Hello and welcome to a brand new
season of Issues and Answers.
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My name is Melissa Summers.
This season this is your
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emotional outlet to whatever
issues you have. You may have
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issues but you know
what? God has all the answers.
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We are blessed to have
a committee of Christian
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counselors to address
those issues. So at any point,
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feel free to e-mail me
at melissa.summers@3abn.org
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Now today's discussion and our
issue, we'll be talking about
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divorce, heading it off
before it happens and hold on,
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I don't plan to
cry but just in case.
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Our guest is the best selling
author of 28 books on family
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relationships which have
been translated into about 30
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languages. She is a certified
family life educator and has
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conducted thousands of
seminars around the world.
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This blessing to the world is
none other than Nancy Van Pelt.
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Nancy, okay I have my
tissue here. Thank you so much
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for coming. It's my
privilege to be here.
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All right. Let's just dive
into it because we only have 30
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minutes. All right. We're trying
to head off divorce before it
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happens. What are the signs.
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The signs can be long and
complicated, but when I first
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see it is when people come
and ask for help. They recognize
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that there are problems in their
relationship that they cannot
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solve. If you keep meeting the
same problem over and over again
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without a solution this is
definitely a problem that...
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it's a sign that
you need further help.
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But what about those that say
I was clueless. All of a sudden
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he or she just asked me for a
divorce? I didn't know anything
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was wrong.
Sometimes I think that they're
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not very much in touch
with what's going on in their
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relationship. In fact, I just
dealt with that very recently.
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My husband told me that a man
had called him and said that his
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wife was acting shall we say
"weird. " I said when a woman
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acts weird it's a big sign that
something is very wrong in their
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relationship. So I called this
man and I said, Harry just told
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me that your wife is acting
"weird. " Do you recognize that
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she is about to leave you.
He just kind of blew all of this
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off. Within two weeks she
was gone. I talked to him again.
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He said, I was clueless. I never
saw it coming. I said how can
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you say that to me when I
told you that when a woman acts
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"weird" that
it's about to happen.
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So did he
elaborate on what weird was?
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This is kind of hard to define
but I call it an emotional
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divorce that occurs before the
actual separation. The person
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will withdraw, not talk so much.
It's the hurt and the distance,
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particularly a woman will start
putting distance between her
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and her husband. He recognizes
that there is distance between
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them but he still remains
clueless because he may think
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it's that time of the month,
it's just a mood that she's in
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or whatever and he thinks that
she'll get over it. But there's
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a definite distance there.
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So the partner emotionally
detaches themselves from the
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relationship. Yes and
if the couple doesn't do
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something right then... Of
course you really should see
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a counselor prior to that time
but that is definitely the time
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when they need to get into
counseling to see if there's any
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chance for salvaging the
relationship before they head
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for the divorce court.
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Okay. What about this comment?
Honey, what's wrong. Oh nothing.
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Whenever a woman says, Oh
nothing, a man needs to listen
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to that carefully and recognize
that there is more than nothing
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wrong. He needs to pursue
it. Maybe not right then, but he
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needs to pursue it at the
right time and in the right way.
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Okay. Now let's switch gears to
the man. You know men have this
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cushion excuse that oh he's
gone into his cave; oh give him
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some time. Or give her, but...
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Yes men will go into their caves
but they are more likely to
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come out. But God just
created women to be more into
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relationships, to have a deeper
understanding of relationships,
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to be the
nurturer of relationships.
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I do kind of an interesting
thing when couples come to see
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me one on one. I ask them to
grade their marriage on a scale
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of one to ten, ten
being high and one being low.
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It helps give me a read
on where they think they are.
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Now I almost invariably ask the
man to grade the relationship
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first. He will generally grade
the relationship around a seven
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or an eight. Seven is
sometimes even low for a man.
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Now where will the woman grade
the relationship? A three or a
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four. But one woman said minus
two and this was a man who had
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graded his relationship at a 10.
He didn't have a clue, he simply
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did not understand where she was
emotionally in this relationship
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Okay. So what do we do before
we get to the D word, divorce,
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to be in touch with one another?
How can we be on such different
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planes? Well
that's because I think
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especially during the young
years couples get so involved
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with their children. The
babies come along so fast.
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Maybe she's working full time
and she has one or two children
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at home, so her energy is going
so much into her own work and
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energy she has left over then
she directs to the children and
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maintaining the home and any
other activities that she's got.
