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Welcome to Issues and Answers.
Today we're going to be talking
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about what it feels
like to be hurt when someone
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that you've loved
and you care about
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has experienced the
loss of a loved one due to
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violence. Or perhaps someone in
their family has been hurt by a
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stranger that has robbed
something, youth, emotions away
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from someone, and yet they're
your friend and you want to
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reach out and help them. Or
maybe you have experienced this.
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We're going to talk about
that today. What do you do when
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you're in a situation where
violence has come straight to
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your front door. Today we going
to talk with Dwain Esmond. He is
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the associate editor for
the Message magazine. Welcome to
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the program, Dwain.
Thank you Karen, thanks again
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for having me. This issue of
violence is near and dear to my
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heart and it concerns me because
as I look back on my life it's
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been impacted a little bit by
a violent episode. I didn't kill
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anybody, by the way, just to put
that out there. But I remember
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when I was a teenager, one of my
cousins, a close cousin of mine,
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as a matter of fact, was killed
in New York. He wasn't involved
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in anything illegal. In fact he
was driving a moving van at the
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time with some other friends and
they were coming over into New
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Jersey and had stopped at a
light and someone pulled up who
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had a problem or some kind
of altercation with one of the
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other young men in the vehicle
and just began shooting and he
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was killed. And I remember the
feeling of losing someone you
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really loved, really cared about
and all of a sudden they're just
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gone. My brothers and I were
at the funeral. We carried his
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casket. He was just near
to us, just very close to us.
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I remember the pain that his
mother felt, his sisters, two
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little sisters who were bereft
of their brother. His father.
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It was just a very trying
experience. And this experience
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is replicated many times in
our society. I bet most of our
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listeners today know someone
who's lost a loved one to
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violence. Or someone whose
family has been touched by a
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violent act that stole the life
of another. You can imagine the
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feelings that come as a result
of that. What do you do as
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someone who is relational or
conversational with this family
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that has had this tragedy happen
to them? What does someone who
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is close to that family, or in
the area or an associate of that
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family, what can you do to be
of service in their great time
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of need? Before I begin, I want
to begin with the word of God.
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I am not a preacher but I'm
going to put on my preaching
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voice for this little text of
scripture. The book of Psalms,
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And again Psalm 13. This is
one of my... I like the psalmist
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David because he is like
me. He has fallen and as Donnie
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McClerken says he has gotten up
and I like that about his story.
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But in chapter 13 in particular
of the book of Psalms, he is at
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a low point and he asks this
innocuous question of God in
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verse 1. How long wilt thou
forget me, oh Lord? Forever?
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How long
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wilt thou hide thy face from me?
How long shall I take counsel
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in my soul having sorrow in my
heart daily? How long shall my
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enemy be exalted over me? It's
like he reaches up to some great
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door in heaven and hits his fist
against the ceiling and says
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Lord open up. I want to talk to
you and how long are you going
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to keep this thing shut and
you're not going to talk to me?
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I have a problem. I'm in need of
some help here. How long must I
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talk to myself, until I'm blue
in the face? When will you deem
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my situation bad enough for
you to intervene? I believe that
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many people who lose loved ones
face that wall in their lives.
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They come to that point where
they wonder about God and that
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is an opportunity for people
to be a witness; people who know
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the Lord, who know his
healing salvaging power. It's an
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opportunity for those people to
stand up and be counted. It's an
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opportunity. A great writer once
wrote that the best lack all
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conviction and the worst are
filled with passionate intensity
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meaning the people who know what
is right, the people who have
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learned what is right, sometimes
lack the conviction to act what
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is right. But the people who
don't know what is right have no
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inkling to do what is right,
they're out there acting with
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passionate intensity doing wrong
We have got to be agents of the
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right and we have got to put our
belief system to work. If you
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know that God is a healer, that
God can help in times of need
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and you have proved him in your
life, that is not just for you
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to keep to yourself. God
has equipped you for ministry to
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the people who are really in
need of help. So what do you do
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if a family has lost a loved one
or if a husband is beating his
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wife, for instance? A little bit
before this show began you and
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I were talking about domestic
violence, a problem that is
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wide-spread in our society.
Suppose you are a friend of the
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husband or a friend of the
wife? How do you intervene in a
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situation like that on behalf
of God? That problem of domestic
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violence in particular has
a clinical aspect to it and it
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requires a certain kind of
preparation to truly intervene
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and be of service. However,
that said, there are things you
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can do to be a minister, a light
to this family or to one or two
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members of this family as
God allows you to be. The first
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thing I want to talk about is
the fact that you have to divest
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yourself of self and say to God
empower me, prepare me, give me
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the tools I need to
meet the need of this family.
