Participants: Delbert Baker, Karen Thomas
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000078
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00:31 Welcome to Issues and Answers. Today we're going to have the 00:34 topic Creating Bridges in the Midst of Diversity. How do we 00:37 reach out to people that are different than we are? That is 00:40 what we're going to talk about today with our guest Dr. Delbert 00:44 Baker. He is the author of the book Make Us One. This book says 00:48 at the back of the book, at a time when technology has 00:51 brought the world's population together in a global community 00:55 the forces of separatism, tribal warfare, ethnic rivalry and 00:58 racism seem to be out of control How do we build bridges in the 01:02 midst of diversity? Welcome to the program today. 01:05 Thank you. So what is diversity? 01:07 Diversity. Diversity is dealing with differences, differences 01:13 with people, different styles, different approaches and 01:17 probably most popular that we deal with diversity relates to 01:22 age, gender, race or ethnicity, sexual 01:26 orientation or preference is 01:28 another one, learning styles and differences. These are sections 01:32 of diversity that basically can be boiled down to the word 01:36 differences. We are different and because we're different we 01:39 have to find ways of getting along with one another and 01:43 creatively building bridges so that we can better communicate 01:46 and better relate and better accomplish our mission whatever 01:50 that mission may be. 01:51 Now there's a lot of talk about people coming together in unity 01:57 these days. Does diversity include all kinds of people 02:02 coming together and accepting all kinds of differences. What 02:06 is the Christian perspective on diversity? 02:07 Well that's a great question because your philosophy toward 02:11 that would determine how you deal with diversity. If you see 02:14 diversity as being you get different people and you 02:18 assimilate then together into one basic group that would 02:21 determine how you deal with it. Now on the other hand, if you 02:25 see unity in the midst of diversity, as they say often, 02:28 that means that you can have differences and still find 02:31 commonalities or ways to unite. And I think that's what we deal 02:35 with from a Christian perspective is the fact that we 02:38 have differences and as long as these differences don't 02:41 violate the principles of the word of God, we're OK. But from 02:44 a Christian perspective, if the differences, whatever your 02:48 diversity may be, comes to a point where it smacks against 02:52 the principles as outlined by the Bible, then you've got a 02:55 challenge. Then you've got an issues of allegiance; who are 02:58 you going to follow. Are you going to follow the mores of the 03:00 world or the standards and issues that the world deals with 03:04 or are you going to submit to the rulership of God and his 03:07 word as outlined in the Bible? 03:10 Now you have been a special assistant to the president of 03:14 Loma Linda University and specifically as a director 03:18 of diversity. And you're also president of Oakwood College 03:22 which is a _ school so you have quite a broad 03:25 experience on dealing with differences. What can you say 03:28 for those that are in leadership positions and 03:31 how to handle diversity. 03:32 Well my background with diversity actually preceded my 03:35 time at Loma Linda University 03:37 when I was editor of Message Magazine we dealt with a number 03:40 of things with diversity and even prior to that my doctoral 03:43 program at Howard University, my area was organizational 03:46 communication. So a key part of that was dealing with 03:50 communication in terms of organizations. How do we 03:53 effectively communicate in a very diverse organization. 03:56 And to be affective you have to factor in differences so one 04:01 thing led to the other. Lynn Behrens who was the president 04:05 of Loma Linda University at the time I became the one in charge 04:09 of leading out in the diversity program had a wonderful vision. 04:13 Her vision was that Loma Linda University should be a model of 04:17 diversity; a Christian institution that exalts or holds 04:21 out the word of God as the principle. At the same time 04:25 though one that could deal with diverse differences. So she 04:28 brought me in and together we were able to create the 04:32 framework, the outline for the diversity program that Loma 04:36 Linda currently has. Now Les Power is the director of 04:40 diversity at this time. But from 1992 to 1996 we there had the 04:45 wonderful privilege of working at Loma Linda and establishing 04:49 a diversity program for that institution, in particular the 04:53 Medical Center in a direct way and a variety of other related 04:57 institutions. 04:58 Now what were some of the components of the program? 