Participants: Agatha Thrash, Wynn Horsely, Don Miller
Series Code: HYTH
Program Code: HYTH000168
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00:01 Hello, I'm Agatha Thrash, from Uchee Pines Institute
00:05 and we have a program for you today on "phytochemicals. " 00:09 It's a big word but it means something very simple 00:12 and very common. 00:13 The Lord put in all of the foods that He intended for us to eat 00:17 every nutrient that He intended for us to have... 00:20 ...all that will be needed to keep us in good health. 00:23 Listen to this from Genesis 1:29, 00:25 "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing 00:29 seed which is upon the face of all the earth and every tree 00:33 in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you 00:37 it shall be for food. " 00:39 And so we have here, the prescription that God gave 00:42 to man for his diet. 00:44 We hope you will join us for this program. 01:08 Welcome to "Help Yourself to Health" 01:10 with Dr. Agatha Thrash of Uchee Pines Institute. 01:13 And now, here's your host, Dr. Thrash. 01:20 We can have perfect confidence that all we need to preserve our 01:25 and to make us strong and cheerful can be found 01:29 in the food that God has provided. 01:32 Then we might say... 01:33 Well why is it that sometimes, for some reason, 01:36 we get a little nutrient deficient, 01:39 or perhaps we even find that what we have been eating 01:43 is not protecting us against some of those things that 01:47 afflict mankind at this time. 01:49 And so what we want to do is to study the chemicals 01:53 that God put in foods in the very beginning... 01:56 In this way, we can know what foods we may have 01:59 overemphasized because our modern palates 02:03 call for something that may not be the best for us, 02:07 or some of the refinements or manufactured products 02:11 that we have taken, have not been in cooperation with our 02:16 body's own physiology. 02:18 And so as we study these things, 02:20 we can know what we should emphasize in the diet, 02:24 and what things we should minimize. 02:27 So I've asked Dr. Winn Horsley, who is one of my colleagues 02:30 at Uchee Pines... he is one of the staff physicians there, 02:35 and he is going to be assisting me to talk with you about 02:38 phytochemicals. 02:40 I like this topic. 02:42 I like to talk about foods. 02:43 I like food. 02:45 And so I'd like us to just talk about phytochemicals... 02:51 a big word. 02:54 The very words that you said was what I was going to say... 02:57 that this, to me, is a very interesting topic. 03:02 Well, I'll make the point in a minute. 03:04 Maybe one should look at what the word means... 03:07 Does that make sense? 03:08 "Phyto" is a root that simply means "plant. " 03:13 And, "phytotherapy" is therapy with plants. 03:18 There are whole courses of study in Europe where they 03:23 study herbs and so on... 03:25 So phytotherapy is a well-recognized thing. 03:29 "Phytochemicals" then are chemicals that are in plants 03:31 and especially in foods... 03:34 Well, I see you've got quite a sheaf of papers and I've got 03:37 quite a sheaf of papers... 03:38 The subject is a big one. 03:40 And what we have is a small part of a huge library 03:46 on this subject of phytotherapies and 03:50 phytochemicals. 03:51 You know, I get the impression that this has really become 03:56 a major area of study in just the last 10, maybe 15 years. 04:02 I know that when I went through medical school, and even after, 04:06 that there really wasn't the same kind of interest now that's 04:11 impacting not just nutritionists 04:13 but doctors that are at all open to this area of the protective 04:18 chemicals that God has put into foods. 04:20 Yes, and as we study even one food, we can say... 04:24 well this food, I like it. 04:26 Say for instance, apples... 04:28 I like apples because they're high in boron. 04:31 Boron is good for the bones... 04:33 And, therefore, women ought to eat apples, because they are 04:36 good for the bones with the boron. 04:38 But then somebody else says... 04:40 But apples also have this principal that normalizes 04:43 the blood pressure. 