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He's building his career. He is
expending so much of his energy
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pursuing his life work that
they are giving their marriage
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the least amount of energy.
So they simply are not spending
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enought time together. I believe
that a couple needs to start
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nurturing their relationship.
Let's face it. We get married
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with absolutely no marriage
education. Even for a driver's
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license you have to study a
little booklet and pass a test.
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But there isn't any kind
of education for marriage.
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So the minute the I dos are
said then the couple is left on
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their own drifting out there.
So I believe in education for
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marriage, both before a couple
gets married, after they get
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married and yet when I come
to town with my Highly Effective
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Marriage Seminar, there are many
people that say well what do I
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need to go to a marriage
seminar? There's nothing wrong
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here. Yet that would be their
time of education, their time to
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nuture their relationship,
to take a careful look on the
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inside. Are there any issues
that need to be dealt with?
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That would be their opportunity.
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So what are some very tragic
mistakes that a husband and a
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wife do each of themselves
within that marriage to lead
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it down the road to divorce?
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Well the list could actually
be endless, but one of the first
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things that comes to my
mind right now is rather than
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discussing it, talking about it,
rather than saying oh nothing
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when you're asked if something
is wrong, the person will close
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down and withdraw into this wall
of silence and not discuss it.
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Then it seems like once
they start withdrawing and they
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close down, we
can't get any place.
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It's been said that adultery
kills by the thousands but that
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silence kills by
the 10s of thousands.
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So the silent treatment
is a real marriage killer.
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You know in our marriage
vows we vow to honor, to work
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together and there's nothing
in those vows that says that we
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can shut down. The marriage vows
imply that we will work together
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to solve any problem that
we encounter. So when a couple
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reaches that point where they
can't talk about something, that
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is a point where they really
need to seek outside help.
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So shutting down, going in
opposite directions in your
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life as far as career and
children... Because a lot of
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times is it true that women
basically shut the spouse or
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the husband off when children
come into play and they take
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that part that the husband is
used to, the nuturing, loving...
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Yes, that can happen.
Women sometimes will forget what
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their priorities are and maybe
I'm treading on some thin ice
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here when I say this but I
really see that a woman needs
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to put her husband first in
a relationship because when the
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children see a secure marriage
they are going to feel more
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secure. But when a husband is
neglected and he sees his wife
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directing the major portion
of her energy, her time, her
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attention to the children,
he's going to feel neglected and
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neglected men do
not make good husbands.
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And what agout
the neglected wife?
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The neglected wife is one of the
big problems that I deal with.
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In fact, I had an interesting
experience in the last seminar
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that I was teaching. It
was a Highly Effective Marriage
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Seminar and after the
first session... All I talk
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about in the first session
of the marriage seminar is how
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to meet his needs and
how to meet her needs.
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Now we're talking
about emotional needs.
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The male has four basic
emotional need and the female
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has four basic emotional needs.
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Okay, hold on. What are the
four basic needs for the male?
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Okay. The four basic emotional
needs for the male: Number one
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is for admiration and
appreciation. Is he being
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appreciated? Is she remembering
to say thank you and just to
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brag on him a little bit.
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Those are the
ego kind of things?
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Yes. Yes. Secondly does she
respect him? You know there's
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a clear biblical principle
on this respect. Wives are to
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respect their husbands.
The third is emotional support.
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Is she
supporting him emotionally?
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The fourth emotional need for a
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male is for sexual fulfillment.
Some people say well I think
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that that is a physical
need. But there's an emotional
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dimension to it that
women need to understand.
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That's even biblical. Lord
forgive me, I can't think of
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where to find it, but doesn't
it say basically we're not to
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deny our spouse. Yes,
the Bible does say that.
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So many of these basic emotional
needs that I'm talking about
00:12:04.67\00:12:09.25
are rooted deeply
in biblical principles.
00:12:09.29\00:12:13.55
Now let me go down the
four again and right now we're
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dealing with the
four towards the man.
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Admiration and appreciation.
What are some things?
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Because women are so caught up
in our careers and this and that
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What do you mean,
admiration? What do you mean.
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Some times women just
forget to tell their husband how
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handsome he is, how good he
looks and they forget to thank
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him for the little things.
One thing that Harry does for me
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is put gas in the gas tank.
