Participants: Don Miller, Agatha Thrash
Series Code: HYTH
Program Code: HYTH000160
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00:01 Hello, I'm Agatha Thrash a staff physician
00:03 from Uchee Pines Institute in Alabama. 00:06 And we've been noticing that a lot of people are turning 00:10 to alternative medicine in recent years. 00:14 Now these alternative medicines cost the people 00:18 in the United States more than 10 billion dollars every year, 00:22 so it's a big business. 00:24 And it is also a very interesting phenomenon. 00:28 And we'd like to discuss some of these issues in the next 00:31 little while with you, so we hope you will join us. 00:55 Welcome to "Help Yourself to Health" 00:56 with Dr. Agatha Thrash of Uchee Pines Institute 01:00 and now, here's your host Dr. Thrash 01:05 A large part of what people spend their money for 01:08 when they're buying alternative medicine is that of 01:12 herbs and supplements. 01:14 Now, we might think of herbs as being 01:17 those things from plants, 01:18 and supplements as those things that are extracted from 01:22 foods such as vitamins and minerals and that kind of thing. 01:26 Now with the herbs, there are a variety of types of herbs 01:31 and a variety of ways to prepare them. 01:33 Some of those are simple and some of them are very complex. 01:36 But in the home, for the most part, people use two methods... 01:41 Either that of steeping, or that of boiling. 01:44 And I have with me today, Melissa Thrash, who is 01:47 my granddaughter and she's going to talk with you about 01:51 teas... what do you have there? 01:53 I've got tea here. 01:54 The way you'd make a tea would be to boil 1 cup of water, 01:58 and pour the hot water into some kind of glass 02:02 and add 1 teaspoon of a leaf, or 1/2 teaspoon of a powder 02:07 to the glass... stir it in 02:11 and cover the glass and allow it to steep for about 02:15 15 to 20 minutes, or 30 minutes, depending on the herb. 02:19 What do you use to cover it with usually? 02:23 A saucer maybe, a little saucer ... Oh, okay. 02:26 Could cover it with the saucer. 02:28 There are some mugs that come with a little cap that 02:33 will go on them but this makes a very nice cover... Sure! 02:37 You can just put the spoon right here on it and... 02:40 no muss... no fuss. Right. 02:43 The standard dosage for tea would be 1 cup 4 times a day, 02:48 but for a child, the dosage would be different. 02:51 The dosage for a child would be... 02:58 the age divided by the age, plus 12. 03:03 So say for a child of 4 years old, 03:08 it would be 4 + 12 = 16 03:14 4 into 4 would be 1 4 into 16 would be 4 03:18 So a child 4 years old, would receive a dosage of 03:20 1/4 the times that an adult would receive. 03:24 Okay, now I'm going to tell you about a decoction. 03:27 Roots, stems, berries and barks are used for decoctions 03:31 because they're harder to extract. 03:34 You'd want to take the roots, stems, berries or barks 03:39 and take a heaping tablespoon full of it into a quart full 03:46 of water and gently simmer it for 5 to 25 minutes depending 03:50 on the herb and then you can strain it... if it has 03:54 big pieces in it and you can cool it and drink it then, 03:57 or store it in the refrigerator for later use. 04:00 Very good... do people get real benefit from these... 04:04 Have you seen that to happen? Oh yes. 04:07 Have you ever taken an herbal tea yourself? I have. 04:10 What about a decoction? Have you ever taken goldenseal? 04:14 Goldenseal... I have. It's not very good-tasting, 04:16 but it really works. 04:18 Very effective... but it is very, very bitter. 04:21 I think it's probably one of the most bitter substances 04:24 that I've ever taken. 04:25 I don't usually have a problem taking bitter things, 04:28 but it can make you shutter. 04:30 But when you're very sick, you're very willing to take it 04:32 because if you've had it, 04:34 you know that it can be very beneficial for you. 04:37 Now, there are a wide variety of herbs that can be used 04:42 either as teas mainly, or as decoctions, or they can be 04:46 extracted with glycerin, or with vinegar, or with alcohol 04:51 But, in the home, most of the time, we simply extract 04:56 the active ingredient with water. 04:58 Either by using the boiling water and the tea steeped 05:01 for a half an hour, or boiling gently... 