04:45 Ah yes, so everybody who is susceptible to 04:47 high blood pressure, should be taking an apple a day... 04:52 that's good! 04:53 But then somebody else says... 04:55 But then there's a lot of fiber in apples... 04:58 Well yes, anybody who has... so we just, you know, 05:01 we go on and on... 05:02 It's not just one food has one property... Right. 05:05 You know, one could even ask... 05:07 why didn't this become a subject of study? 05:11 There was lots of science back in the 1950s and earlier... 05:14 And maybe one should clarify that when we are talking about 05:18 phytochemicals, we're not talking about the macronutrients 05:23 ...the BIG things that are in food usually. 05:27 I suppose one could use it that way, but that's not usually 05:30 the way the word is used. 05:31 It's not talking, therefore, about protein or fat, 05:35 or carbohydrate that's in food. 05:37 And, it's not even talking about the trace nutrients like 05:42 vitamins... where if a person or an animal, when they do 05:45 experiments, they give them a diet without a certain vitamin, 05:48 for a certain number of weeks or months and soon they'll 05:51 develop a deficiency disease or even die. 05:53 Here, we're talking about something that has a very 05:57 unique property... a phytochemical, in general, 06:00 is trace, but if you don't give it to the person, 06:04 they won't die soon, necessarily 06:08 they won't necessarily develop an obvious deficiency disease, 06:12 but what's been found is... 06:13 that as the years go by, 06:15 they can age quicker. 06:18 Or, they don't have that protection that would 06:23 keep them from cancer. 06:25 And so, one can see why, 06:26 in original studies on nutrition, 06:29 they just didn't show up early along. 06:32 Yeah... because it takes years sometimes or decades 06:35 for these things to develop. 06:37 And another thing that we find in the study of phytochemicals, 06:41 is that... it's the balance also... 06:45 it's not just that a nutrient is there, or the complex or 06:50 cluster of nutrients that join together to make a perfect food 06:57 for the body. 06:58 That also is a part of this whole picture of the study of 07:02 phytochemicals and makes it so fascinating. 07:04 I think that isn't taking into account enough even yet... 07:08 ...that it's not just any one, or even all of them saying 07:13 in that you'd take it different times but the 07:16 combination that interacts probably is having the effect. 07:21 So we know that our Father put all of these things in the foods 07:26 in the beginning, so that we would eat them more in the 07:29 natural state. 07:30 So we couldn't expect that if we take selenium and lithium and 07:33 chromium 07:37 and administer these in what we know to be 07:38 the daily requirement, 07:40 we can't get the same effect as we can if we take the whole food 07:41 Absolutely. 07:46 This is before we started talking here, just thinking 07:49 about this whole issue of phytochemicals... 07:51 When you take it in well, you begin to see that it just 07:57 goes straight against mankind's tendency to want to analyze 08:02 and then willy-nilly play with foods... 08:05 Instead, we should treat it almost like a sacred thing 08:10 that God has put together just exactly what He wants and knows 08:14 that we need. 08:15 It's not wrong for us to cook things and to mix things 08:20 and sometimes we even peel or slice or take the heart of 08:25 something instead of the whole thing... 08:26 that isn't wrong but what is wrong is for us to 08:29 think that we can depend on supplying each little nutrient 08:34 and that's going to do the same work that God intended 08:38 when he made the whole thing. 08:41 And, you know, talking about how one food can sort of 08:46 become the prototype of health for a certain organ, 08:52 I would like us to talk about men's diseases. 08:55 We often don't do that. 08:57 We concentrate on women's diseases a lot... 09:00 But do you have any special information that you could tell 09:05 people about what would keep the prostate healthy, 09:08 and how to protect the prostate. 09:10 Maybe not just with foods, but with other things as well. 09:13 Well, we should maybe say a word about the prostate... 