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Amen, that's right, because our
own ideas can botch the whole
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thing up. There are
people who say, honey
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you need to go back. I
don't know why you're leaving.
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Or honey you need to go.
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Or honey you need to get out.
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I wouldn't put up with that.
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I wouldn't... And they have no
concept, they're not led by the
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Holy Spirit in saying that and
they have no concept really of
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how the thing will turn out if
she goes back only to be killed.
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She leaves to be impoverished.
To forgo the change that came
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one week later in her husband.
Those kinds of situations are
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complicated. Very complicated.
And unless we have the light of
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the Holy Spirit and we ask God
to equip us to be ministers in
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this home, and really you're not
doing anything. God is working
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through you to be of service.
You've got to be willing
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channels to be used of God.
I think that's the first one I
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want to mention. The next
thing I think that's absolutely
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essential is you've got to
be present. If a family loses a
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loved one that is not the time
for you to be far away from them
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That is the time... Now there
may be situations where you may
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not be able to be there right
on the nose of the event and
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they may wish for some time
to pass, but sooner or later you
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need to be visible. We've got
to be visible. We've got to be
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present so that they
know we're on the spot.
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Very often the hardest time for
a family dealing with grief is
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after the funeral when all
the relatives have gone home.
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Everybody's gone. Everybody's
gone. You know everybody came
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over and baked the pies
and cooked the food for us and
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everyone sat around and held
our hand, but now the funeral is
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over, Susie is in the grave
and everybody goes back home.
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Or when a person comes home
from the hospital and they don't
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have the care that they
received in the hospital.
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Where is everyone? Where are
the calls. Where are the notes.
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Everyone goes back to their
life. We've got to be people who
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are present. One woman tells
a story of a child who was very
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badly injured and, in fact, died
She came out of the emergency
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room where her daughter perished
and outside she saw the doctor
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who delivered her child. He
showed up. He thought it was
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important enough that at the
time when this child leaves the
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earth that I be there since
I was there when she came in.
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I think that kind of an
experience, the mother said it
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meant everything to her. He took
time to do that. So we've got to
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be present. I think that's one
of the first things we've got to
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do. Another important point is
that we've got to be resourceful
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This person is really in a
very difficult situation and by
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resourceful I don't mean that
we've got to necessarily go find
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a bunch of things that
they need. I think we need to be
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resourceful in the sense that we
find the resources that will be
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the best help for them. For
instance, the word of God is a
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tremendous antidote to trying
situations that we face. This is
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a great time to introduce them
to the book of Psalms. I read
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from a Psalm that is perfect for
people who lose a loved one and
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don't really know what to do.
Especially if they lose a loved
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one to violence. Because David,
while he was fleeing from Saul,
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was in a very violent atmosphere
His men were being killed, his
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live was in danger constantly.
So when he says in chapter 13
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how long Lord will you forget
me? Why are you allowing my
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enemy to be exalted over me when
you know he's doing wrong? That
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speaks to the situation that
these people are in. They're in
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trouble. The word of God's got
an answer for the trouble. At
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the end of the story the rest of
the story as my friend Paul says
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on the radio, the rest of the
story is that David's God came
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to his rescue and we've got to
somehow communicate that during
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this trying period. Another
important point that must be
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mentioned, you've got to
be available for these people.
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You know, If they need certain
things at certain times, can
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they call on you, or is there a
time when your answering machine
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is off? Can they call on you?
Can they depend on you when they
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really, really need you to
be? One woman tells a story of a
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friend who showed up at the
hospital during a very tragic
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time with a big bag of coins
because this friend knew that
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they would have to make tons
of calls everywhere from the
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hospital. They just took that
strain right out of their mind.
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It requires thoughtfulness,
it requires sensitivity, another
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point I'll mention later, but
we've got to be people who feel
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the moment, who sense the moment
and who can say OK it's time
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for God to get some glory. This
person's been killed; it's time
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for God to get some glory in the
situation. We've got to be those
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kind of people. Another amazing
and wonderful way that we can be
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of service to people who hurt or
lose loved ones is we've got to
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be nonjudgmental of them.
