¤ ¤
00:00:02.00\00:00:31.36
Welcome to Issues and Answers.
Today we're going to have the
00:00:31.40\00:00:34.59
topic Creating Bridges in the
Midst of Diversity. How do we
00:00:34.63\00:00:37.48
reach out to people that are
different than we are? That is
00:00:37.51\00:00:40.55
what we're going to talk about
today with our guest Dr. Delbert
00:00:40.59\00:00:44.51
Baker. He is the author of the
book Make Us One. This book says
00:00:44.55\00:00:48.44
at the back of the book,
at a time when technology has
00:00:48.47\00:00:51.55
brought the world's population
together in a global community
00:00:51.59\00:00:55.21
the forces of separatism, tribal
warfare, ethnic rivalry and
00:00:55.25\00:00:58.91
racism seem to be out of control
How do we build bridges in the
00:00:58.94\00:01:02.57
midst of diversity?
Welcome to the program today.
00:01:02.60\00:01:05.10
Thank you. So what is diversity?
00:01:05.13\00:01:07.27
Diversity. Diversity is dealing
with differences, differences
00:01:07.31\00:01:13.28
with people, different
styles, different approaches and
00:01:13.31\00:01:17.61
probably most popular that we
deal with diversity relates to
00:01:17.65\00:01:22.43
age, gender, race
or ethnicity, sexual
00:01:22.46\00:01:26.44
orientation or preference is
00:01:26.48\00:01:28.52
another one, learning styles and
differences. These are sections
00:01:28.55\00:01:32.47
of diversity that basically
can be boiled down to the word
00:01:32.50\00:01:36.00
differences. We are different
and because we're different we
00:01:36.03\00:01:39.50
have to find ways of getting
along with one another and
00:01:39.53\00:01:43.45
creatively building bridges so
that we can better communicate
00:01:43.49\00:01:46.75
and better relate and better
accomplish our mission whatever
00:01:46.78\00:01:50.01
that mission may be.
00:01:50.04\00:01:51.07
Now there's a lot of talk about
people coming together in unity
00:01:51.10\00:01:57.08
these days. Does diversity
include all kinds of people
00:01:57.11\00:02:02.74
coming together and accepting
all kinds of differences. What
00:02:02.78\00:02:06.50
is the Christian
perspective on diversity?
00:02:06.53\00:02:07.89
Well that's a great question
because your philosophy toward
00:02:07.93\00:02:11.09
that would determine how you
deal with diversity. If you see
00:02:11.12\00:02:14.25
diversity as being you
get different people and you
00:02:14.28\00:02:18.07
assimilate then together
into one basic group that would
00:02:18.11\00:02:21.69
determine how you deal with it.
Now on the other hand, if you
00:02:21.73\00:02:24.98
see unity in the midst of
diversity, as they say often,
00:02:25.01\00:02:28.44
that means that you can
have differences and still find
00:02:28.48\00:02:31.84
commonalities or ways to unite.
And I think that's what we deal
00:02:31.88\00:02:35.31
with from a Christian
perspective is the fact that we
00:02:35.34\00:02:38.26
have differences and as
long as these differences don't
00:02:38.30\00:02:41.15
violate the principles of the
word of God, we're OK. But from
00:02:41.19\00:02:44.37
a Christian perspective, if
the differences, whatever your
00:02:44.40\00:02:48.37
diversity may be, comes to a
point where it smacks against
00:02:48.41\00:02:52.28
the principles as outlined
by the Bible, then you've got a
00:02:52.31\00:02:55.38
challenge. Then you've got
an issues of allegiance; who are
00:02:55.42\00:02:58.03
you going to follow. Are you
going to follow the mores of the
00:02:58.06\00:03:00.60
world or the standards and
issues that the world deals with
00:03:00.64\00:03:04.03
or are you going to submit
to the rulership of God and his
00:03:04.06\00:03:07.42
word as outlined in the Bible?
00:03:07.45\00:03:10.30
Now you have been a special
assistant to the president of
00:03:10.34\00:03:14.77
Loma Linda University and
specifically as a director
00:03:14.80\00:03:18.54
of diversity. And you're also
president of Oakwood College
00:03:18.85\00:03:22.08
which is a _ school
so you have quite a broad
00:03:22.11\00:03:25.81
experience on dealing with
differences. What can you say
00:03:25.85\00:03:28.83
for those that are in
leadership positions and
00:03:28.86\00:03:31.15
how to handle diversity.
00:03:31.18\00:03:32.49
Well my background with
diversity actually preceded my
00:03:32.52\00:03:35.96
time at Loma Linda University
00:03:35.99\00:03:37.70
when I was editor of Message
Magazine we dealt with a number
00:03:37.74\00:03:40.94
of things with diversity and
even prior to that my doctoral
00:03:40.98\00:03:43.92
program at Howard University,
my area was organizational
00:03:43.95\00:03:46.90
communication. So a key
part of that was dealing with
00:03:46.94\00:03:50.10
communication in terms
of organizations. How do we
00:03:50.13\00:03:53.22
effectively communicate in
a very diverse organization.