09:16 it's one of the issues of men's health that's right up 09:20 at the top. 09:22 Almost without exception, men, as they get older, 09:26 and from the age of sometimes even as early as 40 on... 09:30 and by the time of 60 years of age is reached, 09:33 I would guess it's way over 80% of men have trouble 09:36 with the prostate enlarging and starting to give 09:39 urinary symptoms. 09:41 And then prostate cancer turns out to be the most common cancer 09:46 in men and perhaps in humans. 09:49 I guess almost every man old enough will get it.. 09:53 So, this issue of whether our diet can affect the prostate's 09:59 health is one of real concern. 10:01 Do you suppose that it's diet that determines whether... 10:05 since we can expect that all men will eventually get cancer 10:09 of the prostate, but so few men, relatively speaking, 10:13 die of cancer of the prostate... 10:15 do you suppose it's diet? 10:18 Or is it lifestyle or both that protects some men. 10:22 There is a fatal prostate cancer and a nonfatal prostate cancer. 10:26 What makes the difference? 10:27 They both look alike when I see them under the microscope. 10:30 Well, you know, on that issue, 10:33 we don't even need to guess or suppose because there has been 10:36 some good scientific study that has made clear correlations 10:40 between the diet that a man is following and whether he ends up 10:46 with prostate cancer and the risk of death from it. 10:51 Some of this study has shown things that could be suspected 10:58 by just the wealth of material that's out there about 11:00 diseases caused by animal foods. 11:03 And sure enough, all the animal foods... 11:06 meat, eggs, dairy products do tend to cause an increase 11:11 in prostate cancer. 11:14 One that sticks in my mind, because it's old fashioned 11:20 cow milk that's considered the perfect food, 11:23 this graph showed that when there was more than 2 glasses 11:30 of cow's milk 11:31 consumed per day, 11:33 the risk of prostate cancer 11:35 in that man went up quite sharply... 11:38 Well you know, that's similar to what it is with breast cancer 11:42 As certain animal products, especially milk, goes up, 11:47 the incidence of breast cancer goes up. 11:50 I have long suspected that there might be a relationship 11:55 between the factors that cause breast cancer and the factors 11:59 that cause prostate cancer. 12:01 Do you have an idea about that? 12:02 I think that there really is quite good evidence 12:05 and doctors have realized this 12:08 even in the treatment of, say breast cancer or prostate 12:12 cancer, it's well known that the corresponding hormones... 12:17 female hormones in a woman with breast cancer 12:20 and the male hormone, testosterone, in a man 12:23 with prostate cancer, are going to often, not always, 12:27 but the large majority of cases are, in fact, going to foster 12:31 promote the growth of that cancer. 12:33 And, therefore, if you can block that hormone's activity... 12:37 in fact they used to do surgery, 12:42 maybe it's still done... 12:43 of castrating a man with prostate cancer and then 12:48 your growth will be cut way down in the cancer. 12:52 Because the major testosterone source is lost... That's right. 12:55 Yes, I remember back when I was in medical school, 12:59 they were already doing... 13:00 in fact, that was one of the best procedures considered was 13:03 a prostatectomy with an orchiectomy at the same time... 13:07 so the testes and the prostate were both taken out 13:10 at the same time. 13:11 Now, on that issue, that's where these phytochemicals are 13:14 so interesting. 13:17 There are plant foods that have phytochemicals 13:24 that act as hormones. 13:29 They mimic the action of estrogen or of testosterone. 13:35 In general, they are quite gentle compared to the force of 13:40 one's own hormones... and, therefore, they're not going to 13:48 cause a tremendous effect. 13:50 And, in fact, the gentleness of their stimulation towards 13:54 that hormone activity, is a help because they will occupy 13:59 the site... the receptor site 14:02 where that hormone would act in your body, 14:04 and so they're blocking the hormone... your own hormone 14:08 that would stimulate more strongly 14:12 and so that they are then in fact damping, slowing down 14:17 that stimulation that you would get from one's own hormone. 