05:05 It isn't a vigorous boil as a usual thing and then 05:09 that is usually for a half an hour. 05:12 There are a lot of other things in alternative medicine 05:17 and I have asked my colleague, Dr. Winn Horsley, 05:20 to join me that we can talk about some of the issues 05:24 that are involved now in alternative medicine... 05:28 By the way, are you entirely satisfied with this matter of 05:33 "alternative medicine" when it is referring to you? 05:38 No... I'm actually... 05:41 Are you a holistic doctor? 05:45 That term I would prefer... 05:48 The problem with "alternative" is that it sounds like a 05:53 devious... a second choice, like it's not really the ideal thing. 06:00 When one goes through looking at the reasonableness of how one 06:04 treats people... hunting for what we could call 06:07 "rational therapy" 06:09 ...REALLY, if we look closely, one could say that 06:15 a lot of what is done by doctors, 06:17 with use of the chemicals, 06:19 should really be a last ditch alternative... that that 06:22 should be considered alternative. 06:24 Nowadays, fortunately, there are quite a few doctors 06:27 that are paying close attention to what are the more 06:29 natural approaches... 06:30 Yes, like in hypertension. 06:34 A lot of times, a doctor will tell the patient a lot of 06:37 mainline things which they might call "alternative" but 06:43 we call mainline. 06:44 The natural, rational treatment of high blood pressure 06:48 and only as a LAST ditch measure, 06:51 would they go to the drugs. 06:54 What do you have against drugs? 06:56 That's a big question. 07:00 And one really should start out by saying that 07:04 doctors... any well-trained and thoughtful doctor is 07:08 very concerned about the use of these chemicals 07:12 that are taken into the body... 07:13 ...Chemicals that are foreign to the body. 07:15 And, the medical profession as a whole, 07:17 has for many years, seen some of the bad effects 07:23 that can happen. 07:25 In the practice of medicine, while looking first of all 07:30 at the regulating agencies, the FDA, 07:33 has a requirement of lots of scrutinizing of every 07:39 new drug that comes on the market... 07:41 trials that must be done. 07:43 And then pretty much every doctor uses one or more 07:50 standard books on drugs such as what's called the "PDR" 07:54 ..."Physician's Desk Reference" 07:55 And a large percentage of what's written there 07:58 is problems of side effects and so on. 08:03 The trouble is this though... 08:04 The side effects that should concern us most 08:08 are not those immediate side effects that bother people 08:12 right away... You mean like a headache or 08:14 nausea, fainting... Precisely, those kind of things 08:17 they're of course written up in the PDR... 08:22 But what should concern us most is the longer term, 08:26 in fact, the many years until the damage will show up. 08:29 Now, of course, doctors also realize this can be a problem 08:32 But I want to point out that it's not at all easy 08:36 to find out what these effects are. 08:38 It's not that doctors don't want to find them out... 08:41 I've just got here, a paper, just handed to me recently, 08:47 where 2 months ago, they had a study that involved 08:53 Harvard University in which they looked at serious adverse 08:58 effects of new drugs that are coming out. 09:01 And what they pointed out was that 20% of all new drugs 09:08 were found to have adverse, serious or even life-threatening 09:12 effects that were unknown or undisclosed 09:14 at the time the drug was approved by the FDA. 09:18 An interesting... That's very frightening. 09:21 One other point here is that these bad effects... 09:27 It says half of these serious, adverse effects were detected 09:32 within 7 years after the drug was first introduced. 09:36 So the REAL testing of a lot of these long-term, 09:39 dangerous effects is on the patients who are getting them 09:42 during the period of time after the drug is marketed... 09:45 But remember, only HALF of those were discovered within 09:48 within the first 7 years... 09:49 In other words, it took YEARS AFTER 7 years elapsed 09:52 to show up the last half of what effects they found 09:55 in the study. 09:57 ...And that doesn't mean that that's the end of 09:58 the bad effects... there are probably lots of others. 10:00 I have heard of women who were taking contraceptive pills 10:05 having an increased risk of migraines even 20 years 10:09 after they had stopped taking the drug. 10:12 And that's one small example. 