00:03:53.26\00:03:56.78
And to be affective you have
to factor in differences so one
00:03:56.82\00:04:01.07
thing led to the other. Lynn
Behrens who was the president
00:04:01.10\00:04:05.28
of Loma Linda University at the
time I became the one in charge
00:04:05.32\00:04:09.27
of leading out in the diversity
program had a wonderful vision.
00:04:09.31\00:04:13.60
Her vision was that Loma Linda
University should be a model of
00:04:13.64\00:04:17.90
diversity; a Christian
institution that exalts or holds
00:04:17.93\00:04:21.95
out the word of God as the
principle. At the same time
00:04:21.99\00:04:25.94
though one that could deal
with diverse differences. So she
00:04:25.98\00:04:28.38
brought me in and together
we were able to create the
00:04:28.41\00:04:32.87
framework, the outline for
the diversity program that Loma
00:04:32.91\00:04:36.63
Linda currently has. Now
Les Power is the director of
00:04:36.66\00:04:40.74
diversity at this time. But from
1992 to 1996 we there had the
00:04:40.78\00:04:45.37
wonderful privilege of working
at Loma Linda and establishing
00:04:45.40\00:04:49.53
a diversity program for that
institution, in particular the
00:04:49.56\00:04:53.66
Medical Center in a direct way
and a variety of other related
00:04:53.69\00:04:57.76
institutions.
00:04:57.79\00:04:58.82
Now what were some of the
components of the program?
00:04:58.85\00:05:01.33
OK, I referred to some at
the beginning. Our approach to a
00:05:01.37\00:05:04.17
diversity had to deal with
learning differences for one.
00:05:04.21\00:05:08.39
People learn differently
and if a faculty member, if an
00:05:08.43\00:05:12.16
instructor or a lecturer
understands the differences
00:05:12.20\00:05:15.49
in learning styles that's
helpful. If you think that
00:05:15.52\00:05:18.35
everyone's going to learn
in exactly the same way that's
00:05:18.38\00:05:21.48
problematic because you would
have a style that kind of goes
00:05:21.52\00:05:24.31
in a certain direction and
so you're not flexible enough to
00:05:24.34\00:05:27.51
deal with differences there.
The other issue had to do with
00:05:27.54\00:05:32.07
age; the fact that as people
age as they get older there's a
00:05:32.11\00:05:35.54
different style, a different
approach to life. Can we deal
00:05:35.57\00:05:38.84
with that or do we want to block
everyone in the same kind of
00:05:38.87\00:05:41.84
way from the early years, the
middle years, the later years.
00:05:41.88\00:05:45.28
And so there's an appreciation
for that and the fact that we
00:05:45.31\00:05:48.77
have to be accepting of all the
different ages. OK then there
00:05:48.81\00:05:52.34
is the international or the
cultural diversity that dealt
00:05:52.38\00:05:55.88
with people from different
countries. I think that's
00:05:55.91\00:05:58.17
probably the more obvious of
the diversity areas because you
00:05:58.21\00:06:00.86
know we know different people
from different cultures. They
00:06:00.89\00:06:03.81
come in with that. So that was
one. Then there's the issue of
00:06:03.85\00:06:06.89
our religious diversity and Loma
Linda dealt with that. It's a
00:06:06.92\00:06:09.93
Seventh-day Adventist
institution but it's still
00:06:09.96\00:06:12.44
respectful and accepting
of other religious faiths or
00:06:12.48\00:06:17.19
beliefs. Then we dealt with
ethnic or racial diversity. It's
00:06:17.23\00:06:20.23
probably one of the hot ones,
you know. The fact that there's
00:06:20.27\00:06:23.08
the white/black issue, the brown
/yellow issue. How do we deal
00:06:23.11\00:06:25.94
with different people who often
compete for the same resources
00:06:25.97\00:06:28.77
and have different backgrounds
and how do we bring them
00:06:28.80\00:06:32.05
together in the spirit of
Christian unity and love and
00:06:32.08\00:06:35.26
make this thing work. That was a
challenging area. So those were
00:06:35.30\00:06:38.51
some of the main areas that we
looked at there and probably the
00:06:38.55\00:06:41.73
main areas in Christian circles.
The additional area that
00:06:41.76\00:06:47.58
probably is sensitive because of
different views and philosophies
00:06:47.62\00:06:52.26
is sexual, the sexual diversity
area. That deals with gays and
00:06:52.30\00:06:56.85
lesbians, the whole issue of the
homosexual lifestyle. It deals
00:06:56.88\00:07:00.51
with how do you deal with that
in light of the principles of
00:07:00.54\00:07:05.05
the word of God. So Loma Linda
had a very clear position toward
00:07:05.08\00:07:09.83
that. Basically it said, we are
tolerant and respectful of all
00:07:09.87\00:07:14.59
persons and what their belief
is, however, we espouse the
00:07:14.62\00:07:19.49
sexual model as outlined
by the word of God which is
00:07:19.52\00:07:24.31
heterosexual. So that's
basically the summary of the
00:07:24.34\00:07:28.33
different approaches to
diversity and any one of those
00:07:28.37\00:07:32.33
topics probably could
take a lot of our time.
