Welcome to
Heaven's Point of View.
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My name is J.D. Quinn
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I'm co-hosting today
with Dr. Tom Sheperd.
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Our topic, our
series is Love, Marriage,
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Sex and Divorce
according to the New Testament.
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Dr. Sheperd, he specializes
in New Testament interpretation
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so this is good stuff and so,
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I think that where we
left off last time Dr. Sheperd
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was that we were dealing
with sex outside of marriage,
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now we're going to be dealing
with sex inside of marriage,
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Yes, and the passage
that we're going to look at is
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in the book of 1st
Corinthians chapter 7
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some people might think
that, "Well sex is so powerful
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that... maybe it's too powerful,
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maybe the risks
are just too high,
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maybe because we're
living in the last days,
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even married
people shouldn't have sex,
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isn't it connected with passions
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that are inconsistent
with Christian holiness,
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these could be some
of the kinds of questions
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that people in
Corinth were thinking about
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and that they
wrote to Paul about
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so, let's turn
to 1st Corinthians 7
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and read verses 1 through 7,
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1st Corinthians
chapter 7 verses 1 to 7.
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Good and I'm going to be reading
from the New King James Version,
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"Now concerning the
things of which you wrote to me:
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It is good for a man
not to touch a woman.
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Nevertheless,
because of sexual immorality,
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let each man have his own wife,
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and let each woman
have her own husband.
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Let the husband render to
his wife the affection due her,
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and likewise also
the wife to her husband.
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The wife does not have
authority over her own body,
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but the husband does.
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And likewise the
husband does not have authority
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over his own body,
but the wife does. "
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Do not deprive one another
except with consent for a time,
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that you may give yourselves
to fasting and prayer;
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and come together again so
that Satan does not tempt you
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because of your
lack of self-control.
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But I say this as a concession,
not as a commandment.
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For I wish that all
men were even as I myself.
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But each one has
his own gift from God,
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one in this manner
and another in that. "
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All right, Paul
starts off here by saying,
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"Now concerning the
matters about which you wrote"
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and so, it's obvious
that the people in Corinth...
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or some of the believers
had written a letter to Paul
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with a variety of
questions, now unfortunately,
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we don't have
that letter anymore,
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all we have is what Paul wrote
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and so it's like listening to
half of a telephone conversation
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and trying to figure out exactly
what the conversation was about,
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and we've already seen that
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there are some
kinds of issues here
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sometimes of deciding what...
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is Paul talking or the
people in Corinth talking?
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So, that... we try to
wind our way through that
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and scholars
think that carefully
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and argue back and
forth about what they find so
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that's what we going
to try and look at here,
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to give some sort
of background for this,
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I want to give a
sort of a rundown
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on how the people in
Paul's day thought of marriage,
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how they thought of the
family and things like that.
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The Greeks had an
axiom, now, you know,
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an axiom is something you
have... when you study math
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and you're trying to
figure out different things,
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you have this axiom,
it's like a principle,
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that you're going to
use, so their axiom was
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marriage involved a man
and weighty responsibilities,
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that's a pretty
good axiom actually,
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you kind of wish more
people thought about that today
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but the Greeks
thought, you know,
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he's going to be a father,
a householder, a citizen,
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he's going to have an active
social life, a political life,
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an economical life
so when you get married,
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you've become a man,
you've heard of this...
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this is really...
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It's a big step.
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It's a big step, yeah,
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now, there were different
philosophical traditions
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that looked at
marriage in different ways,
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one was called "Stoicism,"
we still, even today,
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we speak of kind of...
"he is stoical," you know
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the "Stoics" were a
group that was started
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hundreds of years before
Jesus, by a man named Zeno
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and for them, they...
virtue was the highest good
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and they based their life on...
this was based on knowledge
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and you would live in harmony
with divine reason or fate,
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and you were supposed to be
indifferent to pain or pleasure,
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that's where we get
the concept of "Stoical. "
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Well basically, they just
went forward, not complaining,
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"This is the way it
is... and this is...
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and so live our
life accordingly. "
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There's a story that I've heard
of somebody who grabbed a Stoic
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and put his arm
behind his back, you know,
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because they're supposed
to reject pain, you know,
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and the guy was saying,
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he wanted him to
recognize the pain,
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he said, "If you push
too hard, it will break"
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and the guy kept
pushing and his arm broke
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and he said, "I told
you it would break. "
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Oh my goodness...