10:14 I had another one in mind... maybe it was the same one 10:18 Methylsergide? Oh yes... 10:21 In that one, they found, after people were taking it 10:26 to PREVENT headaches, but it would have taken a number 10:30 of years for this to show up... 10:31 But scarring behind the main organs of the abdomen 10:37 ...way deep in... Deep... retroperitoneal is 10:41 the term that used... 10:42 This scarring and tightening bands of scar tissue 10:45 began to enclose the tubes that go from the kidneys 10:50 down to the bladder. 10:52 Doctors began to notice that there was some 10:55 occurrence of patients that became anuric... 10:57 No urine was being produced. 10:59 And, of course, a person will die 11:00 within a short time when that happens. 11:02 Well... I'm just imagining to myself... 11:05 How did they ever track it down to the drug that was involved? 11:08 They finally were able to find that THIS was the drug 11:12 that was victimizing these people. 11:13 It is difficult because since the lag time is so long 11:19 And what about antidepressants? 11:22 Have you had any experience or have you been reading some 11:24 things on that? 11:25 Well, we could say something about some of the 11:29 major tranquillizers that are used. 11:33 The main type of... major tranquillizers in here 11:41 Thorazine and other drugs of its class... 11:45 What they do in a fair number of patients... 11:49 We're not talking about a rare side effect 11:50 ...is that they cause changes in the central nervous system 11:55 that will lead to strange movements, 11:58 involuntary movements... where people grimace and 12:01 contort their lips and tongue and so on. 12:04 It's given the term "tardive dyskinesia" 12:08 Sometimes those effects will stop when the person 12:13 stops using the drug... but, by no means all the time. 12:16 There's quite a few people left with permanent problems 12:20 that way... Amazing. 12:21 Dr. Horsley, I saw a woman, one time, in another country 12:25 who had taken a rather strong medication, 12:28 and her life had been ruined by it. 12:31 She literally could not sit still... 12:35 She made these so called "athetoid movements" 12:38 and was constantly in movement of some kind 12:42 And she would bend over and even get on the floor 12:45 and wrap herself around her chair 12:49 She was constantly in a strain with that 12:53 and it really ruined her life. 12:55 It's something that I think many of us have seen 12:59 I've seen, particularly these grimaces that are SO disfiguring 13:03 and totally involuntary. 13:06 And, of course, the thing that is so difficult there 13:10 is that it's a long way away from finding the real problem. 13:17 What else can you tell us about this whole subject and issues 13:21 that are involved in medications? 13:24 Well, perhaps one could summarize it this way... 13:30 That the most scary side effects of drugs are those that are NOT 13:36 written in the PDR. 13:38 Now, they have found some, like those that pretty much 13:42 every competent doctor knows about... tardive dyskinesia, 13:45 and these major neurologic drugs that are used. 13:50 But there, the connection wasn't so hard to see... 13:54 It was harder probably in the other one we were talking about, 13:56 methysergide. 13:58 But, we can think of other ones where it would be 14:01 much more difficult to see. 14:03 Would it be all right to name one other? Yes it would. 14:06 Diethylstilbestrol... Oh yes! 14:10 I remember first hearing about this in a medical lecture, 14:14 and being so stunned by what was going on. 14:19 A pregnant woman who was given this drug... 14:23 since it is a female hormone, 14:27 perhaps it was thought this wouldn't be such a 14:29 drastic thing to use. 14:30 Doctors are very careful and try to avoid the use of 14:33 drugs during pregnancy. 14:34 Well, it was used and with no apparent problem... 14:39 until many years later... it must have been at least 15, 14:43 if not 20 years later, that they began to notice 14:46 an increase... In fact, my impression was that it was 14:49 basically a cancer that had not been seen before this 14:53 NOT in the woman that took the drug but in the baby girl, 14:58 the fetus that she had been carrying at the time 15:00 that she took this. 15:01 A cancer of the genital organs, which of course, 15:04 could be fatal. 