00:07:32.36\00:07:35.59
Well let me ask you going now
from the higher education level
00:07:35.63\00:07:40.02
of policy and procedures
that are necessary to run an
00:07:40.05\00:07:43.69
institution now, bringing it
to say a church level, a local
00:07:43.73\00:07:49.18
congregation. How is the
best way to handle your church
00:07:49.21\00:07:54.63
becoming diverse.
Cities, neighborhoods change.
00:07:54.66\00:07:59.78
Populations, ethnic groups will
come and shift and go. What is
00:07:59.82\00:08:04.25
the model for that?
00:08:04.28\00:08:05.45
Well there are a number of ways
we can look at that. I'll share
00:08:05.49\00:08:09.45
with you a word that
many of our viewers may not be
00:08:09.48\00:08:11.72
acquainted with, it was new
to me some years ago. I met this
00:08:11.76\00:08:16.81
wonderful person who was
working with the diversity
00:08:16.84\00:08:19.66
program at the University of
Nebraska in Lincoln. His name
00:08:19.70\00:08:22.17
was Eric Jolly, he was a Native
American and in fact we invited
00:08:22.21\00:08:27.89
him to Loma Linda to do a
program. And he shared with us
00:08:27.92\00:08:30.14
the word that I think is a very
powerful one that relates to how
00:08:30.18\00:08:33.33
to effectively deal with
diversity and he said the
00:08:33.36\00:08:37.49
diversity is effortful. And I
think it's self-explanatory but
00:08:37.53\00:08:42.32
the point is it takes energy.
It doesn't just happen. A lot
00:08:42.35\00:08:46.22
of people just say well I
just love the Lord, I love one
00:08:46.26\00:08:50.06
another and therefore it's all
going to happen. No, no, not so.
00:08:50.10\00:08:53.43
Diversity is probably one of the
most challenging aspects of our
00:08:53.47\00:08:56.77
experience and the human
experience because we like to be
00:08:56.80\00:08:59.04
with people who like us. We like
to be with people who like us
00:08:59.08\00:09:02.69
and who think what we think, do
what we do and so forth. And if
00:09:02.72\00:09:05.85
we meet someone who doesn't do
that it often throws us off, our
00:09:05.89\00:09:08.65
equilibrium gets thrown off. You
know how does a person do what
00:09:08.69\00:09:11.53
they're doing here and so forth.
And so diversity says you have
00:09:11.56\00:09:15.04
to kind of go out of that and be
appreciative and aware of people
00:09:15.07\00:09:18.22
who are different and it takes
effort so it's effortful. There
00:09:18.26\00:09:21.66
are a few words we want to look
at. One is sensitivity. Dealing
00:09:21.69\00:09:25.06
with diversity you have to
be sensitive to the reality of
00:09:25.09\00:09:28.09
diversity, of differences.
If you simply say well they all
00:09:28.12\00:09:30.73
look the same to me, I love
everybody and I don't see what
00:09:30.76\00:09:33.58
color you are, I don't see what
gender you are, and as you say
00:09:33.62\00:09:37.18
that, that may be true from the
standpoint of you're not holding
00:09:37.22\00:09:40.75
that against me but that's
a part of who I am. You're a
00:09:40.78\00:09:45.17
female, I'm a male. A person is
from this area, from that area,
00:09:45.21\00:09:48.56
they're older, they're younger,
they're whatever ethnic group
00:09:48.60\00:09:52.06
they are. So you have to factor
that in and be sensitive to that
00:09:52.10\00:09:55.38
Don't let it be an obstacle or a
stumbling block but be sensitive
00:09:55.42\00:09:58.67
to it. And then we should be
accepting of it. The fact is as
00:09:58.70\00:10:01.72
long as it's not a violation
of the word of God we should be
00:10:01.76\00:10:04.75
willing to accept the
differences that God has
00:10:04.78\00:10:07.30
allowed and God has blessed the
world with. Then we should be
00:10:07.34\00:10:10.98
somewhat, and I have to be
careful with this word when we
00:10:11.01\00:10:13.97
say tolerant, because a lot
of things come under tolerance.
00:10:14.01\00:10:17.10
People do a lot of bad things
under the word tolerance or they
00:10:17.14\00:10:20.20
can be very awkward or
uncomfortable with the word
00:10:20.23\00:10:22.29
tolerance. But there is
something to it in that if we're
00:10:22.33\00:10:26.22
tolerant that means that if
you're different I can tolerate
00:10:26.26\00:10:30.08
your differences. So some of the
things you do may annoy me but I
00:10:30.12\00:10:34.91
can deal with that because
you're a child of God, I'm a
00:10:34.94\00:10:37.08
child of God and we both have a
right to be who we are. So those
00:10:37.12\00:10:41.10
are some of the principles that
a person can use in the local
00:10:41.14\00:10:44.94
congregation, in whatever school
or company or whatever it is.