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Yeah, so they viewed marriage,
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the Stoics viewed
marriage positively
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it contributed to the welfare
and stability of Society,
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on the other hand
there were the Cynics,
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and this was another
philosophical school,
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they also believed
in life based on virtue
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but rigor and "reject
desires" was important to them
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they lived a simple
life without possessions.
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So, they believed
in strong individualism
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and that marriage and the
household, the city-state,
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all had their
origin in human convention
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and so they denied
the importance of these,
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they accepted the
Greek axiom that I mentioned
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but they denied the
importance of the city-state,
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so Paul's
statements in 1st Corinthians 7
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come across to
some of us as we read it
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as rather negative on marriage,
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rather negative on sex and
people kind of get this feeling
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but he has "if" and "but"
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and concessions
and things like that,
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but actually if we see
the this... what he says...
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in the light of the
debate that was going on
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between the
Stoics and the Cynics,
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those debates among them
had the same kind of pattern
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of appeared ambivalence or
qualified, positive attitudes
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that was
something that was going on
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in the Hellenistic world so
we ought not to judge Paul's
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words too quickly... without
recognizing the background
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type of context.
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Which I guess
would lead us to think,
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"What did the Romans think,
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well, how did they look at the
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expressions of
love and marriage?"
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Yeah, all right, so
we want to think about
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their structure of
the family and the home.
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The Roman system of
marriage and the home,
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was patriarchal in structure,
the Roman family had...
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the oldest male was
called the "Pater familias"
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and he was very
powerful in the family,
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his power over the
family was extensive,
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it was... and they had a name,
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they called it,
"Patria Potestas"
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and this Potestas... this
Patria Potestas did not end
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when his children grew up
nor even when they left home.
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So... he was...
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The Patriarch was the Patriarch
for as long as he lived
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and then, if he passes away,
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then I'm
assuming the eldest son...
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The eldest son and
other... will take on power.
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And so this was a legal concept
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which gave the
head of the family
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almost omnipotent position,
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almost omnipotent
power over the family,
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he controlled finances,
he controlled children,
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even when they were grown,
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they couldn't do
financial transactions
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without his approval,
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they couldn't get
married without his approval,
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so, how do you suppose
young men dealt with this issue?
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Well, they would move
farther away from Dad.
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Go someplace... he's
over the mountains, you know,
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he's still the Pater familias,
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sure, he's still
got the Patria Potestas
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but, you know,
he's far away and so...
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Now, do we assume that they
had lots of children back then?
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Yeah, that would probably be
common to have lots of children.
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So, it's like, they
probably need workers
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and several like
that in the family.
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Yeah, a large family would be...
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And so, there are
certainly going to be those that
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there were disagreements
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and so they would even
move farther and farther away,
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they wanted their independence.
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Yeah, and I imagined that
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quite a few people lived
closer to home and so forth,
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but the other thing to
remember is that life expectancy
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was not what it is
today, and so, most men,
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if they've judged
over the age of 30,
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probably didn't
have a living father,
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so, if you got
to 30 years of age,
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you were more... on your own.
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So, that was kind of
some of the experience there,
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now, the role of women
in this kind of a situation,
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as you can probably
imagine was not very easy,
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they were subordinate,
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interestingly in this System,
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they were not subordinate
to their own husbands,
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they were subordinate
to the Pater familias
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and so, there
would be a linkage there,
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of course, if you moved
away, if your father had died,
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then, there'd be some
other kinds of issues,
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there is actually an
interesting situation where
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when the Pater familias,
a lady's father just died,
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she would become,
they call it, "Sui juris"
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she would be on her own right
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and she could undertake
financial transactions,
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she could be pretty
much financially independent,
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and, in fact, some
women, controlled large fortunes
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and it's
interesting when we read...
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when we think of that idea,
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and we compare it
with the stories of Jesus,
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because if you read,
particularly the gospel of Luke,
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you find that
there are certain women
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that would travel with
Jesus' group of disciples,
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but also, who supported Jesus
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and his
disciples from their wealth
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and so, I mean,
Jesus had to live somehow,
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He had to be able to...