05:01 OK, I referred to some at the beginning. Our approach to a 05:04 diversity had to deal with learning differences for one. 05:08 People learn differently and if a faculty member, if an 05:12 instructor or a lecturer understands the differences 05:15 in learning styles that's helpful. If you think that 05:18 everyone's going to learn in exactly the same way that's 05:21 problematic because you would have a style that kind of goes 05:24 in a certain direction and so you're not flexible enough to 05:27 deal with differences there. The other issue had to do with 05:32 age; the fact that as people age as they get older there's a 05:35 different style, a different approach to life. Can we deal 05:38 with that or do we want to block everyone in the same kind of 05:41 way from the early years, the middle years, the later years. 05:45 And so there's an appreciation for that and the fact that we 05:48 have to be accepting of all the different ages. OK then there 05:52 is the international or the cultural diversity that dealt 05:55 with people from different countries. I think that's 05:58 probably the more obvious of the diversity areas because you 06:00 know we know different people from different cultures. They 06:03 come in with that. So that was one. Then there's the issue of 06:06 our religious diversity and Loma Linda dealt with that. It's a 06:09 Seventh-day Adventist institution but it's still 06:12 respectful and accepting of other religious faiths or 06:17 beliefs. Then we dealt with ethnic or racial diversity. It's 06:20 probably one of the hot ones, you know. The fact that there's 06:23 the white/black issue, the brown /yellow issue. How do we deal 06:25 with different people who often compete for the same resources 06:28 and have different backgrounds and how do we bring them 06:32 together in the spirit of Christian unity and love and 06:35 make this thing work. That was a challenging area. So those were 06:38 some of the main areas that we looked at there and probably the 06:41 main areas in Christian circles. The additional area that 06:47 probably is sensitive because of different views and philosophies 06:52 is sexual, the sexual diversity area. That deals with gays and 06:56 lesbians, the whole issue of the homosexual lifestyle. It deals 07:00 with how do you deal with that in light of the principles of 07:05 the word of God. So Loma Linda had a very clear position toward 07:09 that. Basically it said, we are tolerant and respectful of all 07:14 persons and what their belief is, however, we espouse the 07:19 sexual model as outlined by the word of God which is 07:24 heterosexual. So that's basically the summary of the 07:28 different approaches to diversity and any one of those 07:32 topics probably could take a lot of our time. 07:35 Well let me ask you going now from the higher education level 07:40 of policy and procedures that are necessary to run an 07:43 institution now, bringing it to say a church level, a local 07:49 congregation. How is the best way to handle your church 07:54 becoming diverse. Cities, neighborhoods change. 07:59 Populations, ethnic groups will come and shift and go. What is 08:04 the model for that? 08:05 Well there are a number of ways we can look at that. I'll share 08:09 with you a word that many of our viewers may not be 08:11 acquainted with, it was new to me some years ago. I met this 08:16 wonderful person who was working with the diversity 08:19 program at the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. His name 08:22 was Eric Jolly, he was a Native American and in fact we invited 08:27 him to Loma Linda to do a program. And he shared with us 08:30 the word that I think is a very powerful one that relates to how 08:33 to effectively deal with diversity and he said the 08:37 diversity is effortful. And I think it's self-explanatory but 08:42 the point is it takes energy. It doesn't just happen. A lot 08:46 of people just say well I just love the Lord, I love one 08:50 another and therefore it's all going to happen. No, no, not so. 08:53 Diversity is probably one of the most challenging aspects of our 08:56 experience and the human experience because we like to be 08:59 with people who like us. We like to be with people who like us 09:02 and who think what we think, do what we do and so forth. And if 09:05 we meet someone who doesn't do that it often throws us off, our 09:08 equilibrium gets thrown off. You know how does a person do what 09:11 they're doing here and so forth. And so diversity says you have 09:15 to kind of go out of that and be appreciative and aware of people 09:18 who are different and it takes effort so it's effortful. There 09:21 are a few words we want to look at. One is sensitivity. Dealing 09:25 with diversity you have to be sensitive to the reality of 09:28 diversity, of differences. If you simply say well they all 09:30 look the same to me, I love everybody and I don't see what 09:33 color you are, I don't see what gender you are, and as you say 09:37 that, that may be true from the standpoint of you're not holding 09:40 that against me but that's a part of who I am. You're a 09:45 female, I'm a male. A person is from this area, from that area, 09:48 they're older, they're younger, they're whatever ethnic group 09:52 they are. So you have to factor that in and be sensitive to that 09:55 Don't let it be an obstacle or a stumbling block but be sensitive 09:58 to it. And then we should be accepting of it. The fact is as 10:01 long as it's not a violation of the word of God we should be 10:04 willing to accept the differences that God has 10:07 allowed and God has blessed the world with. Then we should be 10:11 somewhat, and I have to be careful with this word when we 10:14 say tolerant, because a lot of things come under tolerance. 