15:06 An adenocarcinoma of the vagina which is EXTREMELY rare... 15:12 In fact, I had never seen one until we started seeing them 15:15 as a result of this drug. 15:17 You know, I'm actually surprised that they found 15:20 the connection... 15:22 It's so many years before because this did not show up 15:25 in the young girls until they reached puberty at least. 15:29 And so the mother, or at least her doctors, 15:33 must have had a record remembered, 15:36 or been in her medical records and they were able 15:38 to track it down that this, in fact, was what was 15:40 responsible for causing this problem. 15:42 Now, of course, cancer and death are rather big events 15:50 in order for a person to start hunting and looking 15:53 But what if it had been a more subtle effect. 15:55 Not so much as to cause a severe retardation 16:02 in brain function but some mild retardation... 16:07 Or some other effect on the immune system. 16:09 Or some aberration of the functioning of the brain 16:11 like autism... you mean, something like that.. 16:14 THAT KIND OF THING! 16:15 I'm not sure that people would even try to find out 16:19 about the mother taking a drug back during the time 16:22 that she was carrying the child. 16:23 Yes... you wouldn't think to do that. 16:26 You would think that the mother would suffer the problem 16:28 and not to her offspring... Exactly. 16:30 Even the boys born to these mothers who took the 16:34 drug, were more likely to have infertility and other problems. 16:39 So... it is a very serious thing... It really is. 16:43 Well thank you very much. 16:44 I appreciate this discussion of a very difficult topic 16:48 because we are... all of us who have been trained 16:50 as MDs, are so careful about medicines... 16:54 and yet there's hardly a way that we can be careful enough. 16:58 Which brings us to the point of thinking that 17:01 if there is a way to treat a person without using 17:05 a medication, or a way to treat a person without using surgery, 17:09 then, of course, we would certainly want to do that. 17:11 We'd want to look for that remedy that would make it 17:15 so that we could avoid the use of some kind of drug. 17:19 Now I have also with me, Don Miller, 17:22 and Don Miller is going to talk with you about an important 17:25 issue having to do with this whole subject of 17:28 alternative medicine, and I'm looking forward 17:29 to hearing what you say. 17:31 You know, Dr. Thrash, after talking with Dr. Horsley, 17:33 I want to go back and look at my mother's medical records. 17:35 These types of things really start to make you be concerned. 17:39 And, I want to mention just one thing, Dr. Thrash... 17:42 We're finding out now that all these drugs that we're taking 17:46 most of which go through the body quite quickly, 17:48 are now starting to accumulate in the ecosphere. 17:52 And they're going to have a real profound effect. 17:55 Now what's happening with all the drugs... 17:56 We have the diuretic drugs. 17:59 We've got the anti-inflammatory drugs. 18:02 We've got the pain drugs. 18:03 We've got all these drugs... 18:04 being flushed down the toilet and going out into the water 18:07 where the food chain is living for some people 18:11 It's not my food chain but some people are eating 18:13 that food chain and we're going to get some biomagnifications 18:16 because of the flow out into their ecosystem... 18:21 and we're going to see some problems there. 18:23 Now with all that that's been said about drugs and 18:26 medicines, I will say this... that medicines are good. 18:29 If it were not so, it would not be mentioned in 18:32 Proverbs 17:22 that a merry heart does good like a medicine. 18:37 Now there's some real proof there that they've been 18:40 finding out scientifically that a merry heart... 18:42 that's caused by being happy is good like a medicine. 18:46 And going back to the very word "drug," 18:49 we sit there and say, "Oh drug, that's a bad thing" 18:51 and we're not going to talk about drugs... 18:54 And there's good reason to say that because, basically, 18:56 33% at LEAST of diseases are caused by drugs or 19:01 iatrogenic sources... the drugs, the treatment... whatever. 19:05 And so we have to be careful from the drugs. 19:07 And as a matter of fact, there's more people 19:09 dying of prescription drugs, than there are 19:11 from illegal drugs. 