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they had to have
some food, somehow,
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and so, there were, probably
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some of these wealthy women,
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were involved with
supporting the mission of Jesus
00:11:05.23\00:11:08.63
and his disciples...
by linking others...
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so, when you learn some
of the background information
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it just kind of
throws a little more light
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on the sacred page and
helps you to see things
00:11:17.34\00:11:19.97
in a little
different... you know,
00:11:20.01\00:11:22.28
a little better light.
00:11:22.31\00:11:23.91
The Stoic by the
name of Musonius,
00:11:23.95\00:11:27.95
argued that
sexual and erotic desire
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could be
justified within marriage,
00:11:31.99\00:11:35.39
only for the purpose
of begetting children.
00:11:35.42\00:11:37.83
So, this was kind of an idea
of sex is only... in marriage...
00:11:37.86\00:11:42.56
is only for having children.
Mr. Quinn: No pleasure.
00:11:42.60\00:11:46.33
Yeah, the...
Ovid, the Latin poet,
00:11:46.37\00:11:49.14
believed that
there... this is interesting,
00:11:49.20\00:11:51.44
he believed there
could be no erotic pleasure
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between husband and wife
00:11:53.74\00:11:55.08
because it was a
relationship of duty,
00:11:55.11\00:11:58.61
so, these people would
have sex outside of marriage,
00:11:58.65\00:12:03.49
they would have
prostitutes, or they'd go to...
00:12:03.52\00:12:07.82
they would have a... someone
else that they would go to,
00:12:07.89\00:12:12.16
they have slaves
they might sleep with,
00:12:12.19\00:12:13.93
but, for the wife,
00:12:13.96\00:12:15.76
the big principle
for the wife was...
00:12:15.80\00:12:18.13
she was the bearer
of legitimate children
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that would be his heirs,
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so their whole view
of sex and of its use
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and of the role of the
family and sex within marriage
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was quite different from
what we read in Scripture,
00:12:30.51\00:12:34.38
what we read from Paul.
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Paul, interestingly, in
this whole passage here,
00:12:35.78\00:12:39.15
he does not
mention procreation at all
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when he talks
about sex, all right, so,
00:12:42.22\00:12:45.06
he talks about
people participating
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in sexual relations,
00:12:47.96\00:12:49.30
but he doesn't describe
it in terms of procreation.
00:12:49.33\00:12:52.87
So, that's a contrast
from some of these other people
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and what they were saying,
"it's only for having children,"
00:12:56.40\00:12:58.54
now, Paul is not, of course,
opposed to having children
00:12:58.57\00:13:02.11
or anything like that
but he doesn't focus on that,
00:13:02.14\00:13:05.65
so, it's
interesting that he says
00:13:05.68\00:13:08.52
that you should have
sexual relations in marriage
00:13:08.55\00:13:11.15
and we'll have
more to say about that
00:13:11.19\00:13:13.89
as we go on into
looking at this passage,
00:13:13.92\00:13:16.56
but, the whole idea that
sex was only for procreation,
00:13:16.59\00:13:20.43
no, and... there's also
an interesting thing that
00:13:20.46\00:13:23.70
what we've already
studied about 1st Corinthians 6,
00:13:23.73\00:13:26.70
and what we studied about
here in 1st Corinthians 7,
00:13:26.74\00:13:29.67
is in sharp
contrast, one to the other,
00:13:29.70\00:13:33.14
and so we'll
unpack that some more.
00:13:33.17\00:13:36.51
One seems like it's more from
a "strictly pleasure seeking"
00:13:36.54\00:13:42.12
to "mutuality
between husband and wife. "
00:13:42.15\00:13:46.65
Right, the way Paul
describes it in chapter 6,
00:13:46.69\00:13:50.13
you have more of that
00:13:50.16\00:13:51.49
pleasure-seeking kind of
libertine, anything goes,
00:13:51.53\00:13:54.80
actually, in
chapter 7, as we will see,
00:13:54.86\00:13:57.73
there seem to be
people who were Ascetics,
00:13:57.77\00:14:00.34
that is, people
who lived in a very...