10:17 People do a lot of bad things under the word tolerance or they 10:20 can be very awkward or uncomfortable with the word 10:22 tolerance. But there is something to it in that if we're 10:26 tolerant that means that if you're different I can tolerate 10:30 your differences. So some of the things you do may annoy me but I 10:34 can deal with that because you're a child of God, I'm a 10:37 child of God and we both have a right to be who we are. So those 10:41 are some of the principles that a person can use in the local 10:44 congregation, in whatever school or company or whatever it is. 10:48 These are some working principles that would help guide 10:51 you. But it takes more than that too. You go back to the word 10:54 effortful. You've got to get out of your circle. You've got to 10:57 get out of your little small world. I'm not talking about you 11:00 Karen. Say whoever the person is you know. 11:01 It could be anybody right? If you've had maybe one 11:04 particular background in which you've been raised. I just 11:09 happen to be raised near Andrews University where there's a lot 11:11 of diversity, but a lot of people don't have that 11:13 opportunity. Maybe they just grew up in a neighborhood where 11:17 there's one kind of person or beyond race how about economics? 11:21 That's right, that's another one And so you've got to move out of 11:25 that circle whatever that is. I suggest things like invite some 11:30 to your home for dinner who is very different than you. 11:32 OK, let's just kind of walk through this now from the church 11:37 down to the individual. What would be the best way, because 11:41 sometimes people wonder you know well can you say something 11:45 that's not appropriate or you know for a person maybe who has 11:49 not had that kind of a background where you're used to 11:51 dealing with people who are very different than you are. What 11:55 kind of advice do you give? 11:56 Well I think it's clear that you know a lot about the area of 11:59 diversity. Those are some of the key areas that a person would 12:01 want to be sensitive to. Probably the greatest 12:07 safeguard in the area of diversity is probably the word 12:10 sincerity. If you are sincerely seeking to reach out that covers 12:16 a multitude of snafus and blunders. You know, everything 12:21 from those people to you people to the way you do it. There 12:25 could be a offensive to your group. In the public setting the 12:29 standard's a little higher and so if you're the leader they 12:31 anticipate that you'll know something about diversity. 12:33 you won't make the politically 12:37 inept statements. People make them all the time. 12:40 I know and I'm not into this political correctness. I know a 12:43 lot of our viewers may have different views on this but I 12:46 think that the leader has got to be sensitive. They have to know 12:49 what works. You can't just say things that offend people and 12:52 just throw them off and... You do a little study and a little 12:56 listening it will help you to be more in tune with how to say 12:59 something and how not to say it. You know, not to be a 13:03 stumbling block if you don't have to be. At the same time, I 13:07 say on the side of the person who is receiving the sent 13:10 message from the speaker, that is if they see the sincerity of 13:15 the person maybe they can give a little grace and give a little 13:18 room so even if the person says something that's not exactly 13:22 right they won't mark them off immediately. So sensitivity is 13:27 an important part on the side of the receiver but being aware and 13:31 educated is important on the side of the sender, the one who 13:34 is speaking. Now let me tell you what we're doing at 13:38 Oakwood. A pretty exciting program. The point you made at 13:41 the very beginning, you said here you are coming from Loma 13:44 Linda University and you were in charge of the diversity 13:46 program and going to Oakwood College which is predominantly a 13:50 black school. Persons of color attend there. How did you work 13:53 that out? Well first of all Oakwood is open enrollment so 13:56 anybody can come who wants to. So the fact that it's 13:59 predominantly black is not by choice. Those are the ones who 14:03 go there. We have about six or seven percent white persons 14:07 the Caucasians who are attending Oakwood and the number is 14:10 growing. We encourage diversity at Oakwood as well as anywhere 14:14 else. So that's the point there. But what we did... I have a 14:17 pride in Oakwood, I'm a graduate of Oakwood, I graduated in 1975. 