00:10:44.98\00:10:48.75
These are some working
principles that would help guide
00:10:48.78\00:10:51.01
you. But it takes more than that
too. You go back to the word
00:10:51.05\00:10:54.23
effortful. You've got to get out
of your circle. You've got to
00:10:54.27\00:10:57.20
get out of your little small
world. I'm not talking about you
00:10:57.23\00:11:00.13
Karen. Say whoever
the person is you know.
00:11:00.16\00:11:01.90
It could be anybody
right? If you've had maybe one
00:11:01.94\00:11:04.90
particular background in
which you've been raised. I just
00:11:04.94\00:11:08.98
happen to be raised near Andrews
University where there's a lot
00:11:09.02\00:11:11.89
of diversity, but a lot
of people don't have that
00:11:11.92\00:11:13.80
opportunity. Maybe they just
grew up in a neighborhood where
00:11:13.84\00:11:17.86
there's one kind of person or
beyond race how about economics?
00:11:17.90\00:11:21.77
That's right, that's another one
And so you've got to move out of
00:11:21.80\00:11:25.93
that circle whatever that is. I
suggest things like invite some
00:11:25.97\00:11:30.07
to your home for dinner
who is very different than you.
00:11:30.10\00:11:32.55
OK, let's just kind of walk
through this now from the church
00:11:32.59\00:11:37.34
down to the individual. What
would be the best way, because
00:11:37.37\00:11:41.15
sometimes people wonder you
know well can you say something
00:11:41.19\00:11:45.31
that's not appropriate or you
know for a person maybe who has
00:11:45.35\00:11:49.44
not had that kind of a
background where you're used to
00:11:49.47\00:11:51.69
dealing with people who are very
different than you are. What
00:11:51.73\00:11:55.18
kind of advice do you give?
00:11:55.21\00:11:56.30
Well I think it's clear that
you know a lot about the area of
00:11:56.34\00:11:59.08
diversity. Those are some of the
key areas that a person would
00:11:59.12\00:12:01.83
want to be sensitive
to. Probably the greatest
00:12:01.86\00:12:07.18
safeguard in the area of
diversity is probably the word
00:12:07.22\00:12:10.88
sincerity. If you are sincerely
seeking to reach out that covers
00:12:10.92\00:12:16.61
a multitude of snafus and
blunders. You know, everything
00:12:16.64\00:12:21.22
from those people to you people
to the way you do it. There
00:12:21.26\00:12:25.17
could be a offensive to your
group. In the public setting the
00:12:25.21\00:12:29.00
standard's a little higher
and so if you're the leader they
00:12:29.03\00:12:31.42
anticipate that you'll
know something about diversity.
00:12:31.46\00:12:33.82
you won't make the politically
00:12:33.85\00:12:37.12
inept statements.
People make them all the time.
00:12:37.15\00:12:40.14
I know and I'm not into this
political correctness. I know a
00:12:40.18\00:12:43.52
lot of our viewers may have
different views on this but I
00:12:43.56\00:12:46.83
think that the leader has got to
be sensitive. They have to know
00:12:46.87\00:12:49.79
what works. You can't just say
things that offend people and
00:12:49.83\00:12:52.92
just throw them off and... You
do a little study and a little
00:12:52.95\00:12:56.40
listening it will help you to
be more in tune with how to say
00:12:56.44\00:12:59.86
something and how not to
say it. You know, not to be a
00:12:59.89\00:13:03.88
stumbling block if you don't
have to be. At the same time, I
00:13:03.92\00:13:07.70
say on the side of the
person who is receiving the sent
00:13:07.73\00:13:10.59
message from the speaker, that
is if they see the sincerity of
00:13:10.63\00:13:15.11
the person maybe they can give
a little grace and give a little
00:13:15.15\00:13:18.90
room so even if the person says
something that's not exactly
00:13:18.94\00:13:22.22
right they won't mark them off
immediately. So sensitivity is
00:13:22.25\00:13:27.05
an important part on the side of
the receiver but being aware and
00:13:27.08\00:13:31.85
educated is important on the
side of the sender, the one who
00:13:31.88\00:13:34.96
is speaking. Now let me
tell you what we're doing at
00:13:34.99\00:13:38.55
Oakwood. A pretty exciting
program. The point you made at
00:13:38.59\00:13:41.40
the very beginning, you said
here you are coming from Loma
00:13:41.44\00:13:44.08
Linda University and you
were in charge of the diversity
00:13:44.12\00:13:46.69
program and going to Oakwood
College which is predominantly a
00:13:46.73\00:13:50.41
black school. Persons of color
attend there. How did you work
00:13:50.44\00:13:53.34
that out? Well first of all
Oakwood is open enrollment so
00:13:53.38\00:13:56.25
anybody can come who
wants to. So the fact that it's
00:13:56.28\00:13:59.04
predominantly black is not by
choice. Those are the ones who
00:13:59.08\00:14:02.97
go there. We have about six
or seven percent white persons
00:14:03.01\00:14:07.32
the Caucasians who are attending
Oakwood and the number is
00:14:07.36\00:14:10.82
growing. We encourage diversity
at Oakwood as well as anywhere
00:14:10.86\00:14:14.36
else. So that's the point there.