00:14:00.37\00:14:02.84
they believed in a
very tough, harsh lifestyle
00:14:02.90\00:14:05.64
and maybe to the
point where there would say,
00:14:05.67\00:14:09.04
"You know, you
shouldn't even have sex at all
00:14:09.08\00:14:12.18
even if you're
married," because, like we said,
00:14:12.21\00:14:15.25
"it's just too
dangerous, too powerful
00:14:15.28\00:14:17.35
and you should stay away from it
00:14:17.39\00:14:18.72
and after all, we're
living in the last days,"
00:14:18.75\00:14:20.16
kind of an idea.
00:14:20.19\00:14:21.52
And so, obviously
that would bring up
00:14:21.56\00:14:23.12
maybe there was some...
00:14:23.16\00:14:24.49
in their thinking there
was some distress signals
00:14:24.53\00:14:27.13
or something like
that, that they...
00:14:27.16\00:14:28.56
Yeah, and Paul refers to that,
if we read in the same chapter
00:14:28.60\00:14:32.83
just read verse 26,
00:14:32.87\00:14:34.20
1st Corinthians
chapter 7 verse 26,
00:14:34.24\00:14:37.14
Verse 26, okay,
00:14:37.17\00:14:42.01
"But this I say, brethren,
00:14:42.04\00:14:43.55
the time is short:
so that from now on
00:14:43.58\00:14:46.68
even those who have wives
00:14:46.72\00:14:48.08
should be as
though they had none. "
00:14:48.12\00:14:49.78
Interesting, okay.
00:14:49.82\00:14:51.15
That was verse 29...
Oh, that was verse 29...
00:14:51.19\00:14:53.86
Yeah, "I suppose, therefore,
00:14:53.89\00:14:55.22
that this is good
because of the present distress
00:14:55.26\00:14:58.19
that it is good for a
man to remain as he is. "
00:14:58.23\00:15:01.43
You know, it's interesting that
you had read verse 29 as well
00:15:01.46\00:15:04.37
because verse 29 has kind
of a eschatological feel to it,
00:15:04.40\00:15:07.30
but verse 26 talks
about the present distress
00:15:07.34\00:15:10.94
and people wonder,
00:15:10.97\00:15:12.34
so, what is this
present distress, anyway?
00:15:12.37\00:15:16.41
Well, we have some
historical evidence
00:15:16.44\00:15:20.48
that during the reign
of Claudius the Emperor,
00:15:20.52\00:15:23.92
he was the
Emperor from 41 to 54 AD
00:15:23.95\00:15:27.42
that there were
various famines in Greece,
00:15:27.46\00:15:30.36
you know, of course,
Corinth is in Greece,
00:15:30.39\00:15:32.73
and so Paul is writing to them.
00:15:32.76\00:15:34.76
One of the famines can
actually be dated to 51 AD,
00:15:34.80\00:15:39.30
and it's alluded to by
one of the Roman historians
00:15:39.33\00:15:43.81
they were food
shortages and these would have
00:15:43.84\00:15:47.24
a serious effect
on the population,
00:15:47.28\00:15:49.24
you know, you could kind of
make a parallel for us today
00:15:49.31\00:15:53.35
with the great recession
in the United States in 2008,
00:15:53.38\00:15:57.39
and it became very
difficult for people,
00:15:57.42\00:16:01.62
we know that young
people were having difficulty
00:16:01.66\00:16:04.56
in getting on their own,
living with their parents still,
00:16:04.59\00:16:08.16
and so, getting married
becomes more challenging
00:16:08.50\00:16:11.83
and if there was
a famine going on,
00:16:11.90\00:16:13.94
Paul's reticence
about them getting married,
00:16:13.97\00:16:17.41
may be related to this issue of
present distress going on now.
00:16:17.44\00:16:23.28
So it could be a valid point.
00:16:23.31\00:16:24.95
Yeah, oh yeah, oh sure,
00:16:24.98\00:16:27.08
that he wants to keep
them from trouble and so forth,
00:16:27.12\00:16:31.72
it could also be eschatological
linkages that you've mentioned
00:16:31.75\00:16:34.89
that were down in
verse... down in verse 29.
00:16:34.92\00:16:38.13
"Troubled times ahead,"
Yes, yeah... right... yeah...
00:16:38.16\00:16:42.13
Well, now, let's look at,
this is really interesting to me
00:16:42.16\00:16:49.50
in chapter 7 verse 1, okay,
00:16:49.54\00:16:54.44
"It is good for a man
not to touch a woman. "
00:16:54.48\00:16:58.08
Right...