14:20 So when I became president in 1996 I said we've got to do 14:25 something about this thing. So diversity isn't naturally 14:28 happening at Oakwood meaning that we don't have these large 14:32 numbers of different racial groups coming. So let's import 14:36 diversity. How's that for a notion, import it. So Gordon 14:40 Beitz, the president of Southern Adventist University 14:43 and I got together and we were brainstorming... In fact it was 14:46 kind of a wonderful experience, I shouldn't say wonderful, I 14:49 should say providential experience. We were traveling 14:52 with a number of individuals from the Southern Union in these 14:57 Southern Asian countries. We happened to be in Cambodia when 15:02 the coup took place a few years ago in Phnom Pehn. And Gordon 15:06 and myself along with the other presidents were locked into that 15:10 hotel in downtown Phnom Pehn when the coup was taking place, 15:14 the bombs were taking place. Literally Friday night and 15:17 Saturday we were locked in that hotel and we were praying, we 15:20 were praying. It was a very dangerous situation. It was 15:24 there that we said, listen we've got these days here, we were 15:26 locked in there about four or five days. We couldn't leave the 15:28 country. We said let's plan it now. So the two of us got 15:30 together and we began to develop this idea of diversity. How can 15:33 we import it into our campuses. 15:34 See that's a whole other program how with bombs going on all 15:38 around you, you guys were doing your work. 15:41 God was with us and we worked well. So we came up with what we 15:45 call DEEP Diversity Educational Exchange Program. It's going 15:49 on four years now. Basically what we did, we took seven 15:52 students from the Oakwood campus persons of color and seven 15:56 persons from the Southern Adventist University campus 15:59 Anglo-Americans, Caucasians and we swapped them for one semester 16:04 each year. We literally had the blacks go to Southern and the 16:08 whites to go to Oakwood and what we did. What we did was we kind 16:11 of created a diversity program to increase the sensitivity of 16:14 our campuses. Are we aware of the issues? How does another 16:18 group look at what we do. And it's done some wonderful things 16:21 for us. We've been doing this for 11 years now and now we're 16:23 even involved in our administration 16:25 we're having retreats together with the 16:27 administrative teams and we're even working with faculty 16:30 changing as well. So I'm just using this as an example, an 16:33 illustration to say that with creativity churches can do 16:37 wonderful things. When I was a pastor we would swap pulpits. 16:41 and don't simply swap the same. Don't _ say no. They say 16:45 well every choir come to our church. That's good, but do 16:48 more than just sing. Do more than just playing sports. 16:52 I mean get together for meaningful discussions. Share 16:55 the preaching of the word, pastor swapping and Bible 16:57 study groups and activities together so people can get to 17:01 know one another on an effective personal, one-to-one basis. 17:05 That's a more powerful factor that the Bible brings out. Love 17:09 comes in. You see love says that when we understand we have 17:13 differences, we're different, we understand that, when we see 17:17 that you're OK in spite of the differences, you're a child of 17:21 God and have problems dealing with issues like I do. By so 17:25 doing we can build bridges, via love and via this 17:28 interpersonal relationship in ways that we never dreamed of 17:31 before. So there's some exciting things, Karen, that a person and 17:33 a church and a company can do. 17:35 OK, now going to witnessing to people who are very different 17:40 than you are. Now the Seventh- day Adventist lifestyle is 17:44 pretty much one that's based in the Bible and compared to the 17:49 lifestyle of the world it's very different. How can a Christian 17:53 even if the person is not a Seventh-day Adventist, how 17:55 can a Christian reach out to say the homosexual community, to the 18:01 drug community, I mean people who are involved in drugs and 18:04 maybe to the rich, to the poor? Give us some of those kinds of 18:06 examples. Hot topic there, a real tough 18:09 one there. Well there are ways to do it. There are definitely 18:14 ways to do it. It takes more thought and more planning than 18:18 the normal areas of diversity. Because the issues of the gay/ 18:23 lesbian lifestyle is one that is so controverted in the 18:27 Christian community. I think when you're talking about the 18:30 vices, when you're talking about drugs, smoking and the immoral 18:35 lifestyle, I think those are very clear. I mean Christians 18:37 know that and the non- Christians know that. 18:39 But the one with the gay/ lesbian lifestyle, that's a 18:42 little more sensitive. 