11:23.13
help of trained physicians.
00:11:23.16\00:11:24.68
And when you
started, when you had
00:11:25.76\00:11:29.05
this breakdown
didn't this also become to
00:11:29.08\00:11:31.77
drive a wedge between you
and your husband at first.
00:11:31.80\00:11:35.50
Actually no, when
I actually had the
00:11:37.51\00:11:39.27
breakdown I
actually sought help up until
00:11:39.30\00:11:41.63
then yes it was
a wedge because my
00:11:41.66\00:11:43.65
husband knew something was
00:11:43.68\00:11:44.95
wrong, and he had no clue.
00:11:44.98\00:11:47.06
You had shut down
emotionally during
00:11:47.09\00:11:48.90
the breathing
process, yes, and you were
00:11:48.93\00:11:50.61
building a wall not
only that was divider
00:11:50.64\00:11:53.33
between you and
God, but between you and
00:11:53.36\00:11:55.02
your husband. Yes, okay, yes.
00:11:55.05\00:11:56.78
And when I
actually had the breakdown,
00:11:57.14\00:11:59.84
he was out of town
which was rare for him.
00:12:00.77\00:12:02.80
He was visiting
a foster brother,
00:12:02.83\00:12:04.46
and when he came
back he said Linda,
00:12:05.17\00:12:08.46
I will do
anything to make you happy.
00:12:08.49\00:12:10.90
Praise the
Lord. You know, but it
00:12:10.93\00:12:13.15
wasn't what I
needed. I mean I'm glad he
00:12:13.18\00:12:15.93
was willing, but
it's amazing what clarity
00:12:15.96\00:12:19.27
God will give us in
the times when we are
00:12:19.30\00:12:21.55
just crushed. I
looked at him and said Jerry,
00:12:21.58\00:12:24.35
you can't make me
happy. You can only love me,
00:12:25.01\00:12:29.36
and I meant only in
the sense of simply or
00:12:29.93\00:12:32.64
this is the one
thing that will help me.
00:12:32.67\00:12:35.31
It was what I did,
what I didn't do for
00:12:36.75\00:12:39.63
him when he was sick.
He couldn't try to put
00:12:39.66\00:12:43.26
everything on a silver
platter and hand it to me.
00:12:43.29\00:12:45.85
I had to mentally
get up out of bed and
00:12:46.59\00:12:50.42
walk to the
refrigerator or mentally walk to
00:12:50.45\00:12:53.01
the bathroom. I
had to take care of
00:12:53.04\00:12:55.00
myself to a certain degree.
00:12:55.03\00:12:56.58
You know I think
you said something that
00:12:57.19\00:12:58.45
was insightful in the
book. She wrote that not
00:12:58.48\00:13:02.10
only can man not
make us happy, but
00:13:02.13\00:13:04.18
God can make us happy.
Happiness is a choice, yes.
00:13:04.21\00:13:08.18
Happiness is
something that God is the giver
00:13:08.21\00:13:10.87
as James 1:17
says of every good and
00:13:10.90\00:13:13.62
perfect gift, but no
matter what gifts God
00:13:13.65\00:13:17.40
bestows upon us.
No matter how much
00:13:17.43\00:13:20.37
your husband could
do to try to make you
00:13:20.40\00:13:22.46
happy if you
choose not to be happy,
00:13:22.49\00:13:25.07
you're not going to be, right.
00:13:25.72\00:13:27.43
So you had, God gave
you such great insight
00:13:27.46\00:13:30.67
during this time,
and as you turned around
00:13:30.70\00:13:33.35
from that you hadn't
been really recovered
00:13:33.38\00:13:36.60
from that
depression too long before.
00:13:36.63\00:13:38.95
You know I
actually had not recovered
00:13:38.98\00:13:41.60
because part of
what caused my breakdown
00:13:41.63\00:13:45.07
was I had not
slept right for fifteen
00:13:45.10\00:13:47.02
months, and it
took my body about two
00:13:47.05\00:13:50.06
years to recover from
that. And so yeah, I was
00:13:50.09\00:13:53.51
still
struggling with my own load
00:13:53.54\00:13:55.25
when Jerry got
sick. So now he gets sick,
00:13:55.46\00:13:58.36
and the interesting
thing is that during
00:13:58.95\00:14:02.86
this time you're
already drawing near
00:14:02.89\00:14:05.38
to the Lord, and
he's drawing more near to
00:14:05.41\00:14:07.66
you, and he really
did teach you how to
00:14:07.69\00:14:10.67
resist the
feelings of depression.