19:13 So "drug" has gotten a bad name. 19:15 But where does the word "drug" come from? 19:17 Quite simply... it's from the Dutch word "droog" 19:20 which means dried plant. 19:22 I want my drugs coming, as Melissa showed us, 19:26 from the dried plants. 19:28 I was in the St. Louis Zoo some time ago... 19:30 As a matter of fact, with Melissa and my daughter, 19:32 and my granddaughter... it was a quite nice day we spent there... 19:35 And there was one particular part of the zoo we went into 19:38 and there was a big display about the tropical rainforest. 19:42 And there was a statement... if I get it correctly, 19:45 it said something like, "Two-thirds of all medication 19:49 found their origin from the plants growing in the 19:53 tropical rainforest. " 19:54 And, I want to get my drugs at that level, rather than 19:58 the synthesized level that we're getting it in now. 20:02 There are about 275 thousand different plants 20:05 in the world today. 20:06 And, in those things, you've got hundreds, to thousands, to even 20:09 millions of chemical combinations 20:11 And we start messing with those things, we have problems. 20:14 I guess it was back at about 1803, that the first doctor 20:18 sat down and he separated out of a plant... an alkaloid. 20:22 The plant was opium and the alkaloid is something 20:26 that we've used quite a lot since then... 20:29 But they've starting taking the plants and finding the 20:32 alkaloids or the different constituent in there 20:36 that might have an effect upon the body... 20:38 They somehow make that themselves. 20:40 One very common one is the salicylate family. 20:44 We go to the store and we buy a bottle of salicylates 20:47 or aspirin and we take those things and we realize that 20:50 these things have lots of adverse side effects. 20:53 But where did the salicylate come from? 20:56 Well, they would watch the old folks and the Indians and 21:01 people who were the old, you know, the rubes 21:03 out there on the farms... 21:05 That they, for years and years and for centuries would 21:08 use a product, not really a product, 21:11 but basically is a product... 21:12 the inside of the bark of the white willow tree 21:15 and they found that to be a pain reliever. 21:18 They found out that it was the salicylate in there 21:20 and they started using that as a drug. 21:23 I have used the white willow bark, 21:25 and it works just as well for me without all of the 21:28 negative side effects. 21:29 My stepfather was one of those and there are many 21:33 people like this... who was EXTREMELY sensitive to aspirin. 21:37 As a matter of fact, 1 grain could have killed him 21:39 And so, he had to be very, very careful about 21:43 those types of things 21:44 And as Dr. Horsley has already mentioned, and Dr. Thrash 21:47 has been talking about... 21:48 We don't know the effect that these drugs are going to have 21:52 in our body down the line. 21:54 Eli Lilly, basically the beginner of the 21:57 Eli Lilly Drug Company... 21:58 He once said something quite interesting which I agree with 22:01 100%... He said, "If it does not have a side effect, 22:05 it's not a drug. " 22:06 And so, I have not found too many side effects of herbs 22:10 As a matter of fact... oh yes, we've already mentioned 22:12 goldenseal and, Dr. Thrash, it has a side effect... 22:16 it makes my face scrunch up! Oh, that's nasty-tasting stuff! 22:19 But that's not a problem! 22:21 You know, those things aren't BAD side effects. 22:24 Now, Sir William Osler said something else and I think 22:28 this is one of the most important things I try 22:30 to teach the people where I go... 22:32 And basically, he said that it's more important 22:37 to know the patient, than it is to know the disease. 22:41 We spend all of our time looking at a disease 22:44 and we don't spend much time looking at the patient. 22:47 Let's talk with the patient. 22:48 I'll tell people where I'm teaching... wherever it might be 22:51 I say... "The best diagnostic tool that we have is a good 22:55 foundational history. " 22:57 Talk to the person. Spend time with the person. 23:00 Trouble is in today's world, we don't have that much time 23:02 to spend with our patients. 23:04 And so we run them through and give them a prescription 23:06 for a drug which... who knows what effect it will 23:08 have down the line. 23:09 And so, we need to get good herbal books and find out 23:12 what can we do NATURALLY. 