They're going to say some hard
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things during this period of
time. They're probably numb from
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the event, disillusioned by the
event, maybe going through some
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denial about the event. They're
at a point where they're at the
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end of their rope and they're
trying to tie a knot that just
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won't resolve itself so that
they can hold on. And you have
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got to grasp of the rope
up a little higher and they're
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hanging on to you and their
little piece of the rope. At
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that moment that's not a time
for you to say sweetheart that's
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not Biblical. You know
this unbelief that you're
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expressing about the God we
serve. Where is he? What's he
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doing? There is no God. When a
person begins to speak like that
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that's not a time for you to
pull out the Bible necessarily
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and say you know but here
in 4:29, 50 and 54 whatever the
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Bible says this. We've got to be
nonjudgmental in the sense that
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we hear them out. There will
come a time when you'll be able
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to pull that Bible out and
you'll be able to say, here's
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what God says. But you've got to
let that storm kind of pass for
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a minute and then come back to
that. Another essential way that
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we can touch people during this
crucial time in their lives is
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we've got to be listeners
and that goes along with being
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nonjudgmental. Now I'm rambling
on here and whenever you're
00:16:26.82\00:16:32.36
ready because what I'm about to
say may come right back to me.
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But some people talk a lot and
the art of listening is like a
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lost art in our society. You
know, people put up their own
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web sites just so they can speak
to the world. Everyone speaks
00:16:47.55\00:16:52.93
everyone speaks. There
is an art to listening.
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I know when I was going through
graduate school we had to go all
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the way through the process
of listening, communication,
00:17:00.87\00:17:04.13
learning how not to talk when
other people are talking and
00:17:04.17\00:17:07.36
want to express themselves. How
can you possibly know what their
00:17:07.40\00:17:09.86
problem is or whatever it
is that they may be facing if
00:17:09.89\00:17:12.77
they've not had an opportunity
to express in their own words
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what it is. And
they may never got to it.
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They leave even more frustrated
than when they came to you
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because they took the time to
bare their soul before you about
00:17:23.24\00:17:27.57
something that's really
difficult and really hurting to
00:17:27.60\00:17:31.62
them and you talked
the whole time away.
00:17:31.65\00:17:34.86
And see one thing about all
the recommendations that you've
00:17:34.90\00:17:38.33
given do not cost any money.
You don't have to go to graduate
00:17:38.36\00:17:41.76
school to be a good
friend and a good listener.
00:17:41.79\00:17:44.10
None of them do and that's
the wonderful thing about the
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balms and salves that God
gives, they don't cost anything.
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Jesus paid it
already. He's got the power.
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Amen, Amen Karen. Jesus paid
everything. We've got to be good
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listeners so we're clued in
to where people are. I think
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another important point is we're
got to be sensitive. We've got
00:18:05.47\00:18:13.41
to see the folks really where
they are and be sensitive to
00:18:13.44\00:18:19.15
their condition. For instance,
if this family has lost a loved
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one or your friend has lost a
loved one and you want to send
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them a sympathy card of
some sort, don't just buy a card
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necessarily and sign your name
to it and send it. You and your
00:18:35.91\00:18:42.05
friend have personal time
together. Some folks say you've
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got some road together, you
know you've gone down some roads
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together. Perhaps the person
that was lost, your friend's
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loved one who is now dead,
perhaps the three of you shared
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some special experiences
together. It would be so much
00:19:04.47\00:19:09.59
more real and
00:19:09.62\00:19:11.11
so much more of a blessing to
them perhaps if you wrote about
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one of those experiences
and talked about the impact this
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person had on your life,
how they touched you, how their
00:19:19.82\00:19:24.48
ministry or how their spark
or their sparkle or their calm
00:19:24.52\00:19:28.82
temperament was a blessing to
you at a certain time. That is
00:19:28.86\00:19:34.11
just so much more meaningful in
a time of need than to perhaps
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buy a cookie cutter card and
just mail it out to them. You've
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got to be sensitive to what may
really be a blessing to them.
00:19:44.58\00:19:49.32
I think another important point
to mention under that moniker
00:19:49.35\00:19:55.36
there is people tend to think
because I've lost a loved one or
00:19:55.40\00:19:59.83
because someone has lost a loved
one they don't want to talk
00:19:59.87\00:20:04.47
about it. Not necessarily so.
They might want to talk about
00:20:04.50\00:20:10.07
it. Can they talk about the
person with you? Are you still
00:20:10.11\00:20:14.83
open to really expressing
if they want to just come and
00:20:14.87\00:20:19.37
relate experiences. Some people
will stay away because they
00:20:19.40\00:20:23.53
think if I talk about it I'll
remind them of the person. Well
00:20:23.56\00:20:27.66
maybe they want to be reminded.