00:14:10.70\00:14:13.05
He thought you
how, yes. And he started
00:14:13.55\00:14:15.55
drawing Jerry
closer to him, closer than
00:14:15.58\00:14:19.46
he'd ever been
before. Yes. But I think Jerry
00:14:19.49\00:14:21.96
was a remarkable
patient because you
00:14:21.99\00:14:23.91
wrote that never
once did he complain or
00:14:23.94\00:14:27.91
whine or get bad
at God during these
00:14:27.94\00:14:30.32
three years of
chronic pain, severe
00:14:30.35\00:14:33.98
pain and chronic
illness. Yeah. Yeah, it was so
00:14:34.01\00:14:39.40
wonderful. I felt so
blessed that if he had
00:14:39.43\00:14:44.81
worked through I
think at some point
00:14:44.84\00:14:46.62
in time he had work
through the fact that
00:14:46.65\00:14:48.49
he had diabetes
and any blaming of God
00:14:48.52\00:14:52.98
he had already processed that.
00:14:53.01\00:14:55.21
And he was a great
strength to me, a great
00:14:55.85\00:14:57.93
help because since
he hadn't resolved that
00:14:57.96\00:15:01.88
this pain and
suffering he went through was
00:15:01.91\00:15:04.45
ultimately for his
good. He was able to focus
00:15:04.48\00:15:09.44
on being a husband and a father.
00:15:09.47\00:15:11.35
And he was an
excellent father to Kelly.
00:15:11.72\00:15:13.95
Yes. He must have
been. Alright, when
00:15:13.98\00:15:16.64
he did die, did
you grieve in the same
00:15:16.67\00:15:22.30
way that you could
grieve the loss of your
00:15:22.33\00:15:24.64
father and other
family members prior
00:15:24.67\00:15:27.00
or did you, was your
pattern of grief totally
00:15:27.81\00:15:30.31
different this time around.
00:15:30.34\00:15:31.80
It was considerably different.
00:15:31.83\00:15:33.85
A few years before
that my father died.
00:15:35.82\00:15:38.52
It was the first time
I lost somebody really
00:15:38.55\00:15:41.16
close to me, and I
noticed that I blocked
00:15:41.19\00:15:45.28
out his memory. I
could tell you about
00:15:45.31\00:15:47.55
my dad, but I
couldn't remember his face
00:15:47.58\00:15:51.69
you know clearly or
the sound of his voice.
00:15:51.91\00:15:54.75
And when Jerry
passed away the same
00:15:55.19\00:15:57.34
thing happened.
Only this time I knew
00:15:57.37\00:16:00.59
that God would
bring those memories back
00:16:01.02\00:16:03.04
to me at the right
time. And that this was how
00:16:03.07\00:16:05.27
I had to deal
with the horrible pain.
00:16:05.30\00:16:06.90
There was another
factor although my
00:16:07.56\00:16:09.80
dad had been
sick; it was my mom who
00:16:11.98\00:16:12.95
took care of him.
So, I didn't have that
00:16:12.96\00:16:14.64
end of it, because
I had that end of it
00:16:14.67\00:16:17.75
with Jerry there
was an immense relief
00:16:17.78\00:16:20.81
when he died.
His funeral was very
00:16:20.84\00:16:25.85
much a praise
service. About six weeks later
00:16:25.88\00:16:29.88
then the pain hit,
and. I thought the eulogy
00:16:30.50\00:16:34.50
that you gave, I
can see why the pastor
00:16:35.23\00:16:37.35
thought maybe you
wouldn't be strong
00:16:37.38\00:16:39.17
enough to get through this.
00:16:39.20\00:16:40.17
But the eulogy was
so precious, and I know
00:16:40.18\00:16:43.03
that it was a time
of great closure, but it
00:16:43.06\00:16:45.10
was a
celebration of his life, yes,
00:16:45.13\00:16:47.05
as how he made it.
Yes, yes, and I wanted
00:16:47.08\00:16:49.05
to because Jerry
didn't, he wasn't a by
00:16:49.08\00:16:54.79
the book Christian.
