Participants: Wynn Horsely, Don Miller, Agatha Thrash
Series Code: HYTH
Program Code: HYTH000164
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00:01 Hello, I'm Agatha Thrash one of the staff physicians
00:04 at Uchee Pines Institute. 00:07 We deal a lot in the heart and the heart is one of those 00:11 organs most involved in getting a beating from a wrong lifestyle 00:18 So, we will be talking, during the next half an hour 00:20 about what you can do to help yourself not get a beating 00:26 in the heart from a poor lifestyle. 00:29 So we hope you will join us. 00:49 Welcome to "Help Yourself to Health" 00:51 with Dr. Agatha Thrash of Uchee Pines Institute 00:55 And now, here's your host, Dr. Thrash. 00:59 We read a lot and we hear a lot about life style 01:03 and how it's wrong, or how it's good. 01:07 And what can be done to make it so that the heart 01:10 is LESS likely to have a problem from 01:13 poor lifestyle problems. 01:15 Now you know, in this country, we find a lot, we read a lot 01:19 in newspapers. 01:20 I have some papers here in my hand, some reprints 01:24 of medical journals that tell about all these problems 01:28 that we have in our lifestyle. 01:31 All of those things that we can do that will correct 01:34 these lifestyles and so I'm very happy that we have SO much 01:38 that's written and so much that's spoken about 01:40 today that can give us some help, 01:43 so that the things that we have done since childhood 01:47 ...the way that our parents lived that gave them diabetes 01:50 and heart disease and hypertension... 01:52 We know a lot now about things that can help us not to succumb 01:57 to those diseases. 01:59 So, I've asked one of my colleagues at Uchee Pines 02:03 Dr. Winn Horsley, to join me so that we can discuss for you 02:07 some of those issues that can strengthen the body 02:12 This is Dr. Winn Horsley, who is 02:14 one of our physicians at Uchee Pines. 02:17 And I am interested in our talking some about maybe 02:23 the difference between animal foods or foods of animal origin 02:28 and foods of plant origin. 02:31 Of course today, we're hearing a good bit about that 02:34 and just what we can do ourselves... 02:37 Are all plants good? 02:39 Are all animal products not good? 02:41 And what can you tell us about this item? 02:46 Well, one of the terms that's used a fair bit is the 02:52 expression... "saturated vs. unsaturated fats" 02:57 and the relation of that to another term... "cholesterol" 03:04 I think is worth talking about for a minute. 03:09 Now, unsaturated fats are in many vegetable 03:17 and plant products... 03:18 the big majority would be what would be 03:20 called "unsaturated fats. " 03:23 They are generally liquid ... liquid oils 03:27 Liquid at room temperature... 03:29 ...at room temperature. 03:30 If you have a saturated fat of the usual kind of 03:37 edible food types of saturated fat, 03:41 they are often SOLID at room temperature. 03:44 You mean like a lard? Lard, Crisco, butter... so on. 03:49 And, in fact, the process of hydrogenation takes 03:54 an unsaturated fat and makes it into a saturated one... 03:58 Like corn oil and saturates the carbon chain 04:05 and makes it into a hard fat... That's right. That's right. 04:08 So, that's one aspect of the issue. 04:13 Now, since we're talking about heart disease, 04:16 we've got to get to those lesions in the heart... 04:19 the plugging of the arteries that occurs 04:22 and if they're already are deposits in those arteries, 04:31 then saturated fat can get entangled in that... 04:37 and add to it. 04:38 So the cholesterol goes in first, 04:41 then you eat saturated fats, and it can get entangled 04:46 in the plaque inside the artery as well... That's right! 04:49 You went right ahead and pointed out, 04:51 the real ultimate, basic culprit is that cholesterol 04:55 that first sticks on the wall. 04:58 It's not saturated fats that start or are the 05:02 primary enemy here. 05:05 Now the wall itself, or the lining itself... 05:09 Is it somehow... doomed from the birth of the person 05:14 to get cholesterol stuck on it? 05:17 No... maybe it would be worthwhile to show an artery 05:24 with the deposit that's forming Good, yes. 05:43 Now here's an artery that should be wide open, 05:44 and we have it this way, so the blood can just course 05:47 through it. 05:48 If we get a deposit forming, of course that will interfere 05:55 with the flow... 05:56 And the initial factor, the initial substance 06:00 that causes this is one of the fractions of cholesterol 06:05 that will stick... it's sticky.. to the surface on the inside 06:11 of the artery. 