00:20:27.69\00:20:28.97
And there's a process to all
of this you know. You can't rush
00:20:29.01\00:20:31.74
a person through it. No
you can't. It takes time and
00:20:31.77\00:20:34.28
the person goes through
different stages and there'll
00:20:34.31\00:20:36.75
come a time when they'll say,
you know I remember when Todd
00:20:36.79\00:20:40.84
was this way. Do you remember
that? And they want to live it
00:20:40.88\00:20:44.31
all over again. Now they
might shed a tear at the end but
00:20:44.35\00:20:47.71
that's OK, let them cry. Let's
remember the good times. So you
00:20:47.75\00:20:52.48
got to be sensitive to those
kind of things. One of the final
00:20:52.51\00:20:57.93
points I want to mention is
you've got to be patient. Now I
00:20:57.96\00:21:03.47
think we can spend some time
on this issue of patience. So
00:21:03.50\00:21:09.83
many people, so many of us, tire
of other people's stuff. They
00:21:09.86\00:21:16.76
haven't been in the situation
where you may be trying to help
00:21:16.80\00:21:21.87
someone or you may be trying
to be of service to someone and
00:21:21.91\00:21:26.95
their problem just gets
intertwined with your life.
00:21:26.98\00:21:32.06
You mean like a drama queen?
Or a drama king? Those are
00:21:32.10\00:21:37.15
labels people get,
you know. But there's a
00:21:37.18\00:21:39.68
ministry to them too as time
goes on. You've got to have...
00:21:39.72\00:21:44.15
I like that. Drama king and
queen. Now my wife and I say
00:21:44.19\00:21:48.59
that all the time. I
don't mean just be belittle.
00:21:48.62\00:21:51.37
I'm talking about the folks who
have may be dealt with serious
00:21:51.41\00:21:54.58
violence situation. I mean
people who... I mean you can
00:21:54.61\00:21:57.20
start small here; the people
who just chronically are having
00:21:57.24\00:22:00.95
things going on in their lives
that just seem to spread and
00:22:00.98\00:22:04.87
permeate the lives of others
around them, you know. Jesus
00:22:04.90\00:22:10.73
kept his 12 didn't he? It
is very difficult at times to
00:22:10.77\00:22:16.53
deal with some people's stuff.
That's why, again, we have to
00:22:16.57\00:22:19.95
go back to the fact that we've
got to rely on the power of God
00:22:19.98\00:22:25.60
to not only help them but to
really give you the strength to
00:22:25.64\00:22:30.71
kind of deal with the stuff.
Some people who have lost loved
00:22:30.74\00:22:35.48
ones may show up on your door
step at three in the morning.
00:22:35.52\00:22:40.19
There's a Bible text about that,
the friend that was knocking
00:22:40.22\00:22:44.80
at the door and because of their
importunity they were let in and
00:22:44.83\00:22:49.33
got the bread, right. So there
is an example of that; there's
00:22:49.36\00:22:53.29
a Biblical principle for
that. The person who's coming in
00:22:53.33\00:22:57.23
search. And also
Jesus said a less more
00:22:57.26\00:22:59.52
invasive one was if you just
gave him the coat to begin with
00:22:59.56\00:23:02.39
rather than have him knocking
at the door all the time.
00:23:02.42\00:23:04.27
Give them two you know I mean
there's some thought into this.
00:23:04.31\00:23:08.28
If you know they needed one coat
give them two that way hey it's
00:23:08.32\00:23:11.84
benefit to that. At least they
have some more time on their own
00:23:11.88\00:23:14.99
before they come back again
for those that are concerned in
00:23:15.02\00:23:18.10
that regard. So what
Jesus is saying is get
00:23:18.13\00:23:21.07
out there and go the extra
mile in a sense. Give them some
00:23:21.11\00:23:25.16
second mile service so they
won't, I mean not so that they
00:23:25.20\00:23:28.97
won't come back, but so that
perhaps they won't have a need
00:23:29.00\00:23:32.74
as quickly as they
probably usually do.
00:23:32.77\00:23:37.07
And there's nothing wrong
with not wanting to have people
00:23:37.11\00:23:39.03
dependent upon you because it
easier and better, I'll say it's
00:23:39.07\00:23:43.91
easier but it's better for
people to rely upon the Lord,
00:23:43.94\00:23:46.98
then some times we've got
to be that human agent, right?
00:23:47.01\00:23:50.52
Yeah, we've got to be God's
hands, the hands that are going
00:23:50.55\00:23:54.99
help these people. We have a
kind of a calling to be that.
00:23:55.02\00:23:59.04
But when these things get
intertwined and the problem
00:23:59.07\00:24:03.05
seems
intractable and difficult and
00:24:03.09\00:24:05.98
far-ranging, I think that's the
time when God is really forging
00:24:06.56\00:24:11.81
our character. He's forging it.