But what we did... I have a
00:14:14.40\00:14:17.83
pride in Oakwood, I'm a graduate
of Oakwood, I graduated in 1975.
00:14:17.87\00:14:20.79
So when I became president
in 1996 I said we've got to do
00:14:20.82\00:14:25.54
something about this thing.
So diversity isn't naturally
00:14:25.58\00:14:28.75
happening at Oakwood meaning
that we don't have these large
00:14:28.79\00:14:32.58
numbers of different racial
groups coming. So let's import
00:14:32.61\00:14:36.94
diversity. How's that for a
notion, import it. So Gordon
00:14:36.97\00:14:40.16
Beitz, the president of
Southern Adventist University
00:14:40.20\00:14:43.32
and I got together and we were
brainstorming... In fact it was
00:14:43.36\00:14:46.63
kind of a wonderful experience,
I shouldn't say wonderful, I
00:14:46.66\00:14:49.90
should say providential
experience. We were traveling
00:14:49.93\00:14:52.36
with a number of individuals
from the Southern Union in these
00:14:52.40\00:14:57.65
Southern Asian countries. We
happened to be in Cambodia when
00:14:57.68\00:15:02.59
the coup took place a few years
ago in Phnom Pehn. And Gordon
00:15:02.63\00:15:06.89
and myself along with the other
presidents were locked into that
00:15:06.93\00:15:10.51
hotel in downtown Phnom Pehn
when the coup was taking place,
00:15:10.55\00:15:14.10
the bombs were taking place.
Literally Friday night and
00:15:14.13\00:15:17.44
Saturday we were locked in that
hotel and we were praying, we
00:15:17.48\00:15:20.34
were praying. It was a
very dangerous situation. It was
00:15:20.37\00:15:24.49
there that we said, listen we've
got these days here, we were
00:15:24.53\00:15:26.55
locked in there about four or
five days. We couldn't leave the
00:15:26.59\00:15:28.58
country. We said let's plan
it now. So the two of us got
00:15:28.61\00:15:30.82
together and we began to develop
this idea of diversity. How can
00:15:30.86\00:15:33.69
we import it into our campuses.
00:15:33.72\00:15:34.85
See that's a whole other program
how with bombs going on all
00:15:34.89\00:15:38.35
around you, you guys
were doing your work.
00:15:38.38\00:15:41.84
God was with us and we worked
well. So we came up with what we
00:15:41.88\00:15:45.45
call DEEP Diversity Educational
Exchange Program. It's going
00:15:45.48\00:15:49.02
on four years now. Basically
what we did, we took seven
00:15:49.05\00:15:52.78
students from the Oakwood campus
persons of color and seven
00:15:52.81\00:15:56.51
persons from the Southern
Adventist University campus
00:15:56.54\00:15:59.67
Anglo-Americans, Caucasians and
we swapped them for one semester
00:15:59.71\00:16:03.99
each year. We literally had the
blacks go to Southern and the
00:16:04.03\00:16:08.00
whites to go to Oakwood and what
we did. What we did was we kind
00:16:08.04\00:16:11.44
of created a diversity program
to increase the sensitivity of
00:16:11.47\00:16:14.82
our campuses. Are we aware
of the issues? How does another
00:16:14.86\00:16:18.39
group look at what we do. And
it's done some wonderful things
00:16:18.43\00:16:21.19
for us. We've been doing this
for 11 years now and now we're
00:16:21.22\00:16:23.95
even involved in
our administration
00:16:23.98\00:16:25.65
we're having
retreats together with the
00:16:25.68\00:16:27.28
administrative teams and
we're even working with faculty
00:16:27.31\00:16:30.43
changing as well. So I'm just
using this as an example, an
00:16:30.47\00:16:33.90
illustration to say that
with creativity churches can do
00:16:33.93\00:16:37.22
wonderful things. When I was
a pastor we would swap pulpits.
00:16:37.25\00:16:41.59
and don't simply swap the
same. Don't _ say no. They say
00:16:41.63\00:16:45.60
well every choir come to
our church. That's good, but do
00:16:45.64\00:16:48.57
more than just sing. Do
more than just playing sports.
00:16:48.60\00:16:52.17
I mean get together for
meaningful discussions. Share
00:16:52.21\00:16:55.08
the preaching of the
word, pastor swapping and Bible
00:16:55.11\00:16:57.91
study groups and activities
together so people can get to
00:16:57.95\00:17:01.38
know one another on an effective
personal, one-to-one basis.
00:17:01.41\00:17:05.56
That's a more powerful factor
that the Bible brings out. Love
00:17:05.59\00:17:09.57
comes in. You see love says
that when we understand we have
00:17:09.61\00:17:13.32
differences, we're different,
we understand that, when we see
00:17:13.35\00:17:17.11
that you're OK in spite of the
differences, you're a child of
00:17:17.14\00:17:21.06
God and have problems dealing
with issues like I do. By so
00:17:21.10\00:17:24.99
doing we can build
bridges, via love and via this
00:17:25.02\00:17:28.84
interpersonal relationship
in ways that we never dreamed of
00:17:28.88\00:17:31.78
before. So there's some exciting
things, Karen, that a person and
00:17:31.82\00:17:33.53
a church and a company can do.