14:20 It's interesting how our Heavenly Father looks down 14:23 through the centuries and knew that in this age, 14:27 with all the things that we have to make us have an increased 14:31 risk of cancer... 14:32 He gave us that protective thing with the plants. 14:34 He put into the plants that that would occupy 14:38 the stimulating site for cancer by our own very powerful 14:44 hormones. 14:45 I'm thankful to our Heavenly Father for the way that He made 14:48 us and made a world for us to live in that was very 14:52 user-friendly. 14:53 Should we mention one of those phytochemicals? 14:56 Why yes, I'd like it if you would. 14:57 In fact, we won't get through your list here... nor mine. 15:01 Well, you might have more than I do. 15:03 I didn't write down a whole lot but I thought we should 15:04 say one anyway... "lycopene" 15:08 Lycopene is one of these phytochemicals that has been 15:14 found to definitely help prevent and perhaps even 15:19 help when the cancer is present, to keep it from growing so fast. 15:25 I've heard of dosing like 15 to 20 mg 3 times a day 15:30 of lycopene which is found in tomatoes... 15:33 I'll tell you, instead of taking a little pill with 15 to 20 mg 15:38 of lycopene 3 times a day, 15:39 I would much rather eat the tomatoes. 15:41 Absolutely... a whole tomato. 15:43 No reason why you can't eat... 15:44 you don't have to eat just a little slice... ah no.. 15:47 You can eat a whole tomato because they are only this 15:50 big... you know we always think of eating a whole apple. 15:52 Now you mentioned about the Lord does let us do some things 15:55 with food and cooking can, in fact, be helpful. 15:59 Here's a good example... Uh huh. 16:01 With cooking of tomatoes, it's felt that, 16:06 in fact, if anything, you release more lycopene. 16:09 And so, tomato sauce, as long as you're using other good 16:12 ingredients with it, is a worthwhile thing to use. 16:15 Yes, in fact, it probably makes it so that we can absorb it 16:19 better. 16:20 And so the Lord instructs us that we should cook and 16:23 that we should grind and whatever we wish to but 16:28 He has made these foods for us very nicely. 16:31 Now I notice here that tomatoes are red and lycopenes are red... 16:37 What about watermelons and beets and some mangos 16:43 and some other tropical fruits? 16:44 Are they also high in lycopenes? 16:47 Dr. Agatha, you're asking because I think you've got the 16:49 answer... Yes, we don't have to take the pill. 16:53 And let's say you're sensitive to tomatoes... is all lost? 16:57 You're not going to be able to get lycopenes because 16:59 unfortunately you're sensitive... No, you can 17:03 eat a lot of other things. 17:04 You can eat tomatoes, or ANYTHING that's red. 17:07 And a lot of things that are red are just absolutely 17:11 wonderful to the palate as well. 17:14 I'd like to come in with one other thing that has a 17:18 fascinating story to me with regard to prostate cancer. 17:22 This time, it's probably not lycopene. 17:28 It's a phytosterol... that is one of these phytochemicals 17:35 that acts like a hormone... 17:38 Sterol... I would think that sterol would be one of the 17:41 steroidal-types like estrogen and testosterone... Yes. 17:46 Yes, those steroidal... phytosterols 17:50 Phytosterols and this was with respect to red clover... Ah yes 17:58 Red clover has quite a lot of this in it. 18:00 Now the story is this... 18:02 A doctor in Australia must have had some symptoms 18:07 of perhaps a lump that was felt in his prostate. 18:10 He had it checked out and a biopsy showed it was cancer. 18:16 For some reason, there was a delay until the definitive 18:19 surgery was done. 18:20 During this time, he went ahead and took, 18:24 I guess on a hunch... he had an idea that red clover might do 18:28 something and he took a concentrated extract of 18:32 red clover for those days or weeks until the surgery occurred 18:37 When they did the surgery, 18:39 and the pathologist looked at what should have been 18:41 ...you know, necrotic or... not necrotic... it should have been 18:45 cancer cells there... 