He's like OK let me see how far
00:24:11.84\00:24:16.54
Dwain can go with this thing.
OK. This person keeps coming.
00:24:16.57\00:24:20.71
At what point is he going to
just yell at the person and cut
00:24:20.74\00:24:25.08
them off and let them go, or is
he going to demonstrate what I
00:24:25.11\00:24:29.42
think he's going to demonstrate
and what I believe he can
00:24:29.45\00:24:32.11
demonstrate and what I have
empowered and equipped him to
00:24:32.14\00:24:34.73
demonstrate and that is my love.
Is he going to do that. It's a
00:24:34.77\00:24:38.73
testing time not only for the
person in need, it's a testing
00:24:38.77\00:24:43.14
time and an opportunity for us
who may not be in need. Because
00:24:43.17\00:24:49.41
rest assured at some point every
one of us has a moment that
00:24:49.44\00:24:55.65
will just tear the very
foundations out from under us.
00:24:55.68\00:24:58.80
My wife hates when I say that
or when I make comments to that
00:24:58.84\00:25:02.83
affect. You know some things may
happen that are not wonderful
00:25:02.86\00:25:06.82
and beautiful.
Sometimes bad things happen to
00:25:06.85\00:25:09.44
good people. Bad
things happen to good people
00:25:09.48\00:25:12.00
but the God we serve understands
that and in helping others we
00:25:12.04\00:25:18.98
help ourselves in time of need
because we're equipped and God
00:25:19.01\00:25:24.96
says man you know Karen stuck
her neck out for her friend when
00:25:24.99\00:25:30.91
it was inconvenient at that
moment and she went the extra
00:25:30.94\00:25:35.61
mile. Well how can I not do
it for her? That goes with our
00:25:35.65\00:25:40.29
stuff doesn't it? Oh
yeah, oh yeah. He sends
00:25:40.32\00:25:44.07
somebody away. I
really feel like the Lord is
00:25:44.11\00:25:47.79
leading for us to pray for
people, pray for ourselves,
00:25:47.83\00:25:51.55
as well as for those that
maybe watched the program that
00:25:51.58\00:25:55.52
actually are living the
situation. We'd like to take
00:25:55.55\00:25:59.42
time and have prayer. Why don't
you have a prayer and I'll pray.
00:25:59.46\00:26:04.95
Absolutely, that sounds good.
Heaven Father we are honored
00:26:04.98\00:26:10.22
first of all to be in your
presence. You're a high and a
00:26:10.25\00:26:17.11
holy God, yet you take the time
to come among men, humanity,
00:26:17.15\00:26:23.76
fallen, sinful and sup with
us. We're unworthy but we thank
00:26:23.80\00:26:30.27
you. I pray Lord for all of
those listening, all of those
00:26:30.30\00:26:35.36
watching. I pray that you
would please touch anyone in our
00:26:35.39\00:26:40.14
audience who may have lost a
loved one. Empower those around
00:26:40.17\00:26:44.37
who may know of others who have
lost loved ones. Empower them to
00:26:44.41\00:26:48.54
meet the need, to share the love
of Jesus Christ in a fresh and
00:26:48.58\00:26:52.68
new way at this very trying
moment. In Jesus name we pray,
00:26:52.71\00:26:58.60
Amen. Dear
heavenly Father, I pray in
00:26:58.63\00:27:01.51
agreement with Dwain's prayer
for every soul, for every person
00:27:01.55\00:27:05.03
that is watching this program.
Lord may we be willing to allow
00:27:05.06\00:27:08.86
self to die and allow Christ to
live within our hearts so that
00:27:08.89\00:27:12.53
we can love others, and minister
to others as you would want us
00:27:12.57\00:27:15.83
to do and that would bring glory
to your holy name, we pray in
00:27:15.87\00:27:19.10
the name of Jesus, Amen.
Thank you so much for this very
00:27:19.13\00:27:23.86
important topic.
Thank you very much.
00:27:23.89\00:27:26.71
And as always, we'd like to
offer to our viewers resource
00:27:26.75\00:27:31.59
material. If you are dialing a
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00:27:31.63\00:27:35.78
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00:27:35.81\00:27:39.71
we have materials that we would
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00:27:39.75\00:27:45.31
topics: www.3ABN.org. If you
would like to know about some of
00:27:45.35\00:27:49.58
these social issues and research
that's been done one this,
00:27:49.61\00:27:54.32
contact Message magazine at
messagemagazine.org. Until next
00:27:54.36\00:27:59.04
time may God bless you.
00:27:59.07\00:28:00.25