06:14 Now, once it there, you can get saturated fat entangled. 06:20 Now maybe one should say a word about cholesterol... 06:25 We shouldn't think of cholesterol as totally an enemy 06:28 We need cholesterol in our body. 06:32 It's the basis for building several hormones... 06:35 But, the essential point is that all the cholesterol we need 06:40 is produced by our liver. 06:42 You don't need any from the outside. 06:46 And the BIG problem is... 06:47 that the cholesterol that comes from the outside actually 06:50 has changed... 06:51 The oxygen in the air has changed it, so it becomes toxic 06:56 So that cholesterol that might come in eggs or in meat products 07:01 or milk or cheese... has been changed by the oxygen in the air 07:09 to make a more damaging type of cholesterol... Exactly 07:14 Called oxidized cholesterol... That's right. 07:18 And with respect to cholesterol, I think it's worthwhile 07:24 for us just to take a minute to point out where it is. 07:27 Now the saturated and nonsaturated fats are in various 07:35 plant foods. 07:36 There is some saturated fat in nuts... 07:41 There's also some unsaturated fats... it varies according to 07:44 what nuts you have. 07:45 BUT, there is no cholesterol at all in any plant food. 07:53 None at all... even in coconut which does have a lot of 07:57 saturated fat. 07:59 Now, if it's not in plant foods, where's the cholesterol? 08:03 Well, it's all in the animal foods. 08:06 And here, I'd like to point out, people I think feel better 08:11 when they use skim milk... feeling that, you know, 08:14 you've taken the fat out. 08:16 And, cholesterol is called a fat. 08:19 It's a kind of fat but it's a very special kind of fat 08:22 And, in fact, it is not all removed with making skim milk 08:28 There are, I believe it's 5 mg approximately 08:34 in an average cup of skim milk. 08:36 Now if you use powdered skim milk, 08:39 you're in a worse problem because the very process 08:44 of evaporating and having using all that air to make 08:47 powdered skim milk, oxidizes whatever cholesterol 08:51 was there and makes it more damaging. 08:53 So if you take a powder and make a glass of milk, 08:59 and you feel really good about it, 09:02 because, you know, it's been skimmed... 09:05 It's called "fat-free" Yes... 09:08 Then you feel good about it, but that little bit that is 09:11 left, is quite damaging. Absolutely. 09:15 Now one other aspect of this problem that we should mention 09:21 is that people will, therefore, try to avoid fat 09:27 in animal products... 09:29 You've probably heard of this. 09:30 You know, hunting for lean meat... and so on. 09:34 One thing that I think is not generally realized... 09:38 And I believe it's not even generally realized 09:40 in the nutrition and medical community is some research 09:44 ...some very careful research that we done at Loma Linda 09:48 quite a few years ago which pointed out... proved 09:53 that animal products... 09:55 Well, let's be specific in what the research was... 09:57 They used milk. Milk from cows... 10:00 Compared its effect on the blood cholesterol of animals 10:06 with other animals that got soymilk... 10:10 And the interesting thing was... 10:12 The ones that received the cow's milk, which was 10:18 completely defatted... 10:19 Now this time, I believe they took out all the cholesterol 10:22 as well as all the fat, so it was not only skim milk, 10:25 it was TOTALLY fat-free and cholesterol-free. 10:29 Nevertheless, those animals had a rise in the cholesterol 10:34 in blood; whereas, the ones that took the soymilk 10:39 had a drop in the cholesterol. 10:41 Very interesting... It is! 10:43 And the only way that the researcher could explain this, 10:45 and I think it's the only way to explain it... 10:47 is that the protein... perhaps something else but 10:50 main ingredient of milk, aside from the fat would be 10:53 the protein... animal protein raises blood cholesterol. 10:58 Well that would make sense because, certainly with milk, 11:03 our Great Divine Designer created that milk to make 11:08 little animals grow, so it has a growth factor in it 11:11 and the growth factor would make the growth of anything 11:16 that might be either normal, or abnormal in the body... 11:20 that growth factor could cause the interior of a blood vessel 11:25 to grow and that would make it more susceptible 11:29 to getting the cholesterol deposited in it 11:31 in the first place... Right. 11:36 At this point, since there are so many things that one could 11:39 say about cholesterol and its fractions... 