18:46 Instead what was seen was a whole ream of dead necrotic... 18:53 that's where I want to use the word... the dead cells 18:55 And, as a result of that, there has been quite a spark of 18:59 interest that has ignited over the issue of whether, in fact, 19:03 red clover or other sources of similar phytosterols 19:08 might be very useful for prostate cancer and perhaps 19:11 breast cancer, since the two have similarities like that. 19:15 Yes, there is a product on the market, 19:19 I believe called, is it "Promensil"... that's the one. 19:22 ...That we have used for men with prostate cancer. 19:25 And, you know, it's interesting that those cancer cells 19:29 actually died with this nutrient ... Yes 19:32 So there are nutrients that build and there are nutrients 19:35 that will not allow certain cells to grow... 19:38 Or maybe they act as a restrictor of the blood supply. 19:45 Every tumor, every cancer has to produce its own blood supply, 19:49 has to grow it's own blood supply. 19:51 And some of these "phytochemicals" 19:54 will cause an inhibition or a closing down of the specific 19:59 blood vessels that supply the cancer... 20:03 and when there is an attempt to increase the growth of 20:09 blood vessels by the cancer, there is an inhibition of this 20:14 so-called "angiogenesis" 20:16 or the building of blood cells. 20:18 Yes, in fact we have recommended and worked with people using 20:26 a substance that has been extracted from 20:29 what's called "bindweed. " 20:30 Oh yes, bindweed. 20:31 I think there is a fair bit of that around 20:33 and it does the very thing that you describe. 20:36 It inhibits that growth of blood vessels that are required 20:39 by a tumor or a cancer so that the cells will stay alive. 20:43 Do you know if they have discovered what it is 20:46 in bindweed... what that phytochemical name is? 20:49 No, I don't recall the name. 20:51 I don't know that either but the term "bindweed" 20:54 is sort of catchy, you know, 20:57 and so I remember that one very well. 21:00 I thought, just one little point there... 21:02 People think of cancer as... of course, it is a terrible thing 21:08 but they think of it as a monster that there is no 21:11 release from and as those cancer cells are as though they're 21:15 infallible. 21:16 But the facts are, that actually cancer cells are weaker 21:19 than our normal cells... Yes 21:22 When a fever is undergone, 21:26 if there's something that puts a stress on cells, often it's 21:29 the cancer cells will die first rather than our own good cells. 21:34 If a person fasts, the cancer cells will suffer first 21:38 before our own... 21:39 So, are you thinking then of something like fever treatments 21:44 or fever baths? 21:45 Exactly... I think that this has to do with a number of 21:48 natural treatments that are used and it's just simply a 21:52 fact that the cancer cells are more susceptible. 21:55 So if we bring, let's say the mouth temperature 21:59 up and up and up, as far as a patient can comfortably 22:05 or maybe a little uncomfortably tolerate it... 22:08 we should be able to heat the cancer up enough so that its 22:12 cells become much more vulnerable to damage, 22:16 than one's own cells would. 22:18 In fact, one's own cells won't begin to get damage until 22:22 we're above 110... 22:24 and so we could bring maybe a person's mouth temperature 22:29 up to 103 or 104 degrees and expect that maybe the internal 22:35 temperature might be 105 degrees... 22:37 And, at least in the laboratory, it has been shown that cancer 22:42 cells taken up that high, even above 103, often will die 22:47 and will almost always, that cell will be unlikely to 22:53 reproduce itself. 22:54 And then, of course, the other big factor we are doing 22:57 when we raise that temperature is we're adding a tremendous 22:59 stimulus to the immune system... Yes.. 23:01 ...which can then attack too 23:03 We are not defenseless against cancer... That's right. 23:06 The Lord has given us such cells as the natural killer cells. 23:11 And, these cells are quite capable of seeking out and 23:17 attacking the cancer cells. 