00:16:58.11\00:16:59.58
Let's kind
of... Get into that...
00:16:59.61\00:17:01.42
Yeah, because that's
kind of a different direction.
00:17:01.45\00:17:05.05
There are two
different questions
00:17:05.09\00:17:06.72
that we have to answer
when we look at this question
00:17:06.76\00:17:09.32
and that is, first, is Paul...
00:17:09.36\00:17:12.69
Are these Paul's words?
00:17:12.73\00:17:15.63
We've seen before that
sometimes Paul will quote
00:17:15.66\00:17:19.03
from slogans of the Corinthians,
00:17:19.07\00:17:22.60
here he has actually
mentioned... a letter
00:17:22.64\00:17:25.81
and so the
question is, when it says,
00:17:25.84\00:17:28.88
"It is good for a man
not to touch a woman,"
00:17:28.91\00:17:32.55
are those his words
or the Corinthian words?
00:17:32.58\00:17:36.18
Then the other question is,
00:17:36.22\00:17:37.62
what does he mean
by "touch a woman"
00:17:37.65\00:17:40.79
it's a euphemism and a
lot of people think that
00:17:40.82\00:17:45.86
what Paul is talking
about is sexual relations,
00:17:45.89\00:17:49.40
it's just a euphemism
for sexual relations...
00:17:49.46\00:17:52.93
In other words, it
is good for a woman
00:17:52.97\00:17:56.97
not to have sexual relations?
00:17:57.01\00:17:58.41
Yeah, it is good for a man
00:17:58.44\00:17:59.77
not to have sexual
relations with a woman,
00:17:59.81\00:18:01.74
see, in fact,
when I read the ESV,
00:18:01.78\00:18:04.48
chapter 7 verse
1 reads like this,
00:18:04.51\00:18:07.18
"Now concerning the
matters about which you wrote,"
00:18:07.22\00:18:08.85
and then they put it in quotes,
00:18:08.88\00:18:10.39
that they interpreted it
as something that they wrote
00:18:10.42\00:18:13.22
in the letter, the
Corinthians wrote it,
00:18:13.25\00:18:14.76
"It is good for
a man not to have
00:18:14.82\00:18:16.22
sexual relations with a woman"
00:18:16.26\00:18:17.63
they're interpreting
the word, "touch" there
00:18:17.66\00:18:20.10
to mean "sexual relations,"
00:18:20.13\00:18:22.70
just the general kind of
concept for sexual relations,
00:18:22.73\00:18:26.57
well, interestingly there...
just not so long ago, 2009,
00:18:26.60\00:18:30.41
Roy Ciampa, a
Scholar, wrote an article
00:18:30.44\00:18:34.64
dealing with this question
00:18:34.68\00:18:36.91
and he reviewed a lot
of ancient literature,
00:18:36.95\00:18:39.95
that makes use of this
euphemism of "touching a woman"
00:18:40.02\00:18:45.19
and he found that
the euphemism was used
00:18:45.22\00:18:49.96
actually to describe a
variety of sexual encounters,
00:18:49.99\00:18:54.76
so, if I quote from his
article, it goes like this,
00:18:54.80\00:18:59.07
"... using people for
one's own sexual gratification
00:18:59.13\00:19:03.37
such as slaves,
defenseless women,
00:19:03.41\00:19:05.87
a virgin in a man's
care, a wife during her menses,
00:19:05.91\00:19:09.51
a pederast's lover,
00:19:09.54\00:19:10.88
other 'unnatural'
homosexual relations,
00:19:10.91\00:19:13.52
incest, rape or adultery... "
00:19:13.55\00:19:15.62
this is along the lines of
what he put in his articles,
00:19:15.68\00:19:23.22
not a direct
quote, I don't think here,
00:19:23.26\00:19:25.09
there were other
terms and euphemisms
00:19:25.13\00:19:26.93
used in the Greco-Roman world
to describe sexual relations,
00:19:26.96\00:19:30.10
but interestingly,
this idea of "touching,"
00:19:30.13\00:19:33.10
was not used of
sexual relations, in general,
00:19:33.13\00:19:36.94
but, for that based
on pleasure or passion
00:19:36.97\00:19:40.71
not appropriation or
friendship, the term was used,
00:19:40.74\00:19:43.41
when the writer wanted to
disapprove of what was going on,
00:19:43.45\00:19:48.08
so, this
terminology, "touch a woman"
00:19:48.12\00:19:50.99
or "touch your object of
desire" was something that...