18:43 Well why do you think people categorize those separately? 18:46 _ sin. I think we rate sin. I think we say this 18:50 sin is worse than another sin. And there is still the stigma 18:53 attached to the gay/lesbian lifestyle. Christians struggle 18:57 with it. They don't know how to deal with it and many people 19:00 feel uncomfortable with it and so therefore when one is 19:02 around them they get homophobia. They become very negative, very 19:07 discriminatory. They react in a way that is not Christ like. They 19:12 will in many cases become a bad witness by the way they deal 19:19 with the gay/lesbian group. You know, I'm sure you plan to do 19:23 a subject of this alone and bring some individuals in and 19:27 talk about this, but let me just share a point or two that I 19:30 think might be helpful in a cursory sense when a person 19:34 is dealing with this. That is first you've got to take away 19:37 the fear of it. I mean you can't look at homosexual and fear them 19:43 or like they're dirty, or they're not a human being. 19:46 That is not the way that Christ dealt with people who were out 19:51 of the mainstream. We have to see them as children of God, 19:55 people who God loves, that he wants in his kingdom. And if we 19:59 have that basic understanding when we go to them, we won't 20:02 have the... we won't exude this negativism, this sense of I'm 20:06 better than you. You poor thing. I would help you by coming your 20:09 way and I'll talk to you if you can get yourself together. 20:11 Number two, we need to understand that in particular 20:15 the gay/lesbian lifestyle may be more complicated than some 20:20 of the other clear-cut sins. There's often history to it and 20:24 there may be family issues or other issues that impact. So we 20:27 shouldn't come to it was a pat simple answer. We say well 20:30 brother get your life together. You just accept Jesus Christ 20:34 and that's it. You drop everything. It's not that simple 20:39 so often. And the third thing is you need to exercise love, 20:45 accepting love. That you love that person and that even though 20:49 they have a lifestyle that you know is not consistent with the 20:53 word of God and you're going to work on that. That you want to 20:57 show love and concern for that person. Reach out to them and 21:01 let them see the unconditional love that you 21:03 have for them and you still respect them as a person of 21:07 dignity and a child of God. So with those three points and with 21:11 a background, I think you share the gospel. I think you talk 21:15 about Jesus, you talk about his love, you talk of his wonderful 21:19 accepting posture. You talk about righteousness by faith. 21:22 You talk about heaven to gain and a hell to shun. I mean you 21:25 go ahead and witness and you do the thing that the Lord 21:27 impresses you with. 21:28 Now what about reaching out to the Muslim community? 21:31 Oh the Muslim community. That's very diverse especially in light 21:35 of 9/11, September 11. I think we have some real challenges as 21:40 it relates to people from other countries and there's this fear 21:44 factor tied in with anger and rage and tied in with a sense of 21:48 frustration that we've gone through since September 11. 21:50 As we all know, the world is a very different place than it was 21:54 September 10. Many individuals said that following that when 21:59 they got on the plane they start looking at the names of 22:03 individuals who they're with or how they looked or... Did they 22:07 look like they're suspicious? So we have to be very careful of 22:11 how we view them and feel like because of what happened, and 22:16 we know that the individuals involved in the attack on the 22:20 World Trade Center were of a certain cultural background and 22:24 religious belief that we don't globalize and generalize and say 22:28 that everyone's in the same category. I would say the same 22:33 point. We have to approach it in a very rational, a very thinking 22:36 manner and know that everyone's not involved in it any more than 22:39 McVey when he was involved in the situation in Oklahoma City 22:43 at the federal building there. I mean, didn't think it's all 22:46 persons who were in the armed forces or who looked like him or 22:49 who came from his background. You didn't do it there so we 22:52 shouldn't do it as it relates to Islam. I think the principle is 22:56 operative, it stays the same there, the sense of 22:59 understanding. You know the Bible says in Proverbs, 23:01 wonderful book of Proverbs, it says understanding is the best 23:04 thing in the world, get understanding and I think 23:06 that's what we really need to focus on. Diversity requires 23:08 that we have understanding and it causes us to think out of the 23:12 box, think out of our personal box and seek to be sensitive 23:16 to different people. 