There is one thing in life I
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hate to do and that is fill
the gas tank. It ruins my nails,
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It stinks. It get's my hands
dirty and it eats my credit
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cards. I just hate that. So he
does that for me, I need to be
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appreciative of him; just
the little things that he does.
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I talk a lot about the
five- second compliments.
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If we had this flowing back
and forth from husband to wife
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in five-second bites constantly
throughout the day, this could
00:13:15.94\00:13:20.68
save many marriages right there.
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Because doesn't that say that
honey you're always on my mind.
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I'm thinking of you.
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Yes, and not only am I thinking
of you, I appreciate you.
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Wow. What agout respect?
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Respect. If you ask women
if they respect their husbands,
00:13:32.62\00:13:38.94
most of them say oh
sure I respect my husband.
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But if you could be a little
bird on a window seal peeking
00:13:42.48\00:13:47.55
inside that home taking a
look, how much respect would you
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actually see. Because some women
treat their husbands like their
00:13:52.61\00:13:56.32
children. You know. How many
times do I have to ask you to
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come to the table. Oh don't
forget, it looks like it's going
00:14:00.18\00:14:03.54
rain today, you better take
your umbrella. Here's a hanky so
00:14:03.58\00:14:06.91
you can blow your nose.
00:14:06.94\00:14:08.01
So we become mother
symbols and not... Wow!
00:14:08.05\00:14:11.96
Okay to show the husband respect
it's like honey I've asked you
00:14:12.00\00:14:16.67
thirty times to change the
light bulb and they get furious.
00:14:16.71\00:14:21.16
Sometimes you have to let these
things go or do them yourself.
00:14:21.20\00:14:25.28
Doesn't that add a thing with
them like okay I should have
00:14:25.31\00:14:29.36
done that. Okay
emotional support.
00:14:29.39\00:14:34.60
All right. The emotional support
is particularly necessary for
00:14:34.64\00:14:39.42
men of all ages, but for example
with the man that is young,
00:14:39.46\00:14:43.99
building his career. No matter
what field he enters, there
00:14:44.03\00:14:48.47
will be a lot of men in that
field before him trying to tear
00:14:48.51\00:14:53.98
him down, put him aside and make
him earn his pay just the way
00:14:54.01\00:14:58.49
they had to fight their way
up the ladder. So while this is
00:14:58.53\00:15:02.59
happening, he needs somebody
that he can talk to, somebody
00:15:02.63\00:15:06.66
to give him a pat on
the back when he's down.
00:15:06.69\00:15:09.89
Somehow men are drawn to women
when they're dating who know
00:15:10.83\00:15:14.70
how to do this and some women
just forget this after they are
00:15:14.74\00:15:18.57
married that their husband still
needs this pat on the back,
00:15:18.61\00:15:22.76
this little bit of encouragement
this somebody that they feel is
00:15:22.79\00:15:27.48
on their side, on their team,
we're in this together, you
00:15:27.52\00:15:31.92
can count on me. I'm going to
be there for you when you need
00:15:31.95\00:15:36.32
me. That type of an attitude.
00:15:36.35\00:15:37.56
So on their team
and not on their back.
00:15:37.60\00:15:39.93
Right. On their
team not on their back.
00:15:39.97\00:15:42.27
Good way to put it.
00:15:42.31\00:15:45.05
Sexual fulfillment. Yes.
A lot of women think that
00:15:45.09\00:15:49.15
that is a physical need for a
man, but there is an emotional
00:15:49.19\00:15:54.18
dimension to it. Some men do not
know how to communicate their
00:15:54.22\00:16:00.26
love for their wives except
sexually. But it also is comfort
00:16:00.29\00:16:06.04
for a man. Men can put into
words... through sex they can
00:16:06.07\00:16:11.00
put another dimension of their
emotional feelings, the bond
00:16:11.03\00:16:16.79
between them through sex. When
a man has sex it's almost like
00:16:16.82\00:16:22.55
patting him on the back
and saying, you're okay boy.
00:16:22.58\00:16:25.67
He can go out and he can fight
the world, he's reenergized.
00:16:25.70\00:16:30.27
So if you look at sex that
way, it is a wonderful way of
00:16:30.30\00:16:34.80
strengthening the bond between
husbands and wives. So it's more
00:16:34.84\00:16:38.52
that just a
physical relief to a man.
00:16:38.55\00:16:41.74
One quick thing. Because a lot
of times with the Bible saying
00:16:41.78\00:16:44.67
be temperant in all
things including in the bedroom
00:16:44.71\00:16:47.91
sometimes they can
go beyond temperant.