00:19:51.02\00:19:55.26
was a common kind of
idiom that they would use
00:19:55.29\00:20:00.53
to refer to sex
for this kind of...
00:20:00.56\00:20:04.37
well, you could say,
"not just sex for pleasure"
00:20:04.40\00:20:07.24
but it wasn't for procreation
00:20:07.30\00:20:09.64
and it was actually
for self-gratification.
00:20:09.70\00:20:13.07
Self-gratification... Yeah...
00:20:13.11\00:20:14.84
"So, it was one of those things
00:20:14.88\00:20:16.54
that I really
don't want to talk about,
00:20:16.58\00:20:18.18
so I'm just going to
throw a term out there for...
00:20:18.21\00:20:21.52
in general... rather
than being specific. "
00:20:21.58\00:20:24.75
Yeah, but you see, they had...
00:20:24.82\00:20:26.32
they had another
term that they would use
00:20:26.35\00:20:28.12
for sexual relations,
00:20:28.16\00:20:29.49
illicit sexual
relations, in general,
00:20:29.52\00:20:32.19
it was the word, "porneia"
00:20:32.23\00:20:34.20
which we get the
word "pornography" from
00:20:34.23\00:20:36.60
this term, "porneia," could
be used in a variety of ways,
00:20:36.63\00:20:41.47
but this idea... this
euphemism of "touching a woman,"
00:20:41.50\00:20:45.47
was... or... or
"touching a man,"
00:20:45.51\00:20:48.84
was... it had a
certain connotation to it,
00:20:48.91\00:20:52.08
let me read what...
this is from his article now,
00:20:52.11\00:20:55.48
his conclusion on
page 336 in this article,
00:20:55.52\00:20:59.19
he says, "The fuller examination
of the sexual euphemism
00:20:59.22\00:21:02.59
of touching,
suggests that the statement,
00:21:02.62\00:21:05.93
'it is good for a
man not to touch a woman'
00:21:05.96\00:21:08.46
should not be taken as
rejection of sex in general,
00:21:08.50\00:21:11.97
but more likely reflects
a rejection of recreational
00:21:12.00\00:21:16.67
or hedonistic
sex, sex for pleasure,
00:21:16.71\00:21:20.08
or motivated by passion,
00:21:20.11\00:21:22.08
the idiom might
be best translated as
00:21:22.11\00:21:24.85
'it is good for a man
00:21:24.91\00:21:26.51
not to use a woman for
sexual gratification. '"
00:21:26.55\00:21:30.55
"The line quoted from
1st Corinthians in 7 verse 1,
00:21:30.59\00:21:35.16
may be taken as a criticism
by some Corinthian Christians
00:21:35.19\00:21:41.43
against certain
men in the church
00:21:41.46\00:21:44.37
who continued to look
for sexual gratification
00:21:44.40\00:21:46.84
as they did before
converting to Christianity:
00:21:46.87\00:21:49.40
with prostitutes, courtesans
00:21:49.44\00:21:52.04
and household
slaves, among other people.
00:21:52.07\00:21:53.78
If this touching
would come close to being
00:21:53.81\00:21:58.58
a Hellenistic equivalent
for Jewish and Christian use
00:21:58.61\00:22:02.22
of porneia, the word
for sexual immorality,
00:22:02.25\00:22:06.05
although the
former term, the touching,
00:22:06.09\00:22:09.82
could be applied
broadly even to sex for pleasure
00:22:09.86\00:22:12.39
or out of passion
even within marriage,
00:22:12.43\00:22:14.60
in a way that the latter
term, porneia, might not.
00:22:14.63\00:22:18.73
Also, while men and women
may both practice porneia,
00:22:18.77\00:22:22.80
'touching' is
something that only men do.
00:22:22.84\00:22:26.47
It is remarkable that
while touching is unidirectional
00:22:26.54\00:22:30.98
people do not touch each other,
00:22:31.01\00:22:33.21
one male touches the
object of his sexual desire,
00:22:33.25\00:22:36.79
the rest of Paul's
language, in contrast,
00:22:36.82\00:22:39.49
clearly emphasizes mutuality
in marital relations. "
00:22:39.52\00:22:45.13
Right, so this is
related to... today...