00:17:33.56\00:17:35.88
OK, now going to witnessing
to people who are very different
00:17:35.92\00:17:40.34
than you are. Now the Seventh-
day Adventist lifestyle is
00:17:40.37\00:17:44.84
pretty much one that's based
in the Bible and compared to the
00:17:44.88\00:17:49.05
lifestyle of the world it's very
different. How can a Christian
00:17:49.09\00:17:53.23
even if the person is not
a Seventh-day Adventist, how
00:17:53.26\00:17:55.42
can a Christian reach out to say
the homosexual community, to the
00:17:55.46\00:18:01.22
drug community, I mean people
who are involved in drugs and
00:18:01.25\00:18:03.97
maybe to the rich, to the poor?
Give us some of those kinds of
00:18:04.01\00:18:06.70
examples. Hot
topic there, a real tough
00:18:06.73\00:18:09.13
one there. Well there are ways
to do it. There are definitely
00:18:09.17\00:18:14.32
ways to do it. It takes more
thought and more planning than
00:18:14.36\00:18:18.93
the normal areas of diversity.
Because the issues of the gay/
00:18:18.96\00:18:23.50
lesbian lifestyle is one
that is so controverted in the
00:18:23.53\00:18:27.25
Christian community. I think
when you're talking about the
00:18:27.28\00:18:30.93
vices, when you're talking about
drugs, smoking and the immoral
00:18:30.97\00:18:35.28
lifestyle, I think those are
very clear. I mean Christians
00:18:35.31\00:18:37.54
know that and the
non- Christians know that.
00:18:37.57\00:18:39.43
But the one with the gay/
lesbian lifestyle, that's a
00:18:39.47\00:18:42.30
little more sensitive.
00:18:42.33\00:18:43.65
Well why do you think people
categorize those separately?
00:18:43.69\00:18:46.96
_ sin. I think we rate
sin. I think we say this
00:18:46.99\00:18:50.19
sin is worse than another sin.
And there is still the stigma
00:18:50.23\00:18:53.92
attached to the gay/lesbian
lifestyle. Christians struggle
00:18:53.95\00:18:57.37
with it. They don't know how
to deal with it and many people
00:18:57.40\00:19:00.79
feel uncomfortable with it
and so therefore when one is
00:19:00.82\00:19:02.76
around them they get homophobia.
They become very negative, very
00:19:02.80\00:19:07.70
discriminatory. They react in
a way that is not Christ like.
00:19:07.74\00:19:12.61
They will in many cases become a
bad witness by the way they deal
00:19:12.64\00:19:19.25
with the gay/lesbian group. You
know, I'm sure you plan to do
00:19:19.28\00:19:23.89
a subject of this alone and
bring some individuals in and
00:19:23.92\00:19:27.01
talk about this, but let me
just share a point or two that I
00:19:27.04\00:19:30.10
think might be helpful in
a cursory sense when a person
00:19:30.13\00:19:33.98
is dealing with this. That
is first you've got to take away
00:19:34.02\00:19:37.80
the fear of it. I mean you can't
look at homosexual and fear them
00:19:37.84\00:19:43.94
or like they're dirty, or
they're not a human being.
00:19:43.97\00:19:46.29
That is not the way that Christ
dealt with people who were out
00:19:46.33\00:19:51.12
of the mainstream. We have
to see them as children of God,
00:19:51.16\00:19:55.82
people who God loves, that he
wants in his kingdom. And if we
00:19:55.86\00:19:59.32
have that basic understanding
when we go to them, we won't
00:19:59.36\00:20:02.69
have the... we won't exude this
negativism, this sense of I'm
00:20:02.72\00:20:05.97
better than you. You poor thing.
I would help you by coming your
00:20:06.00\00:20:09.22
way and I'll talk to you if
you can get yourself together.
00:20:09.25\00:20:11.84
Number two, we need to
understand that in particular
00:20:11.87\00:20:15.84
the gay/lesbian lifestyle may
be more complicated than some
00:20:15.88\00:20:20.11
of the other clear-cut sins.
There's often history to it and
00:20:20.15\00:20:24.23
there may be family issues or
other issues that impact. So we
00:20:24.27\00:20:27.94
shouldn't come to it was a
pat simple answer. We say well
00:20:27.97\00:20:30.95
brother get your life together.
You just accept Jesus Christ
00:20:30.98\00:20:34.32
and that's it. You drop
everything. It's not that simple
00:20:34.36\00:20:39.90
so often. And the third thing
is you need to exercise love,
00:20:39.93\00:20:45.47
accepting love. That you love
that person and that even though
00:20:45.50\00:20:49.35
they have a lifestyle that you
know is not consistent with the
00:20:49.39\00:20:53.27
word of God and you're going to
work on that. That you want to
00:20:53.31\00:20:57.47
show love and concern for that
person. Reach out to them and
00:20:57.50\00:21:01.63
let them see the
unconditional love that you
00:21:01.66\00:21:03.46
have for them and you still
respect them as a person of
00:21:03.50\00:21:07.63
dignity and a child of God. So
with those three points and with
00:21:07.67\00:21:11.38
a background, I think you share
the gospel. I think you talk
00:21:11.42\00:21:15.40
about Jesus, you talk about his
love, you talk of his wonderful
00:21:15.43\00:21:19.38
accepting posture. You talk
about righteousness by faith.