He did a lot of things
00:16:54.82\00:16:57.51
that weren't just quite
right, and I felt a need
00:16:57.54\00:17:00.80
to tell our Church
family, Jerry loved God.
00:17:00.83\00:17:04.54
Jerry understood that
Jesus Christ saved him.
00:17:04.92\00:17:07.67
I felt that no one
else could do that.
00:17:08.80\00:17:11.08
With all of these
deaths that you've
00:17:12.67\00:17:14.60
been through and I
think with the insight God
00:17:14.63\00:17:18.05
has given you,
would you say that there
00:17:18.08\00:17:20.90
is a set pattern to
grief? No, in fact the one
00:17:20.93\00:17:25.01
thing I've learned
is there is no pattern.
00:17:25.04\00:17:27.47
The five stages of
grief that is actually
00:17:28.23\00:17:30.56
study based on
people who are dying.
00:17:30.59\00:17:33.06
That's different
from losing someone else,
00:17:34.19\00:17:36.47
because there's the
factor, your life is
00:17:36.50\00:17:38.90
going to
continue, and so we grieve
00:17:38.93\00:17:43.32
differently, and
the most important thing
00:17:43.35\00:17:45.65
to know is that
it's okay, whatever your
00:17:45.68\00:17:50.59
experiencing, no
matter how out of
00:17:50.62\00:17:52.22
control you feel,
it's normal and healthy
00:17:52.25\00:17:56.71
to acknowledge those things.
00:17:56.74\00:17:58.69
And go ahead, beat
up God if you have to,
00:17:59.15\00:18:01.45
he's strong enough to
take it and as we slug
00:18:01.48\00:18:06.17
it out with him,
we're less likely to hurt
00:18:06.20\00:18:08.54
those around us,
who still need our
00:18:08.57\00:18:11.43
love and
affection. And you know I've
00:18:11.46\00:18:14.09
seen people that
I'll even have to confess
00:18:14.12\00:18:17.06
there was a time in
my life that my grief
00:18:17.09\00:18:19.23
was so overwhelming
that I shook my fist in
00:18:19.26\00:18:22.97
God's face and
said you promised, you
00:18:23.00\00:18:26.90
promised, but I
was taking his promises
00:18:26.93\00:18:30.09
out of context,
wanting healing for
00:18:30.12\00:18:32.90
someone and this
was before I really
00:18:32.93\00:18:35.19
understood that I
had faith in faith Linda.
00:18:35.22\00:18:38.51
Yeah. You know
what I am saying. Yes.
00:18:38.54\00:18:39.57
Instead of having let God
be the object of my faith.
00:18:39.60\00:18:42.98
Yeah. And then
afterward I felt so
00:18:43.01\00:18:46.09
guilty, I thought
how could he ever love me
00:18:46.12\00:18:48.43
again. But then
I remembered Romans
00:18:48.46\00:18:50.51
5:8 that says that
God demonstrated his love
00:18:50.54\00:18:54.23
for us in this
that while we were yet
00:18:54.26\00:18:56.68
sinners he sent
Jesus to die for us.
00:18:56.71\00:18:59.21
And now that I was
his child even though
00:18:59.73\00:19:02.35
I have thrown my
tantrum, I found that
00:19:02.38\00:19:05.14
when I remember
that scripture God drew
00:19:05.17\00:19:07.19
me right back in
with loving arms.
00:19:07.22\00:19:09.25
I confess and he forgave me.
00:19:09.58\00:19:12.17
Yes, and he will,
that's the beauty of
00:19:12.87\00:19:16.72
losing your temper with God.
00:19:16.75\00:19:18.30
He never holds a
grudge. Yes, amen.
00:19:18.73\00:19:21.58
And I can't remember,
00:19:22.20\00:19:25.30
he will carry us,
and when we admit to
00:19:30.77\00:19:34.28
God how we feel,
we can get through it
00:19:34.31\00:19:37.41
more quickly than
if we try to pretend
00:19:37.44\00:19:39.80
everything is okay. Amen, Amen.
00:19:39.83\00:19:42.50
Well now, can you
enjoy life at the same
00:19:42.96\00:19:48.31
time that you're
grieving? Yes, it's amazing
00:19:48.34\00:19:51.92
what you can do when
you surrender to God.