23:21 Now in a certain class of foods, 23:24 the so-called cruciferous foods, the cabbage and bok choy 23:32 and radishes and turnip greens and broccoli and brussel sprouts 23:36 LARGE FAMILY! 23:37 There are some cancer inhibiting or cancer destroying properties 23:46 sulforaphanes and all that indole group, 23:51 the indole carbinols and the like. 23:53 All of these can have a benefit in cancer. 23:58 Do you have any special word on that? 23:59 Don't ask me for many names but there is one that has 24:04 stuck in my mind from soy... Ah ha 24:08 And this one is "genistein"... Yes 24:12 I believe there's another called "daidzein" 24:15 And these I don't believe are so linked to steroid activity 24:23 but instead they're strong antioxidants that will also help 24:27 fight cancer. 24:29 Now an interesting thing about the soy protein 24:32 is that soy protein has fairly recently been shown 24:38 to be protective to the kidney. 24:40 And so individuals with kidney problems 24:44 and sometimes people with cancer and other diseases 24:49 also have kidney problems like with diabetes, they 24:53 may have kidney problems, and the soy protein has been shown 24:55 to be actually protective for them. 24:59 That was very interesting to me 25:02 to see that there is this effect of soy protein... 25:06 because when you have kidney failure, 25:08 the standard rule has been way down on protein... 25:12 You know, barely enough to sustain life... Yes 25:16 But here, they've done experiments and shown that 25:18 the function of the kidney actually improves with the use 25:22 of soy protein. 25:23 Yes, so a vegetarian diet can indeed be used then 25:27 for a kidney problem... Definitely. 25:28 I wonder if it's the protein, or if there is another of these 25:33 amazing little phytochemicals that God puts in foods... 25:37 In any case, it works with the soy. 25:39 Yes it does. It works. 25:41 And that's, of course, the thing that is most helpful. 25:45 Now, there's another food that many of us like a lot... 25:50 Garlic. 25:51 And, what do you know about the phytochemicals in garlic? 25:55 You know, there's a host of them in garlic too 25:58 Now again, how many names are there? 26:01 You know, there's a whole list and every week some new ones 26:04 coming out and a lot of them with LONG names... 26:08 And I don't have many names at all. 26:10 I remember "allicin" is one of them. Yes, allicin. 26:13 And there's another one that is of interest to me... 26:17 It's called "ajoene" that's in garlic... Yes 26:20 And I believe that is the main anticoagulant 26:23 component of garlic. 26:24 And, when we speak of garlic, we're not talking about just one 26:27 property. 26:28 There are a number of medicinal properties of garlic. 26:32 I think a lot of people have heard about it 26:35 fighting infection. 26:36 It's an antibiotic in its nature but it actually helps. 26:40 They've shown that in animals that have cancers, 26:43 garlic will somehow promote the immune system, 26:48 or will somehow work in there and I don't think 26:50 it's completely understood how... that's right... 26:52 that it will fight the cancer. 26:54 And there are several other effects of garlic. 26:56 All of them probably mediated by these phytochemicals 27:00 You can see very easily why the ancients considered it 27:04 to be the food of the gods. 27:06 They also called it the "stinking rose," and it does 27:10 have some stinking properties especially on the breath. 27:14 But nowadays, you can get some of the properties in the 27:17 deodorized forms of garlic which are quite common today. 27:22 If we did like the East Europeans, 27:25 everyone eats garlic and no one worries about a garlic smell... 27:28 In fact, if you don't have garlic on your breath, 27:30 you are considered to be a little bit gauche, maybe... 27:34 ...not in with the in crowd. 27:37 So, as we think about these wonderful things, 27:39 I'm just sorry out time has run out to talk about 27:42 all of these wonderful things that God has produced 27:46 and has put in the foods to make it so that we can 27:49 be healthy and happy 27:51 and of a good frame of mind. |
Revised 2014-12-17