11:43 People have heard of HDL, LDL, and so on, 11:46 and some of the issues that we're already discussing 11:50 about saturated and unsaturated fat and cholesterol... 11:54 The picture can, sometimes, get a little bit muddy... 11:57 And people wonder, well what's the underlying story here... 12:00 And, as you look closely at it, the bottom line, 12:10 is that we really need to avoid animal products 12:14 In other words, that rule of eating that God gave back 12:18 in the Garden of Eden, you just can't do better than that, 12:22 which is "of all these trees, and of the plants bearing seed 12:26 ...these will be your food. " 12:27 Take your food from the plants that God has made for us 12:31 and that will certainly be the very best thing. 12:34 Now if a person has a buildup on the inside of the blood vessels 12:39 of this cholesterol and other fatty deposits, 12:42 and has a heart attack, is there something that 12:45 THAT person... already damaged by his heart attack... 12:51 Is there more to lifestyle than diet that would help the person 12:56 with avoiding a coronary artery attack in the future? 13:01 There is something further that one could say... 13:05 I just feel like the FIRST part about diet is so 13:10 central... more important than anything further 13:12 that we could say, that it needs tremendous emphasis... 13:16 No person can avoid a change in diet... even those who are 13:21 on a relatively good diet usually need some changes, 13:26 Correct... Or some adjustments of some kind. 13:28 And that little bit of animal product that people are using, 13:31 even looking in ingredients and seeing... is there 13:33 a very small amount of the milk product being used. 13:37 It really is worthwhile to track that down and get rid of it. 13:41 Just remember this point, the underlying culprit 13:45 is the cholesterol. 13:46 There is no cholesterol in ANY of the plant products. 13:52 But going beyond then... 13:54 Yes, there are things we can do. 14:00 We should, perhaps, put up on the board.. 14:07 the good cholesterol fraction that actually helps to clear out 14:12 some of this debris, so I'll put the term up here... 14:17 "High density lipoprotein" HDL... that many people nowadays 14:22 are seeing on their lab reports. 14:24 So this is one part of the cholesterol. 14:27 In most lab reports about this, you'll have one line 14:30 that will be the total cholesterol 14:32 I'll just abbreviate T. Chol... total cholesterol 14:36 and another line will give you the good cholesterol... the HDL 14:40 that actually helps clear out plaques. 14:42 Well, clearly one wants to lower the total cholesterol, 14:48 that's become clear... over many years, decades of study 14:53 But we want to raise the HDL as high as we can. 14:57 And one product that helps us that way is garlic. 15:01 It takes a fair bit of use. 15:03 It won't just happen overnight or even in the first week or 2. 15:08 Several months probably... Several months! 15:10 A study that I saw by Dr. Benjamin Lau, 15:15 I believe that was done at Loma Linda... 15:18 He showed that it was past 3 months before you got this 15:23 favorable change. 15:24 Now, one of the surprising things to think about 15:27 that at first when a person starts dissolving these 15:31 plaques... these deposits of cholesterol, 15:33 the first place they're going to go is into the blood. 15:37 And so if the blood cholesterol level stays a little high, 15:41 at least at first... It's not surprising 15:45 and you might be doing just what's needed... Yes. 15:47 In fact, that may be the very sign that you're looking for... 15:50 That the cholesterol is coming out of the plaques, 15:53 and, of course, has to be dealt with through the blood... 15:55 and goes back to the liver. 15:57 And you know, another thing that will raise the HDL is exercise. 16:01 I'm glad you mentioned that. 16:03 In fact, those are really the 2 big things, garlic and exercise 16:07 and perhaps exercise is the most important. 16:10 And you can get some benefit from regularity in your schedule 16:14 ...going to bed on time and getting up on time, 16:17 and also, you can get some benefit by being out in the 16:21 sunshine and I think doing purposeful labor! 16:24 I believe that when a person has that little bit of coercion 16:30 that comes from a job that needs to be done, 16:33 and not just ordinary calisthenics or things like 16:39 running or walking but some purposeful labor that 16:44 carries with it that little urgency... 16:47 Got to weed the garden today, or I've got to clear out 16:50 this area. 16:51 That helps a lot, I think, and the sense of job well done 16:56 I think that improves the HDL as well. 16:59 You know, you mentioned sunlight? Um hm. 17:03 And it's an amazing thing how 17:07 the Lord makes things work together. 