00:16:47.94\00:16:51.76
So if you could just
elaborate on that just a bit.
00:16:51.80\00:16:55.76
Every woman needs to kind of
evaluate if her husband is going
00:16:55.80\00:17:02.93
to far. Men need to take a close
look at this. But read one of my
00:17:02.97\00:17:09.09
books and find out about healthy
sexuality. You know, there is
00:17:09.12\00:17:15.21
so much out in the world
that is not healthy today that
00:17:15.25\00:17:18.90
couples are getting very
confused on what is healthy
00:17:18.93\00:17:22.51
sexuality, but I look at sex
as kind of a salve to heal the
00:17:22.55\00:17:27.78
wounds between the couple.
Maybe there have been some cross
00:17:27.82\00:17:32.55
words, maybe there has been
some real stress between them,
00:17:32.59\00:17:37.25
but when they come together in
the bedroom under holy matrimony
00:17:37.28\00:17:42.54
Say that one more
time. UNDER HOLY MATRIMONY.
00:17:42.58\00:17:46.59
I don't want us to get
e-mails and calls, what is this?
00:17:46.63\00:17:49.07
But this is a natural, biblical
thing between a husband and wife
00:17:49.11\00:17:53.98
Yes and you can kind of release
all of these hurts and at the
00:17:54.02\00:17:58.85
time... But it
doesn't take the place of
00:17:58.89\00:17:59.93
communication, correct?
No, no, no. It is another way
00:17:59.97\00:18:03.52
of communication for a couple,
particularly for a man, but
00:18:03.55\00:18:08.02
temporarily you can heal all
the little hurts and wounds and
00:18:08.06\00:18:12.50
the couple draws
together again in real love.
00:18:12.53\00:18:15.73
Now, the list for the
husband toward the wife.
00:18:15.77\00:18:18.90
All right. Now I wondered if
you were going to forget that.
00:18:18.93\00:18:20.99
Oh, I'm not forgetting.
00:18:21.03\00:18:22.00
All right, there are four basic
emotional needs for the woman
00:18:22.03\00:18:26.55
and the first is for love and
appreciation. I mean, men are
00:18:26.59\00:18:31.28
really good at doing that before
they are married. They pursue
00:18:31.32\00:18:35.98
the woman and they tell
her how much they love her, but
00:18:36.01\00:18:40.06
they kind of forget
that after they are married.
00:18:40.10\00:18:42.85
I show a little cartoon in
my seminar of a woman saying
00:18:42.89\00:18:47.60
to her husband, do you love
me? No response and she goes to
00:18:47.63\00:18:51.80
him and do you love me? No
response. Finally she screams
00:18:51.83\00:18:55.81
at him do you love me? And
he says I told you 29 years ago
00:18:55.84\00:18:59.75
on our wedding day that I loved
you. I haven't changed my mind.
00:18:59.78\00:19:03.70
If I ever do, I'll let you know.
This is not good enough for
00:19:03.74\00:19:08.08
a woman. She needs to feel every
day of her life that she is
00:19:08.12\00:19:12.93
cherished by her husband as
much today as she was five years
00:19:12.97\00:19:18.15
ago, 10, 20, whatever the time
is. That never lessens with a
00:19:18.19\00:19:23.34
woman. Okay, number two.
The second need is for an
00:19:23.37\00:19:30.12
emotional connection with
her husband. She needs to feel
00:19:30.15\00:19:36.79
emotionally secure, that she
comes first in his life at least
00:19:36.83\00:19:42.75
part of the time. One thing that
is really bothersom to women
00:19:42.78\00:19:47.87
is when a man notices other
women walking down the street.
00:19:47.90\00:19:53.17
Now I'm not suggesting that a
man put blinders on. That is not
00:19:53.21\00:19:58.52
what I'm talking about. But
a woman should never be aware,
00:19:58.56\00:20:03.80
a wife should never be aware of
what it is her husband is seeing
00:20:03.83\00:20:08.64
Otherwise, it weakens her
position. Some people might call
00:20:08.67\00:20:14.70
it jealousy. No, it's not that.
In order to prove this point
00:20:14.74\00:20:19.76
many woman will ask a husband
to do something for them that
00:20:19.79\00:20:24.78
they could easily do
for themselves. It's a test.