00:22:45.16\00:22:48.36
to our world today,
or what we would say,
00:22:48.40\00:22:51.53
"it's through
using somebody else
00:22:51.57\00:22:53.74
as a sexual object,"
00:22:53.80\00:22:55.14
and this is
everywhere in our Society,
00:22:55.17\00:22:59.17
I mean, the biggest
example of it is pornography.
00:22:59.21\00:23:01.84
Yeah.
00:23:01.91\00:23:03.24
Where looking at that
is just a means to an end,
00:23:03.28\00:23:07.92
is all focused within self,
00:23:07.95\00:23:09.75
and it's not about
the other person at all,
00:23:09.78\00:23:13.32
it's all about
"me," or all about that...
00:23:13.36\00:23:16.86
Which has grave consequences.
00:23:16.89\00:23:18.86
It does, it changes,
actually, the way you think
00:23:18.89\00:23:22.26
of...
00:23:22.30\00:23:23.80
of that other person,
00:23:23.87\00:23:25.23
and of course,
pornography tends to be a...
00:23:25.27\00:23:26.74
a major problem more for
men, I think, than for women,
00:23:26.77\00:23:29.80
and so, men then tend to think
of women as sexual objects.
00:23:29.84\00:23:34.34
The Advertising does this...
00:23:34.38\00:23:37.55
It seems like, in some of
the surveys that I've seen,
00:23:37.58\00:23:41.58
is that, there
is... it's not reversing
00:23:41.65\00:23:44.85
but women are getting
caught up into this... also.
00:23:44.89\00:23:48.16
They may be... Yeah...
00:23:48.19\00:23:49.52
But that's not what
we're talking about here.
00:23:49.56\00:23:51.96
Treating of another person
as simply... as a sexual object
00:23:51.99\00:23:56.43
so, Ciampa goes on
to give a paraphrase
00:23:56.46\00:24:00.24
of these two
verses and it's kind of...
00:24:00.27\00:24:03.10
it's kind of useful to have
this paraphrase in front of us
00:24:03.14\00:24:07.48
because it helps to fill
out some of the background
00:24:07.51\00:24:09.74
so, with all the background
we've been talking about...
00:24:09.78\00:24:11.95
about what the Greeks
thought about the home,
00:24:11.98\00:24:14.38
about how they treated women,
00:24:14.42\00:24:16.22
about how they
thought of sexuality,
00:24:16.25\00:24:18.89
Paul's words start to
00:24:18.92\00:24:21.16
carry a little
different understanding for us,
00:24:21.19\00:24:24.33
as we try to piece it together,
so, here's what he says,
00:24:24.36\00:24:27.30
here's his paraphrase,
00:24:27.33\00:24:29.06
Paul's argument in 1st
Corinthians 7 verses 1 to 2,
00:24:29.13\00:24:32.23
may thus be
paraphrased as follows,
00:24:32.27\00:24:34.34
"Regarding the things
about which you wrote to me
00:24:34.37\00:24:37.77
in complaining about those men
00:24:37.84\00:24:40.31
who continue to
visit prostitutes
00:24:40.34\00:24:42.54
or sleep with the
household slaves, etc.),
00:24:42.58\00:24:44.91
'it is good for a man
00:24:44.95\00:24:47.75
not to use a woman for
sexual self-gratification,'
00:24:47.78\00:24:52.25
but since
porneia is so ubiquitous,
00:24:52.29\00:24:56.06
and to keep from
falling into it yourselves,
00:24:56.09\00:24:59.09
each man should enjoy
00:24:59.13\00:25:00.50
regular sexual
relations with his own wife
00:25:00.53\00:25:03.00
and each woman should do
so with her own husband. "
00:25:03.03\00:25:07.54
So, in a sense...
what happens is...