23:14 Now, herbs are getting a lot of bad press and 23:17 rightly so for this reason... 23:19 If you take an herb which is effective, 23:22 with a drug which is effective in its sphere, 23:26 both of those together, gives you a double whammy. 23:28 Let's say someone taking an antidepressant and then they 23:34 also take St. John's Wort... 23:36 Well that's two at one time and that's not good. 23:40 And so, we're hearing in the press, "You shouldn't take 23:42 St. John's Wort because it's bad. 23:44 Well, the problem is taking BOTH of them is bad 23:47 I would say, let's try the St. John's Wort 23:49 And there's many other drugs that 23:51 fall into this category. 23:52 So we need to sort of narrow it down 23:54 and not start building it. 23:55 And I will say even this... 23:56 it's not good to make many, many many herb combinations 24:01 because we don't know how they react. 24:03 Every herb has its own chemicals that are going to intermix 24:06 And so we usually like to sort of draw the line 24:08 at 6 or 7 different herbs in a concoction or a decoction 24:13 and not go into these 70 and 80 different herbal combinations 24:17 because, again, we don't know 24:19 how they're going to react with each other. 24:20 So we need to be wise and we need to take some of that 24:24 "merry heart" that does good like a medicine... Dr. Thrash. 24:27 Yes that does. 24:28 I'm glad you mentioned about herbs... 24:31 It is important that we learn about herbs and not all herbs 24:35 are safe, such as... 24:38 ginseng, lobelia and pennyroyal and some others 24:42 So generally, if you don't know what the properties are, 24:46 of an herb, then it might be well if you studied that 24:49 before you take it. 24:51 Now I've asked Dr. Horsley to talk with you again about 24:55 some other issues that are involved in this matter of 25:00 alternative medicine. 25:02 And so, Dr. Horsley, what other thing do you have 25:05 that you can share with us. 25:07 Well, briefly, perhaps we should just say what alternative... 25:12 In fact, let's use the word "rational" treatment should 25:16 begin with. 25:17 But not with herbs? I don't think so. 25:20 I agree with you. 25:22 We really should begin with 25:24 what is the foundation of good health... 25:27 And I think everyone from their mother has heard... 25:31 ...you know, as one has said many times, 25:34 "Eat your vegetables. " "Eat the right foods. " 25:37 And other components that everyone knows 25:39 have to do with good health. 25:41 Drinking enough water. Getting your exercise. 25:44 Those habits are the first step toward good health. 25:50 It's been summarized in the word "NEWSTART" 25:55 Nutrition, exercise, water, temperance, and so on. 26:00 If we need to do more than that... 26:03 and often people don't realize how just maximizing 26:06 those aspects of good health will relieve many 26:10 of their symptoms... Yes. 26:12 Often people don't realize just what is the best nutrition. 26:17 And so, doing that will OFTEN HELP or even CURE 26:21 the problem. 26:22 If we need to go further, the next step down 26:25 then would be use of herbs. 26:27 And one could also add in some other treatments 26:31 at this next step down such as massage... 26:35 And all sorts of water treatments... water and steam 26:38 and ice... Hydrotherapy as it's called. 26:41 Use of heat with water to apply it is excellent. 26:49 Then, if we want to go a further step below... 26:53 I would say that "extracts" of herbs, or for that matter, 26:57 extracts of foods... 26:59 And I feel even less comfortable about extracting 27:03 trace quantities... than taking something that's the major 27:07 component of food... For instance, vitamins. 27:09 Yes, you can easily get a MAJOR overdose with one little pill. 27:15 And it's very easy to swallow it. 27:17 Thank you very much. 27:19 We certainly see that this is a BIG subject not possible 27:26 for us to cover in one small discussion of it. 27:31 But, let me read something to you 27:33 that I think will be very helpful to you. 27:36 "To secure a strong, well-balanced character, 27:38 both the mental and the physical powers must be exercised 27:42 and developed. 27:43 What study can be more important than that which treats 27:47 of this wonderful organism which God has committed to us 27:51 ...His own equipment. " Thank you. |
Revised 2014-12-17