00:19:52.18\00:19:54.42
I could see clearly
that these experiences
00:19:54.95\00:19:58.03
were not just for
Jerry's benefit, his
00:19:58.41\00:20:00.91
salvation and my salvation.
But that I had work to
00:20:00.94\00:20:05.95
do, I had a testimony
that no one else could
00:20:05.98\00:20:09.63
give because of
what we had been through.
00:20:09.66\00:20:11.84
I went to a women's
retreat last fall, and
00:20:12.40\00:20:15.68
I'm not real good at mingling.
00:20:15.71\00:20:17.69
It takes me while
to warm out, and so
00:20:17.99\00:20:19.92
before the retreat
actually began, I ate
00:20:19.95\00:20:22.97
in this fancy restaurant
in the lodge, I ate alone.
00:20:23.00\00:20:27.05
Everybody else is
gathered up in fives or
00:20:27.22\00:20:29.70
sixes and because
I ate alone, I got a
00:20:29.73\00:20:32.51
really nice table
right on the water front,
00:20:32.54\00:20:35.69
and the view was excellent.
00:20:36.19\00:20:37.81
And I sat there and
they had on the dinner
00:20:38.45\00:20:41.66
menu something that
I really like and it
00:20:41.69\00:20:43.54
actually fit my
budget, so my delight
00:20:43.57\00:20:45.88
was unexpressible.
And at the same time
00:20:45.91\00:20:51.23
I'm delighted at all
that God has provided
00:20:51.62\00:20:53.89
me right then, I am
delighted with God's
00:20:53.92\00:20:56.72
presence, and I
am remembering other
00:20:56.75\00:20:59.77
dinners, the rare
times Jerry and I got to such
00:20:59.80\00:21:02.98
a nice restaurants, and enjoyed
00:21:03.01\00:21:05.24
each others company.
here is delight in my
00:21:05.27\00:21:09.11
heart and tears in
my eyes, and I know that
00:21:09.14\00:21:13.86
that whole blend
of emotions was what
00:21:14.80\00:21:17.05
God made us for.
You know I've heard
00:21:17.08\00:21:19.70
people say that sometimes when
00:21:19.73\00:21:22.13
you're going through
the grieving process,
00:21:22.16\00:21:24.28
that they almost
felt like they were
00:21:24.72\00:21:26.06
schizophrenic,
because a moment of
00:21:26.09\00:21:28.55
joy would be followed by a
00:21:28.58\00:21:30.16
moment of sorrow,
would be followed by
00:21:30.19\00:21:32.30
a moment of joy,
and sometimes Christians
00:21:32.33\00:21:34.37
will say I feel
so guilty in grieving
00:21:34.40\00:21:37.88
when I know I have
the blessed hope that
00:21:38.17\00:21:40.37
I am going to spent
the rest of my life,
00:21:40.40\00:21:42.67
my eternal life with my husband.
00:21:43.12\00:21:45.15
We were never meant
to be separated by death.
00:21:45.18\00:21:48.07
God's original plan
included all of us in
00:21:48.10\00:21:52.55
the Garden of Eden
never having tasted death.
00:21:52.58\00:21:56.42
So yes, it hurts; it
hurts very badly when
00:21:56.83\00:22:00.55
we lose a loved one.
And it's okay that it hurts.
00:22:00.58\00:22:03.90
It's not a denial of
faith. It's exactly what God
00:22:03.93\00:22:07.33
feels when he lays
our loved ones to rest.
00:22:07.36\00:22:10.02
You know and I
think about the times that
00:22:10.47\00:22:13.13
and I bet if you're
watching this program,
00:22:13.60\00:22:16.09
if you're honest
and you think about,
00:22:17.02\00:22:18.27
there are times
when you have been angry
00:22:18.30\00:22:20.09
at God, and when
you think you know why
00:22:20.12\00:22:23.35
me or why did this
happen, here I have a
00:22:23.38\00:22:25.47
young daughter that
still needs to be raised?
00:22:25.50\00:22:27.66
Why did my husband
have to go through this?