17:10 Sunlight changes cholesterol deposited in the skin 17:15 into vitamin D. Yes... 17:17 Just what we need for our bones and lowers our cholesterol level 17:21 to more favorable levels. 17:24 We couldn't have been made better. 17:30 There's no improvement possible. 17:32 I'd like to speak, just a little bit, about such things as 17:37 fiber to make the LDL go down. 17:41 Do you know anything special about that? 17:45 YES! The fiber that's in food, of course, is the 17:49 part of food that is not broken down 17:53 and does not enter the bloodstream. 17:54 Instead, it stays right in the intestines. 17:56 And fiber, binds to bile salts, 18:03 and bile salts, are interconverted all the time 18:06 with cholesterol. 18:08 And when the fiber binds those, it carries them out of the body 18:12 Now if a person is not eating much fiber, 18:15 those bile salts, are reabsorbed by the intestine 18:18 and used again and helping to keep that cholesterol pool 18:22 filled high. 18:23 When you eat a lot of fiber, it takes those bile salts, 18:26 carries them out, and you don't have an easy 18:29 replenished supply of cholesterol. 18:31 So that helps... 18:32 If you simply eat a lot of fiber, that helps the 18:35 cholesterol to go out of your body, 18:38 lowers your blood cholesterol. 18:40 What about the drugs that are used to lower the cholesterol? 18:45 Is your experience a good one with those? 18:49 I have tried to stay totally with means that don't 18:55 include drugs because the diet treatment 18:57 is SO successful. 19:00 I'm just reemphasizing this point again 19:05 since we were talking about fiber... 19:08 One should say, again, What foods have fiber? 19:12 You look at every animal food, eggs, dairy, meat... 19:18 even though meat looks like it has fiber, it has nothing 19:20 that has fiber in the nutritional sense. 19:23 It has fibrous tissue... Yes which is tough but it is not 19:27 fiber... it is a protein and fiber is a carbohydrate... 19:31 Right... only in the plant foods, 19:35 animal foods have no fiber. 19:37 And when we look at the plant foods, by contrast, 19:40 as long as they're the way they came in nature, 19:42 the way the Creator made them, every plant food... 19:46 fruits, vegetables, grains, and even nuts... 19:52 the people blame for being so fatty... 19:55 In fact, all nuts have some fiber. 19:56 ALL those foods that are plant in origin have fiber. 20:00 Do the drugs to lower cholesterol have a 20:02 down side to them? 20:03 Is there anything that might be harmful 20:06 to the body from taking them? 20:08 Well, there definitely can be. 20:11 In fact, they interfere with liver functions 20:16 that are involved with producing and working with cholesterol. 20:19 So the liver actually takes a bit of a beating with the 20:24 drugs for lowering the cholesterol... Correct. 20:28 It damages the liver and makes it so that it cannot do its 20:33 functioning well. 20:34 You, I know, have had some experience with charcoal... 20:39 Yes, we've used charcoal in the treatment of 20:43 high blood cholesterol rather successfully. 20:46 I know a woman whose blood cholesterol was over 220 20:50 and she had fought really diligently to bring it down 20:55 and we had tried almost everything... 20:57 and FINALLY we encouraged her to take 21:01 a heaping tablespoonful of charcoal 4 times a day... 21:06 And within about 3 months, her cholesterol 21:08 had come down some... 21:09 So we were very encouraged and we had her 21:12 to go another 3 months and it had come down even further. 21:15 And, within about a year, or less, 21:19 maybe it was about 8 months... 21:21 she was down to about 160. 21:24 And so we were very much encouraged with that. 21:28 There's another thing that I like a lot... 21:30 in the treatment of people with any kind of heart problem 21:34 or artery problem, or for that matter, any kind of 21:37 internal organ problem and that is CoQ-10 21:41 Coenzyme Q-10 which can be purchased at any 21:45 department store, or any pharmacy like Wal-Mart, or 21:50 any other pharmacy. 21:51 You can get the CoQ-10 which is a nourishing 21:55 substance for the heart. 21:57 It's a natural substance and nourishes the heart and 22:00 makes it strong. 22:01 So, I like that also and like to work with that. 22:05 You know, there is a whole new aspect of this problem 22:13 of plugging arteries that's coming out in the last decade 22:16 or so that might be worth mentioning... Yes 22:19 And that is, it's no longer an exclusive focus on the 22:24 mechanical blocking of arteries. 