00:20:24.81\00:20:28.36
How much do you really
love me. It always goes back to
00:20:28.40\00:20:33.31
making her feel loved and
emotionally secure in that
00:20:33.35\00:20:37.68
relationship. If she feels
secure that sense of security
00:20:37.72\00:20:41.84
is going to pass down to the
children. Okay, the next one.
00:20:41.88\00:20:46.71
The next one is she needs to
feel pretty. She needs to have
00:20:46.74\00:20:51.64
compliments and again this can
be done in a little five second
00:20:51.68\00:20:56.55
time. You know, the husband
needs it, the wife needs it.
00:20:56.58\00:21:00.10
But when we get these things
flowing back and forth how
00:21:00.13\00:21:03.58
precious this is because we have
a lot of positive flowing in.
00:21:03.61\00:21:09.03
And the last one. The
last one is for romantic
00:21:09.06\00:21:13.21
attention. This never
dies within a woman and men
00:21:13.24\00:21:17.31
sometimes they just don't get
it over time. But I had this man
00:21:17.35\00:21:22.18
in my seminar come to me at
the end of the first lesson and
00:21:22.22\00:21:26.60
he said, Nancy, what you don't
know is after this first lesson
00:21:26.63\00:21:31.04
I have already gotten my money's
worth out of this seminar. Why?
00:21:31.08\00:21:35.46
Because he simply did not
understand the emotional needs
00:21:35.49\00:21:39.14
of his wife. Okay,
now help those men that
00:21:39.17\00:21:43.38
might need a little help
to show love and appreciation.
00:21:43.42\00:21:47.11
Love and appreciation can be
shown in many different ways.
00:21:47.14\00:21:52.49
But one way would be to pitch
in and sense that she is tired.
00:21:52.52\00:21:57.69
Maybe she has been working all
day. Let me put a child to bed
00:21:57.72\00:22:02.80
or can I set the table for you
or honey come and let's take a
00:22:02.84\00:22:07.88
walk tonight and just
talk with me for a few minutes.
00:22:07.92\00:22:12.14
For him to initiate a few
minutes alone where they could
00:22:12.18\00:22:15.94
communicate is almost like
asking her for a date all over
00:22:15.97\00:22:19.70
again. Initiate.
That's the key word.
00:22:19.73\00:22:22.26
Initiate it. And yet some
men will just stand up and say
00:22:22.29\00:22:27.37
Um, I think I'm goin' out
for a walk. Baby let's go.
00:22:27.41\00:22:32.42
And she'll say, well why didn't
you ask me. And he'll say, if
00:22:32.45\00:22:36.88
ya wanna go, let's go. But he
doesn't understand if he would
00:22:36.91\00:22:41.25
ask her it would be like I'm
thinking of you, I want you to
00:22:41.29\00:22:45.59
be with me, share
this time with me.
00:22:45.63\00:22:48.67
Emotional connection, security.
00:22:48.70\00:22:51.29
Emotional security is this
business that she feels that
00:22:51.32\00:22:56.18
she is number one. She has
a place, a secure place in his
00:22:56.22\00:23:01.01
life that she never questions.
She recognizes that his job has
00:23:01.04\00:23:06.95
to come first a lot of the time.
You know what, this is even very
00:23:06.99\00:23:12.87
important for pastors' wives.
Pastors' wives can be some of
00:23:12.90\00:23:17.27
the most neglected people on
earth and the pastor has so much
00:23:17.31\00:23:21.74
opportunity because God is
calling him, but if he lets his
00:23:21.78\00:23:27.05
marriage slip we're going to
be in trouble. The loss of one
00:23:27.09\00:23:31.82
pastor's family can affect
so many down through the ranks.
00:23:31.86\00:23:35.81
Because they can be the
example and set the precidents.
00:23:35.84\00:23:39.76
They are the example. They are
the shepherd, the shepherd of
00:23:39.80\00:23:41.40
the flock. Tell
the husband how to make
00:23:41.44\00:23:44.40
her feel pretty. Just
notice what she's got on.
00:23:44.43\00:23:49.81
Men need to make mental note
of when his wife gets her hair
00:23:49.84\00:23:54.17
done, her nails done, a new
dress. Even not a new dress,
00:23:54.20\00:23:58.46
take a second look at her. Maybe
her waistline looks really nice
00:23:58.49\00:24:03.40
in that outfit. Compliment her
on that waistline. The color,
00:24:03.43\00:24:08.19
what it does for her eyes.