00:25:07.57\00:25:11.17
Paul agrees with
these Corinthians
00:25:11.21\00:25:14.81
who are
complaining about the people
00:25:14.84\00:25:17.41
who like those
in chapter 6, maybe,
00:25:17.45\00:25:19.85
have been going
to the prostitutes,
00:25:19.88\00:25:22.25
have been using
their slaves for sex
00:25:22.28\00:25:24.59
and things like
that and Paul says,
00:25:24.65\00:25:26.89
"You know, you're right,
but, don't go too far with that"
00:25:26.92\00:25:31.56
you know, "don't
get the idea that
00:25:31.59\00:25:34.40
sex is just too powerful,
just don't have any sex at all,"
00:25:34.43\00:25:39.70
he says, "rather, there is a
temptation to sexual immorality"
00:25:39.73\00:25:44.97
so he's not agreeing
with them to the sense
00:25:45.01\00:25:47.84
to say that sex is bad,
00:25:47.88\00:25:49.21
he says, "but
because of the temptation
00:25:49.24\00:25:51.88
to have sexual immorality,
00:25:51.91\00:25:53.62
everybody should be
married, you should be married,
00:25:53.65\00:25:56.42
and you should have
regular sexual relations
00:25:56.45\00:25:59.22
with your wife" and
then notice, he says,
00:25:59.25\00:26:01.86
"and each woman
with her own husband. "
00:26:01.89\00:26:04.09
So he's starting this emphasis
00:26:04.13\00:26:06.70
on mutuality, that
he's been talking...
00:26:06.73\00:26:10.00
that we're going to
see as a good portion
00:26:10.03\00:26:13.27
of what he has to
talk about in this passage,
00:26:13.30\00:26:16.47
so, to go back and
answer the very first question,
00:26:16.50\00:26:19.97
it seems that Paul is quoting
the conservative Christians
00:26:20.01\00:26:24.75
in his church, who are shocked
00:26:24.78\00:26:27.15
by what the
libertines are doing,
00:26:27.22\00:26:29.52
he agrees with them about
the sin of touching a woman
00:26:29.55\00:26:35.39
but he differentiates
himself from those
00:26:35.42\00:26:39.56
who think sex is so
powerful, it's just so strong,
00:26:39.59\00:26:43.93
it's bad... that you should
leave it aside all together,
00:26:43.97\00:26:48.14
so, he's
carefully... we can say,
00:26:48.17\00:26:51.11
he's carefully winding his
way in between a group of people
00:26:51.14\00:26:55.28
who are free-sex people,
00:26:55.31\00:26:57.78
who are just going anywhere,
getting sex any place they want,
00:26:57.81\00:27:00.32
and another group of people
who are so negative on sex
00:27:00.38\00:27:05.79
that they think that
you shouldn't use it at all,
00:27:05.82\00:27:09.02
and Paul is somewhere
in between those two...
00:27:09.06\00:27:12.43
saying that... well,
that's bad certainly,
00:27:12.46\00:27:14.26
but what you're saying
isn't what we should do either,
00:27:14.30\00:27:17.57
you should also...
00:27:17.63\00:27:18.97
you should all have
this mutual relationships
00:27:19.00\00:27:21.04
of love and that involves sexual
expression within marriage.
00:27:21.07\00:27:24.81
So, he's saying here,
00:27:24.87\00:27:27.58
I mean, you normally
think Paul is just so strong
00:27:27.61\00:27:30.28
and then you're facing forward
00:27:30.31\00:27:33.75
but here... he's...
he's walking a thin line.
00:27:33.78\00:27:37.59
Yes, he's walking a thin line.
00:27:37.62\00:27:39.32
He's trying to
juggle both balls.
00:27:39.35\00:27:41.46
And he's done it
in a very nice way.
00:27:41.52\00:27:43.59
Yeah, well once again,
00:27:43.63\00:27:46.49
these 30 minutes
go by in a hurry...
00:27:46.53\00:27:48.83
It does...
00:27:48.86\00:27:50.20
But what a topic! you know,
00:27:50.23\00:27:51.57
I've wondered for a long
time on that 1st Corinthians 7:1
00:27:51.60\00:27:55.17
and so you
certainly helped explain it.
00:27:55.20\00:27:57.74
Praise God.
00:27:57.77\00:27:59.11
I just want to thank you so
much for being with us again,
00:27:59.14\00:28:01.18
we just love each
and every one of you,
00:28:01.21\00:28:03.98
thank you for
sharing this time with us,
00:28:04.01\00:28:06.72
God bless you,
see you next time.
00:28:06.78\00:28:09.12