22:26 There's been a lot of interest in the issue of inflammation 22:30 being involved... Oh yes 22:32 Now this is quite related to the point about 22:35 oxidized cholesterol, oxidized LDL 22:39 that apparently it's inflammation that is 22:44 part of this... the wall and the oxidized LDL take part in 22:50 inflammatory reaction. 22:51 It brings in many white blood cells which then try to consume 22:57 the bad products... the cholesterol and so on, 22:59 and become known as foam cells. 23:02 Well this whole problem of inflammation is one aspect, 23:06 then there's another one which is coagulation that happens 23:11 often and that's the final event that leads to total blockage. 23:15 Is there time to show just a little bit on the 23:19 board that way... Yes, sure. 23:21 Yes, I'm very interested in this matter of inflammation 23:25 and of coagulation because that's so important to us 23:30 The whole process would sort of fall down if that weren't 23:34 a part of the features of it ... Ah ha 23:37 I'm going to draw a lesion here in a way that makes 23:43 it a little more obvious. 23:44 You've got a mound of deposit here in the artery wall 23:52 which is our deposit of cholesterol and debris 23:55 and as that has formed, the body reacts. 24:02 We said there was inflammation there... 24:04 Wherever there's inflammation, the body tries to heal 24:07 this problem... 24:08 In fact you can say inflammation is the healing response... 24:11 And so it tries to put a covering and does succeed 24:16 in putting a covering over this. 24:20 I don't know if that is... 24:22 It sort of grows a new lining over it, doesn't it? 24:25 It does, it's a lining that really is, I think, an attempt 24:29 to reestablish the normal lining that the blood vessel has 24:33 This is very important because the endothelium, the lining 24:38 of the blood vessel, does not cause clotting. 24:40 And of course, clotting would be a disaster. 24:43 Now, something can happen for some reason, 24:48 perhaps a new inflammatory process with more LDL 24:52 In any case, you can get a break in this lining that 25:00 has reestablished and this really is a serious problem 25:04 because this tissue, the cholesterol and debris that was 25:09 there, does tend to form a clot... 25:12 And so now, we get clot-forming materials that will 25:20 deposit and clots tend to grow... we all know that 25:24 in medicine... 25:25 And this often is the final catastrophic event 25:30 that completely blocks the blood vessel. 25:32 And I have seen, in microscopic sections, cross sections of this 25:37 I've seen the foam cells in here that you mentioned 25:40 which are the inflammatory cells trying to help it and 25:43 the clot, and sort of an ulceration of this plaque 25:48 that once it has ulcerated, then you've got debris 25:53 floating around in the bloodstream which makes 25:56 more than a small problem for the blood vessels 26:00 that are downstream from it. 26:03 Well, one of the standard things for treating this 26:06 is aspirin. 26:07 Aspirin is an anticoagulant. 26:11 It does stop clots to a certain extent from forming. 26:16 On the other hand, it has a downside to it though. 26:19 And I think many people know of stomach problems 26:24 resulting from aspirin. 26:26 A way that we could be involved with it in a very simple way, 26:32 avoiding, preventing this from happening... 26:34 Even when a person already has deposits, lesions like this 26:39 in their arteries, there are some very simple, 26:42 gentle anticoagulants that could be used... 26:44 And one of those is garlic. 26:45 Garlic and also grape juice. That's right! 26:48 Five to 8 ounces of grape juice a day is a very good 26:52 anticoagulant and is better, actually, than aspirin 26:56 in some tests that I have seen reported.. Really? 26:59 It's an interesting thing also that the dentists have been 27:03 saying for a long time this... that you were saying about 27:05 the inflammation... Um hm. 27:07 Infected teeth are often a big problem to cause this 27:12 inflammatory response in the body, or anyplace 27:15 that we have some chronic infectious or inflammatory 27:19 problem going on in the body. 27:21 That can be a source of the inflammatory products 27:25 that get into the bloodstream and then make all of this 27:29 process of the foam cells, the white blood cells that 27:34 take up fat and cholesterol and then, under the microscope 27:41 we see them as big foamy cells that deposit there 27:45 in the arteries. 27:47 So, I hope that you see that there are some very 27:50 practical aspects of this thing of the heart 27:53 and you can act accordingly. |
Revised 2014-12-17