00:22:28.00\00:22:30.56
But what I loved
about your book is
00:22:31.42\00:22:33.39
you said its okay,
and its okay to express
00:22:33.42\00:22:35.75
that, as a matter of
fact that's where you
00:22:35.78\00:22:37.76
got in trouble
the first time around
00:22:37.79\00:22:39.50
because you
didn't express it. Right,
00:22:39.60\00:22:41.37
right, I let it
become a wedge between me
00:22:41.40\00:22:43.61
and God, and
nothing, nothing is meant
00:22:43.64\00:22:46.83
to separate us.
Truly, it's only our own
00:22:46.86\00:22:49.52
choices that can put a distance
00:22:49.55\00:22:51.35
between us and
God. So if Kelly were to
00:22:51.38\00:22:54.49
come to you and now
Kelly is now seventeen.
00:22:54.52\00:22:58.00
Seventeen, almost eighteen.
00:22:58.03\00:22:59.75
And a beautiful girl,
and I know the delight
00:23:00.08\00:23:02.34
of your life, but if
she were to come to you
00:23:02.37\00:23:05.01
and she was
terribly disappointed and she
00:23:05.04\00:23:07.92
said about something
and she didn't really
00:23:07.95\00:23:11.22
seem like she
wanted to go to Church, and
00:23:11.25\00:23:12.82
you said what's wrong
Kelly, and she's quiet
00:23:12.85\00:23:15.43
about it, and you
said are you mad at God
00:23:15.46\00:23:17.02
about something?
If she said yes, what
00:23:17.05\00:23:19.17
advice would you give her?
00:23:19.20\00:23:20.29
I say tell me, and
don't be afraid to tell
00:23:21.37\00:23:24.48
me if it helps you get there.
00:23:24.51\00:23:25.82
That's good,
because as you said over and
00:23:26.97\00:23:30.52
over in the book,
God's big enough to
00:23:30.55\00:23:32.08
handle it, and it's
kind of like what he says to
00:23:32.11\00:23:35.84
Isaiah, come let
us reason together.
00:23:35.87\00:23:37.74
And I found out six
weeks later, I started
00:23:38.18\00:23:41.22
becoming so angry
and I would take it on
00:23:41.25\00:23:43.88
store clerks, and
cashiers and things,
00:23:43.91\00:23:46.64
and I mean I wasn't
proud of my behavior,
00:23:46.98\00:23:49.01
but the anger was so
great it would just pop out.
00:23:49.04\00:23:51.63
And finally I
confessed to a friend,
00:23:52.50\00:23:54.43
I figured it
out, I'm angry at God.
00:23:54.96\00:23:57.39
I understand why
all these things came to
00:23:57.83\00:24:00.54
pass, and I
understand how much God loves
00:24:00.57\00:24:04.00
me, but I am so angry
that it hurts so much.
00:24:04.03\00:24:08.30
I thought somehow he would
00:24:08.73\00:24:10.05
shield me from this
pain. And did you find that
00:24:10.08\00:24:14.13
it was difficult
for your church friends
00:24:14.16\00:24:17.77
to understand this.
I know here they were
00:24:17.80\00:24:20.79
a little bit
concerned because you had been
00:24:20.82\00:24:22.65
through a
depression and now people, and
00:24:22.68\00:24:25.49
people are so
inept in comforting the
00:24:25.52\00:24:31.36
grieving, would you agree?
00:24:31.39\00:24:32.59
Yes, yes they are, in
fact I was really glad
00:24:32.62\00:24:35.61
that I was up, because
I was able to encourage
00:24:35.64\00:24:38.98
what they did that
was right, and not get
00:24:39.01\00:24:42.10
upset about what
they did that was wrong,
00:24:42.13\00:24:44.35
but actually the
Church was more able to
00:24:44.80\00:24:48.98
comfort me as a
widow. This was a problem
00:24:49.01\00:24:52.26
that socially people
know what to do with.
00:24:52.29\00:24:54.91
When somebody has
a nervous breakdown,
00:24:56.10\00:24:57.88
you don't go to a
Hallmark store and
00:24:57.91\00:25:00.64
find a section
called nervous breakdowns.
00:25:00.67\00:25:02.83
There is no book of
etiquette for people
00:25:03.19\00:25:06.99
who lose their
marbles, and so it was actually
00:25:07.02\00:25:10.90
a relief that they
knew what to do, nor they
00:25:10.93\00:25:14.82
didn't do it perfectly.