Any little thing, simple things.
00:24:08.22\00:24:11.74
Now he was good at doing
this before they were married.
00:24:11.77\00:24:15.95
He got her to the altar. So
that's something that needs to
00:24:15.98\00:24:20.12
to be continued
after the wedding.
00:24:20.16\00:24:22.83
Romantic attention.
Romantic attention are all the
00:24:22.86\00:24:27.06
little things. If I could
hold my husband out as a shining
00:24:27.09\00:24:30.58
example of anything, he loves
to romance me and he does that
00:24:30.61\00:24:34.07
even yet. Little things.
Sometime he'll bring me a
00:24:34.10\00:24:37.71
flower. If he got me a
whole huge boquet, it's almost
00:24:37.75\00:24:41.29
overwhelming, but sometimes
he will just bring home a single
00:24:41.33\00:24:45.36
rose. That is so meaningful
to me and he brings me all
00:24:45.39\00:24:50.56
kinds of little gifts and
presents which show me that
00:24:50.59\00:24:55.69
he is thinking of me. Men need
to think romantically. What can
00:24:55.72\00:25:02.81
I bring my wife today. Just
writing a note back and forth
00:25:02.84\00:25:07.74
a card can be romantic.
00:25:07.77\00:25:09.83
Like you said, a little note
on a scratch sheet of paper.
00:25:09.86\00:25:13.91
Nowadays it can be done via
e- mail or leave a message on an
00:25:13.95\00:25:18.20
answering machine, text message
each other. These are fun little
00:25:18.24\00:25:22.46
ways to say I'm thinking
about you, I care about you.
00:25:22.50\00:25:27.58
So these are some steps or some
ways especially when a marriage
00:25:27.62\00:25:31.50
is in trouble that
you can head off divorce.
00:25:31.54\00:25:35.26
Yes. You can head off divorce
by learning about the needs of
00:25:35.30\00:25:39.78
your partner and, of course,
my second lesson is absolutely
00:25:39.82\00:25:43.84
fundamental and that is learning
to accept one another at face
00:25:43.87\00:25:47.81
value. I had quite a lesson
to learn in that myself because
00:25:47.84\00:25:52.15
after 15 years of marriage our
marriage was headed down hill
00:25:52.19\00:25:56.08
and for 15 years I had been
pointing the finger of blame at
00:25:56.11\00:25:59.76
Harry. But notice, whenever
you point the finger of blame at
00:25:59.79\00:26:03.56
somebody else you've got three
pointing back at you depending
00:26:03.60\00:26:07.33
on what you can do with
your thumb. That was at the time
00:26:07.37\00:26:11.13
in my life when I had to take
a very close self-examination,
00:26:11.17\00:26:14.90
a real close look at myself.
What was I contributing to
00:26:14.93\00:26:21.07
this relationship and it was
at this point that I recognized
00:26:21.10\00:26:24.91
that I was not responsible for
my husband's behavior; that I
00:26:24.94\00:26:28.58
was responsible for my own
behavior and that's when I did
00:26:28.61\00:26:32.18
a complete internal overhaul and
I learned how to accept Harry
00:26:32.22\00:26:37.16
at face value without
any thought of change.
00:26:37.19\00:26:40.18
That's pretty scary to
some women, because they want to
00:26:40.22\00:26:43.72
change their husbands.
Okay, now my next question is
00:26:43.75\00:26:47.18
after we've tried and done all
these things, it did not work,
00:26:47.21\00:26:50.98
the realities of divorce.
We don't have enough time so
00:26:51.02\00:26:55.57
you know you will be
back on another show, right?
00:26:55.60\00:26:58.06
All right. You agree? I agree.
Okay, thank you so much, Nancy.
00:26:58.09\00:27:01.89
I didn't cry, praise the
Lord. Thank the Lord for that.
00:27:01.92\00:27:05.42
Thank you so much for joining
us for Issues and Answers.
00:27:05.45\00:27:09.17
Remember, if you have issues,
God has all the answers and
00:27:09.20\00:27:12.73
this is your emotional outlet
to share them so feel free to
00:27:12.77\00:27:16.26
e- mail us. You can
even write to us in care of:
00:27:16.30\00:27:19.30
I'm Melissa Summers and
God bless you and keep you
00:27:27.98\00:27:29.83
until next time. Bye Bye.
00:27:29.87\00:27:35.56