00:21:19.41\00:21:22.40
You talk about heaven to gain
and a hell to shun. I mean you
00:21:22.44\00:21:25.40
go ahead and witness and
you do the thing that the Lord
00:21:25.43\00:21:27.35
impresses you with.
00:21:27.38\00:21:28.41
Now what about reaching
out to the Muslim community?
00:21:28.44\00:21:31.52
Oh the Muslim community. That's
very diverse especially in light
00:21:31.56\00:21:35.86
of 9/11, September 11. I think
we have some real challenges as
00:21:35.90\00:21:39.98
it relates to people from other
countries and there's this fear
00:21:40.02\00:21:44.12
factor tied in with anger and
rage and tied in with a sense of
00:21:44.16\00:21:48.23
frustration that we've
gone through since September 11.
00:21:48.26\00:21:50.36
As we all know, the world is a
very different place than it was
00:21:50.40\00:21:54.67
September 10. Many individuals
said that following that when
00:21:54.71\00:21:58.97
they got on the plane they
start looking at the names of
00:21:59.01\00:22:03.20
individuals who they're with or
how they looked or... Did they
00:22:03.24\00:22:07.25
look like they're suspicious?
So we have to be very careful of
00:22:07.29\00:22:11.93
how we view them and feel like
because of what happened, and
00:22:11.97\00:22:15.99
we know that the individuals
involved in the attack on the
00:22:16.03\00:22:20.37
World Trade Center were of a
certain cultural background and
00:22:20.40\00:22:24.49
religious belief that we don't
globalize and generalize and say
00:22:24.52\00:22:28.58
that everyone's in the same
category. I would say the same
00:22:28.61\00:22:33.07
point. We have to approach it in
a very rational, a very thinking
00:22:33.11\00:22:36.10
manner and know that everyone's
not involved in it any more than
00:22:36.14\00:22:39.80
McVey when he was involved in
the situation in Oklahoma City
00:22:39.84\00:22:43.06
at the federal building there.
I mean, didn't think it's all
00:22:43.10\00:22:46.14
persons who were in the armed
forces or who looked like him or
00:22:46.18\00:22:49.13
who came from his background.
You didn't do it there so we
00:22:49.17\00:22:52.05
shouldn't do it as it relates to
Islam. I think the principle is
00:22:52.09\00:22:56.55
operative, it stays the
same there, the sense of
00:22:56.58\00:22:59.17
understanding. You know
the Bible says in Proverbs,
00:22:59.20\00:23:01.72
wonderful book of Proverbs, it
says understanding is the best
00:23:01.76\00:23:04.30
thing in the world, get
understanding and I think
00:23:04.33\00:23:06.01
that's what we really need
to focus on. Diversity requires
00:23:06.05\00:23:08.51
that we have understanding and
it causes us to think out of the
00:23:08.55\00:23:12.45
box, think out of our personal
box and seek to be sensitive
00:23:12.48\00:23:16.35
to different people.
00:23:16.38\00:23:17.41
What role do you think diversity
will have in the last days?
00:23:17.44\00:23:20.55
Oh boy that's a great question.
Love in diversity and love in
00:23:20.58\00:23:24.53
the last days is a powerful
topic that we really have to
00:23:24.56\00:23:28.12
think about more. I believe
God is going to do something
00:23:28.15\00:23:31.64
marvelous in this church and our
country as time winds down and
00:23:31.68\00:23:35.35
it's going to have to do with
love, people setting aside their
00:23:35.38\00:23:38.78
differences, forgetting who
they are, their hang-ups, their
00:23:38.82\00:23:42.11
complexes, their superiority
complexes, their inferiority
00:23:42.14\00:23:45.36
complexes and coming together to
meet one another on a personal
00:23:45.40\00:23:48.96
basis. And the individual that
God is going to use is the one
00:23:48.99\00:23:52.66
who is going to be sensitive
and willing to set aside their
00:23:52.69\00:23:56.04
differences, to reach out and
to love one another in a genuine
00:23:56.08\00:23:59.81
authentic way. There's power
in that, there's so much we can
00:23:59.84\00:24:04.24
do, but we ought not wait until
the final signals, Karen. We
00:24:04.28\00:24:08.65
need to start doing it
now. Churches and companies and
00:24:08.68\00:24:11.83
groups and individuals need
to figure how can I show my love
00:24:11.87\00:24:15.41
to one another now. How can
I practice what God wants me to
00:24:15.45\00:24:18.96
do and how can we really
see love as a distinguishing
00:24:18.99\00:24:23.10
characteristic for Christians;
they'll know us by our love.