But this time they had
00:25:14.85\00:25:19.03
a better idea of what to do.
00:25:19.06\00:25:20.46
And I would encourage people,
00:25:20.97\00:25:22.41
when you know
somebody is grieving,
00:25:22.86\00:25:24.79
overcome your discomfort,
go to the calling hours,
00:25:25.74\00:25:29.49
even if they give
only them a hug and say
00:25:29.84\00:25:32.34
I'm sorry, every person makes a
00:25:32.37\00:25:35.37
difference, every
person says you are
00:25:35.40\00:25:38.44
not alone, God is
looking after you.
00:25:38.47\00:25:41.05
Amen, amen. And
you can more than
00:25:41.08\00:25:45.23
endure the pain,
you can overcome the
00:25:45.26\00:25:46.89
pain when as we
said in the beginning.
00:25:46.92\00:25:50.18
We let God become
the lifter of our heads.
00:25:50.21\00:25:52.90
Yes. And so what
would you, if you
00:25:52.93\00:25:55.76
could just take
a moment and look
00:25:55.79\00:25:57.36
into the
camera. Okay. What would
00:25:57.39\00:25:59.73
you say you to
someone who is going
00:25:59.76\00:26:04.45
through the
grieving process right now?
00:26:04.48\00:26:06.22
There is no wrong way to grieve.
00:26:07.21\00:26:09.44
Your emotions will be
wild, they will shift.
00:26:10.47\00:26:13.94
This is normal
and God can carry your
00:26:15.11\00:26:18.87
through it.
Find somebody safe to
00:26:18.90\00:26:21.44
talk to and above
all, talk to the Lord.
00:26:21.47\00:26:24.61
Amen, I agree with
that one, hundred percent.
00:26:25.25\00:26:28.42
You know this is
reminding me of a
00:26:28.76\00:26:30.29
reminding me of
a scripture because
00:26:30.32\00:26:31.29
the Bible says,
in Isaiah chapter 43,
00:26:32.37\00:26:36.65
and I know you're
familiar with this scripture.
00:26:37.27\00:26:39.41
You know
sometimes when we're going
00:26:39.92\00:26:41.16
through this
grieving process we feel so
00:26:41.19\00:26:43.08
alone, but God
is always with us.
00:26:43.11\00:26:45.50
He never leave
us nor forsakes us.
00:26:45.53\00:26:47.38
And he says in
Isaiah 43, Fear not, for
00:26:47.79\00:26:51.27
I have redeemed
you; I have called you by
00:26:51.30\00:26:54.32
your name, you are
mine. And when you pass
00:26:54.35\00:26:58.06
through the
rivers, I will be with you,
00:26:58.51\00:27:00.78
they will not overwhelm you;
00:27:00.81\00:27:02.14
when you walk through the fire,
00:27:02.53\00:27:04.50
when you walk
through this fiery trail
00:27:04.94\00:27:06.59
of grief, you will
not be burned or scourged
00:27:06.62\00:27:10.62
nor will the
flame kindle upon you.
00:27:10.65\00:27:13.32
For I am the Lord
your God, the holy
00:27:13.73\00:27:15.89
one, your savior.
And I know that you
00:27:15.92\00:27:19.54
found out he was
with you every step of the
00:27:19.57\00:27:22.44
way and it was something that he
00:27:22.47\00:27:25.41
actually brought
you into a closer
00:27:25.44\00:27:27.31
relationship with him
during your time of grief.
00:27:27.34\00:27:29.92
Yes. Praise the
Lord. And he has done
00:27:30.38\00:27:32.91
such a glorious
things. Amen. Linda, I thank
00:27:32.94\00:27:35.67
you so much for
joining us today.
00:27:35.70\00:27:37.48
And I'm so thankful
that you are going to
00:27:37.51\00:27:38.96
be coming back
for another program or
00:27:38.99\00:27:40.86
two, and we are going
to get a chance to talk
00:27:40.89\00:27:43.08
to Linda some more.
But now for those of
00:27:43.11\00:27:45.48
you at home, may
the grace of our Lord
00:27:45.51\00:27:48.64
Jesus Christ, the
love of the Father and the
00:27:48.67\00:27:51.01
fellowship of the
Holy Spirit be with you.
00:27:51.04\00:27:53.34