23:17 What role do you think diversity will have in the last days? 23:20 Oh boy that's a great question. Love in diversity and love in 23:24 the last days is a powerful topic that we really have to 23:28 think about more. I believe God is going to do something 23:31 marvelous in this church and our country as time winds down and 23:35 it's going to have to do with love, people setting aside their 23:38 differences, forgetting who they are, their hang-ups, their 23:42 complexes, their superiority complexes, their inferiority 23:45 complexes and coming together to meet one another on a personal 23:48 basis. And the individual that God is going to use is the one 23:52 who is going to be sensitive and willing to set aside their 23:56 differences, to reach out and to love one another in a genuine 23:59 authentic way. There's power in that, there's so much we can 24:04 do, but we ought not wait until the final signals, Karen. We 24:08 need to start doing it now. Churches and companies and 24:11 groups and individuals need to figure how can I show my love 24:15 to one another now. How can I practice what God wants me to 24:18 do and how can we really see love as a distinguishing 24:23 characteristic for Christians; they'll know us by our love. 24:26 And when we start practicing that now I believe that's going 24:29 to be one of the sanctifying elements that will help us to 24:32 get ready for the soon coming of Jesus Christ, by loving one 24:36 another. Because we know that this love aspect as it ties in 24:40 with diversity doesn't end with this life. It actually continues 24:44 in the life to come. If you ever look at the Spirit of Prophecy 24:48 Ellen White talks about the spirit of unity and peace and 24:52 love in heaven, in eternity. How we all come together with grand 24:56 enterprises, noble tasks. We'll be working together for eternity 25:00 What exciting things God has for us. 25:02 That is incredible and something to look forward to so we have to 25:06 kind of get it together down here, right? 25:08 We start down here, that's right. 25:10 Well, I've really enjoyed the topic that you've presented 25:14 today on diversity and encouraging us to reach out to 25:18 different types of people. No matter where you may be watching 25:23 this program anywhere in the world, conflict is going to 25:28 exist because we are different and we do need the Holy Spirit 25:32 to come and touch our hearts and to give us the capacity to 25:35 expand and to do some of these great programs that you have 25:39 implemented at Loma Linda and at Oakwood and churches and 25:42 community groups. At this time would you offer prayer for us 25:46 please. I'd love to. 25:47 Our Father, we thank you for this opportunity to talk about 25:49 this important topic. We ask for the power of the Holy Spirit 25:53 to bless us personally with our families, with our companies, 25:57 with our churches. We thank you for this program that has given 26:01 us the opportunity to talk about it. We ask that what we talked 26:04 today and what we have found in your word might inspire us to 26:08 reach out and love one another in the true way that you love us 26:12 and that you modeled your love for us. Bless us as we prepare 26:16 for your soon coming. Bless us to spend eternity with you for 26:19 we pray this in the name of Jesus Christ our Savior, Amen. 26:23 Amen. Thank you so much for coming to our program Dr. Baker. 26:27 I certainly enjoyed the topic of diversity and for those of 26:30 you who would like to get a copy of this book, the book is 26:36 Make Us One: Celebrating Spiritual Unity in the Midst of 26:40 Cultural Diversity, Removing Barriers and Building Bridges. 26:45 Delbert W. Baker, PhD, editor. You can get information about 26:50 this book by going to the 3ABN website www.3ABN.org. 26:58 And you can find out how to get hold of the book, how to get in 27:01 contact with Dr. Baker. He is, again, located at Oakwood 27:05 College. You can call his office if you would like for him to 27:08 come and to speak to your community or group about the 27:12 subject of diversity. Or you can call the 800 number, 27:16 1-800-752-3226 and ask for materials. If you have not met 27:20 the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior and would like to invite 27:24 him into your heart at this time, we encourage that you call 27:27 the 800 number. We have materials that you need and that 27:29 we would like to place in your hand. The beauty is that God 27:34 made us all and it is his desire to make us one. And that is what 27:39 we want to have happen today in this program. The purpose of 27:43 presenting diversity is not to emphasize differences but to 27:47 show that God is the creator of all of us and that it is he who 27:51 can make us one. Thank you again for coming to Issues and 27:54 Answers and watching the program and may God bless you 27:57 until next time. Have a great day. |
Revised 2015-02-24