00:24:23.14\00:24:26.11
And when we start practicing
that now I believe that's going
00:24:26.14\00:24:29.03
to be one of the sanctifying
elements that will help us to
00:24:29.06\00:24:32.15
get ready for the soon coming
of Jesus Christ, by loving one
00:24:32.19\00:24:36.20
another. Because we know that
this love aspect as it ties in
00:24:36.23\00:24:40.55
with diversity doesn't end with
this life. It actually continues
00:24:40.58\00:24:44.59
in the life to come. If you ever
look at the Spirit of Prophecy
00:24:44.62\00:24:48.60
Ellen White talks about the
spirit of unity and peace and
00:24:48.63\00:24:52.88
love in heaven, in eternity. How
we all come together with grand
00:24:52.92\00:24:56.58
enterprises, noble tasks. We'll
be working together for eternity
00:24:56.61\00:25:00.24
What exciting
things God has for us.
00:25:00.27\00:25:02.40
That is incredible and something
to look forward to so we have to
00:25:02.44\00:25:06.49
kind of get it
together down here, right?
00:25:06.52\00:25:08.41
We start down
here, that's right.
00:25:08.44\00:25:10.82
Well, I've really enjoyed
the topic that you've presented
00:25:10.86\00:25:14.59
today on diversity and
encouraging us to reach out to
00:25:14.62\00:25:18.28
different types of people. No
matter where you may be watching
00:25:18.32\00:25:23.70
this program anywhere in
the world, conflict is going to
00:25:23.73\00:25:28.30
exist because we are different
and we do need the Holy Spirit
00:25:28.34\00:25:32.09
to come and touch our hearts
and to give us the capacity to
00:25:32.13\00:25:35.91
expand and to do some of these
great programs that you have
00:25:35.94\00:25:39.20
implemented at Loma Linda
and at Oakwood and churches and
00:25:39.24\00:25:42.58
community groups. At this time
would you offer prayer for us
00:25:42.62\00:25:46.04
please. I'd love to.
00:25:46.08\00:25:47.79
Our Father, we thank you for
this opportunity to talk about
00:25:47.83\00:25:49.82
this important topic. We ask
for the power of the Holy Spirit
00:25:49.86\00:25:53.44
to bless us personally with our
families, with our companies,
00:25:53.47\00:25:57.26
with our churches. We thank you
for this program that has given
00:25:57.30\00:26:01.35
us the opportunity to talk about
it. We ask that what we talked
00:26:01.38\00:26:04.95
today and what we have found
in your word might inspire us to
00:26:04.98\00:26:08.52
reach out and love one another
in the true way that you love us
00:26:08.56\00:26:12.03
and that you modeled your love
for us. Bless us as we prepare
00:26:12.07\00:26:16.13
for your soon coming. Bless us
to spend eternity with you for
00:26:16.17\00:26:19.73
we pray this in the name of
Jesus Christ our Savior, Amen.
00:26:19.77\00:26:23.94
Amen. Thank you so much for
coming to our program Dr. Baker.
00:26:23.97\00:26:27.36
I certainly enjoyed the topic
of diversity and for those of
00:26:27.40\00:26:30.65
you who would like to get a
copy of this book, the book is
00:26:30.69\00:26:36.26
Make Us One: Celebrating
Spiritual Unity in the Midst of
00:26:36.29\00:26:40.85
Cultural Diversity, Removing
Barriers and Building Bridges.
00:26:40.88\00:26:45.53
Delbert W. Baker, PhD, editor.
You can get information about
00:26:45.57\00:26:50.19
this book by going to the
3ABN website www.3ABN.org.
00:26:50.22\00:26:58.10
And you can find out how to get
hold of the book, how to get in
00:26:58.14\00:27:01.40
contact with Dr. Baker. He
is, again, located at Oakwood
00:27:01.43\00:27:05.19
College. You can call his office
if you would like for him to
00:27:05.23\00:27:08.10
come and to speak to your
community or group about the
00:27:08.13\00:27:12.01
subject of diversity. Or
you can call the 800 number,
00:27:12.04\00:27:16.89
1-800-752-3226 and ask for
materials. If you have not met
00:27:16.93\00:27:20.70
the Lord Jesus Christ as your
Savior and would like to invite
00:27:20.73\00:27:24.18
him into your heart at this
time, we encourage that you call
00:27:24.22\00:27:27.70
the 800 number. We have
materials that you need and that
00:27:27.73\00:27:29.95
we would like to place in your
hand. The beauty is that God
00:27:29.99\00:27:32.18
made us all and it is his desire
to make us one. And that is what
00:27:34.95\00:27:39.38
we want to have happen today
in this program. The purpose of
00:27:39.41\00:27:43.30
presenting diversity is not
to emphasize differences but to
00:27:43.33\00:27:47.32
show that God is the creator of
all of us and that it is he who
00:27:47.35\00:27:51.31
can make us one. Thank you
again for coming to Issues and
00:27:51.34\00:27:54.59
Answers and watching the
program and may God bless you
00:27:54.63\00:27:57.24
until next time.
Have a great day.
00:27:57.28\00:27:59.33